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Join certified trauma professional Dr. Amy Hoyt and licensed therapist Leina Hoyt, MFT at https://www.mendingtrauma.com as they teach you how to recover from trauma and cPTSD. Trauma shows up in our everyday reactions and sensations and recovering requires a multi-prong approach that considers the mind, body and spirit. Dr. Amy and Leina will teach you the most emerging research and skills to empower you to overcome your past traumas. They address nervous system health, somatic therapy, trauma, cPTSD, EMDR, Neurofeedback, IFS (Internal Family Systems therapy), and many other modes of recovering from trauma. As mental health experts, sisters and trauma survivors, they teach you the tools that actually helped them recover, are backed by research and have helped thousands of their clients. Each episode is packed with clinically effective methods as well as scientific findings to guide you through your own trauma healing journey. Whether discussing cPTSD, PTSD, medical trauma, somatic therapy, nervous system regulation, EMDR or neurofeedback, Amy and Leina will help you recover from trauma so that you can reconnect to yourself and others.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (02:12)
Welcome back, everyone! Leina's punking me.
Leina (02:16)
True.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (02:19)
my goodness. Happy November again. We wanted to talk this week about how to prepare for those family gatherings that are coming up. And, you know, especially those of us who have had trauma and we're talking about CPTSD, which we'll define in a minute. This can be hard. These gatherings can be challenging. So first off, what is CPTSD, Leina?
Leina (02:28)
That's right, it's the time of year.
It is complex post-traumatic stress disorder. And it's typically a description of childhood trauma where you live in an environment where there is any type of abuse or maltreatment or neglect. And so what Amy and I were talking about before we started recording was that
you're going back into a dynamic unless everybody in your family has changed. You're going back into a dynamic that shaped you as a child. And some of you may have worked really hard to be different than or to provide a different dynamic in your own life or the life of your new family, then the dynamic that you grew up with. And now we're going back into that dynamic and it is really common for
things to be triggered with your post-traumatic stress.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (03:46)
Absolutely. It, you know, I think that's one of the hardest parts about these family gatherings is that you do your own work. You're on this healing path. You're feeling really good about yourself. I'm speaking about myself thinking, I've grown so much. And then you go right back into the family dynamic and you're like, why am I acting like I'm 15 again? Or why, like what is happening? I thought I was over this.
Leina (03:58)
Right?
Yes!
Right. Yeah, that's a really common thing. I love that you're bringing that, like making that overtly conscious. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (04:23)
So the other thing that complicates these family gatherings is that a lot of times alcohol is involved.
Leina (04:31)
Correct. Yes. In fact, it's kind of unusual for alcohol not to be involved.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (04:36)
You're right. And as we know, alcohol can just kind of exacerbate a lot of these dynamics. It's, you know, I think a lot of us are trying to take the edge off. You know, that's what I definitely was looking for when I was drinking and it ultimately just creates even more problems.
Leina (04:51)
Sure.
Yes. Well, and the other thing is, is that a lot of us grew up with, dynamics that were impacted by alcohol. So I'm not saying everybody had an alcoholic family, but that when there was abusive alcohol or excessive drinking that, that creates an environment in which there's a ton of rigid thinking. The parental expectations are pretty high, which is really ironic.
And there's a lot of criticism, judgment, focus on how things are going to look, that kind of thing. So all that then comes into play when you gather with your family.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (05:46)
So, okay, we know this is going to be tricky. We're gearing up in the US for Thanksgiving and of course the religious holidays coming in December. What can we do about this?
Leina (06:02)
I think that this is a conundrum because there's always something in us that is striving for a connection with our family. That's just a biological imperative. And there's always this hope that it's going to be different. And that is not delusional. It's the hope that's born of this desire to connect in a meaningful way. And when we understand that this is...
We tend to do magical thinking actually around the holidays. Many of us do. So we either over plan and think we're going to control every aspect of it and it's finally going to be the holiday that's going to be a good one. Or we have this sense that we should be able to control other people like other family members and how they engage or respond to things. And all of that is going to...
Well, first of all, it doesn't work. And second of all, it contributes to more internal or emotional pain and distress. So being able to recognize that there's very little you can control and that what you can control is your emotion regulation. And sometimes we can't even do that.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (07:07)
Yeah.
That's what we're trying to do. Yes, we're trying to create those new neural pathways and new behaviors.
Leina (07:24)
That's what we're trying to do.
Right. And if you think about how neuro pathways are set up, we have these memorized responses that then get wrapped in fats called myelination and that creates a shortcut for our brain. And when we go back into an old dynamic, the old neuro pathways get triggered. And so we have to be careful of being like prepared, anticipating,
not judging ourselves, that kind of thing.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (08:00)
I think that's great advice. Going back to magical thinking for a second, I think that, you know, we, I suffer from that even now with my own family, with my children, you know, if everything's great, if I get all the right things and we do all the baking and all of the traditions that no one will cry about their gift. Yeah.
Leina (08:16)
sure.
Ever?
Dr. Amy Hoyt (08:30)
Everyone will be so thankful and grateful.
Leina (08:33)
And that's not how it works, darn it.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (08:36)
No, because we're dealing with humans and little humans and, you know, and my children are quite lovely and and they're human.
Leina (08:46)
Yes, they are. And they're human. The way you've raised them, you and Kevin, is that they're allowed to speak up as long as it's not abusive. So if they don't like something, they're allowed to say it and you don't guilt them or shame them and just thinking that they're going to hurt someone's feelings if they say, I'd rather have it in blue. You guys are good about being okay with that and not taking it personally.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (09:07)
Yeah.
Yes. And I think honestly, we got that from my parents, mom and dad, really, really good at it. But so that's that magical thinking. I just wanted to touch on that, that it can be our current situation with our current spouse or partner and children or our extended family, but the holidays are, they are a wonderful, fun,
Leina (09:17)
Yeah, mom was really good at that with gifting. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (09:39)
time to connect if we can focus on the connection.
Leina (09:43)
Exactly. Focusing on connections require flexibility, like flexible thinking, lowering of expectations, being able to go more with the flow, being able to find the nugget of connection when something isn't going right.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (09:49)
Exactly. Yes.
Yes, let's talk about that a little bit because we have a complicated family, our family of origin, one of the, I guess the mantras that I've been trying for the last few years is no contention for myself. I mean, I can't control anyone else, but when I engage with others, I...
Leina (10:20)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (10:29)
I really am trying to minimize any contention and division because that's when I feel the worst, quite frankly. And so.
Leina (10:37)
Right. Yeah. Well, it drives disconnection and it feels really awful.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (10:42)
It does. It does for me especially. And I'm sure other people, but now that I'm aware of that, I can't unknow that. And so as we go into, you know, a family gathering, focusing on that nugget of connection, I love the way you said that because, there's going to be things that people say or do that trigger you at that gathering. And it happens to all of us. It happens to me. It happens to all of us.
Leina (11:04)
Right. Yes.
Absolutely.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (11:11)
And so focusing on that nugget of connection instead of focusing on maybe the critical statement or the dynamic that is so familiar and really frustrating.
Leina (11:29)
Yes. I have, I have a really great memory of one of my students when I was running my nonprofit counseling center and I was doing supervision. And one of my students really emphasized with the couples that she was working with that the behavior, much of the behavior they, the other partner was engaging in
was because of how much they loved or were concerned about the other person. And it's the first time that I think I had a conscious awareness of how when we pay attention to intentionality, we can sometimes depersonalize behavior.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (12:08)
that a little bit more.
Leina (12:09)
Sure. So this is really hard to do, but it's a great place to start, I think. So when your mom says, wow, you've gained weight, which is terrible. And moms don't do that. You can. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (12:23)
They don't.
Haha
Leina (12:28)
Whether it's true or not, don't say that. So what we can say is we can say to ourselves, that's my mom expressing concern.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (12:31)
Yes.
Leina (12:40)
Now, sometimes that's not gonna be true. So don't tell yourself a lie. So if your mom has always been critical and she's always been nitpicky about your appearance, don't tell yourself it's the way she expresses concern if that's just part of how she engages. But in general, we can look for the positive intention in some of these behaviors or comments that people made.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:04)
That is a ninja. That's like next level ninja. I don't think I could do that with a you've gained weight comment. I'd be like, I be gaining weight at my own house. Bye.
Leina (13:07)
Yes it is.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:19)
Man, I'm sorry that there are limits and that is, man, that's rough.
Leina (13:22)
Well, we and we talked about before we started recording, we talked about some canned or automatic responses we can engage in. is a great time to introduce that. See, if somebody said to me, I gained weight because this isn't a thing for me. This isn't a sensitive topic for me. I would start laughing and say, my gosh, I'm so glad you noticed. Thank you. And it would,
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:47)
Mm-hmm.
Leina (13:48)
it would really throw them off and I'm not trying to throw them off. I'm just like, all right, well, whatever. Yep. I've been hitting those carbs real hard these, this season. Right. Or I would say, you have a, opinion about my body shape right now.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:55)
Yeah.
Hmm
Leina (14:06)
Or it's important to you to make a comment about my weight. I wouldn't say it aggressively. So that skill is the skill of reflecting back instead of engaging. So somebody's throwing you a hook like you're fishing and they're waiting for you to grab it with your mouth. And then they're going to yank back and reel you in. And what this does is it keeps you off of the hook. So you don't respond except for to say,
Dr. Amy Hoyt (14:11)
Mmm.
Leina (14:36)
Why don't you have an opinion about that?
Dr. Amy Hoyt (14:40)
That's super interesting. Yeah, that is next level skill.
Leina (14:43)
I know a lot of this is next level skill, but you know, I always talk to my clients. Like we're good. If we want to feel better, we have to figure this stuff out. We might as well start trying.
And, you're going to, you know, we all suck at new things at first. So don't be surprised if you remember like one hour later or two days later. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (15:05)
I know what I should have said. Yeah. Yes. Well, let's see. Let's talk about some some other canned phrases. One of the things you've taught me is the phrase, you might be right. It's very disarming to people. So let's take the weight issue off the table because I'm feeling triggered just thinking about it.
Leina (15:22)
Mm, right.
Okay, okay, let's take it off.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (15:33)
But let's do something more like.
Why haven't we seen you lately or we haven't seen a lot of you?
Leina (15:43)
That's great. That's great. Cause it's very common.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (15:46)
Yeah, so what would be a great response for something like that? Because you might be right, it sounds a little snarky.
Leina (15:55)
Right. So you might be right comes it's more effective with things that like keep coming up from the past. So, I just wish you had graduated from college and then you really would have had a better job. Yeah, you might be right. Moving on. Right. Or with with the election coming up, you could and somebody says, I can't believe you didn't vote for so and so.
They clearly have the best platform and you say, you might be right and then you move on. So it's always about not taking the hook in your mouth, like not getting hooked.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (16:32)
Right. Right. And I think we're pre-recording this so the election will have already happened. But, you know, I wish so-and-so would have won. Or if only, yeah, you might be right.
Leina (16:39)
Yes, exactly.
Mm hmm. Yes. Mm hmm. Yep. Even if you don't think they're right, you're putting the might in there and that helps. So as far as like parents or other family members trying to guilt trip you by saying, you know, we haven't seen you very much lately or a really common one is, sure wish I could spend more time with my grandbabies. So something along those lines.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (16:52)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Leina (17:13)
Then you say, yeah, you have some feelings about that, but you don't engage in a conversation. You just reflect back what you're hearing. And then they'll say, well, of course I have feelings about that. I really miss my grandbabies. Yeah, I can see that's important to you. You're not trying to solve the problem of your family members upset feelings. You're just recognizing their upset feelings.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (17:22)
Mmm.
I like that. Yeah, that is really, really a good skill.
Leina (17:48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think that's really valuable, some of those things. And then another thing that I do, sometimes I draw it for my clients on the board is I draw this person, the stick figure walking down the road, and then I draw a hole and then more pavement and a hole and more pavement. And I talk about how what we're trying to do with our communication is somebody says something and we can jump into that hole and start spinning
with the other person around it, or we can jump right over the hole and keep on going. And so it's about not engaging in things that, you know, these are memorized dance steps we've been doing for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (18:32)
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's avoiding that hole. One of the things we talked about, and we have talked about in other episodes is how helpful it can be to have some external, cues such as a time limit on how long we're going to spend at the gathering or, you know, taking two cars.
Leina (18:36)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Absolutely. Taking two cars is my favorite because I'm always ready to go before anyone else is.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (19:02)
if
Yes, and that allows for an exit when you feel like your spoons are used, right? Another suggestion that we've given in the past is if possible, have these family gatherings at a public place, at a restaurant or a park or somewhere that just kind of
Leina (19:13)
Right.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (19:28)
shifts it enough to where it's gonna be trickier for those exact dynamics to come out, especially if you're going back into an environment that has been abusive.
Leina (19:38)
Right. And we're not talking to people in Michigan or Wisconsin when we say this, have your gathering outside. are plenty of states.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (19:43)
In your ice fishing cabin. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Leina (19:49)
Exactly. That's four by four. We're talking to people who live in a climate that that's more doable because that can really alter the dynamic. I know in our family, because our mom would our mom would literally do like eight, 10 hours of work and then the dinner would be done in like 30 minutes. Dad started booking restaurants for us for Thanksgiving and it
Dr. Amy Hoyt (19:56)
Yes.
Leina (20:17)
really change things like my mom was much less distressed. She got to enjoy the holidays. She could stay connected with us. So there's a lot of thinking outside the box options that you could take a look at. Most of us don't have control over what our larger family does over the holidays. So that that is a thing too.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (20:37)
Yeah. The other thing is that if you don't have the resources to go out to a restaurant, there are other options like I think most grocery stores offer some sort of Thanksgiving meal prep if that would help take some stress off your own plate, which would allow you more reserves, more spoons, if you will, for the rest of the day.
Leina (20:58)
Totally.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you can ask people to contribute. You could also do something that would turn everything on its head and you could do a crazy Thanksgiving dinner where everybody just brings their favorite meal and you cook what's important to you. And then you treat it as a really fun, funny way to gather where if you have eight pies, then bring it on. Where's the whipped cream and with ice cream?
Dr. Amy Hoyt (21:33)
Mm Yeah, I think that's great. So essentially, one of the things that's going to help is by alleviating the stress of
the expectations of this perfect traditional meal, it may allow you more reserves to deal with the dynamics that are very tricky.
Leina (21:54)
Correct. Correct. And some people will have, you know, a lot of times families will have different, like when you're married, you'll have one spouse, you're going to their family at one point, the other family at the other point. mix things up. See about having a brunch, see about having a lunch, see about bringing favorite soup or
dessert recipes and serve a big salad and some turkey. don't know. You, there's just lots of ways that you can change things up that will help with expectations.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (22:32)
Ultimately, going into our old family with some of the dynamics that still persist is really challenging and we want to recognize that. We want you to give yourself a lot of grace and do the best that you can.
Leina (22:52)
Yes. And the best that you can is different on different days. It depends on if you've got enough sleep and what you're worried about. And if you had to crunch to get work done before you could get off for Thanksgiving, you know, understand that your best is not a consistent, level that we're always reaching for.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (23:16)
So thank you so much for joining us once again and we look forward to being with you next week.
Leina (23:22)
Have a great week everybody and good luck.