Building Momentum in Marriage: The Flywheel Effect

In this episode of Art of Spousing, James and Lisa give listeners a behind-the-scenes look at their creative process as they develop a new framework for marriage growth: The Flywheel of Momentum. They share five key priorities that, when practiced intentionally, create synergy and depth in a marriage. From foundational communication to fostering growth, this episode is packed with practical insights, engaging stories, and actionable tools to help your marriage thrive.

Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Marriage Reboot
- The Collective
- The Weekly Practise Newsletter
- The Five Gears
- The Communication Code by Jeremie Kubicek
- Stay tuned for updates on the Art of Spousing Marriage Retreat, coming Fall 2025!

Related Episodes:

• Unlocking the Secret Sauce of Lasting Marriages with 3 Key Ingredients
• Six Practises For Avoiding Complacency in Your Marriage
• The Marriage Reboot: Reset, Rebuild & Find Common Ground With Greg and Julie Gorman

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Thank you for listening! We hope this conversation encourages you to embrace life’s seasons with grace and intentionality in your marriage. We’ll see you next time on the Art of Spousing podcast!

What is Art of Spousing?

Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.

James: 00:00

So today's episode's gonna be a little different. We're gonna experiment and try something different. A lot of times, we'll prepare content and then teach it, but, actually, Lisa, we've been working on some new content. And so instead of just throwing it out there, we thought we'd kinda bring you along on our journey of discussing it.

Lisa: 00:14

Right. It's kind of like a behind the scenes of content preparation, and it might get spicy because I may go, I don't dis I disagree with that, James.

James: 00:22

Right.

Lisa: 00:22

So just so you know, if we do that, we still love each other. Right?

James: 00:25

That's right. So for several years now, I've been working with a organization called Giant, and they do a lot of leadership and personal development tools. In the last several months, I've been looking at how to take some of those concepts and actually apply them to marriage because I think they're they overlap fairly well. So one of the tools that Giant uses is a tool called Driving Team Performance. Mhmm.

James: 00:47

And so it's basically a flywheel. And, basically, a flywheel is intentional actions that you build upon each other and eventually it starts kind of creating this lasting momentum. And so so I've kind of taken that flywheel developing team performance, and we've superimposed it to what that would look like in marriage. And so this whole episode is about actually how to build momentum in marriage.

Lisa: 01:11

Right. I love it. A flywheel, I I I just imagine it's when you're talking about building momentum, it's like when you start getting skills and they're in your tool belt. But some of those become so easy for us, like Right. Intent and impact.

Lisa: 01:22

That's so easy for us. But when we start building all of those things on, it builds us momentum and this richness in our relationship. And that's what I think of when I think of a flywheel.

James: 01:38

I think it's a good thought.

Lisa: 01:39

Yeah.

James: 01:41

Hello, and welcome to the art of the spouse podcast. We're James and Lisa, and we're excited you're here with us.

Lisa: 01:47

If you're just tuning in, our goal is simple, to help turn your marriage into the masterpiece it was meant to be. We know that strong marriages don't just happen by accident. They take work, intentionality, and a whole lot of grace.

James: 02:00

So each week, we bring encouragement, practical tools, and a little bit of fun to help your relationship grow and thrive. Let's dive into today's conversation. So like we said, we're building out this content and this idea is based around really 5 priorities that if we can begin to build out these priorities in our marriage and actually practice them, then it can begin to create this flywheel of momentum. So, Lisa, I thought what we could do is I would read the thesis statement, if you will, for each one of the priorities and then we can kinda discuss some things, unpack some ideas below that.

Lisa: 02:34

Love it.

James: 02:34

Okay. So the first priority to actually create momentum in your marriage is communication. We would say in our marriage, we prioritize open and intentional communication that deepens our connection and builds trust. And each conversation becomes an opportunity to grow closer and strengthen our bond. And I think it's a pretty decent statement about communication.

James: 02:53

Right?

Lisa: 02:53

Yeah. I love it. I think communication is a priority in marriage. I mean, it crosses every single aspect of our married life, our parenting, our finances, our house, our dealing with our families, our marriage intimacy, everything, every single thing. Communication is foundational.

James: 03:08

That's right.

Lisa: 03:08

And it does have the potential to deepen our connection Mhmm. Or cause disconnection.

James: 03:14

Right.

Lisa: 03:14

Or it has the opportunity to build trust or breed distrust. Right. So it's actually it's critical.

James: 03:21

So, really, this this priority is really foundational for all the other priorities we're gonna talk about in this episode.

Lisa: 03:27

Exactly.

James: 03:27

Okay. So let's unpack that a little bit. Like, what are some things that come to mind when we think about communication?

Lisa: 03:34

The first I think about is creating a safe space. We talk about this a lot in different ways in an artist's balsam podcast, but I think that you create a safe space for me. I have a lot of emotions and words for my emotions, a lot of feels and a lot of words for my feels, and that's not really something that you that doesn't mean you don't feel and that you don't have those type of words

James: 03:54

Right.

Lisa: 03:54

And all the drama that goes with it and aren't you glad I'm saying all this and you're not having to say it, but you actually hold space for me to do that. Mhmm. You hold space even though that may not be how you process emotion, you hold space for that. And one of the things somehow miraculously from our very first young 21 years of age, you've always honored that space for me. Now you've grown in that and being able to how to help communicate around that, but that has built trust and deepened communication.

Lisa: 04:23

I never leave those moments feeling stupid or, like, overdramatic, but you've created the space for me in that. So creating a safe place to me is actually there's an art to that Yeah. And there's a science to that. There's so much more to unpack. What do you think?

James: 04:38

Yeah. When I think about that safe space, obviously, you know, emotional intimacy requires emotional safety. It's not just the words we say, but it's also, like, the tone, facial expression, body language that actually creates that space that what I'm saying or what you're saying is actually

Lisa: 04:57

important to one another.

James: 04:57

You know, if I'm completely checked out or on my phone while you're trying to talk to me, that doesn't really communicate that it's important or that I value what you're saying or that I hear what you're saying. And so I think if we're not careful in communication, we can be so distracted intimacy. That really is foundational for all intimacy. Right? If there's not emotional safety, then it's gonna be hard to grow in intimacy in other areas.

James: 05:23

So I think it's a great place to to unpack that is that communication. It is creating that safe space for one another.

Lisa: 05:30

Yeah. It just came to my mind. Number 1, if you are or if I am violating something, like, with the phone or distracted with something else, we have given each other permission without feeling defensive to say, hey. I need your eyes. Mhmm.

Lisa: 05:43

They usually go, hey, James. I need your eyes. Or do you need a minute to finish what you're doing? Right. Because that's me saying, I I need you, but I'm not or you're not listening to me.

James: 05:50

Right.

Lisa: 05:51

Okay. Just be on your phone then.

James: 05:52

Right.

Lisa: 05:53

That That does not create a safe space. I'm declaring what I need. I said, whenever you have a chance, I need your eyes.

James: 05:57

Right.

Lisa: 05:57

But the other thing is is that as a person who expresses a lot of feels, this could be male or female. This is not gender specific. But if I know that I'm going on and be laboring a little bit longer and I can see that you're possibly starting to check out, I actually begin to edit and go, the big idea of what I'm feeling here is.

James: 06:15

Right.

Lisa: 06:15

And so I don't make you stay the journey for all my lamenting for a long time and then get mad at you because you couldn't hang with me because that would be like, you, this is a great illustration taking me out on a bike and making me go 20 miles an hour.

James: 06:28

I'm not

Lisa: 06:29

gonna hang with you, you know, so I don't expect that of you much. So I try if I start seeing your body language shift, I actually make a shift and start editing. The big idea is I just wanted you to know that, James.

James: 06:39

Yeah.

Lisa: 06:40

Yeah. So I'm building helping build the safety that I want from you by actually editing myself and or asking what I need from you.

James: 06:47

Yeah. You know, another thing that comes to mind when we think about this priority communication is when we actually communicate well, it actually allows us to handle conflict respectfully. The root of all conflict is on the expectations and poor communication. Right? Right.

James: 06:59

And so, you know, if I

Lisa: 07:02

in a moment

James: 07:02

that you're trying to share to me something and I'm disconnected, that's gonna cause tension in that situation. Or if I say something, I react a certain way, it's going to cause conflict. And so using communication and really prioritizing healthy communication will allow us to actually address issues properly and promptly with love and respect.

Lisa: 07:23

That's right. In the moment when tension and conflict comes, it really does require a lot of holy spirit Mhmm. Fruit of spirit in your life because you really, honestly, in our nature, in our flesh, we wanna go, you know what? You're an idiot. You're not a lot joy right now.

Lisa: 07:38

And, unfortunately, I have navigated with many couples, you and I both, that in those moments of tension actually attack the character or take a personal spot of going, you're just full of joy now, aren't you? Yeah. That's not handling conflict

James: 07:52

Right.

Lisa: 07:52

Respectfully. And so it's really trying to learn to have restraint and get some skills and Right. There's so much here. We could probably do a podcast just on conflict resolution for seasons. Yeah.

James: 08:05

That's true. Yep. You know, it's funny. I I think just recently, I heard somebody talking about not sure who it was, but about the fruit of the spirit. You just mentioned that we love celebrating love, joy, peace

Lisa: 08:15

Long suffering.

James: 08:16

But the last one is self control. The one of the last ones on the list that we don't really celebrate. Self control. But, actually, in communication, when we're gonna deal with conflict, and we have to control what we say, how we say it, when we say it, the timing so that we're dealing with conflict respectfully.

Lisa: 08:33

That's right. I love that.

James: 08:34

Yep. Okay. The third thing I was thinking about, actually, leveraging tools for effective communication. And there's several that come to mind. One that, actually, we talk a lot about in our reboots.

James: 08:45

We talk about checkpoints. Mhmm. Things that we can put into our communication or into our relationship that would change the tone. And so when you couple moments ago mentioned that I need your eyes, that's a checkpoint for me to go, oh, okay. I need to dial in to what you're saying instead of you saying, you never pay attention to me.

James: 09:03

You're just like, hey. I need your eyes, and that's a checkpoint.

Lisa: 09:05

Right.

James: 09:05

So that's that's one tool. Another tool that we use is the 5 gears.

Lisa: 09:09

Mhmm.

James: 09:10

Right? And we've used we've done podcasts on that. That's a really effective tool. Right?

Lisa: 09:14

So I love 5 years because, you know, my natural gear is 23, like, being with someone 1 on 1 and connecting with them and being really social and fun loving, and I love that. Yours are 45. You like to head down, get work done, and so we're actually mindful to know, like, if I if I want effective communication with you, I'm going to actually enter in that space when I know that you're ready to listen. So nothing would be worse than me wanting to be in year 2, be, like, connected with you and you're in 5 and I'm trying to I'm trying to get you to listen to me and you don't. And then I get mad at you because you don't.

Lisa: 09:52

Yeah. Well, I actually probably should have been more sensitive too. And even when I've said, hey, I need your eyes, literally, you may say, hey, I need a minute to finish what I'm doing. Yeah. Maybe you are in gear 5.

James: 10:02

That's right.

Lisa: 10:03

And so I'm like, I don't punish you because you had to finish the text message or the email or the process that you were in. 5 gears yet is a very effective tool. Maybe we could include that in the show notes for someone to get back on us and

James: 10:15

that That'd be a good one. A new friend of mine, Jeremy Kupchak, wrote a book called The Communication Code. And in that book, he lays out these 5 C's of communication. 1 is care. Don't try to solve me.

James: 10:25

Right? We always say, are you wanting me to feel this or fix this? Right? And sometimes just to be present and to listen. The second C that he talks about is to celebrate, to enjoy the moments, recognize what's going on.

James: 10:37

And if something big happens, celebrate those those moments. The 3rd C talks about is collaborate, build on communication together, come to the best outcomes if if we're trying to solve a problem. I love what Stephen Covey talks about looking for a win win.

Lisa: 10:50

Mhmm.

James: 10:50

Right? The 4th is critique. So sometimes in communication, you have to ask difficult questions. And as a guardian voice who's, you know

Lisa: 10:58

An interrogator?

James: 10:59

Interrogator. Sometimes I I ask a lot of questions. Sometimes, you know, we we wanna not hold each other accountable. And sometimes we have to ask difficult questions in communication. And then the last thing he talks about is to clarify the basically have patients while each other explaining, trying to pull out of each other information.

James: 11:16

So just another great tool, of how they do communication. So okay. So that's the first priority. A lot there that we're gonna continue to work on and unpack, but hopefully some things that you can take even now to begin to build some momentum in your marriage. The second priority, we're calling that partnership.

James: 11:32

Here's kind of our thesis statement that in our marriage, we build our partnership on the foundation of trust. We believe the best in each other and choose to see each other's hearts and intentions with grace. And trust is our commitment to honesty, faithfulness, and honoring each other in words and actions. Yeah.

Lisa: 11:49

I think that it's so important and with the honesty and honoring are in the same sentences because you can be honest Mhmm. And be honoring. It doesn't have to be mean spirited. Of course, I always think in the negative. So it's like, what does not a honoring look like when we're honest?

Lisa: 12:04

And that's being mean spirited or attacking character. You always act like this and here we here you go again. Maybe it is a here you go again, but that's and the way we say it is is it an honoring way and that we're actually building trust that we can come and solve problems together and solve dynamics together. We recently had we always have some good conversations about tweaking our communication. Just a couple of weeks ago, we did, and I thought it was honoring.

Lisa: 12:29

Mhmm. I was believing the best in you and I tried to come with what my ownership in that and what can we do better to move forward the next time that comes around. And I thought you had a great collaboration around it. Mhmm. There was a little bit of critique in there.

Lisa: 12:40

Right. But I was believing the best in you and you were believing the best in me, but I think we cracked the code again. This is really where we come down to a lot of our attention is is in communication, honestly. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa: 12:50

But, nonetheless, we want our words to be that we're partnering together.

James: 12:54

Right.

Lisa: 12:54

We believe the best in one another.

James: 12:56

Yeah.

Lisa: 12:57

I love that idea.

James: 12:57

We're in this together, and one of our mottos is I'm for you, you're for me. We're in this together. Right?

Lisa: 13:03

Yeah. I go, I love us. Yes.

James: 13:04

I love us.

Lisa: 13:04

Right. About us. I love us. I'm for us.

James: 13:07

Right. Yeah. And sometimes if we're not careful in marriage, it can be my way and your way, and we're kinda isolated and kinda doing our own thing. But, really, to have a marriage with a lot of momentum, we have to be in it together. And, you know, one of our favorite statements is a better me is a better we.

James: 13:24

So as we're unpacking this, one of the things we wrote down here is that we need to support each other's growth. That it's not just about me getting better, but I want to come alongside you and help you continue to grow, to have a growth mindset, to continue to develop yourself.

Lisa: 13:37

Yeah. Just just this week, I said to you, I had an epiphany about my Enneagram 2 self.

James: 13:42

Mhmm.

Lisa: 13:43

And it was a very vulnerable, like, moment to share, like, this and actually a little bit embarrassing. It's the shadow side of the helper and and it's not cute, you know, and I've I'm realizing there's some areas in my, how I operate, behave, communicate, and lead is in those low side of my 2 ness. But, anyway, I shared that with you and you were like, oh, I get that. I understand that. So you're celebrating my awareness and you're doing it in an honoring way and then I'm like, I really don't know how I'm gonna crack the code on this, but these are a couple of things.

Lisa: 14:07

I'm gonna try not to repeat things that make me feel insecure. Right. So if I'm talking to you, James, and I'm about to tell you a story, I may say, I'm editing, and that way, you know, don't ask me about that because I'm about to rehearse something that doesn't serve me well. And then that way, you're partnering with me for me to be a better me, but I'm coming to you with the things I'm learning and growing in my really deep work. Mhmm.

Lisa: 14:33

Like, what's going on in my mind, heart, and spirit? I love that we sell, and you do the same with me. You're you're learning things, and we champion in each other.

James: 14:40

Right. Yeah. It it really is fighting for the highest good for each other. It's that liberating mindset. And I think this is really important too when you think about we've worked with a lot of young leaders in marriage and little different from when we were growing up in marriage when we were younger is I was the primary worker.

James: 14:57

I, you know, used

Lisa: 14:57

In

James: 14:58

early staying home with the kids, and it's all built around my career. But now there's a lot more 2 careers, 2 visions, 2 callings under one house. And so it it can be more difficult championing one another's calling, in, championing one another's drive and what they're doing. But when you always go, hey. We're gonna fight for the highest good with each other, and that takes compromise.

James: 15:18

It takes collaboration. But, again, going back to this whole idea that we're gonna build a foundation of partnership on trust.

Lisa: 15:24

If you've noticed even in this whole thing that we've talked about partnership, we've talked about a lot about language with each other. Mhmm. This is why communication is foundational.

James: 15:31

You can't have a great partnership if you don't have a foundation of communication.

Lisa: 15:34

That's right. So when you heard me talk about that, I just thought, you know what? I better let him know. I know where we are, brother. But the deal is I know we're on partnership, but every single one of these, like we're gonna mention, each of these priorities uses language.

James: 15:46

Yeah. And I think in that partnership is a desire to know one another

Lisa: 15:50

Mhmm.

James: 15:50

And to value one another. It's not just about me knowing myself, but I I really need to be focused on understanding who you are, how you're wired, your calling, your gifting, your abilities and your dreams, your ambitions. Right? Knowing those things and also valuing those things and champion those things. I'm for you and me knowing that you're for me really helps us to be able to face any challenge or any obstacle comes our way.

Lisa: 16:13

You know, I love that there's lots of tools right here that we could talk about. The love languages is one of them. Obviously, mean understanding your Enneagram and different things like that help me know some of the things that encourage you and some of the things that don't encourage you maybe. But the love languages, I, you know, I remember different seasons in my life where you started applying this Mhmm. And showing love for me.

Lisa: 16:33

Mine is acts of service. I am a girl of high order. You may not be actually a guy of high order. Mhmm. However, I will just celebrate you in this moment.

Lisa: 16:42

Your closet, the side of your closet always looks better than mine.

James: 16:45

It does look better than yours.

Lisa: 16:46

It does. And you're at my side of the sink and your side of the sink in the bathroom, yours always looks tidier than mine. So with that said, I do like order and I remember when when the kids were younger and I would be maybe at an event and I would come home, I had actually expressed, sometimes I don't like walking into a mess. Mhmm. And not angrily, but I just mentioned that.

Lisa: 17:04

And so you picked up on that because you wanna know me, you want to value me and how you can affirm me. And so I would come in and everything would be like the kitchen would be cleaned up.

James: 17:15

Right.

Lisa: 17:15

And I was like, he thought of me. This is acts of service, something that doesn't matter to you if the kitchen's messy or not.

James: 17:20

Right.

Lisa: 17:21

I think you've learned to value it in a different way, but I would come in. And I just wanna mention, any good housekeeper would know is, like, if I see the kitchen cabinet and I can see, like, crumbs across the kitchen cabinet, I would see them. And you know what I would do? I wouldn't care because you made such effort and that the dishes were put away. But did you wipe the counter down the way I would?

Lisa: 17:38

No. No. But, again, trip up of 1 or the other spouse that wants to point out what didn't happen.

James: 17:44

Right.

Lisa: 17:45

But what I said is I see what did happen. All the dishes are put away. There's a candle burning on the sink. You know, it's just it's a moment to actually celebrate that you

James: 17:54

Mary White's playing in the background.

Lisa: 17:55

Well, I don't know. Well, that if that was happening, mister, then that's a tool of manipulation. You claimed the kitchen for

James: 18:02

When you say candles, like, okay. Yeah. She's setting the mood here. So

Lisa: 18:06

But I just think it's it's cool to see and celebrate when your spouse spouse is actually trying to love on you in your love language. And it's a you know, if you don't get the right gift for her, he's trying. Yep. If he doesn't clean the kitchen up, just start right. It's good.

Lisa: 18:22

If she doesn't give you the right words of affirmation that don't feel forced, then it's okay. She's trying. Like, it's like, have grace for one another.

James: 18:29

We're in this together. It's a partnership. Right? And we we all have flaws. We all have things that we have to work on, but we're in it together.

James: 18:36

Right?

Lisa: 18:36

That's right.

James: 18:37

So we talked about communication, which is foundational to the flywheel. We talked about partnership. The third priority that is what we're calling purpose. Right? And this is so important to a marriage relationship.

James: 18:48

Here's the statement that we're building this around is, in our marriage, we are united by a shared purpose, vision, and values. And together, we share a clear sense of what we want our lives and family to look like, and it's guided by values that reflect our faith, our dreams, and goals as a couple.

Lisa: 19:04

Love it. Yeah. Actually, we both have a individual purpose in which we defined long ago. Right. But we really never did define our purpose together as a married couple.

Lisa: 19:13

And I'm sure we were living into it as we look back. But once we defined it, wrote it down Mhmm. Talk about a flywheel. You start getting in a groove and feeling really confident in your relationship and what you're doing, how you operate with your kids, how we operate with one another, how we represent ourselves in other people, things we say yes and no to. This is just such a rich, and I'm wondering why we never defined it earlier.

Lisa: 19:36

Yeah. I wish we would have.

James: 19:37

Well, nobody ever really talked to us about it. And I think that's a real issue for marriages because sometimes we look at other relationships and we look at other people and we're like, oh, they have such a great relationship, or why can't our relationship be more like that, or why don't we act more like that, or we look at people's, like, public persona of their relationship and don't realize that behind the scenes, there's there's a lot going on. There's there's values that they hold dear. There's communication, the way they the way they communicate. There's dreams that they have.

James: 20:07

One of the things that we do when we do, like, marriage reboots is this is a big point Mhmm. That we work on as a purpose because you and I are both individuals. Ephesians 2 talks about us being a unique masterpiece designed by God. So we each have talents, abilities, and so forth that we individually have, and then we bring that together.

Lisa: 20:23

That complement each other.

James: 20:24

That that complement. It go to our spouse and your palette and my palette come, and it creates a new palette that is our marriage. And so our marriage is gonna be completely different than our good friends, Dave and Bethany or Greg and Julie because their purpose is unique to them, and our purpose is unique to us. But when we can begin to live into that purpose, it actually allows us to build momentum around why God has uniquely put us together. Right?

Lisa: 20:48

Right. You know, one of the things that I love, especially if someone's listening in your marriage, you're struggling with how you talk to one another or behaviors you have or patterns and habits that you have that are just really irritating one another and poking around and causing a lot of division and tension. I feel like this shared purpose and vision and our values, knowing that what our values are together, and even knowing our individual values that some of our values, I step on yours and you step on mine and it causes some ruckus, you know. But I love the idea that when we understand that, we start living into that purpose, into that vision, into those values, and understanding one another's personal values. A lot of that other noise and rhetoric and language and behavior starts to dissolve because we both agree we wanna live on purpose.

Lisa: 21:36

Mhmm. And we want our marriage to be serve a purpose.

James: 21:39

Right.

Lisa: 21:39

And as believers, we know the purpose of our marriage to glorify God. So is our behavior, what we're choosing to do, how we're choosing to talk, how we're choosing to live out? Is it actually bringing glorify to God and serving our purpose? And then we go, well, that whole last 10 minutes of conversation we had that was a fight actually did none of that.

James: 21:56

Right.

Lisa: 21:56

So we gotta change it. I think it helps start putting guardrails and checkpoints in your life

James: 22:00

to stop living. To, like, what we're gonna say yes to, what we're gonna say no to.

Lisa: 22:04

What we're gonna stop doing.

James: 22:05

And we're gonna

Lisa: 22:05

stop doing. Part of it.

James: 22:06

Right.

Lisa: 22:07

Part of our life.

James: 22:07

Yeah. And if we don't pay attention to that, then we can say yes to everything, and then we just run around like a hamster on the wheel. Right?

Lisa: 22:14

Yeah. Or like I say in the in the south when I saw my grandpa cut a chicken's head off, it just runs around without its head on. You know what? It's a visual for someone. Visual

James: 22:23

for someone right now.

Lisa: 22:24

So that's where you get where you run around with the chicken with his head cut off. That's where it comes from, and I've seen it. Have you seen it, James?

James: 22:30

No. But you've talked about enough that I got the image.

Lisa: 22:33

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's what it is.

James: 22:34

Part of this too with purpose is understanding and embracing our unique roles in the relationship. Again, talk about communication as partnership. Well, in the partnership, there's gonna be a unique roles and purposes that we play, and it's gonna be different for each couple. So understanding where we are in a relationship and it's changed for us over the years. Right?

James: 22:51

Early on when the kids were younger, you stayed at home and you took care of the home, took care of the kids, and that was a unique role in that season. And we celebrated that and honored that. But now it's a little bit different. Now the kids are gone. We're empty nesters, and and you have a really important leadership role that takes a lot of time.

James: 23:08

And so I know that my role now in the home is to do a little bit more of the stuff around the house because it helps you out in your role. Right?

Lisa: 23:15

That's right.

James: 23:16

And so I think embracing those roles, and they're not always gender specific.

Lisa: 23:19

That's right.

James: 23:20

You know? So we need to know what to talk about and discuss and embrace the the unique roles that we play in our relationship.

Lisa: 23:26

Right. Back in those days when our kids were little, I remember doing all the shopping with all 3 kids in tow. They were asking for everything on the shelf and

James: 23:33

Right.

Lisa: 23:34

And I'm coming home and I'm unloading them by myself and all the things in meal planning. And you didn't have a lot to do with that those days. And I did actually celebrate. I loved it. But actually, 20 years after that, I'm like, I'm done.

Lisa: 23:45

I've done meal planning and shopping. When I started working full time, you started helping out with I'm going shopping. Right. And then it kinda made a turn and I was like, hey, James, I can start picking that back up. And you're like, no.

Lisa: 23:57

Yeah. You con continue to wanna do it for financial reasons because you actually I call you the

James: 24:03

suburban attention to the prices.

Lisa: 24:04

Yes. You I call you the suburban hunter.

James: 24:06

That's right.

Lisa: 24:07

So you're, like, getting the prices and and so it's something I never did pick back up, but I do feel like there are different roles. One of the things that I think is unique, which is why each of these could be a podcast of their own is in parenting. Sometimes there's places and spaces that you think, oh, the dad needs to come in and bring down the well, sometimes you're like, you have more relationship with this child.

James: 24:27

Mhmm.

Lisa: 24:27

You have more leverage with that individual than I do. Go for it, Lisa. And so then you'll back me up all the way home and but then there are times that you need to say stuff and I need to back you up. So even in parenting, even in all the all the different roles that we have, it's going who's the best suited for that and then celebrate that and stand behind one another. Yeah.

James: 24:47

That's good. Okay. So let's go on to the the 4th priority that we're working on, and that is the priority of commitment. You can see how each one of these are building. Right?

James: 24:56

Here's our here's our statement that we're working around. In our marriage, we honor our commitments to each other consistently. Just as a team meets deadlines, we fulfill the promises we make to each other, whether in small daily acts or larger commitments.

Lisa: 25:09

Mhmm.

James: 25:09

And I love this because this really goes to one of the things that we teach a lot is that we need to practice our promise daily.

Lisa: 25:15

Right.

James: 25:15

Right?

Lisa: 25:16

Right.

James: 25:16

It's it's not just the vows that we made on day 1. But every day, my commitment to you is I'm gonna practice my vows to you and renew those every day. Right?

Lisa: 25:25

That's right. You know what? I'm smiling because I actually said this this week, and I didn't have a chance to tell you that I was telling a young bride. I was like, we practice in sickness and in health for richer, for poorer, till death do us part. Right.

Lisa: 25:37

Fatter or thinner.

James: 25:39

Hopefully, we're on the thinner side

Lisa: 25:41

this time. But do you know what? That our bodies change, fatter or thinner.

James: 25:44

That's right.

Lisa: 25:45

Wrinkles or no wrinkles. Mhmm. Great complexion or not. Right. It's like it's all of those things.

Lisa: 25:49

There's probably a lot in that of going. We love each other. Our commitment to each other is not based on external things that are happening around us. They're based on our commitment to one another. Yeah.

James: 25:59

And it really does start with our daily promises together and honoring our daily promises. I want you to find me faithful that, hey, if I say I'm gonna do this, then I'm gonna do it. If I say that I'm gonna take care of this, I'm gonna take care of it. And and that really builds trust.

Lisa: 26:14

It does.

James: 26:14

Over time, it's like I know that you're if you say you're gonna do it, I can take you at your word. Even today, on the way in here, you asked me to do something, and I said yes. And if I showed up and had not taken care of that, brought you the stuff that you needed, then that could have been a mistake. But it's actually me being true to the things I said I was gonna do. And so those those small daily decisions actually compound over time.

Lisa: 26:37

Right.

James: 26:37

It's that small daily choices, smart choices over time, small daily promises that we keep that actually compound and create trust over time.

Lisa: 26:46

You're it's so true because the reality is you bringing that stuff in today for me, if you wouldn't have done that Mhmm. Because you're so consistent all the time, I would have gone, oh goodness. What happened? Right.

James: 26:56

And you

Lisa: 26:57

would have gone, oh, I forgot it. I'll go back and get it. But it it is true. All the promises kept Yeah. Small and large over time has built so much trust that it makes way for grace Yeah.

Lisa: 27:07

When it doesn't actually happen. It does matter. And we see this with couples often. There are a lot of those breaches in Mhmm. Picking up the mail, taking out the trash, mailing the bill, whatever the thing is.

James: 27:18

Showing up on time.

Lisa: 27:19

Yeah. That actually erode trust. And so then they think it's about the one big thing that they did, but it actually has been eroding all along and all the small things. And so those are daily promises that we keep. I think of even how we communicate this.

Lisa: 27:31

Again, God graced us with this early on is a practice that even when I talk about marriage tension, if I if I were to talk to about with a female or even a tension, if I if I were to talk to about with a female or even a even a counselor Mhmm. I would always keep you in the best light. I would not destroy your character Mhmm. Or speak negative to that. But if you heard, oh, Lisa was talking to me about x y z, you can actually know with confidence, talking to me about x y z, you can actually know with confidence that I would never say anything disparaging about you.

Lisa: 27:57

Yeah. I thought that used to be a female thing Mhmm. That wives because I've I've seen plenty of wives get together and bash their husbands, but unfortunately, time has shown me that that isn't just

James: 28:07

It's just a people thing.

Lisa: 28:08

It's a people thing. Yeah. So I just think even that is a daily promise

James: 28:12

That commitment. Yeah.

Lisa: 28:13

I'm gonna be I'm gonna honor you whether you're around or not. Yeah. Even intentions of, like, like, hey, our communication broke down. Sister friend, what do you guys do in your marriage? But and it's like, oh, we have this tool.

Lisa: 28:23

It's always about pro marriage.

James: 28:26

Right.

Lisa: 28:26

It's always about how can I help build stronger? Well, I'm sure James didn't mean that. Have you ever thought to approach him this way? Mhmm. And I'm like, oh, man.

Lisa: 28:33

I could probably do that. Yeah. So it's it's it's a growing conversation, not tearing down.

James: 28:38

One of the things we talk about is that our actions have consequences, and those consequences create reality.

Lisa: 28:44

Mhmm.

James: 28:45

And so if if our actions or lack of action can also have negative consequences. So if we say we're gonna do something and we don't do it, that causes a negative consequence. And it creates this reality or perception that you don't keep your word or that's what you always do or you always act that way. So if we can keep our commitments and creates those positive consequences, then the reality is that I know I can trust you. I think another place that this shows up is in finances.

James: 29:10

One of the major tensions in marriage is around finances and the use of money. And so I think even on the practical side of keeping our commitments to our budget, keeping our commitments to spending, how we use money, and, you know, all those things kinda build into this idea of commitment.

Lisa: 29:26

That's right. I I was just thinking of the idea of hiding what we spend Mhmm. Is actually lying. Mhmm.

James: 29:33

Yeah. It's a lack of commitment Yeah. To one another. Right?

Lisa: 29:35

I'm like, oh, I'm going to stash this cash and spend it the way I want, or I'm gonna and spend. You know, that's it's it's eroding trust.

James: 29:44

Right.

Lisa: 29:44

And, it actually is avoiding communication on what our goals are and what what we're living into. And even coming together and having that critique conversation of, like, asking the hard questions and then us both coming non defensive. I will say this is a touchy area for us early on of, like, you trying to categorize budget items and me feeling attacked by you wasn't very productive. You were literally just going, where do I itemize this expense? You know?

Lisa: 30:09

And I got all up in arms like you're judging me or something. I think it's just really coming with defenses down, but really trying to honor our again, back to purpose and vision. Mhmm. We have some financial goals we're wanting to do. If I'm out Amazon shopping, not out in my pajamas, Amazon shopping all day.

James: 30:24

I'm going out to the Amazon.

Lisa: 30:26

Yeah. No. So I just go I wanna honor those things, but I often hear about people hiding. And I just wanna say that that's actually eroding a commitment. Yeah.

Lisa: 30:35

Because it's it's it's line. I'm I hate to say it, but it's it's what it is. It's line. Yeah.

James: 30:40

It it yeah. And so okay. So we're building this flywheel. Good communication leads to a strong partnership, which leads to fulfilling and alignment with our purpose, vision, and values that creates commitment. Right?

James: 30:53

And then the 5th priority that we want to talk about for a few minutes here is growth. Here's a statement that we'd say about growth is that in our marriage, we invest strategically in the most important areas, time, energy and resources. We prioritize quality time together, intentionally setting aside moments to connect deeply, nurture our relationship, and create lasting memories.

Lisa: 31:13

Love it. That is so good. And then you know what? I just wanna give us a I wanted to say a plus on this, but I I mean, we always have room for growth, but I'd say at least an a minus.

James: 31:22

On growth, I think we try to grow,

Lisa: 31:23

don't we? I think we really try to prioritize time, energy, and even in our calendar and putting the big rocks in first. I think of fun and adventure. Mhmm. And this is like growth isn't just like growth.

Lisa: 31:33

Like, I'm building muscle and I'm working out. You know, I'm sweating to death and eating raw vegetables all day long. It's like it's it's a part of that, but it's the fun. It's the adventure in life and growing and creating memories together.

James: 31:43

Yeah. Some of the things that we've done in investing time, energy, and resources are just the 2 of us, Trent. Even when the kids were younger, we always prioritize getting away by ourselves for that dedicated, intense, intimate time together for, you know, what started out as a couple days. Now it's a little bit longer. But that requires intentionality.

James: 32:02

It requires resource. It requires energy to put together, but it also has allowed us to stay connected, to keep growing our intimacy, to dream together. The fact that we're doing this podcast came out of one of our just the 2 of us trips that we were dreaming together. Like, hey. How what if we day.

James: 32:20

One day. What if we Yeah. Started just talking about our marriage and giving some tools and tips? I think some of the other things that we we can do to invest our our time and resources is obviously date nights.

Lisa: 32:31

Mhmm.

James: 32:31

You know, or date breakfasts.

Lisa: 32:33

Yep. We've got plenty of those. Yeah. Alright. Also love the idea of investing ourselves in our marriage and retreats Mhmm.

Lisa: 32:39

Community in different types of growth communities that you can be a part of. Reboot, which is an investment into your marriage relationship to help and give framework for where you're going and where you wanna go. Oftentimes, you know, even with a reboot, sometimes have people have a challenge of investing that kind of money. And I'm I'm thinking to myself, when have we actually invested in our marriage in that way, in that intentional way? Now it is great to go on just the 2 of us trip, you know, and set out in the sun and do nothing, which is very valuable.

Lisa: 33:10

It's such a replenishing time, but there is a time for growth in that classes, marriage collective, you

James: 33:15

know. Small groups.

Lisa: 33:16

Small groups. Whatever it is. But it may be investing time. It may be investing resource, but it's just so important.

James: 33:22

Yeah. You're so right, Lisa. I heard someone time that as parents we'll invest 1,000 and 1,000 and 1,000 of dollars in our kids in sports, getting them to the right coach on the right team. But, you know, once we're adults, we don't invest in our skills. And one of our most important skills that we need to invest in is our marriage.

Lisa: 33:40

Right. We want it to come for free. Free 99. Free 99.

James: 33:44

Yeah. And so we we don't really set aside that fact that, like, hey. When you get married, you're not all that yet. Like, you need to continue to grow and develop. And so the things like we do with, like, the marriage reboots, which is that 2 day intensive is the time that maybe, you know, just a reboot that gets some new tools and new new work around your marriage.

James: 34:02

This year, we're starting The Collective, which is our marriage community, ongoing coaching community. The other thing I'm really excited about, we started dreaming about a little bit, is that in fall 2025, we're gonna host our 1st artist spousine marriage retreat.

Lisa: 34:14

I know. I'm excited about it. We're dreaming about it and,

James: 34:17

it's be amazing.

Lisa: 34:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just like an infusion, those vitamin infusions where they hook you up in your in right, intravenously.

James: 34:23

Right.

Lisa: 34:24

Just fuse give life and energy and vitamin and resource to your body. That's what the retreat is gonna be. It's gonna be a time just to infuse tools Mhmm. Time, refreshment, and, I'm I'm excited about it.

James: 34:36

So there's time, energy, resources. I think it's also supporting each other's growth, you know, champion each each other to do some things, whether that's mentally, physically, emotionally. You may need to encourage each other to do some emotional work. I know that there are marriage together. There's been seasons that we've had to work through some emotional baggage from the past and encouraging that and resourcing that so that you you both can stay healthy and grow.

James: 35:00

Right?

Lisa: 35:00

That's right. And it it's a it's a resource. I mean, we've spent good money on counseling for myself and, actually, we have spent good money in counseling for you because it's your bike. You get on your bike, which has been that was supposed to be funny, James. It was funny because you spent some money on your bike.

Lisa: 35:14

I

James: 35:14

have spent a lot of money on my bike. That's But

Lisa: 35:16

it's your therapy. It really is. And I actually appreciate and see that is a way from you to decompress and process much like I do with words and language with a therapist, but those are things we actually invest money in. They're they have been critical into the health and life and the emotional health of each other. So yeah.

James: 35:34

Yeah. I actually have a t shirt. It's one of my favorite t shirts.

Lisa: 35:36

It

James: 35:36

says cycling is my therapist.

Lisa: 35:38

So That's right. But there's also professional pursuits. You know, I wanted to go back to school, and we made the financial commitment for me to get my bachelor's degree later in adult learning. And and then there's spiritual growth of the places we wanna invest, and it may be a spiritual retreat. We wanna fan the flame for all of that in each other's lives.

James: 35:54

Yeah. The big deal there is that we wanna encourage each other to have a growth mindset individually and together. That we haven't arrived. We're still learning. We're still growing.

James: 36:03

We're discovering new things about our communication, discovering new things about how to deal with conflict because those things always come around. And so we want to continue to grow and keep that flywheel of momentum happening. It starts with communication. That's the foundation of a great relationship. We wanna really connect in our partnership together that we're in this together.

James: 36:24

We wanna know what our purpose is and really live out our purpose, our vision, our values, and then really be committed to each other. Mhmm. You know, in those daily promises, making every day count and living out our our our promises daily. And then having that growth mindset, and that creates this flywheel I

Lisa: 36:41

love it.

James: 36:41

Of momentum in our marriage. So, you know, we're still kinda processing it, but that's kind of the raw form of new teaching that we're gonna be working on. You'll probably hear us talk more about that in the episodes that come, but that was fun.

Lisa: 36:53

I loved it. I loved it. I think as we're gonna go back and listen to it because I think there's a lot of practical application and tools in each one of those that we can build stronger communication, commitment, perfect, all of that that will help, strengthen marriages that all of you that are listening Yeah. Aren't espousing. We want it that's what our purpose is.

James: 37:11

That's right. So, maybe You

Lisa: 37:13

know what? We're living out our purpose right now.

James: 37:15

We are. Look at this. Yeah. Look at us. And we're growing because we're getting better.

Lisa: 37:19

So That's right.

James: 37:20

Yeah. So I wanna encourage you maybe just to take one of those priorities and maybe focus on maybe have a conversation with each other this week about, hey, how we doing in this area and how can we grow? How can we get better and go from there?

Lisa: 37:31

I love it.

James: 37:32

Thanks for joining us today on the Artist Bousin Podcast. We're really glad that you took the time listening to us. We really appreciate you being a part of the community and looking forward to be on the podcast together again. Right? Yeah.

Lisa: 37:43

So until then, bye bye. Hey, friends. Before you go, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Artis Bousin and sign up for our newsletter in the show notes to stay updated on all things art espousing. We've got some exciting announcements coming soon, and you're not gonna wanna miss out.