Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Your go-to digital marketing toolkit: Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders Podcast.
In-depth discussions with leading voices in tech marketing, uncovering the challenges they face and the innovative solutions they're implementing.
Our goal is to provide you with sincere value, perspectives, learnings, and transparent advice you can apply directly to your digital marketing strategy.
This podcast is a proud production of MKG Marketing (https://mkgmarketinginc.com). Our tailored digital marketing strategies for B2B SaaS organizations are transparent and measured: making every impression count.
Follow the action, updates, and learning snippets so you don't miss out on a future episode: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ttwtml/about/?viewAsMember=true
Want to grow faster on LinkedIn with 70 percent less effort? Check out Aware (affiliate link): https://www.useaware.co/?via=mkg
00:01:07:15 - 00:01:32:17
speaker
Yeah. He.
00:01:32:20 - 00:01:56:17
speaker
Yeah.
00:01:56:19 - 00:02:03:03
speaker
That.
00:02:03:05 - 00:02:21:17
speaker
That's.
00:02:21:19 - 00:02:46:12
speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much. Heck of a welcome. I appreciate it.
00:02:46:14 - 00:02:53:17
speaker
That's absolutely.
00:02:53:19 - 00:03:09:19
speaker
I.
00:03:09:21 - 00:03:22:24
speaker
Ready? Born. Ready.
00:03:22:26 - 00:03:25:07
speaker
I.
00:03:25:09 - 00:03:45:19
speaker
Love that. Perfect. Ready? Yeah. Oh. Can I be both all right? Marketing. Marketing. Formula one.
00:03:45:21 - 00:04:23:11
speaker
Formula one. Marketing. Marketing. Marketing. Oh, I'm going to go marketing. But it could be both. Easily.
00:04:23:14 - 00:04:30:23
speaker
Time.
00:04:30:26 - 00:04:38:07
speaker
Yep. First, to get the praise and the blame on both sides of the fence.
00:04:38:09 - 00:04:58:20
speaker
And.
00:04:58:23 - 00:05:18:04
speaker
Yes, absolutely. All unpacked. Kind of sophisticated and scrappy together, but. Sophisticated, I admit. A little back party, but like you said, over 20 years of marketing experience. And I won't claim to be Trevor level of seller, but I was a seller for about five years as well. So it's 25 years. I don't claim to have seen it all, but I've seen a lot.
00:05:18:05 - 00:05:40:14
speaker
I've worked in many different types of environments. I've sold, and marketed through channel direct to different buyer levels. Had many challenges along the way, learned a lot successes, stumbling blocks. So sophisticated is really taking all that experience. And I think, one of the things my customers benefit from is I can identify patterns more quickly now, just having seen so many things.
00:05:40:14 - 00:06:00:29
speaker
And so they bring me in. There's often, some kind of roadblock that I need to jump into the data, figure out and help them overcome quickly. And then on the scrappy side, I work exclusively with startups, so, you know, there's not always budget, there's not always product market fit or, you know, firm GTM strategy. It's about, driving growth organically.
00:06:01:01 - 00:06:20:06
speaker
What can we do either for free, or likes to free and then use those successes to maybe build a budget down the road. And so it's really looking at, many traditional marketing channels and figuring out the right message and the right value to make that company shine against its competitors. It is all just muscle memory now, 100%.
00:06:20:08 - 00:06:33:11
speaker
I'm sure Trevor can understand, too. He's been been in his world for a long time as well.
00:06:33:13 - 00:06:42:18
speaker
And he's. The.
00:06:42:20 - 00:07:02:24
speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I really like a flywheel approach, too. And I think it's, a word I used to be very against, but I haven't figured out a nice replacement for it. But, you know, flywheel means you're building, you're launching, you're optimizing and relaunching, and it helps companies move more quickly without having to put the pressure of it's going to be perfect this first time around.
00:07:02:24 - 00:07:41:13
speaker
And getting stuck in that planning mode, it's like, let's get things going. We'll learn more quickly, and kind of adjust as we go along. So that's kind of part of the scrappiness too, is, is, you know, let's get things out the door and learn and quickly adjust, and not get stuck in the planning mode, which I do see quite a bit.
00:07:41:16 - 00:08:00:27
speaker
Yeah.
00:08:00:29 - 00:08:06:01
speaker
Yeah.
00:08:06:03 - 00:08:25:02
speaker
Yeah, yeah. Great question. Early on in my career, I was more B2C, so I kind of learned that space. And there are actually a lot of applications with B2C that you can pull into B2B, which is really interesting because very different, sales cycles and stuff like that. And I also worked, selling a, B to G to government.
00:08:25:02 - 00:08:45:28
speaker
So I knew that space as well, which is of an entirely different motion, much harder audience to reach very, very long path to sell. So, you know, a couple different spaces there, but the majority of my career has been in B2B, B2B, SaaS, kind of the high tech space, last 12 years has been in cybersecurity and kind of adjacent IT market.
00:08:45:28 - 00:09:08:10
speaker
So most of my initial customers I've gone in stayed in that space as well. So I know the cybersecurity and IT buyers. Well, I had, you know, customers when I worked in house where I've spoken to and gotten feedback on messaging and campaigns. So I thought, but I initially started my business. I kind of stay in that safe space because I know that market better than, you know, the rest.
00:09:08:10 - 00:09:13:09
speaker
So.
00:09:13:11 - 00:09:17:10
speaker
Yeah.
00:09:17:13 - 00:09:40:12
speaker
It's it's. Yeah.
00:09:40:15 - 00:09:43:19
speaker
Yeah.
00:09:43:21 - 00:10:07:07
speaker
Yeah, yeah, a great question. I haven't seen it shift as much as I hope it will in the future, but what I think makes sense that we can take from B to C is remove the barriers to let the customers walk through your door and become a customer. And I think in complicated B2B, GTM motions, we make it so hard for the customer to learn about you to test the product.
00:10:07:09 - 00:10:28:08
speaker
And I get it. The sales, average deal size are much higher, you know, typically in a B2B deal. But if we remove that friction in the process, we probably get customers through the door easier. So this is an area that I do push on my existing customers about is like, how do we make this form less than 25 fields, like, you know, so that it doesn't scare people away?
00:10:28:08 - 00:10:46:07
speaker
Or instead of a demo call, you know, what can we do? So it's like removing that friction in the buying process. And I think that to me is like the number one thing we can learn from B2C because they make it often self-serve. And that doesn't work for every B2B company. But I think we can learn a lot from that, and I hope we see more of that in the future.
00:10:46:09 - 00:11:01:12
speaker
Because I think it will help B2B companies sell more quickly.
00:11:01:15 - 00:11:06:04
speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:06:06 - 00:11:13:10
speaker
That's.
00:11:13:12 - 00:11:16:29
speaker
Right.
00:11:17:01 - 00:11:20:21
speaker
And.
00:11:20:23 - 00:11:44:12
speaker
They.
00:11:44:14 - 00:12:03:21
speaker
It's so interesting. I hadn't heard that yet. So now they need to learn from the B2B side. So we need to. We need to collab across. Like I said, there's a divide, and we can definitely be learning from each other, so that's really interesting. Be interested to hear how they adjust moving forward.
00:12:03:23 - 00:12:38:29
speaker
Obviously Forbes or that that's, fighting words for some people, but I think, very accurate in many cases. How do we remove the form but without losing attribution and, you know, getting the data that we need to, you know, justify marketing progress and, and say, well, there's a strain there that I think, I don't have the answer for entirely, but, definitely agree that overall forms just complicate things for the customer.
00:12:39:02 - 00:12:54:23
speaker
Yeah.
00:12:54:25 - 00:12:59:17
speaker
Yeah.
00:12:59:19 - 00:13:17:05
speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I try to balance form versus no form. Like if it's an informational piece of content to not make them fill out a form to learn about your product. Right. Like, we want to get that out to people. You know, if it's a big research report that the company paid for, you know, I get that we have to get that.
00:13:17:05 - 00:13:36:08
speaker
And I do still support getting, you know, big, expensive pieces of content like that. But I see some infographics, you know, gated and I just think, don't do it, you know, that's just going to irritate. It has to be something that the audience feels good about after they fill out a form to actually get a piece of content that they learn from, even if it's not about your business, they're learning about their space.
00:13:36:08 - 00:14:01:08
speaker
And, challenges may be similar. You know, title levels are overcoming through this piece of content that I think it's great. So it it's a balance to me. But never get all or, get all for me, it's somewhere in between. There. Is.
00:14:01:10 - 00:14:31:27
speaker
Yeah. Free. And I like data enrichment, too. I know it's not always cheap, but if you can enrich the data on the back end so the forms don't have to be so long, like that seems like a decent investment to make. Where again, removes friction, but you still get the data you need. Because I get it. You know, as marketers we can't, you know, go back and show value if, we don't have any clue how many people have seen this, you know, report that the company banded together to work on so.
00:14:31:29 - 00:14:37:25
speaker
Yeah, I think.
00:14:37:28 - 00:14:58:14
speaker
That. Yeah. Yeah, I well, so I, I like to control it by giving them options. Maybe not a free form text, but a pick list or something. I think it's super helpful because I think especially with my customers being startups, they don't always have the ability to track. So sometimes it's we have no idea where, you know, these demo requests are coming from or the form fields are coming from.
00:14:58:14 - 00:15:23:05
speaker
So if you can get some information, it can be really helpful for early, attribution and tracking stuff like that. So I like it, but control it. I haven't done, just an open box free for all. But that would be interesting. I think.
00:15:23:07 - 00:15:27:07
speaker
Yeah.
00:15:27:10 - 00:15:37:23
speaker
Yeah. Thanks.
00:15:37:26 - 00:15:43:11
speaker
Mark.
00:15:47:24 - 00:16:11:21
speaker
This could be more personalized in that target. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
00:16:11:23 - 00:16:18:11
speaker
Yes. Yeah.
00:16:18:13 - 00:16:49:26
speaker
I could go on all day. I won't, but I could. I truly a lifelong racing fan, thanks to my parents, we're racing fans and grew up around fast cars. So, loved formula one and many other, you know, racing environments. So when I got asked to bring this, global partnership to fruition for vastly, you know, it was the quickest years of my career, I will say, but, you know, I had just a couple weeks to figure out what's the message, what are the channels we're going to use, and which races are we going to try to bring customers to and launch it?
00:16:49:26 - 00:17:12:16
speaker
So it was pure chaos behind the scenes. But then bringing customers to these races, what I learned is, although it's a very expensive investment for a company, the, you know, prospects agree to come to these races with you, spend three full days with you, and so you get an insane amount of time with them that you really would never get on an hour discovery call or a 30 minute demo call.
00:17:12:16 - 00:17:37:11
speaker
And so it really acted as, deal accelerators for us, which was great, because that's how I showed, you know, the value of the sponsorship in general. But on the fan side of the house, getting to experience the VIP, world of the Paddock Club and Formula One and, and meeting the drivers and the team leaders and learning about aerodynamics, which is not clearly my background at all.
00:17:37:14 - 00:17:57:20
speaker
Learned a lot of really cool things. And, just got to experience stuff that, you know, the average fan doesn't get to do. You can't, you know, go into the garage and actually see the cars and, and stuff like that. Unless you, you have a partnership with one of the teams too. So just absolute, memorable moments, that, you know, definitely highlight of my career.
00:17:57:20 - 00:18:05:17
speaker
I would say.
00:18:05:20 - 00:18:13:18
speaker
That.
00:18:13:20 - 00:18:38:26
speaker
Yes. Yeah. So part of the, sponsorship comes with a certain amount of tickets at a certain amount of races, and all of that is not for family to enjoy. It was bringing potential customers in, and then showing them a really great time and again, just getting that face time with them as well. And so it's really about bringing that new prospects that we otherwise had no relationships with into these specific races globally.
00:18:38:28 - 00:18:53:18
speaker
And then, you know, they get to experience, you know, that VIP, throughout the weekend at those different races. So I've got to kind of go to a couple different races globally. And it was just really awesome.
00:18:53:20 - 00:19:03:19
speaker
You.
00:19:03:21 - 00:19:19:23
speaker
Yeah, it's a mix of getting to know them on a personal level. You don't want to, you know, start with hitting them on the head on like are you going to buy? You know, it's not a good look. Getting to know them as a person. And they want to get to know you as well. So again, it's like this more personal side of a potential customer that you just don't normally get in the first time.
00:19:19:23 - 00:19:39:10
speaker
You, you know, you meet them. And then what I found was that they naturally wanted to start talking about challenges they were having at their company where we could solve. And so it really opened that door. And I was feverishly taking notes on my phone to then be able to deliver back to the folks that would actually be following up with them down the road.
00:19:39:12 - 00:19:59:25
speaker
So it created kind of this, a trust that we had to when, like, Trevor needed to call, these folks back to try to have a true business conversation. They were ready to, to pick up the phone and have that conversation. And so it's getting to know them on a personal level. But then there was a lot of good anecdotes around data challenges they had where I knew, you know, I could help them.
00:19:59:25 - 00:20:11:28
speaker
So a little bit about a little bit of.
00:20:12:01 - 00:20:33:21
speaker
Yeah. And you know, throughout my career you I've been in demand. But in-person events is an area where I have, a lot of experience as well. So I've developed a mini formula one kind of scrappy startup, version of that, with go karting. And again, it's pick a city where you want to drive, you know, net new customers and, and give them the best possible go karting.
00:20:33:29 - 00:20:52:20
speaker
Is it the same thing? Of course not. But, you know, you bring food and drinks and then have, you know, just a fun time with like a happy hour after the driving and that's where you get the conversation starting. And so again, these can act really as kind of door busters, for, for companies. And it's way more affordable.
00:20:52:22 - 00:21:30:09
speaker
And we bring kind of the fun of Formula One into it that way. But those in-person events, to me, it's a little old school, but nothing beats a handshake, you know, like meeting people in person. It really it works. It works better than just over the phone all the time. So.
00:21:30:11 - 00:21:50:25
speaker
Absolutely. I and I thought maybe that would die off a year or two after the pandemic. People got sick of each other again. But, I'm noticing conferences especially. And I know Trevor and I go to some of the same security industry conferences, but they're back up to pre-pandemic numbers. You know, people are still going out to these global conferences, meeting in person, you know, having trade shows in addition to the curated events like I mentioned.
00:21:50:25 - 00:22:17:26
speaker
But yeah, I think people are still hungry for it, and it's because it accelerates conversations so much faster. Digital space still extremely important. I think any business that hasn't kind of cracked that nut yet would probably be in a bit of trouble. But I am a huge believer in in-person events, so really.
00:22:17:28 - 00:22:27:11
speaker
Yes. Yeah.
00:22:27:14 - 00:22:34:17
speaker
Okay.
00:22:34:19 - 00:22:55:20
speaker
Yeah. You really hit the nail on the head. It's probably the number one question or first customer interaction I have is like Uber leads. You know, sometimes it's just get them in the door. And so I, I think that I'm constantly, especially for the earlier stage startups trying to balance the let's not completely skip strategy and just jump into doing things.
00:22:55:22 - 00:23:14:16
speaker
But I know we need quick wins. So I'll outline. Here are things we can do today that don't, you know, bring you x number of leads. But we should be doing this other thing on the side so that as we do more and more of this, it's more targeted. And we are bringing in the right people because that's going to be the best use of what resources you do have, whether it's budget or headcount.
00:23:14:16 - 00:23:46:22
speaker
You know, they're strapped, you know, to what they have. So, it's a little bit of both, but it's doing some quick wins. And then, I'm a huge believer in win loss analysis. And anybody who knows me that's on the call now, will know that I always talk about win loss analysis. There's so much data, even for early stage startups where you can, kind of look at your existing customers, the wins, the losses and, and translate that into your early demand strategy and then map out programs that will help you get there.
00:23:46:25 - 00:24:00:04
speaker
The data is messy. It's incomplete, we know, but it's your best guess at what works for your business at this particular stage. And using that data is like a goldmine.
00:24:00:06 - 00:24:11:19
speaker
Good. And.
00:24:11:22 - 00:24:18:26
speaker
I.
00:24:18:29 - 00:24:28:09
speaker
Guess.
00:24:28:11 - 00:24:46:24
speaker
Yeah. Well, I when I decided to for my business exclusively to work with startups because I must be kind of crazy that I love that type of environment of building a plane while you're already flying it. Some of my favorite moments in my career where I was working at a startup. So I think it, you know, must take a special breed, to want to do that day in and day out.
00:24:46:24 - 00:25:03:11
speaker
But I like the challenge of trying to figure out how to go to market for the first time. So, I, I'm very selective with the types of clients I take on to make sure that it's in the right space where I can do all those things for them. I am doing it on my own by now.
00:25:03:11 - 00:25:20:27
speaker
By choice. I do have some subcontractors that, are willing and able to jump in, but for now, I think, the simplicity of working, you know, solo has worked really well so far. And so I just am selective with, with who I join and work my tail off for those customers when they're, when I'm with them.
00:25:20:29 - 00:25:29:00
speaker
Yeah.
00:25:29:03 - 00:25:42:19
speaker
Yes. It's.
00:25:42:21 - 00:26:07:11
speaker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I'll go back to win loss analysis. It's mentioned number two in this in this podcast already. But, you know, I really like to look, at the data we have available and help that lead me to where, where are we going to invest our time and resources to be scrappy. So if we know we have a customer that kind of looks like this, how do we reach more of those?
00:26:07:11 - 00:26:25:13
speaker
And how do we leverage this customer's testimonial to reach more like that? So the scrappy part is that none of that process I just mentioned is, cost any money. It's using the data we have and, and creating lookalikes and then using channels to go get get those folks. So I think the win loss is it's often missed or it's done.
00:26:25:19 - 00:27:07:23
speaker
And the data is never looked at again and it's not translated into anything actionable. And it's it's kind of lost. So that's often where I start is in whatever data we have available and use that to translate into how do we get more customers, like we have now to help the business grow.
00:27:07:25 - 00:27:18:07
speaker
And. Yeah.
00:27:18:10 - 00:27:39:08
speaker
Absolutely. And probably no surprise, it's it's social channels and email. Social is the easiest way to go out and look for the audience you actually want and talk to them. It's better to do that organically when you're first starting off anyways and, you know, hammering them with, with ads and stuff. So activate those channels organically and then email.
00:27:39:08 - 00:27:57:02
speaker
I mean, these are leads you already paid for. And sometimes they sit. And just as I saw Trevor say, leads are dying or they're decaying. If we're not emailing them in a thoughtful way, in a personalized way and, targeted way, and those leads are dying as well. So those two channels, surprisingly, are still under leveraged.
00:27:57:02 - 00:28:17:01
speaker
I see a lot. So those are the easiest. I mean, we can activate today. They're already propped up, you know, write some post, write some emails, learn from the engagement and keep doing it. And I think consistency is really important with those channels as well. And again, it doesn't cost anything initially. So those are usually my have to go tos to activate.
00:28:17:04 - 00:28:30:24
speaker
And get things going. No surprise.
00:28:30:27 - 00:28:38:20
speaker
Yeah.
00:28:38:22 - 00:28:49:13
speaker
Right.
00:28:49:16 - 00:29:08:06
speaker
Yeah. I still love the newsletter. I think, like you said, it, it sounds old school had, like, in-person events and letters, but, I mean, these are our channels we have available. They still work. If you have the right audience in your database and you're giving them relevant content. So just spamming with, you know, messages that don't matter to them, of course, don't work.
00:29:08:08 - 00:29:30:15
speaker
And I feel obliged to mention I but obviously I can help you get more targeted in the messaging and personalized. And there are some, some ways to achieve that at scale with a database. But yeah, as long as the message is specific to the audience, those things work. Newsletter. You know, weekly, monthly, whatever the cadence is that you decide, it's better than not emailing the database at all.
00:29:30:21 - 00:29:54:25
speaker
That's just a missed opportunity. And as far as I'm concerned.
00:29:54:28 - 00:30:14:29
speaker
When people still prefer certain channels to consume their information, again, this is not a new thing I'm sharing. But. So you could be saying something over and over on your website or on LinkedIn or whatever social channel, and people still may not see it. So if they're an email, kind of a, you know, information consumer, you have to leverage that channel to be able to reach them.
00:30:14:29 - 00:30:28:12
speaker
So I think again, it's just leveraging the channels. We have to reach people where they are at that time.
00:30:28:15 - 00:30:39:12
speaker
And.
00:30:46:00 - 00:30:55:21
speaker
Thank you.
00:30:55:24 - 00:31:19:06
speaker
Yeah, I agree. I, I try to start by encouraging, two posts a month, which sounds less daunting than post every day or post every week. Even so, get twice a month down and make it the best post you can. You know, relevant. It's new information, it's targeted to your audience. And then as you start to see engagement go up, you know, try to increase it.
00:31:19:08 - 00:31:39:19
speaker
I don't typically try to encourage, companies to do more than that because it does feel insurmountable. And I'm a huge believer in, leadership teams posting on their own channels, especially on LinkedIn, instead of just the corporate channel. And that can be even a bigger beast, to dig into. Because, you know what executive has time to be posting even a couple times a month.
00:31:39:19 - 00:32:01:17
speaker
So, I typically jump in help with writing in that aspect to give them drafts. And don't make it all about the business all the time. You know, like, I talk about formula one because it's not just me talking about marketing. It's it's another topic that I'm passionate about, and it can drive engagement. So I try to identify topics for executives where they can filter that in and have some diversity to their content and social as well.
00:32:01:17 - 00:32:20:06
speaker
And that allows people to get to know the company on the personal level. And I think that builds trust in the audience. And it gives you a little bit of a, you know, a brand voice and tone, stuff like that. So it's a little bit of a balance of not just the corporate channels, and handles, but with the executives and other, you know, thought leaders within the company, you know, really activating them.
00:32:20:06 - 00:32:43:14
speaker
I think it's, a big task, but I think that works really well in the market nowadays than just posting on a corporate social handle.
00:32:43:17 - 00:32:59:23
speaker
Yeah. Very supportive. Always. It's just a matter of, you know, the question that always comes after is like, how am I going to do this? And so again, it's usually not asking them to write all their own posts and do the physical posting to figure out who can help with that. And that usually is the, the only hurdle is the time piece.
00:32:59:23 - 00:33:30:02
speaker
So once we, I have a little bit of a formula for again, finding those topics that matter to them and then mapping posts out to that. Once we kind of crack that nut, it's just getting the drafts done for them and and keeping their time commitment as little as possible.
00:33:30:04 - 00:33:42:05
speaker
Yeah.
00:33:42:08 - 00:34:06:25
speaker
Great question. So I always lay this out as we have leading indicators and lagging it indicators in terms of KPIs. And so still look at still look at leads. Those are the earliest indicator of, of something. But I always stress the most important lagging indicator is, is pipeline and opportunities. You know, and depending on the business that can be months down the road.
00:34:06:25 - 00:34:23:14
speaker
And so that's why you have to track what's happening earlier on even if it's form ville. And then we kind of keep an eye on that initial lead. You have to have both. So I don't call it a day if we have a certain number of leads in a month or, even sales, picking up leads and saying, these are qualified.
00:34:23:16 - 00:34:37:21
speaker
It's really that longer view of, you know, do we generate business opportunities for the company? At the end of the day, that's how they're growing. So to me, that's the ultimate KPI is, it's revenue. But it takes time to get there in the, in the B2B world. So we'll report on other things in the meantime.
00:34:37:21 - 00:34:50:23
speaker
But, to me, that's the the ultimate goal.
00:34:50:25 - 00:34:55:13
speaker
For.
00:34:55:16 - 00:35:24:23
speaker
Us. And.
00:35:24:26 - 00:35:50:26
speaker
I. Yeah. About a job at that point. Well, that's why I right mention number three of win loss analysis. Like that's what this is. I'm writing a book on this topic. It's it's that's how that I feel about it. But if you start with that then it leads you to the quality over quantity conversation pretty naturally because it says, here's how we know this is how we we know we're winning here.
00:35:50:29 - 00:36:08:22
speaker
We want to do more of we're we're already winning, and we're not going to spend time and effort in bringing in leads where we're losing. Why would we do that? You know, the data speaks for itself. So I stress the quality over quantity for that exact reason. And I will fight against bringing in just fluff at the top of the funnel because, you know, they're not going to go anywhere.
00:36:09:00 - 00:36:48:09
speaker
And again, I always anchor it in that initial win loss audit. And that usually helps the conversation. The data speaks for itself and it's not data I created. It happened before I even, you know, join this customer so that they usually helps in the flow of bringing in, you know, high quality, even if it's lower volume.
00:36:48:11 - 00:37:04:15
speaker
Just.
00:37:04:17 - 00:37:10:00
speaker
That.
00:37:10:02 - 00:37:22:18
speaker
That.
00:37:22:20 - 00:37:44:15
speaker
That's. Oh, so. It's so easy. Is what we're making it sound like, I think, No, I you know, I think each customer environment's different, And so I think I love that variety, but the reality that I'm seeing so far in my almost two years of business is, you know, every single environment's different. So no easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
00:37:44:15 - 00:38:05:05
speaker
Absolutely not. You know, it could be, but the reality is, you know, it's learning. It's adjusting, to each customer environment. And again, working with startups, a lot of times you find out their early batch of customers is not who they want their next set of customers to look like. And so I also run into those situations where you got to scrap the data and start fresh.
00:38:05:05 - 00:38:26:25
speaker
And so there's other challenges there. So definitely not, easy, but lots of variety and challenge. So I enjoy kind of figuring out, those speakers for the business. It's an interesting. Yes. Sometimes keeps me up at night.
00:38:26:27 - 00:38:34:05
speaker
A book is happening. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
00:38:34:08 - 00:38:55:05
speaker
I as soon as I complete. Right, I get it. It has to be perfect. Unlike everything else I've mentioned to that. No, I, I'm aiming well. I have no business really writing a book. I'm not a writer. I think, the concepts and the frameworks and the templates that will be in the book, I think will be useful, and help companies.
00:38:55:08 - 00:39:14:02
speaker
Because reality is, I want people to not have to hire me necessarily. They can do things around win loss audits on their own. And I think, again, the huge, missed opportunity for a lot of businesses. So my goal of the book is to make it almost a, you know, dummies guide to win loss audits and how to translate that again into your GTM strategy.
00:39:14:02 - 00:39:46:16
speaker
So I want it to be, you know, user friendly and something that all, marketers, whether they're new or, you know, seasoned, can pick it up and really utilize it. So I have a lot of work to do. But hopefully, this year or early next year, I don't know, I don't know.
00:39:46:18 - 00:40:03:02
speaker
You.
00:40:03:04 - 00:40:07:23
speaker
Yeah.
00:40:07:25 - 00:40:18:17
speaker
I think that would be the goal. You'll get an early first copy goes to you. Yeah.
00:40:18:20 - 00:40:27:00
speaker
Yeah.
00:40:27:02 - 00:40:33:02
speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:40:33:05 - 00:40:48:23
speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, LinkedIn probably the best. Yep.
00:40:48:26 - 00:41:14:14
speaker
Sure. Yeah. Oh, I love this question. So I, I played the piano when I was a child, and then during the pandemic, I got a keyboard. And, you know, there's an app for everything now. So I kind of relearned how to play. And it's sitting behind me, not in this beautiful virtual background, but in real life. And for me, it's really a creative outlet, but also a deep stressor.
00:41:14:14 - 00:41:31:03
speaker
So I'll just sit and play. Sometimes I sing poorly, while I play, and it's just, very calming. And I feel really relaxed afterwards. And so it's been really nice to be able to learn again. And I do a mix of like classical, but also some pop and songs that are, you know, current now. So it's it's just fun.
00:41:31:03 - 00:41:37:23
speaker
And that just really brings me a lot of joy lately.
00:41:37:26 - 00:42:01:22
speaker
When? Yeah. Next time, I promise. Next time, I promise I'll come prepared with a little piece for you. And I do play some Coldplay. So I saw that listed. Yes. For sure. Yeah. Do you have a.
00:42:01:25 - 00:42:45:00
speaker
Carry on. The viola is what she taught me. So we have a whole band next time to be perfect. Can't make it with the awesome.