Real Stories from Sunnyside Med - Using Medication to Quiet the Voice w/Ian Andersen

Today we're continuing the conversation around Sunnyside Med - I’m joined again by co-founder Ian Andersen to talk about what’s new, his own personal experience taking medication, and what members are actually seeing in the real world. We get honest about what the typical experience looks like — the wins, the challenges, and even the side effects — so if you’ve ever thought about getting a little extra help to quiet that voice that says just one more, this is a conversation worth hearing.

Learn more about Sunnyside Med at https://www.joinsunnysidemed.com.

Want to drink less with no pressure to quit? Visit https://ctbk.co/4doo5dq for a free 15-day trial of the Sunnyside digital app.
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ABOUT SUNNYSIDE: Sunnyside is the #1 alcohol moderation app that helps you drink less without any shame, guilt, or pressure to quit. Optimize your alcohol habits to achieve benefits like sleeping better, losing weight, feeling more energy, and saving money. We know that an all-or-nothing approach doesn’t work for everyone, so we focus on helping you set your own goals, celebrate small wins, and build a lasting system of accountability. As a result, 96.7% of our members see a big drop in their drinking after 90 days.

Disclaimer: This podcast is not intended as medical advice, and the views of the guests may not represent the views of Sunnyside. If you’re concerned about your health or alcohol use, please consider seeking advice from a doctor.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mike Hardenbrook

#1 best-selling author of "No Willpower Required," neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert.

What is Journey to the Sunnyside?

Journey to the Sunnyside is a top 1% podcast, reaching over 500,000 listeners every week. It’s your guide to exploring mindful living with alcohol—whether you're cutting back, moderating, or thinking about quitting.

While Sunnyside helps you reduce your drinking, this podcast goes further, diving into topics like mindful drinking, sober curiosity, moderation, and full sobriety. Through real stories, expert insights, and science-backed strategies, we help you find what actually works for your journey.

Hosted by Mike Hardenbrook, a #1 best-selling author and neuroscience enthusiast, the show is dedicated to helping people transform their relationship with alcohol—without shame, judgment, or rigid rules.

This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the leading platform for mindful drinking. Want to take the next step in your journey? Head over to sunnyside.co for a free 15-day trial.

Disclaimer: The views expressed in our episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. We’re committed to sharing diverse perspectives on health and wellness. If you’re concerned about your drinking, please consult a medical professional. Sunnyside, this podcast, and its guests are not necessarily medical providers and the content is not medical advice. We do not endorse drinking in any amount.

Speaker 1: 00:56

Today's a continuation of the conversation around Sunnyside Med. I'm joined again by co founder Ian Anderson to talk about what's new, his own personal experience taking medication, and what members are actually seeing in the real world. We get honest about what the typical experience looks like, the wins, the challenges, and even the side effects. So if you've ever thought about getting a little extra help to quiet that voice that says just one more, this is a conversation worth hearing. Okay, Ian.

Speaker 1: 01:32

Thanks for coming on today.

Speaker 2: 01:34

Glad to be here. Good to see you again.

Speaker 1: 01:36

Well, we're good. Yeah. It's good to see you. We, you know, we only talk every other day or every day. So, but, you know, let's jump into this because, you know, Sunnyside Med has been the new development within the company.

Speaker 1: 01:49

We've had some conversations. I had Nick on the program here. We've talked about it before. But as things move along, we have some new developments, new talking points, and most importantly, results in customer stories that you can share. And before we get into that though, and also you talking about your personal experience taking Naltrexone, why don't you give us a little bit of the rundown and reiterate what Sunnyside Med is?

Speaker 2: 02:15

Of course. So Nick does such a good job explaining what we're doing with Sunnyside Med and like what it means at the highest level trying to open access to for to preventative alcohol care for millions more people. But just kinda getting down to the, like, basics of what it means for our customers. Since in 1994, around 1994, there was a doctor named doctor Volpicelli who I had the pleasure of speaking to last week. It was crazy.

Speaker 2: 02:49

This this like the opportunity to talk with this guy. He's incredible. He actually discovered the link between naltrexone and the decrease in alcohol cravings. So he's the scientist that discovered it. And he's been on a mission for his whole life now since that happened to improve access to this medication called naltrexone.

Speaker 2: 03:13

And I'd like to think, I mean, we're pretty new to this space, but I'd like to think that what we're doing at Sunnyside is exactly that. We're trying to improve access to a really important medication that if provided in the right setting to the people who qualify correctly, could actually help millions of people avoid worse outcomes when it comes to alcohol. So it is a drug that binds to certain opioid receptors in the brain. And when you drink, you these are there's receptors that release endorphins. Please keep me honest here, Mike.

Speaker 2: 03:48

And naltrexone, it actually binds to those receptors creating kind of a blockage so that those endorphins aren't released. And these endorphins are the things that release the feel good chemicals that happen when we drink alcohol. So practically speaking, like, what's the effect of that? There's two really big ones that we see and that I personally experience myself. The first is that it it decreases general cravings for alcohol.

Speaker 2: 04:19

So if you take Naltrexone and normally around 3PM, you have this like buzzy feeling in your body because you know that there's alcohol in your near term future, that's actually endorphins being released at the thought of alcohol. And so naltrexone can work to actually prevent that initial activation of cravings even before you've had a drink. For many people, this is incredibly powerful because now we call it the voice. That voice that compels you to have a drink is suddenly way quieter. So that's kind of the first thing that I like to explain.

Speaker 2: 04:55

But now since cravings are decreased, you know, it's not a silver bullet. You're still gonna wanna maybe have a drink every now and then. When you do have a drink, you're going to notice that the pull toward the next drink is dramatically decreased. Obviously, I have to say this is on this podcast, we can't discuss medical advice or anybody's personal situation. So these are just generalizations that we see.

Speaker 2: 05:19

Not everybody will experience Naltrexone the same but I'd say we're seeing really high success rates with our initial group of customers. So that's sort of how the mechanism of action with Naltrexone. It works at the brain level. And for a lot of people who have tried to cut down on their drinking, whether it's with Sunnyside or with other tools, and have just found it hard to use behavior change on their own, naltrexone provides this, like, clinical pathway. Something that actually works at the brain level to cut out cravings.

Speaker 2: 05:57

And that can be such a welcome sort of, addition to their toolkit. And yeah, that's sort of the quick rundown of what Naltrexone is and what we're delivering at Sunnyside. At Sunnyside, with Sunnyside Med which is our new offering, we deliver naltrexone via a compounded medication that has fifty milligrams of naltrexone and five milligrams of b six. Some people have asked why we did compounded and it's a pretty simple answer. It keeps costs down and it improves access because naltrexone has had shortages in the past.

Speaker 2: 06:35

So that's and the b six has been added because in most cases, a lot of a lot of times when people drink, b six might be depleted. And we've seen in research that B6 may also help with nausea, which is a common side effect with Naltrexone.

Speaker 1: 06:51

Got it. Yeah. That makes sense. That's where my head went immediately. And to your point, I've taken Naltrexone and I think that especially the second point that you mentioned there, which is kinda like if I were to give a voice to my brain, you know, you have a drink and you're kinda like, oh, this feels good.

Speaker 1: 07:07

I want more. That was my inner dialogue. It quiets that. If not, puts it totally away. Yep.

Speaker 1: 07:14

And so you're not so much, like, chasing that more and more, this feels good. I want more of it because we all all wanna feel good. And so when you feel something good, you want more of it. But so you've been taking naltrexone. So walk us through, like, how long you've been taking it, what your experience has been like.

Speaker 2: 07:32

Yeah. And I I started taking naltrexone in 2024. It was the summer, and it had been about six months since my father passed away. And I was really proud that I'd made it through that period when my father passed away without actually leaning on alcohol at all. That was kinda cool for me.

Speaker 2: 07:52

I I that's one of those things that I think a lot of people can relate to. Traumatic experiences can draw us to wanna kinda self medicate a little. But in the summer, I think I started overdoing it a little bit. And I can't say it was I don't know exactly why, but I found myself just over drinking more than I wanted to. And I think there was a lot of stuff going on in my head at the time.

Speaker 2: 08:16

And after a couple weekends of I I I was still doing the thing where I don't drink on weekdays. That's been a staple of my behavior for years now. That really keeps me healthy and happy. But when I was drinking on the weekends, it still had this ability to get get away from me. So I decided to do what any good sunny cider would do, I think, which is do some research because education is is really power and it feels really empowering in in a health space like this.

Speaker 2: 08:47

So I doubled down on the research and learned that, you know I reminded myself that getting into like binge drinking habits, it's not unusual. It's it's quite common. And also, it's the alcohol really doing its job. When you have a drink, you're because of the way the endorphins work and your brain activity works, you're compelled to drink more. And some of us might be more predisposed to those behaviors or it's just deeply ingrained.

Speaker 2: 09:16

So I found my way to this medication called Naltrexone. And I have known about Naltrexone for a few years, but I didn't really know about it as deep as I think I should have, being that we run Sunnyside, a mindful drinking company. But we've been so kind of focused on the behavior change side, is amazing that it works so well. But there was this medication that I read about that could help people fight cravings and could work in binge drinking scenarios. But I still had a lot of this stigma and fear around going online to a telemedicine website that I'd never heard of and placing an order.

Speaker 2: 10:01

Because what does that say about me if I'm looking for medication? Does that mean that there's something bigger with my issues? Is medication this thing that puts us a label on us? I had all these swirling thoughts. But the medication came and I did something that I'm really proud of.

Speaker 2: 10:18

I told my wife right away. I was like, I'm gonna try Naltrexone. And she was kinda nonplussed, which was I think the funniest reaction. She was like, cool. Let me know how it goes.

Speaker 2: 10:27

And I kinda wanted her to like rah rah for me a little bit, but I think that was probably the reaction I needed, you know. This was my own personal thing. So I took the medication. I was really excited to try it. Just like kinda geeking out about about this.

Speaker 2: 10:41

I took the medication and I felt pretty stoned the first day which is a very common side effect. This kind of dizziness, stony feeling. And the best way to describe that first day is, and I I now realize after months of studying naltrexone, it was doing its job. The best way to describe it is I tried to think about having a drink and got no enjoyment just from thinking about having a drink. Whereas typically, just thinking about having a drink would just fire me up.

Speaker 2: 11:08

This is deeply ingrained habits. On day one, I reacted positively to Naltrexone. I'm in a bit of a unique camp. There are people that respond very quickly to Naltrexone but we have to set the expectation that for most people it's gonna take thirty days plus of consistency to feel that reduction. We don't want people to think that it's this thing that everyone gets immediate results on.

Speaker 2: 11:32

In addition, I'm a little unique because I had very very few side effects. No nausea, no sleeplessness, no tiredness. Tiredness just a little bit in the afternoons but that went away very quickly. So I responded very well to Naltrexone. I take it daily and it has helped me tremendously.

Speaker 2: 11:55

I, again, I wasn't drinking on weekdays, but now since I take medication, I don't even think about drinking. And if I do choose to drink on the weekends, I've been keeping it way more in control. And for that, I'm really proud of myself. And I think it's something that millions of people should have more access to. And I just wanna emphasize, I should not I did I had no reason to feel shame or guilt around getting medication.

Speaker 2: 12:23

Your inability to stop drinking, like if you're a vantage drinker or a nightly wine drinker, isn't a moral failing. There is so much going on in the brain level, the neurochemistry, the deeply ingrained habits. And if you could take a science based approach to help you combat those cravings that are at the actual brain level. So take a science approach to attack a science problem. You should feel empowered.

Speaker 2: 12:51

You shouldn't feel shame at all. And that's the mission that we're on with Sunny Side Med. We wanna completely flip the script on how medication is prescribed and perceived in alcohol care.

Speaker 1: 13:02

Yeah. And I love this conversation because, I mean, it's almost you you went a little bit all on your own at that point, but I think we're talking about this almost as if it's a new conversation on a drug that's been around for a long time. And part of that is because, like, that conversation and even in my own research and on my own history, I really always associated medication with deeper seated more further along like relationships when it came to substances. But the truth is is that we're talking about is that you felt at that time that you needed a little extra help, and we're talking about, you know, overdoing it on the weekend, which is, like, so common. Totally.

Speaker 1: 13:43

I mean, it it's common for people that think about their drinking, and it's common for people that don't think about their drinking. It's just kind of, you know, something that a lot of people do. It's the freaking weekend. You know, let's let go. Maybe Monday, I'll feel bad about it, and then do it.

Speaker 2: 13:58

Yes.

Speaker 1: 13:58

Weekend. So talk to me about like that. So the onset, because my personal experience is when I first took it, I don't remember the stony feeling, but I do remember that it did sort of block that euphoria that comes on immediately. So is that less typical is what you're saying? Then maybe some people it takes longer, some people it takes less time?

Speaker 2: 14:23

Yeah. And it's this is a really important question. So I'm running our weekly member meetings for people taking Sunnyside Med, and this is one of the things that we wanna unpack the most. I'm gonna well, we've been calling them lately based on some conversations I had with Claudia Christian, who is a super proponent in the space, and some people may stumble upon her incredible TED Talk on YouTube. I had a great conversation with her.

Speaker 2: 14:51

She introduced me to this term, fast responders. I keep calling them first responders by accident, so I'm kinda stuck just sticking with that term. And what she did was she helped me realize in her research, she's been doing this way longer than me, is that we have to let people know that there's fast responders and they are not necessarily typical. But the thing is, the fast responders get to speak up in meetings and say, I'm having such an incredible experience. The cravings have crushed.

Speaker 2: 15:21

The cravings have been crushed and I'm I've cut my drinking down by 80% over. And then others in the meeting might get disillusioned and feel like it's not working for them. I think we need to set those people aside, the fast responders, and say that they're actually in a a unique camp. Because first of all, naltrexone is a marathon, not a sprint. If you're a fast responder or not, you're gonna wanna plan to stick with this medication for a year at least.

Speaker 2: 15:47

And this is not just us making this up. There's lots of research that supports this time period. And it's it's more about giving yourself a year to work on the deeper ingrained issues or patterns that you have and behaviors around alcohol, so that if you do move off the medication, you've rebuilt your habit system. So that's the reason that we talk about it a year. So whether you're a fast responder or not, you have to be thinking about this as a marathon and not a sprint.

Speaker 2: 16:16

But a lot of people are going to require thirty days plus of taking Naltrexone daily before they kinda have that moment and start to actually feel a pronounced decrease in cravings. But this is where kind of Sunnyside, the behavior change aspect of it comes in. During those thirty days, you should be tracking your drinks with Sunnyside every day, engaging with the community and coaching. And what we've seen I I have at least two customers of mine that I've talked to. What we've seen is well, one customer said, I didn't think I was making progress on drinking less with Naltrexone, but I looked back at my tracking history with Sunnyside and sure enough, I was already down by like 20% over thirty days.

Speaker 2: 16:59

And then another customer said that she was getting frustrated with the fact that Naltrexone hadn't kicked in in thirty days, but she was being super adherent. She was taking it daily. She was using Sunnyside. She was tracking her drinks. And she was a self proclaimed heavy drinker.

Speaker 2: 17:16

And also, quick side note, I I just I'm so happy that we can help even more people with Naltrexone now on the sort of spectrum of how much people drink. And I think this gives us the opt option to help people even on more areas of the spectrum, whether it's moderate drinking or heavy heavy drinking. She was self proclaimed heavy drinker and she was out with some friends. On a night when she would have typically gotten near blackout, she had four drinks and then the the Naltrexone suddenly kicked in after thirty days. She said she stopped at four drinks and had kinda had no idea what was happening.

Speaker 2: 17:52

It was kinda this, what is going on in my brain? I'm looking at this drink and I actually don't want it. This is a true story. She said after that, she has been drinking a little bit, but it's like one or two drinks at a time. She said that normally her buy in for drinking was three drinks to get the buzz and then finishing a couple bottles of wine.

Speaker 2: 18:12

And I think this could have been every couple days or every night. And the most amazing thing that she said, she had the whole meeting, everyone kind of captivated. She said, now what I need to do is figure out who I am without alcohol. And for her, that wasn't a scary thing. It was exactly what she wanted.

Speaker 2: 18:31

It was exactly the challenge that she wanted. And she now she had this scientific tool, naltrexone, that had slashed her cravings and she had this support from Sunnyside. She was literally in the meeting getting supported by Sunnyside and Sunnyside members. And she said she's excited for the next journey, which is to figure out who she is with alcohol and try to redefine that. She had already started doing some self care and some self exploration around that.

Speaker 2: 18:57

That's a tough moment for a lot of people when the alcohol suddenly becomes not the focus, and they do have to explore who they are, build new habits, and kinda figure that out. But we we're here to support you on that journey at Sunnyside, and we it's a beautiful thing when people get to that point.

Speaker 1: 19:19

Wow. Yeah. That's an incredible story. And, I mean, I think either way, you gotta figure it out, but it sounds like which direction you back into it or or go head first into it. You know?

Speaker 1: 19:29

It sounds like it just depends on how you get there. And so talk to me about these Wednesday calls that you do. So you host these Wednesday calls. What's that all about? What are you guys talking about?

Speaker 1: 19:41

What are they?

Speaker 2: 19:43

Yeah. It is our new member our new Sunnyside Med member meetings where we strongly encourage people to hop on a Zoom call with us. You can it's completely anonymous. You can have your screen on or not. And I I hosted with another one of our coaches, Tyla.

Speaker 2: 20:00

She's awesome. She's a scientist by trade, which is crazy. So she has a deep understanding of a lot of the sort of science behind alcohol and Naltrexone. But our job on this call is to remove sort of questions and concerns and fear around starting a new medication, give you the confidence to trust the process, and then like set you on the right path with all the best practices so that you actually improve your odds of success. And I wanna kind of go through some of the things that I've honed my pencil on that I've been redoing the meeting over and over again to make sure that I'm giving the exact right information.

Speaker 2: 20:39

So it's really important that people understand a couple key tips when they're starting their medication journey with naltrexone. Otherwise, you might actually get into a state where you're not improving your odds of success, and thereby you get frustrated and then you stop the medication. So a couple common patterns and things that we see. First of all, side effects are real. And a lot of people experience them.

Speaker 2: 21:05

There's no way around this. And it's our responsibility to make sure people are aware of this. So side common mild side effects include nausea, sleeplessness, little bit of dizziness, maybe some restlessness at night. Nausea is the most common. And to combat these, it's really important to take naltrexone with fluid and water.

Speaker 2: 21:28

We've talked to countless people that have been taking the pill without fluid and water, and that's a game changer. So that'll help all the side effects. The the second thing to reduce side effects is to start low with the medication. We call this titration. Our recommendation in our protocol is to start with a half pill, so twenty five milligrams.

Speaker 2: 21:50

And so you're gonna wanna start with twenty five milligrams and you're gonna want your first day on Naltrexone to be a day that you don't go to work. I strongly recommend this. We had somebody that said they couldn't stay awake at work on their first day of Naltrexone. Do it on a day when you don't have to go to work and you don't have a lot of responses. So that's probably gonna be a Friday afternoon or a weekend or something like that.

Speaker 2: 22:12

Just give yourself the space to feel it out and see how it affects your body. If you're, if you experience strong side effects at twenty five milligrams, go down to twelve and a half milligrams. Just cut the dosage down. What you're gonna wanna do is stick with the lower dosage, whether it's twelve and a half or twenty five for seven to ten days or until the side effects are completely gone. You may not have any side effects, but we wanna prepare you for the idea, the potential that you will have side effects.

Speaker 2: 22:38

If you're at twelve, go seven to ten days until you don't have side effects, then increase to twenty five until you don't have side effects, then go to fifty which is the final recommended dosage. So sounds kinda basic, but those, all of those things should be strongly considered. And then a really important thing here, we can't emphasize this enough, timing is everything with naltrexone. You want to take naltrexone one to two hours, let's just say one hour, before you typically have your first drink or your first strong craving. For most people, this is going to be around three or four or five in the evening.

Speaker 2: 23:20

And the reason is because naltrexone is really effective at about one hour of being in your body. And you want it to be really effective so that it's doing its best job at decreasing cravings. If if if you took it in the morning and you had your first drink at twelve hours later, it's actually gonna be significantly less effective due to its half life, which is about five or six hours. So we have had people who were taking it with their daily with their morning vitamins, and they take their morning vitamins on an empty stomach. So multiple things that are challenging here.

Speaker 2: 23:58

The first is you took it without food. The second, you're taking it twelve hours before your first drink. So then when you have your first so you might have some nausea and then when you take your first drink twelve hours later, it's not effective. So when we've coached people to change their timing, it has changed everything. So yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:13

Those are the big ones. Timing, dosage, take it with food and water. And then we've we've already talked about this, but it's worth emphasizing again. Everybody is different. And what we wanna really emphasize here is trust the medication.

Speaker 2: 24:31

Trust that the medication is doing its job even if you don't necessarily feel it. And while you're taking the medication consistently for thirty, sixty, ninety days as you're onboarding, Start doing the work on your behavior change so that they're gonna start like, you're gonna be prepared when the Naltrexone starts to kick in and start working on your cravings. Yeah. It's not a linear pass and it's it's a marathon, not a sprint. I'm seeing a lot of buzzwords.

Speaker 2: 24:56

Yeah. The the other thing I wanna

Speaker 1: 24:57

do Those things are really important, though. You know? And as you're saying those and I'm thinking through it, like, I was what was it? A a fast responder to the medication. However, at the time, I lacked the adequate structure.

Speaker 1: 25:13

I lacked, knowledge. I didn't I was I was just, you know, going on my own kind of stuff. Yeah. To speak. But without any any of the experience or knowledge that I have today.

Speaker 1: 25:25

So I actually think that it would have worked out really well for me given some of those things that I know now. However, without all of that, it's it it can be magic, but it's not gonna be the magic bullet for for any individual without proper instruction, guidance, and also put together the habit, you know, in tracking and support, then you've got something that actually could be life changing. And you know what to do with it when you're recognizing it, like the the experience of that woman because she's actually looking out for things. And then when she knows she has to make this big change, she knows she has to come and she has the support with Sunnyside to be able to start making these these changes in her life.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Yeah. Exactly. We we also have we also see that some people are kind of worried about what happens if they accidentally skip a pill. And it's worth emphasizing nothing happens really. Like, you should just pick it back up the next day.

Speaker 2: 26:26

I haven't been perfectly compliant every single day for the past year and a half. I've I've accidentally skipped a day or two. Just pick it back up. You won't experience withdrawal, then you most likely won't re trigger a side effect. That that that's it should be easy to pick it back up.

Speaker 2: 26:42

So it's okay if you miss a day. Then there's this other thing where people ask, can I I'm going to a wedding or I'm going on a vacation? I already know that naltrexone makes alcohol less fun and less rewarding because that's literally what it's supposed to do. Is it okay if I skip skip it for the wedding or the bachelor party so that I can have more fun? Simple answer here as your Sunnyside coach is no.

Speaker 2: 27:11

That's not okay. And the reason is because you have to go through these experiences that are challenging, where you think that you wanna have fun, but you know ultimately deep down inside that the smarter thing to do is to stick stick to the program. By sticking to the program, you're going to end up drinking less. You're going to have just as much fun. You have to prove to yourself and show yourself that you can have just as much fun in these situations, and you're gonna feel like a million bucks in the morning, and you're gonna be proud of yourself.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Those are all super reinforcing behaviors that you want to develop as you're taking the naltrexone journey. So it's a pretty firm no. You should not get into that habit. Because if you do get into that habit, you're actually just training your brain in the wrong way. You're basically telling your brain that it's okay.

Speaker 2: 27:58

You're gonna you're gonna spike your dopamine like crazy during that weekend in artificial ways. And you're kind of like, you're not undoing the work that Naltrexone's doing, but you're not helping it. Now, if you do do that, give yourself grace. That's what we're all about at Sunnyside. Naltrexone is a pretty forgiving medication.

Speaker 2: 28:17

Give yourself grace, take it back up again the the next day. The when next you're

Speaker 1: 28:23

when you're If anybody who hasn't seen the video, I'm like sitting here smiling because I know I've done that. Like, I even knew at the time, it was very effective if I took it. But if I didn't take it, and I would, like, I do remember a moment, like, taking it out and just being like, no. Like, I know I wanna go out and do this x y z tonight and then not take it. And then I'm like, I just didn't have the the knowledge and the structure, like I said.

Speaker 1: 28:49

But, yeah, like, I am sure many people that have taken it, if not all, have that question in mind.

Speaker 2: 28:57

I've been tempted as well, a lot. And the but I've, for the most part, stuck with it even on periods when I was going to drink. But there's also there's something a little bit frustrating with Naltrexone, which is that you you can drink when you're when you're taking Naltrexone. It is it's safe to drink on Naltrexone, and I think in some arguments, you can say that it's actually most effective. Well, not most effective.

Speaker 2: 29:28

We don't we don't condone drinking here, of course. But, like, most of our customers are taking naltrexone while figuring out what their future with alcohol looks like. And so that means they're probably still going to drink for this foreseeable future while on Naltrexone. For me, just to share my personal experience here, drinking while on Naltrexone is just less enjoyable. The buzz is not that interesting.

Speaker 2: 29:53

It's it's kind of swimmy, kind of foggy, and sometimes and it could be triggered on only a single drink. So you it's it's not un pleasant, but it's not nearly as interesting as being ostinatrexed. And this is hard sometimes because we're so used to having a drink and having it lead to euphoric feelings. And then lots of conversation, and the night kinda gets blurry. And we're we're very drawn to that idea of creating the the really fun night.

Speaker 2: 30:29

And so you have to kinda face the reality with naltrexone that alcohol is not gonna be as fun anymore. We have to remind ourselves, we're literally here for that. Like, to make alcohol less fun and rewarding in our lives so that we drink less of it. So yeah. If you're on if you're taking Naltrexone and drinking is just less enjoyable, that's good.

Speaker 2: 30:50

That's good. Because if it was more enjoyable, you'd be back to that chase. So just embrace it. On Naltrexone, I find that I can have like three drinks and it's not as good as before Naltrexone, but that's fine. I I'm still enjoying myself.

Speaker 2: 31:07

Still get a tiny buzz. And then I'm kind of like getting the social experience with from a couple drinks that that I'm here for.

Speaker 1: 31:17

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let's be real. I mean, we wouldn't be having these conversations. People wouldn't be listening to the podcast or using Sunnyside if it was all just good times and fun.

Speaker 1: 31:28

And, you know, we have to live with ourselves 99% of the time outside of the that moment of having a couple drinks and sometimes just skipping or foregoing that little bit of pleasure to then get to where we actually wanna be is totally worth it.

Speaker 2: 31:42

Yes. Exactly. I a a big theme of these meetings that we've been having is just a a a inclusivity amongst the community of people who drink. I wanna be delicate with how I say this, but the out there, and anyone that's listened to this podcast know that we care a lot about this concept. The options out there currently and still largely exist around sobriety and all or nothing approaches.

Speaker 2: 32:14

And if the customers that are coming to Sunnyside Med, don't those are nonstarters for them. Like, they don't wanna enter programs that say, for you to get help, you need to commit to sobriety. That's that's there's a lot of cognitive dissonance there. Most of our customers starting with Sunny Side Med don't know what they want their outcome to be, and they don't wanna think that far ahead. They're just at a point where they know alcohol is causing more harm than good in their lives.

Speaker 2: 32:46

Like, let's just call it what it is. So they want help with that. And when they get help with Naltrexone and Sunnyside, it creates this amazing clarity of mind where they can then go take that next step of decision making. Okay. I I don't have cravings anymore, or they're, like, way less strong.

Speaker 2: 33:04

Now what do I wanna do? I've already cut my drinking down by 50, 70% just by taking Trexone and Sunnyside. Maybe sobriety actually isn't my future. I feel great. So it's I I just wanna emphasize, like, that's my philosophy around Sunnyside Med is we aren't an all or nothing system.

Speaker 2: 33:24

We a a thousand percent support sobriety. Like, our program, Sunnyside can now better support sobriety pathways than ever before. And and that's incredible. But by and large, most people are joining us, you know, not when they've hit rock bottom, I'm putting that in quotes, because we can unpack that whole concept in a different episode. They're not joining Sunnyside Med when they've hit rock bottom.

Speaker 2: 33:49

They've hit they've joined Sunnyside Med when they're getting an inkling of a problem. And we're gonna help you make sure that you don't go further down that pathway with with proven tools.

Speaker 1: 34:00

You know, let's jump into that a little bit because I think it's an important topic to discuss, which is you mentioned like maybe a sobriety program. We can even go as far as extreme as like somebody saying an inpatient program would just be like, hey listen, like either cognitive dissonance whereas like that's not the route I want or that's way more extreme than what I'm dealing with here. How would we address this situation where maybe this actually could help somebody, but their initial knee jerk response is to say, medication is like almost like an admission that I have like this serious problem.

Speaker 2: 34:36

Medication is empowering. Like, it is that's the word that keeps being used over and over in our member meetings. A lot of people are saying it's a game changer. They're saying it's a miracle. I'm not promising that.

Speaker 2: 34:48

I can't promise that because of FDA regulations. But but empowerment is this word that keeps coming up. So there's one customer in particular that I'm thinking of who had a lot of shame around her drinking. She would she retired around the age of fifties, and she's now a couple decades older. And she's drinking every night for like those couple decades.

Speaker 2: 35:18

And she knew that she wanted to make a change, but she told me that she's never talked she never talked to her husband or daughter about it. And there's a specific traumatic experience in her childhood that she knows exactly led to this situation where she feels shame about talking about her alcohol use. Mind you, she a couple drinks a night. Like, she's that nightly wine drinker. It's kinda the opposite of me where I'm like, I don't actually think about alcohol during the day, but if I if I have a drink, I gotta be careful.

Speaker 2: 35:46

We there's all these different archetypes of drinkers. And so she started taking Naltrexone with Sunnyside. She's immediately seeing a reduction in cravings. And what this did, it just it made her so happy. It lit her up so much because she felt empowered.

Speaker 2: 36:01

She felt like she had a tool to actually, like, gain more control over her drinking. She told me that since she's been on naltrexone, she talked to her daughter about it. She talked to her husband about it, and she's talking about it in this more scientific way. Like, hey guys, I'm taking this medication that's helping me with, at the brain level, with cravings, and I feel amazing. I feel like I can talk about this now without shame, because I have proven tools that are gonna help me.

Speaker 2: 36:30

And I've learned through Sunnyside and through my research that it's not a moral failing and that I can actually make changes at the brain level. So she even said that in her community where she spends time with friends who drink a lot, they're asking her how and why she's drinking less. And instead of them saying, why are you drinking less? Do you have a problem? They're saying, tell me more.

Speaker 2: 36:53

Like, open me up to this new world. Like, you're still enjoying a drink with us, but you're drinking 90% less? So I think the best way to explain to people is through real life stories about why medication should be empowering. And it I don't it's it's hard to convince people. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 37:16

This is this is truly the mission that I think that we're on with the podcast, Mike, and like what we're doing at Sunnyside for the next ten years. It's like to destigmatize alcohol. And to say that, like so alcohol use disorder is a word that we're getting more comfortable using at Sunnyside. We don't like the old version of that word, but alcohol use disorder basically is this wide spectrum that says, I'm struggling with alcohol, whether a little bit or a lot. And with medications, we can we can address drinking almost anywhere on that spectrum.

Speaker 2: 37:57

Okay. So Sunnyside is not a rehab, and we're not AA. So if people need those programs, we probably aren't a good fit, like categorically, because those people probably need sobriety and that kind of full system of sobriety support. But for everybody else on that spectrum, Sunnyside with medication behavior change now offers a totally inclusive, empowering way to start making change with with your alcohol use with no shame, no guilt. So yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:30

Great question. I I don't have a great answer. Like, I gotta tell it through stories. I gotta tell it through my own personal story, and we just have to see others around us embracing this idea that medicine can be used to help with alcohol and that alcohol like, let's shift the conversation from blaming the person to saying, can we help that person with medicine? Yes.

Speaker 2: 38:55

I don't know. Do you have an idea?

Speaker 1: 38:57

Well, no. I think you said it exactly the way I'm thinking as well. And, I mean, in the one main word that you said there is destigmatize the Yeah. The actual conversation here and remove the shame. And, like, if we're thinking in terms of medication, I think the stories are amazing ways.

Speaker 1: 39:13

But then also maybe we could turn it around to the way they think about other things. Like, if a doctor was, like, gonna prescribe you something for something that was ailing you, would you say, no, I'm not gonna take that. It hasn't gotten that bad. If that's maybe the way your approach is with most medications, then okay, But that makes if you're like literally keeping this one off in a different realm from the way that you analyze other things, I feel like that's because of the the stigma that comes along with it or potentially some realization inside of you thinking that you're admitting that it's, like, way out of control. And even if it is, that's okay.

Speaker 1: 39:52

But thinking about medication, don't think is necessarily attached to the level of where you're at with alcohol. And then I think another thing around that medication is that a lot of people get, without wanting to move forward, they get worried about, like, what are the side effects? And and rightly so. Like Mhmm. You know, what are the things that it could do and this, that?

Speaker 1: 40:12

And it might be a sticking point. But then at the same time, the kind of the funny thing is is that we'll go and have drinks without thinking two seconds about it, but there's no doubt about it that the health consequences to doing that is much worse than probably any of the side effects that we can be facing.

Speaker 2: 40:31

That's been the mindset of most of our customers. I'm I'm I'm experiencing some some side effects, but I'm gonna work through them because I'm here to drink less. And if I keep down this path of drinking, that's worse for my body and my life and my psyche than a couple weeks of side effects. So I'm yeah. I'm right there with you.

Speaker 2: 40:52

You made me think of something. I don't know. Maybe this is a good little anecdote to to close things on.

Speaker 1: 40:58

By the

Speaker 2: 40:59

way, doctor Volpicelli, the guy that I said discovered that naltrexone can help with alcohol. The call with him was fascinating. We're gonna get him on this podcast, by the way. He's such a good guy. He has this vision that in the doctor's office, there's a new questionnaire that doctors give to people that say, hey, I think I need some help with alcohol.

Speaker 2: 41:24

And it's a questionnaire that will lead doctors to properly prescribe medication. And I think this ties them to that fear of medication being associated with complete addiction or rehab scenarios, because I know from conversations that some of our customers have gone to their doctor, their primary care doctor, and said, can I get Naltrexone? And they said, no, but you can go to AA, Or I don't prescribe naltrexone, but I know that I have a pamphlet here for AA. Like, wait, wait. There's a huge disconnect here.

Speaker 2: 41:58

I'm in a doctor's office. I know I'm telling you there's a medication that can help me with cravings, and you're not gonna prescribe it. This is not a generalization of the blanket statement, but it's we've heard this over and over again. And so Volpicelli wants to create a questionnaire that will guide doctors to properly prescribe medication. And the cool thing that I the thing I really liked about his scenario was he wants so how do you describe this?

Speaker 2: 42:26

He wants naltrexone to be available even for people who are sober, who are struggling with cravings. That's very cool. So now, like, if you're on a sober if you've been sober for six months, but you go to your doctor and you're like, doc, like, I'm stressed out. I've I've I'm feeling like I need a drink to de stress. Let's get you on Naltrexone.

Speaker 2: 42:47

Okay. You take Naltrexone in that scenario, and your cravings are suddenly decreased, and now that voice goes away, and you can stick to your sobriety plan. The reason I like that story so much is that's how medication can be used. It can be used even for people that aren't drinking. That's when we talk about the spectrum, that's powerful for and so the other scenarios would be like, hey, doctor.

Speaker 2: 43:08

I never drink during the week, but when I do drink, man, I have a hard time stopping. Okay. Let's let's test out naltrexone. It's really safe. It's been FDA approved for thirty years.

Speaker 2: 43:16

Or I'm a nightly wine drinker for the past twenty years. The doctor already knows you should drink less. They can see it. Okay. Let's I think you

Speaker 1: 43:23

should try

Speaker 2: 43:23

naltrexone. And or do I have to quit? No. You don't have to quit. Let's just give it a shot.

Speaker 2: 43:29

Let's let's see if it, like, cuts down on your daily drinking. So I just love this.

Speaker 1: 43:34

Like Wouldn't wouldn't that be the dream, though? I mean, think about it. Like, I mean, you already know, oh, I'm gonna go up into the mountains. I know my allergies are gonna kick in while I'm out there. I'm gonna take my allergy medicine before I go.

Speaker 1: 43:45

Like, why wouldn't we take the same approach that we do to so many other things other than the fact that that just because it's alcohol with its history and its cultural attachment and its stigmas and its name and its lack of education at even the physician level, unfortunately.

Speaker 2: 44:02

Yeah. I totally agree. This is when I was talking to Volpicelli and Claudia Christian, again, I wanna get both of them on the podcast, this has been their life's work. They they wanted to improve access to the point where anyone on the AUD spectrum can have access to medication. So, yeah, I I just hope we can do their their work justice at Sunnyside.

Speaker 2: 44:25

We'll continue to work with them.

Speaker 1: 44:26

Keep them going off the rails too? Like, if they, like, somebody was saying that sober that, you know, maybe they would break their sobriety, but it wouldn't turn into this, you know, big bender or something like that. Is that also part of that philosophy?

Speaker 2: 44:42

I mean, hell yeah. Yeah. A 100%. Like, that that, based on what we know about naltrexone, should help them. So let's say they started taking the naltrexone, but then they were still compelled to have a drink out of out of, like, I need to shut my brain down.

Speaker 2: 44:59

Having Naltrexone in their system should strongly support the idea that they're not gonna go in a bender. And that they're gonna try to they're gonna be more likely to keep it in control. And then, you know, we they might be a little frustrated they break broke their sober streak, but at least they can say sweet. Like, okay. I did that thing.

Speaker 2: 45:18

I I gotta give myself grace. I'm glad I'm not

Speaker 1: 45:20

on Naltrexone. There were The mental health of life, you know, being able to recover from breaking even sobri the just the use cases alone are just Yeah. Really exciting. Exciting for mental health and for people to be happier.

Speaker 2: 45:36

Yeah. The the more the deeper you go on this resource, the more compelling it gets. Claudia Christian did a short documentary on YouTube about ten years ago called One One Little Pill, I believe. So if people are interested, they can check that out. And she's interviewing a guy that struggles with, like, bender episodes once a month.

Speaker 2: 45:58

Like deep deep bender episodes where you go on a multi day drinking experience. And this guy was, like, full fully an open book. And he he filmed him himself taking naltrexone for the first time, takes the pill, waits an hour, and starts drinking like he normally would. Stops at like five drinks. And then the next morning, here's here's kind of a real kicker for him.

Speaker 2: 46:22

This is a pretty severe scenario. The next morning, he usually drinks the next morning because he's on a bender. I know this is not everybody can relate to this scenario, but I also know some people can. He didn't drink the next morning. He wasn't compelled.

Speaker 2: 46:36

So then Naltrexone had dulled the cravings enough that the next morning, this guy that had these deeply ingrained habits was able to stop. And that's so, again, the spectrum here that Naltrexone can help on is is absolutely incredible. It can be very it can be many different scenarios.

Speaker 1: 46:53

Yeah. And I think that that's the conversation really is just access to be able to explore whether or not this can work for you. Doesn't matter what your situation is. If you're curious about it and you think it might help and maybe you've tried some things that haven't worked, most people have. I know I did.

Speaker 1: 47:12

And, you know, now we have something that is proven to work for many, many people and is over has oversight with it, you know, through Sunnyside.

Speaker 2: 47:25

Yes. Exactly. Well said.

Speaker 1: 47:29

Well, okay. Before we go, maybe maybe if you can share, I don't know how much you can, is there one particular story that you really just love of a conversation they've had with somebody that that we could, like, end on?

Speaker 2: 47:43

Yes. Thanks for asking. I'm gonna go with so every week, there seems to be this one, like, shining example of a story. It literally gives me chills. It's the best day day of my week.

Speaker 2: 47:55

So on the last meeting two days ago, there was a guy that was kind of he had his he had his video on and he was kinda being quiet, but he decided to speak up during the discussion portion. And he said that he had taken Naltrexone about ten years ago, and it had worked really well for him. But he had no support system wrapped around the Naltrexone. He was just doing it on his own in private. And he that led him to go go sober for like a year or two.

Speaker 2: 48:24

But fast forward to today, he had picked up drinking again because of some really stressful events in his life. I think he said he was doing around 10 drinks a day. But he had a job and he had he was studying to do something. And he just he knew pretty quickly that knowing him and his biology and his habits that he needed to reconsider naltrexone. He said that he found us through a Chad GPT search, which as a marketer makes me very happy.

Speaker 2: 48:52

And he was immediately drawn to the support system that we offer around the medication, that it's not just giving you the pill and letting you go. He cut down his drinking from, like, 10 to, like, two overnight. He's a very strong responder to naltrexone, and he already knew that. But on this call, the thing that was really special was he was just like, you guys are the real deal. I'm not tooting my horn here, but he was like, you guys are the real deal.

Speaker 2: 49:19

Everyone in this call is giving me the support that I need. I love the app. I love the community. I'm using the coaching on a daily basis. This is what I wished I had ten years ago, was the all the support wrapped around the medication.

Speaker 2: 49:32

He was a delight. And, I might even be able to get him on the podcast, which would just be so cool.

Speaker 1: 49:38

Oh, yeah. That would be

Speaker 2: 49:39

So that's my that's my latest story. It it really made my day.

Speaker 1: 49:44

Yeah. And, I mean, getting to interact with people, I totally get that. That's, like, the best thing. And It's the best. Seeing and just seeing everybody has their own way to get to where they want to be.

Speaker 1: 49:58

And sometimes it's harder and sometimes it's easier, but it's always great to hear it when people are starting to feel confident and good and being being where they want to be.

Speaker 2: 50:08

Yeah. And one thing one nugget that he said, which a lot of our members share let's not unpack this too much. But he said, I'm never gonna call myself an alcoholic. I'm never gonna put a label on myself. The fact that you guys just avoid that entirely is another reason that I'm here.

Speaker 2: 50:25

Like, guys are accepting of me. You're gonna help me hit my goals, and I don't have to put a label on this. So I thought that was really powerful.

Speaker 1: 50:34

It is. And I think anybody listening can relate, especially why do it if there's no utility to it. Some people need it, but me personally, I don't think your behaviors define your identity.

Speaker 2: 50:49

I don't either. And I feel very strong. I I I feel like even if you do if you even if you did call yourself that at one point, you don't have to call yourself that for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1: 51:00

Yep. 100%. Well, Ian, this is awesome. This has been fun. We always have great conversations on and off the camera.

Speaker 1: 51:07

So if anybody's interested in in learning more about it, where can they go? And also, why don't you share a little bit like what they can expect, you know, first next steps?

Speaker 2: 51:19

So you can go to sunnyside.co, our our main website, or you can go to join sunnysidemed.com for a more direct access. Or if you already have the Sunnyside app, just tap the pill icon up there in the top of the app. What to expect, you'll start with a medical intake, where you provide information that a doctor reviews. Not us, but actual doctors. And they'll prescribe the medication if you qualify.

Speaker 2: 51:46

So there are some reasons you may not qualify. It's usually like other medications that you're taking, or that that's usually the big one, but there there could be some other cases. A lot of, a high percentage people, a high percent get qualified, partly because it's a relatively, a very safe medication. You'll go through that intake process, and then about, I think our average is in three days, you'll get the medication shipped to your door. It's pretty discreet.

Speaker 2: 52:13

It comes from our, the pharmacy that we work with, so it'll be labeled as that. We're working on getting like our own label on the bottles, but that kind of stuff is is kind of expensive and takes time. You'll get your medication and then you'll get a little starter guide that we built for you. It's in the form of a PDF right now just because I wanted people to be able to print it out. And that starter guide will give you kind of those, first basic steps and best practices so you know exactly when to take the pill, how much to start with, what to expect in terms of side effects.

Speaker 2: 52:43

And we encourage you to also start using the app. We're building features in the app specifically related to the medication experience like reminders. We're plotting your medication on our analytics, and we have specific resources and community specific for the medication. And then join one of our member meetings that I host. That's sort of your first little onboarding experience.

Speaker 1: 53:09

Love it. That's great. And yeah, anybody listening, go to sunnyside.co and I you should go hang out with Ian.

Speaker 2: 53:16

Yeah. Thanks, man. Alright.

Speaker 1: 53:19

Thanks a lot for coming on today.

Speaker 2: 53:20

I love it. Thanks.