Procrastination: Why You Do It (And How to Make It Work for You)

🎙️ Episode 27 – Procrastination: Why You Do It (And How to Make It Work for You)

If you’ve ever found yourself asking, “Why do I keep putting this off?”—this episode is for you.

In this episode of the Lion Counseling Podcast, Mark Odland (Certified EMDR Therapist) and Zack Carter (Counselor & Coach) break down the 3 types of procrastination—and explain why your brain might actually be working for you, not against you.

You’ll learn:

✅ Why procrastination is often biologically wired
✅ The difference between idealistic, avoidance, and operational procrastination
✅ How perfectionism, fear, and vague goals are sabotaging your momentum
✅ Practical strategies to make progress (even if you feel stuck)

From elite performers and entrepreneurs to men trying to stay ahead of anxiety and burnout, this episode gives you the tactical mindset shift you need to stop spinning your wheels and start moving forward—on your own terms.

👉 Feeling stuck? SCHEDULE A FREE, 30-MINUTE CONSULT with Mark or Zack to explore if counseling or coaching is a good fit:
https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Topics We Cover in This Episode:

• Why procrastination is biologically smart (sometimes)
• How to turn your "last-minute energy" into a strength
• What’s really behind perfectionism and idealistic delay
• Why fear-based avoidance keeps you stuck (and how to break through it)
• How to make vague goals specific and achievable
• A mindset and action plan to rewire your brain for consistency
• When to ask for help (and how we can support you)

About the Show:
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the lions they were created to be. Hosted by Mark Odland and Zack Carter, we talk about real issues—anxiety, procrastination, trauma, marriage, addiction, legacy—with practical tools, Christian faith, and real-world humor.

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’
💪 Need help? Visit https://escapethecagenow.com

📲 Like, comment, and subscribe to help more men find freedom.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

Host

Zack Carter

Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Mark Odland: 00:00

Welcome everyone to the Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Ottlin, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist.

Zack Carter: 00:07

And I'm Zach Carter, counselor and coach.

Mark Odland: 00:10

And our mission is to help men, to break free, to heal deep, and to become the lions they were created to be. And in today's episode, we talk about procrastination. And if we're honest, most of us do procrastinate, and we think of it as a negative thing, and it can be. But what if putting things off isn't always a bad thing? So, listen in today because we're gonna explore the three kinds of procrastination, why your brain does it, and how to make it work for you instead of against you.

Mark Odland: 00:40

And hang on till the end because we're sprinkling in practical advice so you guys can put this into action right away. And, since you're already here, if you don't mind hitting that subscribe button, we really appreciate it. We're we're blowing through the 10,000 sub mark, and and that's thanks to you. So without further ado, Zach, let's jump

Zack Carter: 01:25

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks. Let's let's

Mark Odland: 01:27

go after it. Procrastination. Where do you wanna start?

Zack Carter: 01:30

Could we start later? Sorry. Dad joke. Oh, no. I'm so sorry.

Zack Carter: 01:36

So procrastination. Is it a bad thing? A lot of people say yes, but actually is it designed in our brain in a specific way to help us? Right? What is the purpose of it?

Zack Carter: 01:49

Is it something that is a glitch in the system or is it a feature? Right? And so what we see is that it is cross cultural. Right? It's cross time.

Zack Carter: 01:58

So this is not a thing that, like, one or two people have struggled with. This is like a common occurrence among among people. And so there must be a reason then if we're seeing that this is cross cultural, cross time. So what could the reason be? What what might a biological reason be?

Zack Carter: 02:16

So let's think about school and getting that test or that paper. Right? Let's say you got a five page paper due in five weeks. You get that assignment, you're like, I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna write one page a week.

Zack Carter: 02:31

And by the end of it, I'm not gonna be stressed out at all. I'm gonna have all five pages done and it's gonna be great. No stress. Week one goes by, nothing happens. Week two goes by, nothing happens.

Zack Carter: 02:43

You get to you get to week five, suddenly you're beating yourself up, you're like, why didn't I start this sooner? And it's Monday, it's due on Friday, and you still don't start. You still wait till Thursday night that five page paper. Somehow you crank it out in seven or eight hours or however long it takes you and you turn it in and you get a B, right? Then you beat yourself up, you're like, what was I thinking?

Zack Carter: 03:08

What did I why didn't I why didn't I start sooner? Well, your brain's really smart. Your brain figured something out. That it would rather spend one eight hour day working on a paper than five weeks working on a paper. Procrastination is about energy conservation.

Zack Carter: 03:27

Right? It's about Mhmm. I can I have the ability to put this thing off until the last minute, still get it done, and conserve all that energy for all those weeks leading up to it? And so procrastination is actually a superpower of ours. Right?

Zack Carter: 03:43

It doesn't feel like it, but it is. It's actually a superpower to wait till the last minute and get the thing done. You're like, but wait, Zach, I got the B or I got the C, I didn't get the A. Right. That's not how the brain's designed.

Zack Carter: 03:57

The brain says C's get degrees bro, C's get degrees. I don't need the A, right? And I've seen in my that every time I've waited till the last minute, I got it done. Yeah. Or at least most of the So time I've gotten it there's no reason to change, right?

Zack Carter: 04:14

The brain says there's no reason to actually change procrastination, right? Yeah. So procrastination is actually a good thing in many ways, because you're saving up your energy, anxiety ramps up at the last minute, boom, you get the thing done, and you typically get the thing done, right? Mhmm. But, there's the big but, right?

Zack Carter: 04:34

Yeah. We we do see that there are consequences from it. So it's like anything else, too much of a good thing can become a bad thing. Right? Right.

Zack Carter: 04:40

We need water to survive. Too much water, that's drowning. Right? So we don't wanna use procrastination to the point that it's really preventing us from getting the things done that we care about. Or if there are situations where you do need to have a higher level of excellence, we do wanna make sure that the procrastination isn't holding you back from that higher level of excellence.

Zack Carter: 04:59

So Yeah. Any thoughts before I kinda get into the three types of procrastination?

Mark Odland: 05:06

No. I just think that's really helpful, Zach, because I think I I identify thinking about getting those exams done. I feel guilty afterwards for procrastinating. And and one part of my brain's like, man, I want I wanted the a plus. I wanted a 100% on that.

Mark Odland: 05:21

How come I settled for whatever? But what we claim to think and believe versus what our brain is behind the scenes strategizing and trying to do, there can be wisdom there. And instead of maybe yeah. So I I'm curious to hear what what you say next about it because it's you got me hooked.

Zack Carter: 05:40

Great. Well yeah. And so, yeah, so just like you said, our our prefrontal cortex, our thoughts might be working differently than, like, the lower levels of the, like, survival brain. Right? The downstairs brain.

Zack Carter: 05:53

And so well said. So what are the different types of procrastination? So we've got three big types of procrastination Okay. That we wanna go through today. Okay?

Zack Carter: 06:04

So first off is idealistic procrastination, also known as perfectionism. And that's kind of what you were just talking about, like Sure. But I needed the a plus. Why? Like, why did you need the a plus?

Zack Carter: 06:16

Is it because you're trying to get into a good school, or is it an ego thing? Is it a thing that it's an expectation on the people around you? Like, why does it need to be perfect? So how do we begin to work on that perfectionism? Because we can see this in a lot of different areas.

Zack Carter: 06:33

We can see it in grades from school, we could see it in like our bodies exercising, wanting to look fit, right? I wanna look I wanna look like Ryan Reynolds. I wanna look like Chris Pratt. I wanna look like whoever. Right?

Zack Carter: 06:46

We want that, like, perfect body. Right? Or, you know, I know a lot of guys try to wait to ask out a girl or a woman till everything's perfect. Like, I need to I have need to be making x number of dollars. I need to be completely fit.

Zack Carter: 07:02

If I've got some moral failings, I need to get those fixed. Whatever it is, we we put off, we procrastinate on pursuing romantic relationships until we're perfect. Right? So this can show up in a lot of different ways. Okay?

Zack Carter: 07:16

So idealistic procrastination. How do we solve this? Step one is grieving. We grieve the loss of perfection. Okay?

Zack Carter: 07:25

So we we actually have to accept that, like, hey, maybe you're not gonna be perfect. Right? If you're like, I wanna make it into Harvard, but you struggle getting a three point o while you're in school, you need to grieve that you're not gonna get into Harvard. Like, it's just not a thing that's gonna happen. So, like, what what can you do?

Zack Carter: 07:45

Right? How do you continue to move forward and continue to be successful in your life without hitting the ideal, with hitting the the the larger goal like that? Wow. Secondly, we set smaller accomplishable goals and we aim for progress over perfection. Okay?

Zack Carter: 08:04

We aim for progress over perfection. Once you get started, you will begin to see that you are gonna start to build momentum. So if you're back in school and you're you've got a two point o, aiming for the four point o is not a reasonable goal. Like if you're halfway through the semester, right? So aim for 2.1, aim for 2.2, right?

Zack Carter: 08:25

And what you're going to see oftentimes is as you aim for that 2.2, oh, what do you know? I got a 2.7 this semester. So next semester, you're like, Okay, let me aim for a 2.8. And suddenly, got a three Then point the next semester, you got a 3.5. Right?

Zack Carter: 08:38

That's typically what progress looks like. I I saw this on a podcast. I thought it was really good. So I'm going to pull it up on our screen about guys that are trying to lose weight. So this is an image of a bunch of different body types, body comparisons based on fat percentages.

Zack Carter: 08:55

So if you're the guy bottom right, 40% body fat, you're like, alright. I want that 8% body. Like, what do I gotta do? So you go to the gym a couple days and you're still at 40%. You're not at the 8%.

Zack Carter: 09:09

And so you're like, this is dumb and you quit. Right? Yeah. That's because the the goal is completely unreasonable. The perfection goal is completely unreasonable.

Zack Carter: 09:18

So the guy at 40% is aiming to be the guy at 35%. Right? So if you're obese, you're aiming to be overweight. When you're overweight, you're aiming to have a more normal average body. When you have the more normal average body, you're aiming to be slightly fit and then fit and then, you know, starting to shred up and then even more shredded and then the most shredded.

Zack Carter: 09:37

Right? That's how you progress. That's how you get better. And so that's how you actually work on that idealistic procrastination, that perfectionism. Any thoughts on that, Mark?

Mark Odland: 09:49

Yeah. I mean, it it reminds me of, I think, one of the first podcasts we ever did on motivation. Mhmm. And whether it was that or another one, we talked about atomic habits. We talked we had another great podcast where you kind of led the conversation about cognitive distortions and the power of cognitive behavioral therapy to guard against that all or nothing thinking.

Mark Odland: 10:07

And so all this stuff starts working together after a while and there are these truths about our own brains and how we're wired that are really important to just kind of embrace and understand about ourselves. And so we're not fighting our own biology, not fighting our own nature because that tends to be a losing battle. The other thought I had when we were talking about the perfectionism was just, you know, a lot of our listeners come from that faith perspective. Right? So for, like, for some of our Christian guys out there, you know, we got these verses, right, that kind of put us back in our place.

Mark Odland: 10:39

Like, no one is righteous, not one. Like, all have fallen short of the glory of god. We shoot for the prize. We we run that race set before us and we try to strive for, to be the better version of ourselves. But if we get caught up in this delusion that we're always supposed to be perfect, it's a setup.

Mark Odland: 10:57

It's a setup for not not great things, right? So, I I think back to my interview with Jonathan Pageau and he had this great line. He said, dude, your sins aren't special. He was just kind of like highlighting the gap between where we think we should be and where we actually are. And there's this unnecessary kind of guilt and shame and turmoil on top of our failings because we somehow think we should be way above it.

Mark Odland: 11:26

And we're like, no, dude. Not really. Like, you got some work to do. You're a human. You're a guy.

Mark Odland: 11:32

Mhmm. One step at a time. One step at a time. Let's move in the right direction. So little little tangent there, Zach, but I I thought it dubbed it.

Zack Carter: 11:40

That was perfect. At least in my mind. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's perfect.

Zack Carter: 11:42

And and, obviously, I'm now converting you over to the CBT side of things. So I love love the reference. So You're working on me. You're working on me. Mark, in case you guys don't know, Mark and I are constantly trying to convert the other from EMDR into CBT and from CBT into EMDR.

Zack Carter: 12:02

It's it's a it's like we're different denominations of church. It's like, you should really you should really try that assemblies of god, man. It's like, I'm all about that Presbyterian. I don't even know what you are, Mark. But that's basically kind of what's going on.

Zack Carter: 12:19

So that was a tangent, what you said was pertinent. So number two, what type, what's the second type of procrastination that we want to be able to pay attention to and want to work on? And that is called avoidance procrastination, okay? So avoidance procrastination is is based in fear, right? So every good adventure movie you ever watch is gonna have that avoidance procrastination.

Zack Carter: 12:43

Right? Indiana Jones is gonna run up to the edge of the waterfall and pause and be like, I don't wanna jump it but you know he's gonna jump it. And then suddenly he takes the, you know, the beautiful girl on his side and they jump, you know, off the waterfall into the the water underneath. Right? That's avoidance procrastination.

Zack Carter: 12:59

There's fear. Right? What if we get hurt? What if something bad happens? And so where does this show up in our lives?

Zack Carter: 13:04

So this is things like if we have a project or a podcast or or stuff from work that we need to do that was given to us from the boss, but we're afraid we're gonna fail, we we procrastinate on it. Right? Because we're we're nervous that if we engage in the thing, we might fail. Right? Fights with our wife.

Zack Carter: 13:26

Right? If there's conversations that really need to that you really need to have with your wife, but you don't wanna deal with the the fallout, you don't wanna deal with the consequences, we procrastinate. We try to avoid those conversations. Right? Asking your boss for a raise.

Zack Carter: 13:39

Right? I, you know, I don't feel like I'm being treated well and, you know, I don't, I just, I can't get myself or maybe he's putting, you feel like he's putting too much on you and not enough on others, like you just like put it off and put it off and put it off, Right? So that's what avoidance procrastination is. Right? So Yeah.

Zack Carter: 13:57

What what do we do there? What's the solution to that? So the main solution is to recognize the emotion and engage in it. Okay? So oftentimes as men, we can suffer from something called male normative alexithymia, which is basically fancy talk for we no good at feeling the feels back in caveman talk.

Zack Carter: 14:17

Yeah. And so how do we start to begin to recognize the emotions if we truly don't understand? And so a really good question you could ask yourself is, what would someone else feel if they were in the situation I was in? Sure. You know, if they were in the situation of wanting to talk with their wife, but nervous about it or their boss or whatever.

Zack Carter: 14:40

Right? And so you might say, oh, they would be nervous. They would be frustrated. They would be disappointed. And so that might be easier to help you to identify the emotion.

Zack Carter: 14:49

We wanna be able to identify it. Right? Second question you can ask yourself is what is the consequences I'm trying to avoid? Okay. So what do you think is gonna happen if you talk to your boss about a raise or about not feeling that you're treated fair?

Zack Carter: 15:03

What do you think is gonna be the consequence about talking with your wife? What are what are the consequences you're trying to avoid? Lastly, you ask yourself, if I had a friend or a family member that I cared about with this emotion, what would I say to them? Right? Those are typically the words that we need to hear.

Zack Carter: 15:21

So say that to yourself. Right? What would you say to that friend? What would you say to that family member? And then say that say those things to yourself.

Zack Carter: 15:27

Okay? That's gonna begin to kinda ease some of that fear, that emotional pressure you're feeling, and it might help to kinda get you moving forward on the thing that you need to do.

Mark Odland: 15:38

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great point, because even though procrastination, yeah, it can be energy conservation. It can kind of, like, wait until the timing's right to finally jump start you unless it actually paralyzes you

Zack Carter: 15:52

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 15:52

And you're just frozen, and you don't know how to get the wheels turning again. And so I I really like that. I think that's a powerful way to kinda channel the situation into closer alignment with what is actually true because our brain has the ability to distort things quite a bit. And as and I don't know if I'm reading this right, but even maybe through that lens of what would I tell a friend or how would they see? You know, it's it's almost like you create a little room for some empathy for yourself and to not because beating yourself and that for us as guys, that's such a complicated situation.

Mark Odland: 16:24

Right? Because beating ourselves up can can serve as fuel to propel us forward. And a lot of the high functioning guys, high you know, very successful guys that we work with, that's the story of their life is they're they're running from this avoidance of something, and it's driven them towards success, but it comes at a cost. Right? So that's another podcast, another conversation.

Mark Odland: 16:45

But Yeah. I really I appreciate you sharing those ideas. I think that

Zack Carter: 16:49

really helps. Yeah. No. That's really good. Well, we're at the final stage, the final procrastination.

Zack Carter: 16:56

So let's let's finish this out. So what's the third type of procrastination that we're wanting to be able to identify and work on? Right? Because if we don't know which type of procrastination, we're not going to be able to solve this problem. Right?

Zack Carter: 17:10

So third type is operational procrastination. Right? And so that's when that's when the goal is vague. And so I I think we've done a podcast on SMART goals before maybe, but essentially, you know, as counselors oftentimes clients will come to us with a vague goal like, I wanna be healthy. Right?

Zack Carter: 17:28

Well, what does that mean? Does that mean you wanna lose weight? Does that mean you wanna be mentally healthy? Does that mean you want to have better cardiovascular health, like eat better? What are we talking about?

Zack Carter: 17:40

What are we talking about? So oftentimes, we come with a vague goal. And when we have a vague goal, it's it's really hard to start taking the steps until we understand what the clear the clear goal is and the clear path is to get that goal. So that could be things like, I want a job. Okay.

Zack Carter: 17:58

Like what does that even mean? Right? I want to start a podcast. I wanna get a girlfriend. Right?

Zack Carter: 18:05

So oftentimes, these kinds of goals are are really hard to say, like, well, but what are the actual steps to to obtain this goal? So Sure. What do we do in in the case of vaguer goals? We wanna be able to sit down with a piece of paper, and we want to start with the end in mind. So if it's I wanna get a job, okay.

Zack Carter: 18:31

Like, do you know what first off, do you know what kind of job? And you're like, well, I want a job in this field. Okay. So I wanna accept a job in engine the engineering field. Okay.

Zack Carter: 18:43

So then you work backwards. Okay. So what would be the previous step to accepting the job? It would be something along the lines of getting a job offer. Okay.

Zack Carter: 18:51

What happened before that? It would be I had an interview. Okay. So you write that down. Okay.

Zack Carter: 18:57

I would have an interview. What would you do before that? Okay. I would have applied for the job. Okay.

Zack Carter: 19:01

How about that? I would have applied to many jobs. Okay. What about before that? It would be I searched jobs through a job search database.

Zack Carter: 19:15

Before that, I did my resume and my cover letter and I updated that. Before that, I bought a suit so that I could do the interviews. Right? So now you've got the sequential steps that you need to get to the final destination. Right?

Zack Carter: 19:29

And so it's it's much easier when you have it all laid out before and you're like, oh, I can't go buy a suit. Okay. Let me let me go do that. That's pretty easy and then you feel pretty good when you've done that first step and you're like, okay. Let me let me update my resume, you know.

Zack Carter: 19:44

I'll I'll start with that. Okay. You get your resume update. Okay. Let me update my

Mark Odland: 19:48

Yeah.

Zack Carter: 19:48

My references. And then you continue to move through those sequence of actions. Right? And so that's how you overcome operational procrastination when when the goal and the path to obtaining that goal is kind of vague.

Mark Odland: 20:02

I love that, Zach. That's powerful. I mean, as you were sharing that, it reminded me that that's not only a powerful therapeutic tool to kind of, like, get things moving in the present or in the near future in your life. But, I mean, I know maybe you do this as well, but when I work with, like, executive coaching, whether it's a guy trying to build a business, take a business to the next level or even to figure out a legacy kind of a succession plan after they built a business to like what's next in life, like we'll actually have them go through like a one year, three year or five year vision statement where they're writing a letter to themself, it very specific. Hey, it's 2030 and here's what's happening in my personal life, my professional life, my spiritual life.

Mark Odland: 20:43

Here is what my finances look like. Here's what, you know, and then they paint this picture of what they actually want, what they actually hope to achieve. And now, like you said so beautifully, you work your way backwards from there. Mhmm. And a lot of us don't give ourselves permission to dream, don't give ourselves permission to to cast that vision, or or maybe even we get criticized for doing so.

Mark Odland: 21:06

Mhmm. And and if and if it's just like a vision without a plan, then maybe we do deserve some of that criticism. But I think what you're saying is so powerful because it's bridging that gap. Right? It's it's where's the goal?

Mark Odland: 21:19

What is the goal? What does it look like? Mhmm. How do I work backwards from there? Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 21:23

Then all of a sudden, it becomes actually realistic and achievable. So that's that's such good advice for our guys right now.

Zack Carter: 21:29

There you go. Well, I yeah. I yeah. I have worked with clients on that and that's even to your point of, like, working with clients on it. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 21:39

It can even be, what's the amount of money I wanna make by the end of the year? Okay. Then you work backwards. Well, what are the things I have to do in order to, like, get to that place? Do I need to spend less money?

Zack Carter: 21:49

Do I need to take on extra side jobs? Like, what do I gotta do to, get to this final? So you could do it for a lot of different different ways. That's a really great example you're giving around business owners and, like, what's the final destination? Like, what do you find what do you want at the end?

Mark Odland: 22:04

Yeah. Mhmm. For sure. Well, that's a that's a good Zach. I mean, we got some really practical takeaways for guys, three different types of procrastination, ways to move forward, ways to make it a a fuel that we can use to our advantage rather than something that paralyzes us.

Mark Odland: 22:19

Mhmm. And I know this is kinda your bread and butter. I mean, you work with a lot of addictions. You work with a lot of guys trying to become a better version of themselves, anxiety, depression, coaching them up. Right?

Mark Odland: 22:30

A background in banking and finances, trying to help them kinda get to the next level. So, like, I think all that kinda dovetails and comes into play with a lot of the guys we work with. And so if any of you out there are looking for a little extra support, you know, Zach and I are are taking new clients. And if you're not sure, you wanna test the waters, we're happy to do a, you know, free fifteen, twenty minute Zoom call with you and just see if it's a good fit. And and, you know, we got exciting things on the horizon for Lion too.

Mark Odland: 22:56

Zach and I are gonna be brainstorming in the future, but, you know, there there are ideas about, you know, different kinds of guys groups that we might start. You know, it could be accountability groups. It could be business coaching groups. It could be you know, there's all sorts of things on the horizon. So stay tuned.

Mark Odland: 23:12

And and, Zach, any final words of wisdom before we sign off for today?

Zack Carter: 23:17

Yeah. Just get started. Like, the these videos are great, but if you don't do anything with it, then, you know, like, oh, that was interesting. So, like, identify the kind of like, identify what's the thing that you're procrastinating, what type of procrastination is it, and then begin to engage in the solution. So I would highly encourage people.

Zack Carter: 23:34

You still find you're having difficulty doing that, I mean, that's what me and Mark are here for is that we help you if you're, like, if you're just having a hard time bringing yourself to do it. Alright, man. That's what that's what we're here to help with.

Mark Odland: 23:46

Love it. Love it. Alright. Well, yeah, check it out, guys. Escapethecagenow.com.

Mark Odland: 23:51

Until next time, Take care, and stay tuned.

Zack Carter: 23:55

Bye, everybody. Bye, everybody.