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Proximal Hamstring Tendinopathy is a horrible condition affecting athletes and non-athletes alike. If you fall victim to the misguided information that is circulating the internet, symptoms can persist for months, sometimes years and start impacting your everyday life.
This podcast is for those looking for clear, evidence-based guidance to overcome Proximal Hamstring Tendinopathy. Hosted by Brodie Sharpe, an experienced physiotherapist and content creator, this podcast aims to provide you with the clarity & control you desperately need.
Each episode brings you one step closer to finally overcoming your proximal hamstring tendinopathy. With solo episodes by Brodie, success stories from past sufferers and professional interviews from physiotherapists, coaches, researchers and other health professionals so you get world class content.
Tune in from episode #1 to reap the full benefits and let's get your rehabilitation back on track!
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On today's episode, have Kirsten's PHT success story. Welcome to the podcast that gives you the most up-to-date, evidence-based information on PHT rehab. My name is Brodie. I am an online physio, but I've also managed to overcome my own battle with PHT in the past. And now I've made it my mission to give you all the resources you need to overcome this condition yourself. So with that, let's dive into today's episode. I was blessed to have Kirsten reach out via email saying, Hey, Brody, thanks for your podcast. This is how your content has helped me and told a little bit about her story and her successes and wins. And I replied to that email saying, would you like to come onto the podcast? And here we are. I didn't realize at the time, but um Kirsten is from Melbourne, so where I live. So it's great to have a local and chat back and forth about those things, but also her qualifications as a personal trainer took this conversation slightly differently to what we have on success stories. We spent a bit of time focusing on her exercises, her technique, her cues, her breathing, and certain sort of practical elements that you can take away with your gym based rehab as well. So it was nice to have that particular shift in focus. And she talks about her story. She developed PhD about two years ago and still went through the ring around of misinformation and not finding the right things that were working and then eventually stumbled upon this content and what she found was extremely helpful and then started turning things around and she talks us through that whole journey on this episode. She also made reference to another podcast episode I think was on Diary of a CEO but she mentioned that she would reach back out and send me the link to those and we also made several references to the previous PhD episode around the pain scales. And um just after recording, I decided to go find that episode and attach that into the podcast show notes in case you haven't seen it, because it was very helpful for Kirsten and her journey. And so yeah, let's take it away with Kirsten. Kirsten, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. Thank you for having me. It's fantastic because you were a huge part of my treatment journey. thrilled to actually be able to talk about how you helped that. Excellent. Well, looking forward to sharing that story with the audience as well. Let's set the stage with a bit of information about you, including like your background, your physical and fitness background, as well as your qualifications as well. Well, I'm a product executive and board director. So I do lots of, um you know, probably sitting too much in a chair work, I'd say, and at a computer. So great posture. But in addition to that, probably about in 98, I decided I wanted to do personal training on the side. So I went and got personal training qualifications. I was through Harper Studio, people in Melbourne probably know that and did, became a personal trainer at the side. So that was kind of a side gig. And that really helped me obviously understand and be comfortable around the gym, but nutrition, all of those kinds of things. I've kept that throughout my whole life. it's, it's been a foundation that... which has been really valuable in high stress environments to be able to go and work out. Um, so people would say I'm a pretty active person. do boot scooting and things now and at all. Um, and have done roller skating. So tackling things way into my fifties, um, that I probably wouldn't have done if I hadn't have had that face of training when I was in my twenties. What a go getter. Well done. Good to hear. What about this onset of PhD? When did that all start up and how long ago was that? Yeah, so it was a couple of years ago and I'd gone and done something like so obviously always fit and one of the things that I've read actually it's something, a condition that seems to affect people who are quite active and so it's those things that you think, wow if I just didn't need a chair all the time would I be getting something like this? But I was, I think there was two things that kind of led to it. One was I started playing pickable. And so I think I was using more of my hamstrings cause you kind of at the net and hunching over. I'm very, and I'm a tall person. So I was kind of using that. And then probably the thing that did it though, was I was running for a tram and I felt something twig. I was like, yeah, that didn't feel good. And then it just kind of stayed. And so that was, that was probably the onset. And initially I thought I'd just pulled something and then gradually when it didn't go away, thought, hold on, this is something that's a bit. more serious. just running across for that tram was the very first symptoms that ever emerged. probably had hammy's and, and, know, females, I think we always do legs more at gym and all of that type of stuff. I guys always do the upper body. Um, so I obviously very strong legs, but probably, think I was in hindsight now, I was definitely weaker in my hamstrings than I realized. And that sudden jolt of the sprint to the tram, I think, activated it. And, but it was already tight from kind of leaning over and doing probably two, I got into quicker, pickleball really quickly. I loved it and probably doing too much of that as well. So it was probably a combination of those two. think that led to it. Okay. And so once that onset of symptoms was created, it was continuing with pickleball, continuing with, you know, maintaining your fitness. sitting as you mentioned a lot and then just symptoms persisted from there. Yeah. And it just got increasingly worse. And I thought, Oh, hold on. I can't, you know, to the point I didn't want to really play pickleball because that was definitely aggravating it. Sitting was becoming really hard. So I knew it wasn't great. Um, and so I went and spoke, saw my physio and that set me off on a journey that I think, um, again, it's one of those things that not all my physio is great, but this was an area that he specialized in. So he kind of told me quite traditional things with, you know, basically isometric exercises, holding bridges, back off the weights, keep, you know, do all of these bridge work. And I do that for a couple of weeks, go back to the gym and it comes straight back again. And I was like, this isn't good. Like, oh no, you just got to do more bridging and things like that. And I'm like, I don't think it's working for me. So that's when I started actually researching. Oh, the other thing, obviously I had scans done. And um from that, they were able to see that there was a tear there. And um so it was like, okay, there's a tear going on. What am I gonna do? And so kind of being a researcher, naturally went in and started trying to soak all the latest research in this space. Cause I'd seen the X-ray and they'd basically, said it was a proxenominal hamstring tendinopathy that I was experiencing. And that's where that's the first thing that said, okay, this is actually something different than what I think I've been getting treated with. Okay. Well with timeframes, like how long from the onset of symptoms did you eventually get diagnosed with scans? Yeah, it was about it. In all honesty, it took a long time. Like it was about, um, six months of this trying to fix this thing, it was coming back, not really fixing anything. And I remember I was starting to get worried because I was, with my work, I'm doing a lot of flying. And so I'd start to get anxious because I'm thinking, I've got to sit on a seat for an hour and that's going to kill me because I was really getting to this point that I couldn't sit down for extended period of time. So that was worrying me. And then I knew I was going to go overseas and that Then I knew I was going to have a stretch of hours having to sit down in a chair. And so I thought, gosh, I've really got to try to fix this before I'm on a long plane flight. And that long plane flight was in October. So probably from about May to September, sorry, March to September, I was in this, what's going on? What am I going to do kind of phase? Um, and really getting more and more anxious because it wasn't good settling down. Yeah. And like you said, might've been getting worse. In terms of symptoms, was it staying localized to that high hamstring, sit bone area or did it do anything weird? It was mainly that, um, probably my one saving grace was I could still do lighter things like dancing and walking. Cause so when you're trying to relate, you know, get some energy released and things, I could still do that. But even walking, like I remember appeals wasn't great. So I was trying to have to pick flats and all of these kind of, you change everything to try to make this work. Um, but it was, and I was reading the other thing too, was I was reading a lot of stuff online and that was giving me a bit of despair because everybody was talking about this thing and then nobody was solving it and they were going for surgery and I was like, gosh, there's gotta be something. And that's when I came across your podcast and started religiously listening to every episode and thought this guy's onto something here. was your online, uh, source? Like when you said you were looking at other people's experiences, where were you mainly gravitating towards? There's Facebook groups on this condition. And it's interesting, like there's a lot of runners in those groups, like so that it's quite specific around that. But definitely Facebook and online were the kind of the key areas. And it was interesting, a couple, your podcast came and there was another one with the doctor's name, Escape Me, that he was being interviewed by the guy who does Stephen Barlett, who does diary of a CTO, CEO. oh And he kind of indirectly talked about some of these things where he trains top elite athletes and how um the science had changed where they try to get them as quickly as possible onto the using the tendon, working the tendon with weights, all of this stuff. In saying that I'd had, again, when you're highly active, you're always dealing with injuries. think there's always something right. And I'd had tennis elbow and golfers elbow before. And the way that had been sold was doing weights with tendons. And because, you know, the tendons can be drama queens and you kind of of trick them into working. So it was interesting, even with this, it was still the advice I was getting given should have been closer to that. I think like work it with weights and it will come back, but it's still different. It's about isolation and isometric exercises. So it was interesting. I started thinking about that and I'm thinking, how are these tendons different really from the tendons in the legs? why aren't I doing a similar thing? And that's where your stuff really resonated with me. And I thought, yeah, it's gotta be about working those tendons more. And I think the other big thing was pain. So I was scared from what I was kinda told when I was, oh, if you go this extreme, you're not gonna be able to do this and all of that. And so I kind of thought, oh, this is hurting. I've gotta stop. And once I'd listened to your podcast on pain levels and what was normal, that real something clicked in there and I thought, okay, I'm experiencing pain, but it's not an eight, nine. It's about a four, five, six, and I can deal with that. So that really helped me starting to push through and get that recovery in place. The other key thing I did was get a personal, even people again think, oh, if you're a personal trainer, why do you need a personal trainer? Well, for yourself, you never can totally look at your own technique and you can video yourself and see things, but. then correcting that you want somebody who's watching you on the fly. And we've all got different mechanics and I'm tall. So my levers are different. And so I can watch a video, but that person could be five foot four. And so it's not going to be the same for me. So it was really important also getting a personal trainer and just going back to basics again, and just saying, can you look at my form from scratch? Cause I want to get this really good. Excellent. How like talking about the around the upcoming flights and long haul flights and those sorts of things. um You mentioned there was one in October, was the, this revelation about, you know, unpacking the right things to do and the heavy lifting and the pain sort of stuff, did that come prior to those long haul flights? did you, like, how did you manage to negotiate that? So I watched that just before, like it was about six weeks before that. And so I was able to start to get into that program. then, um so by the time I flew, it wasn't perfect or anything, but it definitely settled down and I knocked myself out for the rest of it, right? So there may have been drugs involved. So I managed to get there, but I could tell from the training, it was definitely getting better. And then when I came back, um I went and connected with the, I saw, see Nostio as well for different stuff. And he actually, ah was on to this stuff as well. That's the way that he thinks and trains himself. So he was also really good in terms of saying, okay, yeah, what you're doing now is right. Let's tweak some of the approaches and add some of these other exercises. so before I went, I hadn't seen got with a personal trainer. It was actually my osteo when I came back. He looked at some of my techniques on and he said, look, I think you're pretty good, but I think just get a... PT to do the sessions with you a couple of times and just make sure you're absolutely on point. So that was when I'd come back from that big overseas trip. And so it was really between October to December that I had got the PT, did this, really started to get heavier weights and everything. Started off lighter, but perfect technique and pushing through pain. And that's when I started noticing a big difference. And I mean, Brody, the biggest thing has been, you know, there's always hindsight in these things. What was, and you think, what was the benefit of me getting a terrible injury like this? Cause that's, maybe I can give some of your listeners some hope. I think the biggest thing for me about going back to basics was I ended up being able to lift heavier because my technique was over time, if you go into the gym regularly and you think you know your way around. It's just natural. get a bit, I'm not, slopping maybe is a harder, too harsh a word, but you know, your technique isn't always there. And people would look at me, I think, and say that I've got good technique, but there were little things, were cues and stuff and breathing and all of those things. And so my PT really helped get on top of that. And so by, and it's always, you don't notice you've passed some of these things until afterwards, but I remember in January, remembering the January before, And thinking, I think I've passed this. And that was uh an amazing feeling after having this thing drag with me for so long. And I haven't, so I've had now a year of full recovery kind of thing, or what I'd say recovery. But of course there's times I feel, oh, hold on, is that a bit tweaky? And then I do the same things again in terms of just kind of almost really focusing on overloading those areas. and making sure I'm getting enough of it into my program so they don't go back to where it was. Yeah. What were those key exercises that you initially implemented? Because I think you've alluded to a few of them, but maybe it's a good opportunity just to lay it all out. Yeah. And again, this was from you. So if people have listened to some of your previous things, they'll hear this. um So probably the biggest one was RDLs. um And that was a real game changer for me, I think in terms of, and sometimes people I think think it has to be deadlifts. And I think deadlifts can be a way more problematic exercise for people because there's so many other things that have to come fantastic exercise, but it's harder to get your perfect technique. So RDLs I think are a bit more forgiving in that sense. Can you maybe talk through like for someone who isn't that familiar, what would be the difference between a traditional deadlift versus an RDL? Yeah, so probably the key difference is RDLs you're coming, I'm sorry, deadlifts you're coming from the ground. And so you've got your bar and your weights on the ground and you're picking the bar up right from the ground. RDLs you put like, you know, what are they called? Stoppers in place that, so you only really pick the bar up from just your thigh level and go from there. Also, I'd say just in terms of when you're thinking about, and again, you can have. different forms of these exercises. So don't come for me right? I know there's Romanians and all of this type of stuff but for me it was when I was doing RD hells about really thinking about pushing my bum back and um you know and obviously trying to keep your legs relatively just slightly bent not locked and really pushing my bum and and kind of and as I'm coming up was really thinking about that thrusting motion and squeezing at the back. um that that for so for Again, if you, anybody's listening to this, if you go on Insta or TikTok, any of those, a look at difference between RDLs and deadlifts, you'll see that very quickly. So I didn't do deadlifts at all during this phase. It was all RDLs and that was deliberate. thought, you know what, I want to really practice on getting the key exercise that's going to help. Right. The other thing I did was hamstring curls and I probably didn't do those enough, but beforehand, before this injury happened. But the difference too is I did single legs. So I think people can be very dominant on one side. And if you do your legs together, that's masking that dominance. So doing it singly, I could see really quickly my injured side, which was my right was really, really weak. And my left side was not strong and normal. So I thought, oh, okay. And again, you don't want to suddenly then you drop back on both because you don't want to be really strong continuing on one side and in balance there. So it was things like that. The other thing I did was step ups and my PT was really good. I did a different form of that than probably what you talked about on your podcast and things there Brody. But cause I'm tall again, got a box and so I really hide one of the highest boxes that you can get. And I'd have a kettlebell in one leg, one arm. And my trainer actually got me to, cause you see people, you know, doing slip lunges and all of this type of stuff and they're off balance. My trainer actually had me with a broom stick on, you know, one of the broomstick holders on one side to get total balance. And then you could really isolate that step up with the kettlebell on that side. And I remember the first time I did it thinking, oh, and so you're really isolating, going really, really slow. and thinking, oh my God, my hamstrings gonna snap off here at this point. But it's amazing to see, right? You just stick with it and after a couple of weeks with lifting the weight up and you say, now I can do that. And they're never fun. It's an exercise I don't think is ever fun, but I'm definitely doing way heavier than when I started. So they were the three main ones. I gave away kind of from what I was listening to your stuff, all the bridging, I was doing all these crab walks and. glute bridges, oh, and sorry, the fourth one was hip thrusts. That's another one that was really key. But also getting the technique and it's one I, because I always look at what different people do, have the gym, but it's what I just see, oh my goodness, with RDLs is another one actually in squats. But technique is so key with the hip thrust as well. And again, it was something that I'd been doing it for years, but I think I was slightly off in where I was meant to be focusing and So that was another one. think that was really key in terms of my recovery, because you can really focus on, um, the glute area and the, and the hamstrings there by just moving your feet. And so that was something that I think helped in that, it was those four exercises gave away all the bridging, the crab walks, all the white stuff and haven't done them in all honesty since then. The hamstring curls, were they like with a seated hamstring curl machine or was that lying prone? lying on my stomach prone. uh Since then they've changed. Jim had probably one of the best ones of that was a perfect angle. They've upgraded all the machines and the new one doesn't go all the way back. So now I'm doing seated. But the seat, can feel that now I think because I've got the mental muscle there, I can feel where the right angle is for the seated and everything now. So the prone one was my recovery part. But I think now that that's locked in, I can do the seated one. Nice. And what about like rep ranges? Did you have a particular focus on how many sets and reps you did for each exercise? Yeah, kind of like, um, typical, you know, trying to get to the eight to 12 reps side. And this is probably, this was kind of the key, I think also in terms of a recovery stage of, because before initially when I was doing this, the minute I got pain stopped, right. And so this was probably the key difference that I'd be doing. probably an average eight to 10 reps, but at least half of those were with pain. So it was difference of, this a pain from my muscles feeling fatigued or is this a pain from the injury? And so I pushed through the injury pain um and just have mentally saying, look, I've got to get to eight or 10 or whatever it was. so that was a very interesting challenge initially. And then I noticed the pain stopped and I was able to, just start to focus on, you know, trying to do heavier because that's what we're trying to do in the gym. But the other thing with my trainer was really good at, of just forget about the weight, right? Doesn't matter, right? Like let's just get a technique, but also getting to the point that you're not feeling pain through this exercise. And he was also really good at saying, I, you know, he was an ex elite soccer player and all the rest of it, right? So. Because I always do feel pain when I'm doing this stuff. So it is, this I think is probably the hardest thing for people to get their head around. Like what is pain that's okay when you're trying to rehabilitate versus normal weight training pain. And anybody who's done weight training, I think knows that pain. Like you just know it's horrible when you're trying to lift something that's too heavy at a certain point. So it's kind of separating that from the pain of that injury. And also I wouldn't, I mean, you go into these forums and if in all honesty, a lot of it was depressing me because I was like, gosh, people seem to just be living with this their whole lives and they all they'd had surgery and they didn't give the outcome they expected. so part of it was I thought, oh, hold on. I don't think this is healthy mentally. Let me find somewhere that people were actually talking about recovering from this thing. And that was also Brody Wood. I think it was great about yours, not only the podcast, but I think. you then have a community of people that can come together and hear that and all the rest of it. So that I didn't end up doing that at all, obviously, because I was at a stage when I found out about that, that, um, cause I'd worked my way through your podcast and it was only in later podcasts. You started talking about that. Um, that I realized that was there, but by then I probably, I didn't need it anymore. Yeah. I like to remind people that when you get big groups, big Facebook groups of a certain condition, the ones that get better don't post. The ones that are really fearful, really anxious, aren't getting the right answers, keep getting flare ups. They're the ones that post because their motivation to post is really high. And the ones that are in a lot of pain, other ones that are scrolling and then commenting on those posts and like engaging. And someone could just have this injury for, you know, a couple of weeks, couple of months, and then scroll through and be like, Oh my God, like no one's getting better with this injury. And everyone's had it for years and years and years that You get this really biased sample size of hundreds of people. You can easily see how that can skew your reality because as soon as people get better, they're like, Oh, I don't need this group anymore. And they leave, or they just forget about it just never post, never scroll, never engage. And so it's, um, it's an important reminder for a lot of people that that is what's naturally going to happen when you have a group of thousands of people that. join for a certain condition. Well, it's totally true. And even now I notice like, cause I subscribe to these groups on Facebook, I get notifications when different people are pinging stuff and occasionally I'll go in there and I'll comment and share, Hey, there is actually a way to recover from this. And this is what I've done and blah, blah, blah. And shared your journey and things like your podcasts and things, but even there, I think sometimes people get into a spiral. And so, you know, I've had, when I've done that, Sometimes you get back from people or sometimes they'll come back and say, oh yeah, but I've been told not to train or I've been told, um you know, bridges are the key for this. And so you kind of get to a point where you have to try these things and see what's working for you. And you can't believe everything other people are saying either. Right. So for me, I think when I'd heard your stuff Brody, it clicked, as I said, with the tendon experience I'd had previously with golfers and tennis elbow. But also I thought, what have I got to lose? Like at this point, I'm in, my physio has told me one thing that doesn't seem to be working. I'm kind of in this gray space. So what do I do? And I'll give it a try. And so that was where I think sometimes you've got to do your own research and come to that conclusion yourself and look for positive. Like exactly as you said, probably sometimes people will post and everything and they're upset, but there were other places I found that people were. talking about positive, like YouTube had some good exercises and things too from people who'd obviously had to do programs. And probably some of the other things in hindsight, looking back at my training, I was doing already, which were good too. um I'm a big proponent of balance, especially as you get older. And so that I think helped me, like even though I'd had this injury in terms of recovery and things like that. I was able to kind of balance some of the training with doing my usual balance work and things as well. I'll do, um what are they? The BOSU, people pronounce them differently. BOSU balls? Yep. Yep. A BOSU I would call it. BOSU or whatever. I do a lot of um kind of balanced stuff on that, like squatting on those and one um basically hamstring, single legs going up and down and everything. And so again, That kind of those offsets, but it is one thing, but it also, I know that it just helps overall with body conditioning and mind as well. So it's things that find my point there is find some joy still in the things that you can do at gym and, bring those into it. Cause otherwise it is a pretty, it is a bit of a slog. So there were still things I could look forward to and I knew I could do. um But I was also balancing that with stuff that became challenging because of the injury. Back to the conversation around pain was that it is tricky to navigate because sometimes you can push through too much pain. The tendon kind of gets irritated afterwards and you're like, if, if overdone, um, how did you navigate that space? How did you sort of, did you have any particular guidelines or characteristics of the pain or something that you could differentiate what was acceptable versus what wasn't? Yeah, well, the one thing I listened to your podcast on that a couple of times, I really took on board what you were saying about the different scales of pain and what was right and wrong. So I had that context. And then it was a bit of trial and error that if so I'd notice how was it, what were the things that were triggering? Because what happens is when you're training, obviously the pain kicks in. And then though, what's the stopping of that pain or the recovery like? So I would kind of take note of when did it go, when did I go too far? Because it didn't kind of stop when I finished exercising, I was kind of still there or when it was there the next day kind of thing still. So I started just making little notes on my phone around that so I could just kind of see the patterns there and what. what was kind of the weights and the exercises I'd done before that seemed to lead to that. And I'm just back off a bit. noticing, think there's two parts of that is doing the exercises, but then also noticing how your body's responding to that and have you gone too hard or the other side is true too, where I kind of felt fine. When I started recovering a bit and felt fine, at the back of my mind, I was still a bit, oh, I can't push myself too far. But then I thought, hold on, you kind of can now, because you're not getting paid. So you're saying nothing's kind of been hurting. So, hey, go the next level. So it's important. And again, this probably seems a bit tedious and things like that doing this stuff, but it's not going to be for the rest of your life. uh six weeks or a month or whatever out in the scheme of things is nothing when you've been dealing with this ongoing injury like I had. So I was prepared to just say, you know what, I'll watch it, I'll focus and learn. And it was pretty critical because then I knew that I could push myself more or I had to back off a bit. Yep. And when it comes to your Romanian deadlift technique, you mentioned that the cues that like the focus that you really, um, accentuated was like the sitting back and moving your hips back. Um, was there any other cues that you found really worked for you? I know you say that everyone has different anatomy, height, sizes, and that'll work for different people, but what did you find useful? Um, there, well, there's a couple of, and again, know it's, PTs always go, don't follow people on Instagram, blah, blah, blah. Like they're all, they're all just influencers and things. But there's a couple of people out there that you know what they're doing is right. Right. They're, they're not just trying to be body perfect and all the rest of it. Um, so there was a couple of guys and I can, I can't even remember the names off, but I can share those with you afterwards where I knew that their techniques were good as well, but just watching and seeing what they were doing and what their cues were. This is one guy who's Swedish and he's got a red beard and he always talks about William. Like it's pretty crazy. But he's actually really good because there's a couple of things that he talks about of, and again you can kind of know these things but it's just got to be in your head about the timing. So you want to go slow down and you know and faster up and it's not like ridiculously faster up but it's faster than when you went down. keeping that uh eccentric movement um versus your concentric movement. One, that slow and making sure that you're really getting into it and then up and at a faster pace. So you're kind of doing your counting of three or four slow, one, two, up kind of thing. counting's one. Being able, the other key thing I used to, what I realized too was I was getting back pain with some of these exercises that I was kind of just pushing aside as I've got to dodge you back kind of thing. But it was the exercises had been contributing to that dodgy back for sure. um And so really getting properly into pelvic tilting and engagement of abs and all the rest of it um and being braced properly when I was going into that. So this also helped fix up all my back problems I was having. um And the other thing was, you know, even the placement and of your feet and your arms. And I was too wide, I think with my gripping before. So of course you haven't got the same leverage when it's again, things that you're not necessarily thinking about when you're doing it yourself. bringing that closer in and also really engaging my back and making sure my delts and back was really engaged. Whereas sometimes I think I'm naturally a rounded person doing lots of desk work and all of that type of stuff. Um, so getting that real shoulders back and making sure that you're the queue there for me, I think is also that you, you, am I feeling my triceps wrong? Like again, that wouldn't be something I'd be really been thinking about before, but my back shot and tricep connection there and being able to kind of then go into it. Um, so it's all of those and making sure the bar is kind of, you know, grazing. depending what you're doing, if you're doing a deadlift, it's all about the, is grazing up the shins. And that's why you sometimes see what bodybuilders and weightlifters wearing socks, long socks in the gym. think, what are they, is that a fashion statement? What are they doing? And it's because often they're grazing the bar against their legs, right? Cause it's that close to their shins. So that's maybe something, again, when I'm watching other people do it, I think they have the bar too far away from them and don't keep it right connected to the body. So things like that. um The back, are you triceps there? Are you kind of pushing your bum back? And I would think of sitting on a dirty toilet seat. You don't want to sit on a dirty toilet seat, right? But even then, I think it was just different of the positioning. uh I think I was too rounded. was my back was kind of rounding. um If I think about, you you've got that, you want to just keep it neutral. I was kind of almost running, rounding. What a really good exercise actually my osteo got me onto from this was to get a broomstick. Sounds wrong, but putting it um up my back and the broomstick almost sitting on your butt cheeks. You've got clothes on obviously, right? It sounds worse than it is. um And so, and looking in the mirror and doing the deadlift and stuff with that. Now, If you haven't got that broomstick there, the idea being that your back is against that broomstick the whole time you're doing that movement. That was a really good one actually, because I noticed my back was coming off. I can't even do it now because I do it properly, but um my back was coming away from that broomstick. And that got me kind of thinking of knowing the position, my back and my abs and everything needed to be in to be holding that lift correctly. So. Maybe that can help people start with a broomstick up your back or between your butt cheeks and do this kind of, um, the movement for the RDL. And if that's coming, if that's you're moving away from that broomstick, you're not engaging your, your core in your back, um, appropriately. And what about breathing? You mentioned that as a cue, uh, that helps you. How do you focus on your breathing at this stage? Well, I think because you've got it when you get into that position and you kind of. draw everything in and you're keeping that movement and there's a lot of I've noticed there's a lot of discrepancy and with breathing and everything everybody's got different views of breath and whatever it is right so I'm not going to proclaim to be the expert in breathing whatsoever but I did notice that if you're in the key part of the movement like being that eccentric phase that's where your breath is typically held and then as you're coming up you're releasing for me anyway I don't know if that's right, Brady, but I think that was right in terms of what my trainers were saying and stuff. But that's how it's kind of evolved to that. You don't want to be doing heaps of deep breaths and everything when you're trying to get these movements right and things, which means you have to have enough air in your lungs when you start that movement and then go into it and gradually breathe out as you're coming back to your position. The other thing my trainer kind of talks about is, you know, thinking, when thinking about these things, You reset for every movement. So some people will start to, know, they get into, and then they're almost in autopilot for each of those reps. No, every rep, reset, get into things, get your breath and then go into it versus just being on autopilot. Yeah. think, uh, the breathing technique that works for me is as I'm coming down the eccentric downward phase of the deadlift, just, um, breathing in, but breathing in really deep through the base of my lungs. And how I like to think about it is I'm kind of like opposing the forces of the lower back, like what happens when you breathe in and you breathe deep is you're increasing your intra abdominal pressure. So you're actually having pressure that's pushing out onto the spine and onto the thoracic cavity, where you have these competing forces of like the load of the deadlift and the muscles like pushing in. you're trying to kind of equalize those two competing in and outwards forces. And then because the lowest part of the deadlift, however low it is for someone is the hardest, the most challenging part of the deadlift. And so when you get to the, the lowest point, that's when you finished your breath in and everything's like kind of balanced out. And then I tend to have this very minute or like short pause of my breath as I get through the last couple of angles of my down phase and coming back up phase. But then the majority of the coming back up is breathing out once I'm out of that really, um, intense kind of a strain you get probably could call it. And so that's how that's why I found works for me. Um, and it's, I've had lower back issues in the, years and years ago when I started doing dead lifts, like actually like really injured my lower back doing one deadlift in particular and set me back for like several weeks. But, uh, I'm lifting twice as heavy now without any back issues with that particular. breathing technique. so, um, yeah, just thought that's, that's what works for me. And if, I think about it, it's probably is what I'm doing as well. Brody, like I'll do them. I'll start the breath and have some, but I think I'm still getting some in as I'm going down. And then it is when I'm coming back up as when you're expanding. And to that point, I'm my trainer talks about how he actually won't train his clients on deadlifts until. He's confident they can do a lot of the other things well, because it is an exercise that people really always get injured in. And if you are, then you're out for weeks, then with trying to recover from it and things. So that's why I say to people, I wouldn't jump straight into deadlifts. I'd go RDLs. And then once you're starting getting confident in all of this and you kind of shaken the key injury, then look to the next level. The other thing I'd say also was sitting, like I really, really struggled. with sitting and I again, I listened to some of your stuff about having things off the chair, slightly elevated and being able to sit forward. um And it helped a bit, but that was a real issue for me. Cause I'm in meetings for hours often and you can't exactly kind of, excuse me guys, let me just walk around. I had to sometimes was the reality cause I was in pain, but I went. I remember I had to go to this conference once and take a donut thing with me. Like I've got, what is it, hemorrhoids or something. But that was fun. But yeah, cause I couldn't sit on a seat all day. Like that's how bad it was. So when I say I had this injury, I really had this injury. The key for me, and it still is now, I get a, I've got a cross between a standing and a sitting desk. And I try to spend a lot of my day standing. I also have gone back to sitting though, cause I think, It's just something I want to make sure. I noticed I was doing all standing and then it was too much when I suddenly would sit again. So if I was working remotely. So what I try to do is do like half an hour, 45 minutes, but really, really conscious and then stand up again, give myself a couple of hours, come back to sitting. So really again, I think you've got to train all of this stuff again, but for a while the thought of sitting and actually sitting. was just horrible. And so I think that's the other part people really struggle like watching TV. Like I couldn't just sit on a couch and sit back and watch TV and people go, that sounds crazy, but that was the reality. So I had to lie on bed and watch TV. So it's things like that, that you just, you have to kind of make all of these changes. But when you get to the other side and you're not noticing that anymore, it's going out for lunch, dinner. I had to stop doing dinners and lunch cause I could not go stomach the thought of sitting at a lunch for an hour with somebody across the table, sitting in a chair. I would do walking. If somebody wanted to get together, I said, look, I can walk from there, but I can't sit at the table with you for an hour. So there was a lot of things that really were impacting my life that you just don't take, you take for granted when, before you have this injury. But I think knowing that in hindsight now it's like, yeah, you can get through this. look for it, it's perfectly fine to not have to go and meet with people, go and do a walking thing or go and do something that's comfortable. And you can get over the other side of that because yeah, it was horrible for a period. What was your rehab journey like once you discovered more information, you learned about the right exercises, the pain scales and all those things. um Can you recall how long until you started to notice it improving? It was about four weeks, seriously. Like so that quickly, which doesn't maybe sound quick, but it was after dealing with this thing for so long, it felt like a long time. And again, I think when you're active, anything that's impacting your normal training is feeling long, right? Like you're like, oh. But I really think in about four weeks, I noticed, thought, wow, I think this is really working. Like I'm starting to not just I felt it just there all the time, even when it wasn't necessarily hurting. was still that, it's hard to describe, I suppose, but it was still there. But even sitting, I could notice that after four weeks, I could start to sit at the dinner table again and be able to sit there without thinking, gosh, I've got to stand up to five minutes type of thing. So that was one I noticed, wow, I could actually sit down and not be freaked out about having to get up so quickly. But yeah, four weeks was probably it. And so that's not that long in the scheme of things, but I was training three to four times. That was the other thing I thought, right. At minimum, I was like, I'm going to hit these things. I'm going to focus on these each session. So I was probably, and I don't know if that's too much in some ways, but I was doing it four times a week, three to four times a week, just focusing on these exercises. And um And maybe supplementing with I do a chest exercise at the same time or back or whatever, but that was my primary focus and didn't really care about a lot of the other weight exercises while I was going through this journey. Right. Any noticeable setbacks or flare ups or mishaps or anything throughout that journey? No, the key thing was just I'd notice sometimes when I go too hard and it would be too much. the next day it would kind of be hurting. So it was like, okay, we've got to pull it back a bit now. But just things that I've noticed since then has been, you know, running. can, I'm not a runner anymore. I'm not like you, that run smart thing that makes me cringe. I'm not going to be running. But in saying that, of course you have to do running sometimes at different phases. You're running for stuff or, you know, to go somewhere. And so I noticed that it wasn't hurting like before if I'd run at all, it'd be like limp, limp, limp. That wasn't hurting. So yeah, it wasn't, I think there wasn't any major setbacks. Maybe the hardest thing was I had to have, as I said, went back to having a couple day, all day meetings of sitting and afterwards I'd feel, right, I can, I've got to lie down. I feel like I can't stomach the thought of sitting at all tonight after that. But that was more, I think, just an aggravation of having to sit. Oh, the other big one, I remember I had to do a big long car journey that was four and a half hours driving. And the first this this is kind of where you know you're on the other side. And I had to do this twice. The first time I did that, I had to stop every 45 minutes and just mentally go, OK, I've got another 45 minutes. Go, go, go kind of thing. um And then I remember that three months later, I had to do the same car trip. and I was able to go the whole four hours. but I did do like a stop, think for a loose stop or something anyway, but I didn't feel like I needed to. So that was another thing I thought, wow, I remember when I wrote this, did this three months ago and I was dying and now I can actually do it. So it's something I don't think, like I'm always conscious to think, I think of it if I'm staying, sitting down too long, but it's not, it's probably more from the... you know, it's something you've gone through that was a bit traumatic and it's there versus it's, it's really affecting my life now. Yeah. And I would say that response, yes, four weeks is a significant turnaround to notice a meaningful difference. Um, I think you've probably had a really nice foundation to start with, like just your experience in the gym. And I know you said that, you know, looking back in hindsight, your hamstrings probably went up to scratch in terms of level of strength compared to the rest of the body, but there's still going to be some foundation there. I mean, compared to the general population, your level of strength is probably a lot higher, which means the responsiveness and your starting point, I guess, to the, the loading would be accelerated beyond, you know, what someone might be typical, even just an endurance runner who doesn't do strength training. You've probably had a better base to start with, which would make sense as to why that turnaround was so um good and you'll be able to push yourself quite hard without too many ramifications. And so I guess that would make sense on that end. um So with that four to six weeks of significant ah improvements, can you kind of put a finger on in terms of timelines intent when you considered to be, know, cured, healed, really turned a corner or like, you putting this whole PhD thing on the back burner? Yeah, probably it was, I think it was still four months all up. Like, so from the time I started to it not playing in my mind all the time was probably four months. And, and again, don't want to sound neurotic or anything, but it was, it's a really hard injury. I've obviously as an athlete and probably the part I miss was I used to be a kickboxer as well. So I'm used to getting injured and I'm used to having to train at quite a level and haven't obviously fought like that for many years. But um it was, I'm used to having injuries basically and I've never had anything like this before. Right. And so that was where it was something that just, you know, even as nothing you're like six weeks, that's if you break something or you do something, but you know, by that time you're going to kind of be okay. And so this is where this was so hard that six weeks, no, it's still freaking there before I done this training. uh But I think it was really, know I wasn't, it wasn't playing on my mind all the time after that four months. Like I don't know if it ever, as I said, I don't think it ever entirely goes away. I notice some days I'll just switch into, I'm in a meeting all day and so I'm not moving as much and getting up. And I'll notice then it will be a bit like not happy with me, but I think that's your body in general isn't happy if you've had to sit down in a chair for hours anyway. um But yeah, so I think if that four months mark was really by six months, know I definitely was it was like I hadn't really had it. And so that was mind blowing when I think of how bad I was to get to that point. And seriously, Brody, I'm not sure if I hadn't come across your staff and especially that pain one, because that really got me into a good mindset. This is going to hurt. but is it a four or a nine that I'm experiencing? That was really pivotal, I think, in terms of this journey. Yeah. If people want to look at that, you can just search in the podcast and look at pain scale. I think it's called pain scale one out of 10 or something like that in terms of the episode title for those who want to just quickly search it. uh What does like a maintenance thing look like if you say, okay, I feel like I've totally negotiated, maybe not completely, but um it's no longer a thought or an occurrence of this PhD stuff. What does the week by week training look like to kind of keep it at bay per se? Yeah, um, and probably the thing I try to avoid is sudden sprinting. Like, so I'm a bit more conscious of the things that got me into this play. And I haven't gone back to pickleball, by the way. So maybe that's something I've got to tackle. And because I really think that those two in combo aggravate it. But I know my hamstrings are way stronger now. So it'd be interesting to pick a ball and see how I feel afterwards. I'm just curious on that front. m Probably in terms of training, I think I've also changed my training profile in the last um six months anyway. And partly that's, you know, going through that um and the learning, probably now that I'm lifting heavier weights than I was when previously, I'm doing more recovery. So I think when I was lifting lighter weights and things like that, would probably, and I wasn't giving myself enough rest, I think, in all honesty. So now I'm trying to give myself more rest between, um I'll do like three, definitely three kind of heavy-ish days a week um and then light-ish things in between. I'm always, every day I've got some form of movement. So whether it be for walking or dancing or um something, but. supplementing that with three to four, three heavier weight sessions and a fourth in there. That's so that's probably what's changed and definitely pushing myself to just try like for example recently we got this as I said we got this all this new equipment at my gym and it's stuff I've never seen before. Like they're they're getting smarter with all of it. This is an Italian mob and so which suits my trader I think so. Because he's like oh they're going to my country. But this is a really cool equipment in there. So I'm kind of, it's always fun when you're kind of learning completely new things again. And they've got, I've never seen like a full hip thrust machine that's automated. And it's kind of really nice because you don't have to set up all your weights and the bar and all of that type of stuff and have something that's a decent, still feels decent. You're not cramped in because you're a nearly six foot person. So that's been kind of really cool. And I think that I've also, cause I'm doing hits more dancing, I'm trying to do different exercise to support that like calves, for example, I've never done calves. I've been terrible with calves. So trying to do a bit more cause I can see my calves are getting a bit tweaky now. So trying to do that and get a bit more stronger then. Excellent. And just finally, as we wrap this up, any final takeaways that we may not have yet discussed or maybe something you want to repeat if it relates to people who was really struggling with PhD and. Yeah. Look, I think obviously I've said a lot about, you know, the pain scale was one key thing and having, as you said, a reasonable background in this space, you think then I'd be able to kind of navigate this on my own, but there's always new research coming out in these issues. Like I think, you know, they're doing different studies and as I said, that athletic, I'll find that what the podcast is I was talking about, Brody, and you can share that. that's helpful because it's definitely yeah it was it was the only other one i've really seen that's kind of had similar things to yours um and but i think what's been the the blessing as i said if you can kind of and you don't want to sound like polyanna or any of the things because that during when you're going through this stuff it sucks but there's there is always some silver lining with these things and whether that be you stop doing something you shouldn't be doing um or whether that's for my case, it was you think that my technique would be pretty good, but you know, I was getting to a plateau and so having to really being forced back to basics and really have my technique critiqued and all the rest of it. And so now on the other side of that, I've been able to lift more heavily and, with confidence and that back pain, like I've eliminated my back pain, which I've had for years. So this kind of hidden blessing was I don't think I would have fixed that if I hadn't have got this PhD in injury and still kind of thought back pain was the norm because I'm tall and you know rounded shoulders that I think so I'm saying like I don't think this is on video either is it Rodie? people probably think I'm so big, ogre, but I'm not totally hunchback or anything like that so it's but if I basically you know wouldn't have corrected those things. So there's something good that comes out of these terrible situations. But I think you've just got to get informed. Find the people who support you on this journey and get that you're not just being paranoid or all the rest of it. And, you know, especially in my case where I had a fair idea. So, hey, there's something not right. um And do what's feeling right for yourself. And if it's not working, pivot and find somebody else or something that will gets you on the right path. And knowing that it might take a while though, as you said, Brody, it could take, if it took me four weeks to see change, it might take somebody else three weeks or six weeks, but stick with something and see it. And then if that's not working, then go for the next, but don't just give up because these things can be resolved is the key. And I remember thinking at one point, gosh, I think I'm going to be dealing with this for the rest of my life. And people had actually said that to me as well. And I'm like, no, so you're getting depressed and you're hearing that and you're seeing all those forums and think, oh God, and then the next day you wake up and think, okay, it's another day, let's go. But yeah, it's usually you can get over any of these things. It's just finding the thing that works for you. Well done. Good takeaway message. And I want to thank you for reaching out to me as well, because, you know, initially this was all set up by you just email me saying, hey, thanks for all. all your information, this is how it's helped me. And then it set up this interview. So I appreciate you reaching out and sharing those successes and those wins that you've had and anyone else who's listening who may have similar experiences, feel free to reach out and coming on and sharing a story of bringing the energy definitely in this interview and also sharing your wisdom, which has a PT lens as well as a good PhD success story lens as well. that all the combination of things has led to a very engaging and informative. conversation. thanks for coming on to chairing. Thank you. Because as I said, you were so pivotal in this journey. And I think it's amazing all the content that you have provided just from online that's there and based on your journey and what you've since done helping people. And that's not always shared, right? Like people, you could have the attitude of, oh, this is all behind my private wall and my practice and stuff. But I think what you're doing, the irony was Brody, I'd got injured again, I was like, right, I'm going to try and see Brody remotely. So it didn't work. m It was kind of, it was really pivotal. And I think what you're doing and your knowledge and how you research, like I've since then continued listening to your podcast, how you research everything and play it down and, and give examples, I think is fantastic. So thank you for all the stuff that, and the, what you put into this as well, because I know it's not easy. You're very welcome. If you are looking for more PhD resources, then check out my website link in the show notes. There you will find my free PhD 5-day course, other online content and ways you can personally connect with me, including a free 20-minute injury chat to discuss your current rehab and any tweaks you might need to make. Well done for taking an active role in your rehab by listening to content like this, and together we can start ticking off all of your rehab goals and finally overcome P H T