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Seth Baumgartner and Jason Van Leuven open the mics for your crop steering and cultivation questions.
Kaisha [00:00:04]:
What's up Gromies? Welcome to AROYA Office Hours, your source for free cannabis cultivation education. I'm your moderator, Kaisha. This is episode 121 shout out to our live viewers on YouTube and Instagram. To everyone tapping in on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast, thank you so much for your support. And if you like the pod, please do leave us a review. We really appreciate the feedback. There's a QR code on screen if you scan it. That is your opportunity to join Arroy at MJ Bizcon.
Kaisha [00:00:30]:
We'll be in the north hall in the cultivation pavilion December 3rd through the 6th in booth 35023. Tap in now. Take a screenshot for later to sign in for updates on the new innovations and other announcements we're going to be dropping at the show. You do not want to miss out on this one with that. Seth and Sian, how you guys doing today? Doing?
Seth [00:00:49]:
Doing really well, Kaisha.
Kaisha [00:00:51]:
Great. Good. All right, well, you ready for our first question? We got this one is a follow up from Miles. We love a follow up. This was a follow up from last week's question regarding light levels and quality and yield. If we running high 1300 ppm CO2 at just 750 to 800 PPFD, could this cause any negative effects to the smell or the quality?
Sian [00:01:14]:
You're not likely to see any negative effects on plant development at those kind of levels. You know, usually that 5 to 10,000 range is where we start to see effects on plant morphology. At that point though, you're not really you. If you have 1300 ppf ppm of CO2, you can certainly be pushing over a thousand ppft. So if you're at those lower light levels, you're really just probably wasting a little bit of money on CO2 in whatever capacity that you're producing it. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I know Scenes had some situations where his controller was not functioning properly and I think he could comment on some probably both high and low scenarios.
Seth [00:01:55]:
Yeah, I mean, so I've had a couple of scenarios where my controller for a while was not calibrated properly and that is to the sensor that was running. That controller wasn't properly pre calibrated before I started that run. And so I was seeing really, really high CO2 levels throughout that run and it took me quite a while to nail down exactly what that caused that specific issue was happening to be at the time in that CO2 system and before I figured it out. I was pushing really high levels and starting to see odd issues with the plants, but that's really, really high. You're going to have to get into ranges that, you know, start causing plant toxicity before you really see any of those plant morphology issues. However, as soon as I was able to correct that issue with my controller, the plant morphology issues, the next round just disappeared. It was kind of just a non issue from that point forward. So just to say, sometimes we all need to double check those little parts of the system that we assume can't be causing those things.
Seth [00:03:09]:
But in your situation, kind of like Seth said, you, I don't think you're really going to see too much in the way of issues at that level. You're probably just, you know, losing a little money on the CO2 or, you know, if you want to keep the CO2 that high, if you can push the light levels up like Seth said, that's going to be the best way to maximize what you get out of that CO2 level.
Kaisha [00:03:31]:
Yeah.
Sian [00:03:32]:
I think another thing to bring up when we're talking about CO2 levels is the effect on transpiration. If you have too low of a CO2 level, that and a dry environment, your plant can't properly regulate its stomatal opening and it's going to pull up more water than it needs to and induce some drought stress. And part of that equation is also heat. So if we have high heat on the plant surface, we need high CO2 to help basically increase the triggerity of those guard cells around the stomata and close it a little bit and regulate that, that transpiration rate. So you might see a little less transpiration, a little less drinking with the higher CO2 levels. But having a slightly elevated CO2 level above the minimum target range is oftentimes much, much better than being short on CO2. Because if you're short on CO2, you find yourself in a situation where the plant's pulling up all of this water, it's not able to utilize it as much for photosynthesis because it doesn't have CO2 to get carbon from to build sugar. And when that's happening, we're just losing efficiency.
Sian [00:04:34]:
So, yeah, short story long, wouldn't worry about it too much. And yeah, think about upping your light levels. And if you're doing that, you're also gonna need to up your EC levels most likely.
Kaisha [00:04:48]:
Well, we love it when the answer is don't worry about it too much. So shout out to Miles, thank you for dropping that follow up. Keep us posted. We love that. All right, we're gonna keep it moving. The live questions have started. We got this one. The real flava Dave on Instagram.
Kaisha [00:05:03]:
I love that handle. They write, how important is airflow? We've been using wall mounted oscillating fans, but we're battling microclimates in our room. Are Shaffer fans the way to go? What do y'all think?
Sian [00:05:16]:
Airflow is extremely important. You know, we want to try to maintain as much of a homogeneous environment as possible. And when you've got units that are situated in different parts of the rooms with exhaust, such as de Hues or air conditioning units, and then intakes and other parts of the rooms, naturally we're working with airflow across the space to achieve that climate control you're looking for. When anytime you're trying to do that in an indoor environment, there's going to be pockets of higher or lower airflow. And that's where the fans come in, is to try to even that out. And there are a few reasons that you want airflow. I mean, number one, that's helping, helping give us heat control over the plants. It helps reduce issues like mold because we're again, homogenizing that environment, not having these pockets of high humidity around.
Sian [00:06:01]:
That being said, there's quite a few different ways to approach it depending on how your room's initially built out. If you've got DE is mounted up on the ceiling in a corner, blowing out, having wall and Shaffer fans might help out quite a bit just to get a lot of that mixing going. I know personally, if I have a new room, I'm going to spec out. I prefer using more ducting, specifically soft ducting, because I can pull it down and clean it, but that allows me to get more even airflow across the room.
Seth [00:06:31]:
I think that's a great take on it. I was kind of thinking about when I upgraded to Schaefer fans. And the reason that I did so was, you know, I really was at a limit of where I could and how much ducting I could run in my room to really effectively bring homogenized airflow to the whole system. And, uh, Shaffer fans, by comparison to trying to figure out how I could accomplish that with soft ducting in the room that I had, were a really cost effective solution to be able to help that mixing problem and make sure I was getting a homogenized airflow in the room. And it really helped also kind of make sure that my temperature, my vpd, my relative humidity was a lot more homogenized throughout the canopy level as well, because that airflow was a lot more uniform throughout the room with the Shaffer fans in that small of a space versus when I was trying to use those wall mounted oscillating fans that, you know, back and forth, back and forth.
Sian [00:07:34]:
Yeah, nail it there. See, another thing I want to bring up with the Shaffer fans is it's also important to get that vertical mixing in the room because we do have a temperature gradient. Anytime that you have, you know, like laminar horizontal airflow, there should be warm air up top, cool air on the bottom. And also included in that gradient are issues like CO2 falling to the bottom of the room. So if we want to get that CO2 up to those plant leaves, often we're on top of a, you know, anywhere from a one foot to a three foot elevated table. Those leaves are way up at five or six feet in the air. We've got to get that air mixing happening in the room to make sure everything's even. Because when you look at like, let's say you even your right climate sensor, but any climate sensor you have out there or something like a humidistat, it's going to respond to the gradient that it's placed in.
Sian [00:08:22]:
So if you're trying to achieve humidity control, for instance, you want to make sure that the room is as homogenous as possible. Otherwise you might be treating for humidity at a very specific level. And let's say that your climate sensor for your control system is hanging a foot above your canopy. Well, that's not exactly where we're worried about the humidity. We want to control it in the canopy. And not having correct airflow means you might be sensing a much drier situation right above the canopy. So you're staring at your graph going like, hey, I'm at a 1.2 VPD. Why am I not getting the transpiration that I thought I would achieve here? Well, yeah, your room is at 1.2 VPD, but the canopy itself is not.
Sian [00:09:03]:
And oftentimes that's a result of just not having enough airflow in the room to really mix that air around and break that gradient.
Kaisha [00:09:14]:
Awesome, you guys, thank you for that overview. Airflow, super important, so the real flavor. Dave, good luck and keep us posted. All right, we got another live question here from Instagram. This is from Santa Buds. What's up, Santa Buds? They had a question. How do you work nitrogen after stretch towards the end? And also how do you work with calcium since the biggest source is calcium nitrate?
Sian [00:09:41]:
Yeah. So let's just Talk about kind of the effect there. When we're talking about nitrogen in most cannabis applications, we're talking about a calcium nitrate base to provide nitrogen. Fortunately for plant growth, nitrate is the best way to provide nitrogen to your plants. It gets the most in and produces the most growth. That being said, the plant also can't regulate nitrogen uptake very well through the root zone. So what ends up happening is we've got a actual nutrient signal to the plant that that nitrate will act similar to oxygen inside the plant and produce more and more vegetative growth and cell elongation. So if we're trying to time our nutrient application to, or tailor the nutrient application to the growth habits of the plant throughout the cycle, we want to drop things that are going to push new, fresh vegetative growth later on in flower.
Sian [00:10:30]:
It's been shown time and time again, especially with certain strains, that those plants really struggle at regulating that nitrogen uptake. They can't properly. Finish is the term we definitely use in cannabis. Right? We're looking at the ripeness of those trichomes. We want to see terpene and expression. And part of that is the plant needs to start focusing more energy into terpene and oil production and less into vegetative biomass production, AKA leaves and buds. So when pulling out nitrogen at the end, there are a few options out there. Most of them focus on replacing calcium nitrate with calcium chloride or calcium silicate I've seen used in a few situations.
Sian [00:11:09]:
Both are great. You just need to learn how to mix them. And what we're doing is just getting rid of that last vegetative push. But recognizing that cannabis is a very calcium hungry plant, it relies on calcium to do a lot of its other nutrient functions inside the plant. So lack of calcium becomes antagonistic. And completely removing the calcium usually tends to contribute highly towards things like bud rot toward the end of the cycle. So what we're usually looking to do is around week six or seven, really back off on that calcium nitrate, but keep the ppm of calcium in the solution just as high as it was before.
Seth [00:11:50]:
Not a whole lot to add to that. I mean, really, that's the long and short of it. Uh, you know, as you start to move towards finishing, you're really looking to kind of pull that calcium nitrate level down a little bit and replace. And, you know, a lot of the salt mixes that are out there today do just that. That's kind of the standard recipe. And a lot of them that I see out there swapping into a little bit more of A calcium chloride mix towards that end of your flowering spectrum.
Sian [00:12:26]:
Yeah, and that's why we see in some of the older formulations that existed pre commercial cannabis and then some of the more advanced ones. Now the single flower formula kind of came about as an easy way to approach commercial production because hey, that's been used with great success in many other commercial crops at large scale and simplifies the equipment requirements to irrigate thousands of plants. That being said, if we go ahead and look at most modern feed schedules, they are going back to a lower nitrogen ratio towards the end. And that is one way to approach it. One thing I like to do with, with any nutrient I'm looking at manufacturer, talk to them and see what they recommend for some of those plants. And you might find, you know, just changing that ratio up at the end and really backing off on the nitrate to the point where you know you have enough calcium but you're not overjoying. The nitrate really does help out quite a few strains. And if you haven't been running a higher EC the whole time, a lot of times we can kind of.
Sian [00:13:25]:
I'm not going to use the flush word, I guess because that's bad. Rinse that EC down a little bit over those last two weeks with a lower feed ec, especially if you have some root zone monitoring, you can start to see when that EC is spiking overnight right before your dry pack and watch that EC line. We can usually identify when the plant is starting to feed less and less because that EC stacking up much easier. The plant's just not pulling as much salt out. And that's when we can really start tailoring that two different strains and say, hey, right at this point we can see that it does not need this level of fertilizer anymore. We might be able to back it off a little bit, save a little money and just maintain that EC&PH out till harvest. That way we're not totally destroying the root zone right at the end.
Kaisha [00:14:13]:
Thank you guys so much for that. And I actually have another question that was posted that relates to this very topic. So let me go ahead and bring this in. And Santa buds, good luck. Thank you so much for your question. This one came from Dwayne. So they wrote. So it's understood now that nitrogen should be lower to remove for the last few weeks.
Kaisha [00:14:30]:
Are there any other changes that should be made lowering the ratios of other elements should magnesium sulfate, sulfur, et cetera remain at mid flower levels and ratios?
Sian [00:14:44]:
I'm going to say yes and no. We see plenty of good results without changing that. That being said, there are plant nutrition experts out there that would argue much harder than me that changing up those ratios is important at the end. One thing that's important to remember though, is we are putting plants, you know, even though coco looks like soil, this is generally a fully hydroponic system. We're controlling everything that we're giving to the plant. That being said, as that plant starts to senesce and slows down in that nutrient uptake, it's actually selectively uptaking what it needs. You know, and that's part of why we can stack up BC right, like we can put in more than the plants need. It can stack up in that solution and the plant's going to take out as much as it needs every day.
Sian [00:15:25]:
And we're just replenishing that greater stack in there to keep it in line. So as much as altering those ratios can help. And like I said, I am not the foremost expert on plant nutrition specifically. If everything else is in line with your environment, your irrigation strategy, you're maintaining pH again, the plant's going to take up what it needs and to really, really dial. Like, hey, what's it taking up? What's it not? And what would be the effect of cutting lower on certain ratios? Tough to say. I personally wouldn't experiment with it too much in a commercial setting. And that's why, you know, we're seeing a lot of growers out there adopting a little R and D room, you know, having a small, you know, one to two bench room, let's say 24 to 50 plants that you can easily test out something like this, especially if you can take the time to build out that room. So it really mimics the rest of your commercial environment.
Sian [00:16:19]:
You can start to play around with stuff like that without actually gambling a whole crops worth of quality on it.
Seth [00:16:28]:
Yeah, I mean, I would say I was kind of thinking a pretty similar thought about how that can be really overcomplicated at a certain point, trying to modulate some of those more specific nutrients in your feed towards the end. And I mean, could you. Sure, I'm sure you can make those calculations and, you know, start trying to, you know, dial specific nutrient compounds in that solution towards the end of your cycle to tailor it to runs. And maybe in a few years we'll start seeing that be a common practice. I don't know. But at the moment I would say that it could definitely be one of those situations where if you're trying to do that at scale, it can become a Little bit more confusing in the SOP realm for your guys than can be necessarily worthwhile in the end. But like Seth said, at smaller scales, you know, experiment when and where you have the space to. Because we'd love to know the answers if that does actually, you know, if there is a way to dial that more closely to be able to achieve better results.
Seth [00:17:39]:
That's. That's always what we're after.
Kaisha [00:17:45]:
All right, thank you guys for that. Dwayne, appreciate the question. Yeah, sometimes we got to just let the plant do what it does, right? All right, we're going to keep it moving. We got this question on Instagram. It's an interesting one, so I'm going to go for it. Mike DeGro420 wrote, I have a set of plants that have been put into flowers two weeks ago and they are not doing anything. What's your take? It's not very specific. What are some things maybe that Mike should be looking into?
Seth [00:18:14]:
That comes to my mind, which is a thing I had to deal with recently, which was realizing that my life cycle just was not operating the way that I thought it was. And all of a sudden I'm a few weeks further in than I should be, seeing plants that aren't flowering like I should have them be and not progressing in the same growth curve as I'm used to and sitting there scratching my head, wondering what on earth in this entire system isn't functioning the way it should be when I, you know, really just should have been double checking that light timer.
Sian [00:18:48]:
Yeah, that's the first one I'd say. I have certainly left home for a week and forgot to switch to 1212. And you know, in my harvest group in AROYA, per my recipe, I was supposed to be in 1212 and you know, I got home and it was not. So that's obviously, I think one of the first things to check one of the, I mean, by doing nothing, I guess my question would be like, you're two weeks in. Are they not growing? Are they not setting pistols and bracks? Like what, what, what is not doing anything mean when you say that? Because in my case of the one CN's talking about where we're looking at like we're not seeing the morphological differences in terms of leaf development, adding nodes, etc that we'd normally see when flipping a plant. It looks like they're just getting over vegged, which typically looks like, you know, longer inter nodal spacing, smaller branches, not building the same kind of wide branching structure that you're looking for. And that's probably a distinguishing factor if your plants are just not growing very much like you're expecting them to stretch. You know, one of the first things look at slight intensity and then root health.
Sian [00:19:58]:
You know, get in there and look around if you have rotten roots for a variety of possible factors. Those plants just won't grow because they don't have plumbing that's capable of getting water up to those leaves where the plant actually needs it. So check all those factors for sure. Usually the simplest problem is the solution when we're looking at these systems. You know, I don't know how many times we've worked or I've worked with growers that are just chasing their tail on something because it's a problem hitting them in the face every time, but it ends up being a small equipment issue. You know, one thing I ran into actually, unfortunately frequently out there is the fact that for many lighting timers, if there's a power interruption, they default to on. I can certainly say I've seen many a room where once we got aroya in there and had a few light sensors scattered around. We find out that like man, these things are hurting.
Sian [00:20:52]:
But oh, hey, go check the security camera overnight and there is one light that pops on for like a few hours or never turns off. And because everyone's diligent and good about not going into dark rooms, they just never caught it. And you know, go back and look at the security camera, it's like, hey, this might have been going on for six months and unfortunately it happens at 11pm when no one's here and when the lights shut off, that one's fine. And when they come back on, anytime anyone would be there to check it physically or you know, visually, there it that it's not on. So a few factors to just not rule out there. And you know, one thing I like to bring up is when you're dealing with like let's say some old house greenhouse, old school greenhouse growing in the fall, like going into the fall and winter age old trick that greenhouse growers, not just in cannabis have used to extend that photo period is just a string. You know, it used to be incandescent bulbs and they went to CFLs and now it's just screwing LEDs but stringing out small amounts of light that just basically keep the plant in photo period but don't actually contribute much photosynthetic energy. All they're able to do is keep the plant awake essentially and not interrupt that photoperiod.
Sian [00:22:03]:
So sometimes if you do have a light leak or light source in the room. Although it might not be, you know, anything approaching a grow light and it might not be causing at this point in the grow, crazy Herms. It could be enough light that your plants just aren't actually, you know, receiving that 12 hours of dark signal that they need.
Kaisha [00:22:25]:
We got some, we got a little, some insight here from our Gromy Gorski who wrote we all have hit that random button on our timer once before. It's confusing and detrimental to the grow, but easily fixed. But Mike DeGroard just posted a follow up here. This is the person with the original question. They wrote the timer is on schedule, 1212. Been that way for about three weeks.
Sian [00:22:48]:
So yeah, yeah, I wouldn't again, I would verify that it's actually hitting that 1212 and not turning on setup. Personally, I, I don't trust a lot of, I don't want to say I don't trust a lot of timers out there, but I do know a factor among many, many, many of them is they default to on if there's an interruption. Doesn't have to be a full system power interruption. It can be an internal issue. And then, yeah, other than that, light levels. What's your humidity doing? You know, if your humidity is at 75 to 85% for the first three weeks, those plants just aren't going to grow very much. They will probably start to flower at some point, but they're just not going to physically get very big because the plant's not pulling enough water through it to actually build that much tissue and grow. So that would be another.
Seth [00:23:33]:
I was going to say what's your, what are your dry backs look like? You know, I mean, are you achieving those overnight deltas that you're really looking for during that period of time? Because that can be another one of those factors. Like Seth said, if your humidity is pretty high, you're not transpiring enough over that photo period. You may well not be able to, you know, adequately use up that water. And then that can contribute to, you know, potentially some of those root health issues that we were talking about before too. So there's a lot of those little things that I would say, you know, double check and make sure to the light timer thing. You know, interestingly enough, I was, I'm running a checkerboard room, so I have two different light timers running two different parts of the lighting systems in my room. And, you know, sure enough, it was the one that I didn't look at as heavily. And Tagorsky's comment Man, yeah, we have all hit that random button on the light timer before.
Seth [00:24:29]:
That leaves it on a little bit longer than we were hoping. But man, when you find it, you're really excited that you're able to fix it. If you have caught that in time, that is.
Sian [00:24:41]:
Yeah. There's a reason many greenhouse growers still use old school mechanical light timers, especially for their 277/volt stuff. Because they're simple, they work. It's a physical switch with a spinning disc and a little trigger on it. Another thing to look for is just that general root health. You know, if you're hitting week three and your plants are just not growing, not doing much, go down. And this is a pretty crude drawing, but I like to get in there and just excavate. Show the red area.
Sian [00:25:14]:
If that blue is the stem coming up, I don't have a green marker. I don't know if it would show up very well on here. But I like to excavate right around this area about half an inch. Just pull it back with your fingers and start looking for any kind of little brown spots on the base of the plant to make sure that you don't have some crown rock going on right here. And then it's always a good idea, you know, if you're not. It depends on the pot size. If you're in like a three to a five gallon pot, this other thing might be hard to check. But for most of us that are growing in like 1 to 2 gallon coco bags, or if you happen to be in Rockwool or Rockwool slabs, also very easy to check.
Sian [00:25:48]:
You can just make a cut down here, an L shaped cut on the corner, pull this little flap back and see how your root penetration looks and how the tips of those roots look. If you're seeing any level of brown, there's brown squishy roots in there or no roots at all, then we could be looking at a root development issue. And that can be related to a variety of things. You know, some of it can be related to water contamination in your feed water. You've got one of a variety of different bacteria in there that can start to cause root rot, overwatering, just keeping it too wet too long and inducing some bacterial infection in the potential. And also, you know, when we're talking about Rockwool or coco, Rockwool tends to be a little more precise in manufacturing. That being said, I've seen many examples of both where they actually arrive to the grower. Not necessarily material bacterially contaminated or fungally contaminated.
Sian [00:26:46]:
But they do have like, let's say with the Rockwool, there have been batches over the years from various companies that have a problem with the wedding agent that they use for initial hydration. Sometimes you get a batch where the ph comes down at like 3.8 for that initial hydration. Well, it's gonna be hard to get a plant to root into that slab at 3.8 that needs to be, you know, rinsed out and corrected. And same thing with coco. You can get batches that come in at very low ph or very high ph. And with coco, specifically high levels of sodium. And if you're vegging in a pot like that, you don't necessarily get good root development all the time. And also in that time, it takes, you know, weeks and weeks sometimes to apply enough actual irrigation volume to flush out that sodium and start to correct the PH in that pot.
Sian [00:27:32]:
So ever check everything, I guess is the sad answer there, from your lights to your roots. And really that, you know, get a broad enough picture to find the inconsistency there because there's clearly something going on. And sometimes that involves also chasing it back into the bedroom. You know, if you do identify that, hey, we've got some root issues. Okay, well, is that was that point of infection in the flower room, or did these plants get severely over watered in a veg room that's dirty? There could be quite a quite a few issues there along the line. And some issues too, like hops Layton, when you have high viral loads of that, there is a period where, you know, we've all seen the horror story pictures of like tiny leaves and right angled branches. But part of hops Latent and why it's called latent, it's not the only latent viroid in plants is that it does not express itself at all until partial part of the way through that flower cycle. And most growers that I know that you know, have HLVD sneak up in their populations typically start to notice smaller plants and poor, you know, poor run performance as a part of that discovery process until they start to notice those right angle branches and small misformed leaves.
Sian [00:28:49]:
And that's, that's just hlvd. Again, there are other latent virus out there.
Kaisha [00:28:55]:
I mean, y'all gave them a great checklist for things to look through. So thank you for that. And to our grummy. Who dropped this question, Mike. Wait a minute. Yep. Mike the grower, who apparently. Oh, wait, no, this is somebody else.
Kaisha [00:29:10]:
Mike the grower. Thank you for your question, but we Also have the real flavor. Dave, who asked a question earlier. They are watching Office Hours on their honeymoon. So wishing you a lifetime of happiness, but also some really happy, healthy plants. Very cool. All right, you guys, we're going to keep it moving. We're going to move on to vpd.
Kaisha [00:29:25]:
I just got a question here, and we have another one that digs into this in a little bit more detail. But this is a question dropped by Jake on Instagram. They want to know, is it important to chase VPD numbers, or should you just let the environment do what it does?
Sian [00:29:41]:
Uh, I mean, chase the number for sure. Uh, that VPD is, you know, where it's really a good way to analyze that balance between temperature and humidity. And what we ultimately get out of that is understanding what it's like, how dry it is on the leaf surface, and how much suction the atmosphere is pulling on the plant. So if you think of a plant like a straw, there's always going to be some suction, capillary action going up through it. How hard is the atmosphere pulling that up through? And also understanding that when the VPD in the environment changes that vapor pressure deficit, the plant has to put energy into adjusting to that vapor pressure deficit. So as it gets drier and drier and drier. For instance, after we hit a point of usually around 1.4 or 1.5, going above that. And that also is going to be dependent on what type of lighting you use, because ultimately, we're looking for a leaf VPD closer to that 1.2, 1.3.
Sian [00:30:38]:
But Air VPD is what we can measure easily. So that's why we'll get 1.2 to 1.4 as a general rule of thumb, until we get leaf surface temp involved. But more important even than hitting that exact value is maintaining a tight dead band. Uh, because like I said, when that VPD number goes up and down, that plant's putting energy into opening and closing its stomata, and it has to burn sugar to do that. We want that plant to use as much of that sugar that it's creating to build cellulose, build tissue, and produce more buds for us. So, you know, I've seen, personally seen many examples where if we have a. Let me just make a little drawing here, and I'm gonna have to get a green marker for the next time. Let's just say we've got 1.4, or we'll go 1.6 up here, 0.8 down here.
Sian [00:31:32]:
Here is our 1.3 perfection that we're Looking for this red will be the vpd. But if the dead band is going, let's say from 1.6 down to 0.8 back up, and it's bouncing like that every hour. What we know is that Inside of this 1.4 and 1.2 line is where we want to be for efficiency. So if I extend that line out, red line represents VPD black lines, obviously the graph. We've got our scale over here. Anytime I'm outside of this blue line, I'm outside of peak transpirational efficiency. Whether I am putting the plant into drought response stress, where it's really tightening up those stomata and slowing down that water use, so it can use a lot more that wind deficiency to cool itself. And then on the other end, we're looking at, hey, the humidity is too low.
Sian [00:32:45]:
There's not enough suction in the atmosphere to get that optimization optimal transpiration. So cumulatively, over time, if I look at how much time I spent outside of this range, oftentimes we'll find that it adds up to like 20 to 40 days of an entire flower cycle. And if that's the case, a lot of times we're seeing quite a big, quite a bit of a yield difference, genetics depending, some are less sensitive. But if you've spent, you know, 30% of that plant's flower cycle outside of optimal range, you're not necessarily going to see a 30% yield reduction. But there is a noticeable impact in maintaining tight dead bands versus wide dead bands with vpd. And VPD also is a tool we use to balance where we're going to start to see things like mold infection. You know, when we, when you go below a certain temperature, usually about 70 degrees, between 50, 55 and 70, a lot of molds proliferate. However, they can only do that if there's enough available moisture in the air and this thing they're trying to grow on.
Sian [00:33:47]:
Well, if we can maintain one of those parameters like humidity, we can do that pretty easily. Now, the balance there, though, even with fungus, is that using that vapor pressure deficit, we can make a choice at a choice as to what that actual humidity needs to be at a specific temperature. So as that temperature gets lower, the potential for the air to hold humidity goes down. So it becomes the relative humidity goes up because we still have the same, absolute same amount of water in the air, right? And if you drop the temperature too fast, that water is going to fall out of the air. We don't want the plants to get wet. But also at that lower VPD range, lower temp, higher humidity. That's where you see mold proliferate a lot. And you can use VPD.
Sian [00:34:31]:
Generally, 1.0 is the rule I draw, which is, you know, at 65, around 60. Oh, 1.0 is not 60%. It's still lower humidity, 50 to 55. But if you're seeing, you know, if you don't have access to easy VPD, if you're at 65 degrees overnight and you're going above 60% humidity, there's a good chance you're going to start to see mold. And that's part of why we use VPD as that balancing line. Because when you're using relative humidity, that RH is always relative, and it. The effective number you want is going to change quite a bit depending on that temperature. And we always have, you know, what the set points are and then what's actually happening in the room.
Sian [00:35:15]:
And you always want to go make sure that your set points are being achieved. And that's the other side of this is oftentimes you'll find, like, right now I have my dehumidifier set at 40% to try to get me through the nights in my little room, and it can get it down to about 48. Even though that set points at 40, it just gets what, guess what? It never turns it off. If I didn't have some other environmental monitoring, I might find that, like, if I was. Had it set for 40, but I was only hitting 65 at night, you know, I might be baffled as to why it's molding. Like, surely this is going to hit that set point. Like, no, if your dehumidifier is running, you're. You're above what that set point is and most basic control systems.
Sian [00:35:57]:
And that excludes, like, some of the smart ones. What I'm talking about is having a dehumidifier with a humidistat on your wall, which is where a lot of us started, you're just not going to be able to or you're not actually hitting the set points you hope you are. So you always want to go make sure that that's actually the case as well.
Seth [00:36:14]:
Man. Even with some of the control systems out there, I'd say that that's still a huge issue. You know what I mean? Making sure that what you're seeing in reality is actually matching the dead bands your sensor is sensing and being able to make sure that you understand the relative difference that you're going to see between those pieces of equipment. Because not everyone's equipment is going to be calibrated the exact same. And man, that's just one of those things, kind of like we were touching on earlier, double checking all of those little parts and pieces that go into the system because, you know, there's so often that we find, you know, especially, I'll be first to admit, I find those mistakes made by me on a regular basis. So it's one of those things where, you know, I really encourage people to double check as well because, you know, no one should be too proud to make sure that you did it just the way you thought you did.
Sian [00:37:11]:
Oh yeah, my own grow. I'm, I'm lazy. I've lately, this last run been not putting in nighttime set points for my humidity. It's like, let it run. It's going to be what it's going to be. And that's exactly not what you want to do. Uh, and I like the plants I'm playing on that room now look great. However, they're a lot smaller than they could be had.
Sian [00:37:30]:
I maintained that VPD range throughout the day. You know, looking back in my last run without adjusting those set points, I ended up being out of range on vpd, mostly on the high end, which was not beneficial for probably about 18 days in my grow at this point. And what that means is for that amount of time, my plants just were not efficiently producing biomass or oil. And like I said, that's, I think one of the values of data logging in general, however you can get it, is collecting that data long term and really starting to quantify how much these little tweaks have an impact on the entire flower cycle. That's, that's a lot of that last, you know, 10 of polishing to get 50 of your yield that we talk about.
Kaisha [00:38:17]:
Great. Oh yeah, Go.
Seth [00:38:19]:
Was just going to follow up with man to circle back on your VPD question. Absolutely. Chase. That vpd. It's. It is a critical metric for making sure that your plant is breathing, basically is the best way to put it. And it's a great way to double check those temperature and humidity metrics that you're using to try and modulate that vapor pressure deficit. It so absolutely.
Seth [00:38:48]:
Jason.
Kaisha [00:38:48]:
Yeah, we are very into VPD around here. We dropped in the chat link to our education guide on vpd and then we also have a VPD calculator. So please use those resources. We are here to support y'all. But that's a perfect segue into this next question. A little bit more specific. We got this from Dino Food on Instagram. They Wrote, how does high transpiration, or VPD of 1.4 plus affect nitrogen uptake? My last run, I kept a higher BPD and noticed dark leaves with clawing at the tips.
Kaisha [00:39:19]:
Also struggled with low runoff pH and high runoff EC. Even with 25% runoff, I was seeing runoff EC3 + points over my input daily. Are the plants over transpiring and absorbing an imbalance of nutrients for that reason? What do you guys think?
Sian [00:39:36]:
So as far as absorbing an imbalance of nutrients, you'd want some tissue test tissue analysis over time to really nail down that as far as that 1.4 plus effect, that's where we see the leaves start to go into drought stress a little bit like we were talking about earlier, where the stomata actually start to close and slow down transpiration. That being said, if you don't have enough CO2 in the environment for those stomata to do that efficiently, they won't close as much as they should. And that's when we actually will get that over transpiration, where that water's going through the plant and the plant's not actually using as much of it as it should should to be able to build sugar and tissue. So in terms of nitrogen uptake, it can slow it down a little bit. And when you're seeing the clang on the tip of the leaf, a lot of times that is a symptom of high nitrate levels. Is it a sign of toxicity? That is entirely up to debate. Because I have seen many, many, many plants, thousands in fact, thousands and thousands with downturn leaf tips from high nitrate levels, dark leaves early on, especially during stretch and beginning bulking. And then when we back off on that nitrate, they snap out of that.
Sian [00:40:45]:
Now, when I flip those leaves over and look with my magnifying glass or loop, the stomata look great on those leaves. Leaf edges, all the leaf margin areas are perfectly healthy, lush, not crispy or tacoed in at all. And that's really what you want to look for when you have that high VPD situation. Because if you have a high VPD in the room and really high light intensity, the actual VPD on that leaf surface can be quite high. And plants can adapt. You know, if we're running a really high VPD, let's say like 1.6 to 1.9, even up to like 2.4 for most of the plants, life cycle even go back into veg. What we'll see is smaller leaves on the plant. They actually develop thicker tissue.
Sian [00:41:27]:
The leaves are noticeably thicker if you rub them between your fingers, they have a waxy surface, almost. Not quite like a cactus, but they're fairly waxy. And that's a. That's an adaptation to actually deal with that high vpd. And then those leaves also develop smaller stomata, so the plant can adapt. That being said, you know, with a plant run in those kind of situations, a lot of times we're looking at like 50 to 60% of the yield that we're able to achieve. In a different scenario, sometimes the. The bud that comes out of those runs does look really interesting and cool.
Sian [00:42:02]:
I've heard a lot of people refer to it as the pebbles. And I mean, that's what it is. Little, little rock buds that generally turn out pretty good. They're not moldy because it was so dry when you were growing them, but it's also not optimal to be running up in that higher range. So, you know, one thing I've run into quite a bit, and I know CN actually has at his place as well, is actually getting that humidity up early in flower when your plants are small. And the ability to maintain a consistent humidity when those plants are young also really, really influences the final form that they take at the end of stretch.
Seth [00:42:39]:
Absolutely. I was just going to say, you know, having to realize at one point, by tracking my vpdo, you know, I really need to maybe add in a second humidifier to this room so that I can actually control that adequately at the beginning of this plant's life cycle. And, I mean, as soon as I'm into my flower ST stage, that's getting changed. But those first few weeks, if I'm not keeping that humidity at a level that the plant really can use, and that makes the transpiration effect work, that can be really rough.
Sian [00:43:15]:
Yeah, look at this question, too. You know, even with the high runoff, when you're seeing EC above, what your daily input is, you know, conventional, was when the plant's not feeding, I would love to have a substrate sensor in there to see what the EC does throughout the day as that plant's drying back and kind of figure out if that plant's reading or feeding in an irregular way. And oftentimes, if it's feeding in an irregular way, that's generally related to ph. And what I often find is when I'm running into a low runoff PH situation that, you know, usually is when I've been running like, let's say a 3.0, and restricting EC to try to build up, or restricting runoff to try to build up that eclipse. Let me see here. You didn't provide was your input ec. And again, seeing that substrate ec because if you've got a low substrate EC as that plant feeds throughout the day, it's going to pull that PH down very quickly. Whereas if you're able to feed at a higher ec, oftentimes you can stack up more salt in the substrate.
Sian [00:44:23]:
And if you have a higher amount of salt for the plant to pull out of or ion specifically more or more specifically for for the plant to pull out, pulling out more and more negative ions. If you have more total ions, you're not altering that positive and negative ratio nearly as much. And like I said, often we see like plants that are run in the like 3 to 4 range is as high as they've been able to stack it up healthily, will see a much quicker shifting pH. You know, like usually if I have, if I can get my plants stacked up under a thousand to eleven hundred ppfd, feeding out a three, zero or a three, five, I might see that at ph difference from input to runoff be, you know, input 5960, runoff, ph 5657. That's usually pretty typical of a healthy feeding plant. Now if I restrict that runoff, I might see that, hey, three or four days later when I try to get that, that runoff ph is way down at 5.4, 5.2 or if it drops below 5.0, 5.1, that's when we see serious deficiency across the board. So all of those factors are important to keep in mind. Um, any one of them can definitely affect plant health quite a bit.
Sian [00:45:38]:
As far as high P VPD and feeding, though, the high VPD is usually more of an efficiency issue than than than a feeding issue. As like I said, when the plants in that situation, it's generally using that water to cool itself more than it is to photosynthesize. So right back to the VPD question from earlier. That's part of why we want to keep it in that optimal range.
Kaisha [00:46:00]:
Yeah, I feel like this, the theme for this episode is really just kind of like crop uniformity. I love it. These questions have been awesome, so thank you all for asking them. I'm going to move on to this one from mighty mouse on YouTube. Feels very much on topic. They write, is there a specific danger zone outright for humidity if our low temps are beyond our control?
Sian [00:46:21]:
By beyond your control meaning you can't control how low it gets, like an unheated greenhouse.
Kaisha [00:46:28]:
Guessing that must be what's happening.
Sian [00:46:30]:
I'm going to assume that if you can't control the temps, then your only option to control humidity would be a dehumidifier of some sort. Right. Part of the problem though, with that is the efficiency of your, the ability of your dehumidifier to efficiently pull moisture out of the air also depends on the temperature because dehumidifiers work by heating air, blowing them out and cooling off. If that dehumidifier has to work harder to heat that air up a certain amount to be able to pull that humidity out, they're not going to be able to do their job. And, you know, that's part of why we see, you know, some fancy things like reheat systems where we've got a, a dehumidifier feeding an air conditioner sometimes, or a heater feeding an air conditioner. But the reality in a situation where you don't have a whole lot of temperature control, sadly, is that burning gas inside your greenhouse and increasing that temperature is usually the most efficient way to actually deal with that humidity issue. If those temps are going down, you know, uncontrollably at night, especially coming into this time of year in the fall, at least in the northern hemisphere here, you're probably going to start hitting dew points on the inside of your greenhouse or grow room. And at that point, if it starts raining inside of your grow space and your buds get wet, they're going to mold, not just Botrytis, but most likely Aspergillus as well.
Sian [00:47:54]:
So at that point I would probably start, you know, in any kind of greenhouse growing, whether it's cucumbers, tomatoes or cannabis. One thing we talk about is seasonal yield depressions based on, hey, there's different times of the year where we have to pull more air through the greenhouse. We can't get the CO2 up. Very difficult to control the temperature sometimes mid summer, or get that temperature up in the winter like we're talking about here. And that might be one of those situations where you start to look at how do I make my investments the most cost effective. And if you can't control nighttime temps later on, there's a couple options. Pull your crop earlier. If you're a full term grower, start looking at strains that will ripen up better for you.
Sian [00:48:38]:
You know, rather than second week, October 3rd, week of September, that same situation, adding a light depth routine to try to shorten your run up and get it in earlier in the fall. My vote is, at least in my greenhouse growing experience, I close everything up and crank the heaters. Take advantage of the fact that I'm Bringing some gas, get some CO2, get some heat in there. A couple degrees of heat control can influence VPD in a very, very large way. You know, I've growers that I work with that have actually kind of figured out a fun trick in dealing with their. Their VPD limitations or their dehumidification limitations. We've been able to dial it to where they can actually bring the temperature down, not all the way to 65. In the room.
Sian [00:49:23]:
We can go, hey, at 65, you're at 63% humidity. That's not okay. We're probably gonna be seeing some bud rot, some different issues. What we found, though, is a nice little handy dandy like trick. Taking it down to only 68 completely solved the VPD issues. That put them from, you know, 0.9 up to 1.1. Just 3 degrees difference. That was perfect.
Sian [00:49:44]:
What else happened? Increased airflow in the room, and now we actually got a plant surface temp of 65 instead of 68, just because we have that transpirational heat loss or evaporative heat loss when the wind blows across the plants. So keep in mind that, like, you know, there are some pretty hard rules. And, you know, when I look at having those limitations, if you're at a point where the difference is failed crop versus not failed crop, we're talking about cannabis. Usually that just means adjusting a little bit of your budget to try to throw it at that particular problem. Or again, looking at your seasonal limitations on the actual growing setup, like around here where we're at in the Northwest. I cannot run a greenhouse this time of year without a heater. If I want to grow something like cannabis, everything else is going to mold. If I don't have a heater, I'm getting out some straw bales, and I can, like, store fruit cuttings or, like, fruit tree cuttings and all kinds of other stuff in there for the winter.
Sian [00:50:42]:
But without the heat control, it's going to rain in there pretty much every night from now until next July.
Kaisha [00:50:54]:
Go for it. Sienna, did you have something else you wanted to say?
Seth [00:51:00]:
Yeah, I was just thinking, you know, why do you think it's totally out of your control? Because even a little bit of control over those temps and those humidities will help modulate that issue for you. Even if it's not something that you're, you know, getting all the results that you want out of, at least if you're pushing, you know, to try and solve that issue in some way, shape or form, you may be, you know, helping mitigate how much damage that might be causing to your crop.
Sian [00:51:34]:
Yeah, and there's some, you know, even outside stuff you don't often see in cannabis. But there are some pretty old school greenhouse hacks to deal with some of this. You know, a popular, a thing that used to be fairly popular in like floriculture industry, especially with, you know, tunnel houses and things like that, having large black water tanks that heat up in the sun throughout the day and then you circulate that water or you know, underneath your benches at night, getting thermal mass in and out of the building. There's, there's actually some really interesting passive ways to approach some environmental control. And a lot of them are, well, not a lot of them, but some of them happen to be fairly low cost. You know, if you're limited on what you can actually get at the location, go out and do some reading. You know, there's, there's a lot of low tech solutions that are certainly limited seasonally sometimes. But right back to talking about the string of screw and light bulbs to extend your photo period.
Sian [00:52:26]:
Sometimes there are simple solutions to get you by.
Kaisha [00:52:31]:
Right on, you guys. Thank you for that, Mighty Mouse. Good luck. All right, we got a couple more, more questions we got dropped. I want to try to get to those before the end of the show. This came in from Swishes and Dosha on Instagram. They are looking for recommendations on dealing with rice root aphids. And I'm sure you guys have dealt with those.
Sian [00:52:56]:
Pyrethrins. I mean, we're talking about root aphids, any kind of root aphid. There's basically one thing that comes to mind. Number one, don't ever bring soil or media into your grow. Start there, really hammer down on your biosecurity, learn from the fact that you got them and don't do that again. If I'm going to go bring cuts into my space, you know, we can't all go to the facility and get our own cuts. But I will ask for unrooted cuts because I can dunk, sanitize, recut those and make sure that I'm not introducing any pests or pathogens into my environment. Obviously, short of getting them thyroid tested and quarantining them that way.
Sian [00:53:40]:
And a quarantine is a good idea. But beyond that, things like pyrethrin, drenches, Beauveria bassiana, and really nailing down your biosecurity protocols. I know in my experience dealing with root aphids, the end result was to finally make the call. We were going to quarantine Some things and nuke out the moment room because guess what, that was the only part of the facility we could never empty out and clean. And that's where they were harboring, they were surviving in there because the room was never fully empty. We'd take some plants out here and there, do some root trenches, all that normal stuff. But you've got to isolate and have strong biosecurity protocols. So when you're dealing with something like that, number one, go look for the source of the infection.
Sian [00:54:24]:
Oftentimes it's the moms as they're again in the facility the longest and that room's never empty. And then, you know, being able to go, okay, we've nuked that room out. Next part of the process, veg room. Not everyone can empty their whole bedroom at once. That's going to be a challenge. But that's what you probably need to do. And then you're not going to abandon your current flower crops because you have root aphids. Not many people can take that kind of financial hit.
Sian [00:54:50]:
But having very hard biosecurity protocols where, you know, top down, I don't care if you are the document, if you're the fertigation lead, the head grower, whatever, if you have been in a certain room, you never go into a younger room, period. And then also, you know, have biosecurity just devices around ppe, you know, make sure people are swapping things out, make sure, you know, you're saving those high pest pressure rooms for the last room visited of the day and get everyone in the facility on board with the fact that like, hey, I know, I know you're our maintenance guy. You really want to go into this room to work on this fan in the morning, that's going to be easier for you, but like, you can't do that. You're going to find something else to do for the next four hours until you can go in there last and then you can go home. You're not allowed to go anywhere else in the facility and I think that's kind of the hardest thing to really get around to because a lot of different cannabis growing facilities are, you know, there's a good amount of very large scale ones out there at this point, but there are just a massive amount that are firmly in the small business category where they have like less than 20 employees and maybe only like 5 to 10 people in cultivation. So, you know, for me that means two good but conflicting things. The good part is oftentimes you like, you have a better sense of community Good team building and you're able to make your people very multi talented inside of their job. Right.
Sian [00:56:21]:
Like you can if you only have 10 people on cultivation, give it a year or two. And almost everyone's kind of a jack of all trades because there's been people out like everyone's been working closely together solving these problems, which is awesome. But that also makes it really easy for oh, like Jason. I worked at the same spot years ago. Makes it really easy for me to text Jason and be like, hey, I want to go home early. Can you just check my room? When hey, he's responsible. You got to say like no, don't you remember? Like we got rude aphids in there. No one's going in there until like you're, you're, you're the, you're the infected one for the day.
Sian [00:56:59]:
You get to go in there and go home, you know, and that's. That sometimes is kind of difficult when you have a small crew of people who are all motivated, work together. Everyone likes getting everything done and helping each other out and, and yeah, at the end of the day at the root, aphids, biosecurity, pyrethrins are always good. Bavaria bassiana, another one. Anything that you're doing a root drench with, be careful with your runoff. You want to make sure you've got either safely disposing it into the sewer or you have good biorem remediation ponds, etc. Some of those types of treatments are things that will get you in trouble down the road if they happen to run off into the ditch in front of your feet facility.
Seth [00:57:40]:
Yeah, I mean I was just thinking for now, one, isolate your affected plants. Two, maybe beneficial nematodes. Three, apply insecticidal soaps as a soil drench. Like Seth said, you know, do your root drenches and yeah from there pyrethrins. Keep your soil well drained and make sure you're drying back fully so that you don't over wet and potentially, you know, invite them back in. And as much as you can, man, tighten down those IPM strategies, strategies, regimens and your ability to try and you know, separate the spaces because those things move quickly and it is no fun trying to battle them once they're entrenched.
Sian [00:58:23]:
Yeah, and you know, I mean also I think a part of it is a good thing to bring up here as we, I've said it a few times on the show, it's integrated pest management, not integrated pest extermination. So have that mindset that like hey, we're you know, we're going to turn things around biosecurity wise and be harder on IPM and learn from this. But it's okay to have a little trauma and be very proactive about RUD aphids for quite a long time. You know, work at making that like a greater part of your IPM program now that you've identified like, hey, they can come in. Yes, we're going to tighten everything up on, you know, why did they even end up here. But in the meantime you're really gonna have to focus on that biosecurity and long term probably continuing those practices for two to three times as long as what might seem like you need to be doing.
Kaisha [00:59:15]:
That's right y'all. We are all about being proactive Integrated pest management. We have an article on our education guides just for you on that. We're going to be dropping that in the chat. And then our Gromy Gorski co signed, wrote hopefully if you have a good facility, you have new scrubs in a shower if you want to change rooms. Standard PPE is a new set of scrubs each room. So be proactive, it's worth it.
Sian [00:59:37]:
And I will say if you run a size, a sizable facility or even a small one, Gorski here is saying like locker rooms are a huge one. If you can get people to have a really solid separation between work close and not at work close, that's huge. And as an employer you kind of have to provide the space for them to be able to do that and do it comfortably and safely and then yeah, providing the ppe, there's costs that, that we don't necessarily all want to have to incur during this, but especially if you've seen the kind of damage something like a big, a bad root aphid infestation can do to a facility, pretty quickly it becomes obvious that like hey, these little measures of biosecurity actually make a pretty huge difference because especially when we're talking about, you know, cannabis related pests, there's a lot of inner. There's a lot of overlap between pests and almost every other form of agriculture and cannabis. However, not all cannabis growers are in heavily culture or heavily cultivated areas for other things. You know, if we're looking at like where Acacia lives in the Bay Area, if I talk to someone there that has, you know, two spotted aphids or some cannabis aphids, it's like that didn't just wander in that came in on someone's shirt or you know, from their home. Grow a lot of times when we're talking about cannabis growers, because a lot of us are passionate and grow at home too. So that's why sometimes, you know, you just have to like, again, the investment in the locker room, the air, showers, scrubs, right down to buying your employees shoes and just saying, hey, these come in the facility in a box and they never leave the facility, ever.
Sian [01:01:13]:
Only in a trash bag did they leave here.
Seth [01:01:15]:
I've seen some of the most interesting.
Sian [01:01:18]:
Collections of Crocs, I was gonna say.
Seth [01:01:22]:
And it's great. You get new, interesting patterns every time you go to a new place. It's awesome.
Kaisha [01:01:28]:
Better safe than sorry. And if you can throw some fashion into it. Bonus. Look at that. All right, y'all. Well, on that note, shout out. Thank you so much, Cecine and producer Chris for another great episode. Thank you all.
Kaisha [01:01:40]:
Thank you guys so much for joining for this week's Aurora office hours. So many great questions. Just a reminder, Arroya is bringing precision substrate irrigation management to MJ bizcon. You can scan the QR code right next to Seth if you want to sign up and get some more details. Screenshot it. Check us out later. We also dropped the website in our chat. We would love to see you in Vegas.
Kaisha [01:01:59]:
And don't forget we are nominated for Cultivation Software of the Year, the MJ Awards. We would love for you to vote for us once per day until November 16th. And we thank you guys so much for your support. To learn more about Arroya, book a demo at Arroya IO. Our team would be happy to show you the ins and outs of the ultimate cannabis cultivation platform. If you have any crop steering or cultivation questions you want us to cover, drop them anytime in the Arroy app. Email us at salesaroya IO. Send us a DM on Instagram, Facebook or LinkedIn.
Kaisha [01:02:26]:
We definitely want to hear from you. And if you're a fan of the pod, please leave us a review on Spotify, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, or wherever you listen to your podcast. We appreciate your feedback and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you never miss an episode. Thanks, y'all. See it at episode 122. Bye.