In the News: Government Shutdowns

Aughie and Nia discuss the outcomes of government shutdowns.

What is Civil Discourse?

This podcast uses government documents to illuminate the workings of the American government, and offer context around the effects of government agencies in your everyday life.

Welcome to Civil Discourse. This podcast will use government documents to illuminate the workings of
the American Government and offer contexts around the effects of government agencies in your
everyday life. Now your hosts, Nia Rodgers, Public Affairs Librarian and Dr. John Aughenbaugh, Political
Science Professor.
N. Rodgers: Hi Aughie.
J. Aughenbaugh: Good morning Nia. How are you?
N. Rodgers: I'm good because I have a new slogan that I'm going to introduce.
J. Aughenbaugh: What's the new slogan?
N. Rodgers: Shut it down, shut it down except I'm going to introduce don't shut it down, don't shut it
down. I think it's a terrible idea.
J. Aughenbaugh: See, I was going to go ahead and start off today's episode by saying, I'm sorry Nia I'm
not going to record..
N. Rodgers: I can't engage with you today.
J. Aughenbaugh: Much like the federal government.
N. Rodgers: You are shutdown.
J. Aughenbaugh: I'm shutting down. Listeners if you've not figured out listeners today's podcast episode
is going to be one of our in the news episodes because of a specific political event happening in the
United States, more than likely just within a couple days of us recording this episode.
N. Rodgers: The thing is if it doesn't shut down just keep this episode for later because it'll happen
again. Aughie is going to tell you how often this happens. He titled his notes, by the way yet another
government shutdown because he's Gen X and he's cynical. Even though we're actually a day ahead of it
he's already assuming it's going to shut down. If it doesn't happen now.
J. Aughenbaugh: If it doesn't happen this year just hold on, just bookmark this episode because the next
time, the federal government is about ready to shutdown and you want a brief explanation of what's
going to go on and what might be the potential effects of the shutdown. Just pull this up and listen.
N. Rodgers: Yeah, because it's always the same.
J. Aughenbaugh: It's always the same.
N. Rodgers: It's not that everybody wants to go on vacation.
J. Aughenbaugh: No.
N. Rodgers: It would be lovely. But no.
J. Aughenbaugh: No, this isn't paid vacation. This isn't a long planned summer vacation or fall vacation.
N. Rodgers: What do you do on your summer vacation? I'll shut down the government and it never
shuts down in the summer.
J. Aughenbaugh: No, it always shuts down in early fall.
N. Rodgers: Because that's when the fiscal year of the government. The government's fiscal year is not
like anybody else's fiscal year, it's October 1 to September 30.
J. Aughenbaugh: That's right.
N. Rodgers: That's generally and what they when they have what they call stopgap bills they add months
to that. But generally speaking the fiscal year does not change.
J. Aughenbaugh: This is one of the remarkable things about the United States Congress not passing a
budget. It's not like they don't know.
N. Rodgers: That October 1st is coming.
J. Aughenbaugh: The due date, right?
N. Rodgers: Right. It's not a surprise. We're going to have an October every year until the sun explodes.
J. Aughenbaugh: This was written into federal law in 1974. They know this because Congress wrote the
law, we all know this it's October 1st. What is the government shut down? Nia when the government
shuts down it effect the federal government ceases operations that are deemed non essential. Now with
that definition Nia almost the first thing we have to explore is who or what is essential versus non
essential.
N. Rodgers: I'm going to put to you that the people at the National Zoo who feed the lions are essential
because I don't think we want the lions to not be fed. I'm just saying that that's not going to be good for
the other animals at the zoo and anybody who's walking by. I'm voting that those people are deeply
essential.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes. Now as a book lover I basically think that everybody who works at the library of
Congress is essential, but alas I feel fairly certain.
N. Rodgers: It'll shut down because the rest of everybody know.
J. Aughenbaugh: By the way this is one of the truly remarkable things about United States Federal
Government shutdowns, who gets to decide who or what is essential? Is determined by the agencies.
N. Rodgers: By each agency within itself.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah, not the United States Congress.
N. Rodgers: The Congress says shut down but basically what they're saying to agencies is shut down
mostly.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes, we'll leave it for you.
N. Rodgers: To figure out the logistics.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah, figure it out.
N. Rodgers: You can't be bothered.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes, and basically the shutdown occurs because as we've mentioned a few moments
ago, legislators can not finish the budget process.
N. Rodgers: Yes, see our first set of episodes where we talked about passing a bill?
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes, passing a budget.
N. Rodgers: Passing a budget sorry.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah, but you got to pass a bill. In fact, the budgets actually comprised of 10-12
appropriations. There's a good reason why they break it up into 10-12 because if it was one big massive
appropriations bill, that would be even more incentive for the United States Congress to not pass the
budget on time.
N. Rodgers: It would be even less transparent than it currently is if that's even possible.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes, now we make jokes about this but nevertheless as we discussed in those podcast
episodes, crafting the federal government budget typically takes a year and a half. From when the
executive branch specifically the office of management and budget starts the process until Congress is
supposed to pass the budget, takes about a year and a half. Why is it happening right now Nia? Why is
the federal government on the cusp at the time we're recording about ready to shut down?
N. Rodgers: I have to imagine that it has something to do with partisan politics, but only because that is
my answer to everything that is not the commerce clause. There are two fundamental forces at work in
American politics, the commerce clause and partisan politics.
J. Aughenbaugh: If we were talking about executive branch agencies Nia would go ahead and say let me
guess, the agency was acting arbitrarily, incompletely.
N. Rodgers: Yes.
J. Aughenbaugh: But you are correct and more specifically what's really unusual about this particular
government shutdown is that, it's not all of one political party. It's about 20 hardcore Republicans in the
House of Representatives who want severe budget cuts.
N. Rodgers: They have the power to get the speaker to try to give it to them because the speaker is one
vote away from not being the speaker.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: Because of the way they agreed to him being speaker, he agreed to allow them to bring a
floor vote at any time by any member to boot him out of his job.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: There's a lot of people said there would be carry on drama from that and this is one of the
carry on dramas [inaudible] .
J. Aughenbaugh: In the speaker that we're referencing is Speaker McCarthy, a Republican member of
the house from the state of California. We know one of the deals he had to make to become speaker
was that, any member of his caucus could go ahead and call for a vote to oust him a speaker.
N. Rodgers: Including the nutty ones.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: There's no rule about who can ask for that it can be anybody who can ask for that. Now
there's own political problem if you ask for that, so there's a whole separate issue and that has nothing
to do with shutdown. But those 20 people have some leverage in order to not go along to get along the
way other people are doing. The Senate passed something that says, "Here look a stopgap short term."
J. Aughenbaugh: The Senate's hands are not completely clean here, because the House has actually
already approved a number of appropriations bills.
N. Rodgers: But the Senate doesn't like them.
J. Aughenbaugh: Senate doesn't like them, so the Senate hasn't even taken a vote on any of them.
N. Rodgers: A reminder the House is controlled by Republicans and the Senate is controlled by the
Democrat, hence our discussion of partisan politics.
J. Aughenbaugh: That's right. But at least the Senate did what you mentioned Nia, this week the Senate
did pass a stopgap funding bill to keep the federal government open through the middle of November
which in effect, would give the House and the Senate six weeks to go ahead and craft a budget. Which
by the way a budget that's supposed to start on October 1st, right?
N. Rodgers: Right.
J. Aughenbaugh: I got to admit every time I see these kinds of machinations go on I'm like, wow I would
love to be able to go ahead and say to the bank that owns my mortgage, hey could I have an additional
six weeks? By the way can I negotiate in those six weeks to go ahead and pay my mortgage for the
previous month?
N. Rodgers: The company would go, no you're late and now you have a late fee. How many times has
the government shut down?
J. Aughenbaugh: This is what's remarkable, this is why we joked at the beginning of the episode.
N. Rodgers: Just wait another one will come around.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah, just wait another year another one will come down since 1980. We are talking
about 42 years, and the reason why I say 42 is we're in 2023 so we don't know we are projecting that
shutdown will occur.
N. Rodgers: We are projecting that it will be one more.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes. But in 42 years we've had 14 shutdowns which basically means, on average every
three years we have a shutdown.
N. Rodgers: That's crazy. But it is why we tell you that you can hold this episode and come back. When
there is a government shutdown?
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: There are two kinds of spending in the government, right?
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: There's required spending and then there's whatever you feel like spending.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. The first category is called mandatory, the second is called discretionary.
Mandatory spending items have increased so much that roughly 73% of the federal government's
budget is mandatory spending. So even when the government shuts down, a mandatory spending item
like social security checks still gets sent out.
N. Rodgers: Is there a person to send those out?
J. Aughenbaugh: Well, it's done by computers now.
N. Rodgers: Its all electronic transfer.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. Another mandatory spending item, buying supplies and using supplies in the
military. During a government shutdownN. Rodgers: No votes for you. You're going to need to conserve the ones you have.
J. Aughenbaugh: We don't tell you The Air Force, sorry, stop buying gas for the fighter jets. So 27% of
the budget is what is at issue? Discretionary spending.
N. Rodgers: So roughly a quarter of the budget.
J. Aughenbaugh: A quarter of the budget is where the debate is about.
N. Rodgers: The budget is roughly how much?
J. Aughenbaugh: What is it? Six trillion dollars, six trillion.
N. Rodgers: With a /tr/ at the front. So we're talking about thinking about roughly $1.5 trillion of
spending will get stopped.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: Generally speaking, that money won't get spent, and I assume that a lot of that money is
salary.
J. Aughenbaugh: That is correct. Let's talk about the effects of the shutdown, Nia. Almost immediately,
more than two million civilian Federal government employees will be furloughed or they will have to
keep on working without pay because they are considered essential.
N. Rodgers: The government can do that. Unlike a private employer, who cannot, in fact, force you to
work when you are not being paid. That enters into slavery territory and it's illegal in this country.
J. Aughenbaugh: That's prohibited by the 13th Amendment.
N. Rodgers: The federal government can say you're essential and you have to come in, person who
feeds the lions at the zoo, regardless of whether you're getting paid or not.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: I imagine there are carry on effects to that.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. Because usually what happens with essential workers, the ones that are forced
to continue to work without pay, they put up with it for usually a couple days, maybe a week or so, but
then there are morale plummets so much that they start calling in sick.
N. Rodgers: Or they have to go find a temporary job that's bringing in pay. I'm not going to overshare my
financial status with our listeners. I could not live very long without a paycheck like I need. I,
unfortunately, am one of many Americans that live more or less paycheck to paycheck.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes. And according to surveys, most federal government employees are like most
Americans, they could deal with not getting one paycheck, possibly two.
N. Rodgers: But after that.
J. Aughenbaugh: After that, now you're talking about having to make really tough decisions about rent
and mortgage.
N. Rodgers: What are you going to pay, what or you not going to pay?
J. Aughenbaugh: Whether or not you make your car payment, whether or not you pay your kids tuition
bill. Do you tell creditors, hospitals, insurance companies. Hey, I'm sorry.
N. Rodgers: I don't have the money.
J. Aughenbaugh: I don't have the money because I work for the federal government.
N. Rodgers: Probably some of those lenders and or institutions work with people. They probably say, I
think you're going to get paid again, and we're going to just work it out, but probably some are like,
that's too bad. Then your car gets repossessed or your house gets whatever.
J. Aughenbaugh: You're defaulting.
N. Rodgers: So far, the longest shutdown was?
J. Aughenbaugh: The most recent, 2018 2019 and it was 34 days.
N. Rodgers: That's a month.
J. Aughenbaugh: That's a month.
N. Rodgers: That's a month, that's a long time. I have to admit, if I were furloughed, I don't know how
anxious I would be to get back to work. During a furlough, if I wasn't getting paid, I'd be like, really? You
want me to work without getting paid? That doesn't seem fair.
J. Aughenbaugh: No.
N. Rodgers: So I would struggle with that. Now, does the military get effected?
J. Aughenbaugh: Military personnel are considered essential. They have to stay on the job. National
Security.
N. Rodgers: Makes sense.
J. Aughenbaugh: In terms of employees.
N. Rodgers: What about our olds. Sorry.
J. Aughenbaugh: We're just talking about employment and contracts. You've got to remember, folks,
the federal government, does a lot of its work by hiring private sector firms on contracts. All of those
folks risk not getting paid, which means many of those businesses will actually start laying off or having
their workers be furloughed.
N. Rodgers: Because if the company doesn't get paid by the federal government, then they can't pay
their employees. They are private employers and can't say, you have to work without getting paid.
J. Aughenbaugh: Paid. That's right.
N. Rodgers: Yeah, there's a whole carry on effect there.
J. Aughenbaugh: Then we're going to talk about the ripple effects in the economy in just a few
moments. The next effect, Nia, is government benefits.
N. Rodgers: Our olds will still get their social security checks. Because I'm assuming the person who has
to push the button on the computer to make that happen is considered essential control and will have
to go to work, the IT people who make that happen will have to go to work.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. And a lot of what goes on with social security and Medicare are computer
transfers of money.
N. Rodgers: Right.
J. Aughenbaugh: Once they go ahead and set up the programN. Rodgers: It can do on its own.
J. Aughenbaugh: On its own. But you have other programs. So for instance, the White House in
particular, to really, twist the knife in regards to the House, Republicans, the White House this week, the
Biden Administration, and I found this example in a number of press reports, so I wanted to go ahead
and mention it. Nia, you and I, in a previous podcast episode talked about WIC. It's the nutrition
program for women, infants, and children.
N. Rodgers: Women and people under the age of five.
J. Aughenbaugh: It provides federal funds for these people who are at nutritional risk.
N. Rodgers: If you've ever been to the grocery store, you have seen the tags on the shelf that say WIC,
and those are items like peanut butter. Those are items that are considered nutritionally sound and
you're able to buy them with WIC separately from buying other things.
J. Aughenbaugh: Those funds would be immediately cut off because it's considered discretionary
spending.
N. Rodgers: Who wants to feed infants and children anyway?
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. So almost immediately we're talking about seven million Americans who would
see their aid delayed.
N. Rodgers: That's terrifying.
J. Aughenbaugh: Again, if you're talking about people who definitely live paycheck to paycheck, this the
population that does. It's one of the reasons why the program exists. Remove food as one of the
variables in a poor person's life.
N. Rodgers: Right.
J. Aughenbaugh: That's the purpose of the program.
N. Rodgers: Right, so you can focus on paying other things with the small amount of income that you
have. I assume that SNAP would also be affected for the similar reason.
J. Aughenbaugh: SNAP is effective. But the way SNAP runs, they have enough money in reserve to
where they can probably withstand nearly a week, possibly 10 days.
N. Rodgers: It's not that much.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. But if the shutdown goes on beyond that, then the SNAP program also will have
to start telling recipients, no money goes on your SNAP card.
N. Rodgers: Is Section 8 similarly affected because it's another welfare program?
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes, it's a discretionary spending program. What Nia is referring to, listeners, is Section
8 housing vouchers that are used by families with low incomes, seniors, people with disabilities to
actually pay for their rent.
N. Rodgers: The government pays a portion and you pay a portion.
J. Aughenbaugh: Pay a portion, that's right.
N. Rodgers: You don't get free housing but the part of the cost is offset.
J. Aughenbaugh: Part of your household is defrayed. Some veterans benefits, again discretionary
spending. Listeners you're like, Aughie keeps on saying that, but remember the shutdown.
N. Rodgers: Is like it's discretionary.
J. Aughenbaugh: Discretionary spending, because mandatory spending by-law must continue even if
Congress has not passed a budget. But some veterans benefits like disability compensation, transition to
assistance programs, loans for farmers.
N. Rodgers: Right, because you have to go through the loan process. There'd be nobody to process it
because nobody's going to be around.
J. Aughenbaugh: Loans that are issued by the Small Business Administration.
N. Rodgers: Same thing.
J. Aughenbaugh: Which by the way the Department of Agriculture and the SBA, Small Business
Administration, has the most significant business loan portfolio in the United States. Far greater than
any private bank in the United States.
N. Rodgers: So all those little small businesses who run at the very edge of their margins will be in
danger.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: They probably could go a few days, but then you're talking about them having to lay off. I
think that the biggest carry on that we should mention before we wrap up our episode is that once the
government shuts down, like it's not just government employees that end up out of work. You have
contractors, you have small businesses. All these people who support or are supported by those federal
funds flowing through the system, they don't flow through the system anymore. Which by the way,
brings me to a point of panic that I would like to mention because it makes me anxious and it's in your
notes. I would like to bring it up. Which is the Federal Reserve can't see what's happening with the
economy because the people who report those numbers aren't essential.
J. Aughenbaugh: No, they're not considered essential.
N. Rodgers: To the running of the federal government. So the Fed will be running blind making
decisions. That's so scary, Aughie.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. The Fed is scheduled once again in October to meet to decide whether or not to
go ahead and keep interest rates the same, raise them, or lower them.
N. Rodgers: If they have no data?
J. Aughenbaugh: Then they can't go ahead and make that decision. I mean, that is truly scary. Nia, you
were talking about one of the other effects. I mean, there's two more effects I wanted to mention. One
is the economy. Nia, you and I have discussed on this podcast that the United States for roughly the last
two years has been in a condition known as inflation.
N. Rodgers: But we're coming in for a soft landing, Aughie.
J. Aughenbaugh: Well, that's what the Federal Reserve was attempting to do, was to go ahead and
decrease economic activity, but do it in such a way so that Americans would not lose their jobs, would
not lose confidence in the economy and stop spending.
N. Rodgers: And would not have massive inflation. If you think we have inflation now, it's because you
didn't look at the '70s.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. The Fed was trying to balance reining in inflation but not do it so drastically that
it would lead to the counter, the 180 degree different condition in the economy which is a recession. If
you really want it gets bad, it's a depression which is walking a fine line. But if a federal government
shutdown lasts longer than just a couple of days, remember the figure. You're talking about two million
federal civilian employees who won't get paid. They aren't spending money which means all the
businesses that rely on them to buy groceries, to go out to dinner, to buy gasoline, et cetera, those
businesses will see a decline in their revenues. Which means they may have to think about not giving
shifts to certain workers. We've already talked about government contractors.
N. Rodgers: Cutting the hours.
J. Aughenbaugh: We have I've already talked about government contractors.
N. Rodgers: But now we're just talking about regular workers in a restaurant. If you see your business
drop in a restaurant, you cut people's hours.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah, you cut peoples' hours.
N. Rodgers: You have to find the money somewhere to pay the rent.
J. Aughenbaugh: When those hours get cut for those workers, guess what they stop doing?
N. Rodgers: They stop buying.
J. Aughenbaugh: Stop spending money. That's the huge fear of a government shutdown that lasts longer
than just a couple days or a week. We get another one of the length of a month, 34 days, and there's
going to be a significant decline almost immediately in the American economy. I know many listeners
are like, I can't believe Aughie is mentioning this, because I don't have investments, but this will affect
investor confidence. Which means they will stop investing, which means they will hold onto their
money, which means many companies will then start recalibrating whether or not they build out a new
product line or they decide to go electrical, or they decide to do this, they will pull back. This leads to
recessionary conditions.
N. Rodgers: Not for nothing but October 1 we're going to need your student loan payments to start
again. If you are one of those workers that had your hours cut because there's nobody coming into the
restaurant to eat, you're not able to pay your student loans. Now, in good news there's nobody to come
after you because the Department of Education won't be working. But it's going to cause a huge snafu in
all of that because that's even less revenue that the government is taking. Aughie is right when he talks
about ripple effects. One of the things that he has in his notes, which I really want to mention to
listeners because I think it's important, the government will also stop buying certain things. We're going
to buy gas for jets because we're going to keep going for national security, but we're not going to buy
any more paper clips. You specifically mentioned paper clips and it made me laugh out loud because
people don't think of paper clips as any big deal. But think about it on the government scale of
purchasing paper clips. We're talking about trillions of paper clips that are used in staples and all that
kind of thing.
J. Aughenbaugh: Pens. Post-its.
N. Rodgers: These weird things that you just used to run an office.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: Not even aside from your Dell computers and you your desk furniture. Not even the big
stuff, but just the straight up little stuff of this is how we run a business. If you stop doing all of that, you
don't need to buy any of those things. Those companies have extra stock now, and have to either store
it or sell it cheaper and they lose money. It's a big ripple thing.
J. Aughenbaugh: Then those companies are not placing orders for delivery trucks to deliver those
supplies to federal agencies.
N. Rodgers: So they lay off their workers because, hey Bob, who makes the paper clips, sorry, we don't
need any more paper clips right now. I'm going to have to send you home.
J. Aughenbaugh: Then, Nia you just mentioned October 1st in the Department of Education.
N. Rodgers: Your last thing is?
J. Aughenbaugh: Government operation effects. Right? Okay.
N. Rodgers: They're going to be a few.
J. Aughenbaugh: The federal government runs a lot of services that require employees to respond to
inquiries from the affected citizenry. The Department of Education is a very good example. October 1st
is when a whole bunch of Americans with federally subsidized student loans were supposed to start
repaying them, because they haven't had to since the pandemic hit.
N. Rodgers: For the last three months the Department of Education, I am nervous because I have street
lines, they've been sending messages saying, contact us if you have any questions or problems or there's
any difficulty or you need help. They've been very proactive about saying contact us and giving phone
numbers and email addresses and all that other stuff, none of which will go answered after October 1st.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah because of previous government shutdowns or any indication, about 90% of the
Department of Education staff is considered non essential, which means they won't be coming to the
office.
N. Rodgers: They won't be there to answer these questions.
J. Aughenbaugh: I mean, there are other examples. The IRS.
N. Rodgers: Oh my gosh. Thanks goodness we're not in April. This did not have any liberal.
J. Aughenbaugh: This is not income tax season. Thank God, because otherwise.
N. Rodgers: We would have even more of a mess.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yeah. I mean, think about this.
N. Rodgers: My friends who are getting ready to travel during this travel season, please think about the
fact that when you go to an airport, TSA is our federal employees and they are probably not considered
essential, or if they are considered essential and it goes on more than a few days, they will start to call
out.
J. Aughenbaugh: They're working without pay. They're not going to be happy.
N. Rodgers: Exactly. Already crabby people are going to be even crabbier.
J. Aughenbaugh: That's right. We know this from previous shutdowns. Customer service of those federal
government employees who are considered essential, suffered. Absenteeism increased.
N. Rodgers: I mean, who can blame. One, even if what they do is they cut the workforce, so now you
don't have as many colleagues helping, so now your workload has increased, but you're not getting paid.
If that happened to me, I would struggle, I have to admit, I would struggle to find the interest to come to
work. That would be hard for me. I'm not saying that I blame that.
J. Aughenbaugh: By the way, also one other if you will, government operations effect that I think many
Americans need to be aware, if there is a government shutdown, most national parks and certain
museums will be closed or have extremely limited services.
N. Rodgers: Just as a side note, now is the time when the schools are taking all the students to various
museums for field trips. This is field trip season. Because now you've gotten them in school, they've
been there a few weeks, and it's time for a field trip. It's time for a reward. For having come to school
for the last few weeks, and listen to your teacher talk about algebra or whatever. Now we're going to
have a field trip. We're going to go to the Smithsonian. No, we're not. We're going to go to the National
Zoo. No, we're not. Because that just got more dangerous. I'm just saying that that's said, we're going to
go over to a park. No, we're not. What we say to wrap up, if you are planning on interacting with the
federal government in any way during a shutdown, you should go online and find out if the agency is still
operating. If you can actually go to whatever place it is that needs to be done. If you want to go to a
national park, make sure the park is open and make sure that it's fully functioning or it's not just open
for the day and you have to go out at night and you were planning on staying there overnight. Plan
ahead and plan to be on hold a lot longer.
J. Aughenbaugh: A long time.
N. Rodgers: Than you would have been. Really shutdowns should just make us crabby.
J. Aughenbaugh: We've largely avoided analyzing this phenomenon of shutdowns, but I'm just going to
go ahead and say this on a very personal level. Federal government shutdowns bother me so much,
because in my estimation, it is one of the very few things that the federal government should do every
year, is pass a budget.
N. Rodgers: This is a basic failure to operate.
J. Aughenbaugh: It's not surprising that many Americans have serious lack of trust and faith in the
federal government when they can't even pass a budget. Yes, I understand that budgeting is difficult in
any government agency or any level of government, but this is one of the core functions. If you're going
to go ahead and create a federal government that makes promises to a whole bunch of people, that
we're going to give you this, we're going to do this, and we're going to assume responsibility for that.
But then, we can't pass a budget so that those activities can occur. I'm sorry. It's very easy for Americans
then to go ahead and say, well, if they can't pass a damn budget, what are they good for?
N. Rodgers: This shutdown, we will talk about this later in the fall when we talk about elections.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: But this government shutdown will have carry on effects over the elections. Because people
will want to hold someone responsible for this.
J. Aughenbaugh: Yes.
N. Rodgers: What do you mean I can't go to a park? What do you mean I can't get anybody to answer
the phone? At the Department of Education is so stressful and whoever sells the message best on whose
fault it was is going to benefit.
J. Aughenbaugh: I mean, for me on a personal level, this is one of the things that just drives me nuts in
regards to American politics. I even said this in an interview with a TV station overseas. If you are an
overseas observer of American politics and you want to know about the health of the American form of
democracy, this should be a troubling sign. This should be troubling.
N. Rodgers: This is not how it's supposed to work.
J. Aughenbaugh: Fourteen times in 42 years, "Leading democracy of the world can't pass a budget."
N. Rodgers: Can't get itself together to do something with its money properly.
J. Aughenbaugh: This is one of the most essential of government functions no matter the type of
government. Democracy, authoritarian, etc. You got to pass a budget. You got to let people know.
N. Rodgers: Even if all the money comes to me. To heck with the rest of you.
J. Aughenbaugh: Anyways, Nia, on that happy note.
N. Rodgers: If the government doesn't shut down, sorry about this episode. But you could just save it for
next time. If the government does shut down, we will come back and talk about it some more.
J. Aughenbaugh: Thank you.
N. Rodgers: Thanks Aughie.
You've been listening to civil discourse brought to you by VCU Libraries. Opinions expressed are solely
the speaker's own and do not reflect the views or opinions of VCU or VCU Libraries. Special thanks to the
Workshop for technical assistance. Music by Isaak Hopson. Find more information at
guides.library.vcu.edu/discourse. As always, no documents were harmed in the making of this podcast.