Hall Of Fame Angler Keith Kavajecz

Keith shares some very insightful thoughts on the future of Walleye tournaments, and the fishing industry. 

What is Reel Talk Fishing | With No Limits?

I'm Brian Bashore, Professional walleye angler and owner of The Walleye Guys Guide service. I am here to reel you in with captivating stories, expert tips, and interviews with some of the biggest names in the fishing community. So, sit back, relax, and let the drag scream!

Brian Bashore (00:02.07)
Hey folks, welcome back. took a little hiatus and we are back from North Dakota and all the tournaments and the guiding and just taking a little time off, spend with the family here at home. But we are back at it with another podcast. And today I've been saving this one up. We've got a couple of good ones coming up, but we are bringing to you the man that really doesn't need any introduction, but I'm going to give you one anyway. Hall of Fame Angler.

Keith Kavias, he's got to break down his 2024 season. What we got coming up in 2025. Talk a little Florida fishing, industry things, just all things fishing. Keith is a fishing guru. Guy loves to fish, spends more time in the water than just about anybody. A living legend. A lot of heroes to lot of that wall anglers out there. Just a hell of a good dude and a fishing fanatic. And just trust me, stay tuned. Cause you're to want to hear this one from Keith Kavias.

Brian Bashore (00:01.622)
Hey folks, thanks for tuning into another episode of real talk fishing with no limits today. We are joined by a legend, a hall of famer. This man needs no introduction, but I'm to give him one anyway, because he deserves it. He is an educator, innovator, a living legend has inspired so many anglers out there, such as myself to jump on and fishies these national tours and just, just to go fishing. I don't care what species is Chris or Keith is a

fishing freak fanatic and the guys on the water, probably more days than most people in this country already cheered. So, with that said, Mr. Keith Kavias, how is it going today? I'm a friend. I am outstanding. Thank you for joining us. It's a, I said, I and Gary's, I heard him say this several times too, that nobody fishes more than Keith does. It just loves it.

KK (00:37.494)
Good, Brian, how are you?

KK (00:48.898)
I do like to fish.

Brian Bashore (00:52.344)
You do it. And when you made the little move to Florida a few years back, spending the winters down there and that just, keeps you fishing probably 300 plus days a year, I suppose then.

KK (01:01.99)
I take a little gap in between to go a little ice fishing, a couple three weeks of that and then down to Florida for about three months, four months. No, fishing's always good down there as long as the wind ain't blowing too bad.

Brian Bashore (01:10.358)
That can't that can't suck so.

Yeah, very familiar with the, wind being a decoding. and as you are being a touring pro, you could have turned pro. This had a good season, fished full circuit this year, 2024, good season. thank you, Bob 15 anger of the year, maybe somewhere in there. If team a little, got another shot to move up some more. I don't know. gonna be tough to catch those top five guys.

KK (01:32.406)
Right now,

KK (01:41.506)
Almost impossible with the way they do. There's only 40 points spread, so you can't. I think I'm more than 40 behind. I don't even look because I knew I was far enough down. I think it's only four or five guys that are really in any kind of contention. So good for them. I'm just glad I made it. It was my first year of fishing solo. I didn't have a team this year, so kind of different trying to cover the big waters we had this year. But I did pick fishing this year because most of the places we were at.

Brian Bashore (01:43.264)
Almost right.

KK (02:11.424)
Replaces I fish quite often so I did have some past knowledge at least to get me started

Brian Bashore (02:17.976)
Yeah, I think saying you have some past knowledge might be just a little bit, a little bit of experience out there on those waters and did good. Cause I mean, making even that top 40 now, nowadays is, it's not easy. It's a, it's a field of hammers out there.

KK (02:29.793)
No.

No, it's very hard and especially with, you know, Green Bay kind of messed up some of the guys that, you know, maybe made it. But so I don't like that rule either. But, you know, it is what it is. Same for everybody. So now, like I said, I just glad I was kind of my primary goal for the year to make it. And I had a lot of decent finishes, not anything great, but a lot of decent finishes. And so I didn't have to worry too much going into Sakaka. We as that was a good thing.

Brian Bashore (02:37.208)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (02:58.616)
Yeah, I've looked over and talking to Bala, if you just can bring a limit of fish in every day, you don't need to cash a check. You're going to make the top 40 typically.

KK (03:06.284)
Typically, typically. Yeah. Yeah. I would say so. mean, especially since some of the bites weren't that fantastic, you know, well, especially that was a real. And then Sakaka wheel and, know, having way more boats than I ever expected we'd have out there. Put some spread in points too. yeah, glad I was in a good position because that was a tournament where a guy could really make up or lose a lot of, a lot of ground.

Brian Bashore (03:13.344)
Yeah, especially green, but that was something else.

Brian Bashore (03:31.352)
Yep, that the turnout was a little better than anticipated there. A lot of locals got in. It's just a fun place to fish. was like, you know, Missouri River, everybody loves fishing Missouri River. So it draws, draws a crowd. But you're moving on to the championship at Lake Huron.

KK (03:37.622)
What else? What else?

KK (03:46.071)
Right on.

Brian Bashore (03:47.776)
Any experience out there?

KK (03:49.41)
Well, I mean, it's in an area that we've never launched out of Oscoda. You know, we've had tournaments down in Augre. We had a PWT championship back in, think, 94 or something like that, right out of our gray, right this time of year. Unfortunately, back then I thought I was smart enough. I didn't have to take notes on everything, keep waypointing, right? Just remember them. But unlike now where I keep notes on every tournament, I'll have to play a little bit by ear. And it's also an area where

You know, fishing Sault Ste. Marie, we've run down to like Rogers City, which is north of here. So I mean, you know, we haven't fished specifically out of Oscoda, but we have fished that area. Not necessarily this time of year, though.

Brian Bashore (04:31.34)
What can people expect? I never even been up there outside of the Saginaw Bay tournament and I didn't go clear up there by all means, but or did I ever?

KK (04:40.475)
The fishing in Saginaw has been getting better and better for big fish in the last four or five, ten years now. So obviously finding big fish will be important. This time of year, it's a transitional time of year. The only thing that maybe is going in our favor a little bit is that it was warmer water this year than most years. So maybe they won't have started their migration. Because if they've started their migration from up north down to Saginaw Bay,

Brian Bashore (04:43.906)
Mm

KK (05:05.519)
They could move daily, so it might be hard to keep up with them. It might be hard to find them or find them one day and not the next day, things like that.

Brian Bashore (05:14.124)
Yeah, that seems to be the story all year. They're just been moving because of these weird non -stable weather patterns, guess I would say early ice off, but then it didn't get warm. didn't get really hot, hot until after the fourth. And now we're on a cool down now. But then again, this weekend's coming, you know, back to nineties, I was out yesterday and water temperatures haven't changed much and fish finally are kind of where they're supposed to be. would say, but who knows how long that's going to last.

KK (05:20.161)
Mm

KK (05:25.409)
Right.

KK (05:36.458)
Yeah. And I can't say I know where they're supposed to be in Michigan. So it's going to be a matter of getting, you know, graphing a lot. And thankfully they're big enough fish. Maybe some will be suspended there for should be, you know, just covering some water should be able to find something.

Brian Bashore (05:53.538)
And that is, is that a, can you call there? I can't remember what the rules were for that one.

KK (05:57.356)
You know, I don't even remember. don't even know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they've got, they've sent out plenty enough rules for us. I mean, we can't talk to anybody since the Friday of Setacahuilla. You can't call anybody out there. You can't fish with anybody. The guys who normally come pre -fish when we can't even fish with me. So, a lot of rules out there. I, haven't really read the tournament rules yet, cause I'm just trying to make sure I follow all the pre -fishing rules. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (06:05.131)
Right.

Brian Bashore (06:09.409)
Yup.

Brian Bashore (06:22.692)
All right. There's so many other rules to make sure you're not here following, which I mean, they're all good. It's a limited practice for you. there's a media day built in. I mean, that's good. It's off limits from, like you said, the day after Friday when Scott Kuiah was over. Boom. Done. No communication, no fishing. and then.

KK (06:37.696)
Right, right. All the way till the Friday before we can start fishing so. One. One and a half. We can fish on the day before the tournament, but then I think it is a media afternoon. I think like you said.

Brian Bashore (06:43.136)
On the Friday before. So basically you get four days, right? Three and half, four and a half. Okay.

Brian Bashore (06:54.742)
Yep. Yep. I believe they implemented that and yeah, hopefully it's more than a five fish thing and you guys can can call or maybe have one or two to play with because that, you know, that would be real nice.

That made things a little tricky this season and I'm sure, you know, made a lot of people's no, no, but who would have thought green Bay was like three fish. This is going to be horrible. But then it comes to term and time. You're like, man, three fish. I'm glad it's only three fish because that's all I can catch for some.

KK (07:21.954)
Yeah. I mean, first day I could have caught more, but because I had to quit about 10, but the second day I couldn't get three. was only two. I mean, it was the kind of thing where I still would have liked to have a few extras. Hopefully they are looking seriously now at something like CRR, know, catch, record, release, something like that, where we don't have to mess with all these goofy, you know, no call, no slot limits, party fishing, all of that kind of goes.

Brian Bashore (07:46.946)
Yep.

KK (07:47.978)
And you can just get to go out and catch the biggest fish you can in a day. And that's what you get, which is way more fun, way more.

Brian Bashore (07:54.048)
Way way more fun and unlike spending that kind of money and time traveling and going out for two hours and being done I mean, it's good. It means it probably had a good day, but it's like It's fun. I want to go

KK (07:59.104)
Right. Right.

It's actually fun. Red Wing, me and my co -anger were done in a couple hours at Red Wing. And I was just like, damn, I hate quitting because fishing is just fun. mean, was catching lots of fish and, you know, I could have looked around for some other areas for day two or on day two, stayed there and whacked on them for a while. And that would have been fun, but it is what it is. they'll quit re -nitching.

Brian Bashore (08:12.716)
Right.

Brian Bashore (08:17.901)
Yup.

Brian Bashore (08:23.682)
All right. mean, we all, we love to fish and when you're out there and it's a beautiful day, like I said, you get them quick. It's, Hey, let me go do some pre -fishing for the next day or just let me just go enjoy this day. You know, because I might've had a couple crappy practice days with weather wise and didn't get out and I'm here and it's, mean, the more time in the water, the better angler you are period. So you might pick up stuff for years down the road when you come back there. Well, but it's, it's the rules. all play by them and they are what they are. And yeah, we'll see what next year's.

KK (08:37.088)
Right.

Brian Bashore (08:50.496)
Rules hold and if there's any modifications, I'm sure there's a handful of things coming and, it sounds from kind of the rumor mill what I'm hearing. think it's making everything for the better. So, that's good. That's where we want to go. schedule next year. you're looking to jump in on all of them again. Are you going to play that one by ear or play it by ear?

KK (09:02.316)
I so.

KK (09:08.716)
Wait by your still negotiating a little bit with sponsors, you know, things like that. And I don't know. mean, some of them are fun places to go. Some of them so so, you know, kind of getting to the point now where so so ain't so much fun no more. So now I'm kind of just go fishing where I want to go fishing. There happens to be a tournament there. That's great. So, you know.

Brian Bashore (09:24.394)
Yep. Bye.

Brian Bashore (09:31.136)
Yeah, I know the feeling. This stuff isn't cheap by all means. So if you're going to make a long haul and travel, it needs to be worth your time, which means it's got to be fun. Something you're looking forward to.

KK (09:41.612)
Don't have to cash a check, just gotta have fun. That's what I'm at.

Brian Bashore (09:43.7)
Right. I think I've heard you say it plenty before and probably a good little nugget for the listeners is, if you're trying to make a living and fit my fishing tournaments, it's not a very good business plan. I you said those pretty close to those keywords years ago.

KK (09:58.498)
I've been fishing tournaments 40 years. believe this is my 40th year fishing tournaments. And I would consider myself real lucky if I broke even over those 40 years. know, I've been up at the top plenty, so I made plenty of money fishing tournaments, but, you know, to make money in tournaments, better like them, better like them.

Brian Bashore (10:17.976)
You better have a backup plan. And I mean, it's all part of the, the persona, you know, I mean, you've been around, you've done everything, but these tournaments have led, you know, to sponsorship opportunities. But most of that just comes from your ability to be on social and the TV show, the next bite and just being, you know, Keith, the educator, innovator that you are. How does that kind of played into your, your career in a sense, outside of tournaments or how has tournaments helped everything else evolve?

KK (10:45.366)
Well, tournaments have always been, you know, kind of your credibility. mean, if you do good in tournaments, people want to listen to you. After a while though, you know, if they listen to you and they use the stuff you talk about and you got, you know, you're only telling them what's going to actually work. They go out and they catch some fish. They obviously want to come and listen to you again. People don't care about necessarily about how well I do in tournaments. What they want to know is how did I win the tournament? How did I, what did I do to catch all those fish? You know, how, you know, things like that, something new for them.

Something they might apply to their lake or to the lake we fished on. So, you know, people, I believe most people follow tournaments for that reason is to learn something. I watched some of the Bassmaster and MLF kind of tournaments. And the only reason I am is maybe I'll see something or they're doing something that I can apply to walleyes. Don't bass fish that much, but maybe, you know, fishing is fishing or maybe I can apply it to saltwater. And so I think a lot of people watch.

Brian Bashore (11:26.029)
No.

KK (11:42.444)
tournaments, TV shows, all of it to learn something and therefore become a better fisherman themselves.

Brian Bashore (11:50.294)
Yeah, it is. While anglers as a whole, don't think that a majority of anglers do a great job of sharing that. really? I mean, there's not a lot of secrets out there in fishing anymore. you know, with the way things are.

KK (11:57.728)
Well.

KK (12:01.994)
Yeah, because of my sponsor because of the sponsorships and the companies I aligned with Secrets are one of the best things to promote. So for me when I get a secret, I'm not gonna hold it There's been plenty things through my career that shiver minnows and you know slow death hooks I mean a lot of different things in our career. We could have just held maybe for the next year or two done You know done well in tournaments more or better, you know in the following years, but

I just like getting the information out there, know, kind of telling people that's what they I hope follow me for is because if I learn something, I'm going to tell them about it. Hopefully it helps them catch more fish.

Brian Bashore (12:41.56)
Yeah. And that's a, Zach, mean, it's everybody wins, right? The rising tide, you know, raises all ships theory and it's right. And that's, that's how you get sponsorships for, those out there trying to figure it out. You know, I hear it all the time from the CMOs and stuff. like, get a hundred requests from people. won their little local Derby and they're like, Hey, give me this. And it's like, well, first and foremost, you're a salesman. there's once again, secrets, aren't selling anything. I mean, you got to, you got to share it and let them know, but it's like said, it's not.

Winning the tournaments. mean, it certainly helps by all means, but it's, you can still catch and have a great tournament and not win it. But people still want to know how you did it, where you did it, why you did it, you know, whatever the case is. And they're going to jump out. Now they're able to go out there and go the next day and just go right to those areas or, you know, employ those tactics and, see if they work. And, then they can kind of tell if, all right, that guy's press releases. He's these, there's no bowl there. That's that actually worked. Are they going to be like, that's not at all what that guy was doing.

KK (13:33.452)
Maybe I'll follow them. Bye.

Brian Bashore (13:38.017)
They'll make sure to call you out on it too if it's not because you know everybody's got that power nowadays.

KK (13:43.574)
Well, I don't get called out very often. Once in a while somebody's got a comment that I guess it's their right to have a comment. My right not to listen to it and my right not to come in back. So whatever.

Brian Bashore (13:53.686)
Yeah, we all, we're got opinions, but we know about that. Yup. Exactly. Exactly. Everybody's got an opinion nowadays, no matter what it is. And we all knows what those are just like something else we all have. So yeah, this is how you take it how you deal with it. But for the most part, I don't think you've ever been one to lead people astray. You've been sharing information and tactics and, and just knowledge. think you just came back from the clam you've been right for the ice stuff and

dropping all sorts of nuggets for people. How to anything new coming out there. What went on at the clam expo or the pro meeting.

KK (14:23.062)
Mm

KK (14:30.314)
Yeah. mean, a lot of it, I had seen that ICAST already. They actually had a booth down in ICAST now, but the heaters, those new heaters look really nice. they got some new suits, they got some new tackle. and I think the main thing that went on this year was they had a day before our regular meeting, protein meeting, had what they call the summit meeting, which they brought in. don't know, there had to be two or three dozen people in it. And just talking about, you know, things they could do in the future.

that would be innovative or would be better for fishermen, whether it's ice fishing or open water. So I think they got some good ideas from that. And I would expect to see some really good stuff maybe next year or the year after. Maybe not even so much related to ice fishing anymore as just fishing in general. So it was a good meeting. It's always fun to be that that, you know, if you've seen the pictures, I mean, there's several hundred people there. They're all in their blue there. You know, it's like the blue army. So it's a great time. Fun time.

They got a nice social event on Friday night. So that's one.

Brian Bashore (15:33.686)
That is, yeah, Clam's got a huge pro staff. that, and they got an absolute ton of ice fishing products. So, it's hard to be innovative with ice fishing sometimes. mean, when they have so much stuff already, like you said, it's a heater and some other things that you're just outside of that realm they're trying to get creative with. So, yeah, which is.

KK (15:40.556)
world.

KK (15:51.468)
Well, they a lot of new tackle. did have a lot of new tackle, different, you know, but a lot of it was panfishing type stuff. So really not a lot for walleyes this year, a lot more for, panfishing. So check it out.

Brian Bashore (16:03.896)
Hey, well, there's a lot of pan fisherman out there. love that stuff. I actually got on a perch bite myself on Lewis Clark, which is not a perch fishery. We're like, I caught more perch yesterday than I've caught in the last five years combined. That's how that, I mean, which was like 10 because you just don't catch perch there, but they're all like 10 plus inch perch. So they're nice, nice perch. And then it was a 16 inch walleyes mixed in or a 21 inch. And you're like, Hey, I think we can go perch fishing now. So it was a.

KK (16:15.989)
Nice.

KK (16:24.77)
very much.

KK (16:31.234)
Perfect.

Brian Bashore (16:31.926)
It was kind of fun and people didn't care at the end of the day. Like you get to them. Like, yeah, well we got some perch and are just dropped. Like, well, you got perch where, you know, how big I'm like, they didn't care about the wall. I no more than I'm like, I think we're to be guiding some perch strips here, which is fine. Find me. They do. They are a tasty, tasty fish. So, so you talked about the future a little bit there with a clam. What, what do you think? Where do you feel all these walleye tournaments are going? You kind of touched on the CCR stuff and I know you're a big promoter and a founder of the aim.

KK (16:38.722)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (17:00.566)
circuit and format with that. what do you, what do you, this, where do you see the wall? I term is moving in the future as a whole for all the circuits out there. got NWT aim. You got a lot of local stuff, governor cups, casino cup. mean, a lot of those kinds of things going. And some of those, think Montana moved to a CCR format for their gov cup. Flash. I think this last. Yeah. Yeah. The Wyoming does have the way in boat type deal too. I think on the water, which.

KK (17:13.91)
Right.

KK (17:20.456)
Maybe, there's still the weigh -in boats plan on. You gotta bring it in the weigh -in boat kind of.

I think Wyoming actually, there's a company out of Denver that does a new app. That's really a nice one. E -tournament fishing. and I actually worked with them. I'm not affiliated with them, but I kind of consulted with them a little bit about some of the things their app should do and could do not just for anglers, but you know, there's so many, you know, there's sponsors, there's the, the, the home, you know, the, the site sponsors, there's, obviously, you know, the sponsors like

Bass Pro and all. mean, there's a lot of different facets you have to think about when you're doing one of these apps to make it a really good app for everybody. The spectators. There's so much more data that you could collect and show to spectators than just bringing a basket up to stage, slopping it on the scale and then bringing it off. So I think, and I'm hoping that we'll, we'll actually see that app kind of move ahead a little bit more. It's kind of up and beyond some of the other apps that are out there.

I'm kind of handling the whole tournament, not just the wane of fish. So, kind of excited about that. I know Bass Pro is looking at it for the NWT. and they just actually used it down in one of their saltwater events, IFG, IGA or something like that event. Yeah. Yeah. So it worked out really good and it worked really good for them. And down there, you know, it's the same thing. A lot of times you can only bring in one fish and it's just by length and things like

Brian Bashore (18:39.452)
yep. Yep. IGFA I think, Inter, or I see it. Yeah. The Redfish Speckled Trout Tournament.

KK (18:53.89)
Well, that's what we need to get to. We need to get back to where a guy can go out, catch as many fish as you can in a day, catch the biggest fish you can catch in a day, not worry about slots, not worry about calling, put them on your card, bring them in and whoever's got the biggest five wins for that day and the biggest 10 or 15 or whatever it is for the tournament, they win the tournament. So that makes it much more fun. I think there's plenty of anglers now who have used Catch, Record and Release or Catch, Record

video release or whatever, whatever way you want to do it, that a lot of people are comfortable with it. and for the most part, haven't heard once guys used to doing it that way. I haven't heard anybody who wants to go back and weigh fish anymore. I mean, we all worry about keeping big fish, you know, trying to keep them alive. And I mean, it's not something I do when I fund fish. I don't keep the big ones when I prefish, I don't keep any fish. so it's like why are you doing the tournament?

Brian Bashore (19:45.014)
All right. Yep.

KK (19:49.676)
Do I got to change my whole conservative conservation policy to bring in fish that nobody sees? And again, we're just putting them up on a scale and then bringing them back out and try and keep them alive. We just don't have to do that. I think technology is there. think it brings the fun back. And it's like, I've been telling a lot of people. Fishing is fun. Tournaments are fun. And if you take the fun out, the anglers will get out because they want to have.

Brian Bashore (20:00.705)
and

Brian Bashore (20:14.294)
Yes, true. And there's no tournament without anglers. No, it's very true. I know about that. After talking about, they reached out to me for our league to do it. We weren't going to go that route. we actually ended up going that route, with fish donkey. but same could just, yeah, but it works great. I mean, we had it, we had a meeting. People were kind of like, no, that I explained to them the benefits of it. Cause I'm like, you know, you're

KK (20:17.718)
That's correct.

KK (20:28.736)
Yeah, it's a little bit cool.

Same thing.

Brian Bashore (20:38.072)
It's a league night, right? Just 20 bucks a head. Just fun, right? Fishing's fun. We need to make this fun. You can have the third kids can come load up your boat. I said, but if your partner doesn't show up and it's just one of you and it's a best string or five, our limits for, and we don't have overs at Lewis Clark, but it's most South Dakota, you know, it's one over 20. So I'm like, you don't, you can fish by yourself. You know, if you're out there scoping like me, I have several times and I don't have to worry about the forks. I'm snapping a photo and just taking them back. And I mean, it's a cold term, but basically.

And once they caught on, they were all like, okay. And after the first tournament, it had a few glitches, which is mainly just all of our user errors. But after that, people are like, they love it. Last night we had a league night side pots, you know, and all that. And I sit down, verify it afterwards. It takes 10 minutes. Boom. Here's your winner, you know, done. And they're just like, yeah, that's slick. That's nice.

KK (21:28.866)
Well, that's the future while I fishing. if it isn't the future while I fishing, think the future is a little bit more dire than, you know, I just really think people, they'll probably drop out, you know, the high -end tournaments, the expensive ones, I think they'll see less and less participation in them. People may go down to the regionals or the local tournaments because, anglers just like competition. like, you know, the certain, certain anglers like competition. So they'll always have that, you know, bug in their mind that they want to do it. And that's fine, but.

I think it'll hurt the high -end national ones.

Brian Bashore (22:01.57)
Yeah. And those are, we don't need to hurt those because we need those to help continue to grow the sport. mean, when we need the media coverage, we need the masses. And I mean, some of these local ones do pretty good job of covering their stuff as well. So.

KK (22:06.272)
Right.

KK (22:12.91)
Well, frankly, people want to move up. They want to move up from the local to the regional to the, you know, to the national, see what they can do against some of the top sticks in the country. So that was an opportunity I always had. So that's why I'm investing a little of my time to try and push that. as we go forward here, obviously it's not going to make much difference in my career anymore, which way they want to go with tournaments or whatever. I mean, if it becomes non -fun, I just, I just won't fish them. I can always go and fish aim events with my boys or, know, some

tournament where it is fun. But there are a lot of people who I would hope get some of the opportunities I've had over my years and maybe get lucky enough to, you know, get the right sponsors and get to go out and do it as a full -time living. You know, I hope a lot of anglers get that opportunity. Just need a few changes right now.

Brian Bashore (23:01.004)
Yeah, but no, that's what, that's why you're a hall of famer, Keith. That's why you're the living legend because you're not out of it, but you're transitioning out, but you're not, you're never going to stop pushing it. You want to push it up. You want to enhance the sport girls sport. And you and Gary both done that talking to people outside of it, like the guys out of Colorado with the app, you know, and you've done the app stuff and you come from, you know, the IBM, the technical.

world a bit and obviously I've got the social media stuff figured out as people watch. mean, I think your mink video still pops up every winter, you know, on my thread sometime. So.

KK (23:33.612)
you

infamous the worst part about the infamous mink video is and i told this on somebody is that the first time that came out it had like six million views or something stupid like that and then we put it out one more time last winter i don't think it'll go out this winter but it was like two million views again and the worst part is that dang little video probably has more views than all of the rest of my career being put together so yeah it's funny how social media works but you do what you can you spend out there and

Brian Bashore (23:57.686)
I'm proud.

Yup.

Brian Bashore (24:04.034)
Yeah.

KK (24:05.59)
people like it, they'll follow you.

Brian Bashore (24:07.274)
Yep. That's that's, that's, that's going viral. So that's sometimes all it takes to help somebody to get over a hump or to move to a next level of something. you did what a lot of people don't do is a new stuck with it and you continue to put the content out there and the information out there. There's a lot of one hit wonders and stuff like that, but that's, that's not Keith. So, mean, how many years, what, you know, the

the benefit of longevity because how many years do you do the next bite? 18, 19.

KK (24:36.258)
I was with the next bite for 17 years. still, still host. I'm going to host another one this year. I host one or two a year still. just got tired of the business aspects of having a TV show and all the meetings and all of the politics. And so I just, if they want me to go out and fish and put the camera on me, that's fine. If not, that's fine too. I just, I do like doing TV shows. I think it's a great way to get the word out about things. It's a great people.

way to show people how to have fun out there. So as long as they want me to host them, I'll keep going on the show.

Brian Bashore (25:11.66)
Yeah. Politics and fishing really there's politics and fishing on the business side of it. No, you're kidding me. It's a, so much that happens behind the scenes and nobody knows about. And I, it is a very small world.

KK (25:24.054)
Very small world. Everybody knows everybody when you get to a certain level. Everybody knows everybody. Somebody at one company could be your boss tomorrow at your main company. I mean, they move around within the industry. So it's very, very small world. And you got to kind of tiptoe around, not make too many waves, try to do the best you can. And hopefully the best you can is good enough to keep your sponsors going.

Brian Bashore (25:49.972)
Right. And it's tough not to make waves when you're trying to progress things and it's sometimes against the grain. mean, you're seeing it now in the bass world and obviously, know, facing sonars causing all sorts of, of, you know, ripple effect here and there. And, I think you're, you're still a Larrance running that active target.

KK (26:08.086)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I run it and I like to actually like doing it. but I also like to do too many other things. And I don't know where I get hurt a little as I go to these tournaments now and kind of got in my head. All right. Got to stand that active target. Got to, you know, do this. And then you get out there and it's going all right, but not great. And you're like, yeah, I wonder if I pulled lead core with a crankbait through these, if I wouldn't get one. And so you do that and then you pull some spinners through them and then you're

Brian Bashore (26:16.722)
Right.

KK (26:35.008)
Well, then you've wasted, know, not wasted, but you've used the half the day that the forward facing guys are on. There's, they're just looking and looking. And so the odds of them finding something using forward facing over five days or six days, however long you practice pretty good. I'm still, I got to do the other things. got to shiver once in a while. I got to do this. I got to pull the crutches. I, you know, there's things I want to do just because I'm like, so we, as such a great fishery can do almost anything there. And it was fun fishing. So.

Brian Bashore (26:37.304)
All right.

KK (27:03.852)
Should have spent more time on my active target, but I didn't. And that's fine. I caught a lot of fish and had fun.

Brian Bashore (27:10.296)
Well, I mean, you're like, do I just gotta drive around and look at this all day and make a few casts at, you know, the right fish, which if you can determine how big and what they are, haven't got that dialed in yet. just started throwing at everything that swims and you start catching some fish, but it's also frustrated as hell. But you know that, Hey, I can pull, you know, like you said, I can drag some lead across here, pull some spinners and, boom, boom, boom. You know, you start catching fish and. Hey, that's fun. And it's, it's hard to teach them. I don't know old dog new tricks on time, but just new ways and.

You know, the, the retrainer, our minds and, kind of how your strategy going into it, but it's hands down, there's a dozen guys that are really good at it and they're locked in on that thing. And I'm pretty sure there's not lead core riding their boat. So not even.

KK (27:53.472)
Not even a rod holder, even, no, it's all in rods and nothing. So, well, I mean, complain about it, but you think back in my career, I mean, there was a lot of, you know, I can remember Gary Roach just madder in a hornet that they put mapping on a GPS. He had spent all of his life lining up a house with a telephone pole and he was on seven mile and couldn't believe they should outlaw that for tournaments. It's too much of an, you know, it just.

Brian Bashore (27:58.026)
Nope, I thought Tom went there today and he has a

Brian Bashore (28:12.45)
There you go.

KK (28:19.426)
too much. It's too much. They can get too much information, information that took me a lifetime to build up. We're all like, well, unless they all want I'm using it because it's great. can see the sharp drop -offs. I can go right to the flats. I can do anything I want. And that was for every lake. So I mean, those kinds of things have happened. mean, side scan. mean, there was, I'd scan came out. my gosh, you got out loud. I, you see too much this and that. Well, I mean, side scan is important. think active targets is important.

Brian Bashore (28:30.263)
Yep.

KK (28:48.17)
I like seeing a lot of things under the water. Yeah, I'm not quite as good as the other guys at it, but I keep trying it and I keep doing it and I'll have success with it. And success just makes you want to do it more and more. So I'll keep after it.

Brian Bashore (29:03.084)
Yeah. As long as that's a tool, we got to have it in our box and we better use it and learn, learn how to use it. And if there's any changes, whether it's from the States or fishery management or from circuit levels, then it's, it'll be the same for everybody, whether it's allowed or not allowed or limited amount of transducers or whatever. I know Bass is trying to come up with some kind of way to determine all that. But once again, it's, don't mean it's fairly new, but it's been around for awhile, but obviously the new, the general public.

You know, didn't know as much about it. would say probably till the last couple, three years, but some guys have been using it for over five, I think already. Right.

KK (29:40.332)
Well, when it first came out, some of the early models weren't that great. And that's kind of where I got a little bit behind. I mean, Garmin and they just weren't that great. felt like, well, yeah, it's something, but it's not that great. But some of the guys, even though it wasn't showing you everything it does now, they they took it in. They made it their own. They started using it. And even though they were maybe thrown at, they don't know what they're really thrown at, they're thrown at something.

Now the equipment is getting better and better every year. So now you can start to sell ties as a fish. Maybe you can even tell what kind of fish it is. Is it rounder? Is it longer? You know, so, it'll continue to advance and as it does, it's just, makes it that much easier to use. And that's when the public will start to get on a little bit, but I don't think it's ever going to be. You know, where everybody on every lake everywhere is looking at their front unit and, you know, using.

port facing toner to do all their fishing. It's, it's not as social. It's not as, I don't know. It's not as fun. I do like doing it, but it's interesting. Yeah. But even when I'm swallowing or pulling bottom bouncers, I pointed ahead and I looked, there's some fish ahead of me. And I turned my, you know, I used to fish bottom bouncers. You'd pick at them. there I graft around a point. lot of them are in 20. I'll just stick in 20.

Brian Bashore (30:43.512)
It's fun when it works.

KK (31:00.226)
Well, now you're going around it. You're up in 15 and you quick glance out. wait, there's just some down deep right. I even know how deep there. just had for him. there's some up shallower. I just had for him. So using forward facing more than just casting is something else I think you're going to see more and more of just because it is a great way to to see more stuff underwater.

Brian Bashore (31:20.44)
Yeah. Talked to a chat shilling about that in the spring and he was getting a few transducers put on his boat and just for that to see them on the points and see them over the trees at Lake Hawaii. So before getting to them, he knew where to go and to get those baits down or up. And there's no longer you're setting your contour line and just going as trails look like this now because I'm chasing them around it. Cause I see them where they weren't. And the last time it would take you 30 minutes to turn around and try to figure out, now there's someone 15 and then I hit 20 and now you can just go.

KK (31:41.76)
All right.

Brian Bashore (31:50.328)
20, 15, you know, make the zigzags and obviously with bouncers, you can do that a little better off. Not so much.

KK (31:55.458)
But I think as, as we start to use that technology that gives those techniques a better chance of winning tournaments again, I'll be a better bottom bouncer, fisherman. I'll be a better counter crank or I'll be a better open water fishermen because I can make quicker adjustments and I can run more than one rod. can run now me and my co -engler can run four over here in Wisconsin, six rods. I think at some point that'll, that technology will also help those techniques.

allow you to catch more fish and therefore you'll be able to compete with the guy with one rod and casting you know and the co -englers there's some that are fairly good at looking at active target or whatever maybe picking something out to cast at but in most cases it's going to be the pro who's catching most of the fish so basically you're fishing against one rod like I said hopefully I can fish four rods I hope the NWT switches that we can run six rods again because that's

One of the things too, the reason we have two rods, we're limited to two rods per angler, even if the state allows three or more is, that, at one time the jiggers complained so much, right? We can't even compete jigging because the trollers can run six rods. my gosh. You know, when I was like trollers are like, we need six rods just to compete with it. So I think looking at some rules like that can also help us, kind of even out the field.

Brian Bashore (33:15.416)
You with the one rod guy. Right. Yep.

KK (33:24.587)
As far as what technique you want to use if you don't want to be up on the bow all the time, if you want to do other things, think that technology can also be used for those techniques.

Brian Bashore (33:36.972)
Yeah. I, watch my bottom bouncer on the pole behind the boat. So I can see, can see fish coming up or if I'm fishing over trees, I can pull it up and you can, you know, it's amazing how, how many more fish there are going right underneath your, your slow death or whatever than what you see on your 2d. You're like, this is a non stop float. Why am I not catching a ton of fish here? But you get one following it forever and you can just give it a little Twitch or drop it back and then, you know,

KK (33:52.418)
Good.

KK (34:02.574)
It's just like ice fishing. One of the cool parts of ice fishing is you know if you're not doing something right because the fish are not reacting the right way. You know they're not biting. So that you can make changes up, down, faster, slower, jiggle, don't jiggle, know whatever it is. At least you got the information to make that change.

Brian Bashore (34:20.632)
Yeah, we're definitely learning a lot of their behavior. you know, is it, but really it's being able to adjust to it on the fly. Cause maybe that's what they're doing today, but they're not going to do that tomorrow or an hour from now, or in a different spot, 10 miles down, down Lake or down river. No, it is a kind of, so the co anglers a lot and I scoped the entire time it's a cock we, and I would tell them I'm like,

KK (34:37.164)
Right.

Brian Bashore (34:46.26)
And you just said that the pros are going to catch most of the fish. It's tough for that coangler to be in the back of the boat. If you have a pole mount for him. So at least he's got something to watch, but you're up there and you may decide to zig, know, zig and zag this way and this way. He might just be on a fish and you, take off. just told him, said, if you're on something holler, otherwise I'm not even really looking back. You know, I'm just, I'm going to be fishing. If you're on something like you're, you got one about to bite or you're working on holler. So I don't, you know, floor it and gun it.

KK (35:12.876)
Yeah. Which also, I mean, you also don't have the ability back there to swing around in the wind or point at the fish or anything. So it is a disadvantage being back there. Obviously it's nice to know, even, even me, I can't always, you know, pick out my lure and the fish, but at least I know I'm casting where there's a fish and I'm going to be within two or three, four or five feet of that fish and hopefully he swims over and comes against my bait. So the co -englers can do the same kind of thing up to the pro to kind of teach them how to do that. I mean, that's.

way my career has been. mean, little seminar in the morning has given me lots of fish over my career because the coangler catches that key one or two or three fish in a day. Maybe they even out fish me, which is great because I love netting.

Brian Bashore (35:56.308)
All right. A lot less pressure sometimes, but I don't know when it comes to trolling netting is a pretty big, pretty big, important part. It's a big deal. I've seen plenty of fish, even if my boat that didn't make it in because of the, you know, the netting and the trolling didn't, didn't line up very good. So it takes a little bit of practice. we're talking, you know, a little future. What do you see the industry? you went to ICAST, you went to the clam thing. You see kind of innovation, where you think to fishing, I don't know economies.

KK (36:04.001)
It is.

Brian Bashore (36:26.68)
wonderful some would say and some of the big companies you've seen a lot of mergers where you think we're I mean nobody probably knows us better than than you and all those guys over the next bite that are having to deal with the business and the politics side of it it maybe haven't so much last couple years but any trends or you see where things are going

KK (36:44.128)
Well, you know, obviously the biggest trend is the conglomerations now taking over things. know, moonshine just got bought. mean, he was a, you know, a small company and built it up and hopefully with the help of some of our promotions and things and, you know, stole it to a bigger company because it was successful enough, which is good. I mean, that's good for him. The biggest problem I see with some of those mergers is there a lot of times.

the product lines that get scrutinized where they might drop off the lower third of the most productive colors in a shiver minnow or something. A lot of times something gets dropped. And the problem is, that something might be your favorite color or your favorite lure or your favorite this or that. if they stayed a small company, they don't worry about that as much as these big companies. Even at Berkeley, mean, we've had a tackle we've designed.

or tackle has been designed, the ones I've done, but tackle has been designed and all of a sudden that sales just aren't there and three years later it's gone before it really even gets a chance to get started because they look at the bottom line of things a lot more. And so, you know, it's good in some respects, I guess, because, know, a Berkeley or Acme owns Moonshine, you know, they got bigger production facilities. We're talking about coming out with more colors or come, you know,

So in better distribution, so you can get it in more places. So there's advantages, but obviously there are some disadvantages. And you see that now more and more, there's just fewer and fewer of the smaller companies that are, you know, first of all, doing well. And if they do do well, they're kind of on the, you know, on the, on the sales block or whatever they're, they're probably being looked at by several companies. Cause a lot of these companies have seen great success buying these smaller companies.

expanding them and then they're making the big money instead of that small guy.

Brian Bashore (38:43.68)
Yeah. And most of time it's a holding company really, or an investors that don't even have any, they're just looking at the books and, potential revenue. And you just hope that, all right, you keep everybody in place and you just keep doing what you're doing, which doesn't always happen, unfortunately. But like you said, you lose a. Right.

KK (38:57.43)
Right. They keep everybody in place. It usually works out. If they don't, you just start looking every month at the bottom line of fishing. And that's what will be coming up here is, that, you know, if the economy gets tough or, you know, anglers start slow down a little bit, especially, you know, buying bigger price tag things, those conglomerates look, you know, start seeing a hit monthly or quarterly. They don't wait till the next season to make sure, you know, is it really a trend or is this just a blip?

You can lose companies, you can lose tackle, you can, you know, and I hate to see that in the fishing industry. I like having lots of options for anglers. And so, you know, that that's probably the biggest thing I see coming. You know, obviously boats and motors and things like that get affected first when when the economies go bad and they're also the last ones to come back. But interestingly enough, usually tackle does pretty good in off.

economies because a guy still wants to get something new for fishing. You know, by dollar lure or this school of new line or whatever it is. anglers still like to get something new. and so they just based on how well they're doing financially, it kind of goes up or down, you know, down the floors and line or is it rods and reels or new electronics or a boat motor trailer? That lot goes along with the economy.

Brian Bashore (40:00.056)
All right, yeah, I'm gonna buy this $10. Yep.

Brian Bashore (40:21.9)
Lures and beer never go out during a recession. Right? Those are two things that people just keep buying. you know, and, anglers have some, some say, like when they take a black gold sunset or whatever the color was, think that we lost years ago and everybody went, no, no, this is my favorite. You know, and then they, okay. They bring it back. A lot of that is don't keep it secrets. Tell them. So the bottom line is good, but you know, if there's just a few of your hoarding thousands of them, know,

KK (40:26.245)
I wouldn't know anything about that.

KK (40:48.097)
Yeah.

If they hoard thousands, it'd be fine, but they got to keep buying out, but keep it alone.

Brian Bashore (40:51.564)
Sure. All right. Right. Indeed. Indeed. speaking of lures, fall fish and it's coming up. I've been using, I used the hit sticks a lot on Erie. That was that I drove and the stick outperformed everything by a long shot. That's probably the yeah. Deep hit stick blue, blue chrome. And it was, I mean, I got four of them on come tournament time. I'm like, this is out performing everything.

KK (41:03.136)
Mm -hmm.

KK (41:11.84)
Neep is sick. Yeah.

KK (41:16.864)
Yeah. Sounds like I should have had some more on. So I had other colors on. No, they were good slimes. like the slime colors, the ones with the chartreuse belly on them. Purple, cinnamon, blue slime. Probably my favorite two out there.

Brian Bashore (41:22.658)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (41:33.836)
Yep. Actually, I think I had a purple slime on two, maybe two Crohams and two blue slime or purple slime. I had a couple of those, the chrome belly on them.

KK (41:42.559)
Now they're great, great lure. The guy did a really good job designing those a little bit more aggressive than a Flickr Minnow. So what people don't realize is like out in the near year in the spring, you've been think, aggressive. I got to go more finesse. But the other thing is we just slow down so much that a trolling one eight, mile an hour, we're only trolling one to one point two. And those aggressive bakes actually

take off they start moving at slower rates than some of the finesse baits so they actually have a great action in cold water because they activate so quickly at slow speeds so reef runner, bandits, they're all the same you wouldn't think early in the season they would be that good because they're so aggressive but you slow down and the aggressiveness goes away and just a great action takes over and that's what the Deep Hits Tick has.

Brian Bashore (42:20.258)
Kind like Reef Runner.

man too.

Brian Bashore (42:34.732)
Yeah, to hell with bait and even the shallow ones I pulled. think when we were at the Detroit river a few years back, it was a tough, tough bite as well. I switched over to three away the hit stick immediately. Boop, five pounder. I'm like.

KK (42:48.787)
I like using those shallow Coming up here are some really good night bites in the fall. Especially guys who go over to Uri for the fall brawl type. There two of over there. A lot of are one with stick baits up shallow. It's one of the things I love doing coming up here. I think we are going to shoot show up in Sturgeon Bay in October this year. Fishing shallow. I haven't done that for a while.

We used to in the eighties go over there every weekend of September, October, and November from Rochester, drive over there every weekend to do that. And the bite is still there. It's just not quite as many people do it. And I think because of the day bite has gotten so good, but I'm to go over there and fish with Dale Stroeshine and you know, at the San Bay beach resort and try and get some nighttime bite with the hit sticks. So that'll be fun.

Brian Bashore (43:35.22)
Dale what is shallow? What are we referring to a shallow we're talking night bite and fall.

KK (43:38.69)
but you know, we fish a lot of the sharper breaks there, some of the cliffs and stuff, know, Henderson point, things like that. and those typically you're going to have your boat in eight to 10 feet of water, probably run some offshore boards in maybe an offshore board and the deep has stick out. but you know, eight to 10 foot of water, trawling the contours, not so much forward facing at night. it'll be.

Brian Bashore (44:03.052)
Now that's time to get the precision trolling data app out right there.

KK (44:08.256)
Yeah, the good old precision trolling. still a great app. Still a great app. Hopefully everybody's got one by now.

Brian Bashore (44:09.208)
that yeah.

Brian Bashore (44:15.104)
Yeah. And if you don't, I'll put a link to that down below in these, cause that, that thing is money. You, you gotta have it. just, everybody, if you troll at all snap waste lead core, I mean, in any, especially if you're long line and in shallow, just, it's all the answers are there.

KK (44:17.815)
You

KK (44:28.194)
It's amazing. I've trolled a ton over my career and I still, when I troll, it's on my seat. I'm always just continuously moving it around and, wait, now that's where it started working. I had 120 feet line out. That's how deep it goes. And then I want to try a different bait, get it in the same depth. So it's a little bit different line out so I can cross, you know, cross look at the lures and things. So yeah, super important. If you troll at all, you should be, it can take a lot of the guesswork and a lot of the, make you really...

almost an expert, a troller by simply using an app. again, technology, it's wonderful.

Brian Bashore (45:01.92)
And yeah, it is. It's always great when it works type thing, but that app always works and it's updated all the time. If I'll log in, may not on it so much and whatever time you're, or I'm not trolling, know, doing a lot more forward or jigging, but it updates us like that.

KK (45:14.85)
I think, yeah, I actually think next week, the Roman X are going up to Michigan to do a lot of the testing for this year's lures. So you're see a whole slug of them come out after that. Again, they sit up at a cabin for a week and pull around those baits. Mind numbingly boring. Mind numbingly boring. 50 feet, run it by, let out 100 feet, run it by, let out 150, run it by. now we got snap weights. Now we got three different.

Brian Bashore (45:31.018)
Yeah, I can imagine.

KK (45:40.778)
speeds we got to run it by at different lengths. I mean, it's just horrible. did it one or two days with them one time and I said, yeah, you guys can handle that part.

Brian Bashore (45:50.648)
You got this. You're good. I mean, a scuba diver and a measuring stick in the water. Is that pretty much how it's dialed in?

KK (45:56.521)
Yeah. Weighted tape measure. Yeah. And run it by it. Look at it, go by the tape measure. So very, very precise, but very, very boring. Very, it's why, and that's why a lot of people don't have their own charts and stuff like that is cause it is super boring. Might be able to one or two lures and get it pretty good, but trying, I think we're 300, 350 lures now. So 400 might be 500. I don't even know. Like you said, they keep adding them. So.

Brian Bashore (46:14.061)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (46:19.605)
yeah.

Brian Bashore (46:22.988)
mean, but it's, it's, it's real data. mean, imagine somebody could hire some math, you know, guru nerd guy to come up with an algorithm says, okay, if this Lure does this, or if I can just get a test sample of a few of these, it's kind of, but every one of these is different. mean, none of these are created equal.

KK (46:34.08)
with time.

They're so different, you know, yeah, between the bills, the buoyancy, the waiting. mean, there's so many things that affect maybe not a lot, but there's a big difference between a 10 foot bait and a 12 foot bait. mean, there's the, got to know that. So yeah, I'm glad that I'm glad they do the testing.

Brian Bashore (46:55.511)
Yeah.

Yeah, details. mean more term or two won by somebody paying attention to the details than, than there is luck. So definitely some luck involved, but the details are, are going to put you up there consistently.

KK (47:11.478)
Yes, sir.

Brian Bashore (47:13.89)
talked about boats, big motors, Mercury, been Mercury for a long time. only motor I've ever had.

KK (47:19.254)
Yeah, my whole career, my whole career I've been Murphy.

Brian Bashore (47:24.012)
I know Gary talked about a little bit of devil's championship, how long he had been with, you know, boats and then mercury. think the only time he, sunk a boat or something once in a tournament once, but other than that, it really hadn't have any major issues. And, know, the mercury support trailer showed up at several of our tournaments throughout the years. And that's kind of what sold me when I bought a new boat was there's the other service trailers there, but they always tend to have a longer line behind them than the mercury trailer. went, I think I'm gonna go with that one.

KK (47:49.826)
you

KK (47:54.593)
Yeah, now Mercury engines have been, don't, I'm trying to think back, but I don't think I've ever not weighed in. So I've never broke down to where I couldn't get back in. maybe a kicker. had to come in on a kicker once or twice, mainly stupid things like a fuse blows, you know, like you're on your Verados, you got that live 12 volt fuse, little tiny wire and the little tiny fuse.

And if it blows your whole big 300 horse engine doesn't work. I'll tell you, that after the first tone. I mean, I learned it like a Mille Lacs kicker in from one side of it to the other. And I get back in the tech rep says, yeah, you're, clean 12 volt fuse blue. Here's, here's a five amp fuse for you. You're done. You know, thanks. So yeah, I mean, it's always got me home. run a long way. I'm one of the guys who will one the furthest.

Brian Bashore (48:25.91)
Yep. Right.

Brian Bashore (48:40.01)
Yeah, click boom, we're off and running. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (48:46.776)
And the fastest.

KK (48:49.986)
Well, I tried to do the fact this boat, pretty fast. I didn't get past at Sakaka Ueyasu and I did a lot of passing. the new boat is just, well, it's just the new boat and the V10. The new V10 is just a sick combination. mean, that boat runs totally different than our ZV21 from a couple of years ago. And I think part of it is the boat, cause they changed the hull slightly under to be more like your 20 footer.

Brian Bashore (48:59.126)
Yeah, you passed me.

KK (49:19.138)
is EV20, but also that V10 is just so powerful and it's swinging a 27 pitch prop and it's got super acceleration and the boat runs flatter. So you actually cutting through waves instead of kind of bouncing across them. Don't have to use the trim tabs as much. I mean, it just rips. mean, it's, it's, and it gets better gas mileage than our old 400. So, I mean, there's a lot to like about it and a lot to like about that package.

Brian Bashore (49:45.176)
I definitely rips through the rough stuff. My boat isn't the fastest. I got the ZV 20 with the 300 pro excess, which knock on wood. haven't had any problems with it. I think I just, had a new alternate. I mean, you're to have issues come up and that's wear and tear and we drive these things and to use them, but just good maintenance on it. And they pretty well perform all the time, but I've noticed it drastically. And I'm like, I'm not fast, but I still pass a lot of boats, but it's just because I'm able to go at.

KK (50:09.654)
Mm -hmm.

Brian Bashore (50:11.992)
The 55, you know, or full throttle in a little bit rougher water because I'm not getting tossed around and it's just plowing through it. Like I used to look at other guys go, wow, man, I need a 21 footer because that seems to be a big difference, which it is versus a 20. But going to the nitro, even the ZB 20, I even had guys that have the other brands jump in and go, yeah, this is way, way better ride.

KK (50:15.426)
Mm

KK (50:31.874)
Yeah. Well, ZV -20 is a nice boat. And I would actually consider like once I quit tournament fishing, getting one just because easier to tow, know, easier on the gas with that 300 is a great engine. I would consider getting that just because it's similar to our 21 as far as how it fishes. And still goes plenty fast. And like I said, just a little bit more economic. So really a nice package, but that 21 is thick.

Brian Bashore (51:01.208)
That is a beast and it has got an 80 gallon fuel tank in that thing.

KK (51:04.246)
80 gallon fuel tank. You know if I slow down a little we probably got almost 200 mile round trip we could take without gas. So if you go wide open it's probably 170, 165, 170 miles. So even that you know 80 miles to run one way without gas and run all the way home that's a nice deal.

Brian Bashore (51:25.176)
Well, yeah, it's going to save you 30 plus minutes of fuel up time or, more. And the fact that don't have to pay $5 a gallon to fuel up on water. Right. And you don't have to go 40 instead of 55 or 60 to, like we had to do in the past, plenty of time and kind of NASCAR and go, kind of got, I got to cut like socaco we are the first time, right? I got to go here to here to here and clean everything out of the boat. Right. So I get the.

KK (51:31.746)
slow down. Plus I won't have to slow down to do it.

Thank

Brian Bashore (51:51.852)
best fuel economy and then it's well who's gonna be fueling up when and where and where do I go so I can get this

KK (51:55.36)
Yeah, feeling after is never a good thing. Feeling is bad.

Brian Bashore (51:59.96)
No, no, not at all. It is a beast. That's the new boat I'm looking at. And one of my guides is just got his ordered, I believe. think he's going to under power a little bit just because he doesn't need the 400 as much as he wants it. But he's like, I know I'm just guiding. I'm not. Going tournaments does just don't don't need it.

KK (52:16.418)
Yeah, I imagine if you put a 300 on there, it'd be a great package. know, 300, 350, something like that. Probably a 300 would be probably really good on there. Really good.

Brian Bashore (52:28.504)
Now he's like, if I can go 50, he's like, that's good enough. He's like, don't drive 35 to 45 anyway, but I'm like, probably.

KK (52:34.562)
It'll probably be mid 50s with a 300 in there, good deal.

Brian Bashore (52:39.672)
It is a, it is a beast. is a hell of a boat and those nitros are priced very competitively, you know, in the market right now compared to a lot of the other brands out there. So I like it. And I like mine a lot. And I really just like how it handles on the rough water. And I had a trim tabs for the first time and I'll wow. I'm an idiot for not having those on before. Cause those are awesome for, I think they were only like a $1 ,500 add on, you know, a few years ago. I'm like, that was worth, I'd get rid of a graph over not having those trim tabs on.

KK (52:48.214)
Mm

KK (53:09.409)
I bet you it was 20, 25 years ago, were down doing some shoot somewhere with, and there was a bunch of saltwater guys there and we were running our boat and they're like, well, why don't you guys run trim tabs? We don't need those trim tabs. You guys, you need them on there. The big sluggish old boats that you got, we rip across the water. And then I probably 10 years ago, I

Brian Bashore (53:22.796)
Right.

KK (53:29.658)
Somebody put one on one of my boats and I'm like, my gosh. And now we run those pro tabs, you know, power trends, pro tabs are real easy to add on. In fact, I install mine myself every year just cause I want to make sure they're exactly right. You got to make sure they're not dragging when you're going wide open. but yet when you tip them down, they're biting the water enough so that it takes, I just find that some things like that, like mounting my graphs, mounting my trim tabs. just.

Brian Bashore (53:45.048)
Alright, yep.

KK (53:56.918)
do that just in case some new guy does, would just put this on here and that, and, you know, then holes and trying to repair holes. So I, you know, there are dealers and like, tractor rigging that I would trust to do it probably, but most of the time they're in such a hurry that are so tied up schedule wise that I need it before they can. I just do some of that stuff myself.

Brian Bashore (54:01.815)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (54:20.47)
Yeah, I had a new guy put mine on, think. I pulled the chemo's over at the gas station and said, hey, something's not right. But I slowed out, I'm hitting brakes. And they were, they're level. I said that, okay, but the boat doesn't sit in the water level. They needed to tilt it up a little bit. So chemo's grabbed by our, the judge grabbed the ruler and laid it underneath there and went, yep. And so I had to, yeah, I'm like, yeah. So I, and I undid them and tied them up and I could.

KK (54:29.634)
Thank

KK (54:42.742)
Good dragon.

Brian Bashore (54:47.416)
feel the difference and I just kept track of my fuel for a day and went, yeah, this is, and I did the math and like, cost me over $2 ,000 extra in fuel this year, but just cause I mean, I had 300 hours on it a year. And so I drilled on the plate instead of in the boat and to slit the arm back a little bit, which lifted it up like a half inch. And there we go. Good to go.

KK (55:07.074)
Yeah, and they must reference, but, you know, very important. yeah.

Brian Bashore (55:12.884)
Every little bit counts on those things, but it, it made a difference. And I was like, I don't know. And I looked at a few other ones that were the same year. I'm like, yep, same guy put those on that guy's boat too. And I told him like, we're having a problem.

KK (55:23.744)
Yeah. Well, I just, I just think the main thing here is, is if a guy has a boat and doesn't run them right now, they're fairly easy to add in yourself. mean, don't like on those pro tabs, just read the instructions. It gives you all the, far up it should be, you know, and I just follow those instructions real carefully, maybe more carefully than a guy who rigs every day. and we have never had a problem with mine.

dragging or biting. You gotta get them just right, if you get them up too high, then when you turn them down, you won't see that nice side to side movement that you wanna see. not too bad to add yourself. Kind of a fun little deal to do in a day. You'll get them done in a few hours.

Brian Bashore (56:06.496)
Are those pro tap days? Are those self leveling ones too? Are they still manual? Manual. That's way I would like it. I'd be a little afraid or at times when like guiding wise you have a heavier person on this side of bottom like it's I don't need it to go down. I don't because obviously you're getting dragged and sucking fuels like it's fine. We're just going a little ways.

KK (56:11.222)
Yeah, manual.

KK (56:26.183)
I think the really nice thing about them pro tabs is it's run by a joystick. It's not buttons. So when you're driving and man, it's tipping a little one side, you just tap your joystick. they're straightened out. You tap it the other way. So, you know, I got a quartering ways. want to tip it intentionally. Just tap over the joystick and then you just shove it down. If you ever want them to come up all the way, just push it down and up they come. And then you're just on your hole. So.

Brian Bashore (56:30.73)
who kept her?

Brian Bashore (56:51.544)
They're slick, it's amazing. Yeah, that would be.

KK (56:52.374)
The close -up is nice. mean, you don't have to look down, you don't have to look at lights, you just kind of do it by feel and the feel is real intuitive.

Brian Bashore (56:59.928)
It's amazing what just a clicks or a tap, just a half inch of that thing going down, what it does and how it lifts. I mean, it just, the rights it's amazing. like he'd said, if you don't have trip tabs and you're looking at adding them to a boat or getting a new boat, folks get, some trim tabs are going to be well worth it. Especially if you run some of these bigger waters or if you're a tournament angler and you're fishing in kind of whatever the conditions are that day. Cause we don't get to pick it.

KK (57:03.681)
Thank

I

Brian Bashore (57:24.758)
It's going to save you. It's going to save your windshields, going to save your back. It's going to save everybody in your boat and you're going to be able to ultimately probably, you know, go a little faster in those tournaments too, because you don't have to worry about those waves that are quartering against you. So awesome, awesome stuff. All right, Keith, well, don't take up too much of your time. We've been on here for about an hour. I think we covered a lot. we can talk to you for days cause you got the ridiculous wealth of knowledge and insight. And, but I know people appreciate you coming on here and sharing.

Sharing some of that with us and give your thoughts and good luck at the championship. know it's gonna be, hopefully you get some good weather. Who knows? mean, that place can blow, but any great lake can, so.

KK (58:06.498)
Yeah, no protection there. No protection at all.

Brian Bashore (58:09.408)
No, yeah, there's there. Yeah, there's there was never a place where there's no protection. That is it. There is. Is there what Thunder Bay is there like one kind of Bay, right? A little bit Thunderstik Bay or something like that at North. yeah, yeah.

KK (58:19.138)
Well that's north, that's 30 miles north. yeah, it's gonna be running up that way and that one really isn't that protected either because it's such a big bay. It's like saying Green Bay is protected.

Brian Bashore (58:29.878)
Yeah, yeah, that's the agreement is not protected at all by all means. So.

KK (58:34.444)
So yeah, it's going to be an interesting tournament.

Brian Bashore (58:39.276)
Well, we wish you luck. I don't know. be, watching, which is okay. So I got a busy week of guiding that week, but I look forward to watching it seeing what's happening. Interest and see how that one pans out. could be a forward facing so and are it could be trolling. There's so many things that could happen out there. And I mean, I know last time I was even in that area, that water was so clear. I mean, that also he's going to play into things and a little wins probably going to be good, for certain, but, but exactly.

KK (59:03.874)
thankful what you asked for though.

Brian Bashore (59:07.256)
Cause it doesn't take much there to a little, mean, 10 mile hour is going to be like, if it's actually, if it's coming out of the North. I think it was a Bruce DeChannel that told me that once that the Huron's basically the windiest of them all just cause how it lays and obviously depending on what the wind direction is, but yeah, North or South, says it just, it just rolls. We were like that at Saginaw at practice. think that was the least amount of days I got out on the lake. So fished the river a lot. And then of course, term of days were flat, calm and beautiful. So I'm like, that's right.

KK (59:21.826)
would believe it.

Brian Bashore (59:36.162)
We'd like to go back to that place. Cause like you said, second, I'll miss the place. Again, good. There's a lot of good fishing there. A lot of, islands and piles and weeds and rivers. I mean, just, there's a lot of options, a lot of places to fish. So, Florida, we covered a little bit of that Florida fish and any tips for people heading down there in the winter, just call Keith, jumping his boat. He'll have to show you the show you the ins and outs.

KK (59:56.93)
I wish I could do that because I get enough requests to do that. But no, Florida is just a great place. And what's really nice is if you're a walleye fisherman and no electronics at all. I mean, if you can find structure, there's fish on it. You don't know necessarily what fish are on it. It's kind of a surprise after a while, you might learn, this kind of structure is grouper. This kind of structure has snappers, or this is what snappers look like on the depth finders.

So you learn all that, but knowing how to read your electronics, especially side scan, looking for rocks and ledges and things. you know, most of the like wrecks and things are on maps. can find those easy enough, but it's all those little rock spots and, and they call it a live bottom. It's more like a soft coral. you can see those things on the side scan. a lot of times just driving around, you can find those, especially if you kind of found one and a lot of times in that area will be more of them.

And one of those, any kind of structure, there's fish. So, easy enough to, to catch them. mean, I, I have a YouTube channel now, Keith Tobias, think YouTube slash Keith Tobias. and we actually have a playlist called saltwater and I put a lot of the real common setups under there that I as a Northern angler use down in saltwater. Maybe not exactly what a saltwater guy would use, but I kind of.

kind of like doing things a little bit different than some of the saltwater guys down there and tend to catch plenty of fish. just a fun, I mean, if you ever get a chance to go down there, you know, don't hesitate just to find a good guy, go out with them, have fun. Cause the golf is still 95 % nothing and 5 % structure. So it can take a little while to find some of those spots, but once you find them, they're, they're fun.

Brian Bashore (01:01:45.324)
Well, I suppose there's underwater current, so every little piece of structure is just kind of a magnet to many of those. Title current, yeah.

KK (01:01:50.034)
Yeah, a little bit. mean, you tidal current, you know, tide makes a difference, know, slack tide is no good. Moving water is typically good, you know, tide against the wind typically is harder boat control. You know, you got to anchor up a little bit different. So there are some differences down there, but the good news is you can read your electronics. You can find structure and whether there's structure, there's always fish.

Brian Bashore (01:02:16.49)
I fished in the Gulf out of Venice quite a bit and further out, know on rigs and stuff and yeah, you're exactly right Okay, I can find anything floating. I can go catch triple tail under Pretty pretty simple. I go over these and it's gonna be Kobia, know, they're always looking for the big schools of you know, bull reds, you know shallow, but Yeah, yeah way way fun. But yeah when you get a little head out sure You're not kidding you find structure and those guys out there like to keep it pretty simple. It's a hook and a weight

KK (01:02:20.94)
Mm

KK (01:02:27.436)
No.

KK (01:02:35.03)
That's that. In Shoria.

KK (01:02:46.307)
a lot of hook and a weight but I use a lot of jigs I use a lot of hair jigs so little bit different out there but

Brian Bashore (01:02:48.534)
But I Yep. I threw a lot of plastics on immediately and he went with guides and pulled out some gulp out of my pocket and put that on jigs and just was putting on a clinic, catching some of the fish and they're like, what are you using? Like, how have you never used this gold shrimp before? You know, and yeah.

KK (01:03:00.961)
Yes.

KK (01:03:07.648)
It's so easy down there. You don't have to, but there are times when it's not so easy. then if you got to do tricks, then it is easy again.

Brian Bashore (01:03:16.6)
Right. Hey, if fishing was easy, everybody would do it, but 57 million people are. So, you know, it's easy sometimes.

KK (01:03:22.191)
It's easy sometimes. So, yeah, slow water is fun. I enjoy doing that now. I enjoy fishing up here. People ask why don't I just stay down in salt water? It's such good fishing. I still love this one for walleyes. mean, they're, just so diverse, you know, six inches of water, a hundred feet of water anywhere in between. So that's why I keep doing both and all ice fishing too. So I like doing that.

Brian Bashore (01:03:44.898)
Yeah. as well as we'll keep you thinking, they keep you on your toes. Cause I don't know there's a smart fish versus a dumb fish out there, but I'm to put the whole into a smarter fish category. So, or don't wranglers. don't know whatever, if we're making them smart, but if you could, leave the listeners and viewers with a little nugget, a tip to help them on their angling or whether it's weekend fishing or professional journey, what kind of little tip you got for the listeners.

KK (01:04:14.73)
No, think the biggest thing is, not to fish too many memories. a lot of anglers, I did great on this spot. You know, people will text or personal message me on Facebook. I whacked them on such and such a spot. And I'm like, great. When did you do that? like two months ago, you know, and I'm. They're like, think they're helping me, but really anglers are like that. We remember the best days of fishing very specifically.

And a lot of times you go back to that same spot, do the same thing, do, know, everything is with your memory and you can waste half your day or more of your day could waste the whole day. Not just going around looking with your electronics or trying to find different fish. So, you know, do pay attention to how you catch a fish. If you get similar conditions again in the future fish that way again, but get off of them real quick. If you, if you know, you don't need to hit 10 spots to know a pattern isn't working. You hit one or two.

pattern ain't working, now you gotta figure out something else. So don't fish too many memories.

Brian Bashore (01:05:15.48)
True, true. We all have been probably guilty of getting caught up in that and, you don't get to DMs or the private messages to say, Hey, that spot sucks. Don't go there. I've never, I don't ever catch fish there, which is sometimes just as valuable as, Hey, I'm catching them here. But like I that's first thing I ever asked anybody who was trying to offer up something. like, well, I got them there last summer. I'm like, Great. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. and it was a year ago and near summer was 10 degrees. Cool. It's like, okay.

KK (01:05:24.256)
Yeah.

KK (01:05:35.638)
But then there's a moon or there's an August because that's different.

Brian Bashore (01:05:44.61)
Thanks, you know, maybe it's something you can drive by but the reality is trust your electronics. They don't lie No, as long as you know what you're looking at. So Yep. All right. Well, thank you a ton Keith Thanks for your time and good luck at the championship again And we will see you on the water here sometime soon if not, you know I'll be out there see you at Bismarck you're going to that one next year That's gonna kick off the season and I think everybody's excited for that The weather will be what the weather will be but it's the Missouri River. So

KK (01:05:52.002)
There you go.

KK (01:05:55.926)
That's right.

KK (01:06:12.418)
Should be fun.

Brian Bashore (01:06:13.568)
Should be fun. So all right. Thank you all for tuning into this episode of real talk fishing and stay safe and we'll see you on the water