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Two longtime music pros (Sensei & Fatboi) go deep on what makes music great. A podcast for music producers, artists, and fans.
Fatboi is a Multi-platinum, Grammy nominated, award winning producer whose credits include: Camoflauge, YoungBoy Never Broke Again, Gucci Mane, Young Jeezy, Rocko, Shawty Redd, Flo Rida, Bow Wow, Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, Juvenile, Yung Joc, Gorilla Zoe, OJ Da Juiceman, 8Ball & MJG, Jeremih, 2 Chainz, Nicki Minaj, Bobby V, Ludacris and Yo Gotti, Monica, Zay Smith, TK Kravitz, Future.
Sensei Hollywood (a.k.a. Dan Marshall) formerly an instructor and chair of the Audio Production program at the Art Institute of Atlanta, is an accomplished musician, producer, engineer who's performed on and engineered multi--platinum records with Big Boi, Outkast, Killer Mike, Chamillionaire, Carlos Santana, Mary J. Blige, Snoop Dogg, Ron Isley, Lil Wayne, Trillville, Monica, and more...
Sensei (01:27)
it's levels to this. I am Sensei, I've got my partner Fatboi right here. How you doing Fatboi?
Fatboi (01:33)
Man, I'm great.
Sensei (01:34)
I wanted to talk today funk that breaks the biggest rule of funk. So educate us, Mr. Fatboi. What is the number one rule of funk?
Fatboi (01:50)
I would say the number one rule of funk is the one.
Sensei (01:53)
you and James Brown would say, gotta hit it on the one.
Fatboi (01:57)
The one.
Sensei (02:16)
what I have done, I have located three examples of where it's not on the one or you can't find the one until late into the song. Songs that hide the one.
Fatboi (02:28)
Okay. ⁓
shooting in the church early.
Sensei (02:32)
You
The number one for me is 777-9311, with Morris Day and the Time
Fatboi (02:40)
Yep, that's one.
it's funny, but that beat, doesn't drop on the one, but you still feel the one.
Sensei (02:53)
Well, here's the thing.
Fatboi (02:53)
I still feel the one
on 777-9311. I still feel it.
Sensei (02:56)
Yeah, so
it's like it bounces off the one. It's like you threw a tennis ball at the one and when it came back to you on the E of one, one E and A when it comes back to you and hits you in the hand on the E is where you feel it. So let's listen to a little bit. Let me see if I can successfully do this. It's like pickleball. Yeah. All right.
Fatboi (03:00)
Yeah, yeah, it's a bounce off the one. Yeah.
⁓ Yeah, yeah, it's like pickle, pickle ball.
Sensei (03:23)
All right. Let's listen to a little bit of it.
Fatboi (03:22)
I do.
Jesse Johnson.
Sensei (03:34)
Uh
Fatboi (03:37)
Slim Jelly Bean.
Sensei (03:41)
Back in the era of pink guitars, man. I had one of those. Someone stole it.
Fatboi (03:47)
You know what's funny?
Sensei (03:49)
Yo.
Fatboi (03:51)
He's playing the drums, but that drum pattern is from the Linn drum machine.
Sensei (03:58)
⁓ that's probably why it's off, but yet like no human drummer would think. Let me play on the E of one.
Fatboi (04:03)
Yeah, that's the Linn drum machine.
And then he's perfect every time he does the 16th or the 32nd.
Sensei (04:21)
So it's like a silent one. It's a silent one, like ⁓ everyone is thinking the one, but no one's playing anything on it.
Fatboi (04:25)
It's a silent one.
DO YOU THINK?
Do you think that they purposefully went against the James Brown on the one rule? Do you think that was something that they consciously thought about? Hey, let's not do it on the one.
Sensei (04:58)
I mean, it's an act of temerity to go against the Godfather of the soul, but yet, and still be funky. it, as a player, that's been ingrained in me since jump, since I started playing music, playing funky, you gotta hit the one, right? That's like the biggest commandment of funk. So it's almost sacrilegious, but they somehow pull it off.
Fatboi (05:25)
He pulled it off. That's probably the genius of Prince intertwined with the genius of Jimmy Johnson and Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.
Sensei (05:44)
Now this is a very Prince, it's a very Prince move, right? So he produced this, wrote this.
Fatboi (05:45)
The collection.
Well,
they were Prince's group. So Prince brought them a lot of the ideas, the demos and stuff like that, ⁓ which listening to the Lindrum in this, I would think that the idea for this record came from Prince because it's a Lindrum record.
Sensei (05:54)
Okay.
Whoops.
Mm.
Well, certainly the ethos of like nothing is sacred, throw out all the rules. We were talking about this before about another rule that Prince broke when he took the bass out of When Doves Cry That, that was a controversy in the eighties. ⁓ People were mad about leaving the bass out. Now think about this here. We've got a funk song. You can't do that. Now how are you going to have a funk song?
Fatboi (06:13)
Mm-mm.
Right.
Yeah, almost started a war.
You can't do that!
with no bass.
Sensei (06:40)
that hits on the
E of one. no, but, seriously, this is, this is like my prime example. It literally breaks the,
first rule of funk gotta hit on the one and these guys the Time and I would believe Prince or at least his ethos as Embodied in the Time. We're like throwing out the rules man. Somehow this still works
Fatboi (06:57)
Ahem.
Yeah, Prince was...
challenging like that, whatever the so-called rule is, I'm gonna show you that I can do it. I can go around the rule and still catch all those elements that said rule is supposed to embody.
Sensei (07:25)
Rules don't apply to me, I'm Prince.
Fatboi (07:28)
Rules don't
apply to me. I remember as a kid,
hearing that record for the first time.
And I liked it because it sounded different. It was weird sounding.
Sensei (07:38)
There is a left turn kinda happening right from jump. But like I said, man, I was jogging, listened to this the other day, and it feels to me like you threw a tennis ball against the wall and you caught it. Just a second later.
Fatboi (07:43)
Yeah,
Yeah.
Yeah, you know,
I think.
Jimmy Johnson, since he's a bass player?
think Jimmy Johnson, it sounds like that song was bass driven and it was built around the bass.
Sensei (08:04)
Mmm.
Okay.
Right, right, right.
Fatboi (08:13)
Because I mean, they started it that way. You know what saying? I don't think that record starts from the drum. I don't think that because the drummer, like you said, the drummer isn't going to think to just do that.
Sensei (08:24)
Well, you saying like, because it was a Linn Drum pattern, maybe it's just a matter of somebody turned off the little beat number on the one and hit the one on the E and they're like, ⁓ that's okay. Let's roll that. Why not? You know, like that's an idea of like how the equipment or the instrument affects the song, you know, sometimes just, what does that button do? okay. Now we've got something funky going on.
Fatboi (08:33)
Yeah, they didn't hit it.
Yeah.
Right. And ⁓ there's other Prince records, ⁓ maybe not any of his big records, but he does have other records where the beat doesn't start on the one. So it was kind of a staple in Prince's ⁓ wheelhouse in his toolbox. So... ⁓
I think, and Jimmy Johnson was a guy that Prince went to for ideas, especially pertaining to the time. So it wouldn't. ⁓
Sensei (09:18)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fatboi (09:23)
It wouldn't surprise me if Prince and Jimmy were literally just like what you got. And he took that to Prince and Prince started kind of building around it a little bit. Because even the guitar licks sound like Prince licks.
Sensei (09:32)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, yeah, at the time, you know, it was sort of like an extension or a mirror reflection of Prince, right?
Fatboi (09:42)
Yeah.
Yeah,
the time was.
print stuff that Prince wouldn't do on a Prince album. He could be that extension of himself where, okay, this isn't a Prince record, but it's a time record. It's something that I would do. If I did this record, I will put it on one of my B-sides. So instead of making this a Prince B-side,
Here's the record, and I'm pretty sure Prince wrote that record too.
Sensei (10:11)
And for the kids who don't know, maybe it's a good time to go watch Purple Rain, where he actually literally cast Morse Day as his evil twin rival alternate universe. Yes.
Fatboi (10:22)
And that's kind of what they were in real life. It's
kind of what they were in real life. ⁓
Sensei (10:27)
That was a movie phenomenon when I was a teenager. That was everywhere, Purple Ring. Once.
Fatboi (10:30)
Yeah, it was.
You a teenager when Purple Rain came
out?
Sensei (10:37)
Bro, I am so old.
Fatboi (10:40)
But that ain't that bad.
Sensei (10:41)
man, well, if you're lucky, you get to...
Fatboi (10:43)
Whoa, whoa,
purple rain came out in what like 82?
Sensei (10:46)
No, it out like, ⁓ 84.
Fatboi (10:49)
You were a teenager in 83, 84?
Sensei (10:51)
Bro, I was 13, 14 years old. Damn Dan, I didn't know you were that old.
Fatboi (10:57)
Well, I mean, I'm not too far behind you, but...
Sensei (10:59)
Yes, they delivered
the mail on horseback and I had a dial-up modem and...
Fatboi (11:09)
Man, okay, 80, okay. Cause a thriller came out in what, 85, 82?
Sensei (11:14)
82. ⁓
I meant to tell you not that I don't want to derail the funk of Breaks the Rules, but I went and saw Toto last night speaking of 80s greatest hits with Steve Lukather and your guy Greg Phillinganes on keys. Yeah, he was killing it. And all of them were like singing and playing and they were like top form. They've never sounded better. So we got to talk.
Fatboi (11:30)
Greg Phillinganes was there?
Wow, I know they
did human nature, right? What? Usually Toto does human nature.
Sensei (11:42)
They did not do human nature. ⁓
Well, I mean, they did a couple like hold the line and they closed with Africa. ⁓ I don't I don't. Yeah, they didn't do human nature last night. So. But ⁓ that was a good show.
Fatboi (11:54)
Okay. I've seen
several videos where Toto did human nature.
Sensei (12:01)
Man, they have such a catalog though. I mean, those guys are like just amazing. They're like the studio musicians. They're like the dog caught the car. They somehow became like rock stars, superstars.
Fatboi (12:03)
Yeah, that's true too.
Yep. Studio musicians
that are rock stars at the same time.
Sensei (12:16)
that that right.
But you know, parts of it, it's not so it was like, you know, soundtrack kind of cheesy songs or whatever. But like the way they execute it, it's almost like, yeah. But like the way they executed last night, was like watching like a classical orchestra concert, you know, just like they elevate the art form of even like the cheesy 80s soundtrack songs to a higher level. You're like, oh, man, I'm watching some art here. You know.
Fatboi (12:26)
Well, they were songwriters.
What separated them is, or what got them over that hump is their songwriters, their musicians that are songwriters with the ability to produce. And that's what everybody can do. You can be a songwriter, but you don't have that producing attribute.
Sensei (12:58)
Yes. Yes.
And it shows in their playing
too, because all those guys can shred.
Fatboi (13:09)
Yeah. They dumb it down for what the song needs. Not in the air, well not dumbed down. Whatever the song wants, they do that.
Sensei (13:13)
Not even dumb it down, but they play for they play for the song at all times.
But I was just saying, because like Steve Lukather, he plays like somewhere between like a shredder, Jeff Beck and a tastier Joe Satriani, you when he does the guitar solo, it's just spot on. Then he's got those clean chorusy sounds we were always talking about. ⁓ And Greg Phillinganes I was like, man, I never I didn't know that guy could sing.
Fatboi (13:40)
Yeah.
Sensei (13:40)
He
did a couple numbers and lots of backup harmonies. was like, man.
Fatboi (13:44)
Well, I've never met a keyboard player that couldn't sing. Have you? A piano player. Okay, wow. Yeah, that's kind of rare. Well, from my background, growing up, the keyboard player was always, usually came out of a church somewhere so he could sing.
Sensei (13:48)
Hmm. Yeah, one or two. I think I was in a band with one.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah, it's just that's that's like the boot camp for a lot of musicians
Fatboi (14:11)
Yeah,
and he might not be the greatest singer in the world. Like, you're not going to put him out front, but he can sing. And he knows all the harmonies so he can give everybody their parts and all that. So, you know, from...
Sensei (14:18)
Right, right, right, because he's in there every weekend, working it out. Yeah, yeah.
man. So some of these like,
like church musician pits, the MD will be calling out changes like, like crazy, like up a half step and everyone just jumps up a half step, like on a seconds notice or go to the two, go to the six, know,
Fatboi (14:35)
Yeah.
Yep. And they know. They know.
I mean, you know, some of those church, organists or, ⁓ keyboard players or, know, that, ran the choir. A lot of them were drill sergeants. Yeah, they, they, you know, cause it had to be right. Cause come Sunday, not one note. And you could, I mean, if you, if you, if you understand.
Sensei (15:01)
It had to be, right?
Fatboi (15:11)
the musicianship, if one person hit a bad note or they didn't change, you see the look from the, from the organ. He, he, he gives him a look or he might even put his hand in the air to let you know, caught that. You know, get your shit together. You're to have me losing my religion in church on Sunday. So, you know, ⁓ kind of like James Brown, whenever somebody messed up in the band, he would count how much money that he was docking them.
Sensei (15:37)
Aww man.
Fatboi (15:38)
And it made it, he just made it look like he was doing something, you know, on some timing. It's one famous one. ⁓ And it might've been the funky drummer. Funky drummer might've missed a, it was either funky drummer or dabo. Stubblefield or dabo missed an intro or something.
Sensei (15:41)
Hit me two times! Hit me five times!
Say it ain't
so!
Fatboi (16:04)
and James docked him like, I think like $50. He counted off one, two, three, four, five. It's famous and people see the video all the time, but they have no idea he's actually docking whoever missed that intro.
Sensei (16:11)
haha
There's a video of Michael
Jackson doing that in the middle of a song. Someone missed a cue for the outro, so he has to keep riffing on the chorus. He's like, Bruce, job gone. I gotta lift that up, because it was the exact same thing, right? He's the one to break character, but he's like, I gotta get out the intro. Bruce, your job's gone.
Fatboi (16:43)
Hey, it's serious, man, you know, cause James Brown just didn't want to be.
the front man, you know, the star of show, he also had a big interest in also being the conductor. Yeah. So he, he, that, that was his thing because Big Band, Big Band was a thing when he came, still a thing when he came in. So that whole Big Band, Frank Sinatra, you know, conducting the band, that was a big thing for him, except he brought the extra...
Sensei (16:55)
The musical director, yeah, exactly.
Fatboi (17:13)
⁓ added entertainment of dancing and all that to the equation, but he was still the conductor, the band leader.
Sensei (17:21)
Well, that's why you had to have these rules, right? You can't be a drill sergeant unless you've got clear, precise rules, lines of communication. then, but then, you know, I mean, he had the SEAL Team Six of funk.
Fatboi (17:26)
You're dead real sergeant
What am I thinking about?
Sensei (17:37)
Well, tell you what, think about that, but while you're thinking about that, tell me where you think the one is in this song.
Fatboi (17:39)
Thank
Shallons. Luther.
Sensei (17:52)
Let me know when you get it.
Fatboi (17:52)
One,
one, one, one, one, one, one, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Sensei (17:59)
I would never in a million years think that was the one.
Well, you know the song.
Fatboi (18:20)
I do know the song.
Sensei (18:20)
Ha!
One, two, three.
Fatboi (18:24)
One, one, one, one. See, it's like what I was talking about on the time record. You can still feel the one.
Sensei (18:26)
That intro was throwing me off.
Here, let me turn it down a little bit here.
Fatboi (18:43)
And but I will say I will say this, Dan.
I do have the proclivity to catch the one. I was blessed with that. A lot of people can't, you know, when it's off like that before you hear the drums, but for some reason I've always been able to locate the one even when it doesn't come on the one. It's just a feeling to me and I feel where the one should be.
Sensei (18:54)
Well, you're- you're- you're-
Well, that's a discipline of being a DJ, right? Trying to put these records together, but I think you're feeling the hole where the one wants to be. I'm about that up because I seriously was lost where that one is, but I'm just a guitar player, so what do I know? ⁓
Fatboi (19:17)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
One, one, one, one. All right, so this is how you locate the one.
Sensei (19:44)
Okay.
Fatboi (19:46)
So if I get a snare or a snap, that's my bass. Right. One. One. One. One. So I listen to something else that's giving me an indicator or a marker. And in this instance, it's the snap.
Sensei (19:53)
You know that's the two and the four.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah,
Okay, okay, yeah, I'm feeling that now. That little whop-a-bop-a-bop-a-da-da was throwing me off. That's the red herring there.
Fatboi (20:15)
Yeah, it throws you off. Yeah, it throws you off. So
when it first came on, ⁓ if I'm listening to, because what stands out is that it stands out to you, because it's the most prevalent part. So I scale it back and listen to where, okay, where is the actual rhythm holding in place at? It's the snaps.
Sensei (20:35)
Hmm.
⁓ Okay, now I feel that now.
Fatboi (20:44)
And you know, and
you know, the snaps are two and four. So I can, I can get the one in the three wrong, but.
Sensei (20:47)
Right.
But
you know where the two and the four want to be.
Fatboi (20:57)
So the two and the four are there. So now it comes down to where it feels like the one should be.
Sensei (21:03)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. The whole, where the one wants her to be, like.
Fatboi (21:05)
Yeah, the
whole where the one should be. and it's going to be hard for me to reverse the one and the three.
Sensei (21:15)
Hmm No, so and then that whole up in the air feeling the whole idea is to create chaos everyone's just kind of like what what and then when the beat actually drops and was like, yeah, and And the crowd goes wild, right?
Fatboi (21:31)
Yeah. And it also has to make sense. So it got to make sense to me in my head too. So when I hear it, once I locate these markers, now it goes to, okay, what makes sense? What sounds sensible?
Sensei (21:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, you can also hear maybe once you hear the whole thing, how the producer muted the tracks for the intro to took it like a reductivist kind of thing, or took those elements out for the intro. So it's floating and kind of chaos. But then it all makes sense once that beat everything, all the elements kick in.
Fatboi (22:08)
comes back in and yeah, it all falls into place. But yeah, that's never really been a, that's never really been a, for some reason I've always been able to locate the one.
Sensei (22:21)
Well, I mean, that's why you're a DJ Fatboi and produce those records.
Fatboi (22:25)
So,
yeah, it's kinda, even when somebody, and you're absolutely right, because DJing, ⁓ there are some records that don't start on the one, it might start on the three.
and
Sensei (22:39)
Or
the and of four or something crazy like that, yeah.
Fatboi (22:41)
Yeah. And, and,
and when I'm mixing, I like all my blends to be on time. So when I make the transition, it's a smooth transition. So if the first bar comes out one, two, three, four, one, two, and it starts like that, I counted out the whole bar. Like, so I let a whole bar go by start on the two on the second bar. And you know, so I was able to
find it like that, my partner, E-Man, he'll still be on time, but he'll just bring it in typically where, you know, you would normally count the one, which always sounds weird to me, but as a producer, it got to make sense to me in my brain. So once I start putting that together, you know, I look for the indicators, what's the markers?
Sensei (23:30)
Hmm. It's like, it's clues for the mystery of where the one wants to be.
Fatboi (23:30)
Cause there's always going to be a hint in there. And the hint in this was the snaps.
Yeah.
Yeah. So that one, that one, it threw me for a second. Yeah.
Sensei (23:41)
That was more straightforward for you.
I saw some other guys talking about this one, other guys, I even pulled it up and they were like lost on that one. you know, they were trying to be sneaky.
Fatboi (23:52)
because
it's right in their face and they're not paying attention to the snaps. So you think those snaps are off? Now, if they put the snaps on one and three, you got a problem. It's just chaos. It's just chaos.
Sensei (23:56)
The snaps were there all along.
That's just chaos, man. You can't do that. I got one more
for you. And this one was tricky for me because you had me working on a remix of this the other day. ⁓ Tell me something good. And this one. I think I did it wrong. I was just hoping you would straighten it out because I think I put the bass on the one instead of the two, but.
Help me figure this one out. Cause I think we've tabled this for, I don't know what happened there, but, ⁓ this is one where the, feel like the baseline and the keyboards just do not agree. ⁓ you'll get, see if I get it playing here. Here we go.
Fatboi (24:43)
Okay. Okay.
One.
One.
Sensei (24:52)
man, I
fucked this up.
Fatboi (24:55)
One.
One.
Sensei (25:00)
So it feels like it's on the Andaluan.
Fatboi (25:02)
One.
One. Yeah, so it's coming. It's doing what you said. In this case, it's a basketball.
Sensei (25:14)
A basketball, okay.
Fatboi (25:15)
Yeah,
so the bounce is like, So think in terms of a basketball.
Sensei (25:19)
Okay, let me turn it down here a little bit here.
It's like a slow dribble.
Fatboi (25:27)
Yeah. So every time, every time he dribbles to the ground, that's the one and the three one or actually, actually he's letting it bounce back up. So he's hitting it on every beat on the ground.
Sensei (25:33)
Okay
Fatboi (25:45)
three, four, one, two, three, four, two, three, four. Yeah, so that, ⁓
⁓ yeah, that, that, that, that doesn't throw me off either. Yeah, it settles on the hook, right.
Sensei (25:59)
And this settles right here, it settles on that hook.
I'm gonna say that again, because that one has been bugging me for like a minute. Let's take it from the jump here.
Fatboi (26:13)
4, 1, 2, now...
Sensei (26:16)
So I'm feeling that low
note as the one that's what throwing me off
Fatboi (26:20)
One. Hold on.
Sensei (26:23)
I'm counting this here. One, two, three.
Fatboi (26:26)
All right,
so what happens is...
Sensei (26:31)
or
Fatboi (26:32)
It skips when it actually starts when she starts singing.
Sensei (26:36)
Mmm.
Fatboi (26:41)
Started from the beginning again.
Sensei (26:43)
yeah, yeah, yeah, here we go. Wait, wait, wait.
So here we go. All right, here's from the beginning.
Fatboi (27:10)
Start it again.
Yeah, so...
Sensei (27:15)
So I want the one to be where that low note is on the keyboard. I don't know, that's what's throwing me off.
Fatboi (27:18)
That's not the one. Yeah.
Sensei (27:24)
And feels like the one until the hook comes in.
Fatboi (27:30)
One
One.
One.
One, two, three, four, one. Yeah, so ⁓ what it's doing, it's starting on the first eight. ⁓
Sensei (27:54)
⁓ so those are upbeats, they're not downbeats.
Fatboi (27:57)
It's starting
on the upbeat, right?
It's starting on the upbeat. So, my version starts on the one.
Sensei (28:09)
Yeah, yeah, I think that was what from it.
Fatboi (28:11)
Yeah, it starts on the one.
Sensei (28:14)
And then when it comes in with the hook, we're back to normal world. We can all feel that groove there.
Fatboi (28:18)
Yup. It smooths out right
there. Yeah. It is, it's hard to, it's hard to throw me off the one, man.
Sensei (28:25)
3, 4.
Rufus tried real hard. They succeeded with me.
Fatboi (28:34)
Well, I mean, really it gets anybody because ⁓ it starts on the upbeat, but the upbeat sounds like the one.
Sensei (28:47)
three four one two three four one two three four one two three four one two three four the upbeat does sound like the beat or vice versa
It's backwards. One, two, three, four. Let's see if I get it. Three.
Fatboi (29:14)
Stevie Wonder, man. Stevie Wonder.
Sensei (29:20)
that's so funky, that talk box so.
I I messed it up there. But yeah, the upbeat is the one and the one is the upbeat.
two, three, four, one, two. Woo!
We gotta do one on the Talk Box one of these days.
Fatboi (29:50)
Yeah, well I got the talk box down here. Yeah, I got a talk box.
Sensei (29:53)
you do? Man,
I have one for the guitar. I gave it away because I just didn't like putting that thing in my mouth. was like, how do you people do this? Man, I'm like gagging. I'm drooling all over myself. I can't do that. You think I'd be a natural for it?
Fatboi (30:00)
Haha!
Yeah,
I've only used it one time since I've had it.
Sensei (30:15)
I might have to like re I have to take another ⁓ shot at it because it's too funky not to use.
Yeah, but this one's been bugging me for a while. So that's the key to it. It's the upbeat actually feels like the one one feels like the upbeat.
Fatboi (30:33)
Yep. It's
the reverse.
Sensei (30:38)
That's sneaky Pete's man.
Fatboi (30:39)
Sneaky.
Sensei (30:41)
Alright, let me turn that one off here. Alright, get to the end. Knock your pride aside and realize that you can't count. Not like Rufus. Okay, I'm pause that one.
Fatboi (30:59)
You know, the only song that I've ever had a problem catching the one or the beginning of the record until it actually starts is Michael Jackson, Baby Be Mine. That drum fill in the beginning, I can't count it off.
Sensei (30:59)
man.
We gotta look that up now. Now that I've cracked the code on how to do this here. Let me see
Fatboi (31:23)
Well, maybe I can. Maybe I can. The same guy that played on Billie Jean. ⁓
Sensei (31:33)
Who's doing the drums on that? Do you know?
Is that
guy JD, whatever? I'm thinking.
let's hear that again.
Fatboi (31:56)
That's it. That intro, that intro feel, it always kind of weird to me, but, but it is dope as hell, but.
Sensei (31:57)
The next time...
It must start on the upbeat.
It's like a weird triplet at the end or something.
It's almost like he, threw the Tom's down the stairs and they just rolled in rhythm.
yeah, yeah.
Fatboi (32:37)
And I'm pretty sure Ndugu did that. That was him. That was all him. Quincy didn't tell him to do that. He just did that.
Sensei (32:39)
Mmm.
How could you? ⁓
How could even Quincy tell that? That's just the magic being tuned in from the radio station in your head.
Fatboi (32:47)
You can't call that.
but the rest of, but Greg feeling gains in the rest of the players, how are they catching that one so on point? ⁓ Well, they counted it in though.
Sensei (33:04)
I guess if I had to guess,
yeah, but like maybe they're always rolling it in their heads and it's the some version of the exercise where you take the one away, but you leave the space for it. So it's not obvious, but it's all shared internal beat, know, that they're all masters of the groove like that. Part of that is knowing where it wants to be, but still having the
Restraint not to play on it.
Fatboi (33:32)
But why that film, intro film? Why that? You know, why not? You know?
Sensei (33:42)
Well, there's a place for the blatantly obvious, here we go, we're going on the one and there's a place for that. And there's a place for like, huh, it's like that, that one was like, ⁓ you know, it's still bothering you 40 years later. So that's the genius of it. There's elements that are so unique and they only exist on a record like that, you know?
Fatboi (33:48)
the
Yeah, it's, for every, coincidentally, the only song on the Thriller album that wasn't a single and it still was single worthy. Cause that's one of my favorite songs on that album.
Sensei (34:14)
I they just had too many hits. They wanted to share some money with the other people in the industry. We're being too successful. Let's just give someone else a chance.
Fatboi (34:26)
It saved the music industry because what was the record store during the 80s that was closing? Was it Turtles?
Sensei (34:32)
Oh man, yeah turtles. Well, is there another one too with the stamps? See, am so we were talking about all I remember you had to save the stamps and a little book and you'd get like a Discount or free record every so often when you filled your book of turtle stamps up
Fatboi (34:34)
Yeah, it's another one.
Yeah.
So it was something else before. Is it record bar? Let me see. I don't remember record bar.
Sensei (34:49)
Record Bar was another big one in the 80s. Do you remember Record Bar?
you record bar used to be right down from the chess king in the mall.
Fatboi (35:02)
see big record stores in the 80s. Let's see what do we tower.
Sensei (35:10)
Tower.
Fatboi (35:11)
Towers, was towers that were closing down left and right. And Thriller saved the music industry.
Sensei (35:15)
Okay.
funny how the music industry always seems to die and yet it comes back every so often, you know.
Fatboi (35:25)
It's
dying to me right now, but it's making billions of dollars.
Sensei (35:29)
Like a zombie, will resurrect and try to eat someone's brains a different way, you know? ⁓
Fatboi (35:37)
Man, this little tower,
was Sam Goody Tower Records, Virgin Megastores.
Sensei (35:43)
Well, by me and Florida, we had record bar.
Fatboi (35:45)
record bar.
Sensei (35:47)
Unless I'm like totally hallucinating that, which is possible. I've been, I'm old. I've been hit in the head a few times.
Fatboi (35:53)
Sam Goody, Tower, Virgin, Megastore. I remember, do I remember Sam Goody as a kid? I remember Tower for sure, I remember Tower.
Sensei (35:59)
Yeah, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. Retail
music. OK. I always worry about the Mandela effect. You know, where they say your memories or something you were invented. Yeah. Record bar existed primarily southeastern United States from the 60s through the late 80s. Yeah. Eventually sold to blockbuster music.
Fatboi (36:16)
Blockbuster. So that, okay, Blockbuster came and that's what, okay. All right.
Sensei (36:18)
So it was the predecessor to blockbuster music and then.
Yeah. So
I'm so old. I remember one movie night, it you went to a store and looked at empty boxes and argued about which one to rent for 90 minutes and then took something else home.
Fatboi (36:32)
But see, Blockbuster
did that. I remember Blockbuster. I remember Blockbuster and Blockbuster did that same thing. You go in and you could rent the blank cases. You take the blank cases up there and then they go, yeah, yeah.
Sensei (36:45)
shelves full of blank cases and they go and give the kid the thing
and then they got so mad at you if you didn't rewind your tape and they charge you fees and then they had these like printouts like 10 feet long for your receipt you know
Fatboi (37:01)
And then they had the door in the back that you couldn't go in unless you were an adult. And that was the, you know, that was the adult room. So, and now, you know, I was just a kid, so I could never go in that room, but it's like, something tells me I want to go back in that room. There's something interesting in that room because why do they give them a key to go in that room? What's in that room?
Sensei (37:17)
It was...
⁓ It
was overblown, but don't ask me why I know Okay.
It wasn't that good. ⁓
Fatboi (37:29)
man. ⁓
Sensei (37:31)
But, man, so there we got it. We got three examples of funk that breaks the rules or bends the rules or breaks your perception about where the one wants to be. And that's kind of why, to me, they're still ⁓ living in our consciousness today, because they're branching out of expectations.
Fatboi (37:52)
I wish.
Today's artists would do stuff like that. Like everything is so ABC one, two, three in today's time. And I would blame that on because everybody is creating records in a DAW. And because of that, there's no tempo changes. ⁓ Nobody starts on the three. I will still start on the three.
Sensei (38:14)
Well, there can be tempo changes, but you have to actually make one. have to, yeah, you have to have the will to say, you know what? It should be faster on the hook. But it's too easy to fall into that trap of just, you start with a template, you work within that template. And sometimes, know, limitations are good, but sometimes limitations are just limitations. And you need to break out of those walls sometimes,
Fatboi (38:20)
Yeah, you gotta manipulate it. ⁓
Yeah.
Beastie Boys!
is the only rap group.
that I can recall to change the tempo mid song and then go back to the original tempo. She, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
But it makes sense for them because they're rockers that turned hip hop and then went back to rock.
Sensei (39:03)
Talk
about not staying within your limitations.
Fatboi (39:06)
Yeah.
So they, they, they, they brought, they brought a lot of rock elements into hip hop that stayed around.
Sensei (39:14)
Like a punk rock attitude, but working within the hip hop genre.
Fatboi (39:15)
Yeah.
And I think that's why they worked so well because of that. That's why they work.
Sensei (39:22)
Right, right. Well, I mean,
because they weren't faking their funk. They came from a different angle on it, but they weren't faking.
Fatboi (39:26)
They didn't fake.
They were still being their authentic selves. Which is why they did so well, you know, in the black community. The black community loved the Beastie Boys too, because that shit was just jammin'. It was jammin', but they weren't white guys trying to be black guys. They were just their authentic selves doing what they did.
Sensei (39:36)
Even us.
Right.
I think, right, exactly.
And there's nothing funkier than that.
Fatboi (39:59)
⁓
I mean, Outkast took off with that same, know, when they were trying to sound like New York, New York wasn't buying it. But when they realized, when somebody in New York told them, hey, y'all, why y'all sound like us? Like sound like you. And after that, Outkast was born because they started sounding like their authentic selves, that Southern.
not trying to stop that Southern drawl, let them words come out. You know, so, you know, we talk like this. We talk like this. We don't talk like this. We don't talk like this. You know what mean?
Sensei (40:28)
Yeah, yeah.
People take that for granted. It's taken for
granted how much of a shift that was.
Fatboi (40:42)
Yup. Because,
and also it gives you a leg up because you can rhyme words that don't really rhyme. Like Ice Cube rhyming, that's a Trif-Ho, AK-47, Assault, Rifle. Rifle don't rhyme with Ho.
Sensei (41:00)
It does now.
Fatboi (41:03)
But you know, when you take account the dialect of where you're from, you can make words that don't normally, because New York was always proper. So they always said words that actually rhymed with each other. And that was the allure of it. When the South and the West Coast started getting their hands on hip hop, hey, we gonna make some, but it sounded good.
Sensei (41:16)
Right, right, right.
Fatboi (41:25)
the way we did it in the South, the way the West Coast did it, it sounded good, even though those rhymes didn't work. Those words didn't rhyme with each other.
Sensei (41:25)
Right, right, right.
They don't rhyme on paper,
but they rhyme in your ear.
Fatboi (41:39)
Yeah, yeah. And if it sounds good, if it feels good, it is good. Bottom line, bottom line. Which going back to the one, if it sounds good, if it feels good.
Sensei (41:44)
That's what it is.
Back to the one. Is the one the law?
But if it's, maybe the law is, if it sounds good, it is good. Let's just leave it there.
Fatboi (41:56)
And that's where I think that sums that up to a T. It's like, if it sounds good, if it feels good, it is good. Even though that rule is in place, you you find yourself back to the one eventually, but.
Sensei (42:10)
come around the hook will drop and you'll be ⁓ okay.
Fatboi (42:14)
But every now and then, hey, let's throw them off for a spin. Let's see if they know how to dance to this.
Sensei (42:20)
Mmm, a sink or swim.
Fatboi (42:22)
Sink or swim. ⁓ by all accounts, what you played, the video that you played was from Soul Train and they danced to it.
If you couldn't dance to something on Soul Train, that wasn't it.
Sensei (42:31)
Proof is in the tape.
They'll let you know.
Fatboi (42:37)
Benny and the Jets, who's that? That's Elton. Elton performed Benny and the Jets on Soul Train. Benny and Jets had some soul to it though.
Sensei (42:39)
of Elton John.
Okay.
Well, Elton's got soul, man, you know?
Fatboi (42:50)
He does.
Elton got soul. He does.
Sensei (42:53)
And that's why he's stuck around for like 60 years, you know? Man, I gotta tell you, this is kind of a rough segue, but it's on my mind too, speaking of originals and people who are their authentic selves, but Ozzy Osbourne just died. And he was, here's the thing, man, like for me growing up as a white teenager in the suburbs, Ozzy Osbourne,
Fatboi (43:09)
Yeah, Ozzy, yup.
Sensei (43:18)
was like this icon. He was the first show I ever went to. Right. And you got to understand he was playing around with all this like kind of satanic imagery and the shout out to devil. He's got blood coming out his mouth and the thing. So it was kind of rebellious to be like wearing an Ozzy Osborne t-shirt to school. You know, they weren't really jazzed about that. But like, you know, when we went to the here in my experience with Ozzy.
Fatboi (43:28)
Yeah.
Sensei (43:44)
I just want I feel like I wanted to tell the story to somebody so bear me out so like you know there's this whole thing like oh Ozzy's the Prince of Darkness and they're kind of banned his records and censors lyrics and you know people look at you funny you got a t-shirt on so I'm like 13 this kid's mom drives us from Gainesville to Jacksonville to the Coliseum and drops us off right so we're probably 13 we're like dorks don't know what the hell's going on and there's people out front are like
praying for us. Like, don't go in. You're going to go to hell if you go in this door. Yeah, here's a here's a New Testament, you know, they're saying prayers or whatever. Jesus. OK, I what are we getting into? Right. Is it going to the Coliseum? And Motley Crue was opening and they were on their shout at the devil era. They're all wearing like the goth makeup and their hair to look post apocalyptic road warrior kind of vibes. And they were great then. I don't wanna get sidetracked.
But they you know, they play their set and dude stabs his guitar blood comes out of it. Like, ⁓ man, we're like this most evil concert ever. Right. So it's time for Ozzy's show. The lights come down and he's got this huge set, like a hundred foot stair case like, you know, oversized with these big banisters and these like figures are like 20 feet tall. They look like bats with their wings closed. Right. And they're like 20, 25 feet tall at the end of these banisters.
And the music starts it's Carmina Burana, which is this classical piece. you go, don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't build builds. Don't don't don't. Yeah. So it builds and builds and builds. So the smoke's rising. The lights are kind of coming up and you see this lone cloaked figure at the top of the stairs kind of doing it like this, like the bats. Right. And the bats are slowly opening their wings.
Fatboi (45:12)
Ahem.
Sensei (45:34)
Right. As the music builds and the lights are coming up and the cloaked figure still holding his cloak like this at the top. You know, it's Ozzy, but you're like, God, he's going to come out. He's going to be the Prince of Darkness. Music builds, music builds. The bats open their wings and turn their heads up and spit fire like 100 feet into the sky. Right. And the band kicks into I Don't Know, which is one of my favorite songs. Ozzy throws his cloak off. He's got like an orange
clown wig and like women's lingerie. He comes out kicks into I don't know. He does like two or three songs dressed like that. It's just crazy. And we're like Ozzy. ⁓ You know, we're expecting like the Prince of darkness. He's like Benny Hill, you know. So all that to say is Ozzy was a huge influence in my life. That show left a huge impression. Best show I've ever been to was my first show with Ozzy Osbourne.
Fatboi (46:16)
Right
Sensei (46:30)
who defied expectations. And honestly, man, he was just having fun the whole time, man. And I think that was borne out, man. He went out with a beautiful kind of celebration a couple of weeks ago. where he brought back a lot of folks that he's influenced and he got to say goodbye in a really nice way. And I just wanted to pour one out for a real one for Ozzy Osbourne, man.
Fatboi (46:53)
Yup.
Boom. Ozzy. Yeah.
Sensei (46:55)
You know that he
had a good run. I'm so sorry to see him go, but man that he affected a lot of people.
Fatboi (47:01)
You know what's crazy? Everybody in the hood knew who Ozzy Osbourne was.
Sensei (47:07)
And why is that, do you suppose?
Fatboi (47:09)
I think it was for what you're describing about him being the Prince of Darkness, know, the devil worship stuff, you know, ⁓ all that, that was especially in those times with all the religious nuts and, and all that. but you had some, you know, like my uncles, my mom's, ⁓ well, my oldest uncle, he would listen to, ⁓ certain
Rock records, you know what saying? So you had those guys in the hood that would just, they broaden their horizons and listen to different stuff. When the levy breaks, I found that album at my grandfather's house and it was my uncle's, you know what saying? Black Sabbath, like what's wrong with this stuff? So you had some of those people, mostly because of the Prince of Darkness type stuff.
But there were actual, it was some Black Sabbath fans in the hood that listened to him, but everybody knew who Ozzy was because of his, you know, and there was no social media back then. So if you, there's no social, so if you heard something about somebody, it stuck. It's like, if you heard Black Sabbath, you're like, that's the devil worship guy. Ozzy Osbourne, he bit a bat. That's the main reason why.
Sensei (48:10)
Right, right. People don't understand, yeah.
It was underground.
He
bit the bat because he was drunk and hungry and someone threw something up at him and he was just playing along with it. He didn't know it was real.
Fatboi (48:32)
It was a real bat and he bit the head off the bat.
Sensei (48:35)
He thought it was one of those rubber bats apparently, but who knows man? Like look, dude had a little bit of a drinking problem. Okay. Let's just be honest here. But you know, so he did some crazy stuff and maybe that, that, that had a lot to with it. You know, I don't want to glorify that,
Fatboi (48:42)
Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
Yeah,
I think that's when he went into another stratosphere in the hood. was already that folklore. Yes, man. It's hard to have that folklore about you in the social media era. You can't have that. There's no mystique about nobody.
Sensei (48:58)
That legend. That's what social media is ruining the effect of less is more.
Right.
Cause they can go right, they go right to your page and see what,
yeah, everything, everyone knows everything about everybody at all times. It's crazy.
Fatboi (49:19)
Imagine
if Chris Brown
was able to operate in the mystique of a superstar artist. Beyonce and J-Z still kind of move like that, people bring them up so much, you know, it kind of, but they still move with mystique.
Sensei (49:36)
Yeah, I can see that.
Fatboi (49:37)
Like, why, if you're already super, if you're already popular, you're considered a star, why do you have to be ever, like nobody's gonna forget about you, especially if you're making great music. Nobody's gonna forget about you. If you're making hits, they're not gonna forget about you. Why can't you move with that mystique? It makes your, it makes the folklore of you go.
farther. You go to icon status and see Chris Brown came out before social media so he knows how to handle being an icon. Beyonce came out before social media so she knows how to handle being an icon.
Sensei (50:04)
That makes you an icon.
Yes.
Fatboi (50:20)
J-Z knows how to handle being an icon. It's hard to get to icon status now because everybody sees your every move. And I don't know why the younger generation of creators don't understand, they think they need. So it's a tool. Yes, I get it as a tool, but you don't have to be in our faces every day because I used to say this.
Like even for me.
I didn't want to go to the club every night because if I went to the club every night, I'm just calming. I'm just like everybody else. You're a fixture.
Sensei (50:52)
It's just overexposure.
You're a fixture on the wall.
Fatboi (50:59)
I didn't want easy access to me and not giving easy access. made the, it made me myself, drummer boy, shawty red. Well, shawty red was in the club every night, but it gave a certain mystique about you when you weren't a commoner. Like you're not going to see certain people every single day.
Sensei (51:24)
It's the velvet rope principle, right? Like there's really only two business strategies. It's a, I'm a great value at a low price or I'm behind the velvet rope and you can't get here until that guy lets you in. If you're on the list, maybe.
Fatboi (51:40)
Yeah, and that's the way I looked at things. It's kinda like, you know, I'm not going unless I am a part of the attraction. I'm not the audience member. I'm the behind the rope guy. I only get in when you let me in.
Sensei (52:01)
Why would I want to be there otherwise?
Fatboi (52:03)
You know what saying? if I'm standing out here with everybody else, you can't differentiate me.
Sensei (52:10)
You can't claim your value.
Fatboi (52:12)
I'm every, I'm just like everybody else. So why do I want to be amongst the commoners? And that's no knock, but it's just, I make the music, you dance to the music. I don't want to be out there with the people dancing to the music. I'm giving you the music to dance to. You know what saying? So if, if, if I go out on the dance floor enough times, now I'm just, if I come to the club once every six months,
Sensei (52:14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fatboi (52:38)
there's an allure about me. But if I'm in the club eight days a week, I'm coming, even though I got hit records.
Sensei (52:40)
Right, right, right.
Right.
Well, how could you have time to go in the lab and think and create and make a hit song that doesn't hit on the one unless you take some time and come back inside and then give that back to the world? You can't just no one just, you know, you don't shit this out. Like you have to create. part of that creating is taking in new things and then synergizing, synthesizing and
coming up with new things and letting it evolve. You you have to, you gotta retract sometimes and then go out. You know, I don't, think social media has ruined that process for a lot of creative people.
Fatboi (53:14)
Right.
It has, it has. It's taken away, for me, it's taken away a lot of, it's taken away a lot of the elements that, I'm pretty, you know, I'm sure if we grew up in this era, we're going to, as kids, we're going to fall in love with what we're given. But growing up in the times that we grew up in, in our parents' time, in their parents' time.
Sensei (53:23)
Yeah.
Fatboi (53:49)
It just feels like any little movement in music meant more and it lasted longer. Like nobody's going to knock Michael Jackson off his perch because now music is too accessible. It's too available. It's not enough. No, nobody's making a nine song album with eight number one hits on it anymore. Nobody's putting in that full body of work.
and everybody's so ever present in our faces.
Sensei (54:14)
No one is hiring the
legendary producer, composer who then hires the legendary studio musicians who also contribute their creativity and becomes like a major motion picture on album. know, now it's like I got this sample, I'm a flip it and you're to watch me here on Twitch and that's a hit or it isn't, you know.
Fatboi (54:25)
Yep, this,
Everything is a movement.
Yeah.
I don't know, man. You know, maybe I'm starting to sound like the old guy in the room, but...
Sensei (54:44)
Me
too.
Fatboi (54:47)
I always, I just always felt like music, what made music so exciting for me is that I didn't see my favorite stars every fucking day. I didn't see you every day. So it made me, it made me excited. and don't let you, okay. It's a reason why,
cause you always going to get the groupies that's going to mob a star and all that, but you ain't going to get, you ain't going to never see it on the Michael Jackson level no more.
because anytime Michael Jackson made an appearance, you don't know when the next time you're gonna actually see him. Michael Jackson was so popular
he had to go out and discuss, cause he still wanted to go out and about, he had to put on disguises.
Sensei (55:26)
He was, yeah, he had to, for his religion, he had to go, like,
evangelize, but he had to, dress in disguise, right? Yeah, yeah.
Fatboi (55:31)
He had to put disguise on,
you know, so his brothers could go out in public, but he couldn't go out in public nowhere. Like Chris Brown. I think Chris Brown, Chris Brown to get mobbed, but he can still go out in public. He can still go out in public a little with one bodyguard. Maybe two. Michael Jackson had to have a wall around him.
And that's because whenever you're out and about, it was just super rare to run into.
Superstars. You still, you get that from athletes. It's still super rare to run into a LeBron James just anywhere. It's super rare to run into a Tom Brady just anywhere.
Some athletes are out and about, you know, but they become common. You know, the superstar status, we can still see it in athlete. In music, it's just gone unless you were somebody that came around before social media and held your status up through social media. If Beyonce shows up somewhere, it's gonna be pandemonium.
Sensei (56:33)
Yeah, because of the mystery.
Fatboi (56:35)
because she still has that mystique.
Sensei (56:37)
that Iconics does.
Fatboi (56:39)
Iconic status. Chris, several factors, you know, the Rihanna situation and how visible he is. He should be icon status. I'll give him icon status, but he's he's in reality, he's right below icon status. And I don't know if he'll. His works should make him iconic.
but he's a little too visible and what he went through kinda just, ⁓ his ceiling lowered. But he would have been definitely the next coming of a Michael Jackson if he was making full bodies of.
of work where every song on that album was just a hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit.
Sensei (57:30)
Well, if he had assembled the kind of crew that Michael had too, you know.
Fatboi (57:35)
Yeah, and that's
what you get from that.
Sensei (57:37)
No, that's why Michael's kind of a one of a kind really, you know, kind of a perfect storm of all those elements come together in so many ways.
Fatboi (57:47)
But also, how do you become that superstar like that now if you aren't present?
without MTV and BET being, well, MTV mainly, being what it was, because that was your only time to really see your favorite artist in a dope, well thought out video.
Sensei (58:04)
What?
Listen up kids, I'm so old, I remember when MTV used to play videos all the time. Literally 24 hours a day. Just three, four minute, three and four minute videos nonstop and it was great, but.
Fatboi (58:17)
I am old enough to remember that.
man,
I remember, I remember as a kid.
My pops letting us stay up past bedtime.
for the countdown of Thriller. We don't have shit like that no more, man. It's an event.
Sensei (58:34)
Yes.
No, it was an event.
Like he hired, Michael hired one of the top movie directors to turn that thing into a mini movie. John Landis, right? ⁓ that thing was an event. I remember hearing about it, like, what is this? Is it a song? He's acting? What's going on? And the mystery pulled you in.
Fatboi (58:46)
That's John Landis.
And not only that, you tied all American.
folklore, the stuff that we fell in love with, horror movies, zombies, werewolves, ⁓ of these ghouls and goblins. And then you had...
the zombies break dancing like our generation wanted to see. When I saw zombies spinning around and popping, I was like.
Sensei (59:32)
People give classes on how to do the Thriller Dance now. It's like a thing still.
Fatboi (59:35)
Yeah, man.
I mean, it's just like, and I think at the time, Michael was like 21 years old. So he was the time and was so perfect for him. 21, the apex of his career. And everything that's cool at this moment, he's putting that in the Thriller video. Like, man, that was like, what?
Sensei (59:59)
And it's still cool, and my 11 year old son still listens to that on his Halloween playlist and you know.
Fatboi (1:00:04)
My
18 year old son, ⁓ Michael was his, when he was three, four years old, Michael was his favorite artist. Like how does that happen? Like when somebody out there, somebody out there wising up and can we get back to the mystique of things? Can we please have mystique back?
Sensei (1:00:24)
Yes.
And that's why even me, the 14 year old that listened to Ozzy Osbourne, had a copy of Thriller. Everybody got on the Thriller ⁓ train, know, the crazy train, Thriller train.
Fatboi (1:00:39)
everybody.
You know
what else I just found out? I just found out Michael Jackson is the reason another one bites the dust.
became what it became.
Sensei (1:00:55)
Explain yourself,
Fatboi (1:00:57)
Queen?
thought that record was a joke.
They laughed at it, you know, cause the producer, you know, he heard this thing in his head and he got the guys to cut the record. But the guys, was, it was a joke to them. No way we gonna put this record out. Michael Jackson would come, you know, you know, certain studios the guys are working in or whatever, Michael was there. Michael would come in the room and hang out. Michael's in the corner. Freddie plays, another one bites the dust.
Sensei (1:01:11)
Right.
Fatboi (1:01:24)
from Michael.
Michael's in awe. He's like, you guys gotta put this record out. He asked him like, what are you guys gonna do with it? And you know, the other guys in the band, they're laughing. Nobody's gonna take this record serious. Michael's like.
Sensei (1:01:37)
Yeah, because they were like,
they were like kind of prog rockers doing like elaborate storylines and they're like, what is this? It's a dance record, right?
Fatboi (1:01:44)
Exactly.
it was okay. So the producer.
took a page out of Nile Roger's book from Chic That's why you have the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
Sensei (1:01:57)
Hold let dial it up there, yeah.
Huh.
Fatboi (1:02:06)
That was his thought process and he wanted, now it made, when I heard this, it made sense to me because what made Queen, what made Queen stand out to me and I started liking Queen and couldn't believe that I was liking a rock song was because.
Sensei (1:02:06)
So,
Fatboi (1:02:24)
Another one bites the dust would play on urban radio.
Sensei (1:02:29)
Yes.
Fatboi (1:02:30)
And it always like, why are they playing these rock guys on a black radio station? But that's why, because he wanted to cross Queen over into the urban space and that record did it. And Michael Jackson called it for him.
Sensei (1:02:49)
Huh.
Like right from jump you're already like this
Fatboi (1:02:56)
You caught in it. You already bobbing your head.
Sensei (1:03:07)
and it's just so clean.
There's like three things in this record.
Fatboi (1:03:20)
Another one bites the dust.
Sensei (1:03:22)
I remember this one being in the jukebox. This is another jukebox classic.
Fatboi (1:03:24)
Yes.
This record right here crossed them over into so much other stuff because the producer had the wherewithal to say like, hey, look what this Chic record is doing. This good time record is playing everywhere. All right, now, do you hear the Nile Rodgers guitar licks?
Sensei (1:03:52)
Yes, that's
a total Nile Rodgers approach with the way he's hitting those chords.
Probably same voicings too.
Fatboi (1:04:06)
And then he added his Freddie Mercury to it and they owned it.
Sensei (1:04:09)
Yeah.
Yes. Just left all this room, all this negative space for Freddie to fill it up with.
Fatboi (1:04:17)
That was key to the record too, because the guys were feeling it was real empty and he wanted it empty on purpose so you could have all this room to play with stuff.
Sensei (1:04:23)
It feels.
It
feels like a dark room with like a one spotlight shining on each element, which was sort of like the picture, the famous picture of queen where there's just four beams of light and four faces. That's like their iconic image of queen was a lot of negative space and just this focused on what's important.
Fatboi (1:04:32)
Yeah, man.
Sensei (1:04:49)
was very sparse.
Fatboi (1:04:51)
So you could just imagine.
my uncle's going out to the club and this record comes on and the floor is packed in a black club because of the Nile Rodgers.
Sensei (1:05:14)
influence
Fatboi (1:05:16)
feel of the good times record that he wanted and he pulled it off. He was able to get that out of his head onto wax.
Sensei (1:05:33)
That fill though, that's an iconic drum fill right there.
Fatboi (1:05:37)
And the guy, like I said, the guys were laughing at this and said, nobody will take this record serious. Even after Michael said that, the other guys in the group were still kind of questioning like, nobody's gonna take this record serious. But Freddie Mercury said, hey guys, if Michael Jackson said this record is a smash, it's a smash. We need to listen.
Sensei (1:06:04)
Yes.
Fatboi (1:06:04)
And they went with it as a single and the rest is history. You know what this record did.
Sensei (1:06:10)
And to your point about icons, Freddie Mercury still exists as an icon after all this time. Yes. ⁓ Just to get back to something you were saying about. ⁓ Exactly. Well, I want to see the Ozzy movie. Just one point I want to make because you're you're talking about the crossover factor because T-Pain famously when he did this Above the Covers record.
Fatboi (1:06:14)
Still an icon. Still an icon.
You can make movies about icons.
I'll see you in the next one.
Sensei (1:06:37)
did a version of Ozzy's War Pigs from Black Sabbath that went viral and even Ozzy Osbourne himself was like, dude, that's the best cover of War Pigs I've ever heard. Just to see that influence crosses over, like, you know.
Fatboi (1:06:47)
Yeah.
You know why he
did a good job? Because he genuinely likes the record. He's not doing it just to do it. He felt that in his heart to really do this record and do it, but not only that, do it justice to where Ozzy himself would love it.
Sensei (1:07:08)
That's a hell of a cosign. When the original guy shows up on your feed to tell you, yeah, that's the best cover I ever heard.
Fatboi (1:07:09)
That's a hell of a cosign.
That's hell of a cosign and you know, he did it from genuine love of that record. And see that, and that's exactly my point. That's exactly my point right there. You know, because there was a faction of people in the hood that wouldn't let you know that they like rock music. Like I remember as a kid loving... ⁓
J. Giles, ⁓ what was the name of the group? J Giles, my angel is, the J Giles band, my angel is a centerfold. nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, huge song. But I remember that record, used to come on on Saturday mornings. I forgot what we might've been watching.
Sensei (1:07:45)
The J-Giles Band, yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a huge song back in the day.
Fatboi (1:07:59)
American band, nah, it wasn't American bandstand because the video was playing, but it was playing on something. Maybe it was MTV. I can't remember, but I used to love My Angel Is A Centerfold I used to love that record. I loved Giant Records. I loved Another One Bites The Dust. I loved that record.
Sensei (1:08:12)
A giant song. was non-stop.
Fatboi (1:08:22)
I loved, ⁓
land down under.
Sensei (1:08:25)
so Men at Work ⁓ opened for Toto last night. Those guys, well, that the one guy still around, the Colin guy, the rest of the original guys are out. ⁓ But yeah, he's still singing. ⁓ But he's got a great band and yeah, no, he was throwing down. He's. Well, no, that's Talking Heads, but he had like. ⁓ yeah, Talking Heads is still cranking, but like, you know.
Fatboi (1:08:29)
man, get the...
⁓ yeah, the lead singer.
burning down the house. That's talking heads. what men down on the end talking heads, like both of them guys.
Sensei (1:08:52)
Men at Work had ⁓ Johnny Be Good ⁓ It's a Mistake. They had like four or five smash hits off that record that Land Down Under came on.
Fatboi (1:08:59)
Yeah,
yeah man. stuff like that, man. ⁓ Another one of my favorite records growing up. And me myself, I just held all this stuff to myself, which is, guess when I started producing and creating music myself, a lot of this stuff that I had in my wheelhouse, I got an advantage over everybody that wasn't listening to rock.
because you don't know how to make it or stuff that goes into it. But another one of my favorite records was ⁓ Billy Idol, White Wedding.
Sensei (1:09:36)
Oh man, that guy is still going around. I saw him a year two ago. Yeah, no, he's an original. mean, he's still cranking him out too. I mean, he's just...
Fatboi (1:09:39)
Billy Idol?
Man.
I hear the secrets that you keep when you're talking in your sleep. The romantics. See, I remember the names quicker than you.
Sensei (1:09:52)
Greg over romantic. Yeah.
All right.
While we're doing confession, do you want to know my secret record that I'd ⁓ secret artists that I kind of reluctant to admit to? Abba.
Fatboi (1:10:08)
Me too, I ain't gonna lie.
Sensei (1:10:09)
No,
seriously, the best production ever. These Swedish pop stars, like, you know, they're kind of disco-y and cheesy. man, if you listen, if you break, we need to break down some ABBA records.
Fatboi (1:10:11)
It wasn't, yeah.
Man, look, man,
I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not even ashamed of it because the record is just dope. It might be gay as hell, but it's dope. Dancing Queen, that fucking song, The instrument, man, that record, man. I just remember as a kid, why does this record?
Sensei (1:10:36)
Dude, well, literally, yeah. Well, that whole record, so.
Fatboi (1:10:46)
sound and feels so damn good. It was them girls. I had a crush on one of the girls too.
Sensei (1:10:50)
Well, yeah, no, they just had the they had the look they had this concept they were like a Married two married couples and they got divorced or whatever, but you know, they had drama The song itself dancing queen tells a little story But it caught on gay nightclubs and became a gay anthem. So it'll you know, but it has life beyond that so it just is
Fatboi (1:11:08)
It gave you anthem, yeah.
The record sounds
gay. I don't think it came out, you know, that was the intent, but because it became a gay anthem.
Sensei (1:11:17)
No, well, mean, that's what news
flash, that's what discos were are. Yeah. Yeah. So.
Fatboi (1:11:23)
It was, yeah. Disco Queens, Yeah,
Studio 54, they were everywhere.
Sensei (1:11:29)
Yeah, that's kind of the culture, man. Like, ⁓ that's where the underground music starts. And then it goes mainstream because everyone wants to get past the velvet rope, you know? Exactly.
Fatboi (1:11:39)
in the discotheque.
So yeah, that album was...
Sensei (1:11:44)
We
should do one of these, especially if we get a guest, like your secret record you hate to admit is in your collection. But ABBA holds up. It stands the test of time. Iconic status. They make movies based on their songs, you know? So.
Fatboi (1:11:59)
That is true, yeah. That is true.
They were, yes, they were one, man. They were one of those for me too. There's a few others from the 80s, but man, they were definitely one. ⁓
Sensei (1:12:18)
Well, I'll tell you what, man, I think we hit some really, God, yes, Journey. All right, let's put a pin on that, because I want to talk about that later, but I think we got like 90 minutes of material here. We got some good stuff done today, man, I think. so let's tag an outro. man, yeah. All right, we'll put a pin on this.
Fatboi (1:12:21)
Journey.
turning.
Def Lipper.
I don't
want you
Sensei (1:12:43)
That is a huge record. my God. I could do about 90 minutes on that one.
Fatboi (1:12:47)
Yeah, I still love that record to this day.
Sensei (1:12:51)
Well, so let's leave it there, man. We're started about funk that breaks the rules, but then we got into Ozzy, other rule breakers and ⁓ living on the edge. People respect the realness, the realness last. You don't have to obey rules. The funk will. You can't fake the funk if it's on the one it's on the one. People can realize it because it just is.
Fatboi (1:12:54)
Man.
Authenticity.
If it feels good, it is good.
Sensei (1:13:20)
And that's the highest level.
We're gonna leave it there. ⁓ Talking about icons and rule breakers. I am Sensei. This is Fatboi and It's Levels To This...thank you for watching.
Fatboi (1:13:28)
its levels to this.