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The Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast explores the real-world strategies behind building strong work culture, improving organizational culture, and leading with clarity in today’s fast-changing business environment.
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yadi caro episode
yadi caro episode
[00:00:00] Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me The Vibrant Coach. And today I have another yes and another amazing, vibrant guest. Wait till you meet her. Her name is Yadi. So let me introduce you to you. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about her. She's an organizational psychology practitioner She's no joke people, and she has been working with teams of developers and engineers for over 15 years with US military organizations as well. She is enthusiastic, which, you know, we're the same animals there. She's enthusiastic about launching high performing teams and transforming organizations to break silos, improve collaboration and innovate.
[00:00:39] Nicole Greer: And to do so, she combines an approach of integrating that organizational psychology. She went to Harvard. Again, she's no joke. And she learned all about agile practices. She's a certified Agile coach and she's the author of this. Look what she sent me in the mail, hardcore Soft Skills. She wrote this book and it's a guide to work with humans, and her courses are available in multiple platforms and including LinkedIn Learning.
[00:01:05] Nicole Greer: Welcome to the show, Yadi I'm so glad you're here.
[00:01:09] Yadi Caro: I am so glad to be speaking with you and Nicole, very happy to be here on your
[00:01:12] Nicole Greer: yeah, it's great. And we're gonna talk about your book today, which I think is gonna be so fantastic. And so, notice here, Caro, right? Yadi for short, A guide to Working with Humans. And so this is what we're gonna talk about today. So first of all hardcore soft skills.
[00:01:27] Nicole Greer: That's a little bit of like saying jumbo shrimp, right? So jumbo and shrimp, right? But hardcore soft skills. I love your title. How'd you come up with the title? It's so good.
[00:01:38] Yadi Caro: Well, thank you. And yeah, so it's the concept overall is the fact that once you realize how the soft skills are not necessarily so soft because they're very difficult to learn. They're difficult to master. Like when you wanna have conversations in the middle of conflict, you realize like, oh yeah, it's.
[00:01:55] Yadi Caro: It's quite difficult or good communication, good, clear communication or negotiating prioritizing, managing the time. Those are certainly things that we can learn and as we all realize and struggle with every day, that's, they're difficult to master. And that's, and, and they require commitment as well.
[00:02:14] Yadi Caro: So that's why you use the concept of hardcore soft skills because they wanted to be able to establish the contrast, which in fact is just very, very much aligned to what soft skills are.
[00:02:24] Nicole Greer: Yeah, that's great. Now, right outta the gate, on page one, everybody, she's got the definition from Miriam Webster's Dictionary, hardcore relating or being part of a hardcore, marked by or involving a persistent state or circumstance. Very active and enthusiastic. Dedicated, diehard, serious or intense in nature or degree.
[00:02:48] Nicole Greer: Oh, I love that, that you pulled that right in there. Okay, so soft skills aren't, aren't easy, right? We've got to really work, work on getting these things done. Okay, now in the book, you break it down there's four parts in the book. The first part is about connecting, right? And so, what do we need to connect with in order to have great soft skills?
[00:03:07] Nicole Greer: Talk about that a bit.
[00:03:09] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so the way I divided the book was in a way of. When I used to launching teams or coaching teams or relaunching teams that have been having trouble, which is the aspect that the, it's kind of like a phase that we need to connect first, communicate, collaborate, and create and correct. And they kind of all go together, but.
[00:03:30] Yadi Caro: As I realized when working with teams or managing teams myself as well, is that without that connection, without really connecting with ourselves and with the people that we work with, which means establishing understanding of what inspires us, what are our strengths, what motivates us. Once we get to know those things about ourselves and about others, we get to work better together because we understand what we bring to a team or a work situation, and also is just help us build that trust early on.
[00:04:00] Yadi Caro: It's just a continual process of what we do, but connecting is very critical in order for work to, to function because we're so focused on processes that we forget that there are people that are, we are working with that make, make the thing happen.
[00:04:16] Nicole Greer: right. That's right. So in this first part, the connect Yadi teaches you to kind of turn the mirror inward. And if you've been listening to my podcast, you know that I have a methodology called Shine, and it's all about self-awareness and like, boom, look, Yadi is backing me up here. The first thing we need to do is find out what we're good at.
[00:04:34] Nicole Greer: So what are, what skills do we need in order? To get into the soft skills, like what do we, what kind of mindset do we need to have? How do we get going with our soft skills? What do we gotta realize about ourselves?
[00:04:45] Yadi Caro: So definitely that growth mindset that we need to have in terms of understanding that these are things that we can cultivate so that things that are not really, we are born with that perhaps. Yes. For example, we can be great communicators, we can be great negotiators, just great with people overall.
[00:05:04] Yadi Caro: And then we assume that we can stay on that state for the rest of our lives and not change anything. And we just go through life, you know, being great communicators buddy. Some of us may have some struggles. So it's important to just have that mindset to understand that if we consider ourselves a, that we are lacking specific skills, that we have the ability to improve on them on a day-to-day basis, because they're situational basis as well.
[00:05:29] Yadi Caro: So it requires that we have a humility in terms of understanding what are we, what do we lack, and what are, what are our strengths as well, and understanding that go in with a mindset of. I'm gonna learn. I may not be great at these things, but hey, if I apply a tool or technique today, I could become a little bit better.
[00:05:47] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so this growth mindset, and so if you are not familiar, there's another author that I bet Yadi is familiar with her work. Her name is Carol Dweck. Everybody write that down. D-W-E-C-K. And Carol Dweck wrote a whole book about mindset.
[00:06:03] Nicole Greer: And that we have to have this attitude of, I don't know how to do this.
[00:06:07] Nicole Greer: Not yet Right. That I'm gonna learn. Right. So I love that. Yeah. And, and I would say that in our self-awareness that, you know, soft skills are easier for some people than others because we're hardwired. Maybe personality plays a part in this. What do you think?
[00:06:21] Yadi Caro: Absolutely, definitely personality plays a a significant part because this is not asking people to just. Change who we are or just, you know, if we tend to be a grumpy person in the room, we don't want to all of a sudden become like the friendliest person. It's like, well, if it's on me, you know, I'm not gonna necessarily become, become another person.
[00:06:40] Yadi Caro: It's just the aspect of there are tools and techniques, just like with any skill, when we wanna become better, for example, at other hard skill like let's say a language like learning German for example, that will be a a. There are techniques that we can use. There are pronunciations that we can have that are better than others.
[00:06:59] Yadi Caro: So it's just a matter of, of having that willingness to understand that what can I apply to my current personality? What are my preferences and. Get out of our comfort zones a little bit, but at the same time, understand that we need to be true to ourselves, so we need to apply certain tools and techniques to become better at emotion management, which is other skill, or how do I manage my time more effectively?
[00:07:27] Yadi Caro: So there are multiple techniques, as you know, out there for even self-awareness of how do we practice that particularly particular skill of becoming self-aware. So it's what we apply, what we feel comfortable with, and at the same time remain true to ourselves on that.
[00:07:44] Nicole Greer: Okay, fantastic. Yeah, and if you go in her book again, the book that she has written is hard. Core soft skills, a guide to work with humans. If you go to page 17, she gives you a little assessment. It's right here, people. And so you can take the assessment and she talks about the fact that we need to be adaptable.
[00:08:01] Nicole Greer: Great at listening in our communication, great at speaking in our communication, great at storytelling, writing, confidence, conflict resolution, creativity, curiosity, diversity, awareness. I can't read 'em all to you. There's too many. So she's got a whole list. Of the soft skills that you can work on. So when you think of soft skills and you're like, well, what are they?
[00:08:19] Nicole Greer: There's an entire list between page 17 and page 22 that we can get our heads wrapped around and you really invite people to kind of take a look at, here's where I am and this is where I wanna be. So I love the current and future self review, which is another actionable thing. You wanna talk about that one a little bit?
[00:08:37] Nicole Greer: The current and future self review.
[00:08:39] Yadi Caro: Yeah. Yeah. So those are, I know there are other authors out there that talk about that particular concept, and I wanted to include that there, because it's important to first understand where we are. And the assessment that I have there is simply to help people kind of do there are of course many self-assessments out there that are more in depth, or, or even if you wanna count your horoscope as one, that's, that's fine as well.
[00:09:01] Yadi Caro: But in terms of.
[00:09:02] Nicole Greer: but I, but I
[00:09:03] Nicole Greer: wouldn't if I were you.
[00:09:03] Yadi Caro: At least
[00:09:04] Nicole Greer: They're
[00:09:05] Nicole Greer: just making that stuff
[00:09:06] Yadi Caro: prefer and absolutely. But in terms of at least having that consciousness of like, okay, what, what am I as a person in terms of what skills do I need to improve? And I invite people to also allow others to evaluate you in terms of, of letting you know about the skills that they see in you, because you may think of something that it's obvious, like, yeah, of course everybody should be able to explain complex things.
[00:09:29] Yadi Caro: And they're like, no, that is actually a pretty good skill to have. So, and you are great at it so that it's important to point that out. And when it comes to our future selves, we have to imagine in terms of what a person that as myself in in five years, how do I. What do I see myself doing or what type of person do I really wanna be?
[00:09:49] Yadi Caro: And that type of person that, for example, that goes in a room and speaks to a bunch of people very comfortably. Well, if I wanna be in that role, then I need to be able to practice specific skills that I see on that person in that role. Like for example, I need to become a better communicator. I need to be able to engage people and be better at storytelling.
[00:10:09] Yadi Caro: So there are the many different things that we can describe as our future self and kind of map a way out our way back to define, okay, if this is a person that I wanna be, then how do I go ahead and develop these skills that I need to become that particular person?
[00:10:24] Nicole Greer: Yeah. That's so good. Okay. All right. So that's, that's the first thing in Connect is our self-awareness. Now here, here's a great chapter in the book here, buddy. I love this title, how to Give a Darn About Others. All right. So, I. Yadi, I'm in so many, many meetings and I'm in a lot of coaching sessions with people and you know, there people will, will just flat out say, well, I don't care about that, or I don't care about what he thinks.
[00:10:48] Nicole Greer: And it's like, you have to care.
[00:10:52] Nicole Greer: Yeah. So will you talk a little bit about empathy and why it's really important at work?
[00:10:57] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so caring about others. 'cause at times we tend to default to the, the thought of, hey, this person is not doing the work because they're just lazy. Like everybody else is lazy and, you know, and, and we don't wanna, and, and, and I feel, and that assumption as well, like why they haven't do their job, like what's going on.
[00:11:14] Yadi Caro: So it's very important if we continue with that mindset of. For example, let's, let's think about the work that we're doing and I would just wanna get the work done. And I'm at work. I'm not here to make friends or anything along those lines. But we do have to care about the other people, not just because, you know, ethically we have to, but also because we have to understand what are their motivations.
[00:11:34] Yadi Caro: Perhaps there's something going on in their homes, perhaps there's some difficulty that they're having. And as humans, we kind of tend to have a. Soft spot for those things. Now, let's imagine that you really don't care what's going on in their homes or anything like that. Even if, if that's the case, we still have to understand the other person motivations.
[00:11:53] Yadi Caro: Like for example, if there's a user that we want to serve the products, our products to, then we have to. Really get in their shoes to understand what is it they really, they really want, they're telling you something that they want about a product, but perhaps it's something else. So we have to put ourselves in the shoes, which is an exercise that I described in the book, to spend a day in the life of the person.
[00:12:13] Yadi Caro: What are their pain points? What are the things that we need to that we want to accomplish as a user? And that at the end will help us develop something better. So we do need to care about the other person just because it's human like to do so. But also because it will be, allow us to have a better product or better outcomes for the things that we're doing.
[00:12:30] Nicole Greer: That's exactly right. And I love what she said. She says, we've gotta put ourselves in the other person's shoes. That's probably the best definition of empathy, is to put yourself in somebody else's shoes, right? And so, again, none of your skills that you try to develop won't matter if you're not connected to the person, right?
[00:12:46] Nicole Greer: So you've got lots of little things in there that I love. The highs and lows exercise a day in the life exercise. A coffee check, check in. So lots of great things there. Okay, now let's talk about the third thing In Connect. We have self-assessment, then we need to be empathetic to put ourselves in other people's shoes, and then we have to do this thing where we have to network.
[00:13:05] Nicole Greer: Okay. Right. Like we actually have to have a, like a posse. Everybody of people that can help us do what we need to do. You've got a great quote in here. It says, one of the major problems that I see is that people don't dig the well. Like I always say, dig the well before you get thirsty, which means build relationships before you need them.
[00:13:26] Nicole Greer: So there are some things going on at work. Maybe we might call it, as you say in the book office politics. So you gotta have some people. That's got your back. Yes,
[00:13:36] Yadi Caro: Absolutely. And that actual quote, even though it was mentioned to be by podcaster Jordan Harbinger, but he also mentioned that he got it from somebody else. I'm trying to remember whose name it was. But it means that in this world, basically we need to have relationships in order to be live as a, have a better life just overall because that's proven by research that relationships, it's what's prevents depression, anxiety, and all these other health issues.
[00:14:02] Yadi Caro: And at work specifically, we need to be able to have those relationships. First, even before outside of our industry to get a job. So it has been proven over and over that having sending your resume somewhere, it's just not enough to, to get a job. You usually get jobs through the network that they have, through the people we meet, that the person who knows there's somebody who knows somebody.
[00:14:25] Yadi Caro: And that's the way that we build those those connections. But also when it comes to the. In, in a work environment doing the work, we tend to focus a lot only on the people that surround us, that are part of our team, without realizing that every work that we do is dependent on another team or another section of the organization that we not necessarily interact with on a day-to-day basis.
[00:14:46] Yadi Caro: Working on an office for example, is a we may see people in another office that we have no clue what they're doing, and then we realize that those person were critical to get the project done. So that's why we need to make deliberate efforts to go ahead and meet the peoples, meet the persons that are out there working in our vicinity or just find mindsets that are alike or find people that we can learn from because that can make our work experience so much better.
[00:15:12] Nicole Greer: Yeah. And so, I mean, I, I, that just made me think of a story and one of the things that I've brought forward in the work that I do helping people create orientation and onboarding programs. You know, when I first got hired by this company called Summit Properties Yadi I was blown away. I had probably had
[00:15:29] Nicole Greer: three or four jobs before that. And they hired me and they said, your first week, all you're gonna do is meet people. I was like. Okay. What?
[00:15:39] Yadi Caro: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:40] Nicole Greer: it's, at some level it was intimidating, but it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. They took me to the home office down on Tryon Street, took me up in the proverbial ivory tower.
[00:15:50] Nicole Greer: It just happened to be a big ivory high rise. And so they took me in and they're like, this is the lady that answers the phone. You know, we want you to know what, who she is, right? And so then she and I had a coffee and then she introduced me to my accountant, who would be the person that would be doing the books for the property I was, I was working at.
[00:16:09] Nicole Greer: Then they took me and introduced me to the owners of the company. Then they took me to lunch and then, I mean, like they showed me around, then they drove me to other apartment communities. I was in property management and like I knew 20 people the first week and had seen eyeballs to eyeballs with them and had
[00:16:26] Nicole Greer: broke bread, drank coffee, had a soda. I mean, it was fantastic. So you gotta do that. So Yadi is correct. All right. So that is so, so important. Okay, so now part two, we're gonna go to, we, we connect right now, we're gonna go to communicate. So in part two you talk about several skills. One the title in this chapter is how to shut up and listen. That is really good advice. Do you wanna talk about listening? Because it's huge.
[00:16:54] Yadi Caro: That is huge, and we realize that we all simply just suck at, at listening because we tend to be either interrupters or tend to jump into solving problems like I usually do. Also, it's just that, that during. Even science proves basically that we are not great listeners because I believe the statistic is that we are, people can talk at about 125 words per minute, yet we can absorb and listen to information for over 400 words per minute.
[00:17:24] Yadi Caro: So that simply means that as I'm, I'm talking or people listening to this podcast, they have in their minds like, have I done my laundry? What do I have to do That's right. I'm hungry. so I am hungry. So all these things. So in order to alleviate that techniques for. Becoming a better listener could include pausing to understand what information we are consuming, repeating back to the person what has said in in a meeting specifically, because that's very critical.
[00:17:52] Yadi Caro: How many times has he, has it happened to people that when we are in a meeting, all of a sudden that we, we walk away from the meeting and everybody had got a different takeaway. So wrapping the meeting up with a, with a summary will be very helpful for the people to understand what's going on and what's the next step after the meeting to save time.
[00:18:11] Yadi Caro: So listening is something that, that's is very critical and a practice that we need to incorporate every single day. It will save time, it will help our relationships, and it will help us manage conflict a little better too.
[00:18:28] Nicole Greer: Yeah. So good. And it get your pens at the ready. You can always tell you if you're listening to this podcast, have a pen and paper. Have your, have your. Have your keyboard. Ready? Here's the four things that Yadi's got in the book. Step one, turn off distractions. I don't know if you have this experience when you're coaching people, Yadi, but I coach people and have to say, do you have your email turned off?
[00:18:48] Nicole Greer: Is there a sign on your door that says you can't talk right now?
[00:18:52] Yadi Caro: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:52] Nicole Greer: You know, I mean, like really simple things are so essential. The other day I was coaching a young man and his leader who hired me to coach him interrupted the coaching session. Insisted and I'm like, what is happening right now?
[00:19:05] Nicole Greer: And then, you know, pay attention to what's not said.
[00:19:08] Nicole Greer: That means reading between the lines, everybody. Listen, like a therapist, ask open-ended questions and and, and do not fear interruption. So you said don't be an interruptor, but what do you mean this is a good one? What do you mean about a strategic interruption?
[00:19:24] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so there are times, as we may have had that there are either a coworker or a person that just comes into our desk and then they come in and talk and you're trying to do work, and they just, you know, basically continue talking. They're very engaged. It was, won't shut up. So, and when it comes to I, the strategic interruption should be if you hear that the person, it's not urgent that they're not necessarily trying to, you know, tell you something.
[00:19:51] Yadi Caro: Like if it's a personal story that they're sharing with you, you might wanna listen and, and listen in and lean in and listening. But if it's just a matter of making small talk and you really have to work, you just have to kind of wrap it up. Like, Hey, pardon the interruption. I can. Can we go ahead and I heard this part of what you said.
[00:20:07] Yadi Caro: Let's revisit next time. Let's schedule some time to talk about it to talk about this. I really need to get back to this particular work that I'm doing, but giving them a hint that you are listening to them. Like, Hey, oh, that sounds interesting, the part I wanna hear about what your cat did today.
[00:20:22] Yadi Caro: But let's go ahead and, and wrap it up. And, or let's go ahead and talk about it out. I'll go over to your desk in a little bit once I finish this piece of work that I'm doing. So kind of using those indications that you're listening to the person but also keeping that conversation focused
[00:20:38] Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right. That's so good. And then she's got other techniques in here. Do a storytelling, storytelling challenge with your team. Come up some with some one minute topics. And then here's an oldie, but a goodie is another exercise to practice with your team or individ individually is the elevator pitch.
[00:20:55] Nicole Greer: I mean, I haven't heard that in a while. Like that's a good, an oldie, but a goodie. That's really nice. Okay, now you know, this thing of listening and then you've gotta do that. But now we also want to convince without feeling sleazy. Talk about that. I love the titles of your chapters, and this is, this is about influence and persuasion skills.
[00:21:13] Nicole Greer: So talk a little bit about persuasion, why you need to have this. Why First of all, why do I need to persuade people?
[00:21:19] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so persuasion, when we hear about it, we presume that it's something about, that there's something inherently evil about like, I'm gonna persuade you to do this thing that could be illegal.
[00:21:30] Yadi Caro: Unethical.
[00:21:31] Nicole Greer: force you with my mind. Yeah.
[00:21:32] Yadi Caro: Yeah. So persuasion is about inviting other people to do something that you wish. They could be doing, but kind of get, just basically get buying on a, on an initiative.
[00:21:42] Yadi Caro: For example, if you're in a team and you think about a great solution that you wanna accomplish with a specific application that you're developing, you might want to go ahead and first listen to the team and say, Hey, hey, what's a concern that you have with this idea that I was presenting earlier? I wanna hear what you have to say and then think about incorporating their ideas to your idea too.
[00:22:04] Yadi Caro: So you are, at the same time that you're listening, you are also persuading them, which is inviting them again to do what you want them to be doing, but that will end up benefiting everybody. The outcome, the key there is that when you persuade there's benefit for everyone. It's not just like to gain your advantage that you, you'll end up getting all the advantage for that particular initiative is that everybody can benefit and the intent is that you convince them in a way that everybody has a buy-in at the end because they also see the benefit themselves.
[00:22:34] Nicole Greer: Okay, fantastic. Yeah. And you've got, you know, six steps in here to persuade. So I love the fact that this book, y'all, it is highly applicable. It's a workbook really. It's not a read, it's a workbook. Okay. So the Guide to Working with Humans Yadi Ca ro. Hard Soft Skills. Hardcore Soft Skills. I love it.
[00:22:54] Nicole Greer: Okay. All right. Now this one is huge. So again now we connected, now we're communicating, we're in the second part of her model. Writing skills like this is huge,
[00:23:05] Yadi Caro: Yes.
[00:23:05] Nicole Greer: stringing those old sentences together. Talk a little bit about why writing is a huge, hardcore soft skill.
[00:23:12] Yadi Caro: Yes, especially now because we tend to just go to our preferred AI tool chat GPT, to write our emails, to write our books, to write everything. So it's just a matter of realizing that the activity of writing is not just a matter of summarizing things. When we are writing, we are thinking we are absorbing the information and putting it into a language that we can understand.
[00:23:38] Yadi Caro: So we have to think of as the activity of writing, that's something that's engaging our brain because it is, it is engaging our brain, it is engaging our ability to comprehend specific concepts. And even as research has shown even handwriting is even better. So if we don't wanna spend the time either journaling or, or handwriting, at least let's make an effort before we go into chat GPT to write something for us or do a summary for us to do the work ourselves.
[00:24:04] Yadi Caro: Just to make sure that our neurons in our brains keep working because that is the case. It is not, it is the, is the over reliance on ChatGPT kind of. It doesn't promote that brain activity that helps us develop critical thinking. So this is why it's so important to practice this skill, even though of course we will save time using ChatGPT and others.
[00:24:25] Yadi Caro: But this is an exercise into comprehending complex things.
[00:24:29] Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right. And and here's the thing. If you go and look at any ChatGPT get started advice, it says, the better the, the things you put into chat GPT, the better you will get out of chat GPT. So there, you know, so there is this thing called prompting and so the better prompts that you do with your own brain will help chat, help you.
[00:24:52] Nicole Greer: Okay? So I love that. So good AI connection there. Okay. Now probably the biggest problem in corporate America is misunderstanding. And you have a whole chapter dedicated to how to prevent misunderstandings. And in there you have lots of great exercises, but one is like, there's a whole list of questions.
[00:25:12] Nicole Greer: Who is your audience? Is this urgent? Is it directive? Is this complicated? Does there need to be a written record about this? So will you kind of talk about preventing misunderstandings? That's huge.
[00:25:25] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so there are many ways that we could prevent misunderstanding and many skills that we need to develop in order to prevent that. Of course, it's not a hundred percent, you know, we, there are always gonna be misunderstandings at work, but one of the key things that I've found is that a lot of the times is the method that we're using for communication.
[00:25:41] Yadi Caro: communication So especially now with in remote teams, like I have a team of project managers and we're all remote, and when it comes to things that are urgent, I may go ahead and just send it either a quick chat or give people a call. When it comes to the discussing a complex project, maybe chat may not be the best way to do so, or even addressing co conflict.
[00:26:04] Yadi Caro: When people start, when you see that, that a particular text is getting like three lines or longer, it's time to just pick up the phone and,
[00:26:11] Nicole Greer: And the phone
[00:26:12] Nicole Greer: is a huge thing 'cause you get so much more information on a telephone call.
[00:26:16] Yadi Caro: Yeah. Yeah. So part of the, of that chapter is to explain that first step aside from, you know, how do we communicate, how we listen, is first, establish the rules of how we're gonna communicate as a team or as an organization.
[00:26:31] Yadi Caro: For leaders specifically that if they wanna communicate about things to their company, they may do it in an email, but at the same time, people may not understand and may not give you feedback. So when is the time to just do an all hands where you take questions and answers? So it's just the method is so very important and we tend to forget about that and assume that we, everybody else prefers our method of communication.
[00:26:55] Yadi Caro: So it's important to talk about that upfront and define those rules of how we're gonna communicate.
[00:26:59] Nicole Greer: I absolutely love it. Okay. Fantastic. All right. And then the last part in here is all about you know, motivating people, collaborating and creating. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about not reinventing the wheel. Okay. So sometimes we, there's already a solution. We don't have to sit in here and dream up something.
[00:27:19] Nicole Greer: So I think people concentrating on this hard, cold, hardcore, hard, cold, hardcore soft skill
[00:27:28] Nicole Greer: is problem solving and problem finding skills. That one is huge. Will you talk a little bit about that?
[00:27:35] Yadi Caro: Yeah. Another thing that's becoming very significant as a skill in the age of ai, because in right now, a, with ai, we're automating solutions. We can find solutions to the, any problem that we have, we could do the right prompt. It could give
[00:27:50] Nicole Greer: There you go, the right prompt.
[00:27:51] Yadi Caro: the, the methodology of, of how to do. How to do the thing.
[00:27:55] Yadi Caro: So it, that's why it a problem finding, like, what is the problem that we're trying to solve? That that goes back to the connection first, especially when it comes to customer connecting with them, building empathy. Are they in their, in their shoes? Building listening to understand what is really the problem that we're trying to solve here, and defining that as a team because in the world that I'm in, in technology.
[00:28:18] Yadi Caro: We are, we're in love with solutions. We go into a meeting and just present, like, look at this amazing solution. Now it's solutions finding a problem and we don't really tend to resolve the issue that the people are having. So taking a step back to define what is the true problem that we're trying to solve, then we can go ahead and do, use the tools that we have available like AI to be, to come up with even better solutions that we were thinking about.
[00:28:42] Yadi Caro: So that's why problem finding is important.
[00:28:44] Nicole Greer: That's right, that's right. And there's this, this thing, it's, they use it in Six Sigma and it's called the Five Why's, Everybody. And so if you will just go to chat GPT and like don't go five why's deep, You, it will help you think it through, but do it yourself first. I love what Yeti's saying about.
[00:29:01] Nicole Greer: Use your brain, people use your brain.
[00:29:04] Nicole Greer: See what you come up with. Because again, the better things you put into chat, the better. Okay, now I'm gonna skip ahead all the way to 3.7 in the book. 'cause everybody's gonna love this title too. How to create Meetings That Suck Less. So everybody lean in
[00:29:20] Nicole Greer: everybody. Get your pen at, at the ready. All right, so you Steve Roll, Rogelberg. You have a quote. It says, meetings can be a place for gain, not drain. I agree with him. All right. Tell us how to make our, our meetings better.
[00:29:33] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so, and Steve Rogelberg, who's actually a, a organizational psychology that is, he has written books, whole books about just meeting planning and meeting agenda. And he says he doesn't even love meetings that much. So it's
[00:29:46] Nicole Greer: He is trying to fix a problem so he can get out of these bad meetings. Right.
[00:29:50] Yadi Caro: Exactly. So when it comes to meetings, like I, I enjoy good meetings where meetings that you walk away, I'm like, oh yeah, that was good.
[00:29:57] Yadi Caro: And everybody comes refresh with ideas. So there are, this is easy practice or easy techniques that we can implement like tomorrow when it comes to a meeting, like if you're planning a meeting, instead of just putting the same agenda each time, ask questions in the form of the, instead of the agenda, just ask questions.
[00:30:15] Yadi Caro: And by the end of the meeting, you know that you will walk away answering a question, not just like everybody just giving their status, like going around and people are just listening for their name to tune into the meeting because they're multitasking, most likely if they're in a, in a remote environment.
[00:30:30] Yadi Caro: So techniques like that, like the agenda or. Set, making them shorter or smaller. Like, he was, he have done some recent research on that, and he mentioned that it was about seven people in a meeting. It depends, of course, but the more people you have in a meeting, it could, it just, a collaboration is not there.
[00:30:48] Yadi Caro: So I provide some advice there of things that if we implement, like this week, you will see the change immediately. And it's, it, it's, it's just waste. We spend so much time and that wastes companies so much in productivity because we spend our days in meetings that a lot of the times are not productive.
[00:31:07] Nicole Greer: Oh, and I, I talk to people and like I'm trying to schedule time with them, and they're like back to back to back to back. I'm like, when do you do the work?
[00:31:17] Yadi Caro: Yeah.
[00:31:17] Nicole Greer: do you do the work? Okay.
[00:31:19] Nicole Greer: Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know what all these meetings are about. They could be that simple phone call that you and I were just talking about instead of having everybody in a meeting.
[00:31:27] Nicole Greer: Okay. Now, I love this one, especially for those out there who are prone to picking up the pieces after people. Who are people pleasers that are trying to make everybody happy. If you, if that perked up your ears right there, if that's you in this chapter, how to say no without feeling guilty.
[00:31:49] Nicole Greer: Yeah. So you, you gotta know your yes. And you gotta know your no, don't you?
[00:31:53] Yadi Caro: Yes. And, and that's especially critical for women because yeah, we tend to be, wanna be, you know, cooperative and help get things done and we're like, yeah, sure, I'll do it. And,
[00:32:04] Nicole Greer: We're all, everybody's mother
[00:32:06] Nicole Greer: or sister. Yeah.
[00:32:08] Yadi Caro: exactly. That's true. And, and it is important to recognize that that's the reason why sometimes we may not get to be promoted because we, we may not have time for the things that are really truly important.
[00:32:19] Yadi Caro: So it's that having that criteria of what's important at, at work in terms of, you know, when you walk each day, like what are your priorities and if it doesn't fit. That the priority that you have established or that the team has established, then you should be able to easily say, no. That's important to have a framework first and then define, okay, is this activity that they're asking me to do, is it gonna deviate from the things that are really important and everybody knows they're really important?
[00:32:47] Yadi Caro: Then it becomes a little bit easier to manage those nos and, and just recognize that we're not telling them, no, I'm never gonna help you. So say like, Hey, maybe I could just drive you to another resource because I've connected already with other folks that could help you, or I could show you how to do the thing to empower you to do it by yourself next time, and just so not rely on me.
[00:33:07] Yadi Caro: So I provide some techniques there that could make it easier for people to just, it's, it's a matter of focusing on the right thing.
[00:33:13] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Fantastic. Okay. All right. And you know, I think that a, a thing about the yes' or no, she's got some exercises in here and a framework, the four W's and one H framework. So the four W's are, who is asking you to do this? What is the request really about? Why is this request coming up? When is this needed by, and how is.
[00:33:34] Nicole Greer: As possible. I just love that as a little, like you need a, you need a sticky note, you need a laminated card on your, you know, screen that makes you ask yourself these questions.
[00:33:44] Yadi Caro: Yeah, because see, for example, if it's a CEO asking you to do something and you're like, no, I'm protecting my space. I'm saying, no. And like, no,
[00:33:52] Nicole Greer: that's a bad move. Back to politics. Don't do
[00:33:55] Nicole Greer: that people.
[00:33:55] Yadi Caro: exactly. Yeah.
[00:33:57] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Okay. So that is fantastic. I love all that. Okay, so let's go on to the last part of the book. So, you know, let's go through her model real quick. Get your pens at the ready. First thing is connect. So connect with yourself. You know, what soft skills do I have?
[00:34:12] Nicole Greer: Take the assessment. You have to care about other people. Soft skills are about really the soft, in soft skills is about care. Okay? I care about the work, I care about the company, I care about the people, I care about my future. All those things. All right. And then communicate. We just, we just, y'all, we couldn't go that deep on the communicate, but she's got all these skills in here and little tools and techniques and exercises for you to do. Part two:
[00:34:36] Nicole Greer: now we went to collaborate and create, and now we're at, correct. Okay. And so first of all, what do you mean by correct? What do you mean by correct?
[00:34:45] Yadi Caro: Yeah. So correct refers to the the aspect of now that we have taken all these activities about collaboration and communication, it's time to take, take the mindset of truly learning what has been going well, what is improvement? So correct includes skills such as the conflict management, which is the things that didn't go necessarily well.
[00:35:09] Yadi Caro: So there's conflict and it needs to be managed, not necessarily squash or prevented.
[00:35:13] Nicole Greer: could have good conflict.
[00:35:15] Yadi Caro: Exactly. And that's one of the things that the, in the book I wanted to address because a lot of the times in the teams I've worked with, they see conflict as a bad thing. And they think that if things are, everybody's getting along, quote unquote that things are going well, which is not the case.
[00:35:29] Yadi Caro: So conflict management giving and receiving feedback is part of that because we want to be able to have good ways of giving feedback, which is, could be very challenging. Or also it's a, it is a significant challenge for people to receive feedback as well. So it includes all those skills that pertain to how do we make this thing or this team or this project better, and how do we deal with the things that are not necessarily so pleasant as well.
[00:35:56] Nicole Greer: Ah, that's right, that's right. And you have from your training in Agile, you have the Agile manifesto at regular intervals, the team reflects on how to become more effective then tunes and adjusts its behavior accordingly. So this is like performance management?
[00:36:15] Yadi Caro: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I find it quite interesting that I've worked with a lot of different agile teams and there's a, they're call either ceremonies is what they call these events when it comes to either you have the spring planning or you have the spring review. And a lot of the times the teams will get rid of a very important ceremony, which was retrospective because they're like, oh, everything's going well.
[00:36:37] Yadi Caro: We need it. And that's. The most critical event that you could have in a team because it invites the team to look together to those reflect on what they have learned and need improvement on a very regular cadence. Even if you think that things are going well, but then you realize that things have
[00:36:52] Yadi Caro: escalated that this is when you need human resources to jump in or the, the manager to jump in because it's simply that people didn't take the time to address conflict any issues face to face and squash 'em right away and figure out like, okay, this is a process that we need to improve. What can we do in the next two weeks to improve this particular process?
[00:37:13] Yadi Caro: So it's very critical, yet a lot of teams tend to kind of, not worry about that too much unless things get really, really bad.
[00:37:20] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. And so I love that. So you've got the guidelines for the retrospective is on page 1 42 and 1 43, and then you've got another one of my favorite organization development psychology things is this little simple thing. What do we need to start doing? What do we need to stop doing? What do we need to continue doing?
[00:37:41] Nicole Greer: So I love that little where I, I picked that up in my coaching training. Is that where you got that?
[00:37:47] Yadi Caro: Yeah, yeah. For Agile frameworks when it came to Agile coaching, and I find it interesting 'cause the, all the people that, all those guys who created the Agile Manifesto were all very folks that were not necessarily in the, you know, performance management spaces. They were just people that were doing a getting together to create better solutions to develop their products faster.
[00:38:10] Yadi Caro: So that came up very technical folks. So the fact that they realize the importance of in order to develop something better, faster, better quality, we need to do these activities and, and reflect on how we're doing.
[00:38:21] Nicole Greer: Yeah. That's so good. Okay. All right, so another one that you have is this thing of feedback skills. So I teach feedback all the time in my leadership development. I have a little thing called a C3, which is like, you know. What are the circumstances here? What's the conduct people are doing? And then what, what happens when we do the, this kind of behavior?
[00:38:41] Nicole Greer: Right? I'd like to hear about, you know, how you think people should give feedback. People are very scared to give it. They're worried about those relationships, but I think we really want, most people, if you ask them, do, would you like me to tell you the truth? They're like, yes. Yeah. So will you talk a little bit about feedback?
[00:38:59] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so there are, it's, it's great that you have that teaching people to give feedback is such a difficult skill that I feel like myself, I'm, I'm still working to improve in, in it because we think that, first of all, we think that people react to feedback all the same way that we will react to feedback.
[00:39:16] Yadi Caro: Like, for example, I. Think I like to welcome feedback from people, like, how am I doing? And then people give, give feedback to me. Perhaps I may disagree with them, but when it comes to that, you could disagree and listen to the feedback, as long as they're not insulting you in terms of attacking you personally.
[00:39:32] Yadi Caro: You could take say thank you to the feedback that you have received and like, okay, I'm gonna evaluate things and then move on, even, even if you don't agree with the person, it's not a matter of in that moment going ahead and getting into like, this is why I'm right, and this is why you're wrong. Just take the feedback and, and again, if it's not insulting and then going ahead
[00:39:51] Yadi Caro: and thank the person. So you can evaluate really if it's something that needs to be changed. And when it comes to giving feedback asking for permission first is a good thing to do. A good practice that I realize it, that yes, that hey, you kind of give you some feedback and sometimes the person will be like, yeah, sure.
[00:40:07] Yadi Caro: Kind of like under, under the, like, of course I want to receive feedback. Just welcome it and ask for permission, but also focus on the process, not the person. Or just say like, oh, you tend to be this type of person. You tend to be a great communicator or a bad communicator, or you tend to be distracted.
[00:40:23] Yadi Caro: Like focus on the specific, be very specific about the, what you're saying in terms of the process itself, not the person. And sometimes it's just good to be direct. I know we've learned this technique about the sandwich feedback, but the, yeah, research has shown that it's not, it's not good. It's like, yeah, I see that coming.
[00:40:41] Yadi Caro: You tell me the good thing and then the bad thing and you close it up. Yeah, just. Just keep it to me straight,
[00:40:46] Nicole Greer: that's right.
[00:40:46] Yadi Caro: but yeah, it's better as research has shown, as you know, it said, it's just better to be direct when it comes to feedback.
[00:40:52] Nicole Greer: Right. Yeah, because it's, it's, it's not only that, but like if somebody got feedback, here's something good, here's something bad, here's something good. How'd your review go? It was good. Mainly good.
[00:41:02] Yadi Caro: Ex Yeah, exactly. Oh, you, you remember the last thing
[00:41:05] Nicole Greer: Yeah, it was two thirds good, one third not so hot. And so I think I'm good, you know, and so that maybe not even take your, the Oreo and the, it's the most delicious part is the creamy middle. I'm just saying. Okay. In the Oreo cookie. All right. Yeah. Alright, now let's, let's move on to change, and we could probably do another hour, couldn't we Yadi on change management and skills needed and change and just, and here's the thing about change, everybody.
[00:41:31] Nicole Greer: Business is change. I, you know, it's like over the years, I don't know John Kotter I love his model, by the way, his eight step model for change. She mentions it here in the book and he's at MIT or was at MIT, Massachusetts Institute of technology. But here's the thing, if a business isn't changing, it's gonna go outta business.
[00:41:51] Nicole Greer: And so they've separated out this thing called change management, but you're doing it every single day. You're not like initiating a change. It should be back to improving your processes, you know, with the Agile it should be every day. Okay, so, that said chapter 4.3, how to deal with constant change, which means how to deal with business or life.
[00:42:14] Nicole Greer: Anyways, what do you think about change?
[00:42:17] Yadi Caro: Yeah. So I took and that was actually one of my favorite conversations that I had on my podcast, which was with John Kotter a few years ago because he was he's the authority in change management for the organizations. So I took those eight steps, and I was thinking from the perspective of, okay, this is the perspective of the organization, what to do from the organization to implement change.
[00:42:37] Yadi Caro: So I took that from the individual's perspective of like, okay, change is coming to me, so I'm gonna take those first steps those eight steps that he describes, and kind of see how do I adapt to that change and, and be the person that's willing to, you know, change with the organization because we always see that as a bad thing when we, when it comes to, you know, reorgs or things along those lines.
[00:42:59] Yadi Caro: 'cause of course it's affecting, we don't know how it's gonna impact our, our roles or we see it as a threat. But if we realize that, hey, there could be something good coming out of this particular change. So let's see, how do I start preparing? Even now, because even if the organization that you're in has not announced a change, just be sure that something's gonna happen in the next six months as, as technology is evolving, as the economy changes.
[00:43:24] Yadi Caro: So those are steps to enable to ensure that us as individuals or even as members of a small team that we are managing, or we are, we're a member of, that we can able be better able to deal with those.
[00:43:36] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. And so you've got that all laid out, the eight steps. And really my, my favorite thing that people miss in the change is oftentimes these changes are gonna take a while. But number six in John Kotter's method that she's got in here on page 1 59 is you need to generate some short term wins. And then not only that, but then you need to celebrate.
[00:43:59] Nicole Greer: Celebrate these short term wins. So if you're in the middle of a change and something's working, you need to say something and let the whole group know, let the whole company know. Yeah, so I love that. Okay, so you've got two other exercises in here for change, circle of control and reframe the change. I love that.
[00:44:14] Nicole Greer: But let's skip ahead and let's, let's have business be the last thing. And listen, y'all, you gotta go get the book. Here it is again, if you're watching on the YouTube Hardcore Soft Skills, a Guide to Work with Humans, and everybody's thinking, oh my God, I need a guide for humans. It's because the humans are messy. Humans are messy. So what if I just can't get along with somebody? You've got a quote from Pastor JJ, who's pastor JJ, first of all.
[00:44:39] Yadi Caro: Yeah, he is a pastor of my church
[00:44:41] Nicole Greer: Oh, I love
[00:44:41] Nicole Greer: pastor JJ already. Okay. A guy who just goes by JJ. All right. Conflict can be in the classroom or a coffin that buries the relationships. Conflict can be a classroom or a coffin that buries relationships.
[00:44:55] Nicole Greer: That is so good. Pastor JJ, we love you. All right. Talk a little bit how to disagree. Chapter 4.4. I love it.
[00:45:03] Yadi Caro: Yeah. So, there are, of course, there's always conflict that's gonna happen in with any relationships or in our day-to-day work, and we need to start framing it from a perspective of like, oh, you know, what, what conflict's gonna happen today? What things, what are we gonna disagree on? Not conflict from the perspective of like, what is this person gonna do to me today?
[00:45:20] Yadi Caro: You know, it's more along the like of. Hopefully it is not that, and you're not part of an environment that's like that, that you feel that you have to watch your back constantly because somebody's out there to get you. Now, that's definitely a definition of a toxic environment, but if you are in a team and you may have different ideas on how you're gonna do the work, how you gonna achieve a solution and you think that you may have better ideas than this other person
[00:45:46] Yadi Caro: and this team, it's how to manage that. That's the part that when it comes to referring to conflict is seeing, okay, we have different ideas. Let's figure out a place of how we're gonna discuss this idea. So having a team agreement, it's an activity that I described that is
[00:46:01] Nicole Greer: like a team contract.
[00:46:02] Yadi Caro: Exactly, yes.
[00:46:04] Yadi Caro: And even establishing beforehand, I know at the beginning in a team we may be, it's all kumbaya. We're gonna be awesome and gonna work together. Conflict is gonna happen. So if it comes to that to say like, okay, if we having conflict, how are we gonna make the decision first? Or how do we, who do we defer the decision to, or if there's conflict and if it gets heated, what, how are we gonna address that in the office?
[00:46:27] Yadi Caro: So it doesn't become uncomfortable for everybody. It's like, okay, things are getting heated, guys. Let's take a little break. Or just establishing a mechanism for like, okay, seems that, you know, we disagree. And let's go to the, to the this specific, closing the innovation corner, we're gonna call it, or something like that.
[00:46:42] Yadi Caro: Something that could make it more welcoming. Like, Hey, let's go to the innovation corner and discuss this, because it seems to be disagreeing on the thing. And it's just finding ways, anticipating as a team, how are we gonna manage those disagreements to make sure that the ideas are heard and that when people think of conflict, they see something that's
[00:47:00] Yadi Caro: even exciting in terms of like, hey, there's what something good's gonna come out of this. And we may have to make some compromises, but at the same time, we welcome that in the team. We don't squash it because when you squash a conflict within a team and you stop hearing about other people's ideas, then it's basically that, that people are giving up on the work and we don't wanna have that in an organization.
[00:47:24] Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right. And we said it earlier, but there's this whole thing called productive conflict, right. So, we're never gonna get to the bottom of it if we don't discuss it. Right. You know, we don't have the, the great issues section. So I love that. Okay, so to wrap it up, all right, I know y'all are like, oh my gosh.
[00:47:41] Nicole Greer: Don't let Yadi go. You. Well, you, she, she has a life people, she has to get on with her life. She has to go. But you know, here's her book, hardcore Soft Skills, A Guide to Working with those pesky things called Humans. Okay? And so, her name is Yadira (Yadi) Caro Okay, so go get the book. It's got all the soft skills laid out.
[00:48:02] Nicole Greer: do this as a lunch and learn with your team, right? So like buy everybody pizza for the next 32 weeks. And on Fridays, or no, actually let's have a, a grilled chicken salad. Okay? It's summertime. Okay? And do that. All right. And now you say, here's the thing, you know, none of this stuff works unless you are committed, right?
[00:48:22] Nicole Greer: And on page 189, she says, a, as you have read this book from beginning to end, and you may have skipped parts here and there, she says, one last thing on your mind is now I'm onto my next read, but really what you need to do is you need to commit to this work in here. So talk about commitment and, and making a really solid commitment to increasing your soft skills.
[00:48:43] Yadi Caro: Yeah, so this is the part where a lot of us think to be overload with information. Like I've read, like all the leadership books, all the podcasts,
[00:48:52] Nicole Greer: Yeah, all the things.
[00:48:53] Yadi Caro: all the things, and then we think, like, we feel that at the end we're in the same place we were at the beginning. So the key there is just to go ahead and make a commitment like, okay, of this book, even if it's just
[00:49:04] Yadi Caro: from my book, take one or two things that you're gonna start implementing with yourself and with your team in the next month. Like commit to an activity that you're really gonna practice. Because otherwise it's just knowledge and information. So that's the part that we, A lot of us, again, just, just fail at that, how many books of we have read and we feel that we haven't really made any improvements.
[00:49:23] Yadi Caro: So that's the aspect of learning as a team. I love the suggestion that you have about a launch and learn. So we can like, okay, I read this book, but then we're all gonna
[00:49:32] Nicole Greer: That's right. We're gonna start saying no to things. We're gonna start saying no to each other when we need to.
[00:49:38] Yadi Caro: When we need to, if we have the priorities straight, then it becomes easier. So how we, which things are we implement and how as a team we're committed.
[00:49:46] Yadi Caro: Because teams are learned together, are proven by research to just be more effective teams too. So it's important to commit.
[00:49:53] Nicole Greer: Yeah. That's fantastic. Okay, and so here's your call to action, everybody. What should you do next? Well, you should first of all, get the book. Okay. Buy Yadi's book, and then you're thinking. I probably need somebody to hold me accountable. So call Yadi, call myself, and we will be your coach. We will help you learn to do these things.
[00:50:11] Nicole Greer: We would love to hold you accountable for that and get things in place. So if somebody wanted to get ahold of you, where would they find you? What's the best way to get up with you?
[00:50:19] Yadi Caro: So certainly on LinkedIn I'm very active. They could find me by yadicaro on LinkedIn and I, I engage with every single person that I connect with and also go to my website yadicaro.com, Y-A-D-I-C-A-R-O.com. And you'll see there are all the episodes. I have like 200 plus episodes of of the podcast with interviews with different people like John Kotter like we talked about.
[00:50:40] Yadi Caro: People that were creators of the Agile manifesto as well. So many others, and, and resources too. And I'll be happy to engage and learn from, from the teams. 'cause I always also learned like learning from, from the listeners and the people that I engage with of other practices they have to improve their soft skills.
[00:50:56] Nicole Greer: Okay, fantastic. And if you wanna get up with Nicole Greer, here's what you do. You go to vibrant culture.com and there is a place on there to spend 30 minutes with me to talk about what kind of things you want to do to create a more vibrant culture. Thanks everybody for listening. It's been another awesome show.
[00:51:12] Nicole Greer: I will see you on the LinkedIn, you'll see Yadi on the LinkedIn and you know, check out more episodes of the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. Go down and give us a like and leave a love note. Us girls, we worked hard for the last hour, trying to give you some good downloadables. Everybody have a great week.
[00:51:27] Nicole Greer: I'll see you next week.