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The 2022 season has begun! Nate & Ben wrap up the final news and outcomes from Spring Training, share some bold predictions for 2022, talk about bat licking and smelling(?), discuss some last minute league moves, and have a little draft of their own.
The only Cardinals podcast dumber than running on Yadi. A weekly podcast mostly about the St. Louis Cardinals.
03:12.23
nate
All right here we go hello everybody and welcome back to talking about birds. The only cardinal podcast that like baseball is back and likely a huge waste of your time. My name is Nate Heininger and I am joined as always by my co-host Ben samora.
03:28.39
ben
Hi everybody.
03:32.11
nate
And this week we are going to be talking about the last week of spring training. We're going to make some bold predictions for the 2022 cardinal season and we're going to talk about some news and notes from around the league.
04:18.48
nate
Ah, all right here we go if you have an idea for the opening joke tweet us at talk about birds. Well Ben we made it. We're here if you're listening to this episode.
04:29.77
ben
Holy.
04:33.91
nate
It's opening if you're listening to this episode on the day it comes out. It's opening day baby.
04:37.48
ben
I mean we're lucky to even be here I think like there was a point a couple of months ago where baseball things weren't even happening players couldn't be talking to organizations I was crying in the corner of my basement. Constantly refreshing Twitter for anything to come down the pike and and and here we are. We did it I did it. It was me me and me alone. Yeah.
04:55.76
nate
You You did it I did it a lot of doom and gloom this off season and I think pretty well warranted. It was pretty bleak there for a little while you know I think.
05:08.70
ben
Um, I mean I mean we had reports I think buster only said about 75 times over the winter that there is the relationship between the union and the Mlb has never been this bad not in 1993 and not in lockouts. You know. Past and and the the vitriol that was being spewed back and forth and the way that max scher was talking about and about everything and then you hear the reports that ma sure there's being too mean at the negotiation table and you know all this stuff I mean it really doom and gloom I think that that's where we were and it wasn't that long ago. Um, it is also I would like to add it is insane to me that spring training is already over. We didn't even have that week of like this is boring who are these guys. It was just go go go go the entire time right.
05:50.65
nate
Right.
05:57.80
nate
Yeah, and and this is technically baseball should have started last week right? This is with the new schedule that was forced because of the lockout. So ultimately, no main no regular season games were lost and we're getting ourselves a handful of extra double headers. Full 9 inning doubleheaders which I think is actually kind of fun. Um I have wondered if I have wondered if this is going to result in in some more changes to the structure of the season. There are some players who have asked for a shorter spring training just in general.
06:18.50
ben
Yeah I'm for that.
06:33.78
nate
I'd ultimately be surprised because I think more people prefer the longer spring training than that. But for those who wanted a quicker spring training. We got it this year and from a fan's perspective I don't know because this was also really. Confusing and and frustrating every day that there wasn't spring training when there should have been felt horrible and so this like condensed spring training felt as a as a symptom of the broader problem and not like a new take on a previous thing. So.
06:53.90
ben
Right.
07:08.20
nate
Maybe it would have felt better if we knew going in that spring training was only going to be you know around a month as opposed to the normal like 7 8 ight weeks that you really get from ah pitchers and catchers reporting all the way up to to opening day. Ah, but I mean I did kind of enjoy that once it was going. It was going hard. Ah, could see that still being fun, especially if they finally televise all of the games I could see that being fun. You know.
07:31.60
ben
Well that yes that is a point and I will hit that every single time because it is so annoying you get? you know everyone's getting excited. You're seeing players getting interviewed on Tv and everything like that then you can't go watch the games. Um. Radio broadcasts are fine I've already complained about Rick Horton this season I don't really like listening to Rick Horton maybe he will grow on me. Um, but yeah I think really what it comes down to I mean you look at max shis or he came in and I think he threw 5 or 6 innings on his first start I think as long as the players have expectations for what they can expect.
07:49.70
nate
Yeah.
08:04.64
nate
Yeah.
08:06.46
ben
They'll get ready whether you know, but if spring training six weeks or two weeks or anything in between if they know what to expect? They'll go get in shape. These guys are almost all millionaires. They all have a ton of resources at their disposal. They know what to do except for the kids pretty much. Yeah I would be fine with it being shortened. Um. It does like we are I was kind of alluding to like the week 4 of normal spring training is feels like a slog I think even for fans it's you know how many times can we watch number 96 swing and miss at some major league pitchers ah stuff you know I find it a bit of a slog but hey we've did it.
08:36.49
nate
Yeah.
08:44.49
nate
You did it now ah to be fairb been to be consistent with previous episodes. We've made a pretty clear point that not all players are millionaires. In fact, most of them are not but ah but I see your point. They're professional athletes and they will do what it takes to be prepared for the season.
08:46.90
ben
I Did it again. It was me and here we are.
08:54.94
ben
Sure right.
09:03.52
nate
I think we are going to see an impact of spring this short and spring training in pitcher usage this early on. We obviously already the league is aware of that by the expanded rosters and ah in order to allow the team to deal with it. But again I think it would all be different if we knew spring training had a defined start date. Those guys could get their work in at their normal complexes them not being able to even work out at a so at ah at a team gym is more I think what has slowed down their progression than like the lack of you know. Being able to officially report in February as opposed to the beginning of March or something like that. Ah, but either way ah super stoked that it's back I got my opening day tickets baby ah kind of went back and forth on whether I was going to go or not. But um, you know can't I can't resist.
09:41.27
ben
Brett.
09:56.95
nate
I'm I'm super excited to go. We're going to be down section two something I don't want to tell anyone specifically so you monsters don't find me in the stands and yes, come find me we can share some little buds together.
10:04.86
ben
You you guys know what Nate looks like now go go find him. That's what it is yes, it'll be a fun thing not somebody beating you up.
10:15.82
nate
They Yeah I you can beat me up if you're listening.
10:19.00
ben
I was gonna I imagine 99% of the people listening to this can beat you up and and probably beat me up as well. We are but podcasters this the softest form of human there is.
10:24.60
nate
Um, we don't stand a chance. Um.
10:33.74
nate
Ah, yeah, but I'm excited to be back at Bush I haven't been a home opener in several years now I don't think I've been since maybe 2018 was the last home opener I've been to so I'm excited.
10:48.71
ben
Um, was it the poolho start that kind of pushed you over the limit of of of saying oh maybe I should maybe I shouldn't or were you just you're just feeling it this year
10:56.72
nate
Well we did the research bin. We've got a finesse ridy on the mound I'm feeling the matchup I'm feeling the matchup for pool holes I'm smelling um smelling the dingers I'm going to smelling I don't know.
11:01.24
ben
A.
11:10.57
ben
Smelling them.
11:14.90
nate
Yeah I've I've enrolled in Dinger school. Um I'm there to see it I don't know what pushed me over I mean part of it I'm going with my family and sort of the conversation started and we all I think just kind of ah you know momentum to each other into buying buying tickets.
11:28.39
ben
Sure I mean yeah luckily I you know I've been lucky enough to go to St Louis opening day before too and it is. It's the best having gone to I haven't gone to a ton of opening days I guess I mean really only Rockies and cardinals are the only ones that I can think of right now.
11:32.62
nate
I but.
11:43.91
nate
Yeah, yeah.
11:46.32
ben
And the rockies event. It's a big deal. It is ah it is the of all days unless the rockies are in the playoffs. It is like the only time where Denver is actually into baseball all of downtown gets really really into it which is really fun and everybody's out in the street and then it dies off on game 2 um, like.
12:02.70
nate
Um, yeah.
12:05.28
ben
Even looking at Stubhub for rockies games like that's like $80 for game one and on Stubhub you can get in on Saturday the game 2 for like twelve bucks and it's a division rival.
12:13.11
nate
To be fair. Yeah, okay so to be fair, the the opening day tickets were pretty expensive but on Sunday they's still like ten dollars tickets against the pirates. So yeah, you know it'll be more occupied than a ah rockies game. It still be well attended as Bush Stadium usually is.
12:19.30
ben
Um, yeah, there you go.
12:32.16
nate
Ah, but yeah, opening day is is its own thing I'm going to try to get down there early hang out in ballpark village I'm I'm really excited just the oh you know it I'm going to find Mike Shannon carry him around on my shoulders. He's got it. Well I think.
12:39.22
ben
Are you going to drink some icecold budweisers. He's he's there somewhere right? Yeah, he he'll be at the game I would think oh yeah, of course.
12:50.85
nate
Yeah, well I'm sure he's a part of the ceremony. Um, ah yeah, I'm waiting you know I'm I'm hoping Tlr will just abandon his current team and come down to the ah cardinal home opener. Um, yeah, there's so you know there's just something about the. The festivities of it that that make it you know a particularly exciting game does I got that I got I got a craving for dingers. Ah for every dinger I'm going to eat in entire little buds. Ah.
13:11.45
ben
Yeah, this you nailed it already this the smell of dingers. What else? do you need.
13:21.30
ben
If we that's disgusting I Hope that there's a lot also just a product idea write this down if we ever come out with a candle. Um ah talking about birds candle. It should be the smell of dingers.
13:35.60
nate
The smell of tingers. What does the smell of Dinger's um smell like like what are what do we? What are we combining.
13:39.71
ben
I Don't know you know like sometimes when baseball players they'll like foul off a pitch and they'll smell their bat because it's got like a little bit of woodburn maybe like mix that with some like spilt beer because people are you know, reaching for the ball in the stands and they're spilling beer.
13:56.67
nate
Yeah.
13:59.69
ben
I Think that's good and I don't think we should iterate it on it any more than that and that was really good for me. Ah by me on the first try right? there that I nailed everything after what.
14:07.19
nate
Okay, all right sure I have to say I don't think I've ever seen a player go and smell their bat I Yeah maybe I need to pay more attention that.
14:16.76
ben
You're not watching baseball my friend Yasll Puig used to lick his bat when this would happen but a lot of players will smell it when they'll they'll fall it off and it'll it because the things are the friction. It'll cause like a little burnt sensation and players will smell it. Yeah.
14:27.89
nate
yeah I get I get it yeah yeah I guess I remember pug liing licking his back puig licking his bat I say that 5 times fast. Um.
14:37.19
ben
Yeah. No.
14:45.00
nate
Yeah, spilling. Yeah this spilled beer and burnwood. Okay, that's it you you know what? you're right? You did nail it in one. We'll do that. Ah, next time you're at yankee candle put in our promo call code. Ah hashtag t a b and they'll they'll bring out our so our super secret candle for you. Um, good chat. Let's move on. Ah yeah, um, so the so we had our last week of spring training. Um, a lot of things were decided. We've got the the roster has been finalized.
15:07.47
ben
But that worked out.
15:22.92
nate
Boy were we wrong on a lot of things. We'll talk about that in a minute. But first let's give a shout out Harrison Bader he can buy all the baer tots he needs now he is now a wealthy man. He has signed a 2 year contract just over $10000000 buying out both of his arbitration years.
15:23.20
ben
Yeah.
15:42.63
nate
You know I would have loved for this to be more like a 3 or 4 year deal at the minimum just get a couple more years of free agency and and that's not off the plate or off the um off the table but probably it isn't gonna happen most of the time once someone has signed something like this they are going to go to free agency but you never know.
15:44.38
ben
Um, yeah, um.
16:01.50
nate
It's not off the table. But either way you know good for bader he is now has more money than he could ever need and ah the Cardinals have some security to so some um salary you know security for a guy who you know. I Think we both believe could very well have a monster season when you consider his defensive floor. They they lock in avoiding arbitration and just paying paying the man his money.
16:30.52
ben
Yeah, and I think you know it makes a lot of sense for bader. He doesn't have to go through this the the whole we were complaining about the whole trial and file ah process the other day. What who would want to go through that like I imagine going through that with my job and I I would be irate not to mention you know.
16:38.94
nate
Yeah.
16:47.92
ben
You have a actual team of lawyers and your agent arguing for and against you sounds horrible. So I'm happy for bater. But yeah I think the 1 thing to complain about is why why? not longer and I'd be curious to know is that a bater thing does beer is be bater betting on himself saying why don't we just lock these up. I'm going to go to free agency I want to go get paid. Can't blame the guy for that. But I think you can't blame the cardinal's front office for not pushing the conversation down extension. You know I would love to see bader extended I'd love to see tyler o'neil extended I think those are 2 guys. We talked about this the other week 2 guys that you take a chance on. They were so good in the outfield. Their bat plays up a little bit. They're a valuable player and I think you know we we really are hopeful that baters ah bats are going to or bat is going to take a step forward this year we saw some flashes of it last year and Tyler O'neill I mean
17:39.24
nate
Well, and.
17:39.86
ben
What's not to like? ah so I'm very happy that it's done I'm very happy. We don't have to worry about arbitration conversations going forward but I'd love to see Mo and ah the de wallet you know, open up a little bit.
17:48.88
nate
Open up in the words of ah Teddy K G B pay. The man is money okay moving on. Ah it is a well by all accounts. The um.
17:56.56
ben
Don't know what that is yeah.
18:08.48
nate
Conversation is happening with Tyler O'neill and O'neill has given the green light for that conversation to continue through the regular season some guys put up that wall they say I don't want contract negotiations happening during the regular season which I get O'neill not one of those guys.
18:08.63
ben
Um, yeah.
18:26.97
nate
So It seems like the cardals are making a real effort at that and that conversation is happening whether it happens or not you know who's to know the beer side. We have 0 information on this um or at least I've not seen anything about it. As to where this conversation started and how it resulted in just an arbitration buyout I'm hopeful that they are still able to do something because I think again, he's at his lowest value right now I think we're both projecting pretty big years for him but there is some risk you know he? ah.
18:53.67
ben
Ah, yes.
19:02.68
nate
He's got some holes in his swing Sometimes he's can he can be pretty in inconsistent. Um, and I don't know maybe maybe the.
19:07.58
ben
Yeah I I think we love bater but you can definitely criticize him I think you could say that he goes a little too hard speaking generally like obviously you want to see guys going Max effort.
19:18.22
nate
Yeah.
19:23.70
ben
But Badder's actually one of those rare guys where you wish he would pull back a little bit sometimes the overthrows sometimes the over swings sometimes the overdives and it's you know it's really fun to watch. It's really entertaining I think obviously as he ages he'll he'll mature into his game a little bit more like you. You know you watch Bryce Harper
19:25.67
nate
Um, yeah.
19:42.40
ben
And he doesn't really dieve for balls anymore. But he plays 150 games a year. So I think there's probably a balance that baer is going to find but yeah like I think we're all in agreement pay the man keep him in red. It's really fun having a top 5 center fielder in baseball.
19:44.72
nate
Yeah.
19:57.27
nate
Yeah, you know better. You can still whip your luscious locks around after making a catch you don't have to have gone full sprint into a into a belly flop in order to do that. We're also going to love it.
20:12.71
ben
It was it last year when he was diving for that ball in Center and the he missed the ball just slightly and I think he rolled over it and cracked a rib. Oh my God appreciate the effort but less of that good done without that.
20:19.52
nate
Yeah, yes, big. Ouch yeah, could have done without that. Ah Andre palante has made the team. What do you think of this guy.
20:35.42
ben
Sure? Um, I mean you know there's a you hear the raised folks and you hear Dodgers folks talk about how not only does the bullpen need to have your your bullpen aces in it but different arm angles and different looks are really important at least that's something that. Teams who I consider to be good at running a ball club. That's something that they've been focusing on and my goodness this guy has a weird arm angle. He is. He's like tomahawk over the top type guy I'm trying to think there was that picture for the diamond backs for a while. Um, whose name is just absolutely escaping me right now and I'll I'll look that up once I'm done blabbering on endlessly. Ah, but what I love is ah I love that he's got the big over the top different look no one on the team throws like that I think that's that's a win.
21:16.50
nate
So we're just never going to get the answer then.
21:28.88
ben
Um, and then I think this stuff is gonna be great I mean seeing people swing at his fastball which is good but it is not you know carera good or Alex Ray is good. Ah but people swing at it. They're late on that fastball and that what is that slurv over the top breaking ball type thing that is going to play forever.
21:47.47
nate
Um, yeah.
21:48.78
ben
That that will as long as he can spin the ball like that that will be effective. He could throw that pitch 3 times in a row and I think we'd all say great job.
21:56.80
nate
Great job. Um, yeah, it's ah he's definitely an interesting picture and and I think you know with this extended roster for the first month. It's going to give the cardinals chances to really look at a bunch of these different relievers especially with the likely bullpen fifth starter. We're going to be using a lot of guys out of the pen and I think we're going to learn a lot in this first month about who is truly effective at the major league level and what does our bullpen look like and how do you slot in these different guys and different use cases. So I was pretty excited to see that he made the the roster. I was not expecting it Josh Cole mentor okay yes
22:36.70
ben
Josh Coleminter do do people remember Josh Coleman or he is a very average pitcher made better by that weirdass delivery and not as weird as pallante pollante looks a lot more athletic. But yeah, that's. Sorry I just had to get that out because I'm sure there were some people that were like you morons.
22:52.62
nate
Yep.
22:55.99
nate
Well, they were like that either way so that wasn't that wasn't helping. Yeah okay I Brendan Donovan or ah, yeah, Brendan let me just.
22:58.93
ben
That well the rest I'm not going to apologize I'll apologize for getting ah forgetting about ah Jos Colemanter
23:11.55
ben
That is a player.
23:14.89
nate
Now I'm going to cut all of that hold I like said his name and then and then thought I said it wrong. But I said it right? So ah, nete fuck up. Okay Brendan Donovan who I was certain based off of how ah.
23:17.74
ben
But but.
23:34.60
nate
Oli Marma was talking about him everyone was talking about him I was certain he was making the the big lead club. He did not he was sent down to join everyone else that we thought was making the big league club. Ah Nolan Gorman Wanya Pez we didn't think burluson wood but we thought there was an outside chance now Brendan Donovan all going down to to create a ah pretty stacked triple a team right now if you ask me? but ah, what do you think of this I think you also thought he was going to make the club.
24:02.60
ben
Yeah I was pretty sold. Um, even to the point where I was just resigned to the fact that that's not a good thing or a bad thing I just thought it was happening the way they were talking about it the way that the club is made up. Obviously there's been an emphasis on left handed bats this offseason he is a left handed bat might have a little bit of power. Ah, could spell people all over the ah infield and outfield so made a lot of sense. Really what I think I don't think this is any slight on on the players or or anything like that. This is the cardinals thinking oh my god we need pitching. We need a lot of pitching early in the season we're going to be throwing a lot of arms out there. I think they're hesitant about injuries. We've talked about this There's a lot of guys who are injury prone in the starting staff in the bullpen right now and rather than going making a balanced bench or anything like that they are focused solely on pitching. Maybe this will change once the rosters reduce down. And size or maybe it'll change once once health proves out and and guys are are able to stay um, not only in the off the I l say off the il but in games longer and and soak up innings and you know that's going to be really important for michaelas and and Hudson in particular if I had to pick on 2 guys. Ah, but that's that's really what I got out of here I would also just like to take this point to say the cardinals should get another major league picture I almost don't even care who it is go get another major league picture. Please it is going to get desperate. And they're either going to falter or have to pay a dollar 50 on the dollar type trade or or something like that and I really don't like that.
25:43.34
nate
Well I think they made up their mind quite a while ago on on that front so we'll see yeah I think rank emon does would be pretty expensive John means yeah I think he's going to have a good year with Baltimore with those ballpark changes.
25:50.70
ben
Um, drinking Montage John means
26:00.44
ben
He that actually that might be true, but we know the Orioles can't evaluate talent properly. So why don't we just flee some just take care of that mo.
26:02.68
nate
So.
26:10.43
nate
Yeah, sure just flee some I mean to be fair, our entire middle of our order is is made up of hitters that we fleeed someone for So um, yeah, all right? That's fair Mo go fleece someone? um.
26:19.96
ben
Yeah.
26:28.83
nate
Speaking of pitchers Jack Flaty is officially on the I l no surprise there. Ah but he seems optimistic starting a throwing program soon. So maybe you know that's like making a trade right? there ben.
26:30.75
ben
Yeah.
26:40.94
ben
I hate that? Um, yeah I think you know it's it's it's it's it's hard to feel about I don't know how to feel about Jack Fla is I guess what I'm saying like he is in unbelievably good shape. He is a freak show athlete just like. Unbelievable to watch him do anything on a baseball field. Ah, but those things don't add up to being healthy. So I think that it's it's probably a healthy stance for cardinals fans to take that if we get anything from from him this year that's great
27:04.89
nate
Right.
27:15.68
ben
Um, I mean if he gives us over a hundred innings this year I would say that you should be ecstatic and it might not be ace level but endings from Jack this year are that that would be very very nice. It just.
27:19.29
nate
Yeah, yeah.
27:31.40
ben
It's hard to feel confident right now for where I'm setting.
27:32.34
nate
Yeah I think we all have pitch injury ptsd too. It does. It's like I can't think of a picture injury that we've had on this team on any anybody that's been like oh yeah, it really was just like they're out for a couple weeks and they came back and they were immediately effective again.
27:48.69
ben
Right? And and I think the the part that worries me more is that the time that it happened he wasn't able to get built up I Really hope he doesn't rush back as long as they're being pragmatic and slow and thoughtful about returning him I can I can retract that doom and gloom.
27:52.31
nate
Um, so yeah.
28:08.39
ben
Thing I said earlier but I I worry I worry because you know I think the cardinals are very confident in themselves right now and I think that Jack is you know, obviously for many reasons highly highly highly motivated to get back in the starting rotation. So hopefully they they you know slow roll it and.
28:21.62
nate
Yeah.
28:27.55
ben
He stays as healthy as possible.
28:27.84
nate
Yeah I agree. So once again for maybe the eighth year in a row we're hearing from cardinal management that yadi is going to take a step back from catching duties and the backup will play a bigger role. What are the odds that this is actually the case Ben. What do you think? do we see ah any difference from in playing time for yadi assuming health you buying or selling the narrative.
28:47.37
ben
With this avenue.
28:57.19
ben
Are you asking if I'm buying or selling this narrative I'm buying it I believe it I think that ah what I've gathered from early spring training and the conversations that are happening around all of this. Is that marmall is a very good communicator and he can set expectations and he doesn't seem to really he he seems to be very direct. Um, and what kind of makes me think that is the way that poolholes has kind of talked about everything like if there was ever a superstar. It's Albert Poolholes especially in cardinal red. Um, but the fact that he's being very humble. He's saying they're going to use me how they're going to use me I'm going to do everything I can do to make this team better I think that I think that marma is the guy to ask yadi. It's not about you playing as many games as possible. It's about you being as fresh and effective as possible.
29:49.48
nate
Yeah.
29:51.29
ben
And it's just a fact of the matter that when you you can't play like you could play when you're 20 when you're 38 um that's just a fact that you can be any type of world beating amazing player. You just slow down and I think that you know we're talking about some of those teams that we should be envious of the rays and the dodgers.
29:56.31
nate
Um, yeah.
30:11.22
ben
They're very intent on giving guys rest and and putting them in the right position I called out the giants for that as well. I mean a big part of the giant success last year was giving guys time off having guys just take one at bat and taking the rest of the day off really being thoughtful about how to use those guys.
30:14.60
nate
Ah, yeah.
30:30.62
ben
And yadi can offer value on the bench too. Um I don't like the idea of yadi taking some starts at dh I really hope that it doesn't happen. Although I understand how hard headed he is and that might just be Ali Mar mall playing a little bit of you know you you give me one I give you one type of thing.
30:47.10
nate
The sheriff.
30:49.89
ben
But I'm I'm buying it for now. Obviously I've been proven wrong before um and I think like I mean hopefully we see what Kensor can actually do.
30:58.57
nate
Yeah I mean he's now what third in a row of well-regarded catching prospects that the cardinals have had that. Ah at least 2 going Carson Kelly and then kisner and then obviously now we have Herrera and the miners who kiner has like Kelly has gotten. Very little chance to actually show what he can do other than maybe once a week so I'm excited for Kizner to get a chance to play a little bit more I'm willing to buy it for the same reasons that you've already said and I also heard I think it was mar mall said at 1 point yadi can play first base also and I just. Truly do not understand that I think you might be right that they're just trying to make yati feel a a little better while ever when everyone when the news is about yachty playing less I'm sure a guy who is known for playing a lot that just doesn't feel good. So.
31:52.51
ben
Yeah.
31:54.53
nate
We'll see I mean last year it was obvious he was really good at the beginning of the year at the plate and by the end. Yeah, he was arguably the worst bat in the lineup. So keeping him fresh.
32:01.99
ben
Well he he he showed up with a new approach and I'm curious if that approach can kind of sustain itself with rest with adequate adequate rest and and putting him in against guys that makes sense to put them in. Don't put him in against the guy that's throwing 95 plus all day give the kid.
32:18.87
nate
Right.
32:21.81
ben
And opportunity there and also you know if there's 1 thing that yadi is good at is coming off the bench or or just situational hitting. There's going to be opportunities like that where it makes sense to put in yadi over Kenser. Um, if you know if you got a guy on second and and you just need one run. Yadi still has the bat control to make sense right there and do some good situational hitting and then maybe you you pinch run for him right? after that if he gets on base. But yeah I think it makes sense and I also think like something that yadi I hope is on board with and I hope he understands is I think this is how catches are just going to be handled from now on. Obviously you have a hall of fame guy he'll he'll probably get a little bit more starts but look at teams across the league and nobody's catcher is starting this many games except for Salvador Perez and I would argue. There's diminished returns there. So I hope this is just the way that it goes ah cardinals.
33:10.10
nate
Yeah.
33:15.62
ben
Seem to be open to taking a more modern approach in the way they utilize their players. So I hope this is just the way it is.
33:23.54
nate
Yep, um, either way, this will be the last year that we're asking this question. So I yeah yeah.
33:27.70
ben
Which is a bummer Still I mean who does I Just love watching yadi So that that also needs to be said is I I Love the man.
33:34.41
nate
Um, he just got announced as the head coach for oh shoot What it was like the Venezuelan Winterball team. Yeah, yeah, which is exciting I Love seeing him coach these these. Ah.
33:42.39
ben
Winter ball. Yeah.
33:53.60
nate
So world Baseball classic teams and and just his involvement with the the broader World Baseball stage I think is fantastic. He's made it pretty clear that he doesn't want to be a major league manager but I don't know if he keeps doing these other you know coaching and management jobs wouldn't surprise me if.
33:53.26
ben
Easy.
34:12.94
nate
Some time removed from the majors makes him end up wanting to come back I think we'd all love to see him back at the cardinals in some sort of coaching or special assistant to the Gm or whatever it might be right.
34:15.63
ben
Yeah, and you you.
34:22.17
ben
Yeah, yeah, you have to imagine that after he's done playing the cardinals are going to roll out the red carpet and he's invited every spring training in perpetuity and if he just wants to come and sit on the bench or do anything he'll he'll be welcome back with open arms.
34:31.46
nate
Um, yeah. Well and he's he's made an interesting point about why he doesn't want to coach is that he doesn't Feel. He'd be able to make the decisions that a manager has to make in the moment that might hurt your team's chance of winning at that time but is better for the team in the long run.
34:50.88
ben
Um, right.
34:56.27
nate
He considers himself too much of a in the moment fierce competitor to be able to have that broader view which I do think is a very self-aware ah thing to say you know I think yeah yeah, yeah, um.
35:05.40
ben
Oh I've watched this guy play for almost twenty years I can co-sign that yes I agree with that evaluation.
35:14.15
nate
But maybe with time that made dull. You know that? ah not his ah his drive to win I would be very surprised if that ever dolls but his um inability to manage that in the moment may ah evolve as he gets away from from being a player and. I don't know just just something I was thinking about Maybe you know he doesn't go right into coaching like a lot of these guys do once they retire but he could go and hopefully just ball out somewhere and have a good time for quite a while and then return to the cardinals but yet no matter what he's going to be at home openers I mean there's going to be He's going to be in the row of of ah all he's gonna be on the wall in between Smith and and Shad East and and you know in pools they're all going to be ah you know in the retired numbers. So we're going to see them forever.
36:01.13
ben
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and in the past we've talked about the the statues in front of Bush Stadium of wine Wayne Wright pitching to Yaddier Mal I think everyone in St Louis is on board with that that should just be commission now.
36:11.28
nate
Yeah.
36:17.88
nate
Yep, yeah yeah, I'm lobbying that you know yachty wayno if he retires and pools. They just go into the cardinal hall of fame next year we don't let's not bother with any um, you know any delay any sort of you know, expectations of of gaps. Just.
36:26.94
ben
Yeah, yeah.
36:35.83
nate
Let's just do it next year or at ah the last game of the season. Let's just introduce them into the cardinal hall of Fame What are who are we who are we for all right? Well let's go Yeah, ah opposite of of one of the oldest players in baseball. Um.
36:40.51
ben
The.
36:52.70
nate
We did get a chance this spring to see some of our favorite prospects and though none of them really made the bigley roster. What was your takeaway on Nolan Gorman from spring.
37:02.52
ben
I think we were watching a player press I think we were watching a player who was probably told to some degree hey if you have a nice spring. You could make the big league club and my god he wanted to do that he he was doing everything he possibly could swinging out of issues. And I think you know you look at the numbers and and you've watched his his stuff from mind Mill League baseball he's a better hitter than we saw. Um I think we saw some good moments. It was just I would say from a fan's point of view, especially those of us who haven't seen him play minor league games or at least very often seeing him over at second was nice. Um I don't think he. Is not Colton Wong or Tommy Edmund by any means but seeing that he can do it ah is really encouraging. It does look a little bizarre seeing a man that large playing second base and there's also something I mean coltton wonng I guess is the only one I could really think of but even Colton Wong did
37:40.42
nate
Staff.
37:56.81
ben
Doesn't have an arm as strong as Corpsman So I think that's kind of fun. Um, and you know that I think that was encouraging I will be very curious to see I think if he has a hot start in Aaa Um, would not be surprised if he's called up pretty quickly.
38:11.60
nate
Yeah, yeah.
38:13.35
ben
Um, but again that also depends on like what we talked about about picture health and kind of how guys are able to extend how many endings people are able to throw and what bullpen needs look like but yeah I think it was you know that that was the most we've ever got to see and play at least on the big League club and even though it wasn't all great. I Think you can leave that feeling pretty encouraged and pretty the hype train rolls on.
38:35.50
nate
Yeah I have no reason not to still be incredibly excited about about Nolan Gorman and his future with the cardinals I think you're right? It's almost more roster dynamics and the addition of guys like dickerson and poolholes and just the need for some. Flexibility that resulted in him not being there I think the cardinals are very much a team that would rather have him take every day at bats than serve sort of a backup platoon role on the bench in St Louis and so either performance from guys like Newt bar and even edmon. Or so Sosa I think if any of them falter and Gorman rakes in triple a like he has then he'll be right back? ah.
39:22.10
ben
Yeah I wonder like and I'm sure the Cardinals have a number or or ah, ah, ah, a point that that they will become impatient with edmon. But how poorly does edmon have to hit for them to make that that that move because obviously he's dynamic around the field.
39:36.40
nate
Ah, yeah.
39:40.79
ben
And we know he can. He can make some contact and and he can run quite a bit but I do wonder is it is it if he sits around 200 is if he sits around two fifty if he's just not taking walks I'm I'm sure that there is some type of qualifier that moe and team have and and if they're not going to let us know but curious to see. Ah, you know I think Edmin's play like you you were kind of alluding to I think it will have a lot to do with Gorman's future
40:03.54
nate
Yeah, yeah, and I think the the clear and obvious competition for the leadoff spot this spring that I think and I'm hoping is going to Carlson is also an is also an indication of the.
40:17.21
ben
Do carl.
40:23.34
nate
Club's perspective on Edmond's offensive capabilities. He does not have the op to be a ah leadoff man not when we have someone like Dylan Carlson so yeah and then there's always the health thing. 1 guy gets hurt which will happen.
40:32.67
ben
Um, right.
40:41.19
nate
Everything starts to slide up. Um, so after Gorman there's JuNupez who was arguably even more hyped coming into spring because of his breakout last year what do we think about yupez now now officially sent back down.
40:57.51
ben
I mean I think that the cardinals were going to give him a shot pretty much no matter how spring went until pool showed showed up. So ah, it's kind of hard to evaluate. He did not have a crazy good spring but he looked like a professional hitter. He looks young.
41:05.10
nate
Yeah.
41:15.45
ben
Know the power is there but Poohos kind of took his job. He is young. Um, but Pohos kind of took his job. Yeah, so so so I I don't know if you could really evaluate. You know this this decision other than like.
41:16.90
nate
He not only looks young he is young. Yeah, he looks old as hell but he's ah he's very young. Yeah yep, the old man took his job.
41:34.17
ben
It is slightly disappointing I've often complained about in the past when old players are taking way at bats from young players especially when those young players are showing promise. But I think cardinals fans understand this one I mean I think I understand this one I guess it's really just disappointing that we're really not going to see yepez until next year at least on any. Real full time type schedule. That being said I think cardinals should also ah cardinals fans should also prepare themselves if they do decide to go for a John means or if they do decide to augment the roster in some way your pez is probably really high up on that list as far as trade pieces especially with the dh being everywhere now.
42:08.90
nate
Yeah.
42:13.28
ben
I would not be surprised if teams are calling on him already with him being sent down I would be.
42:18.44
nate
Yeah, yeah, ah, yupez and burrlison I think are two very clear trade targets I can't imagine the cardinals will trade Gorman and so then you go 1 slot down and yepez and and or or like walker.
42:33.99
ben
Yeah.
42:36.50
nate
Um, but ye Pez and Burla and seem like obvious trade pieces to me I hope not obviously well I don't know we need a pitcher So I'd be be cool with one of them being moved for the right guy but I really want to see if he at the major league level with the Cardinals I Just want to see what it looks like see how he does.
42:52.16
ben
And there I think there's something fun about just a guy kind of coming out of nowhere and then contributing to your big league team I mean not not the same player as Matt Carpenter obviously but how much fun was that I remember when he was coming up. We're like oh this guy can walk.
42:55.69
nate
Yeah.
43:07.84
ben
Then he comes up and leads the league in doubles and then starts hitting home runs and playing a good second base I mean that's just a lot of fun.
43:08.42
nate
Right? Yep so Ben Spring Takeaways who's your mv spring what's your what's your big takeaway from this from this ah last month
43:24.81
ben
Yeah, you know spring training numbers. Don't matter right? but my goodness did paul goldsmid I'll actually say both the pauls my like to see goldsmidt I mean the 1 thing and again spring mat training numbers. Don't matter. But.
43:28.34
nate
Right? But they do a gold. Yeah.
43:44.19
ben
You know if we there is anything to criticize Paul Goldsmid on is that he's a slow starter and I think that it is very reasonable for cardinals fans to feel pretty jazz the fact that he is not starting slow at all. He came out of the spring or came out of spring hitting 500
43:47.20
nate
Yeah, yeah.
44:00.97
ben
With power we got stories about new bats and weight but distribution we got stories. But yeah, um I think it's pretty exciting and especially the way that he played last year I mean the guy he's just unbelievable. So I think cardinals fans should reasonably be hyped about that reasonably be hyped about ah Paul de young I think.
44:03.95
nate
That's it's that Puck pat.
44:20.72
ben
And and really I should qualify this with I know nothing about anything. Um.
44:23.57
nate
You don't need to say that that anyone who listens to the show knows that.
44:27.62
ben
I want to be very clear I know nothing about anything but I've watched a lot of Pauly young at Batts like we all have I've probably watched like 80% of paul de young's major league at- bats and something that you see and that can be frustrating about him is just how bad his timing can be.
44:34.47
nate
Ah. Ah, yeah.
44:45.10
nate
Yeah.
44:46.88
ben
And how much on his front foot. He can be and just just the swing balance just not being there and I think something that I am really encouraged but I'm being tentative about I am not anointing him the Mvp of the season or anything like that was how he was really keeping his weight back. Really getting the bat through the zone and every time he touched the ball it jumped off his bat but seeing him have that stable base and bringing the bat through the plane without him throwing his weight forward was i. I want to be you know I think a couple episodes I was ago I was saying give the job to Sosa. But after seeing that I mean maybe tinkering with his batting stance and his swing 100000000 times over the offseason and talking to every yeah every batting coach in all the land. Maybe he locked into something. Um, but.
45:23.67
nate
Right.
45:39.33
ben
Yeah, there's obviously tremendous value in a shortsop that can play a very steady defense and hit 25 plus home run. So I'm kind of getting a little excited about his spring and what he was showing us so don't know if that's silly. But anyways to somemate that all let's go. Paul's
45:55.68
nate
Give it to the pauls. Um, yeah I mean it's hard to have any other takeaway from spring training than mostly Paul Goldlschmidt I I mean what? a what? Ah yeah, all all the things he's said I don't need to repeat it but he was It's just he's so much fun. And um I have the same hype the same tentative hype for for Paul de young. Um, he's done it before not for entire seasons but he's been great before. So let's see it. Let's see it ah for the whole season. I am calling it pauly young and vp. ah yeah yeah ah I from a pitching standpoint. Everything's been. You know fine. Ah Matt's had ah had a really good performance here in the last day of of the.
46:34.69
ben
Let's go of the league or just the Cardinals Wow. Okay.
46:50.96
nate
See of the of spring. It's just been nice to see outside of the injuries that we had at the beginning of the spring training. Um, you know everyone has made it to the end. No new news about pitching health. So. Nothing nothing crazy outside of you know some of these guys like Brooks and polante but otherwise everyone kind of performed like you'd want which is that they got in their work and no 1 looked awful. No 1 looked necessarily over the top phenomenal. But I'm even less interested in.
47:08.79
ben
Right.
47:24.81
nate
Pitcher spring track spring stats I think there is a timing element to to hitting like you were talking about that you can pull a little bit more from but pitching who knows what they're doing up there. They might just be up there trying to throw curve balls all day to practice it. So.
47:37.65
ben
Yeah, can I hit the bottom left corner with a change up today. Maybe yeah.
47:41.64
nate
Yeah oops. No I could not um, all right? So I all right? Let's end this but all right, let's end this segment with some. Bold predictions for the 2022 cardinal season Ben why don't you hit me.
48:05.51
ben
Oh well I'm I mean these I'm going to be talking through some very Cardinals red glasses right now. But I think all right.
48:11.35
nate
Of course we this is a cardinal podcast. We know all the possible bad outcomes. We know. Okay and we are prepared to talk about them when they happen. Ah, but for now this is for some teams. And and maybe the cardinals this year this is the best we're gonna feel about the 2022 cardinals. So let's ah, let's stick with the bold predictions. What? what are your thoughts.
48:29.52
ben
And.
48:37.38
ben
I think miles michaelelis is going to come back into his own that first year that we had him when he came back from Korea he had ah a sub three yeah era he was using all of his pitches in the zone. Not walking guys I think he's going to take over as not a traditional ace because he doesn't have the strike out stuff. But he's fine with that He's going to use the defense he's going to pitch over 200 innings. He's going to be healthy all year and he's going to limit walks with cardinals needed so badly last year I see him getting top 10 sa young votes this year I think he's going to like I said eat up innings and he's going to be the most valuable pitcher.
49:15.29
nate
Okay, so I had a very similar one but not Michael is um but I like it I definitely like the 34 year old vicher suddenly having ah the best season of his career and and yeah.
49:15.33
ben
For the Cardinals this year book it ship. It let's go. Um, oh okay.
49:31.47
ben
He's healthy. Yeah.
49:33.22
nate
I mean I like him lizard king baby um Daniel Hudson wait what the fuck did I just say Dan damn it I'm gonna cut that out too. Why it did I'm off I am off today. Um.
49:37.51
ben
Daniel Hudson Back Hudson
49:52.32
nate
Daniel Hudson ah 40 yeah Daniel Hudson is a reliever for the Washington nationals. Yeah, all right take two Dakota Hudson he's back he's healthy
49:53.96
ben
We're just too excited about the about Baseball. Um, yeah, he's like fine but definitely not a cardinal.
50:11.62
nate
In a similar way to what you're saying about michaelas where he's not going to be a traditional ace because of the strikeouts I think as stuff plays up with the cardinal defense behind him. He is young. We've only seen really the beginnings of his career. He comes back and he is. The most valuable picture on the cardinals this year sure that'd be great. ma xalak says that into his prayer beads every night.
50:30.91
ben
Why don't both of those things happen that would be just go. That's direction my other yes he does um my other guy that I'm going to pick and this one's probably even less bold because I think. Cardinal nation and especially the folks listening to this podcast are very high on dill Carl coming into this next year but I think Dylan Carlson is going to put up the second most war of any player on the cardinals this year I think he's going to steal 20 bases I think he's going to hit twenty home runs I think his outfield play is going to get better. And I think he's going to crush it in the leadoff position I think he's going to s slide in right? below Pauly Goldsmidt as far as war and like I said become the second you know if not a superstar launch himself into star status making an all-star team this year I think he's going to really take a step forward. And we're going to just swim in that beautiful cardinals outfield all year that young powerful defense forward with great offense cardinals outfield and it's going to be a blast.
51:36.41
nate
I I'll take it I'll have seconds.
51:41.32
ben
Yeah, yes, please.
51:43.97
nate
Ah, yeah I was also going to say Dylan Carlson is the best outfielder by war on the cardinals this year so you're going all the way past everyone and saying that he is going to be beside behind Goldie. Going to be the best player on the cardinals.
52:00.74
ben
I do I think he's going to I we saw him kind of tap into the power a little bit at the end of last year we saw him taking his walks a little bit better at the end of last year he's only had more time to to season and and marinate on that and I'm I'm expecting big things I think he ah. You know if there had to be a breakout candidate and maybe people would argue he broke out a little bit last year he's the guy I'm tapping.
52:24.10
nate
I Love it. Um, okay I'm going.
52:26.15
ben
Also Cory Dickerson hits 50 home runs now just kidding.
52:32.10
nate
Ah, aber poolhos breaks Barry Bonds is record and steals 20 bases. Yeah yeah, ah okay, well well I guess we'll see we'll see we. We're calling some big shots here but I love it. Um.
52:38.46
ben
There we go? Oh no, okay.
52:51.21
nate
So before we go into our next segment and talk about some more movement around the league want to take this moment to remind everybody that this podcast is supported on http://patreonpatreon.com/nate if you love the show and want to help it grow want to support us help us expand our. Operation here. Um, check it out anyone who subscribes at any level will gain access to our Discord where we are slowly building a community a place to enjoy the cardinals together games are about to start, you know we're going to be in there live chatting as games are happening. Ah, really really excited about that. So check it out if you can't or are unwilling to support us via Patreon totally understand you know there's a lot going on in the world right now what we would love is if you just take a few minutes to ah leave us a review on your favorite podcast player. It really does help helps us ah, show up hire on various lists as people search for podcasts. Um, and we just love hearing from you. We'd like to know what you like about the show on that. What's it.
54:00.60
ben
Or don't like or don't like tell us what we suck at.
54:06.12
nate
Yeah, just a tweet at Samora with anything that you don't like about Ben don't don't say anything to me I am fragile I I do want to take a moment to shout out.
54:12.73
ben
Yeah, thanks dog.
54:25.23
nate
Are perrept who left a review calling us spooky good as well as a number of other things now I did get a little scared reading this review so I'm not appreciative of that. But um, thank you so much for your kind words. We also want to shout out Jenny tab. 5 who said, finally saying finally, there's a podcast like us I'd say finally Jenny um, we're we're here for you. So ah, thank you for your wonderful your wonderful words we we really appreciate it and to anyone who is taking the moment. To review us we we truly appreciate it. Um Ben where can people find us online.
55:08.35
ben
Yeah, make sure to check us out on Twitter at talk about birds. We're obviously tweeting constantly about baseball stuff especially when the games get started. Can't wait for that. Just get get the hype going around and and share it all over the internets. Ah, we are slowly growing our Instagram account you can follow us there at talking about birds. Um, you know, give us likes and pokes and share stories and all that it'sta stuff that people like to do um as I've been plugging recently if you have any questions about Nate specifically talking about birds at Http://gmail.com is a very full life. He wants to share it with you but he's a little shy, ask him questions. He's he's here for you like I've said ah pizza homeowner I think he's got a 5 k coming up soon. Ask him these questions. He also likes video games. Um, he has actually let's plug the short game another podcast that nate hosts called the short game where they're doing all kinds of fun things over there.
56:06.16
nate
Yeah, thank you and I'll be at the cardinal 5 k if anyone's gonna be there. There's a part where you get to run the warning track. Ah I'm gonna Rob a few home runs all out there. So um, yeah, let me know if you're gonna be there'd be fun to see some of you.
56:21.48
ben
And ah, you know we also are very reliant upon word of mouth tell your Cardinals friends if you're enjoying this.
56:29.52
nate
Tell your friends tell your enemies Um, tell everyone spray paint street signs. Um, whatever you feel is.
56:45.74
ben
Don't We're not encouraging that respect your community.
56:49.45
nate
I am ah respect your community by sharing us with them. Ah Rob a bank scream our podcast name as you run out in a hail of gunfire all of these things we fully endorse. Yeah.
57:00.94
ben
Huh Okay I'm gonna take a step back.
57:08.60
nate
Ah, okay, so the spring training wrapped up and we did get some ah final end of end of spring moves and movement and news around the league. So let's touch on that quickly. I think first of all. Um, we've got to address a thing that we spent of course a bunch of time talking about ah last week and then almost immediately like within hours of our episode coming out or or within hours at least of us recording our episode a lot of information came out about this very thing we were speculating about so. Had been wondering what the deal with Michael Confordo is why haven't the cardinals gone for him or anyone really considering how strange it is and as we've learned he had a ah more notable shoulder injury than I think maybe we as fans were aware of. And he was having some real difficulty over the winter to really even showcase his ability to play baseball by all accounts he is recovered now. But I think you can imagine why a team would be skeptical to sign a guy who already has had up and down seasons and you really don't want to. Ah sign a guy who also has a Draft Pick compensation tied to him when you're not even sure he is healthy so he is healthy apparently now and has showcased to some teams who are showing interest but I don't think we're going to see him signed until the summer after the draft when that pick a piece of it drops off.
58:35.47
ben
Yeah, and you'd have to think that that's going to work out really well for him. You know all things considered him not getting a deal him being injured all that stuff. There's there's a very high probability that a team is going to find itself needing offense. He has a nice camper. Whatever year that's going or however, he's going to kind of get warmed up and. Should do well. But at least that makes more sense because it really seemed like Boris was just not doing anything for him. Yeah.
58:56.26
nate
Yeah, yeah, very strange to to situation. But we've got some clarity now. So speaking of injuries I mean yeah I think you cursed him Ben or just.
59:09.96
ben
Oh yeah.
59:13.48
nate
I'm beginning to think that citi field is haunted or you know I don't know but de gram and schz are both injured de gram considerably so sures are it's really being downplayed but he's definitely not going to make like an opening day start for the mets. All of a sudden.
59:23.71
ben
Rent.
59:32.84
nate
This 2 headed monster. You know the best rotation in baseball is suddenly pretty rough with ah taiwan walker also ah is possibly hurt so they are just already down to Chris Bassett
59:48.21
ben
Chris asset David Peterson Tyler Mcgill I mean these are the guys that are going to be frontlining. What should have been the first or second best rotation in baseball. Um, and we haven't even played game yet.
59:49.80
nate
There you know? yeah.
59:58.22
nate
Yeah, yeah, it's not great and it's It's really just disappointing. It's It's easy and fun and I think required to laugh at the mets. But as a as a fan of baseball broadly.
01:00:17.50
ben
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:17.63
nate
I Want to see de Grand pitch I Want to see schser pitch I Want to see two of the best guys ever. Ah, you know at peak capacity Even if they are on another team. So it's frustrating. It's disappointing. Yeah.
01:00:27.43
ben
And they're they're 2 very unique guys too. There isn't really anyone else out there like de gram or like sures are stuffwise attitude wise the whole the whole package. So yeah, baseball is better with those 2 gentlemen. But so yeah, big bummer. No fun.
01:00:38.39
nate
2 different color eyes.
01:00:46.17
nate
Yeah, hopefully at least schrzer it's It's a light hamstring issue. You could see that not being a a major problem if he can recover but de gra I mean it's just another in a string of of of issues that pulls.
01:00:47.35
ben
Hate it. Right.
01:01:03.62
nate
The best pitcher on the planet constantly out of out of the game. It's crazy. He'll still probably no I guess say he's still probably gonna make it to the hall of fame. But if he continues like this he he may end up missing out despite being you know one of the best Peaks of all time. Um.
01:01:04.77
ben
Red.
01:01:23.38
nate
We also saw speaking of pitchers getting injured former carnal great. Ah I'm a call him friend of the pod lance lin has ah injured his knee and is going to need knee surgery I think you know we're all pretty excited about the white sox. Pretty big blow to the start of the season. He's supposed to Miss 4 to six weeks but any sort of knee injury just feels like it can take a little while to come back from.
01:01:48.23
ben
Yeah, knee and it makes me think a cc sabaia. You know, big guy fireballer having knee issues definitely something you worry about um and you know it. It's really hard to tell how dependent is lance on. You know on just pure velocity. But that's kind of the first thing you think of going when when you're having lower body issues with the pitcher is the velocity's going to get down. That being said, he's a bit of a workhorse. You know he's come back from injuries in the past. So I hope that he could be successful but I love lance he is. 1 of my favorite post game interviewers and maybe has my favorite pitching style in all of baseball here's 75% fastballs good luck.
01:02:26.20
nate
Yeah, well in a lot of ways. He's like ah you know a less hall of Famy Max schurzer um the there is a couple some some last minute trades that happened over the ah over the last week.
01:02:31.60
ben
Sure.
01:02:45.20
nate
Um, the first one we want to talk about is the Oakland a's traded Sean Manea to the pondres. This was a a trade like everyone knew Manea was on the market and montes also likely on the market now. Manus is a better picture than manea but Manea is no slouch and some of the early buzz on this trade was that they really didn't pay that much so they traded Adrian Martinez and Ubl Angeles
01:03:23.23
nate
Ingles I'm not quite sure how to say either of those names. Um to thank you I think I nailed it to ah for manea and I think early reaction from cardinal fans was what the hell Mo we need a starter and this.
01:03:24.84
ben
I think I think you've nailed it.
01:03:41.46
nate
Doesn't seem to have been a very high price so I did a little bit of research to try to put this into perspective for cardinal fans and I want to hear your your take on it Ben now. No 2 organizations are are the same when you can't simply compare one. Ah. Um, farm team directly to another but to keep this simple I went and found on the http://mlb.com prospect rankings a very neutral prospect ranking site I try to find what would be the equivalent trade if we just took the the rankings of the people that. Padres traded to athletics. What would that be for the cardinals does that make sense. Okay, so in yeah, you know if if the price was exactly the same. It was like your tenth and eighteenth rank prospect. Basically so for the cardinals on http://mlv.com it was Ali Burlison
01:04:22.32
ben
Sure could the Cardinals have made this deal. Um, yeah.
01:04:40.20
nate
And Ryan Holgate so how would you have felt if the cardinals had traded berlison and holgate from minnea.
01:04:47.53
ben
It's like the biggest do of all time you're going and getting a guy that can give you you know, possibly 200 innings his number 1 pitch is a sinker. He's a lefty I mean he's kind of similar to Stephen Matts the guy we went out and got not to mention he's got good hair.
01:04:59.60
nate
Yeah.
01:05:02.82
ben
And good tattoos. So that's just added bonus right? There. So yeah I think you make that deal 100 deal 100 times out of a hundred I would even throw in a junior fernanddoz or something else to spice it up and and make sure that got done got done. But i. I think cardinals fans deserve they have every right to be angry at the fact that they did not go for this deal, especially finding out that that was the price that it costed. Um, yeah, mane is good. Sure.
01:05:25.89
nate
Yeah now note you know trades aren't done in a vacuum like that you know there's the relationship between Gm's individual scouting reports Manea struggled a little bit in the back half of 2021 he his his second half FIP was ah, over 4 barely like 4.09 or so I saw some concern about a reduction in velocity I remember that athletics are generally well known for making good trades so they also had to accept this trade so it does make you wonder is there something going on under the hood. That we are not aware of and this was their best offer. Um I don't know but it it certainly seems even like a less effective manea or a ah potentially injured maneo still would be worth this cost as much as we are excited about burlisson I agree but we'll never know.
01:06:20.28
ben
Yeah, yeah, and I'll I'll just say it again. The Cardinals need more pitching um doesn't even have to be that high quality but they need somebody who can pick up the ball every fifth day. Ah, they just need they need to augment the rotation it I'm.
01:06:20.41
nate
I Just ought to be interesting to put it in a little bit more context for what the cardinals would give up. Yeah.
01:06:37.51
ben
And going to keep saying that they need help there.
01:06:38.33
nate
Yeah, the other big trade is the white sox traded Craig Kimball to the dodgers for a J Pollock very interesting trade that.
01:06:50.48
ben
Yeah, yeah.
01:06:53.50
nate
Yeah, going into this offseason. It was pretty well known that are pretty well assumed that the white sox even though they're competing favorites to win their division by a mile. We're going to trade one of the best relievers of all time mostly because they have a pretty deep. Ah. Bullpen already Liam Hendrix they just signed gravemen. You know they had they had it to spare. Um, but I didn't really expect it to go to the dodgers let alone for Aj Pollock who's been a pretty good outfielder for quite a long time now. What was your take on this trademan.
01:07:29.16
ben
I thought it was a slam dung for both teams I think it makes sense for both teams. Obviously the white sox have some some injury issues and just some personnel issues as far as the outbu goes they have you know Andrew Vaughn who's not really an outfielder Gavin Sheets who's not really an outfielder. Um, and ilo jimmenez who can't really pick it so it makes a lot of sense for them to go out and get this guy. He hits lefties really well and he's had a great like season and a half against righties. Um, not to mention the money between these 2 players pretty much negates itself and like you said it you know gives the super team that is of the dodgers. They.
01:08:00.61
nate
Yeah.
01:08:06.39
ben
Gives them the luxury of putting Blake trine in who would be a closer for every single other team in baseball. Um, yeah, every other team because he is so good his I like watching him pitch. It seems like he's cheating because the way that his sinker moves does not make sense to my brain. Um.
01:08:12.77
nate
A.
01:08:25.68
ben
But yeah, you you get to slot that guy back a little bit I would say the only thing that I found curious about it is we know how the dodgers like to use their bullpen. They like to be dynamic and put guys in position succeed to to succeed wherever that might be and we know Craig Kimbrall is give me saves I want saves I only do the ninth inning only save situations I'm pretty sure he's going for like the hall of fame track there. He's just trying to get that number as high up as he wants but also like.
01:08:51.13
nate
Ripe.
01:08:54.81
ben
There are some things out. You know I don't know even really how to talk about this and sound somewhat intelligent but some pictures just thrive in those situations I think Kimberll's kind of like that we saw you know he got moved over to the white. He had a great first half with the cubs last year closing out games gets moved to the white sox and. Liam Hendrix is still closing and he kind of falters and we know there's huge variability that comes with clos. But as Nate said, he's one of the best of all time it's ah I'll be curious to see how they use him if it's strictly saved situations and and and what he looks like.
01:09:27.80
nate
I do believe they intend to have him as the closer after letting Kinley walk to the Braves. You know we bothcre they did not need to do this but they are a super team. So why not just you know trade one of your excess all-star level players for maybe the.
01:09:39.26
ben
Why not? so.
01:09:46.24
nate
Best 1 of the best clos of all time even though he might look kind of stupid every time he leans forward and hangs out his little his little arm little pirate. Yeah okay I hadn't and I will forever now.
01:09:46.37
ben
And and. This little little pirate Perch thingy. The the other thing like yeah I imagine like a little parrot sitting on there. That's what I was think of yeah or like a hawk or something but the the other funny thing about the or just the way in which the dodgers are put together. It's like.
01:10:04.66
nate
Sure.
01:10:09.75
ben
Oh do they go put their all-star Chris Taylor out there now. Do they go put their highly highly touted prospect Gavin Luxe out there or move things around and have Gavin Luxe playing second base you know like it it it only yeah they give away a all-star player not giveaway.
01:10:11.60
nate
Um, yeah.
01:10:21.20
nate
Stupid dodgers.
01:10:27.88
ben
But they trade away an all-star player and their position player talent maybe gets better somehow. Um, it's just the dodgers being the best franchise in baseball. The best ran. Yeah here we go.
01:10:37.79
nate
Yep, yeah boo I still can't beat Matt Adams though all right I it's a last thing on our list here then you wrote this and I'm glad you put this here because.
01:10:48.10
ben
Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah.
01:10:54.77
nate
Something was announced recently called home run derby x and I saw it get announced on Twitter and I thought that's strange. So I I clicked the link and the link was broken and led me to a dead page and I thought okay classic. Good job and then I promptly forgot all about it. You seem to know what home run derby x is so why don't you ah tell me.
01:11:13.27
ben
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm going to read off some http://mlb.com copy so I'm I'm just going to kind of get everybody on the same page and I'm curious to see your reaction. Um I will say I am. Excited I think that this is a very good idea and I think more things like this should happen and Mlb should be backing and financing and making it happen so then people just have to donate their leftover baseball players for this sport to happen. So yeah, Mlb.
01:11:31.75
nate
Um, okay, all right 1 in 10 balls explodes on impact.
01:11:46.30
nate
Yep yep.
01:11:48.14
ben
Home run derby x what a stupid name that is I will admit that it is a bad name. They could definitely come up with something better. It is a global baseball tour making stops in London salsa south seoul south Korea Mexico city and 1 other city that I forgot to write down. Apparently. Ah, but it is going to be represented by 4 different teams the oldest teams in baseball the la dodgers boston Red sox Chicago cubs and the yankees those teams are going to be represented by Adrian Gonzalez for the dodgers which has to be a punch in the stomach to Padres fans but that's the way it goes.
01:12:18.82
nate
Hit. Yeah.
01:12:22.78
ben
Johnny Gumps with Red Sox Giovanni Soto for the cubbies and nick twisher for the yankees and essentially what is going to happen is they're going to go to these different places and do a weird tournament style home run derby. So.
01:12:26.47
nate
Nice.
01:12:39.73
ben
Ah, the actual and I should read this quote because I do find it funny inspired by the success and simplicity of the home run derby the day before the Mlb all-star game which we all no one that happens. Why did they have to qualify that home run Derby X has been developed with the goal of attracting new audiences to baseball.
01:12:49.73
nate
Yeah.
01:12:57.00
ben
Creating high energy live event experiences and opportunities for digital storytelling. Wow that sounds really boring. But here's kind of the the quick overview of the rules hitters will get to swing at Twenty five pitches and take up to 10 of them with the opportunity to earn points by hitting targets placed one hundred and sixty feet away from home plate. And 2 beyond the outfield fences similar to the mini games in the legendary video game Mvp baseball 2005 shoutout best game ever opposition ah will have players in the outfield who can earn points by catching baseballs that don't make it over the fence and these things if you hit a home run.
01:13:21.78
nate
Yeah, Wow. Nice.
01:13:34.49
ben
They they kind of each home run you get more points if you do it in a row and each catch you get more points if you do that in a row as well. Each event will feature a winner and the tour will culminate in a knockout tournament to determine the home Run Derby X tour champions at the final event.
01:13:36.90
nate
Nice.
01:13:51.91
ben
So we know those guys that I listed earlier those are like the the big names quote unquote big names that are attached to the all-tars or whatever that are attached to the event teams can offer up minor league players. That's gonna all kind of filter. Its way out of who's going to be participating in it. But really it is a home run Derby tournament.
01:14:03.69
nate
The guy.
01:14:11.60
ben
Global thing that's happening and we're going to see some old mans cranking some juiced up balls over the fence I for one him really for this I would buy ticket if it was coming to Denver I think it's pretty cool.
01:14:18.90
nate
Yeah, yeah I like it any any sort of outreach program like this I think is great I do kind of question like you were already who that copy was for in that it had to explain that the home Run Derby is before the all-star game. But also references a video game from 2005 So I don't know who this is for um, but hey great I Love it. I'm I'm yeah why not right? Why not do more and more of this.
01:14:38.93
ben
The.
01:14:48.80
ben
And I could see if if home run derby x tour or whatever the hell it's called if that comes to your city and you have friends or a spouse or whoever who's not super into baseball I bet you could convince them to go to this because I have I imagine there's going to be. Ah, dja fireworks pyrotechnics and there's going to be a lot of swagger for the players. Um, if I remember anything about Adrian Gonzales ' playing career. He's going to bring a bunch of hell. He'll probably take a bit of a heel or kind of you know, be be poking people a little bit and have a lot of fun with that. So.
01:15:05.74
nate
Yeah.
01:15:17.38
nate
Ah.
01:15:22.75
ben
And think it's going to be fun I I think like you were kind of getting at I applaud the Mlb for trying something interesting and putting some cash behind it and kind of seeing what happens.
01:15:27.19
nate
Yeah, well been I'll tell you what the smell of fresh dinger in the air will be will be strong. Ah.
01:15:34.60
ben
Yeah I hate that because you know any time when you say that it's making me think of the rockies mascot whose name is dinger and now I'm just smelling a dinosaur.
01:15:46.48
nate
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's what the dinger smell is is just like old mascot helmet you know, ah just burn some of your socks.
01:15:57.15
ben
Yeah I do know Thank you? Yeah, ah.
01:16:03.68
nate
That's that's our that's our candle if you love our show, Shove some socks into a cup and light them on fire. That's the talking about birds candle now available on our store. Ah, ah.
01:16:08.66
ben
Um, that ah in your drawers.
01:16:22.60
nate
All right? Well let's ah, let's go ahead and wrap this up and move into our final segment of the day. Ah, this week we are doing a slightly different style of game instead of me just challenging Ben with stupid random things. We're go to play a little game together something we're calling draft a heroes and hatchlings edition. This is how this's gonna work Ben and I are going to draft from the cardinals roster the 20 8 man and then anyone after it so sort of 2 different groups of players that we can pull from we're going to draft 6 total players 6 ah each and 3 of them have to be from the 28 man 3 of them have to be from. Not the 28 man I'm going to flip a coin here. We'll see who goes first and we're going to go back and forth and at the end of the year whichever group of 6 has the most fan graphs war will be the winner. We'll also look at you know overall and then we'll look at who had the best. Ah, 28 man Draft and who had the best non 28 man draft does that make sense.
01:17:43.60
ben
Makes sense to me. Yeah, and the only other thing I want to throw out there is like let's say I pick um tommy edmon and somehow Tommy edmon puts up a negative war this year that subtracts from my total. It'll however that plays out so if we pick a rookie. It's more likely to be a rookie or a guy not on the.
01:17:55.76
nate
Yes.
01:18:03.15
ben
Big League groster. Um, or let's say polante and Polante gets blown up. You get all that negative war.
01:18:08.28
nate
Um, yep I'm so I've got a I I've got a screen here an lot.
01:18:17.70
ben
It's is flipping a coin on a computer ladies gentlemen.
01:18:21.60
nate
Um I don't have any money all right Ben Heads or tails.
01:18:29.71
ben
Yep I'll go heads most exciting thing in podcasting and Ben Wins ben wins I like I do appreciate that it actually made the coin flipping noise that was good.
01:18:35.35
nate
Oh he damn I do do I hadn't ah had't done it until until that moment. So I didn't even tell we did alive all right Ben You have the first overall pick.
01:18:46.53
ben
You didn't even test it. Wow.
01:18:54.76
nate
Ah, who you got.
01:18:55.80
ben
I mean this has got to be pretty easy, especially when I'm looking over this roster I'm gonna have to go with my boy big paul is coming out hot possible inv b candidate this year give me Paul goldsmidt.
01:19:07.90
nate
Yeah I think there was 2 obvious choices for least the highest floor here. Um, and you're going with Paul I think I probably would have done that as well with the first overall pick. So I'll just go quick here. My second pick.
01:19:13.99
ben
Yeah, yeah.
01:19:27.38
nate
You know he's got that hot corner Nolan Aonnato I think ah he's amped up he thinks ah the the offensive production he had last year while great was not good enough and we know he's got that high floor with ah the defense at third base so I gotta go with Nolan Aonnato
01:19:27.71
ben
Wow.
01:19:42.96
ben
yeah yeah I think that's smart I was going to say him as well. But now I get to go with fur boys Big Daddy Tyler Tyler O'neill gimme him. Ah.
01:19:46.46
nate
Ah, for the for my first pick.
01:20:02.42
ben
I mean this guy is going to put up. He might go thirty thirty this year who knows what he's going to do. He also might strike out 200 times but he is going to go off. Yeah.
01:20:04.60
nate
Um, well he yeah well I think you know we're we're clearly baking in some of the risk here because last year Tyler O'neill led the carnals in Fangraph's war um
01:20:18.60
ben
Right? right.
01:20:21.37
nate
By ah by a half a war so he put up 5.4 and then after him was Paul Goldsman at 4.9 and so we both went with. We went with number 2 and number 3 where aonato had 4.0 you know for the season we.
01:20:34.74
ben
Yeah, that that.
01:20:37.63
nate
We took both of them over O'neill I think because of that risk.
01:20:39.43
ben
That decade of production but behind behind those other 2 players definitely makes me feel a lot more confident. But yeah, we'll we'll see I'll still bet on Tyler.
01:20:45.94
nate
Yeah I was really hoping for that. Ah, first overall pick in order to pair you know, get the because I figured this is probably how this was gonna go I almost took ah for dubois ah tie tie a number 2 but you know I'll take the safe one with aonautto. So.
01:21:01.87
ben
That.
01:21:04.81
nate
Ah, with my next pick this is where it actually starts to get interesting right? because now we're really starting to ah to call who's who's that breakout who's taking the next step up and I got to go with our previous bold prediction.
01:21:14.72
ben
Ram.
01:21:23.13
ben
Oh yeah, that's that's the move. That's the move I Thought you're going to go somewhere else. But that's that's the move. That's what I would have done. Yeah.
01:21:23.62
nate
I got to go dill Carl here Dylan Carlson come on down. Yeah ah I almost I'm not going to say but I've got to go Dylan Carlson for all the reason we talked about earlier in the episode.
01:21:37.15
ben
yeah yeah I think you know part of me really wants to take a picture here but I'm going to go back and I'm I'm going to kind of lean on what I believe is going to happen I think that Bater's got a contractor under him. He's going to be healthy. He's going to put up big numbers. Ah war numbers with the defense alone.
01:21:49.54
nate
Yeah.
01:21:57.60
ben
So give me Harrison Badder is my final pick for the the big cardinals the heroes the heroes and hatchlings that my last hero is is Harry Bader
01:22:06.22
nate
Um, yeah, okay, um, that's so that's who I almost took instead of Carlson but um, because that that floor there with with Bader. You've got that defense I like it. Okay. For the last of my heroes.
01:22:29.55
nate
This is tough. This is tough.
01:22:30.47
ben
Well I'm going to kind of think out loud for you I'm guessing your thing I mean Giovana Gallegos makes some sense wano makes some sense miles makes some sense. There's ah obviously de young if you're buying the the comeback.
01:22:37.64
nate
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, um, I've been going between wayno and de young and I think I'm going to go with ah wayno put up almost four last year three point nine I'm not expecting him to replicate that. Ah, in fact, we both just picked other pictures to have the best season. But for this game I'm taking the safer bet and I am going to go with Adam Waynewright for my for my last pick. Um I think Gallegos is gonna have a great season but I can't gamble on any 1 reliever like that.
01:23:09.65
ben
Wow wow.
01:23:19.60
ben
Yeah, oh.
01:23:22.46
nate
Not with these stakes on the line all right? So we've both completed our our our heroes section pulling from the 28 man you've got Paul Goldsmit Tyler O'neill and Harrison Bader great 3 I've got Nolan aonnado Dylan Carlson and Adam Wainwright ah yeah now. Um for the miners who we got.
01:23:43.14
ben
Brave.
01:23:49.10
ben
The hatchlings.
01:23:56.85
ben
Oh sorry I didn't realize you asked me ah all right? Ah for the miners and I'm going to take this guy purely because I think he's going to come up very quickly and I think he's going to produce.
01:24:06.44
nate
Let's get.
01:24:14.38
ben
Enough to be relevant give me Brendan Donovan and that is purely. He's going to come up and you know war's accounting stat. He's going to come up and accumulate right away I think.
01:24:16.16
nate
Um, wow you're going straight to Brendan Donovan all right
01:24:25.12
nate
Right? okay okay I well then I am going to take I'm going to go with Nolan Gorman I think we we both already talked about why he's coming up I hope we both think he'll be a.
01:24:36.45
ben
Yeah, that's smart.
01:24:44.79
nate
Sooner rather than later and I think playing second base will see some good defense but he's gonna he's gonna hit the ball and ah win me this game all right? Your ah your your next pick.
01:24:54.49
ben
Well, that's definitely who I wanted to take um so I'm obviously you know not happy about that. But I guess I'll survive. Think I'm going to have to go with somebody who again who I expect to be up again I think he's going to lock in his control issues. Everything's going to be happy. Give me Johan oviido.
01:25:13.74
nate
Nice. Okay, yeah I thought about him. Um, yeah, we both are big fans of him I think he is going to be a big part of the cardinals for a long time I'm not as sold on as this year though
01:25:24.64
ben
He Also he also could be somebody who subtracts quite a bit of war from my into your total So we'll we'll see how that goes Yes, they are.
01:25:33.19
nate
That pitch is risky I well I'm just going to keep going real quick I'm going wa pez between him and Gorman one of those 2 I'm getting I'm getting some good quality production from all right.
01:25:40.10
ben
Yeah, yeah, yeah I Hate to say it. But that's probably smart So good job date't.
01:25:52.97
nate
What's your last pick.
01:25:54.40
ben
Oh this one is tough. My last pick is going to have to be oh no I don't know not spgenberg. Ah man I ah.
01:26:04.31
nate
This that was worried you were gonna date my pick.
01:26:13.17
ben
I want to take another bat I think I'm Goingnna buy because just you know I'm I've been leaning into the alec burlson breakout all all spring training I'm going to say alec. He's goingnna get some big league at bats and he's going to impress.
01:26:25.31
nate
Yeah I love ol burson as well. Okay I'm with my last pick I'm gonna go with I think this guy's getting called up. We're gonna need him. We've talked about why we're gonna need him.
01:26:39.72
ben
Bump. Um, bomb.
01:26:45.26
nate
I think he's ready Matthew Liberator come on down, you are my last pick either the bull pin spot starts by the end of the season I think he's going to accumulate some and really help put my team over the over the edge and crush.
01:26:49.10
ben
Wow.
01:27:04.50
nate
Ah, Ben's team of players that I love but am now forced to hate.
01:27:06.38
ben
Well you you lost the draft in the first half. So I'm not even really worried about it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you lost? wow.
01:27:11.58
nate
Wow by picking like your favorite players Nolan aonato Adam Wayne right and Dylan Garson yeah okay um I hope we both win. Wow.
01:27:26.30
ben
Wouldn't that be great.
01:27:27.87
nate
So we'll check in on this time by time throughout the year and I guess we hope that they all do well. But personally I hope that mine do slightly better than yours.
01:27:37.90
ben
Yeah, I'm definitely not going to be obnoxious when one of those 3 kids comes up and does well I definitely won't bring that up on the podcast and I won't be ah annoying about it I swear.
01:27:40.96
nate
Um, yeah. If you have thoughts about how you would have drafted differently than how we just did tweet us at talk about birds. We'd love to hear your hot takes and your your hot pics for the ah for the 2022 season. Ah yeah, hashtag heroes and hatchlings there we go.
01:27:58.11
ben
Yeah hashtag heroes and hatchlings Hashtag are here. Yeah there you go? yeah.
01:28:05.46
nate
And with that that will be the end of this episode again. We did it. We're here happy opening day I can't believe it's finally here. Um I guess until next week go cardinals.
01:28:20.81
ben
Um, let's go okay I have to jump off right away all right good episode Tt while.
01:28:24.29
nate
All right? Yeah yeah I by e.