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Welcome to Building the Future, hosted by Kevin Horek. With millions of listeners a month, Building the Future has quickly become one of the fastest rising programs with a focus on interviewing startups, entrepreneurs, investors, CEOs, and more. The radio and TV show airs in 15 markets across the globe, including Silicon Valley. For full showtimes, past episodes, or to sponsor this show, please visit building the future show dot
Kevin Horek:com. Welcome back to the show. Today we have and Daniel, the CEO and CTO of Pebblebee. Guys, welcome to the show.
Daniel:Thanks, Kevin. Great to hear. Welcome. Thank you.
Kevin Horek:Yeah. I'm I'm excited to have both of you on the show. I think what you guys are doing at Pebblebee is actually really innovative and cool, But maybe before we get into that, let's get to know each one of you a little bit better. Maybe, Doug, since you're the CEO, maybe we'll let you go first. Maybe give us a little background on yourself, and then, Daniel, I'll do the same for you.
Doug:Yeah. Sure. Thanks. Yeah. So I grew up in the in the Midwest, in the great state of Minnesota, not far from Canada.
Doug:So, yeah, kind of a traditional upbringing up there. Attended the University of Minnesota, business degree with marketing and finance, economics. And then had, you know, kind of my early press
Kevin Horek:Sorry to cut you off. I'm just curious what got you passionate about that and why did you wanna take that in university?
Doug:I had done various, sort of internships through high school, early in college, and really just found business was my passion. It allowed me I'm a pretty competitive guy and grew up in lots of athletics and sports and just found that that I was able to tap the competitive side a little more on the business side. And then, frankly, I'm not as brilliant as Daniel on the product side, and I learned that early on. He's, he's a better engineer than I would be. So, I'd rather I'd rather do a do the business side.
Doug:So got in early on at the University of Minnesota, did lots of internships from, in the in the business realm, and then had an opportunity with an early stage company in Minneapolis or Saint Paul called USSB. They were a pioneer in the satellite business in this small the small 18 inch satellite satellites. So got in early on there and, was able to sort of tap into more of the marketing and sales side of, of the background. And then, did that for a few years and, and DIRECTV, which we were a partner with DIRECTV. But DIRECTV ultimately acquired our side of the business, and then I was exposed to TiVo.
Doug:So then it's sort of been a a career in new products, innovative new products in in new segments, whether it was, you know, satellite or, you know, home secured DIY home security. We were really the first one at Dropcam, which was acquired by Google. And a lot of time with you with Euro on the mesh Wi Fi side. So Wi Fi had been around, traditional routers had been around. They had gotten faster, but nobody was doing mesh Wi Fi until till Euro got into it.
Doug:So I've had a an interesting opportunity for 25 years to bring new and innovative products to market in new segments, and, and that's, yeah, that's sort of turned into into a passion over the top over the years.
Kevin Horek:Very cool. Daniel, do you wanna give us a bit of background on yourself?
Daniel:Absolutely. So, yeah, Daniel Dara. I was born and raised in Beirut, Lebanon. So very different, culture. You know, best food, you you can find anywhere in the world.
Daniel:I'm a little biased, but, you know, honestly, you gotta trust me on that one. So, yeah, I I think, you know, my upgrade upbringing in Beirut was was, challenging to say the least. Obviously, we we, you know, we I remember back in the day. I mean, this is kinda what got me into engineering. My grandfather was was very innovative and and and he was an engineer in background himself.
Daniel:And I remember when we, would be in bomb shelters, and we would have no electricity. Wow. And we had to, you know, run TV to to to watch our, news. And so him and I would would go collect milk jugs and would would formulate some sort of acidic, formula, which is usually lemon and vinegar and have our cathode and anode from copper and zinc and create develop batteries. They were terrible.
Daniel:They weren't efficient. But, you know, that was our first experience, you know, creating batteries and charging them when we had power and running our TV. You know? Wow. And, and then learned from that and then went from there to essentially salvage batteries from from, cars that were just on the street and then rebuilding them and built the system where now we had heat and TV and, we had the all sorts of things, the basics that we needed when we didn't have electricity.
Daniel:So that kinda really trick I mean, I was 9 years old, you know, and that triggered my, my, interest in innovation and adding value. And I remember also, also, you know, I I flew into the US. This was when it was really bad, and and we had to, leave. And we came into the US for about 6 months, and I was 12 years old. And I went back and I this is when I discovered Costco, and I I discovered candy, you know, American candy.
Daniel:And I and I bought a whole bunch, and I every dollar I had, I I spent it all and bought a whole bunch of candy, went back to Lebanon, full suitcase, you know, went back to school, and I sold it for 3, 4 times the price. Uh-huh. And that's when I got hooked. Not only because I made money, but I could see the smiles on these kids. You know?
Daniel:And they were so excited and happy. Within 2, 3 days, they were all sold out, and they were like, can we have some more? Can we have some more? And I was like, I was just talked, you know, and and and the in both the innovation side of things and then also the business side of things, which is why I ended up, going to University of Washington. I got my computer engineering degree there as well as my master's in electrical engineering, and then, ended up working for Boeing, Phantom Works, which is, specifically focused on military communication systems.
Daniel:My thesis, back at school was based on predicting satellite communication traffic, for the purposes of improving quality of service. And so it was in the military segment. It was also military assets, which is essentially tracking assets, and I ended up doing the same thing for Boeing for 11 years. Specifically for military, whether it's air, subsea, sea, land, not just for the US, but also internationally, helping them track, military assets. And then that led me to start and found, with Nick Pearson Franks, which was my business partner, founded the company in 2,013, on the basis and the vision of, essentially helping people find and and track their things and their belongings and having peace of mind.
Kevin Horek:Interesting. Okay. So it's one thing to have, obviously, an idea to do this. What made you decide to actually go for it and actually build Pebbleby, and how has it evolved over the last, you know, decade, basically?
Daniel:It has evolved quite a bit to say the least. But really what what struck me and and got me into starting this is really there are 2 things. 1 is my passion for innovation and creativity and then also a problem solver. The problem was there, you know, and and we we can find our stuff. This was back in 2012.
Daniel:And, so I wanted to solve that problem. My background in technology, wanting to learn engineering because I wanted to create I wanted these tools so that I can create. And then also the the the passion of creating something that adds value in this world, just really adding value, good for humanity. That's really something that I've I've always been passionate about. And that's where we started off with with the business.
Daniel:We we created it in our basement and in our garages, I mean, literally, for several years. And then when we really spun off the company and ended up I mean, we started in 2013, but I quit Boeing in 2015 because I was just, you know, overwhelmed. So, Nick and I started the company, and and ever since then, we've always had this vision of having a cross platform system where no matter what system you're using, iOS, Android, Amazon, whatever it is, Windows, it would work for you as a user whether it's a consumer or business. The vision is always to create a unified cross platform system that is sustainable and environmentally friendly, which is why in 2016, we started with rechargeability. And we're the only company in the space today that we have rechargeable products that work for, you know, as long as 18 months on a single charge.
Daniel:And you don't have to go to the store and buy a battery, replace it, and waste time, and have this peace of mind just be on pause. You know, you could just plug it in 30 minutes, 20 minutes, fully charged. You got a whole year left, you know, on on on your device.
Kevin Horek:Okay. So in the early days, you were basically building prototypes in your garage. Is that correct? Did I understand that correctly?
Daniel:Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it was my basement, and it was Nick's garage. But I was I was focused on hardware, firmware
Kevin Horek:Okay.
Daniel:Which is essentially the software that runs on the hardware. And, back then, it was it wasn't like it is today. You didn't have chat to PT. You know? Right.
Daniel:You have to you have to you have to you read books, you know, a lot of books, and you have to have advisers and and people to talk to. And and, really, you have to just order equipment and and test it yourself, and development kits weren't as good as they are today. Even Bluetooth was terrible back then. It wasn't as good as today. So it was a lot more challenging and, you know, it would take us 6 months to to have a viable product and MVP that we can send out to friends and family.
Daniel:I remember in in, Christmas of 2012 is when we gave out these gifts. And, I mean, it looked terrible, but it worked, you know, and you can attach it to your keys, and you had to download the special app that we built. This was Nick. Nick was focused on app and software. And, and it worked and it worked so good that in 2013, everyone's like, you guys gotta do this.
Daniel:You gotta I mean, this is a moneymaker, you know, and you're not just that. You're gonna add value to people and you're gonna give peace of mind and save people time. And so so we did it, you know, in 2013, and we launched in late 2013. And 2014, we have good revenue, you know, we're profitable, and that led us to, go out to Angel's friends and family. Actually, one of our really close family friend is our still our largest, investor as a single, entity person.
Daniel:And and he invested in us and believed in us and and, you know, we're we're, we're here and thriving and growing today.
Kevin Horek:That's awesome. So how did you and Doug meet? And and then let's talk about how what the product does today. Well, the few products you have.
Daniel:Daniel? Okay. Yeah. So, actually, this is kind of a interesting topic because there's one person, his name is Jack. And I was at a coffee shop, and really just tinkering with my products testing.
Daniel:In fact, this is what I do almost on a daily basis. We we get products, and I'm testing just previously wanting to make sure we achieve best user experience. And I was at a coffee shop, happens to be at a coffee shop and testing, and I had about maybe 50 of them on the table, and I'm doing this and that. This person shows up to me and comes up, and his his name is Jack. He's he's young kid, you know, he's 23, I think, at the time, 24 maybe.
Daniel:And he, he then said, hey, you know, I I I work with this company and they love to see innovation and they're a future looking forward looking company and they they like to invest in people like you and your company. And so are you interested and you're looking for investment? I said, absolutely. You know, this is the time when we need to grow. And this was back in 2017 ish, 2018 maybe.
Daniel:And that's when I connected with, Soracom, which ended up investing in Pebblebee. And then Jack introduced me to someone Here's what I said. That oh, here's Siri listening to me again. Jack introduced me to someone that, I said, hey, Jack. I need I need the the best sales and leadership person you know today.
Daniel:And this was back in 2018, and that's when he introduced me to someone that then introduced me to Doug. And then, we met and we talked. Since then, we talked on a daily basis, for for a short period of time. And then we we kinda lost, touch, and then we kinda reconnected in 2021, I believe. Right, Doug?
Doug:Yep.
Daniel:And that's that's when I got together with Doug, and I said, Doug, I need help. Nick passed away, my my cofounder in 2020. So I I really needed help. You know, I I took on a lot, for for a short period of time for about a year and a half, and then I needed help. And that's when I reached out to Doug, and Doug said, hey.
Daniel:I not only can I help you, I can I can I can help you raise some money too? Doug, you wanna take it from there?
Doug:Yeah. So we reconnected. I was with a, a really interesting company based out of Tokyo that's, a a go to market partner for US brands, but also a distributor, manufacturer, publisher. So I'd spent a couple of years through COVID, with SourceNext, investing investing in brands and helping them with the growth path for for the Asian market, specifically Japan. And then, after Daniel and I got reconnected, we recalibrated a bit of what I was doing.
Doug:And over, you know, after we did a bunch of due diligence while at Sourcenext did a bunch of due diligence in Pebblebee, Daniel was in need of capital and sort of leadership help, and that was the the model that we had had at Sourcenext prior. So we put it all together. We realized that Pebblebee was an amazing gem that had, incredible product. Daniel's an incredible Daniel and team are incredible product builders, innovators, and, and lots of patents behind it. So it felt like a really ripe opportunity to to inject capital into the company, join Daniel, and then ultimately bring this new initiative, a new product to market maybe in a different level than it had in the past.
Doug:So that was about about about 2 years ago. And, yeah. So Daniel and I, I guess, I officially joined January of last year, and we sat down and realized this is an amazing category that is, that is on a massive growth cycle due to other brands that have gotten into it and awareness is better. But it isn't just about attaching to keys and wallets. It's about attaching to valuables.
Doug:And, and, usually, that really can be way beyond keys and wallets and way beyond just consumer into the b to b world. So we'll we'll share more about that. But, yeah, it's been really great to to to get reconnected with Daniel, to join the team, and then to partner with him on this new initiative to bring Pebblebee to the masses. And we've got the right the right strategy and the right product to do that.
Kevin Horek:Okay. So you you mentioned, obviously, and I think anybody's kinda thinking that. It's like, there are other companies and competitors out there, probably Apple being the big one. They also just signed a deal with Google right now. How does that actually play into your strategy?
Kevin Horek:And then let's dive into how you're different and and the products that you're actually building these days.
Doug:Yeah. Maybe I'll take that, Daniel. You can add on. I I think, I I so Apple got into this business roughly 2 years ago. And, other brands that were in this space or all brands in this space sort of had a choice to make.
Doug:Apple has a platform. You can become a licensee and essentially partner with them, or you can go other directions. Daniel and and folks at the time made the decision to partner with Apple. Others have gone the legal route. There was a there was a great choice not to do that.
Doug:So, essentially, we have, Apple as a licensee across licensing partner. So we work within their Apple find my app. And back to Daniel's original plan was, how do you make this work for everybody? So today, and we'll get into it over time here, but we've got the the only product that works on on a on the native app for Apple and soon to be the native app for Android with Google. That was an announcement that we made just a couple of weeks ago.
Doug:So, we're in a really unique position to solve for the consumer with the best product that works differently than others, but it also brings simplicity in that there's no other app you need to download. It just works with what you have in an environment you're already using.
Kevin Horek:Sure. Well and let's be honest. I think a lot of people have both ecosystems in the house. Right? Not everybody has the latest and greatest iPhone or one might have that and one might have an Android phone or your kids might have your old phones or your Android phone.
Kevin Horek:Like, right? Like, I think a lot of people have both devices kicking around these days. Is that fair to say?
Doug:Yeah. I think that is fair to say. And and, yeah. So as we've sort of built out the strategy in some of these licensing deals with the major tech companies, The other thing that the that it's that's paying off for us is when when Daniel and I sat down after we got together here, it was realizing that if we try and sell this product like every other brand, we're probably not gonna be as successful because there's other brands that have 10 years in this business, and there's other brands like Apple that have a massive brand, massive distribution, and and loyalty. So it was really about how do we take, 1, products that have that that have that are grounded in amazing patents, but take this amaze the team that we have and extend our products to other things.
Doug:So this then opens up the world of b to b partnerships or enterprise. And now because we're the only company that has cross platform compatibility out of 1 individual SKU, and we can clarify all this, but we can work on either. This device works on on either, not simultaneously, but either, then we can take that to partners. Like, you'll see skis behind Daniel. You know, we did a deal with Peak Skis.
Doug:We're now our discussion with Peak Skis was, if you're interested in a tracking solution first of its kind, never been done in in skis or in snow sports. We're the only one that when you sell it, it works with either the Android customer or the Apple customer. They don't have to version sets of skis. Well, you know, they would not do that. So Interesting.
Doug:It's really taken the the strategy of the company in a different way, where now it's opened up partnerships, b to b, and enterprise that maybe historically had not been part of the strategy.
Kevin Horek:Okay. So let I wanna dive, obviously, deeper into the business side, but maybe let's start off with the consumer devices, and then let's work towards the business stuff and and how they all kind of either tie together. And then do they keep going all the way through business, or is there, like, they're completely separate? Walk us through that.
Doug:K. Daniel, you wanna talk product?
Daniel:Yeah. Yeah. I'd I'd I kinda wanna tap back into what we were just talking about is cross platform compatibility and how we wanna make sure that this is the best user experience for users. And so we we don't want to focus on this is the only way it works, and you have to use the Apple ecosystem. And this is the the recent I I I've also, I don't know if you know if there was a recent proposal between Apple and Google for unwanted tracking, and there's a a new spec that was proposed.
Daniel:And this was something that probably worked on as well, with with Apple and Google. Yes. That's cool. Yeah. So so we we've, definitely been working on this, and we're participating in this new spec.
Daniel:And what that means is that, you know, I can't say much now, but but, eventually, you can see a unified system. And that is kind of our vision. Our vision from the beginning has been to to to be the global reader, leader in a cross platform integrated location services, type of, company, which means that it's not just, you know, Apple and Google. There are other big companies in this space that we will be integrated into. And not only will this be a consumer play, it's definitely an enterprise play as well.
Daniel:It's just that it it's gotta be in steps. And right now, we're focused on the consumer, you know, eventually. And, actually, it is already playing a role in the enterprise when it comes to, for example, other brands and us being a value add to those brands, like, for example, peak ski, which is right behind me. In fact, the the solution is inside the ski right now. I'm not gonna show you, but it's inside the ski.
Daniel:And, essentially, like Doug was was saying, yeah, you don't know if if you're you you don't wanna have an Android ski or an iOS ski. Right?
Kevin Horek:Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel:Yeah. And this works. It's a single SKU that works with either, find my or find my device, which finally, we can talk about it now, or, Pebblebee or something else that will be coming in the future. So my point is is that, it needs to be the best user experience. That's how it comes, that's how a winner becomes a winner because it it it cannot be from us driving, you know, how the user needs to use it.
Daniel:It needs to be how the user is already using their tools and services, and then we blend in.
Kevin Horek:Okay. So walk us through the current versions of the hardware today, and then I wanna go into the ski and all the other kind of business, partnerships and how people could leverage your technology.
Daniel:Yeah. I'll I'll go into that. So we have 3 products that we just recently released. We have the card, which is super thin. It's, almost 2 credit cards thin.
Daniel:Same shape as a credit card. It is rechargeable, and it lasts for up to 18 months on a single charge.
Kevin Horek:Okay. Sorry to interrupt you, but Yeah. How do you charge a credit? Like, is it wireless charging? How does how does that work?
Daniel:No. So it it's got pins on the back and it has a magnet and there's a cable that comes with it and they just slap on. And I wish I had it right here in front of me so I can show you, but it snaps on and it's USB. So you plug it in, charge it. It full charge, probably might take with trickle charging about an hour and a half, but, you would get about 80% within 30 minutes.
Doug:Kevin, can you see this little charger?
Daniel:Yeah. I can see that. That's cool.
Doug:It just just snaps on.
Kevin Horek:That's very cool. Okay. And
Daniel:then and then yeah. And then the last for 18 months on a single charge, and it's loud. It's got a very good range, much better than, you know, any competitor today. We say up to 500 feet, but, you know, honestly, I've been able to test it 1500 feet line of sight straight. Wow.
Daniel:So but Wow. That's impressive, actually. I have to have my wife sitting right next to it. I'm on a phone. Hey.
Daniel:Can you hear it? So it's just for testing purposes, obviously. It's not practical. But yeah. So that's that's how this device works in your wallet.
Daniel:You can put it in your purse or any anything really that that, needs a thin in fact, I have it on my laptop that I'm using right now. And it's very useful because sometimes I'll leave the house and I forget my laptop. I get a notification you left your laptop behind. You know? So that's that's what we use the card for, or most consumers use it for.
Daniel:And we also have the clip. The clip is also USB c rechargeable, and it has very bright LEDs. And the LEDs are serve multiple purposes. One of them is charge indication. So the the the fully charged is green, medium is, like, yellow.
Daniel:You need to charge it. It's, like, red, you know. And this also lasts up to 12 months on a single charge. It has its integrated clip functionality, so you don't have to buy an additional accessory to clip it to your keys, etcetera. Again, it's rechargeable, very thin, very lightweight, small, and, lasts, you know, up to 12 months.
Daniel:And then the 3rd product that we just recently introduced as well is the tag. I mean, if you compare it to the card, it's quite small. Right? It's a little bit thicker, but it's quite small. It also charges the same way as the card.
Daniel:This one's up to 8 months. And this one's great, for example, if you wanna put it, or, use an adhesive to use it on a a remote control, for example, or if you wanna put it in a bag, you know, or anything in that in that sense. And then we also have an attachment. So if you wanna attach this to a a a strap, you know Okay. I lose my dog collar all the time because my kids wanna remove it, and they're like, they don't wanna pet the dog with a with a dog collar.
Daniel:And so I always lose the dog collar or the dog leash. So I I put this on the dog collar, and no problem. Find find it all the time. So, yeah.
Kevin Horek:Okay. Very cool. So I wanna dive deeper into the tech, say, in the skis. Like, how how does that work? How is it embedded?
Kevin Horek:How do I charge it? How does that work?
Daniel:Yeah. And and so, obviously, for skis, we spent considerable time, understanding from again, it all starts from user experience. How is it the best user experience, and how can we create this product to be the best user experience? And and and ski is it's water resist it has to be water resistant. Right?
Daniel:You're always in water, I mean, snow. Yep. It's cold. Right? There is no way to it's very thin.
Daniel:It has to be very thin. And so we started off with creating a product that is wirelessly rechargeable. It also lasts for an entire season. So it's chi charging, which is a standard charger. It's in your cars, you know, your phone has chi charging, you know, it works that way.
Daniel:And then it also has NFC tap, so for pairing, and then also for reading information. So it's very cool. You tap and you can pair. And it has a special battery, chemical, construction that allows it so that it can withstand very, very low temperatures, like, when you're skiing in, you know, negative 20 degrees or higher temperatures when it's being stored, you know, and left outside on the rack, for example, in really warm weathers, like spring skiing. I don't know.
Daniel:So, so that's that's important. And it also, needs to be over molded with some sort of resin because this ski is getting a lot of vibrations. Right? These components need to last for a long time, you know, in a ski. So that's how we kind of reengineered this whole product.
Daniel:I mean, we have the layout. We have the technology. We have software. Everything that's a good platform. But when it comes to form factor, you have to kinda rethink about what is the best user experience and you go back from there, and you build the product.
Daniel:And so it's built in and has very bright LEDs, 5 LEDs, that also indicate battery charge, but they're also there to to, light up to show you where the ski is. And then there's also a range finder that would be used, for example, as a peak ski app that could also show you where and how far you are from your skis. If one of those skis, gets bolt unbolted from your, from your, from your boots, and then it goes somewhere in the snow, you know, in deep snow, and you you gotta find it. That's it. That's one of the major problems you get when when you're skiing, back in the backcountry.
Doug:Sure.
Kevin Horek:So that's
Daniel:how it works.
Kevin Horek:Very cool. So how oh, you all also probably had to make it super light too because obviously people don't want a ton of extra weight. So how did you worry about that and making sure that arguably, people don't wanna know they they want all the technology in their skis, but they don't want it to feel like they have any technology in their skis. Right? Yeah.
Daniel:That's a very good point. A lot of people don't even wanna know it's there, the technology, and some some are very purest and they don't care, you know. Hey. If I buy a $2,000 ski and and the bindings and it's stolen, whatever, you know. I don't want technology, but a lot of a lot the majority do, especially nowadays.
Daniel:The majority do. And when it comes to weight, you know, on the ski, it's not that critical. And when we're talking about a few ounces, it's not, you know, grams. I mean, a few grams, it's not that that much. It's probably about an ounce or less, half an ounce maybe.
Daniel:It's not that big of a deal. What what is a problem though is when it comes to, for example, golfs, golf clubs. And that's something that we've built. We have a partnership with Henry Griffiths. There it is.
Daniel:Only 3 grams. Wow. Three grams that goes inside the golf butt, the the shaft of the golf butt and under the grip. So you have to regrip. Obviously, this is built in, and the point isn't for theft or anything like that.
Daniel:Really, I mean, that is an anti, I mean, it's it is a theft deterrent, but the point is, really, the functional and the value add here is about left behind alerts. Because when you're golfing I mean, Doug golfs more than me, probably not enough, but a lot more than me. And, when I golf, I'm always leaving my, 9 iron or my wedge, behind and moving to the next, hole and then not realizing until after the end of the next hole that, oh my gosh. My wedge is all the way back there.
Kevin Horek:Right.
Daniel:And it happens because you carry 2 of them, and then you're putting, and you leave it because you can't hold 2 at the same time. And So You know?
Kevin Horek:I've done that many times. Yeah.
Daniel:So I see. Yeah. So so, you know, you're you're wasting time. You know, it's just so that's that's the the added value there. And and to your point in terms of weight, we had to redesign this whole entire, form factor for golf clubs because it need to be very lightweight.
Daniel:It need to be rechargeable. How do you recharge something that's inside of a club? Well, it happens to be that we're serendipitously is that there's this little hole in the in the, not the sleeve, but the the grip, you know, on the tip of it. And the hole's purpose is that when you slide it through, air can escape from that hole. Right.
Daniel:That's the only purpose, at least Right. As far as I know. And so now you have an entry point. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel:Yeah. There you go. But now you have an entry point where you can charge. So it's just a 2.5 millimeter charge port, and you charge it, and it lasts for, you know, a season. So yeah.
Kevin Horek:Very cool. Okay. So do you have any other examples of how you've integrated hardware into things that aren't technically, like, smart or known to be smart devices?
Doug:Well, I I think, the two examples there were really part of a broader strategy of embedding our tech into other things. So those are valuable items from skis to golf clubs. And now we're we're creating more value for those. So there's lots of other things. Like, even even our golf club solution, you might imagine that goes pretty well in a bike bike handles.
Daniel:Sure. Totally.
Doug:Bike is, you know, just in the US alone, 2,000,000 bikes are stolen a year. So whether it's luggage, bikes, there's there's plays in the automotive world. Ultimately, it's taking our fantastic tech and extending it to other valuable items. And we're early on this in this venture, but the ones that we've talked about and shown so far are the 1st to roll out, but there will be many more to come.
Kevin Horek:Oh, very cool. So are you, guys actively looking for companies to partner with, whether it's that you guys maybe haven't even thought of yet of how you could use it?
Doug:We we are. It's an important part of our strategy. So we we love the consumer world, and we love selling to retailers, and we love delighting consumers that wanna save their keys, wallets, and everything else. But we also see a larger mission here where we can inject value into these other products. You know, like, what Daniel and the peak development team have done has never been done in in snow sports ever.
Doug:Building an embedded tracking solution into a ski, That's a non that's not not easy to do, but we've done it. So, yeah, we're we're actively seeking new partners in various categories to bring our technology where we can provide value in bringing our technology to their valuable items. We're open for business, and our our phones are, our phones are ready.
Daniel:In fact in fact, Doug says, this quite often, and that is the biggest opportunity, has not happened yet. And it's it's about to happen. And it's just we don't know about it yet. Right? And so there are so many opportunities out there, that we can, build and integrate our tech into where where, you know, in 10 years from now or maybe maybe less, 5 years now or from now, we're gonna be in every household.
Daniel:You know? It's gonna be built in to so many of your, daily use, type of products.
Kevin Horek:Well and and you can correct me if I'm wrong here. Just based on the price of your consumer devices, they're very inexpensive. So, you know, like, next time I get a bike, I might not even know that I'm using your technology, but the bike I bought is integrated with your technology and, you know, you're just in my handlebars. Right? And, you know, the whatever.
Kevin Horek:Right? Now that's really cool, actually. So I wanna dive a little bit into the actual business side and and some of your kind of dashboards and and business tools. Do you wanna talk about some of those?
Doug:Sure. Sure.
Kevin Horek:So so how does that work? And give us maybe some examples of how businesses are leveraging your tech, you know, to kind of manage a fleet or or track a bunch of these things.
Doug:Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that in in my previous businesses and also what Daniel's done is, especially on the consumer side so let's take an example, Eero Eero Wi Fi. We were selling great Wi Fi to consumers, and then all of a sudden cable operators came calling. Well, you need different tools to sell to cable operators.
Doug:So what did we need over there? We need an admin panel where a cable company could see lots of different devices, not just one home. So and then there's other other examples in my past of doing that. So as we got together and thought, well, jeez, let's take an example, like, in the world of golf. So we've got a solution for golf clubs.
Doug:We've got another solution for golf maybe golf bag manufacturers. So this product could easily be built into a golf bag. And we've also had another product that's an LTE product that this can be can be used on golf carts. So as an example, there's there's some golf carts that have GPS built in. Yep.
Doug:Those companies that provide GPS, it's $50 a month per cart, and they provide dashboard, and they and there's tools that come with that. Well, for a far more economical solution, we have this that can be attached to the golf cart, so we built a dashboard. So now that golf course owner can see every golf cart where they are all through the course, and then the, the the guy working the maintenance shack at the end of the night, I know because I was one of these at 16 years old, knows where the last two carts are when they're not in. So they know exactly where they
Kevin Horek:are. Interesting.
Doug:So that's an example of a tool that we built, a dashboard that we built, so it gives full visibility to all of the PebbleBee devices that that customer, in this case a golf course, is using with our technology. There's rental companies that are using it. There's lots of different companies, but the reality is we built a dashboard that gives them all the tools they need to have access to their to their product using our technology.
Kevin Horek:Very cool. Okay. So, like, what other features and functionality is in this dashboard, and what can I how do I interact with it? Obviously, I can okay. I can see all the golf carts on the course, but what other data or what else can I get from using this dashboard?
Doug:Daniel, you wanna talk about that?
Daniel:There there's quite a bit of features, that and benefits that translate into I mean, feature that translate into benefits. For example, geofence. For example, if a golf I'm just going with the golf club or, golf cart scenario. The golf cart leaves a particular golf course or an area that it's now designated as no goes on, you get a notification. You get an email.
Daniel:You get a a list. At the end of the day, here are some of the golf, carts that have gone this area or that area, and that happens. Sometimes people take him home, you know, if if there are homes on that health, you know, course, and, and they do because, you know, they've had little too many to drink or something or maybe they're, you know, busy or late some somewhere and and then they end up there for a week or so, and no one knows where they are. And so that's that's, another feature. And and then, of course, administrative, features and ways to be able to share with other people and and, within an organization, for example.
Daniel:That is more on the enterprise side of things. And then there's also, and another for example, let me just, not that, we're we are in this space or not, but let's say car dealerships. You know, that is a very big space, you know, when it comes to keys, tracking keys, knowing where they are at all times, knowing if they've left the car lot. You know, you can't do that with the find my, app or you can't do that with the find my device app. This is more of a consumer space.
Daniel:But when it comes to enterprise, you can. And you could do that with a dashboard when it when you're we're talking about thousands of devices. And you can also create groups. You know, these groups of devices are for this dealership, and these groups are for this other dealership. One one owner may own, maybe 10 dealerships.
Daniel:Right? Right. Some of them own 100. Right? So Yeah.
Daniel:You wanna be able to have these tools that are completely different, features that users typically don't need, but enterprise need. And some enterprise needs are not, necessary for consumers and vice versa. So my point is is there are a lot of features that come into play here when it comes to enterprise, and different businesses are, different from what they need. Some in some businesses need enterprise, and then they want hand off to customer. Maybe imagine the key scenario.
Daniel:You're selling a car. It's at the lot. We don't know where the keys are. You know, you don't wanna be caught with your pants down when you're like, I sold the car, but, I can't find the keys for your car brand new car that you just bought. Right?
Daniel:And that happens. Believe it or not, it happened happened to me once. I had to come the next day. And I'm like, are you serious? I just paid for the sign for this.
Daniel:They're like, we're sorry. You know, you can wait 2 more hours. I'm like, no. I'm gone. So, so, essentially, you you find the keys on the lot, but then you wanna hand it off to the customer.
Daniel:So the keys end up with the customer and the tracker is with the customer. How does it go from being tracked on the lot to now being more of a private setting, which is tracked by the customer? And so there are all these scenarios that we're playing a role in.
Kevin Horek:Interesting. Okay. So and you can correct me if I'm wrong here. It sounds like a lot of the features and even hardware that you're building actually is coming from your customer and you're solving you're partnering with them, basically, to solve a problem that benefits both parties. Is that correct?
Doug:Mhmm. Yep. Yep.
Kevin Horek:Which is actually a really smart way of building a business, especially in the hardware space. Because as you guys both know, and I'm maybe even some listeners know it, like, iterating and prototyping and hoping that there's a customer can take months, if not years, where if you're saying you have a, you know, a ski company come to you or partner with and say, we need to put this in a ski, that's a lot easier than you saying, we built this for a ski. Now we gotta go find the
Daniel:Right.
Kevin Horek:You know, companies. Right?
Daniel:Right. Yep. That is that is for sure. And and hardware is hard. Everyone knows that.
Daniel:Hardware is very hard. But hardware, nowadays, I think I think in the future, nowadays is is gonna be much more high higher value proposition, especially when you think of AI and what AI has done to software. Yep. You know, it's it's definitely normalized, the the entire world when it comes to software and tools, etcetera. But when it comes to hardware, that's still very hard.
Daniel:And so it's it's it's definitely made hardware companies, I believe, in the next, you know, 6 to 12 months and beyond, more valuable because that is a trait that very few people know how to manage and run. And so, so yeah. And when when you talk about creating a product like this that is universal, that can work for, you know, certain, universal products like keys or or bags, etcetera, as opposed to building a product that is purpose built for skis or golf clubs. That, I think, is where the future is going to be, and we're already ahead, you know, on that path.
Kevin Horek:No. It makes a lot of sense. So I'm curious, though, is obviously, you've been doing this a long time, longer than some of your competitors. But how did you basically partner with these brands, including Google and Apple, that are arguably your competitors and part of your business space? Because, let's be honest, anybody that's building hardware and or software would love to partner with some of these brands.
Kevin Horek:So what advice do you give to people, and how did you guys do it? Because, like, that's the golden ticket, right, that everybody's hoping for when they're building this stuff.
Doug:They don't
Daniel:It's it's not easy. It's not easy.
Kevin Horek:Sure. I can imagine.
Daniel:It's, there's definitely, you know, I don't, disregard the the the fact that there is some luck, but it's small compared to perseverance, determination, focus. I mean, you you you will never guess how many emails I had to send to Sure. One of the partners to get there. And, it wasn't just that. The emails may is is just the vehicle, but you have to have a very good quality vehicle.
Daniel:Right? And you have to make sure that you can back what you're talking about with proof. And that is, the fact that we already have, you know, best rated products. But, furthermore, going in and starting that conversation and meeting with those big giants and then helping them improve their processes. Right?
Daniel:Not just on a business or or or level, but on a technical level. That has been our value add that we've been advising these big companies in terms of how to improve and deliver best user experience. And so I think from from, again, it's not easy. It's it's very, very, very, very hard, but it really starts with good quality, user best user experience in mind and then perseverance, determination, and focus.
Kevin Horek:Interesting. You mentioned patent technology earlier in the conversation. How much does that play into that conversation as well with these people or these companies, I should say?
Doug:Yeah. I think I would echo what Daniel said with perseverance. I think, you know, one of the things with how you get some of these brands to engage is you just try. You know? And Daniel was super super you know, his perseverance was persistence.
Doug:But then, ultimately, you've gotta back it up, And, and we back it up with with quality of product. You can see that in the reviews. And we we own the fundamental patents on a lot of this. You know, as an example, this this key technology, Daniel. We own the patent for for the tracking device in the ski.
Doug:So, as we engage various categories, various partners, various, you know, whatever we're engaged with, they then can do their own due diligence on the product and, you know, how we can we can bring IP as part of the solution. And fortunately, we've got a good, you know, a good, good portfolio there.
Kevin Horek:No. I I think that's that's really good advice. I'm curious, and we're kinda come to the end of the show, but is there any other thoughts or advice that you would give people to look that are getting into the hardware, firmware, software space? Because it's challenging.
Doug:I'll
Daniel:let Yeah. Product perspective,
Doug:but, it's not cheap.
Daniel:Yeah.
Doug:It's not cheap. So, so be be sure if you're in the hardware space, it's not cheap in a number of ways. 1 is it takes capital to build the product. 2, it takes it takes dollars to bring the product to market, and ultimately to drive website traffic, to drive sales, to do to do distribution deals, all of that. So be sure that you're well capitalized, to to build on the the strategy of whatever product you're gonna build.
Doug:But from a product perspective, Daniel can address that.
Daniel:Yeah. And I'd I'd like to add great points, Doug. But I'd like to add the I think from my perspective, the most expensive component of this is time. It takes a long time to establish these relationships with these factories, the relationships with the component vendors, relationship with these partners and customers that that takes a long time. And when you mess up on something or quality or anything like that, it takes even longer to recuperate that lost time and and, trust in that customer.
Daniel:So so I think what we've I think the biggest value, largest value that we've attained here is is that we have that experience under our belt, and we've made the mistakes, and we've learned from them and not made them again. Yeah. And we continue to improve. And our focus again is best user experience, but it also when it comes to within the company, it's people. It's a 100% people, and it's it's about, partnering with employees that are devoted that we are devoted for what's best for them and their future and their career as opposed to what's best for the company because that inherently becomes what's best for the customer.
Daniel:Right? And so Interesting. We we we we have I mean, if you talk to any of our employees, they they just love Pebblebee. They love what we do. They love the the culture that we've built.
Daniel:And I think it it really, comes down to when you wanna tackle this sort of, market space of whether whether it's hardware or anything, you gotta start with people. You gotta have good, employees, good people, good partners on the team that can that have a that have a a sort of very similar vision, you know, to to what you're trying to accomplish. But when it comes to as Doug was saying, in terms of having, good funding, that is very important to know because you need to scale that business, and it's a challenging very challenging landscape, especially nowadays. Extremely challenging, landscape. So, really, it's just finding your niche, you know, and and and having the right people, having the right mindset, being very persistent and determined because you will get so many no's.
Daniel:You'll you'll Yeah. You know, get so many doors that are locked. Eventually, though, if you're determined on what you're trying to accomplish and you have that vision and you continue to be, persistent, you will get there. You just have to believe in yourself, really.
Kevin Horek:Oh, I think that's really good advice. And correct me if I'm wrong, you said earlier in the show that you started this while working full time, and you didn't just, like, quit right away. You worked at this for a couple years, validated the idea, then quit your job. Correct?
Daniel:Yeah. Yeah. I did that, when I just had, 2 kids at the time, and they were very young. And and, my wife, if it wasn't for her, I would not be here today. So so she she helped a lot.
Daniel:So I don't know. You know, that is very important to also keep in mind this family, health is is super important. But I was younger, and I I definitely had more energy and drive that I could, provide towards this, this business. And nowadays, it's just I'm I'm definitely a little bit more consumed with family and which which should be the case. Right?
Daniel:Yeah. But but, if I had to start this over again, it would be definitely a lot harder, you know, having family, you know, and and, and just being honest with everyone. You you really have to have a balance and you have to make sure that, you know, really, health is most important because if you're not healthy enough to do this, then you you shouldn't even start. Right? So, take care of yourself, take care of your family, and then definitely have have that passion and perseverance that, can drive you to the next day, you know, and and and on and so forth.
Kevin Horek:No. I I think that's really good advice. And just to reiterate, I think it's it's good to see somebody like yourself that didn't quit their job. Because you hear that so much that you have to be like, all in day 1 or you're gonna fail. And it's like, no.
Kevin Horek:That's not always the case. And, like, sure. If you can do that, sure. If you can't do that, you can still be successful and, you know, not quit your job right out of the gate. Right?
Kevin Horek:I think Yeah. That's what I really wanted to get on top of that too. Yep. But I but I think
Daniel:I agree.
Kevin Horek:Sadly Yep. We're out of time. So how about we close with mentioning where we can get more information about you guys, Pebblebee, and any other links you wanna mention?
Doug:Yeah. Pebblebee.com. We're available on amazon.com as well, and then, you know, all of our social platforms we're, we're on as well. So yeah. And, and any interesting brands could look us up on LinkedIn.
Doug:But we would love to engage with any brand that's interested in injecting our our valuable technology into their valuable products.
Daniel:And and look definitely look us up, Doug, Peter, and Daniel Daura, d a o u r a, on LinkedIn, and connect with us. We'd we'd be, happy to, take this further on.
Kevin Horek:Perfect, guys. Well, I really appreciate you both taking the time out of your day to be on the show, and I look forward to keeping in touch with you. And have a good rest of your day.
Doug:Great. Thanks, Kevin. Awesome.
Kevin Horek:Thank you, Kevin. Thanks, guys.
Daniel:Thank you for the opportunity. Take care. Thanks. Bye.
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