Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
#dogoodwork is not a label but a way of living.
It is the constant and diligent effort to achieve a new level of excellence in one’s own life.
It is the hidden inner beauty behind the struggle to achieve excellence.
It is not perfect but imperfect.
It is the effort, discipline and focus that often goes unnoticed.
The goal of this podcast is to highlight that drive.
The guests I have on this show emulate this drive in their own special way. You’ll be able to apply new ideas into your own life by learning from them.
We will also have 1on1 episodes with me where we’ll dive into my own experiences with entrepreneurship and leadership.
Every episode is designed to provide you with ideas that you can apply and grow in excellence in all areas of your life, business and career.
Do Good Work,
Raul
INTRO
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: All right.
Welcome back to the pod today.
I have Hal Smith on the pod.
Hal is a founder of H street digital,
a performance advertising agency that
helps eight figure DTC brands unlock
1 million and over monthly e commerce
revenue he's managed over 150 million
in advertising campaigns, which
is very significant for e commerce
startups and fortune 500 companies
and specializes in scaling systems,
teams, and companies for products.
Profit focused advertising,
which I absolutely love.
And he is on a mission to accelerate
brand growth through profits, focused
strategy, forging lasting brands.
How welcome to the pod.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Awesome.
Thanks for having me.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: I wasn't just
saying those little snippets that I love.
I grew up in direct response.
I grew up you have way more
ad spend under management than
in my experience in career.
But the focus on profitability first.
On performance marketing is probably
not only is it, that's where you learn
the hardest because it's, cutthroat,
but I think once you find out what
works, you can almost accelerate.
I'm not going to say this for any
business, but you can pretty much
accelerate a five way and find
ways to grow nearly any business.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Yup.
Yeah.
It's a, I think it's the hardest,
advertising can do, especially
with digital Advertising.
I digital advertising gives you a
lot of, data and insights in terms
of your ability to actually execute
on more profitable campaigns.
However I think it's, there's a
couple of ways you can look at this.
One is the kind of marketing funnel
and how advertising relates to it.
The typical funnel is you have
awareness type campaigns, you have
consideration campaigns, then you
have the sales focused campaigns.
So we're purely focused
on lower funnel sales.
that's strategy that goes into more
upper, funnel self, like awareness
is you just go to the client.
You're like, Hey, we're
big brand messages.
You want your prospective customers
to understand about your brand, right?
You put that into really
good looking, creative.
And then you're really the game you're
playing on digital advertising is,
just where do we place these ads?
Can we make sure we spend the budget?
And then the metrics you're tracking
are basically like impressions video
completion rates, like very simple
stuff like that But in terms of
actually justifying that spend and the
actual impact on the company and their
revenue is it's pretty hard, right?
You can run You know, brand consideration
studies and things like that to give
you additional data, but it you're just
getting the ads and just running them
on the ad platforms and then you let
it sit and then you make sure it spends
his budget and you collect some very,
directional data in terms of its impact
that, that what we do is just extremely
tough because You're really tracking on a
per ad basis, per campaign, per audience,
whatever it might be, like what is
actually driving in terms of real revenue.
And then you actually have to dig and
really understand the profitability
of those product sales for the brand.
And so there are two things going
on there, but what you're trying to
do is maximize profit per unit sold
and then making sure that whatever
that target customer acquisition
costs is allowing you to do that.
And then when you go run these ad
campaigns, you're making sure like
Literally for every single dollar we
spend, how much revenue is it generating?
Is that revenue profitable?
So it's, a lot more work on the kind
of business analysis side the reporting
analytics side, and then the testing
and optimization side, because you have
to do a lot of testing very frequently.
And it's you have to be
very aggressive about it.
You can't let the campaign just run.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121:
It's not set and forget.
No, historically, either myself
personally, the teams that I've led
and developed or agencies and stuff,
I've only have 25 million under belt.
So some, experience at that level.
But I think one of the key things
that you mentioned here are analytics
and tracking, which I think we
should double click on just briefly,
because this is a whole rabbit hole
in itself.
The second is that you mentioned top of
funnel awareness and brand campaigns.
I've actually had debates around other
Brand marketers or agencies around
display ads and all these things like,
yeah, they might work, but if the brand
is powerful enough, those are actually
nominal in terms of its performance.
And you should be focusing
primarily on middle of funnel,
bottom of funnel approach.
What's your take on that?
I know it's really hard to say, Hey,
this video view completion rate.
And we've had a hundred thousand
X impressions, uh, from there
we build more brand affinity.
That's something that I can't really.
Currently get my fingers around.
I can get more around middle of funnel
than bottom funnel conversions and leads
and opt ins and sales on the backend.
But what's your approach and philosophy
around like the spread of the ecosystem?
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: So I guess
my short cop out answer is, because of
I don't really see the value that much,
or I don't understand the impact if we
don't do it, that's why we're focused
on lower funnel, my kind of longer
answer to that is, so it, it, does, it
depends on the value of the brand, how
much brand equity exists in the market.
So to your point, if the brand
is really well known, let's
say Coca Cola, for example.
Yeah, any advertising you do
around that is pretty nominal.
So a lot of brand advertising,
the intention should be
to build up brand equity.
It's to have more and more of
your prospective customers really
just recognize the brand, right?
And understand a little bit
about what you're all about.
So I do think for like a go to
market business, you do have to do
a certain amount of brand building.
And I think a good example of that
recently was, athletic greens, because,
and I didn't know this too, but I think
athletic greens is a brand that's been
around for 15 or 20 years, maybe longer.
And they did a rebrand and they launched
with that rebrand and they did a ton
of brand advertising and everyone knows
athletic greens now, especially in their
target customer, like demographics.
So I think they did a really
good job of building up brand
equity through brand advertising.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: And the
trust And affinity.
Cause they, they leverage
podcasts primarily in those pod
placements are usually 30, 30 K for a
six months or three months per show.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
I was, I would, yeah.
So like Andrew Huberman and Joe Rogan,
they definitely yeah, those, I think
those are really good partnerships there,
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Yeah, well,
I don't know how much they're I I won't
put the name out there, but I was going
to place an ad on one of the pods and
they charge around, I think it was 30 K
for six months or something like that.
I forgot.
It wasn't crazy expensive,
but it's just interesting.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: yeah.
But I think the other reason why
this brand advertising really works
for some types of brands is the type
of product or service they sell.
So for a lot of.
Services out there let's say
insurance, for example, it's
not really a direct response
environment where you're selling it.
Typically people will shop for insurance
when they have to buy new insurance.
And so the idea is you want to
have a kind of brand awareness
built in that consumer's mind.
So when they're ready to make that
purchase, you're top of mind for them.
So with that, you do have to have
kind of this evergreen consistent
advertising that goes On.
and that's just, so
you're top of mind, right?
And so there's certain companies where
it's really important to do that.
That's why I think like automaker
basically car ads is really important
too, because people don't shop new
cars that frequently, but when they're
ready to buy, you want to make sure
that you're top of mind as well.
And so there's that kind of piece to It.
I would say I've ran some pretty
big brand awareness campaigns
and, campaigns where we ran.
Different types of brand studies on it.
So it's like brand capability,
brand consideration.
And frankly, like it's just
a massive money, a massive
amount of money you spend.
And then the data you get back
on these brand study tests is
really not that actionable.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Hmm.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
It's really, difficult.
And frankly, I don't really know.
That's why I like the direct
response performance side of
things, because it's very clear,
like what impact you're driving.
However, I think as an agency
model it's somewhat better to go on
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Oh yeah.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: side
because you have very big budgets
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Yep.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
it's a little bit easier
to go run those campaigns.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Yeah.
No, I've seen behind the scenes.
One of my clients, they worked
again, can't say the name, but
like it's a mall store in the mall.
And they were doing just pure brand.
It was an incredible amount of
spend per quarter and it was a
quarterly
Push.
So that was a pretty,
pretty exciting thing.
But I think also at that level, when
you're focusing on brand heavily, there
are different things that equal success.
It may not always equal performance.
It may equal like the
brands that seen more.
The C suite or leadership who was running
that campaign, wants to get promoted.
I can, these are just hypothesis,
but I've just seen different
examples and different avenues.
But I really do appreciate and
hone in on the performance side.
Which platforms are you
most comfortable with?
Is it all of them or which ones
are you primarily advertising on?
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: yeah.
So we're doing, of our spend is
on meta, so I think it's like.
And then we have a chunk that's
on Google ads to Google ads
is like broadly speaking, it's
YouTube, Google search P max.
So that's accounts for
another, I would say 25 to 30%.
And then there's a sliver
for additional channels.
So we've done stuff on
Pinterest and tech talk
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Hmm.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: except.
In terms of a scalable channel for a
direct response, it really is meta.
Google like P max and YouTube
can scales to a point, but
most of our spends on meta.
And it's funny.
I used to think it may be just
because we had media buyers that
were just particularly good on that.
And that's where we're most comfortable.
But the more and more other
agencies I've spoken to, it just
seems like it's the best platform.
It just allows you to
scale the DR side the best.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Yeah.
The, pixel of the algorithm
has improved significantly.
Tell me, how do you consolidate
tracking or reporting?
And I think this has been.
A huge piece in the industry.
Either you have to create your own
internal, internal tracking or leverage
external and just create like a data pool.
Like how have you like cracked the nut on
tracking These different platforms and
creating at least 95 percent accuracy?
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: yeah.
So I go for 80 percent accuracy.
95 is tough.
That's, but I okay, so there's
a couple ways we do it.
One is most of our clients are on Shopify.
So what opportunities Shopify
provides one is UTM based tracking.
So we assign UTM to all of our ads.
So we go into Shopify too and just check
that we're getting UTMs coming in from
a last click perspective in Shopify.
Two is we set up some type of
server to server integration with
one of these third party apps.
So the one we use most with most
of our clients is called Elevar.
But there are other ones called
like Stape is another One.
then Popsicle is another
one we've used before.
And then we have most of our clients have
some type of third party attribution tool.
So that's a triple whale or North beam.
And then we also do
our internal reporting.
That's more of like an MBR perspective.
So basically what we're doing
there is just total spend by each
channel, total revenue in Shopify.
So we look at it in a couple of
different cuts and the reason for
this is the reason for last click UTM
tracking the Shopify is because that's.
Actual data we can justify, we can
say, Hey, this is our ad campaigns.
We know for sure drove
this amount of revenue.
The biggest problem with last click
UTM tracking is it actually doesn't
reflect what's, happening in the account.
For example, someone sees a Facebook ad,
they, hear about the product, they want
to make a purchase, but they don't click
on that ad and make the purchase, right?
They might go to and Google it a couple
of days later and go make that purchase.
So what we're seeing in Shopify is.
There's no data associated with, Meta.
There's no UTMs for Meta, but
there's UTMs for Google Ads.
And so it would be, it would be
inaccurate to assume that Google
actually drove that purchase, right?
So that's why we had to bring in a third
party attribution tool like TripleWhale,
where it can tie together that attribution
and show the, Meta and Google work
together in driving that purchase.
then on the MER side too, we can
take that broader view and just
basically look at total ad spend
and total revenue and actually see
if we're, have a good ratio there.
so we have to look at a couple of
different cuts and I think the server
to server tracking has helped us on
the attribution side as well, because
it doesn't necessarily improve our
reporting, from an MER perspective or a
UTM perspective, but it does basically.
Aggregate better or data
better for these pixels.
And then also sends these events
back faster to these pixels.
So we're able to give more data to
these pixels faster and allow them
to train better and then get out
of their learning phases faster.
So it's a couple of different
things that we do, but we found
this mix is the most effective.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121:
That's pretty solid.
I like your also approach,
like the broader view.
This is something that I found just.
Again, it's from my experience to
be one of the best ways to look
at it as an ecosystem is Total
dollars in including the team of
anything that's related to sales and
marketing to end total money out.
So that's your return on revenue, any
invested amount because working with
CFOs and people at the, like at a higher
level, just like forced to see like
what's actually coming in and coming
out, just looking at the ecosystem as
a whole and seeing how can we continue
to grow profitably that way again,
working with bootstrap companies.
That's the only thing I know.
One of the things that you mentioned,
and I think this is something
to not gloss over is the offer.
Because obviously you can, the
offer really accelerates if
it's going to tank or scale.
What do you look for in either a
niche or the offer itself or in terms
of profitability for you to really
be able to do, the work that you
need to do to scale up a company?
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Yeah.
Okay.
So I will, I'm going to sit, I'm
going to tell you what we look
at for prospective clients first.
And what we think are
good clients to scale.
And then I'll tell you a little
bit about the product offers.
So for clients, what we're looking at,
and I think this is pretty true Now.
so for anyone looking to start an e
com brand, it's good to listen to this.
But one is your profitability
on your products.
So you, want to have good
margin on your products.
And the key thing to look at or to
understand here is contribution margin.
And the most simple way of explaining
that is like all costs going into actually
getting that product to your customer.
So that's like manufacturing costs,
that's shipping, that's all this
stuff that goes into logistics.
That's a team that has to fulfill
that, whatever it might be.
Okay.
And then how much margin you're
making off of that and that's
your contribution margin.
For us, we find that to be really
important because within that contribution
margin, we have to basically identify
or target customer acquisition costs
and how much we're willing to pay right
for a new customer through digital ads.
What we like is a ratio where
it's basically like one to three.
So your CAC is, let's say.
10 in your revenue is 30.
Typically there's some margin that's good.
And that margin is typically
around like that pure net profit.
After you pay us, after you pay
that contractor, the the CAC
you're getting like a 20 to 30
percent net profit off of that.
That's good for us.
Now that's one thing typically because of
how meta and Google ads works, just based
on CPMs, estimated click through rates
estimated landing page conversion rates.
we have found that it's really
good to have a CAC of, let's say
around 30 bucks an AOV or revenue
of around 120 bucks per product.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Hmm.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: So,
companies that have AOVs that are
over 100 for whatever products they're
advertising for, that's pretty good
for digital advertising because you're
going to have a CAC of around 30 bucks.
It's really difficult just based on CPMs
and click through rates to get a CAC.
Less than 30 bucks.
so that's one thing we
look purely just numbers.
The other thing we look for is the
addressable market size, because if
your addressable market is relatively
limited, you can't actually scale
that much at all, because the other
ideas within any addressable market
you have about, Two to 3 percent of
people who are ready to buy today.
So you market size assume only two or
3 percent of those people are going
to buy today on an ads campaign.
And it's typically going to be much less
than that, but that's how much you can
expect to be new customers every day.
And so if it's too limited, we just know
we can't scale spend to a certain point.
And so it's just gonna be really
difficult to scale into that your
scale sales through digital ads.
Now on the offer side a couple of
things that are really important.
So one is You have to have some
type of urgency on the offer.
So it has to be either time sensitive
or limited time only, or it has to be
based on some kind of marketing event.
So like right now it's
like back to school.
So you can like add in something
and it's this is a limited time only
back to school sale in September.
And so you kind of stacking in this
urgency, because what we see a lot of
times with potential customers and how
we do prospecting campaigns is it might
actually be a good product for them.
They might actually be very interesting,
interested, but they have to have
something to push them over the ledge and
actually get them to make that purchase
now versus sitting around waiting for it.
other things that we found are
helpful for an offer is typically
what we call like a hero product.
Or a gateway product.
And so really thinking about the one
product that you can advertise for, that
will at least get people in the door.
And then you basically re engage
them later on with upsells or
cross sells to increase that cart
value or AOV or lifetime value, if
it's like additional promotions.
But it's you have to think about
what's some product that is really
understandable to the customer, that
there's a big need for it, that solves
a real pain and then really use that
for your focus on that first in terms
of digital advertising, especially when
you're prospecting for new customers.
another key thing with the offer is,
being clear about, and I spoke to this
earlier, but the pain you're solving
is Or whatever type of aspirational
goal you're trying to like sell.
Sunglasses, they don't
really solve a pain, right?
That's like a commodity.
It's a utility it's like basic sense.
However, it makes you look cool.
So it's like, What elements do we
really want to advertise around that?
That would be really good.
That really do speak to these
aspirations of the customer and kind
of formatting the offer around that.
And so within that too,
they're just different ways
of thinking about the offer.
And how you present it.
So one is like how quickly
they can get from their current
state to the ideal state, right?
Whether it's solving the pain or meeting
that aspiration, you want to in the offer
state, like the short amount of time
it takes them to actually get there.
Another thing is, the
amount of effort it takes.
So if they buy your
product, it's less effort.
Another thing I would say,
which is pretty Important.
is you really want to try to as much like
perceived value that the customer would
have and stack that into the offer too.
So it's like really making it seem
like it's a steal, like there was a
ton of value in making that purchase.
So I think, yeah, those are
the key points in the offer.
And then there are like
tactical things too.
Clients always ask us, it's what
percent off should we do, or should
we have a buy one, get one free?
Those things do work and they're good,
but it really depends with that on the the
margins of your products and really trying
to figure out the profitability of that.
So I I am like cautious to recommend
any specific tactic because it really
depends on your actual products you're
selling and how profitable they are.
You can't just be like,
Oh, 20 percent off.
It works every time
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
products, that's really bad for it.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121:
That's interesting.
So first of all, that was a
masterclass on like offers and
what to look for and making sure
that you have the right margins.
So definitely please press pause,
replay that and listen to it again.
The one thing that you mentioned in
the beginning around angry towards
a sense of urgency, how do you get
out of the, or maybe you don't.
Harming the brand equity by
always constantly running sales.
If it's just Oh, we're
discounting this time.
This, kind of the same kind of
conditioning people only to buy on sales.
How do you balance that out?
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Yeah, so
I, okay, it's a really great question
because I don't actually like having just
constant discounting, constant sales.
However, you can be smart about it where
it's not obvious it is constant sales.
So that's why I said there's like
different marketing events that you can
advertise around because all consumers are
conditioned around like key events in the
calendar year, like when to go shopping.
And so like back to school, black
Friday, cyber Monday, Memorial day,
4th of July, that's already there.
And so it is good to always have
some type of offer or sale around
that, because that's when customers
are more primed to do shopping.
And so it's always good to have that.
However, in terms of a, I would
say a more like evergreen promotion
strategy or sales strategy.
The other stuff there is just
like first time customer.
Like you can have certain
sales and deals for That.
would say too, it's not
necessary to always have some
type of sale or promotion.
Like we have clients that don't have any.
pretty much consistent
throughout the year.
They only do stuff around black
Friday, Saturday, Monday, and like
their products still sell pretty well.
So it's just like the power
of how you're framing that
product in the first place too.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: But I
think the key is also to anchor it
towards an event and you don't have
to discount per se, just a discount
and take money off the product, but
just saying, Hey, it's the time.
This is the time right now.
The time is now take action.
And it's
just like, I'm like, when you mentioned
the probability of that product.
You know, reaching their goals or
aspirations switching gears here, I
think scaling agencies in terms of
the level of spend that you have, the
types of clients that you work with,
you're going to have a really tight with
really good mindset and approach because
performance base isn't for everyone.
How did you build the culture or what
did you build the culture around for your
team to be able to withstand that level
of I'm not sure, stress and approach
to client results and Performance.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: a And
as you're running a business, you
constantly have to go back and adjust
and update, but a couple of things.
So one I learned after, I think it's
about seven people you have to come up
with a shared mission, vision, values.
And then you also have to have
pretty clear culture, like you
have to be intentional about
the culture you're making.
I think with seven people, it's a small
enough team where you're just all working
together and y'all have this kind of
shared values anyway, but as soon as you
start hiring people after that, then you
need to have this kind of shared vision
and shared values that you're passing
down and people are following as well.
The other thing I, realized
is, values and culture is just
a, Decision making framework.
And this sounds bad, but it's like,
everyone thinks about culture.
It's Oh, we have like happy hours
and we go out to top golf every
week or whatever it might be, but
that's not culture like culture.
It's effectively I have this very
clear, perspective on how I should
operate as a professional service
provider, and start an agency.
And so I need to make sure everyone else
at the agency has the same perspective.
And so the best way that perspective
is defined is your decision making.
So if some client comes to me
and they're they, they gave
me a certain amount of budget.
And they're like, how
do you want to spend it?
Now, like we have a value at
H3 called radical transparency.
And so it's my personal value.
If a client gives me a budget and
they ask me how to do it, I will
go and try to figure out the best
possible way to spend that budget.
And if they maybe give me a recommendation
that I think is actually pretty bad
for them, like I will tell them that
because I'll be radically transparent.
So you need to make sure that if you
have an employee that has that same
decision, They will follow the same
decision making process that you will.
And I think that's what your culture
really is making sure that you
really define those things and what's
important for how people, should act,
and then you like really instill that
in kind of decision making process.
And so I think the key
thing I figured out was.
I need to have a clear mission
in terms of what we're doing.
I need to clearly define our
values and really distribute it
throughout the company and make
sure people truly understand it.
And it's not just like it's posted in a
couple of different Slack channels, right?
It's people can repeat
those values Constantly.
in the same thing too, in the vision, it's
mission is like what we do specifically.
Vision is like where we're going, like
where we see ourselves in the future
and what impact we want to make from
a broader perspective and the values
is like how we operate every day.
And so that was really important.
And then I think.
The kind of lessons around it.
One is hiring based off of it is really
important, especially your values.
And this, I read this one book called who
by a guy, I think his name's Jeff smart.
That was really impactful for me in
figuring out a good hiring process.
And, with that comes to the tool, it's
called the top grading interview process.
And so we make sure all of our
candidates go through that.
And that's a really good way of
really sussing out if somebody
actually matches their values.
And really try to, it does a good job,
more deeply understanding how that
person's operated throughout their entire
professional career, so you can pick up
on trends and how that, how they operate.
and what else?
I think.
In terms of how we've implemented this
to, we the other process we use is we
use the EOS framework, so that's employee
operating system that is also very focused
on how you implement mission, vision,
values, and culture within the company.
So there are a lot of good tools
within that, that we basically
applied to the business.
And then I also read this book
called, oh, shoot, I'm going to,
I'm blanking on it right now.
I'll have to, I'll have to go back
to it, but it was a really good book
on culture that really just opened
my eyes to the different types of
cultures your, company can have.
And just quick explanation on that.
They're four tiers of culture.
So one tier is it's a lowest tier.
It's my, it's a life sucks.
Second tier is my life sucks.
is I'm great and you're not.
Fourth tier is we're great.
And then fifth one is life is wonderful.
So there are five tiers.
And so what was interesting about
that is I realized I worked at a
couple of different agencies prior to
starting my own, I could recognize.
The, this kind of tiers of
culture that those agencies have.
And it's really, is it it's
any type of company, it's
different types of sports teams.
And I think, Chicago Bulls under Phil
Jackson, that's the fifth year where
it's like, life is wonderful, like
everything was flowing after a point.
Whereas I think he came into the
organization and he's trying to
manage like all the different players.
That was like a tier three
where it's I'm great.
You're not like
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Mm hmm.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
with Michael Jordan because Michael
Jordan thought he was great.
He wouldn't really work with the other
players, same thing with Dennis Rodman,
but he had to get them all together to
where they first believed that they were
great and then life was wonderful, they
started winning championships, right?
So it's like that book has a lot of
cool, like very insightful hacks to
how to start developing that culture
and keep growing it into each.
Next stage.
So that's been a really
good one for me too.
And in terms of building out the team.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121:
I think that's fascinating.
Specifically in the agency suite
how large is your team now?
What's the size of the team?
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
Yeah, so it's 24 people.
not everyone is full time, so we got,
I think, six part time people, but
18 people full time.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: yeah,
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Yeah.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: And I
think the key thing right there, and
like you mentioned, it's a constant
evolution of how to address the team.
And also you're almost becoming a coach
for the individual contributors of the
team is how do I help them develop into
their role in their future and align with
the mission and vision and the values.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's I think with understanding that
you need to bring that mission vision
values in it, like seven people that, I
think it's each I think there's a rule
around it too, but I think it's each
seven people you bring in, you get the
restructure, the, how the team operates,
how they communicate, how people work
with each other, how you build out teams.
And so with each kind of in just
a couple of people, you really
have to restructure the agency
Which is really interesting.
It's been very difficult and we
grew, I think relatively fast.
We went from.
it's a two and a half years old,
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Oh,
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
First year it was me.
Yeah.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Dang.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Yeah.
So first year it was me and
a couple of freelancers.
Second year it was me and
some full time people.
And then this year it's 24 people.
So
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121:
dude, that's exciting.
Yeah.
That when I, was helping as a COO and
it was seven and we did 21 and less
than a year, and then also helping
another in houses, it's, I would agree
that I think the more people you add
on, the more you have to change, but
I think it's more about figuring out
different roles and managers versus
directors and then making sure that
you can have everyone accountable.
It's a, it's an interesting art
leadership and it's not that
there's one answer that fits it all.
Yeah.
I did want to ask seem like you're very
driven and have high standards and expect
a lot of the people that work with you.
And I think I, I do the same.
There's something that you mentioned
about someone that you worked with
in the past that helped you see
and change your perspective around
high standards and hard work.
And as you answer what
does that view look like?
But how do you apply that with
the team now and making sure that
you can be set high expectations,
but also not make them feel like
you're breathing down their neck.
Because I think there's a fine
line between that personality
style and leadership.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: yeah.
It's a great Question.
okay.
So there's a couple of kind of
bullet points I'll throw out there
and I'll double click into each.
So one is really, and it's what
you're speaking to understanding
right people, right seeds.
And so that was a really important
thing for me, because I think for, in
the past, I've tried to, put the wrong
person, in a seat and maybe they're
good at something else, but I was like,
Hey, this person's really good at this
thing, they should be a manager now.
And then they were really
bad at managing people.
And then I therefore thought they weren't
good, but it turns out they were actually
just good at doing the one thing.
So really understanding
that kind of dynamic.
I think another thing is good
expectations and at the front end.
So what we have now with our
team is we have a job scorecard
and we have smart goals.
Job scorecard is basically we work on
with the individual to identify what are
the three key things that they do for
their job and then how to measure it.
And then on a weekly basis, we go back
on our one on ones and we basically go
check on these, this data here in terms
of how they're doing against these key
three items that they do for their job.
goals is basically it's really three to
five goals they have for the next 90 days.
and then it's these kind of like
more task based goals where they're
trying to make either, they're trying
to contribute to the company or make
their job like easier or better,
or basically improve themselves.
And so what I found is set the expectation
with the job scorecard and the SMART
goals, and then trust that they can get it
done and just work with them to identify
these and then check in with them.
But I think if you give them too much
direction, if you give them like very
detailed to do lists to do every day,
if you're constantly checking in with
them and chasing people, one is it
creates that micromanagement atmosphere.
But then two, it creates a problem
where that person then is dependent
on you to tell them what to
do.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Yeah.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
So it's much better.
Yeah, just to set the bigger top level
goals, allow them just to execute, right?
You work on the plan with them and then
you let them go execute on the plan.
And then the second thing is
working on those goals and
those metrics with them too.
So it's not just my perspective, right?
It's not like you have to be doing
this and this is my standard for you.
I work on it in a more
collaborative aspect with that
person to develop that together.
So it's a shared insight on what
they actually should be doing.
I think another thing is there's a lot
we do in terms of how we communicate
and how we prioritize projects.
This is also taken from EOS, but we have
something called like an L10 meeting
that we use with their leadership team.
The L10 is also then used
for individual teams.
So we have a L10 for creative,
we have an L10 for media buying.
within the L10 structure, I'm constantly
driving home the importance of just
prior prioritizing the right things.
Just making sure that there's a good
culture within the agency around
really identifying the highest
impact things that can be working on.
And prioritizing those things and
letting other things frankly drop
if they're just not as big of impact
that kind of like constant, I'd say,
reiteration of that process for working
throughout the agency has allowed
for people to more, independently
just understanding how to prioritize.
And so I don't have to go back and back.
This is a big agenda for the week.
Instead, the teams and their kind of
isolated breakout L10s are understanding
what they need to prioritize.
And and it's still, I would say
a work in progress, but the idea
is it bubbles up from below.
So whatever the leadership team
is executing on is, has been
bubbled up from like respective
team L10s and things like That.
so I think that's where, but
look, I'll be honest with you.
I'd still really struggle with my
expectations versus how the team executes.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Oh Yeah.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: and I think
the other big challenge I have, and you
probably know this is as a business owner.
You have so much more urgency and
what you believe needs to get done
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Oh yeah.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: does.
And employees just nine to five,
you check out and I have some
employees that do work very long
hours and they're very dedicated.
So that's not speaking for all of
them, but some of them, it's just
very tough for me, but I have to
recognize that's, the difference.
That's why, being a business owner versus
an employee, it's a very big difference
in terms of your kind of sense of urgency.
Like I feel like every morning I
wake up with a gun in my head, right?
Or an employee
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Oh my gosh.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
to get this report Out.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: No I know that.
That's the nature of performance
advertising and that's why it's
it's not for everyone, but no,
and I think there's a lot of
wisdom there.
So you do the leaderships with your
direct reports and they do them with
their direct reports for the scorecard
weekly and the sparkle for the quarter,
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Yeah,
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: whatever your
mission is for that quarter to accomplish
so that everyone's working in sync.
Oh, that's pretty sweet.
That's a pretty good structure, but yeah,
I know there's the framework, the way that
you laid it out is very well thought out.
And I think the key thing, again,
going back to the art, like there is
a significant art in leadership for
you to show up to the best of your
ability to empower others, but then also
getting them to have that leadership
or that owner's mentality, which.
May not always happen, but I think it's
part of the process and just ensuring that
they're performing above standard from
what the client can see, because there's
a level of the client just can't see the
difference in performance of what you
would do versus what the team would do as
long as it's above that performance level.
And you're always tracking to get Up.
you should be in a steady pace.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: and
it's funny too, because we have
great relationships with our Clients.
and we, I think in terms of how
we face our clients, it's just a
radical difference from what they've
experienced with other agencies.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Hmm.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Like we're
extremely proactive are reporting that we
have like bi weekly calls where we go over
a lot of insights on campaign performance,
a lot more detailed than what other
agencies have done with them in the past.
And our overall just report with
their clients is really strong.
However yeah, on the back
end of the agency side of
things, I'm just constantly,
I want to say the team is good.
Like we're performing really well.
We've scaled because of that I feel
like you always just, don't know.
There's always stuff that can be improved.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121:
Oh, that's good.
It's always improving mindset.
No, I love it.
How, for our listeners out there,
where's the best place for people to
one, thank you for being on and learn a
little bit more about what you're up to.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120:
Yeah, if you honestly just LinkedIn.
So Hal Smith, if you search Hal Smith
and then LinkedIn, you can find me there.
I'm starting to post
content pretty consistently.
So that's the best place
to reach out to me.
Outside of that, you can
reach out to me on Twitter.
So my handle is how the number four ads.
So how for ads you can always check out
our website at eight street digital.
co so.
co.
raul-_1_08-26-2024_101121: Sweet.
I will put those links in the show notes.
How?
Thanks for being on again, man.
hal-smith_1_08-26-2024_121120: Awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for listening to the podcast.
If you'd like to get more of
these podcasts, please go ahead
and subscribe to wherever you're
watching or listening to the pod.
If you have any suggestions or questions
that you want me to answer on the
pod, or you have a guest that you want
me to interview, please go ahead and
email me all of your suggestions and
questions at podcast at do good work.
io that's podcast at do good work.
io.
If you'd like to give me public
feedback, you can go on Apple
Podcasts, and from there, you
can leave up to a 5 star review.
I would greatly appreciate that.
If you'd like more free resources where
you can get my best strategies to help you
increase your company's performance and
scale profitably, where you can get hand
picked articles to propel your growth, and
you can get trainings and discussions that
I give freely online, as well as low cost
resources, Such as my books and guides.
You can get all of that
by going to dogoodwork.
io forward slash free dash growth
dash resources 90 percent of all
these resources are not behind any
email opt ins you can get instant
access by going to dogoodwork.
io forward slash free dash growth dash
resources Now, if you'd like to accelerate
your progress and shorten the gap between
information and action and start seeing
results in your business, let's work
together to increase your company's
performance and scale profitably and
serve more clients without the overwhelm.
You can request a free clarity call
to see how we can best support you to
reach your goals by going to DoGoodWork.
io forward slash apply.
Again, that's DoGoodWork.
io forward slash apply.
As always, it's an honor to be
a small part in your journey.
This is Raul Hernandez.
Do good work.