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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Jesse French
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man Podcast. My name is Jesse French. I'm your host today and fellas you're in for a treat today. Cause we have a dear friend of Restoration Project named Jeff Zaugg and Jeff, man, I'm just pumped for this conversation for a lot of reasons and it's going to unfold, but I met Jeff. I think it was five years ago and I think it started, I picked him up at his RV at like.
kind of an ungodly hour. It maybe was like 4:45. It was very dark. I had never met him before. I had been on a few zoom calls and at that point Restoration Project and Jeff's organization, Dad Awesome, were partnering on this awesome a hundred mile bike ride. And so I picked Jeff up at 4 45 and hopped in my little car and instantly I was like, man, this is a deep well of a man who brings so much energy and thoughtfulness and wisdom to life.
And that's just sparked a fun friendship personally, and then organizationally. so Jeff, man, thank you for joining us here today.
Jeff Zaugg
That's a great memory. And it was after a stressful couple, like long days of travel in the RV. And I'm like, I need someone to pick me up. Cause my wife wanted to come cheer with our daughters. thank you. was just wanting very dark that RV park tried to find you. like, where is this guy? And then we talked about ranching for a while on the drive in it's like early morning conversation, ranching parallels to fatherhood. There's lots of them. I'm sure.
Jesse French
Really, really good memory. good. Well, Jeff, excited for this conversation because we get to explore the realm of fatherhood and really get to do so using just some awesome, awesome categories and some work that you have done in your organization and around a book that you just finished writing that is going to really be released here in March. And so pumped about that. But I would love maybe we're going to get into some of those specifics, but give the listeners a sense of who you are. Introduce us to Dad Awesome.
Yeah, tee it up from there.
Jeff Zaugg
For sure, yeah, and again, grateful. Love, RP, love your team and Jesse, thanks for this invitation. So I am a husband, 20 years this summer we're celebrating. So Michelle is my best friend, my adventure partner, and ⁓ we have a lot of fun and we've been through a lot of moments of God, need you here. And those, the best stories, right? Have those moments of.
this is gonna take a move of God because we're stuck and we don't know how we're gonna get from here to here. we've even in the last, yeah, handful of years been through a lot of those and our marriage has gotten better actually. So if you're a dad, if you're a man in a Valley moment, the hard stuff makes for better stories. So we have four daughters, 12 is the oldest and down to four years old is our youngest.
It's fun that they're into dance and theater. So you start to frame up, who's this guy? Dance and theater dad. And then they're into surfing. They all, four of them surf and we're about to compete and they all compete in Spartan obstacle course races. So we're about to have a Spartan weekend in Northeast Florida. And my oldest girl, she, she's won the last two years. So she has this expectation. She wins. get this, my youngest was only three last year and you have to be four to compete. And she,
basically begged her way into dad having a lack of integrity and changing her birth dates last year to get her in. yeah, she begged her way in and then my nine year olds like she had to beg her way in. She wanted to do competitive versus just casual, the kid races. So I changed her birth date. So I changed two birth dates. If you're from Spartan and you want to turn me in, yeah, I guess a lawsuit waiting to happen. ⁓ Yeah. So we, we live though, we moved two years ago after
Jesse French
your way.
Jeff Zaugg
two and a half years of traveling the country, like three laps around the country in the RV. We moved to Northeast Florida and we live, we're so grateful. I'm a surfer who lived away from the beach for two decades and now I live near the waves again, so.
Jesse French
I know man. ⁓ Jeff, I love that. I love that snapshot and just, you know, sometimes we can, we can be guilty, right? I'm just kind of stereotyping people into categories. I totally do it. But I just love that as I was listening to you and talk about your family, I have like the image of dance and theater again, like broad brush here that we're painting with and then Spartan races in which the three year old daughter is like, yeah, I'm in, I'm doing like the category just had a, you know,
and made to go off and everything's mixed up.
Jeff Zaugg
Well, have to add right through this window. So right here I have, I'm a little crazy with rope swings. So I have, you all through the RV travel, we would put rope swings all around our RV, find whatever trees, whatever anchor points. And I've developed as a tall guy, I get the anchor points pretty high up these ropes. They've taken the rope swing though, it was just always swinging out and back in my mind and my girls fully on their own, put two by sixes between bar stools and made like a launch ramp. And they've done circular rope swings where they have this, they kind of,
two or three steps and launch and then circular. it's pretty like, I didn't pronounce this wrong. Cirque du Soleil, Cirque du Soleil. It's like in that category of like extreme circus hanging with one arm and, and then, yeah, so we're, we're in that mode in our backyard.
Jesse French
love it. I feel like that needs to be, I mean, we're going to get into it, but one of the things that I love about your invitation to dads is offering some wonderful categories, but then also being super practical. So to that note, feel like the Cirque du Soleil circle rope swing, the kit, the guide, the whatever video for that, that needs to be made, Jeff.
Jeff Zaugg
like, I have a dream. Here's the, I'll just put it out there. If someone else wants to invent this, just bring me on as a partner. ⁓ but I want to develop a crossbow that shoots a rubber or a bean bag, just something up and over those points. So basically it comes in like as a Pelican case, you're putting together this crossbow at a park and it's got a spool of, you know, waxy threat. And so instead of, could throw it over, but if you had a crossbow to shoulder and shoot your lead line, everyone's like, who is this dad? Who is this dad?
and how do I become their friend? So I wanted to call the crossbow, the dad awesome, the dad awesome. And it's just like, it's a crossbow and, but I don't have the time to manufacture. any listener who wants to get it done, just give me a sliver, just give me a sliver of the royalties.
Jesse French
That's brilliant. man. And really, that's paying homage to, mean, in my opinion, the greatest Disney cartoon of all time, Robin Hood, right? Where he shoots the crossbow across the drawbridge and they go over it like.
Jeff Zaugg
That's it. That's it. The seed is in my mind. Yeah.
Jesse French
So great. Well, okay. Already, you know, we've recorded for five or six minutes and if you can't tell already, we're in for a treat here with Jeff to explore. Yeah. The exciting, the creative and also the meaningful. So, Jeff, tell us about Dad Awesome. Just about a little bit of the Genesis around that and how that came to be and the work that that does.
Jeff Zaugg
Yeah, so I'm a business guy turned pastor accidentally and with all kinds of like pushback of no, it's not for me, not for me. And I became, you I was a campus pastor, this large campus, thousands of people, and I don't even know how to hold a microphone. like, I don't know how to stand on stage. I don't know what to do. But I stumbled into pastoring, so grateful from a leadership. Like I care about people deeply. I'm pastoring, but yet I'm like, I'm not the theological guy. I'm just a pastor trying to help. And ⁓ I became a
children's and family pastor. Again, accidentally, the one area of the church I'd never, never served as a volunteer. I all of sudden I'm overseeing 600 plus kids on a weekend. It's just like crazy. And I'm like trying to figure it out. But I, what I realized as a kid's pastor, all these dads walking up and down the hallway, dropping off their kids, picking up their kids, we were doing nothing to help that dad become an awesome dad. We weren't doing any resourcing, any small groups, any challenges, any cheering on. And so I started an experiment.
And I called the experiment Dad Ventures. That was the plan. A dad taking their kids on adventures. Let's an adventure a father. And I recorded the first episode of Dad Ventures and my wife watched it. She's like, I hate it. I don't like the name. And so, so she, so it never released Dad Venture episode, never released. I went and re-recorded it as Dad Awesome. And it was just supposed to be a little 10 week experiment. Let's, let's help out some dads and my, I was off of social media for that year, taking a break and.
So about 30 buddies and I went through these 10 weeks of some activation of let's become a little more dad awesome. Let's receive love from our father in heaven who is all things awesome. And let's bring that love to our kids and let's do it practically each week. So after the experiment, I just kept going and it was never for a job. I just kept going for about three more years. Dad Awesome was a weekly podcast, small group curriculum, daily text message.
We started these activation events that I mentioned, the 100 mile bike ride that you brought up. And so it all of a sudden became more than what I could do in my day off, in my mornings and evenings. so, yeah, went full time five and a half years ago and the mission has now become, dad awesome is awareness, like we're doing right now. It's get into a dad's earbuds as they're washing dishes, working out, taking a hike, driving, just encourage them, share some discoveries. So these are not.
This is the way to be the best dad. It's just like, these are discoveries. And ⁓ half of what makes a dad an awesome dad, way more than half, but I say half is, is who are we becoming? Who are we becoming? Cause our kids are watching. So we do awareness. We do activation events, challenges, Spartan races. We do a hundred mile bike rides, triathlons. We did a half iron man. did 30 of those events all over the country. Activation events. Let's sweat together. Let's grind. Let's press into hard things purposefully because dad life needs resilience and strength, right? And needs brotherhood.
And then the third thing we do is coaching. We call it acceleration, the deeper 10 dads at a time, six week sprints called the accelerator. And so that's what we're up to. And we're, learning. This book was an accidental project that all of a sudden over five years, oh, there's so many discoveries. have to figure out some way to share these core discoveries. So it's based on over 400 podcast interviews that I did, um, got brought into this book called dad awesome. So really grateful.
Jesse French
Ah, so yeah. And those of you that are familiar a little bit with the Breast Recession Project, you probably hear like just the shared heart between Dad Awesome and RP. And we'll get into it a little bit more, but just that deep belief in the goodness of intentional fatherhood. And also just you say it really well, just the need for it of, you know, even just, can we, can we have a source of some encouragement, someone cheering you on in the midst of it, because it is so rewarding. And at times it is.
Even before we hit record on the conversation, you and I were just, we were just talking about it in our own lives, right? I was like, man, this is such a gift and it's, it's tricky. It's a hard deal. Like even what does this look like? You know, driving our daughters to practice, you know, in the car, what does connection look like? And so, so grateful for the work that Dad Awesome is doing. So grateful to call you an ally, Jeff.
Jeff Zaugg
Yeah, same goes both ways. But when you say it's tricky and it's like short term, I feel like I'm missing it. Like, and you did as well in that comment. Like when we feel like, man, I've left, I have so much room to grow. have so much room to bring more of my heart, more of my intentionality. So that's either like that room for growth is either opportunity, vision, potential calling mission, step in, or that whisper is discouragement, shame.
Like I actually have missed it. So like I go that direction and there is a compounded the epidemic of fatherlessness and the epidemic of passivity is truly because the whisper is being listened to of I am not an awesome dad. And some guys listening right now are like, I am not an awesome dad. They're saying this and I so strongly disagree because who you are is not your past or your present. It's like,
who you're called to be is who you are. So that whisper of I can't and it's not me and I've stumbled and I'm too far gone, like is a whisper that I hear every single day as a leader of an organization called Dad Awesome. I hear whispers all the time of my own dad audit that I do on myself is dad awful, dad average, dad angry, dad annoyed, all the DAs, right? Dad annoyed. I'm not dad absent because I, but sometimes my presence could feel absent. Like I've taken my heart and playing it safe.
So I just want to like cheer on and like the whisper is a lie. And that's why almost zero churches are doing fatherhood ministry. Churches are not. Zero percent of churches have fatherhood ministries because most of us have heard this whisper of I'm not enough. I've stumbled too many times. Who am I to do something in this space? So I just want to acknowledge right away, I hear the whispers too.
Jesse French
And I thank you for saying that because I think that is so true. I'm with you lockstep on that. And it can be so easy, right. To for all us to look at the guy down the street, the, you know, author, whoever, right. And play that comparison of like, man, they have it together. They're that awesome. I am that average and to play that whole comparison game. And so just such a good invitation to start this conversation of like, Hey, this is the permanently level playing field of we're all in this space. You've written a book. have organizations that are.
inviting men to intentional fatherhood and we are right there. We are not, you know, the judo black belt 10 steps ahead. So, ⁓ and don't you think too, Jeff, the fact that there is this whisper of, man, I'm blowing it as a dad. I am not dad awesome. Like, I think that just highlights the reality that our fathering matters so much.
that that actually does line up with God's design for us to bring our presence to our kids. would even argue, you know, to those around us, which is fathering, that's the larger conversation, but it is because that is God's joy and God's intent for us that I think it is in the cross airs that there is such criticism that we have around us, that evil would like to do nothing more than to plant those seeds of doubt around that. So in some ways it's this weird confirmation of like the fact that you feel that, that I feel that, we feel that.
Jeff Zaugg
We.
Jesse French
is an affirmation that this matters and that we are actually built and designed to do this.
Jeff Zaugg
fully agree and even the keep it in your own home. Like a lot of people like keep it in your own home. Like great, do your like intentional things you do as a dad, but don't go beyond your like that's all you should just we even within leadership we say lead yourself. Yeah, it's important. Lead yourself, lead your family. That's also a huge deal, but entire the world, even many of your friends are probably saying leave it there like and you're listening to a whisper. I'm listening. It's so easy to hear a whisper. That's enough. That is plenty. Just lead your family.
But don't go the next step of being a light, an encourager, a cheerleader. Go bring what you found to other dads. And so that's, I think the whisper, in some sense, we can fight back the whisper. There's a war there, fight it back. But most times we would say and frame, this is victory. Because I'm leading on the home front as a dad, as an intentional dad, victory, I've arrived. I would disagree and say that like what God's call for every man is to take what you've been given and to go.
find a few others, find a few others and bring it to them. that's even to take it a step further of like, no, we need the ripple effect of us to carry a message out to other men in our sphere.
Jesse French
Yeah, I love it. Really well said. So Jeff, the Dad Awesome book is coming out here in March. So excited for that to be birthed into the world. In the book, offer just some, like readers hear me so clearly, like it's a delightful read. Like the ability that Jeff has to take his own stories, to mine principles out of there in a way that is that encouragement for us as fathers. Like it's a treat to read. And in the book you outline
kind of six different categories or movements. I'll let you kind of speak to that, that really make up the fathering journey to be an intentional dad. And one of them that I'd love to start with, that I think is, that might feel counterintuitive to some people, but when I write it, I'm like, yeah, you are spot on, Jeff, is you actually talk about identity and you invite the readers to consider in the intentional fatherhood journey to actually first consider our sonship.
and our, our identity as beloved sons of the father. And you talk about like this conversation that you had with Morgan Snyder where he said, you know, to become a son has changed everything for me. Would love to tee that up in terms of why does our sonship matter so much to our fatherhood, our identity as beloved sons of God? Why does that actually impact how we show up with our children?
Jeff Zaugg
Yeah. Can I share two stories? Short stories? my dad would bring a clipboard to every basketball game. I was a basketball player in high school, pretty tall dude. and he would not a part of the coaching staff. He would sit in the stand in the crowd and just keep stats for his son because it was his way of showing love to me was specific affirmation. And there's a little bit of, he liked to show my stats compared to my teammates stats and made a show like, this is how good you are. Right. That was his way.
of showing love was a stat keeping dad. And if I had a bad game, I could basically count on silence for my dad. The clipboard led to silence. And all through high school, this clipboard was a part of my basketball experience. And I just like, I didn't want to go back to my dad. I didn't want to ride home with my dad shotgun in his truck after a bad game. Yet I really did enjoy this clear affirmation of like, I killed, success means more love for my dad.
But I took that for a call it a decade into college and young professional and young married. Like I was living like I could earn love from my boss, from my girlfriend. I could earn love from God. I could serve more. I could do more. And so my identity was earn it, work for it, strive for it. And really that's a servant or employee type mindset is you strive to earn and then you have some and then you could lose it at any moment.
And what I realized in a meeting with two prayer counselors, and I am a huge fan of doing this, some of the inner healing work with a prayer counselor, with a Christian counselor, is there's a lie I was believing, which is you can earn love. You can work and earn and strive for love. The truth is, here's the truth statement. My heavenly father has set the scoreboard to infinity. And I can see,
You guys can picture probably a scoreboard in a high school gymnasium. I can see the infinity sign. In fact, I was looking to see if I had my hat handy. So dad, awesome. The logo of dad awesome is a little bit of that infinity sign built into the D a logo infinity. My heavenly father has set the scoreboard to infinity. So we could have the best conversation today. Jesse, we could like, I could feel like I delivered the mission of the book, the calling that God's called us to. I could feel like, man, and I can't earn any more love from God.
because I've glorified him through being well-spoken on a podcast. I can't lose any love by going and snapping at my two youngest daughters because they're actually in the next room. My wife said a doctor appointment. They're watching some movie right now next door. I ⁓ truly, can't lose love and I can't gain love because he set it to infinity. Well, the second story quick is I was on the seven mile bridge in the Florida Keys. There's a bridge that's seven miles long and I'm...
I'm riding my bike because I'm training for a hundred mile bike ride. And we are in the keys at this point, trying to avoid cold weather as a family. took a few weeks in the keys and
Jesse French
And which is hilarious. Hold on. I just didn't interrupt because you're like a Midwest guy and you lived in Minnesota and like Wisconsin and all those things. And so you're, you're tough. You're not cold weather like.
Jeff Zaugg
So I actually, yeah, Northern Wisconsin and Minnesota was where all of my growing up. But when you're in an RV as a family of six, there's just not even space for winter jackets and snow boots and your systems will freeze. These actual, the RV park shut down because the piping can't handle it. So we had to go south. We rented our house. We had no option to go home. We had nowhere to live. So we had to go south. So we did Southern Texas one winter and Southern Florida one winter. You just try to find affordable RV parks to make it through the winter.
Yeah.
Jesse French
literal southern migration is happening.
Jeff Zaugg
This specific day though, I'm cycling, I prayed before the ride, because I was by myself, I was like, God, if you don't want me to go on this ride, because there's all kinds of, there's semi-zipping along this road, the floor is the most deadly state for cycling. was like, if you don't want me go on this ride, let me know. So I take off my ride, praying for a sign if I'm not supposed to go on this ride. I was gonna go 60 miles that day. And I go down and there's parallel bridges, and literally I started my ride on a dead end bridge, to a dead end.
And like, could God be any clearer? Don't go on this bike ride. Don't go like a dead end. So I had to bike right by my car. Like at seven miles later, I'm passing my car and it's easy time. I just hang it up, be done. But I'm like stubborn. I'm like, no, that wasn't a clear enough sign. God, maybe I should go on this ride. So I go on and I get a flat tire in the middle of seven mile bridge and it is a low railing.
And semis are going by, the whole bridge shakes when semis go by. And there's nowhere, even a good Samaritan, someone who wanted to pick me up and help me out, there's nowhere, there's no shoulder to pull off. It's dangerous. So I, for an hour, I had issue after issue changing this flat tire. And I'm praying and truly on this bridge, and I have a pocket knife that was gifted from a mentor who said, hey, remember your heavenly father is still fathering you. That's the reminder of this knife. So as I'm on this bridge, I'm just praying, God, would you change this tire with me?
would you change this tire with me? And that identity as a love son of God, my identity of God is my source. I don't have to prove and earn his love, shows up almost every day in my fatherhood. Like I did get that tire changed. I did bike off that bridge. I did not get it in accidents. I didn't have to walk it in my bike cleats, you three and a half miles off this bridge. I mess up all the time. I bought a lawnmower that turned out I got scammed. It was a horrible lawnmower as we bought this house in Florida. And I felt,
All of these feelings of, am a failure, I am incapable of making good decisions to take care of this new house I just bought, I'm irresponsible with finance. Like all these lies, these statements that are lies, the truth is I'm a loved son of God and he's still fathering me. And from the source of his love, I can take a hike to the waterfall of God's love, get soaking wet with his love, know who I am. I'm a loved son of God, the scoreboard's at infinity. And then,
From that place, I can show up as a loving father. And I have to hear these messages on repeat of who am I becoming? Where is my source? Bringing steadiness, bringing softness, bringing calmness, bringing, instead of being reactive and bring chaos to my family and being like, I can actually carry a different level of calm and wisdom because of God's love and who I am. And I'm not earning it and I'm not thrown off because something happened with my marriage. And I still stumble every day, I have to like,
I have to apologize so many times to my little girls and truly Jesse, every apology, every time I go to one of my daughters and say, I'm sorry, it's a four times blessing. Their little heart gets a little closer to mine. And this is, this is identity stuff. Like by being humble and apologizing, I'm actually operating from the strength of love with God, my father.
Now they get a little closer to me. My other daughters are seeing dad apologize to their sister. And they actually like their hearts turn a little bit more towards me. My wife thinks I'm more attractive when I apologize. When I'm humble, she thinks that's times three. And then God in heaven, he's honored and glorified by a humble heart coming back to say, I was wrong. I'm turning back towards with softness and humility. So all of these things, they play together. All the six core discoveries play together, but identity has to.
Everything we put into intentionality, freedom, other core discoveries is short-lived under our own, living out of our own. I'm muscling my way into being dad awesome. It's all short-lived and it all, we fall flat and we hurt people if we don't have our identity in the right place.
Jesse French
Yeah, gosh, that's so good. Like, man, so many good pieces of what you just talked about. mean, that the word source that you talked about of this understanding of, of where is the source of my energy, of my identity, like really starting at that square one, believing, cause that's the thing, right? ⁓ fatherhood, like if the source is my own ingenuity is my own like tenacity and work ethic.
man, my kids, my family, like are toast, right? Because that is, it is so limited. And you say it well, like our kids have a sense of what is the presence in which we are bringing to that relationship, right? Is it out of the settled, I am a beloved son. Is it that, or is it I have to perform and therefore, right? Because that performance and I can resonate so much with that, right? That.
If we are not aware of that, we are not living from the identity of a beloved son, like that just gets transferred over into the relationships with our kids.
Jeff Zaugg
Yeah, and when we listen to I'm a failure or I'm like just receiving discouragement on repeat, even when we don't try, it's seeping out into our families is the narrative that I've missed it. I've made this mistake. I've spoken this wrong word. And now it starts to seep into our families is dad is in a different place, heart place because of his actions, because he's ranking himself somewhere else that he needs.
It's just not the reality in the kingdom of heaven. actually put it on my arm is the Greek from the New Testament Romans 8 verse 15 of I am a loved son of God. I'm no longer a slave to fear. I'm a child of God. I'm a loved adopted child of God. I'm like, I need that. I to put my hand on my arm every day and like be remembered. Like I am not going to operate with this fearful under the slavery to fear because this is not God's heart.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah. One of the ways that we talk about it at RP is that the truest thing about us is that we are a beloved son. That is not the, and yet, man, that the story about playing basketball is such a good one, right? Because I think this is the challenge for us as men, right? Because it is putting ourselves in the spaces to be transformed. Because I think like the actual knowledge or the words that you talked about that, you know, that says, I am a beloved son that I'm saying that there is nothing we can do to make God love us more or less.
Those are cognitive things, probably that we could be really good at spitting out and yet it's actually sitting with a place of no, can it actually be embodied and lived as true and not just this is the correct answer that I can spit out.
Jeff Zaugg
Yep. Yep. So good.
Jesse French
One of the really practical things that I think to this point of identity that a good friend of ours, Pablo Saron talks about, he just really gives the practical invitation of to just start each day with the invitation to God of would you father me today? ⁓ and that is so simple, but it is so wise. I think going back to the identity piece, the, the six discoveries that you talk about in your book.
I think even that simple prayer is a way to participate in that discovery, right? That Lord, would you father me? Would you guide me? Would you be the source of who I am? And it isn't me. And so, so practical.
Jeff Zaugg
Yeah, invitations like that prayer, declarations and figuring out moments of in the car, on the walk home, on the drive home. We do have where we're at in Florida, we have a ⁓ freezing cold pool right now. We have a freezing cold pool that's not quite cold blunge temperature, but it's cold enough to like, it makes you think twice before you get in. So that's where I pray a daily prayer in the morning is like, I have an anchor moment in my day that reminds of love of the Father. So I think that's the more we can have moments in our day.
to remind that we're moving this direction. It's not a rival. It's like I'm moving in the direction, not of earning, but of living in, living in. We get to actually choose to not live in that reality. We can do that with our words and our thoughts. So yeah, those anchor moments, like figure those out or add something. I just encourage every dad, add something that's gonna draw them back towards, it doesn't have to be a tattoo on the arm. It could be an anchor moment of the day.
Jesse French
So good. So, good. Jeff, I'm excited because this conversation is going to wrap up here shortly, but we have part two. So there's more to come where we get to explore more of Jeff's writing and his dad awesome book, more just continued real world engagement and wonderings around the intentional fatherhood journey. But where can guys find you? Where can they find dad awesome? where can they grab the book? Yeah. Give us the low down there.
Jeff Zaugg
Yeah, amazing. we're like any ways that we can serve any of the men in the dads, are always like we want to cheer for and share what we've discovered really. So so dad awesome.org dad awesome.org is the website. The book will be on will be on Amazon, all the online retailers in its.
at Dad Awesome on Instagram. So we're to be ratcheting up our resources on Instagram as well. yeah, anyways, we can help from our coaching cohorts to our book to our activation events, hoping to be back in. Well, you guys got men all over the country, but that hoping to be back to Colorado with one of our activation events. So yeah, glad to help.
Jesse French
Love it. Jeff, thank you. Thank you for this chat. Excited for more. We got more, more in the works and thank you for your invitation to us today. Grateful to have you here,
Jeff Zaugg
Grateful, this is fun.
Jesse French
Cool. Thanks, Jeff.