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There's more than one way to be a spiritually minded woman who wants to make and keep covenants, know her Savior and make it back home. Yes, there are essential CHECKPOINTS on the covenant path, but there are NO CHECKLISTS with a million checkboxes you must check off.
Each week on the Spiritually Minded Women podcast I’ll be sharing insights about how to embrace YOUR journey on the covenant path with CHECKPOINTS instead of CHECKLISTS.
Thanks for joining me today. It's been a little while since I shared an episode. This episode is gonna be an interview. I haven't done an interview in almost a year, but when Madi, who is my guest today, when she reached out to me via email, I just felt something like, I just really want to be able to help her share her story and to be able to use my podcast to be able to do that.
She's talking about her experience with pornography and it's a really compelling and impactful story and I love being able to share it. She's launching a podcast and I wanted to be able to tell you about that as well. And so I'll put all the links to that in the show notes and you can hear her talk about that at the end of the episode.
Before we jump into that interview, you probably know if you followed me for any amount of time that I am a certified creation coach through Brooke Snow's Creation Coach School. And I've actually been through the program twice. I certified myself in 2021, and then I worked as an accountability coach for Brook e in 2022.
And I helped 10 women who were in that program that year go through and we met together over Zoom and I was able to help them through the program and just loved being able to be a mentor and I learned so much from them. It was so awesome. So Brooke is opening up Creation Coach School again, and there is an opportunity for you to become certified in the Creation Coach School, and I would love to be able to tell you more about that and give you some details.
In the show notes to this episode, you can find a link to go and find out more about that. And that is an affiliate link. I will just be upfront with you about that and if you purchase Creation Coach School through that link, I do get an affiliate commission for that.
But I'm also offering you some bonuses. So if you do use my link to sign up for Creation Coach School I'm giving you two things. One of them is five things that I wish I had known before I did Creation Coach School. I've done it twice and I've learned a lot, and I wanna share what I've learned with you.
I have a video that goes over five tips, things that I wish I had done that I think will really help you get started and be able to get the very most that you can out of Creation Coach School. So that's bonus number one. Bonus number two is this year Brooke's team is not offering an accountability group, and that's just a group of women that can come together.
You can go live on Zoom. You can ask questions, talk about the lessons, get some clarity, figure out how you want to implement the lessons into your life and into your coaching practice. And that's not being offered by Brooke's team this year. So I'm going to be offering it for anybody that signs up using my affiliate code. It's gonna be once a month over Zoom and it's gonna be totally free to those that use my code.
So, if you feel like you wanna have some more one-on-one interaction as you go through the program, which I highly recommend, it was so good for me to be able to do that last year, then use my affiliate code if you're planning to sign up for Creation Coach and I would love to be able to help you through the year as your accountability coach.
You can find the link in the episode notes for this episode, and also I'll put a link on my Instagram profile and if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. I'd love to share more with you. And now here is my interview with Mad i Davis.
Welcome to the Spiritual Minded Women Podcast. This is Darla, and I'm so happy that you're here today. I have an episode today with a guest, an interview, and it's been a long time since I've done an interview, but I'm really happy to share my guest with you today and to hear her story and her journey on the covenant path.
So my guest today is Madi Davis. Madi, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you.
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Great. Well, do you wanna just introduce yourself really quick and then, and then we'll dive in and talk about your story and your journey and what that's looked like for you.
Yeah, for sure.
So I am 19. I'm a freshman at BYU. I'm pre-business right now hoping to go into entrepreneurial management, come from a family of five with an older brother and a younger sister. I grew up in Logan, Utah, moved to Riverton, Utah at 14. I love weightlifting, hiking, playing guitar, singing, all things music.
Yeah, that pretty much sums me
up.
I wanna share this little piece about this. So Madi reached out to me via email, to share her story. And it's a very compelling story and it was something that I really felt strongly I wanted to share about.
When I was sending the email back, I thought, should I ask Madi if she knows my son because my son is also a freshman at BYU and I thought, there's no way. So I didn't write that and I sent the email and then like three days later my son called me and was telling me your story that he had met you.
And I'm like, is her name Madi? Anyway, it was so crazy that you did meet my son and you guys are friends. That's really cool side note, but let's go ahead and dive in. Tell me a little bit about what your story is .
Yeah, so I am here on a mission to talk about and bring awareness to girls and women struggling with pornography.
So I personally struggled with it. I found pornography at 13 and it was a really confusing time for me because a lot of times we don't really talk about like women's sexuality in the church and women just being sexual beings. I remember I would have like young women's lessons and they'd be like, okay, we're talking about pornography.
We know that you guys don't struggle with this, but just listen so you can help your future spouse. And the statistic is 30% of women. And so in a classroom of 15 girls, it's me and four other girls who are sitting there thinking the same thoughts of, oh my gosh. I'm just disgusting. Like I am actually the worst person ever in, I, I would have like lessons about, the atonement and like, you know, being, being saved from your sin and stuff and I was like, oh man.
Like, what a great gift for everyone else but me because, you know, like everyone else was, was made correctly. And they have like normal sins like you hear in. in like seminary or in Sunday school lessons, they're like, okay, what do you guys struggle with right now? And everyone's like, well, sometimes I don't read my scriptures.
And I'm like, man, I wish , I wish that was my biggest problem. And so, yeah, it was hard. I, I felt super alone and super isolated and genuinely did believe that, there was just something wrong with me because I had never heard of a girl struggling with pornography. And so, eventually at 14 or maybe 15, I, I decided to send a text to my bishop and just ask him to meet.
And I remember like that experience of like sitting outside of the Bishop's office versus co like coming out of the Bishop's office was like stark difference, just night and day. It was such a perspective shift because. Man, like Satan was beating down on me really hard, especially outside of that office.
And he was just, he was just trying to fill my head with like, thoughts of like, man, you're gonna go in there and this reputation that you have of like, being the perfect kid, like straight a student, whatever that's just gonna be out the door like you're done for. And I really felt that I would go in and my bishop would be like, like, really Madi?
Like, you struggle with this? Like, it's kinda gross . And it sounds like so silly to think looking back now because of how amazing the experience was. But they were like very real thoughts. So pornography, I would say like a hundred percent of the time it stems from not fully understanding your identity.
And like as a 13 year old girl, you're struggling with things like comparison and like body image issues, self-esteem issues. And I mean, everyone else has their different little problems, but it all really stems back to not understanding your identity.
And so I remember I went in there and. He told me three things. He told me, you are, you are a daughter of God. You are still just as valued and you are still just as loved. And like that was like, that changed so much for me. And so hearing my bishop's words along with like, there was such a strong spirit in there and along with just feeling the power of the atonement more strongly than I had ever felt in my life.
That was like life changing. I remember I walked out of there. And I like to compare it to like, like Joseph Smith and the Sacred Grove. Like it was like all of the darkness beating, beating upon him and then there was a light and there was finally a light and there was a sense of like, direction in my life.
And so I remember like walking home and it was so cool because not only did I feel like I had had the sin and the weight of that taken off my back, but it was like every single aspect of my life started to improve. Like I walked outside and I remember the sky was blue, but it was bluer, and the trees and the grass were green but they were greener.
There's just this whole new level of living that I hadn't experienced and wouldn't have ever experienced if I didn't willingly submit myself to the power of the atonement. After that, I was clean for about a year and.
But it was kind of like a willpower thing, like just white-knuckling. And I was like, I can't do that again. You know, like that was just so horrible. And I felt this like awesome light and I, I just, I'm never gonna go back to it again. And then I think at like 16 I relapsed once and I was like, Oh my gosh.
Like, are you serious? Like, so disappointed in myself. I was like, we already, we already did that. Like we already figured that out. I thought that we were over that. And anyway, I was, I was so mad at myself, but that was really important for me because it taught me a really good lesson of like, relapses actually don't start you back at square one if you don't let them.
I learned a ton from that, and I learned that like, oh, this is actually something that I have to be like, constantly aware of and like very, I can't just, I can't just, you know, let it slide and I can't relax and I can't get too, too comfortable, you know, like I have to keep pushing myself and, and have, have a discipline and make it a choice every single day to choose Christ and to choose the more joyful path. And so, yeah, since then it's been awesome because I have just been able to share my story and that's been huge in my recovery process. There's a quote. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection.
And I've felt that so much in the past little bit. That's really good. Yeah. So I wanna know
what questions you have. I, I have, I have a lot of questions for you. So I wanna go back to the beginning when you were talking about you were 13. I love what you said about how it really stems from not knowing your identity, but how did it start for you, like practically, what did it look like?
Were you on your phone? How did your parents not know? Those kinds of things. Because I'm looking at myself. I'm a mother, I'm a young woman's leader. Like, I would love to know, and I think a lot of the people that are gonna listen to this might be in that same boat.
Like, how do we help a, a teenager that might be going down that path? How do we know they're going down that path? You know, what did that look like for you?
Yeah, so for me, it, it actually started on social media and I remember I would like see things like, it's, it's really hard to avoid like, like pornographic things on social media cuz they're just everywhere.
And so I would see things and I'm like, wait, there's like, there's like a whole other world out there and people say that, like it started out of curiosity and I think that's what mine started out as. But it wasn't like a curiosity like, oh, I'm gonna go like look at pornography to get educated about sex.
Like . That was never, you know, the intention.
You weren't seeking it out, but you were curious and it popped up and so you just kind of went down that road?
I would see it and then I went to seek it out.
Like there was a point where I was like seeking it
out. Okay. I wanna know from a mother's perspective, if a mother's listening to this and they wanna know how is my kid finding porn on Instagram? How do you do that? Is it in the finder section or just things just pop up on accounts that you follow.
So when I was like actively, like seeking it out, I would just use like the internet, like a search engine. But social media was like the gateway, if that makes
sense. You talked about identity and you talked about being in a young womens class and people just assuming that it's not a problem for you. If you're going back in time, what do you wish that young woman leader would've said to you?
That's a good question. Well, I guess first off, I just, I don't have any like, negative feelings toward my young women's leaders. Right. Cause I, I think they just grew up, you know, they grew up in a different generation where they weren't just like constantly bombarded by this.
And so, I mean, I totally understand where they were coming from. But I think it's just so important to like, keep an open mind. And one of like the biggest tips that I give to parents or leaders is, , well first off, have constant conversations about it because if they're, like, it's sex education is a need if they're not getting educated through you then they're going to need to get educated somehow and pornography is kind of the worst way to do that. So one of the biggest like, practical tips that I give is use different pronouns.
Like, I, I think if I would've heard at 13, like, oh, she's struggling with pornography, like my whole life would've changed cuz I would've been like, wait, what? Like, that's a thing? That would be like a big tip. And again, constant, like casual conversations about it. Like you don't have to sit them down, look them in the eyes and say like, tell me about all the times you, you viewed pornography.
People say it's nice to do it like in the car or like on a hike where you're not like making direct eye contact. And you just ask like phrase the question like, Hey, like when was the last time that you like viewed pornography? Or like that you saw pornography? Because sometimes it's not even there seeking it out.
They just see it, you know? Like that was what happened with me. So I think that, I don't know, that would be a big tip for leaders. .
Yeah. I really like the pronoun thing, because if you would've heard that, that would've helped you to feel like, oh, I'm not alone. Like there are other people.
And like you said, that connection helps you. Another thing that I wanted to ask you about was repentance because I'm a young womens leader, so this is top of mind for me. And you were recently a young woman. In the young woman theme, it says, we cherish the gift of repentance and seek to improve each day.
So, you know, I kind of interpret that as repentance is not something that's just kind of a one time thing or just for big things, but like, we do it every day. So what does that mean to you to cherish the gift of repentance?
I love it. I, I just love. , my view of the atonement has changed just so much.
And I used to see it as like, oh, you know, only people who have like done bad things are, are sitting in the bishop's office, you know? And now it's like, I think I go meet with my bishop every week just because like it's so good to just talk to him. And I mean, maybe, I mean, I'm not saying I recommend that cuz bishops are busy people, but like, it's just like, take that from the perspective of just meeting with God every day and meeting and just letting him know like what's going on in your life. And the atonement, again, like the atonement is not just to, to help you with sin. And we even talk about like it, it can help you with like your infirmities and afflictions, but like the atonement is to help you change whatever you want to change.
The atonement can help you start getting up earlier in the morning. It can help you start getting to the gym. We always try to, I have like a post on my Instagram that says we can't put finite limits on an infinite atonement. It stems from that idea, stems from there was a journal entry that I had from when I was kind of like, you know, deep in the trenches and I was like, man, like Satan got to me again because I was just, I got too comfortable and I got too casual.
And I was like, well, this week I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go through and I'm going to journal every day. And you know, like say my prayers, read my scriptures, and then after that I'll go meet with the bishop. And I think those words are so important. We always say, oh, after that, but that's us. We are the only people that are going to put that limit on the atonement because it really is infinite and it's here for us right now.
As long as we have the slightest, slightest feeling of maybe I need to change, like I want to change the slightest desire for change, I'm like, it's here and it's so accessible.
That is so insightful. I loved what you said about not putting a finite, A finite, what did you say? Boundaries or something Finite.
Limits on limits. Infinite atonement. On an infinite atonement. That is so good. Yes. It's usually us holding ourselves back. And I loved what you said about the atonement is for more than just sin. We have the redeeming power of the atonement. We also have the enabling power.
So the Savior's there to help us with anything and it's about change. That's what repentance is. It's about change. If you have any desire. I just loved how you, how you put that. If you have any desire to change that the atonement is there to help you and we really can cherish that gift of repentance.
You talked about the atonement and how Christ has helped you and your bishop. What have been some of the practical things that you've done to help you with your addiction?
Just stemming back to like the opposite of addiction is connection. That has been huge for me. So I'm part of, I didn't say this in my intro, but I'm part of the presidency of this club at BYU called the Unalone Club. And what we do is we meet on Zoom every week. And we have these awesome guest speakers. Like we've had, like, we just barely had Jeff Stewart.
We've had Sarah Brewer. So we have like awesome, awesome people who are just like amazing and pornography. And so people come every week who either are struggling with pornography or are supporting someone who's struggling with pornography.
We just hear these great insights and I've made a ton of friends in that, because it's so good to just be able to connect with people. And so that has been huge in my recovery process. And also just like having an accountability partner I think is super, super helpful someone that you reach out to and you're like, Hey, like I, I'm feeling tempted right now, and.
and like you just break that and by saying that out loud, you give, say so much less power. And then I would say probably the biggest one is just mindfulness. I have a thing called a battle plan, and it's like I do a lot of preventative things, you know, like put my phone away at a certain time at night.
I turn off notifications for social media, stuff like that. But when you're like right there, you're always gonna need like a battle plan. And you're gonna need a plan A for when you actually like, make it through and you're gonna need a plan B for like, what happens when you do fail.
And so what I do is like if I'm feeling the urge to like view pornography, I first like, stop, and I don't feel the need to like immediately dismiss that idea as like, oh, that's so evil, that's so evil. Or immediately like, react to it. It's more of just like super neutral. Don't give it any positive or negative value.
Just like, okay, what exactly am I feeling right now? Why am I feeling it? What's pushing me to view it? What am I trying to hide from? And so I'll do that. And then, yeah, it's just like extreme, extreme mindfulness and like radical acceptance of just what is happening. And I think that also it starts from understanding your identity and understanding that, oh, women actually can have these feelings.
And that that doesn't make me a bad person.
Those are such good tips. Connection, having accountability partner, mindfulness. I think, I think that's so good. I loved what you were saying about just in the moment when you're feeling it, like figure out what am I feeling? What is happening here? I heard one time some research was done and that if you have a negative feeling, it only takes 90 seconds for that feeling to pass through you and to be gone.
It resonated with me. So many times we stuff something down. We try to not feel it and if we would just, feel it, let it pass. Okay, we're moving on and we can do that. So I think that's so good and I love mindfulness.
I think that is such a great way. What do you think young women can do or even older women? How do we understand our identity? How do we use our identity and come to know who we are and how does that help us to combat the temptation and the adversary and all of those things?
I would say the biggest one is we have to understand who God is to understand who we are. especially like, I was just talking with one of my friends about how like, he felt he was the worst person ever, just when he was being tempted to view pornography. And, and then you look at the scriptures and like Jesus himself, the most perfect person on earth was tempted.
Understanding how God views you and how God, um, just his nature, I would say. I, I honestly think that that's the biggest one. I know that sounds so simple, but like, that's what has helped me a ton.
How have you learned that? What have you done to learn God's nature?
I think honestly like, oh, what is it like Mosiah two 17 when you're in the service?
Is that Yeah, yeah. . Yeah, that's right. When you're in the service of your fellow beings, you're only in, in the service of your God. Like, especially in this past, like, Um, it's almost been two months now that I've been going and, and sharing my story and, and like connecting with someone every single day about this.
That has been huge and being able to just be in the service of them has, has really helped me.
Doing the things that he would do. Right? If you're trying to emulate his character, then that's gonna help you know who he is. What would you say to someone who's listening to this, who is struggling with pornography, but they haven't sought out the connection or met with their bishop. They're just living in that darkness.
What would you say to that person?
I would first just wanna give him a hug because I know what it's like. That's so hard and it feels so unconquerable. And if you go it alone, if you keep going it alone, it will be unconquerable. Like you need, you need someone to help you in that person.
That person who is reaching out to you right now is the savior. , I, I always quote this cuz I think it's so good. But, so one of my good friends, Smith Allie, who does a ton for like helping educate parents, on like the dangers of technology for their youth. He went on a podcast called Unashamed Unafraid and he talked about how he had gotten to a point in his recovery process where he was no longer hiding from God, he was facing God.
He might take steps forward and he might take steps backward, but he's always facing Him. . I love that analogy. And, um, I just, I what I would, as far as what I would say to them, like, you're not alone. You're actually not made incorrectly. You're not a bad person. You're a good person who like, might be involved in things that are, that are hurting you.
So I would say like, get help for yourself because it's going to change your life and the sooner you do it the better. And if, if you need like practice in like telling your story or whatever, like reach out to me. I will totally listen. Have a phone call with you anytime. You're not alone and, and God loves you right where you're at and he's waiting to meet you right where you're at if you just turn to him.
I think Satan wants you to feel like. Oh, you need to stay in darkness. He wants you to feel that shame that you can't tell anyone this, you know, you're awful. They're gonna think this, they're gonna think that and just don't listen to that. Like, you have to open up and that's what lets the light in.
I've thought a lot about that and I think that's what can lead to us feeling the connection is if we open up and that lets light in and that it does, that helps us So, Since a lot of my listeners are like me, moms and young women leaders, and you know, we're around other teenagers and, and maybe it's not teenagers. Obviously this can affect adult women too, right?
What would you say to someone who has a loved one that comes to them and tells them that they're using pornography?
That's a good question. I was talking to someone the other day and they're like, yeah, like pornography is ruining marriages. And we can just apply that in general, like pornography is ruining relationships and a lot of times that is so scary, especially for the person who is like approaching you and saying, Hey, I'm struggling with pornography.
They already have it in their mind, and Satan is just digging on them in filling their minds with shame and Those feelings of like, well, this is going to ruin our relationship. And so you have to be the counteract that. Even approaching it when they come to you, like with a smile and, and counteracting their beliefs of like, of like, this is going to ruin our relationship.
You have to be that light of hope. And that's a hard ask. I know that's a hard ask. And I also think just like you can, you can set those boundaries for yourself too. Like tell, tell them, Hey, this is something that I'm still learning how to deal with too, and I'm going to be as patient with you as possible.
And I would appreciate it if you were patient with me cuz we're just still figuring it out. But just make sure that they know, like you're not, you're not gonna give up on them. And it comes from a place of of love. I would also just add this goes for anyone who is struggling and anyone who is looking to help someone who's struggling.
Shame is never going to lead to change. And so a lot of times we have those feelings when you are struggling of like, man, like you're just so ashamed of what you've done. And like, if only they knew, if only they knew what I had done. And then when you're supporting someone who's struggling, you have those feelings of like, man, I just wish I would've had this conversation before.
I wish I would've like found this before. I wish I would've done this. I wish I would've done that. And if you, if you let those thoughts, like fester, Satan is totally gonna take advantage of them and just let 'em grow. And so you have to be believe that change is possible and that like it's possible for both of you as you're learning, how to approach it.
Yeah. I would just say, yeah, shame will never lead to change. And so allow Jesus Christ to take, take that into his hands and combat it with him. Yeah, and I
I think that applies to both sides-- person that is viewing pornography and the person that's trying to help them.
Both of us need the savior. Everybody needs the savior. I really like what you said about being the one that can counteract Satan, because Satan's already in their head, and let's be the one that can show love. And that's where the savior comes in. We use him to know how to respond and if we don't respond the way that we hope we wished we would've. We can repent and we can try again, and we can go to that person and try to repair that.
Madi, this has been so great and I really have loved hearing your perspective and your story, and I know that it's gonna help someone else, and I just am so grateful that you would let me be a small part of helping you share your story. So thank you so much for coming on. I just have one final question for you, and that is, how have you seen and felt the savior in your journey on the covenant path?
Man, just
all the time. I think that it's just been cool for me to realize that he has constantly been there and like it's just up to us whether we notice it or not. But he's always there and he's always wanting us to come into his fold and to experience the joy and the great and marvelous things that he has in store for us.
I always see him when, when I put in the effort and when I allow myself to see him. Again, like it really is just us who put put limits on, on the atonement and on the power of the savior. So I would say when I put in the effort, that's what I see him.
That's great. Beautifully said. If people wanna find out more about you, I know you're planning a podcast and you have an Instagram, just tell everyone where they can find you.
So I'm on Instagram at Sisters on the front lines, and then same with email. It's Sisters on the front lines gmail.com. .
Okay. And your podcast, the same name is coming out soon, right? Yep. I will put all the links to that in the show notes for this episode. So if people want to come and find you, they can go there and find those links or just look you up on Instagram.
Thank you so much for being willing to share and like I said before, I know it's gonna help somebody else. It's just been a pleasure to meet you and, and to be able to hear your story.
Thank you so much for having me.
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Have an amazing day. I'm cheering you on.