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Elite Heat is the All Elite Wrestling podcast for fans who want more than just a recap.
Every week, Tim and Dug — two AEW fans who've been All Elite since day one — react to AEW Dynamite and Collision, break down the latest storylines, analyze the characters driving the product, and give you their unfiltered take on everything happening in All Elite Wrestling.
From weekly show reactions to PPV breakdowns, roster moves to long-term booking analysis, Elite Heat covers the full spectrum of AEW. No fluff, no filler...just two passionate pro wrestling fans who care deeply about the product and aren't afraid to say exactly what they think.
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Welcome into episode thirty-five, also known as the go-home show for Forbidden Door. Doug has rejoined us. I assume that you found your way back from some sort of four day binge that involved those little miniature chocolate donuts.
Yes? Yes. Yes. Also the jelly-filled ones.
Wow. You went big. Yeah. Uh-huh.
You gotta you do two you do two chocolate, one jelly filled, two chocolate, two jelly filled, one chocolate, one jelly filled. In that order.
Okay. Yeah, and then what? You just you start you good you you just start seeing things? Or maybe you stop seeing things. I don't
I at that point I stop. Yeah. Yeah, I I stop remembering. And I taste pennies and I stop feeling my left arm. But everything else is great.
Okay.
Okay. Yeah. Well, honestly, I don't think that's that bad. All right. So let's dive into the go-home show Forbidden Door, which if you haven't been paying attention to Collision and their social media, they made a bunch more matches for Forbidden Door. Would any of them really come up tonight? Let's find out. But Doug, would you like to lead off the heat check this evening?
No
Okay, here we go. With the heat check, what I liked. Pretty much every wrestling match tonight, I liked. to varying degrees, but I liked them. I thought the action was really good. And for the most part, I really liked the backstage stuff. I liked the packaged video vignettes that they did that helped kind of recap what people may have missed. Like,
Thekla one comes to mind and the Collision recap with the women's Owen. So that you get that you had Maya World and Athena going at it. You got to see that recap and the turn that happened there. That was really good. So I was pretty much I was pretty happy with basically the entire show.
Well and I'll I'll leave it at that until we get to other things. But how what were your likes?
Okay. I I would agree with you on on that stuff. I liked all the matches, so I won't list those individually, but yeah, I liked all of those. I'm with you to varying degrees, but there wasn't a single match that made me go like, Eee, that wasn't. There there was no match that made me go like, I didn't like it, nor was there a match on tonight's show that made me go, it was fine. You know. I thought they were varying degrees of good, but I thought they were all good. I
Mm-hmm.
Liked it when Ospreay biffed it at the beginning in the weird little Death Riders circle up thing. That made me laugh. I don't know if that was planned or not, but it made me laugh. I don't think it was either. but that made me laugh. I agree with you on the video recap of the Maya World Mercedes match. I thought that was really good. we can go into more detail on why I thought that was so good beyond just the getting you up to speed of it all, when we get there.
I really don't think so. I really don't think so.
Mm-hmm.
I liked the Don Callis Family MJF promo primarily for the shirt. That made me laugh. the Omega promo I thought was borderline, but got into my good column. I'll explain why I liked it and where it could have gone wrong.
god, yes. Yes. my god.
Okay.
but but mostly where I liked it when we get there. So those are my likes along, like I said, with the matches. What did you think was mid?
Mm-hmm.
Not much really. I I the only thing that I thought could possibly have been mid, and this is this is just a possibility. Well, you know what? I am gonna say the the actually the end in how the brawl took place in them coming out individually I understand why they did it, but that's
I just I think I've seen too much old school wrestling and I like a good pull apart where it's just more of a mosh, but I understand why they did what they did. So I'm not saying it's a complete mid, but it could I could put that in there. And the only other one that I could potentially put in there would be the Survival of the Fittest match between Red Velvet and Queen Aminata. And the only reason I would put that in there isn't because of what happened, just that we haven't
talked about these two or really seen these two for a couple for ages, really, and now they're getting a premier match. We I I felt like they didn't do enough to really ramp up to that. So it doesn't the the the getting there is what I would put the mid, but I liked the match.
Yeah, that's fair. I I liked the match, but I think you make a good point on that. I I don't I wouldn't fight you on it. I had two things in the mid column. I didn't love the backstage with Renee and Team Briscoe. I didn't think it was bad. It just didn't do a lot for me. same thing. What's that? Yeah.
Can can before you get, can you clear something up? What happened at the end of that?
What was that did did someone fart because they hung back and then they left like something smelled bad? Orange and
I don't know.
yeah. okay, I know what you're talking about now. Yeah. I that felt to me like a okay, so we always do some little bit with Orange Cassidy and Renee at the end of these. And my guess is that they have primarily improved them and they improved it again tonight and it it just didn't go great. I don't know what that was. I think it was just yeah, it the the whole segment I thought was flat.
There's nothing there.
I you know what? I agree. I should have put that in my mid and I I kinda glossed over. I it kinda snapped out of my bean. So yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I I think that that's to me, that's like the definition of mid is when I forget about it almost as soon as it ends. And so like you asking me right there what happened at the end, I was like, I don't remember. I don't remember. And that that's why I put that in the mid. This was forgettable. I I I'm gonna put the whole segment that starts with the Bucks talking to Renee but really is the fight between
Yeah.
Cope and Cage and The Dogs. I'm gonna put that in my mid again, just from the standpoint of it didn't do a lot for me. I don't think it was bad. I understand why we did it. It just didn't I didn't love it. I didn't hate it. So I put it in the mid, you know.
Yep. Mm-hmm. I would agree. Yeah.
Yeah. was there anything you did not like? Okay.
Yes. And I don't know where to place the blame on this, but I believe I counted at least three times. There was a three count that didn't get lodged as a three count because first I believe it was Ospreay who kicked out late. And then twice during the Takeshita match, Takeshita kicked out late. And it was obvious that the ref held up before the kick out. And that kind of shit just
Mm.
Mm.
Yes, yes.
Bugs me to death. That kind of thing bothers me. I I can't I don't understand. It's obvious. And even this the second one, even the announced team was like, I don't know about that.
So yeah, with the it was, I believe, the f I think it was the first time in the Takeshita and Ricochet match where he clearly didn't kick in time and Nigel was going, I don't know. I wrote down good for you, Nigel, for saying that because it was so egregious. The live crowd started chanting ref, you suck. Like you and I have been to a lot of live matches. You depending where you are in the arena, you don't always see
Yep. Yep.
Yeah. Yep.
The referee's hand. So when it's that bad that the whole arena starts chanting it, like you know you fucked up on that one. I I agree with you. That was I that that got to me too. I I'm gonna say it again. We've gotten on this soapbox before, it's been a while, but I think they should adopt the same, the exact same rule that WWE had. I think they still have it of call what you see. If they don't kick out in time and you count the three count, even though it wasn't supposed to be the finish.
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Too bad. They messed up. Not the referee. Do what you're supposed to do. And if we need to do a, you know, on the fly, have Tony Schiavone grab the mic and say, well, Tony Khan is telling me we're gonna, you know, restart the match or whatever. Like it's it's gonna suck no matter what. But don't put the referees in that position where they look that bad because the look on Paul Turner's face was like, no. Like he knew it was bad in the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And even in the the second time they did it, it was after the break. All of them at the announced team was like, my gosh. Like they all were like, I can't I that couldn't have gotten closer. Yeah, because it wasn't. It was a three. So and I don't know if Paul Turner w if the count was weird, like if he was counting faster than normal. I don't know what it was. Or if Takeshita just I I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think Takeshita just messed up. Like I I really do. Like it's it's this is where it becomes a very tough situation for me because when they shoot it, like when the cameras are shooting it, you can tell when it's the finish and when it isn't now. Because if their eyes are if the person being pinned, if their eyes are open, they're gonna kick out at two. Like you're gonna get the one, two, ooh.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Which that's a whole other tangent of we don't have to always do that. You can kick out at one. You can kick out before one. but, you know, and then if their eyes are closed, that's when okay, this is the finish. They're gonna count the three. So that part of it bothers me because it takes you out of the match a little bit. It takes you out of the false finish. But again, the false finish is everybody does it. It doesn't have the impact that it used to, I think, personally. So I don't know if
Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
If it was Takeshita shut his because from the angle, you can't really tell, as I recall. I don't know if he shut his eyes and just didn't see the hand coming down. I don't know what that is. I heard in interview with Mike Chioda, if you remember him from WWE. Yeah. Mike said he when he would count, he would go one, two, kick. He would tell him to kick. He would say he would go, you so like if you're in the arena, you'd hear one, two, and then he would quietly go kick and then he'd
Mm-hmm. Yep.
wow, okay.
start bringing his hand down. I don't know if the referees need to do that. Like if they need to tell them kick. I I don't know. But this is a problem and it continues to be a problem.
Actually.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand because the cadence is pretty solid. One, two, kick right then. Kick on two. Kick as soon as you hear two. Especially if it's early in the match. Unless you're trying to build a my god, quick win and build the drama that way. But otherwise, yeah, the the fact that it happened three times in one night was not great in my opinion.
Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And and I think that it's I think it's them a lot of it is is the wrestlers chasing the pop, you know, and trying to pop the crowd because they kick at 2.9999999. Stop doing that because you're gonna blow it. It's fine to kick it to it's fine to kick it two and a half.
Yeah. Maybe.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we
Yeah, we don't need that that close until it's really, really like you've been going, going, going, and it really looks like you're in dire straits. But anyway, I know that's well, I don't think it's nitpicking. I I think it's it's a problem. And to me, that took what was a really good show and kind of sullied it just for me. And I know I'm hypercritical because I expect I have such a high bar for AEW.
Yeah.
Yes.
No, it's yeah. Yeah.
But this has been an issue in the past and it and to see it three times in one night was just disappointing.
Yeah. Well, I I don't think it is nitpicky because I do think it hurts the product. I I genuinely do. Like when you when the knock on AEW from specifically WWE as a company, their own words, and then of course their fan base, which still is larger, when they're calling you a backwater second rate promotion, this is the stuff they can point to and go, see, we told you.
Yep. Yep.
Like I don't watch I don't think I've ever actually watched TNA, but I don't think it happens there. Cause I would he I would read about it, right? Like I read a lot of the blogs and stuff. It's not happening in New Japan. It's not happening in CMLL. It's not happening in WWE and AAA. So I mean, you can go watch your local indie promotion if you have one. I bet you're not gonna see it. I I mean, I genuinely do. I bet you're not going to see it. So
Right. Mm-hmm.
It's you're it's probable. Yeah. It's probable, yeah.
For you to be the second biggest promotion and to be, you know, trying to get to number one, you can't keep doing this stuff. Like it can happen twice because mistakes are going to happen. But at that point, like you really need to be working with the referees, whoever is in charge of that, going, We gotta make sure we get this right. And you've got to make sure the wrestlers understand you have to get it right. It's on you as much as it's on the ref. So
Yep.
Right.
Mm.
I don't know. I I I agree with you. It bothers me. I think it's a problem. I think they gotta clean that
Yep. Yep. That was my biggest dislike of the night. But otherwise I felt like it was an interesting go-home show because parts of it didn't really feel like a go-home show, but it but it did. So it it was it was really good, but it was an to me it felt like a bit of an odd go-home show.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, I I agree with you on that. We can talk some more about it as we run this thing down. So was that the I don't wanna cut you off. Was that everything? Okay. So Yeah, so I I had a couple things I didn't like tonight. The bad refereeing was one of I'm gonna be honest, I didn't like Mark Briscoe's promo at the end. I thought that was weak by his standards. You know, now if Kevin Knight cuts that promo, I'm sitting here going, my god, that was that was great.
Yeah, that was it. That was my like I said, I only had that in my dislike, yeah.
But Mark Briscoe sets a high bar when he gets on the mic. And I didn't think he was good tonight. I mean, I really didn't. and
Mm-hmm.
Now that now that you bring it up, I would probably bump that back down to mid, not dislike, but it a, I felt like it was too long and not enough was happening in it.
Mm-hmm.
Yep. And it it and it felt to me like he never knew where he was going with it. And I don't know. I thought his voice sounded a little rough. So maybe he didn't feel good tonight. And that was part of it. I don't I genuinely don't know. But it when you look at a typical Mark Briscoe promo, a lot of the time I'll sit here and tell you, I'm not sure it made sense, but I enjoyed it. I don't think it made sense tonight and I didn't enjoy it. Like it just was off.
Yes.
But if you look at those Mark Briscoe promos that we we like, they're short. They're not super long. He comes in, he rambles, he says some things that kind of rhyme, and then he's out and he goes, blah, and his, you know, teeth aren't there. This was too long. It took too long for the Don Callis Family to come out. And I think that's what took away from it, from that promo.
Yes. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Because I agree, because he started off going, let's rewind. I'm like, my God, well, how many times are we going to do that?
Yeah.
Yeah, because they'd already done the video package. Yeah, I I agree. I didn't love the promo. I I really didn't. the other thing that I can't believe I'm gonna say that I didn't like tonight, believe it or not, this hurt this hurts me. I wanna be clear. This this hurts my heart. Tony Schiavone was pretty bad tonight. I love you. I love you, Tony Schiavone. I want to be clear on that. I love Tony Schiavone. I was a WCW guy first, okay.
Exactly.
Wow. Wow.
Okay.
Same C. Yep. Mm-hmm.
I love Schiavone. I thought the first hour in particular, I thought he was struggling. Like he's talking about, you know, the whole reason that they have the monitors at the commentary desk is so that they can talk about what you and I are seeing at home, right? He's sitting there talking about like, well, you know
Will Ospreay is really, I mean, you can see the intensity as Ospreay is acting goofier than my 18 month-old lab. You know, he's in the ring making faces and making fun of himself for falling over and all that stuff. And I'm like, Tony, just I understand that's that that they want you to get that narrative over, but talk about what you see or or rearrange how you say it. And there were a couple other times where he really tripped over himself. He didn't have a great night tonight. And that made me very sad.
That's fair.
Right. Yeah. He didn't know how to pronounce the word collab.
Yeah, that was one of where I'm like, what is happening? Like he wasn't great tonight, especially in that first hour. That that that hurt me. That broke my heart.
And and and look, we he's allowed to have a bad he's allowed to have a bad night. But like you like you said, he does set the bar so high when he has even a little off night, it feels that much worse.
Yeah. Everybody is.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's usually he he and Excalibur are the two that every time out on commentary, I'm like, well, I can always count on them. Like they're going to be they're not gonna be perfect. I don't expect perfection, but they're gonna be good. You know, and Excalibur, even Nigel had a couple of moments tonight, but le where I was like, You okay, bud? Excalibur I thought was the only like really consistent one tonight.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yep. Yep. I totally agree. And to be honest, I'm just not the I'm just not the biggest Nigel McGuinness fan on commentary. I I just not
Yeah. And that again, that makes me sad.
That's fair. I I I I like Nigel when he's doing when he's doing the heel routine. W when he first started doing commentary, he was, you know, really doing the heel. He was the Lawler to Jim Ross, right? to Tony Schiavone's Jim Ross, like from the the the days when Raw was awesome. Yeah, yeah, you know. and they had a good dynamic, like
Mm, okay.
Yeah.
Lawler and JR had. And then they kind of turn Nigel a little bit so he's not as heel ish as he was. And I think they just need to let him be a heel. He's more entertaining that way.
Right.
That that could very well be, yeah.
Yeah, but that's fair. Okay. So with that, let's run this thing down, which like you said, is a go-home from live from Albuquerque, but doesn't necessarily feel like a go-home. And and I think that that plays into I talked about this last week. The the build in general to Forbidden Door has been weird to me. I I think it's missing some of the magic of Forbidden Door.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
And I think there's a lot of reasons for that. I think New Japan being sold recently is part of it. I think, you know, I mentioned this and somebody else mentioned it in in the comments of possibly visa issues. I I don't I don't know.
Yeah. Yep.
But it just hasn't felt as special as it normally does. It hasn't felt as fun. And I think that that's part of what played into, yeah, this is a go-home, but it only sort of feels that way. so like we talked about, we opened with Mox doing his little motivational speech. That was that part of it was fine. Again, really here, Ospreay biffing it is what this was. Yeah, that's the sauce right there.
Right.
That's yeah, that's the that's the sell on that one.
that led us into the Death Riders versus Brodido and Místico. Would you I know we talked about we'd like the matches, but what were your takeaways from this one, if any?
I just re I really liked it. I thought I thought Brody looked really good. I liked the the double move that he did where he actually went off the ropes, flipped over and took Mox and Claudio down. I thought that was really, really fun. I I just thought it was a really good match. I thought Brody looked really well. Místico actually I thought had a really good match near the end. I thought at first he was a little off step, but I I thought this was a fine match. You know, Death Riders got the win. I got the win.
They had the win and I really enjoyed at the end. Marina Shafir was just taunting Bandido with the belt, like had it right in his face, and was just like, You're not getting this. This, you're not getting it. And I thought that was really fun. But I mean, I have no problem with that match. I thought it was a good way to start the show. Solid action, really good in the ring. No real issues, but it didn't really feel like that go-home vibe yet either.
Yep, I I agree. I have no issues with the match. I thought it was fine. I thought when was it Claudio that that Bandido basically deadlifted in the suplex? I thought he's gonna destroy his back. Like he's gonna herniate every disc he has. And the fact that he didn't was impressive to me. I'm with you. I thought Brody looked really good with Místico. Now, granted, I for me it's a relatively small sample size.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
But I feel like every match that I have seen him do, it's similar to Kenny Omega, where there's a build and he starts kind of slow and it builds. And so I agree with you. By the time you get to the end, he's like, you're going like, man, this dude is awesome. But at the beginning, it's kind of like okay. I like seeing him on TV though. So that made me happy. yeah, I thought the match was fine. One of my biggest
yeah.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Well, I thought the match was good, but one of my biggest takeaways from this that I thought was interesting was was specifically Claudio cheating to get the win. And I Yeah, and I wonder how that's going to play into the bigger storyline because there is an argument that Mox doesn't know that he did it because the way he's positioned, he he didn't see it. And I just wonder how that's going to feed into a larger storyline. So that that is what really jumped out at me from a storyline perspective.
Yeah, that was that was different.
Curious. It may not go anywhere, but I'm curious.
No, you're right. That was one of the things that hit me. I was like, Moxley didn't see that. And you're right. That is that's one of those things to file away because AEW has a habit of taking something like that, not mentioning mentioning it for a minute.
And then seeing little things like that build and build and then and then you look and go, Well much has been happened with the Death Riders and you go, No, wait a minute, Claudio cheated here, PAC did this, whoever did that, and then now Mox is on his own or whatever happened. So I'm really intrigued and I hope they I hope they use that.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I do too. And and it feels to me when you do that, it's one thing if you do it in the course of a match and it doesn't affect the finish, right? Because at that point you can easily write it off as they called the spot in the ring. But when it's the finish, people are involved in that, right? Producers are involved in that, et cetera.
Mm-hmm.
And that makes me think they did that intentionally. And it wasn't just to try and get Claudio heel heat because he didn't I he it if that was the intention, it didn't happen, you know. So I it feels to me like we did that very on purpose because it is gonna play in later. So like you said, file that one away. I think eventually it's gonna come back around.
Right. Right.
Yep, I agree.
then it led into Renee with Team Briscoe which like I said earlier I thought was fine. I think Darby was probably the best part here. It was fine. It was just fine. The cat the cat has no thoughts. All right.
What did you think? I hate it when you hold me like this. Kat has plenty of thoughts, just not on wrestling. Exactly. Yeah, I thought that that it was weird and I didn't the end I just it it was okay. It was alright. And you're right, Darby was the best part, but
Just not on wrestling, yeah.
I Yeah.
Yeah. I I think Darby made the the the promo there. I I'm gonna say it again. I I'd really like us to move on from Roddy screaming names. I I didn't I didn't think it was that good what two years ago or whatever it was when we were doing when he first started doing it. I didn't think it was hitting the way they wanted it to. I'm very, very bummed that we're still doing it. that kind of took me out of the promo.
It was f it was fine. Weird ending. It was fine. Yeah. It was fine. Did it build heat for the match? Darby did. I mean Darby did his best, but I'm not sure anybody else did.
Yeah. It was it was a thing. It happened.
Not really. Darby did, yeah.
Yeah. So it was fine. No, it was just fine. That's all. It was fine.
I this one I'm I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah. This one I'm curious while I was watching, I was like, I wonder what Doug's thinking about this one. Marina Shafir and Harley Cameron.
I was really shocked because I didn't know who Harley was gonna take on. I knew she was in the tournament. She had mentioned it, I don't know if it was last week or on Collision, but I knew she was gonna wrestle. I don't think she had announced they had announced her opponent yet. And so when they came back and there's Marina waiting for her, I was like, that's interesting and then they're like, you know, Harley's got her supergirl on, but really she had that super girl power girl outfit. And if you know, you know, you know what I mean.
Yep. Mm-hmm. I do. Have the same thought, yeah.
You 100 percent know what I mean. So
I I thought it was a is an interesting match and I was super surprised that Harley won. Except when I took a moment to think about it, I was like actually it it does make a little bit of sense because of who's now currently in the in the finals. So But the fact that it was Marina
Yeah. Mm-hmm. I I agree with you on that. Yeah. So they did do a little bit of building for this. I think they had announced the match on social media. Cause I did I did know that it was coming and they they they didn't go into detail, but Excalibur did mention it that Harley had talked about it while on the red carpet for the supergirl premiere.
I I missed it now.
The actual quote from her is I'm afraid that Marina is going to kick my nipple off.
Which is just yeah, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I was with you. I was surprised that she won. Like it, it, it didn't produce the same reaction as when Maya World beat Skye Blue, but I was like, okay. but the same thing. When I stopped and thought about it and went, okay, but you've got Kris Statlander in it.
That alone deserves the win. Congratulations, Harley. You yep. Congrats. That's awesome.
Correct. Mm-hmm.
It's for the belt that Willow had to vacate. This makes sense. Harley ties into the storyline more than Marina Shafir does. So it makes sense from that standpoint. I agree with you of when you have a show that later in the card you had Red Velvet and Queen Aminata, who nothing against the two of them. But like you said, have not really factored into anything at all lately. You could have had Harley, I would have had Harley go over Red Velvet.
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Uh-huh.
Sure. Sure.
You know, and you could have had Queen Aminata and Marina Shafir. And I I think at that point I like Queen Aminata. I really do. I and I think she's one of those people that has and and I think this about Harley as well. I think they've improved a lot. Like I thought Harley, you could really see tonight the work that she's been putting in in the ring. I thought she looked pretty good. I like Queen Aminata, but I think putting Marina Shafir over her would have made a lot of sense. And because I'm with you of
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I get it from the storyline perspective, but to have Marina Shafir, who's supposed to be this badass that trains with the Death Riders, to have her lose and she loses more often than not, like
Right.
And who else?
I I guess Mox is just spending all his time with the shiny new toy and Will Ospreay, which again, maybe that's gonna factor in down the road into a bigger story. I don't know, but it was very interesting to me that that Harley beat Marina Shafir.
Yep, and I think that's kind of what they were probably looking for is that sentence Harley beat Marina Shafir. And that's fine, but it it sure. Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. I I agree. Yeah.
I enjoyed the match. I I thought it was a really good match. I thought, like you said, I I think Harley looked great in this match. She's looked, you know, continues to look better in the ring. I think Marina's looked better in the ring. I did I liked the match. I was just I was just surprised. So okay.
I agree.
Yep. Yep. Well and and again when you look at the match that happens later in the card that's part of this TBS I'm gonna say tournament, even though I'm not sure it really is. Survival of the fittest that they call it. it makes me wonder why you didn't split them. But whatever.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yeah.
But I I think it's exactly what you said. They were they wanted the sentence I said of Harley Cameron beat Marina Shafir. They want that. Yeah.
Yep. One hundred percent.
Then it led to the video promo of Maya World in Mercedes, which you touched on in the likes. I agree with you. I thought this is good. It gets you caught up. They're making Maya World look good.
Mm-hmm.
I I don't think she's beating Mercedes, but I will say credit where it's due, they are treating this in a way and building her in a way that I go, I'm not a hundred percent sure anymore.
Yep. Yep. They're doing a really good job of making her the credible underdog threat to a really strong returning Mercedes Moné, which I think they need for that. And I think I that may be one of the matches I'm most excited for at Forbidden Door. outside of anything Kenny Omega's involved in. But I I'm really intrigued by this match, and I think it's gonna be fire. I think I think that could be one of the show stealers because
I agree. Yeah.
Mercedes is on top of her game right now, and I think I think Maya World has looked really good lately.
I agree. And I think that, you know, they they've had time to start putting this thing together. And I think that I think Mercedes would pull a good match out of Maya anyway, which is not a shot at Maya. You know, I just I think it's it's like Kenny Omega of I don't think Kenny Omega is capable of having a bad match. He just pulls things out of his opponent no matter who it is, where it's like,
No.
Yeah, that was entertaining. I think Mercedes can do that. I'm not sure. I'm not saying that she has to. I think Maya's gonna bring her A game, but I I'm with you. I think this is gonna be a really fun match at Forbidden Door. It is absolutely in my, you know, probably top five matches on the card that I'm looking forward to.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, 100%. I think it's gonna be really good. And I'm I'm I'm really happy with the setup. I th I think they've done a really good job of building this. I don't know how soon they knew that Willow was gonna have to not be in the tournament, but if it was as short notice at as as it has appeared to be on TV, I think they've done an amazing job of switching gears and moving forward. I think they've done and I and I like it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I I agree. I I think that they have found a really good way to roll with that punch. What I've pieced together just from things that I've read that have been reported, I think that their hope was that it wasn't as bad as it was for Willow, that she was going to be able to recover in time because once they once they lost Tony Storm, they pivoted to, okay, now Willow's going to be the centerpiece. And then she got hurt. And I think they were really doing a lot of like.
Right.
And then it just didn't work out their way, you know. And but I agree. I think they've pivoted brilliantly. I think they've done a really good job with that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, this has felt really natural. It's it's felt really really good. So I'm very happy with that one. Yep.
Yeah. then Ospreay and ELP. Yeah. I like El Phantasmo. Let me put that up front. I really like I've always liked him. Yeah.
Yeah, El Phantasmo.
I do too. I do too. Okay, now l let me get your take on this because I watching this, to me, this felt like early AEW. Because in in the early days of AEW, you didn't have a ton of names that were super recognizable, but it was more wrestling fans knew who they were. And ELP, I think, is one of those people that
If you know, you know. And it it just felt that way to me. That you knew you were going to get a really good match, or at least the people who knew who he was knew they were going to get a really good match between those two, Ospreay and ELP. And it just, it, it felt it just felt like that that fresh AEW feel of wow, you don't know who you're gonna see, but you know it's gonna be a great match. And that kind of that's how it felt to me. And I'd really liked it. But in the same statement,
It made it feel less like a go-home show with that. Now, what transpired afterwards in yada yada helps. But that match alone didn't feel much like a go home because you're like, why are you even wrestling? You're gonna take on one of the toughest guys going. Why are you in the ring with ELP?
Yeah. I I I didn't think that in the moment, but once you said it, I went, Yeah, okay, I get that. Yeah, I get that. what I thought in the moment was, okay, so we're gonna do you know, Ospreay's gonna have his match and you can I I don't I I don't like using the word war like the phrase warm up match for the pay-per-view.
Mm, right.
But especially against ELP and in a match like that, because I'll I'll just go ahead and put this out now. This is my match of the night. I really enjoyed it. I thought they were great. And so you're not putting that together as a warm-up match, right? And so what this felt like to me was we're gonna remind you that Forbidden Door brings people from other companies in because we haven't done that in the
Yep. Same. Loved it.
Good.
Mm-hmm.
No, we haven't.
You know, we haven't done it like at all in the build. So let's bring them in now. and let's put Ospreay. I mean, the non kayfabe of it is let's put Ospreay and ELP in the ring together because they've had a bunch of matches together and they were all good. So we can throw them in the ring together and know it's gonna be know it's gonna be good. Not have to sweat it, even if we're putting it together quickly, which is kind of the vibe I got here.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
I don't think you're wrong about it. It is kind of a it does kind of harken back to year one, year two of AEW. Not sure it's a bad thing. But you're right. Does it build any tension or drama as a go-home? No. No, not really. I I will say I did like the move that they did tonight of wrestler finishes match, their opponent for Forbidden Door comes out.
Right, yeah.
Mm-mm.
before they left the ring. I liked that. again, I'm not gonna complain about anything around this because I really like the match. I even really I even enjoyed ELP's Bret Hart cosplay this evening. I was thinking he has. Yeah. He has. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep. I like it. Yep.
He's he's been doing that for a long time. He's been using yeah, but but the giving the the shades away like like Bret Hart said that was t a total Bret Hart move, but yeah.
yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know he's been doing it for a while, but you know, I just wanted to throw it out, I guess. my thought my I other than enjoying the match, my main thought from this was I wonder when El Phantasmo is gonna be all elite.
You're not wrong though.
And I'm wondering if it's like this coming January. Maybe.
Maybe. I c I hope so, but it wouldn't shock me if we don't see him again for three, four, five months. Because I don't remember the last time he wrestled in AEW.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think it was probably leading up to last year's Forbidden Door. Didn't he did did he wrestle Omega on last year's Forbidden Door?
I have a memory of this.
I don't remember yesterday, much less last year's Forbidden Door.
I don't know. I'd have to look it up. But yeah, same. But yeah, I don't think he's gonna immediately come back. I'm not I don't think it's I I don't think it's worth having him do that. I'm just wondering if he's gonna show up full time in AEW sooner rather than later. And I'll tell you, I wonder the same thing about Zack Sabre Jr.
Interesting, yeah. I could be.
And the the biggest reason I wonder that is my understanding is there's been an ownership change and who knows what comes with that. Right. And my other thought on it was, you know, if you saw, if you follow us on social media, which if you don't, you should at Elite Heat Pod. I had put up the clip of me talking about, like I mentioned earlier, I it just doesn't feel like Forbidden Door this year, you know.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Thank you. Go do that.
Correct.
And somebody had said, okay, but who would you put in there that they haven't already? And they were like, and the the commenter was like, no, like legit, who would you put in? Cause I don't know. I can't think of anybody. And that's a good point. New Japan is not what they were. You know, they have lost a lot of people. You know, evil is gone. Obviously, the elite.
Yeah.
have been gone for seven years, you know. Ospreay's not there anymore, you know, I I mean people are retiring, yeah.
Yeah, they have lost a lot of they've lost a lot of recognizable names. Okada is there now, you know, and Naito isn't with them anymore, hasn't been with them for a couple of years now. So a lot of the names that would have caused like excitement around the people who are in the know, there's not near as many of those big names right now. And which is why I'm a little surprised we haven't done a little bit more with CMLL, because I thought
Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Right.
They've got a newer relationship with them and it seems to be pretty friendly and it seems to be pretty back and forth. We are gonna see some CMLL people, but boy, they haven't done much to promote it.
That's
Yeah.
That's where I think the visa issues come in.
Possibly on both ends of those sticks. Yeah, you're probably right.
Yeah. And what I will I will I will walk right up and put my toes in the water and reiterate something I said last week. If you have paid any attention to the World Cup, many of these national teams have had a lot of problems trying to get into the country for the World Cup, which is a however you feel about soccer is a bigger deal than Forbidden Door.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
What?
I have to believe that is playing a significant part in why CMLL is not a bigger part of this.
That that's completely understandable. One hundred percent. And it may be cause they I don't think they made that the the tag team six-man match until last this like the last four or five days.
I think they I think they did it Saturday night. I think. But I could be wrong on that.
Right. So it's it's not been very long. So I almost wonder if it's like, great, this is who we could get into the country. This is who's coming. This is what we're doing.
I think that that's exactly what happened. I I think that's exactly it of we know we can get these people in. We we got everything taken care of. So slam these matches together and let's all just get past it. Like I really think that's where we're at. And that sucks. It's I hate it when real life creeps into wrestling. I like this is my escape, damn it. Like leave us leave us alone.
Yep. Yeah. It does.
Yeah, cut it out.
Yes. What the hell, life? You got your life in my wrestling. Stop it.
Exactly. And it's not near it's not nearly as much fun as the chocolate and peanut butter. But anyway.
Thank you for getting that. I you complete me. I know.
What I'm here for, buddy. so anyway, it's just something to think about as we head towards, believe it or not, we're not that far away from 2027. I know. It's just something, again, like some of the things we mentioned earlier. Maybe just file this one away of ELP, Zack Sabre Jr., some of these names may pop up 2027 in AEW. Let's let's see. Call in my shot now.
Let's see. All right.
So, like I said, then it would bleed right into Swerve and Danny Garcia because, of course, Swerve Strickland had to come out to stare down Ospreay. I will say this Swerve posing with the trophy and the belt when he he did it before the match and after it. Big fan. Big fan of that. That was that that got a pop out of me. I thought the match was good, because of course it was with these guys. I will say.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Very fun.
Yep. I will
Yeah. And I I thought I was just gonna say I thought Danny Garcia was the guy to put up against him, from the definition. I th and I think I I like this match probably more than I expected to because I was I really I I knew Daniel Garcia was not going to win.
I agree.
But I I just think Daniel Garcia showed how underrated he he has been and he deserves a little more time in the spotlight and maybe deserves another shot at like one of those singles titles or pair him up with with PAC and and head him towards the the tag team titles or something 'cause he was so good in this match and he and he he just did a really great job. And I you knew Swerve was winning, but
I thought this match was put together really well, and I I just really like this match a lot. This was close to my match of the night.
I I agree. I was a big fan of it as well. The the one thing I will nitpick about Danny didn't love his styles clash.
It was a i he he pulled it off. I thought he was gonna d I thought he was gonna drop swerve, but he pulled it off.
He did. Yep. Yep. He did. And I understand that probably part of why he did it is because Ospreay has been using it and so I get that. Yeah.
that's 100 percent why he did, and that's why the end of the match was what it was.
Yeah. But you know, other than that, totally agree with you. Otherwise, this is very solid match, very solid stuff. really good match.
Yeah. I thought I thought it was smart. I liked that Swerve used the hidden blade to take out Garcia. I really liked it. I liked Sw Daniel attacking Swerve's knee to give you a little bit of a focal point for for Ospreay at Forbidden Door, so that you have that. I really thought maybe that would play a little bigger role in the match, even though it didn't. and then
Yep.
Then you had Ospreay come out and you and it looked like Swerve was gonna hit the vertebreaker on Ospreay, but Daniel interfered and he got he got he got smushed. He got squished. But I really like this one. This was really close to being my match of the night. I just I really enjoyed it.
Yeah, he did. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm with you. I really enjoyed that one too. I thought putting them like I said, I thought putting them back to back. I like that. I like that move. Now, don't run it into the ground, Tony, like you like to do with some of this stuff. But I thought that was good.
Yep. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I liked it.
There was a video recap that we mentioned briefly of the MJF/Briscoe feud to this point. I don't think it's worth spending a lot of time on. That would then lead into the Don Callis Family/MJF promo, which like I said, really for me was all about the shirt.
Yep. That and MJF blowing off Andrade.
Yep. And and that's gonna come back around. I'm just gonna leave that there for right now.
And I really liked RPG Vice going getting dismissed. Like, what are you doing here? That was really good.
Yeah. Yeah. And and that was another one of those things though that kind of tickled my brain of maybe file that away because as much as it may have just been goofy for goofy sake. And if it was, it's fine. I I don't have a problem with it. I I got a kick out of it too. But it just made me wonder is this another one of those things that's gonna factor in down the road because
I don't know that we're headed for a full blown Don Callis Family breakup, but clearly pieces are gonna start breaking off.
Yep. If you remember last week when they were announcing the teams, god, what's his name? From RPG Vice. Not Trent. Trent came walking down because he thought he was going to be the last guy on the team. And it was Andrade. And it and he was the last one hanging out at the top of the stairs at the end looking all sad sack. So
It's either Trent or Rocky Romero.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
The fact that they did that tw two weeks in a row, I I enjoyed that. And I think you're right. File that away. It could you know, if if it pays off dividends later, great. If it doesn't, it's just been fun. But it definitely could be part of that explosion that's happening in the Don Callis Family eventually.
Yeah, I mean, for my gamblers, I'm gonna say it's six to five and pick'em as to whether that was just for comedy's sake or if it is laying groundwork for something that's gonna happen later. Yeah, that's yeah, I think it's fifty fifty. I mean, I really do. And then this one I imagine is going to be polarizing. That's what I have learned.
I think a little bit of both, quite frankly.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
Jack Perry versus Zack Sabre Jr. And it's going to be polarizing based entirely on how you feel about ZSJ. Because what I have learned since last week is apparently there are a lot of people that think ZSJ is in fact mediocre and overrated. I disagree. However, to each their own.
Huh. Okay. Okay.
Here I think I understand why that thought happens. Is because and I noticed it tonight and I've noticed it before when watching him, he is so lackadaisical in the ring that there doesn't seem to be much passion there, and there doesn't it it's but he's so good. And and I think it's that attitude of just that kind of whatever, I'm just gonna come in, I'm gonna tie you up in knots, I'm gonna do this thing and
I'm not gonna show much effort. And it just he performs in a way that is unlike others. And so I can understand why people are going, he's just overrated. He you know, look at him. He's just walking around. Yeah, but he's that damn good. That's why he can do that. So I really like him. I think he's really good, but I can understand maybe that that could be part of why people think he might be overrated.
Yeah, I I agree with you. I think that that the attitude of the character is a big part of it. I also think it depends entirely on how you feel about chain and submission wrestling, because that's his whole thing is he's going to put you on the ground and he's going to keep you on the ground. And if you're into that, I don't think there's anybody better working today at that version of wrestling. If you've yeah, I mean, the only guy that I think you could put in there with him.
Absolutely.
Yep.
I would agree.
That's working in pro wrestling right now, or at least this is the first name in the popped in my head that I would go, this dude could legitimately credibly match him on the mat. No. That's my second pick behind Chad Gable.
Angélico?
yeah.
Okay, good.
yeah. That's a really good pick. Yeah.
And and let me tell you something, if I could someday see ZSJ and Gable, I would be very down for that. Yeah.
That's a really good pick. And and honestly, I was only partly kidding when I said Angélico because he is underutilized and so damn good. And I think that would be a fun match to watch if you let Angélico be. I think that would be a very entertaining match.
Yeah, Angélico actually is pretty good, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. but anyway, so it depends entirely on how you feel about his style, I think. And and you know, to me the ZSJ comp is Bryan Danielson, but I get that Danielson would do some of the higher I don't know, the bigger pop moves, right? Like he'll go off the top rope, he'll do the dive, the psycho knee, you know. So I get why people would be more inclined to go for Brian than
Zack Sabre Jr. And don't get wrong, I like Bryan Danielson more than Zack Sabre Jr., but I like ZSJ. I think he's good. I don't have a problem with how he wrestles. And quite honestly, you look at a match like this, dude. If I were getting in the ring with Jack Perry, first of all, I would crap myself. But second, I would want to keep that dude on the ring as much as humanly possible. Too you keep him on the mat to take away most of his offense. It makes sense. So
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Yep.
Absolutely it does. And I thought this match was really good. I really liked this match. I thought Jungle Boy looked great. I you saw him wrestle a style you didn't normally see. You saw ZSJ wrestle, you know, you you got a really good glimpse at what he's going to bring at Forbidden Door if you haven't seen him yet. I I really enjoyed it. I thought Jungle Boy getting his arm destroyed and still looking great was really good. And I and I thought you got to see a different side of Jack Perry that you haven't seen.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
With him staying, you know, I think I think my brain is just so full of wrestling and pudding that I couldn't think of Excalibur's name. Yeah. But I think it I think it was Excalibur who said, you know, Jungle Boy is staying really tight with ZSJ, because you don't want, you know, that you wanna stay close. You wanna make sure that you're not gonna get tight too tied up. You wanna keep on him and and
okay.
keep r you know, keep pounding and and stuff. So I I I just really like this match. I thought it was really good.
Yeah, I agree.
no, I totally agree with you. I thought it was really entertaining. I thought Jack looked really good. I thought ZSJ looked really good. the hold that he won on, that ZSJ won on, that's gnarly, dude.
God, that looked that I don't know if that was the planned out, but I don't think Perry could have done much longer in that whole
No. I watch Zack Sabre Jr. and and my joints hurt just watching what he does to other people. Like that's a dude that I wouldn't want to get in the ring with because ouch. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot. then we would get Young Bucks. I'm gonna kind of rapid fire mush these together. Young Bucks versus Zack's stablemates in TMDK. The Mighty Don't Kneel.
Not at all.
The Mighty Don't Kneel, baby.
I I enjoyed this match. I think the Bucks look really, really, really, really, really good right now. I thought this was fun.
Yes they do.
I don't have much to add to that. I mean just it I mean, i it's a Bucks match. TMDK, you get to see how good they are. It it was a really good match. like I said, this whole show I thought the in-ring action was great. And almost a any one of these matches could have been my match tonight because they're that good. And you're just seeing high quality wrestling in the ring. And I it's a Bucks match and they looked great. So yeah, I loved it.
Okay. Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. what did you think about the post match? I'll say fight. I'm not sure it was a brawl.
Yeah, I mean it it was okay. You know, you got you got what you needed. I was really surprised Jack Perry came out to even the odds too with Kenny. It got Kenny out there, and I thought the Kenny Omega post promo was pretty good. I it was short. I liked it. And the fact that Zack Sabre Jr. finally got on the mic and I loved it. He's like, you know, try to stay try to stay out of the hospital, love. And it's like, man, yeah. Nice. Nice.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, yeah, like I said, I liked this promo. I liked that Kenny kept it short. I think he continues to do a great job of putting Zack Sabre Jr. over while also saying, But I'm gonna whoop your ass. so I I thought Kenny was very good here. I thought I loved the ZSJ's one liner. I'm bummed that they hit the music too early, but whatever. I liked his
Yeah, exactly.
his one liner. So I yeah, I I had no problem with it. it I'm I'm a little sad that we're not getting the Elite versus TMDK all together, but I'm also kind of over the multi man matches. So you know, I'm a walking contradiction is really what it is.
Yep. Yeah.
But still that would be fun. Yep.
It would. Then we mentioned this one again earlier, Red Velvet and Queen Aminata. I have to I have to couch this one as what I saw was good. I did not see all of this match because for reasons I cannot explain to you. Here we are in 2026, and we still have door-to-door salespeople.
Okay.
What?
And some jack wagon showed up on his Douglas, I kid you not, on his segue.
And he rolled up to my front door and I knew he was there because one of my dogs was going ballistic, barking at him. And and he knocks on the door and I, you know, we have one, we have a ring doorbell. So I talked to him through the app. I'm like, can I help you? And he's like, yeah, well, why don't you you know, come to the door and talk to me? I'm like, I would really prefer not to with my dog going crazy like this. He's like, no, just you know, why don't you just come out here talking to me? I'm like, Jesus.
It's a wall.
So, for whatever reason, I went out there. Long story short, where I live is all private property. Like we've been having the roads redone because they needed it. Like, I pay for that. The city doesn't pay for that. All of us that live here pay for it. So I had to inform him soliciting is not allowed here and you're on private property. And he tried to argue with me about it, Doug. I live here and he tried to argue with me about my own neighborhood. And I'm like, bro, I know what I pay for. Okay.
Dude.
Literally was at an HOA meeting last night. Like I know what I pay for. Yeah. Nothing. I what I ended up doing, absolutely nothing. I ch you know, I made it very clear to him of you need to leave because even if the streets were public property, you're still on my property at that point. Like you gots to go. He was trying to sell me a security system that he claims he sold to people that just moved in down the street, which he may have.
Dude. So what did you end up buying?
Yeah. What was he trying to sell you?
But number one, I don't know them. They just moved in. And number two, that doesn't mean I want it. Go away. I'm trying to watch my stories.
Exactly. And it's what? At this point, eight o'clock at night, eight thirty?
Yeah, a yeah. Give or take. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dude, go-home. Take a nap. Get some rest. Watch some wrestling.
Yeah. And I was even less thrilled when I watched him do his little segue scoot across the street to my neighbors over there. I'm like, I just told you. I I I was do I know, I was this close to turning the dog on him. This close. Which all she would do was, you know, lick him, but still. Anyway, so what I saw of Red Velvet and Queen Aminata, I enjoyed. I just didn't see
Okay.
Some people's kids, man, you can't teach
Yeah, but still.
A l a rather large chunk of it.
I really like this match. I thought I hadn't seen Red Velvet in a while. I thought she looked great. I like her new at least from when I w when we last saw her like on regular AEW wrestling or Dynamite. I like her new ring presentation. I thought she looked amazing. I thought her and Queen Aminata really put out a really high-level match. I enjoyed the daylights out of this match.
Mm-hmm.
But it it's one of the matches that made me feel like this isn't a go-home show simply because we haven't heard from them. But I've finally kind of come to terms with the fact that I have to remember, okay, we've got Dynamite, we've got Collision, and we have ROH, which is its separate beast. But if we're gonna have these two in the tournament, we should see something before tonight about them.
That that's my only caveat. But the match itself, really, really good. At one point near the beginning, Aminata literally sat on Red Velvet's face and it made me laugh. I was just like I'd be like, I'd be kicking out immediately. I agree. Red Velvet.
I did see that. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I agree with you on that of this match had no build. And I understand this is not like when Stone Cold Steve Austin took his ball and went home because there was no build to a match between him and Brock Lesnar. Which I yeah, you would wanna you would wanna promote that, I would think. I get this isn't the same level.
Resumed.
Correct.
But a little something something would have helped. And I I didn't see Collision. Shocker, I know. Maybe they mentioned it there, but I don't think they did. I don't Yeah.
I don't think they did. I watched Collision and again I don't I don't think we knew who was gonna be in the in the in that match. Like it's I don't know when they've been announcing these matchups, but I've missed them all. So
Yeah, they do just kind of randomly announce it and it's like, okay. So I I don't know. match was good. I agree with you though. And like I said earlier, I think you split this and you split Marina Shafir and Harley Cameron and match them up that way and move Marina into the final because I think that makes more sense. But that way you get both Harley and Marina in the final. But whatever. It's it's nitpicky for a thing that I'm not sure.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
I'm not sure matters that much, right? Like I'm not sure this is an A storyline within the company. So
No. But I with the quality of that match, they deserved a little more a little more you know, a little more heat beforehand. A little more prep a little more prep work.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. then, like I mentioned earlier, this one didn't do a lot for me. The Bucks were with Renee. They said like three words, and then it was really about Cope and Cage fighting with The Dogs. I get it that you want to remind us that that match is happening at Forbidden Door. I get it that you wanna continue to remind us that they don't like each other and that The Dogs are ripping off the old Edge and Christian gimmicks.
Mm-hmm.
It whatever, it was fine. It was fine. Yeah.
It was yeah, it was okay. I didn't whatever. I the the my favorite part about it was when The Dogs and them came through and then Cage and Cope just kinda sat there and the Bucks were like, You good? You got it? Yeah, we got it. yeah. They just let him go get their ass.
Yeah. Yeah. I liked that and then the throwback. Yeah, I liked that and then the the callback to when Christian wore those over the head sunglasses. I thought that was a nice little touch. Whatever. The match is gonna be good. I'm not worried about that. I just
That was good. Yep.
I th I think we could have replaced that with a quick vignette and a recap instead of doing that. So
Yeah. Yeah. It's not building the heat for me that I think they want it to, but again, I'm not I have no issues with this. I think it's gonna be a good match, just whatever. Then Ricochet and Takeshita for the international title. We I think we spent time talking about the the parts that really mattered on this, which were there were there was Takeshita lost this match twice before he won it.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yes he did. He certainly did.
I mean
I don't know what else to say. It was a good match.
Possibly three times if I was really being close close eyed, but at least twice. But I liked the match. I thought it was good.
Mm. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good match. I kinda had forgotten about Ricochet, so it was nice to see him on TV again. good match. Had some bumps that and I don't mean in the wrestling term way. I mean there was it was there was some it wasn't the smoothest process, but whatever. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Nope. It was fine. The the thing that the thing that struck me when they announced when when they started the main event was during the conglomeration promo in the back, they're like, You're gonna hear from Mark Briscoe later in the ring. It's like, okay. And then they announced the the main event. I'm like, my god, we're closing the show with Mark Briscoe in the ring, or they're not gonna show him. One of those two things is happening.
And so I was surprised that and I understand why they did what they did, but it's always weird to me that your main event isn't the closing thing. And a promo is because that feels I don't know. It feels like a weird it just it doesn't feel right.
I agree.
I yeah.
I agree. I agree. The main event should close the show, especially when it's a hot match like that one was. Like setting aside the issues with the three counts, this was a good match. It had good heat on it. The crowd was into it. I was into it. Like, that's how you should have gone off the air. I forgot that they had said that. And then when Briscoe came out, I was like, yeah, they did say that. And I went, I don't like this. You should have reversed them in the order. I don't, I don't like the layout of that.
Yeah.
Absolutely. Yep.
And then when you come out with a weaker than usual Mark Briscoe promo, right? When you come out with a weak promo from him, like I talked about earlier.
That doesn't help. And then I I think I'm with you as I've thought about it. I think it would have been better to have both teams just throw down all at once instead of this guy comes out, now this guy comes to counter him. Now this guy comes out and this guy comes to counter him. The only thing that I thought would have made sense about doing it that way is if Andrade had not come out at all. But then he did. And so I didn't like that.
Yep.
Yes, yes.
I didn't like doing it that way.
Right. Right. Because I wrote it down 'cause you had Don Callis come out, MJF attack from behind, Fletcher comes out, takes out Briscoe, Takeshita comes out, takes out Fletcher, Okada comes out, takes out Takeshita. O'Reilly comes out, takes out Okada, Kevin Knight comes out, takes out O'Reilly, Darby comes out, takes out Kevin Knight, Jake Doyle comes out, Darby jumps on him.
And then Roderick Strong comes out, beats up Jake Doyle, Orange Cassidy comes out, beats up Jake Doyle, MJF back in, kicks Orange Cassidy in the nuts, Briscoe's back in, Andrade comes out, there's a weird thing between those two, and then Briscoe hits the Jay Driller. And I think at one point, even Tony Schiavone said, They're coming out one at a time. I know, Tony. I'm as shocked as you are. It I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I get that you're you're you know, you're going like, This is probably how we're gonna match up at the at the pay-per-view. Okay, but I'd rather just have, you know, one come out, another come out, and then everyone just hits the ring and just goes, blah. You could have done the same thing.
Yeah. Yeah, I I agree. I mean, it wasn't yeah, it just I understand. Let me be clear before somebody gets in the comments on this one. I know it's scripted. Okay. I know how this works. But but the one thing that I will ask you is don't remind me that it's scripted while I'm watching. And when you do something like this, where this guy comes out.
Yeah. Yeah, we get it. Yep, we get it.
This guy comes out and it ping pongs back and forth like that. You're all you're doing is reminding me this isn't real. Because in real life that wouldn't happen.
Yeah. Cause you can't You can't tell me the Don Callis Family isn't hanging out together and Don isn't like this is how we're gonna do this. And you can't tell me that the conglomeration wasn't hanging out together. And if they were, what made them think, Okay, let's see, Takeshita, you go out. You go out now. No, no, no, no, no, everyone wait, everyone wait. Okay, now Kyle, you go out. No, no one would do that. It's just this for a show that tends to do an overrun.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's it's
Yeah.
No.
Mm-hmm.
This felt like they were filling time to fill that overrun, which makes no sense to me.
Yeah. In in yeah. Yeah, I I agree. That it doesn't make any sense to me. I'll tell you what else didn't make sense to me. Hey, Kyle O'Reilly, when you are looking at a guy who's about to come off the top rope to take you out, maybe just go ahead and let go of Okada's ankle and move.
Don't even don't get me started down that path. I I have so many thoughts on that type of thing. I can't I can't right now. I can't. I can't. I d I I was just gonna say, I know I mentioned it earlier about like I love those old school brawls, but what I would have rather seen is them cut Briscoe's promo shorter.
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So it's go ahead.
Mm-hmm.
Have a couple back and forths. You can send out MJF first and then maybe one or two. And then, but have them all. And I would love to see a brawl where it's not settled when we go off the air. It's do an old school like they used to way back in the day. I'm talking early when it was Georgia championship wrestling before it was even WCW. And you'd have a you'd have just a studio brawl or even one at the Omni, and they're just going to town and you don't know what happens at the end because they've run out of time. That to me.
Yeah.
Would have been a much more effective and dramatic end to that show because you're like, Holy crap, what is gonna happen at Forbidden Door? Because these guys are going tooth and nail and we didn't get to see the end. So
Yeah.
Yeah. I I I agree. I would much rather have that visual of them just wailing on each other and we get Tony Schiavone yelling, We're out of time. And it and it fades to black. I would much prefer that to what we got tonight. So this whole segment fell really flat for me. It's why it ended up in my didn't like it category. I don't think this built heat for the main event for Forbidden Door at all.
Yes.
Nope. Is it took so long to get to the end where Briscoe hit the Jay Driller on MJF, which they made in the comment that he's never kicked out of it and it's like, we get it. But here's here's why I didn't like that. Is you you and I both know, having watched wrestling for so long, that when the guy hits the big move on their opponent before the pay-per-view.
Yes.
probably means he's not gonna be able to do it during a pay-per-view, or if he does, it's not gonna work and he's gonna lose.
So I I think what they're gonna do here, because I'm with you that usually that's how it goes. But because the stipulation is if Briscoe's team wins, then Mark gets to challenge for the title. I think he's gonna hit MJF with it, and I think he's gonna pin him again. And that's gonna be your narrative headed into the match is he can't Max can't kick out of Mark's finisher. And then what's gonna happen in the title match, Doug? He's gonna kick out of the Jay Driller. He's
Yep, you're right. Yep, you're right. And here's shame on me because I'm in my head conflating those two things as the same, forgetting that, no, they're doing another six-man at the pay-per-view. It's not the title defense yet, but it's going to be. And that's where that narrative's gonna happen. Yes, you're right. So I did jump the gun a bit, but still.
going to kick out of
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In in a
And I'll be honest with you, and and we'll, I'm sure, talk more about this Sunday night after Forbidden Door is over. I don't like that they put the stipulation on it because to me it tells me who's gonna win. You know, you took all the drama right out of that match, but okay, whatever. nitpicky, maybe, but when you're the main event of a pay-per-view, I don't want to know how it's gonna end. And I got a pretty good guess on how it's gonna end. You just heard it, you know.
Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Yep. Yep.
So anyway, that then brings us to Forbidden Door. So
Well, almost we have some interesting matches on Collision that aren't even go-home matches. You've got what I would consider a couple throwaway matches of the ones they announced. So I found that interesting that they weren't gonna use that as some final, you know, clarifications, but okay. You know. But I absolutely, absolutely. But again, I thought this was a really, really good show.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose part of that is keep healthy, right?
Mm-hmm.
But it it just didn't feel very go-home. It just didn't feel that way.
Yeah. Yeah. And I do think, you know, I think it was was it the go-home for double or nothing where we were like this might have been their worst go home ever.
yeah, I think so, yep.
I think this is different because where I'm willing to give them some grace on this one is it's pretty clear to me that they they really had trouble building the Forbidden Door card. And and I don't know what the reasons are for that. We can speculate all day long. Meltzer says it's not unusual that they don't make the matches, that they don't tell who's fighting who until the week of the show. I just have a hard time believing that.
Yep.
Right.
And I guess maybe the visas play into that, but I just surely they have to at least go, hey, as long as everything works out, we're gonna have you from New Japan wrestle this guy, right? And it really felt to me like they just couldn't do that this year for whatever reason. So I'm willing to give them a little bit of grace here on this pay-per-view, I think has been very difficult to pull together. So it's not then surprising from that standpoint that the go-home was
Exactly. Yep.
Great.
Mm-hmm.
Weird for a go-home. so I'll give them that. Good show. I agree with you. I don't think it built heat for the pay-per-view. What it did is it built heat for the matches that we already knew were on the card. You know, they didn't do anything to build heat for the Bucks are in a three-way tag match with two teams that I'm it's gonna be good. They barely mentioned it, you know. Yeah, they barely yeah, barely mentioned it.
Yeah. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah. And we haven't seen anything of them. No video packages, nothing.
By the way, did you know? I believe this is official for the show. PAC is challenging Shoda, Shota Umino, I think is how you say it. I feel like I never say it right for his new Japan title. Maybe mention that. PAC wasn't even there tonight. I didn't see him.
Yes.
Yeah. They didn't even bring it up. I totally forgot about it. He wasn't there. I totally forgot because they did that on Collision. And it w they did it in a weird backstage vignette. It was like PAC said something, and then they had a pre-recorded bit of the of the champ from Japan saying, Yeah, I'll I'll see it Forbidden Door. And I was like, What what? Okay. And then they don't mention it tonight?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. you know what we didn't talk about? That just reminded me both of us skipped over this on accident, the Thekla video.
Or on purpose. yeah, yeah. I saw I liked it. I liked it. I thought it was good. again, I think Thekla the you know, she's these vignettes are doing nothing but good for her. It's giving us a little glimpse of Starlight Kid, which, you know, we're not gonna get much, but that was that was good. and the other thing that just got kind of breezed by
I did too. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Is on Collision, Thunder Rosa put out a challenge to Divine Dominion saying, I'm gonna bring someone from CMLL, CMLL with me, and you're gonna see what it's like to face a real team. And then tonight they announced that she's gonna be with whoever they announced the name. Like she made it sound like it might be a surprise, or you know, she wasn't involved with the announcement. It was just, it just felt so weird that here we have a
The women's tag title up for grabs. And this is the first time we find out who half their opponents wouldn't even know anyone was going to challenge till Saturday.
Yeah. Yeah, it's been a weird, weird build for this show. It's been really weird.
If you if if you did see Collision, I will I do appreciate the fact that that Thunder Rosa called the tag champs double Ds. So that made me laugh a lot. Yep.
That's awesome. Yep. So anyway, on to Forbidden Door we go. We'll see how this look at the end of the day. We know the show's going to be good because it's going to be match heavy and the matches are always good. I have no concern about that. But if you're going to go into Forbidden Door hoping for like really good storytelling, you should probably go ahead and check that at said Forbidden Door. so we'll see what happens.
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely.
But should be a good show. We'll talk about it. That show will be up on Monday. In the meantime, like and share and subscribe and follow us at Elite HeatPod. And if you haven't checked out the new EliteHeatpod.com, you should do that.
Yes, Tim made it look purdy.
I did. so go check that out. And we will see you Monday to break down Forbidden Door and speculate wildly on if this is the last Forbidden Door. Did I say that? I kinda wonder. I mean CMLL will probably still be involved, but it just I just gotta wonder. So anywho.
I didn't even think about that till now.
Yeah. Now now that's now I'm gonna be thinking about that.
I'm gonna go ahead and say you're welcome for that. You're welcome, buddy. All right. I would yeah, you be I was gonna say I gotta go. Somebody's at my door trying to sell me something, but you win. You win.
Thanks. I'll be over later to sell you something.