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Social Justice - A Conversation
Announcer 0:00
You're listening to local programming produced in KU NV studios. The content
Wesley Knight 0:06
of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 jazz and more the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.
Charles Stanton 0:18
Good evening. This is Professor Charles Stanton, I'm a professor of Boyd School of Law,
Blanca Pena 0:23
and my name is Blanca Pena. I am a third year law student at the Boyd School of
Charles Stanton 0:26
Law, and this is Social Justice a conversation, a conversation. Well, good evening, everybody, and welcome back, Professor Charles here with my partner, Blanca Pena, hope hope you were all well, it's good to have you with us tonight, and we're going to get into sort of a continuation, unfortunately, of what we were talking about in our last program, which, you know, at this point should seem completely unnecessary, but we have to speak about it again. And it's again the Jeffrey Epstein thing these documents that the Congress apparently voted to have released. But as we, as we too, would say, and probably many of you out there listening, would say, it's not going to be that easy. So what we're having now, what we're having now is a situation where a whole bunch of investigations have been brought against people who were Democrats, who were supposedly involved with Jeffrey Epstein. Okay, and that may well have been true, that there were a number of Democrats involved with Jeffrey Epstein, I'm sure there were. But the problem that we have now, unfortunately, is the Justice Department is using this as an excuse to basically say they cannot release any of these documents because they're doing an ongoing investigation. So we can imagine how long that is going to take, and I think it will be sometime, maybe, if ever, that we truly get the full story as to actually what went on. And the other thing that that really blows my mind, though, and really, it really angers me, is how they say, well, we want to keep that information confidential, because we're trying to protect all these victims who were harmed. If all the victims who were harmed were protected as they should have been by the justice system, we wouldn't be here in the situation we're in right now. It is so totally fake, false and hypocritical. Anybody who believes that the people who are in the Justice Department really care about these victims, you're suffering from delusion,
Blanca Pena 2:55
totally and even as someone who's more Democrat leaning, even if those files are full of names that are Democrat. I don't care. Release them all. Unlike the other side, I don't idolize politicians. It's like, even as soon as Mamdani was elected, I saw a lot of people say like, Okay, now that he's elected, now it's time to hold them accountable, and that's how I think we should be treating politicians, not like celebrities, not like gods, not like they are perfect and can do no wrong, and that is exactly how they treat Trump. And I think the reason why is because he is a big baby. I don't know if you saw how Trump responded to that reporter that was asking him questions. I think they were in a plane, and she and he said, quiet piggy, something like that, and and then the press confronted Caroline Levitt about it afterwards, and she just started saying, like, you know, thanks to Trump being so transparent, and He's so honest like that is why the American people re elected him, because they like him so much. It's like they are puffing him up at any chance that they can, and that's just because he demands it. And when it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein files, I mean, at this point, it's just so ridiculous. I thought it was a hoax. That's what they said, right? That's what Trump was saying for so long. It was a hoax, but now all of a sudden, it's a social security risk or a national security risk. That is not what is it? It has to be one or the other. You can't have your cake and you can't eat it too. It's so ridiculous how much they're going back and forth on this now that they are going to supposedly release it, they have to redact a few names. It's like, Give me a break. It's why can't we have a serious system? And it feels like every day in this country, with these people in power, every sore or any hint of legitimacy I thought we had is eroding, and it's crippling down little by little, and no one is doing anything to stop it. It's like there's nothing that. It can really be done unless people are ready to actually hold him accountable. And we saw what happened with the 34 felonies. We saw what happened with the Supreme Court essentially granting him immunity. Where is the line? Where is it going to be drawn? I'm so frustrated having to watch, and being forced to only be able to watch because it's not like I can walk into the White House right now and do something about it, you know. So yeah, and I wish people just believed women more. I wish people just took victims seriously the first time, the amount of times that they've had to give speeches to people out themselves, like even telling one person that you were abused takes a lot of strength and courage. Now, imagine having to put yourself out there to the entire country multiple times, having to fight people essentially telling you that they don't believe you. It's like people are so rotten, and I wish they took these people seriously the first time, truly.
Charles Stanton 6:03
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a few things. First of all, I think our government has totally failed in being transparent. But I think that goes way beyond just Jeffrey Epstein, or these particular kind of cases, I think the people of our country unless, unless it's something that is a a state secret, in other words, a military secret or a security secret regarding the protection of the country, I think everything else should be On the table. I don't believe in any of these closed hearings, or all this different stuff that goes on in the Congress, where everybody knows the truth and everybody knows what's going on, except the 350 million people who live here. And this, this, this is the one that this is one of the major problems, the other problem that you have, as you said so eloquently, is the fact that women have to go to a gauntlet to actually get their story to be believed. And this is this has been a systematic problem. It goes back many, many, many years, but it's but it's gotten worse now I think, I don't, I don't think the society, I don't think the society is a welcoming place for a person who's been abused or harmed. I think that it's exactly the opposite. So when women who have who have been mistreated and harmed, see how other women have been treated, it's it's an enormous disincentive, basically, not to say anything, because either number one, you'll not be believed. Number two, you'll be considered the aggressor or the liar, or you're making it up, or something like that. And we've seen from from the time of Anita Hill to Dr blasey Ford to so many of the women who are part of this huge trafficking operation that Jeffrey Epstein was running, and you can see how much pain these people are carrying, the pain not merely of the abuse and the remnants of The abuse, but just how society is viewing them. All this stuff should be out, as you say correctly. There's no, there's no secret on this. It doesn't matter who the person was, what party they were, yeah, stuff, they're accused of something, that's it. And then the legal process is supposed to take over. That's, that's the bottom line.
Blanca Pena 9:01
Yeah, yeah. And to your point about all of the victim blaming, I was actually thinking about this yesterday, about how society, especially Hollywood, paints human trafficking to be a certain thing. Like, I don't know if you've ever seen those films that portray human trafficking or even books, right? It's narrated in such a way that is inherently racist, first of all, but it also paints a picture of this, like, truly evil, like, I don't know, like a basement full of evil, villainous men who are just grabbing women off the streets and kidnapping them and like sending them out in boxes to other states, right? Like they paint it in such a way where they make it so people expect human trafficking to look a particular in a particular way, right? But it's like when you talk about how what happened in the island, and when you think about what. Epstein actually did. He was grooming these young women when they were so young, and it's like he used their vulnerabilities against them. They were in need of resources, stability, financial resources, financial resources, any sort of like moral emotional support. He grabbed onto those and then slowly groomed them to the point where they felt they had to do certain things for him, and so human trafficking in that regard, did not mirror what you see on movies, on TV and books, because it was totally different. And I think when you present that kind of case to a broader audience, like the entire United States of America, a lot of people are quick to blame the victims and say, like, well, you clearly wanted this, like you were having so much fun. And it's like, no, that's not how that works, and Hollywood is not reality. And I think if we even want to think deeper than that, like, I think it's, it's, I'll start by saying, I do not think every Hollywood producer director is totally, completely evil. I also don't think there's always some hidden plan underneath, but I do think it is strategic of certain directors and producers to paint human trafficking in a certain way because it helps their buddies get away with things. And that's kind of how we're seeing it. Yeah. It's just,
Charles Stanton 11:20
yeah, yeah. I think, I think that I wasn't going to get into Hollywood, but I'll get into it. Now. Get into it. I'm going to get into it. Go ahead. Hollywood is, is basically totally corrupt, I mean. And you know, people say, Well, that's a harsh statement to make. Just take Harvey Weinstein as one example. This guy was doing horrific things for decades. There were a group of people who knew Harvey Weinstein that knew everything about his way of life and all the people he harmed. He ruined and destroyed the lives of countless women, the careers of countless women, and as long as he made movies that made money, and as long as people looked the other way when he was committing these crimes. Everything was good. The she said movie, it's always the movie that I end up to my class with for the years that I've been teaching. It is more than an indictment of Harvey Weinstein or his friends, or the producers or even actors. It's the whole it's the whole system of how Hollywood works. It's the degradation of women. It's the exploitation of women. It's a warped fantasy that these enabled people, entitled people have, that women can be used and women can be exploited and women can be debased, and in that world, it's normal. And when we're talking about, you know, Jeffrey Epstein and all the things that he did. I mean, look at how much longer Harvey Weinstein was doing it. He was, we're going back many decades now, and he had this, he had this huge company. And, you know, everything was good. And I say to myself, well, if you're in if you're a hep person, if you're in the know about what's going on, actor, actress, whatever you are, I find it hard to believe that there weren't a whole ton of people who knew pretty much exactly what was going on. And I can, I'll try to tie that into Jeffrey Epstein, because people, a lot of these people, say, Well, I didn't, I didn't molest anybody, I didn't abuse anybody as like a total defense. But if you went to visit somebody's home, if you went on somebody's airplane, if you went to some island, and you see all these unattached young people, a lot of times, children, and they're not with any adults, and they're in this private island with this man. Then what would you think would be going on? And then, if you, if your summation, if your your your read on, it would be that, you know, there were things going on here that were improper, and you had suspicions that that it was improper, then it was your duty and your obligation to get in touch with law enforcement, Justice Department, whoever they were, and say, Listen, you know, I know this guy, but there's a lot of very bizarre stuff that I think you need to look into. But because everybody wants. To be friends with everybody, and it's a clique of people, and it's its own society, of people who are enabled. They they are okay with it. Think of what think of what the President said. Think of what the President said, not what I said, not what somebody's opinion is when he was asked about Jeffrey Epstein. What did he say? He said, You know, he's a great guy and everything, and basically he likes them young. Okay, so you're hanging out with this guy for 15 years, wouldn't you think something was completely off if you consistently saw this man with basically children he knew, you know, he knew, yeah. But then the question is, then, the question is, then, isn't that a crime in itself? Though, if you knew that all these terrible things were going on, wouldn't you? Wouldn't there be some I don't even want to talk about the law. I'm just want to talk about basic human decency. Wouldn't you think, wow, you know, there's something not right here. These children could be harmed. What is my obligation as a human being, as a person who's supposed to have compassion and understanding to inform people, to try to get to the bottom of this, and you don't see that, right? You know,
Blanca Pena 16:32
I think, and I don't think people are really ready to talk about this, in my opinion, but I think most of our problems and a lot of that human flaw, or just the willingness to either tolerate or to inflict evil, right like I think a lot of that comes from that top 1% because they have all the liberty and freedom to do what they please, and they can be as secretive as possible. I mean, we talk about Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein, because these are things that have come out by now, right? But I can't even imagine what is currently going on at this moment that we have yet to find out about, you know, and it's, it's, it's something that's well known, I think. I mean, I've seen even comedians during their stand ups and things like that. Even make jokes about it specifically. I don't know if you know Ricky Gervais and Nikki Glaser. They both like, hosted the Golden Globes a few years ago separately, and they both made those jokes of like, you know, we're probably gonna look back on this award show one day and be like, oh, you know that guy's in jail now, right? But it's, it's funny, but it's, it's true. And I mean, with Diddy too, when that stuff came out, but it's like, I mean, and I'll mention Chris Brown again, because it's like, he's another example of someone who did terrible things, got exposed for it, and is still living life like absolutely nothing's going wrong. And it just makes me sick, because the people in the top 1% have so much resources, and they have the ability to really make an impact on the world, right? And they choose every single day to not do anything about it like that, just that kind of stuff. Just makes me so sick. I cannot imagine having money for generations and doing nothing to help it. I don't get it. I really don't
Charles Stanton 18:32
I well, I think I said this last time, but the society us, this is our society. There's become an acceptance, even though people might not come out and say it of disturbed, harmful, evil behavior. In the case of Diddy, I didn't know that much about him. I knew he was, he was a music impresario. You know, he had a liquor company. He did all these things to be that, even as a man, as a human being, when I saw what he did in that hotel, horrible. That's a disqualifier to me. There's no, there's no excuse. There's, there's, it's, it's, it's done. You're done. He's horrible, you're done. And and the problem is, the problem is that the standards of society and the way people behave and the lack of respect and basically accepting things that are so wrong is where we're at. I'll give you, I'll give you an example of this, although it has nothing to do with abuse. A number of months ago, they had a roast of Tom Brady.
Blanca Pena 19:56
I saw that the other day while I was cooking. Okay,
Charles Stanton 19:59
well. Well, I was just, I was just watching that, and I was saying to myself, there's something really wrong here. I mean that you can roast people, and you can say, you know, things that you know were might be slightly risque and but funny. At the same time, they were saying stuff that was like off the table,
Blanca Pena 20:21
what were you most?
Charles Stanton 20:23
Just crude, inappropriate. And I wondered. I wondered, and I don't, I don't know him as a person. I know of his greatness as an athlete. I can imagine what you must be thinking, though, if you're sitting there and you know, you know these people, and you know they're gonna, you know, make fun of your faults and everything, but it was like, it was like vicious though. It was like, it was like an un it was like, like something that had no boundaries. And I was watching him, and I just said, you know? I said that's like a warning to people like, don't even think about even ever doing something like that again. Because if they could talk about somebody like this, what's, what's, what's left? Yeah, what boundaries are there that? See, I think that's the problem, though, too. Yeah,
Blanca Pena 21:22
it was brutal, for sure. I found it, I mean, a little amusing. I mean, the the jokes that I remember by this point now, it was a lot of Giselle leaving him and then possibly, like, cheating on him with the jujitsu teacher or something like that. But I don't know. I mean, I think, and I don't know, right? Because I'm not a person like Tom Brady, right? I don't have all this money, and I'm not famous and stuff. But, like, I would like to think that if I put myself in that situation like I would, I would be all right, just because I can go back home to my mansion and my millions of dollars and stuff like that. It goes back to what I was kind of saying earlier, about how, like, most of our problems do come from these rich people. So sometimes it just it's hard for me to look at them and feel bad, in a way, because the other day I don't go shopping often, like I, I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've gone to the mall and, like, actually bought stuff, I still have clothes from high school that I wear. I don't do that often. And the other day I went into H M, which is a pretty, like, kind of affordable place that you can go to, and I think I spent, like, in total pair of shoes and a few, like, shirts and like slacks and stuff, like, around $200 right? That hurt me, professor, like it hurt to pay that much money. Like it hurt my soul. And because, and it's like $200 but it hurt me because I'm not rich, and I just to think and to kind of, you know, think about these rich people who $200 to them is nothing like if you were to $200 to Elon Musk is less than 1% of his entire, like, wealth, you know, and so I just, you know, the media does this where they blame, for example, the homeless immigrants, like, like everyday, common people, Right? Who, you know might use federal benefits or anything like that, but it's like, I'm an immigrant, right? And I don't make a lot of money, but for some reason, there are people out there who blame me for their issues, and not not specifically me, but people like me. And it's like, Do you not see that the reason why the cost of everything is because the rich people are buying everything up, and they're making everything unattainable for you because it benefits them, like it's not the person who is sleeping on the sidewalk. I promise you that that is not the person who is causing your issues. And so when we talk about Tom Brady, I mean, sure, the roast was brutal, but you know what? If that is, if that is one of the worst moments of his life, I think he has a pretty good life, in my opinion.
Charles Stanton 24:09
No, what I, what I meant, what I, what I was saying about it, yeah, yeah, was that's so much, you know, I think, I think there's a boundary. In other words, like, in other words, like, I think a person's I think a person's personal life, whether it's a marital life or something, I think that's off the table, that's nobody's business, that's a pro, that's a private thing between the person and his ex wife is brought into it. She wasn't part of that ceremony. She was she was a person who had been with him, yeah, and that's between them. It's really not well, that's but of course, that's our society. Now. Everything is the media, social you know, social media and who was with? Who? Whose business is it involved? Nourse, What business is it in mind to know who he's with or who he's not with, or who he's going to be with, but, but I think what, I think what you were saying, has great validity, though, as far as as who's to blame, you know, I mentioned, you know, when we were off the air, how they had this huge dinner for the head of Saudi Arabia. And it's exactly those people right who have business dealings with Saudi Arabia, and it's glorified, but the people who are poor and the people who are needy and the people who are supposed to be the object of our concern are demonized. So it's everything is upside down. Everything is upside down. And that's why, and that's why these things we were talking about at the beginning of the broadcast, that's why they go on, yeah, because the society itself is cratering. Yeah.
Blanca Pena 25:55
And there's this, like, selective empathy. There's selective, like, willingness to tolerate certain people but not others. It's, it's very unbalanced and unequal. And unfortunately, the people that benefit the most from these kinds of things are the rich men, sometimes rich women as well, like you never know, but it's usually, you know, I think class definitely sets you up in a way where it affects everything in your life. And if you're just up there, you get to get away with a lot of things. I mean, I was even reading about how, like black men, especially, you know, in the 80s and 90s, getting years in jail over drug related things, you know, just because they were doing drugs. And obviously, you know, don't do drugs, right? Like, don't get yourself involved, right? But it's like, You mean to tell me that a poor black man got more years in jail than did he you know? You mean to tell me that someone who ran an entire drug trafficking Island got off easier than the guy who was just shooting up meth like, I think those are two very different things. And if you're causing so much pain onto a mass group of people, you should definitely get more punishment. But because they're rich, they get away with it, and the poor people have to always eat the just eat it, you
Charles Stanton 27:18
know. Well, it's, a, it's a, it's a lack of conscience, though, I think, and I think, you know, I look at it, I look at it in this way. I look at it that regardless of how much money you have or don't have, there has to you. There has to be something in you, hopefully, that cares about other people. And if you've been blessed to be wealthy, then there's also an obligation to try to use that money wisely, to look out for other people, to do to try to do some good. I always bring up Jeff Bezos wife is just the perfect example of that, and how she's funding a lot of the black universities and everything, yeah, but at least, at least give it some thought. At least move outside of yourself. You cannot be a full human being. If it's just about you, it has to be about more than you.
Blanca Pena 28:17
Yeah, people are so out of touch. But, you know, trying to end on a more positive note, the holidays are coming up. You know, wealth comes in different ways. And I think the most valuable form of wealth, in my opinion, is having good people around you, good quality time spending time. I know some like the holidays look different for different kinds of people. And I just hope that wherever you are in life and whoever you're spending this time with, I hope everyone enjoys their Thanksgiving, their Christmas, their New Year's, wishing everyone a very bright and happy future.
Charles Stanton 28:52
Well, I can, I can only second that, and it's been a great privilege for the both of us to come into your homes, and we hope that you remain safe and keep the faith. God bless and good night.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai