Updates From the #1 AI Investor: Leopold's NVIDIA & Anthropic Strategy

We discuss Leopold Aschenbrenner’s AI-focused portfolio, including his reported short on NVIDIA and large private investment in Anthropic.

We also cover NVIDIA’s bond offering and the idea that the AI infrastructure trade is shifting toward power, networking, and data-center buildout rather than just chips.

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TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Leopold’s AI Portfolio
1:24 NVIDIA Short Explained
3:43 Bond Deal Breakdown
7:35 Why He Rotated
9:19 Anthropic Surprise Stake
12:19 Next Infrastructure Wave
14:28 Picking the Winners
17:55 Optics and Fiber Edge
22:00 Bubble or Not?
23:25 Energy Is the Bet
24:47 Closing Thoughts

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RESOURCES

Josh: https://x.com/JoshKale

Ejaaz: https://x.com/cryptopunk7213

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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

Creators and Guests

Host

Ejaaz Ahamadeen

Host

Josh Kale

What is Limitless: An AI Podcast?

Exploring the frontiers of Technology and AI

Josh:
Leopold Aschenbrenner, that 24-year-old guy who invests in AI,

Josh:
he's very clearly the best AI investor in the world.

Josh:
There is word on the street that his notional position in this fund is now over $20 billion.

Josh:
And Ejaz, we were looking at one of your posts from, what, a month ago,

Josh:
and it was 13. So the fund seems to be doubling basically every quarter.

Josh:
And we have some pretty serious and interesting updates on what Leopold has been investing in.

Josh:
You'll note that in the last episode, we covered his portfolio.

Josh:
He was actually short a company that a lot of people are familiar with,

Josh:
the largest one in the world, NVIDIA.

Josh:
And nobody could figure out why. He had over $9 billion worth of shorts on the

Josh:
largest and hottest AI company in the world.

Josh:
Today, we have some news that might actually uncover the reason why.

Josh:
It comes in the form of a debt offering. NVIDIA is actually raising money,

Josh:
which doesn't seem to make sense on the surface.

Josh:
Why would a company as big as NVIDIA be raising what just closed as $25 billion

Josh:
in cash when their margins in particular are so, so high?

Josh:
So on the episode today, we're going to talk about Leopold's portfolio,

Josh:
how he's doing so well, what he's looking forward to, and what he's positioning

Josh:
himself to, to go next, but also what's going on with NVIDIA.

Ejaaz:
So Leopold Ashenbrenner, for context, ex-open AI researcher,

Ejaaz:
raised a fund about one and a half to two years ago. It was a small casual raise

Ejaaz:
of $200 million, I believe.

Ejaaz:
And since then, since his last 13F filings, the fund is worth $13.7 billion.

Ejaaz:
And so everyone obviously wanted to know what positions he was taking,

Ejaaz:
what his thesis was, what was the next major trade. Now, it's important to understand

Ejaaz:
up until a month ago, Leopold was extremely bullish about everything AI,

Ejaaz:
particularly picks and shovels.

Ejaaz:
So we're talking about the NVIDIAs, the GPU makers, all that kind of stuff.

Ejaaz:
And then a month ago, it was revealed that he wasn't especially bullish on the

Ejaaz:
semiconductor landscape. He was still bullish on things like memory and power,

Ejaaz:
those kinds of bottleneck constraints.

Ejaaz:
And maybe he was bullish near clouds as well. But he wasn't bullish,

Ejaaz:
the most valuable company in the world, NVIDIA.

Ejaaz:
And we have a total of $9 billion worth of puts in NVIDIA, ASML,

Ejaaz:
and Oracle. So these are companies that are key to the infrastructure boom,

Ejaaz:
which is what has been heralded as the best and most certain trade in AI.

Ejaaz:
So people started getting concerned. and they were like, is this the AI bubble

Ejaaz:
popping? Like, we don't see any signs of this. NVIDIA is still selling so many GPUs.

Ejaaz:
What could be the problem? And since then, we've uncovered...

Ejaaz:
A few things. The major one being that NVIDIA just raised $25 billion in a bond

Ejaaz:
offering from external capital.

Ejaaz:
So what this means effectively is they're raising money outside of their balance

Ejaaz:
sheet. So it causes the question, which is why on earth is the most valuable

Ejaaz:
company in the world that has the most money that's making the most money that

Ejaaz:
has the highest margins raising $25 billion?

Josh:
In fact, they weren't only going to plan to raise, they were only going to plan

Josh:
to raise 20 billion and they actually wound up raising 25 billion which was

Josh:
more than three times oversubscribed and it's funny when in the last episode

Josh:
that we were talking about this portfolio are we in a bubble

Josh:
how do we know when the top is getting closer to being in we're like don't worry

Josh:
about it all these companies are spending a tremendous amount of capex but they

Josh:
have a huge amount of revenue to fund all that it's coming right off the balance

Josh:
sheet this is the first time since 2021 in the case of nvidia where they're actually raising money

Josh:
outside of the balance sheet they're not taking their money on the balance sheet

Josh:
which i believe is about 12 billion dollars they currently have.

Josh:
And that leads me to a few questions. It's like, Leopold is short,

Josh:
NVIDIA is raising some debt, when it seems like they have infinite cash and infinite margins.

Josh:
What's actually going on here? So IJAS, maybe you could help us unpack what

Josh:
this deal actually was. This is a bond offering, which is not just a general

Josh:
fundraise. It's a little bit different.

Josh:
And at the end of the day now, NVIDIA now has 25 billion additional dollars

Josh:
on their balance sheet for what I assume is a pretty low rate.

Ejaaz:
So let me give you both sides of the story here.

Ejaaz:
NVIDIA has around $13.7 billion on their cash balance sheet.

Ejaaz:
So this is money that they could just spend to do whatever they want.

Ejaaz:
So the question then is, why are they raising external capital?

Ejaaz:
Well, the analogy is, think of you purchasing a house. Typically,

Ejaaz:
most people would, if they have the money, they would still,

Ejaaz:
take a mortgage out. Why? Because you can, you know, use your capital for other

Ejaaz:
purposes, and you can just borrow money at a really cheap rate.

Ejaaz:
Now, interest rates have been pretty cataclysmic for a while now.

Ejaaz:
But if you're NVIDIA, the most valuable company in the world,

Ejaaz:
that has the most valuable stock in the world, the most desirable stock in the

Ejaaz:
world, hey, you could raise at pretty decent rates. And I've got the breakdown

Ejaaz:
over here for the $25 billion bond offering.

Ejaaz:
They've got bonds that range between two to 30 years. So it's effectively free

Ejaaz:
money that they're raising at. The interest rates are almost nothing.

Ejaaz:
It's almost as good as government yield bond rates itself, which is like the

Ejaaz:
best kind of offering that you could potentially get.

Ejaaz:
And there were 4x oversubscribed for people who wanted to help invest in this money.

Ejaaz:
So $85 billion worth of capital wanted to kind of pummel into this $25 billion

Ejaaz:
raise. So NVIDIA could just have their pick of the litter. Now,

Ejaaz:
if you want to look at the reasons behind and why they're doing this.

Ejaaz:
Nvidia's stated claim officially is, this is just financial bookkeeping.

Ejaaz:
We wanna pay off and refinance some debt that we have on our balance sheet,

Ejaaz:
which sounds familiar because Google did something very similar about three

Ejaaz:
weeks ago, and then they did it earlier on this year in February.

Ejaaz:
So you could take the stated claim that this is financial bookkeeping,

Ejaaz:
but the other side of it is.

Ejaaz:
Does it seem pretty coincidental that NVIDIA, Amazon, Google,

Ejaaz:
and I think three of the other hyperscalers have all raised external debt financing

Ejaaz:
in the last month and a half?

Ejaaz:
And it's a mixture of equity selling, which is what kind of like Google's done

Ejaaz:
just last week or three weeks ago.

Ejaaz:
And it's a mixture of bond raises as well. So Leopold could be right in the

Ejaaz:
sense that this might be marking the start of a bubble popping or coming down.

Ejaaz:
The house of cards are coming down.

Ejaaz:
If this is the sign of a levered bet or a levered raise. But right now,

Ejaaz:
if you look at the financial structuring of this entire thing,

Ejaaz:
it doesn't entirely say that.

Josh:
That's what I'm thinking too, is I'm looking at Leopold's portfolio.

Josh:
I'm like, man, $9 billion is a lot of money to be short NVIDIA.

Josh:
And another thing that I found out as we were researching is on May 18th,

Josh:
the board of NVIDIA actually authorized an additional $80 billion in buybacks

Josh:
and raised their dividend from a penny to 25 cents per share.

Josh:
So they multiplied the dividend by 25 times.

Josh:
They pledged 80 billion dollars to buy back shares from shareholders and a company

Josh:
doesn't really hand 80 billion dollars back to shareholders and raise their dividend 25x

Josh:
in the same month that it borrows out of need so there are these two conflicting

Josh:
things it's like well they're clearly not borrowing out of need because they're

Josh:
actually giving back to the shareholders so the question why why are they doing

Josh:
this well because it's cheap money and it seems like the way that this ai

Josh:
pump this ai bubble is being funded is just slightly shifting to a new model because

Josh:
everyone wants to be participating everyone wants to be involved in these capital

Josh:
raises nvidia has recognized this they could do so even more cheaply by issuing

Josh:
their own bonds than they can from going anywhere else so they're like hey

Josh:
if we could take some money off the table we're going to do that and it seems

Josh:
like nvidia is actually just doing just fine which leads us to the question

Josh:
of like what is leopold actually thinking how is his

Josh:
mind changed over time i mean you looked at the nvidia stock it hasn't been

Josh:
doing great the one you were just showing on screen it's not like nvidia has

Josh:
been crushing recently but it's still like five trillion dollars most valuable

Josh:
company in the world i mean only down seven percent in a month is

Josh:
nowhere, considering everything else has been pumping. But it's still like,

Josh:
I don't know, it doesn't seem like it's doing that bad.

Ejaaz:
So listen, I think that NVIDIA is not going anywhere. I think their products,

Ejaaz:
their GPUs, and now the CPU line that they just opened up a few weeks ago is

Ejaaz:
going to do overwhelmingly well. There is a surplus, an exponential surplus

Ejaaz:
of demand for AI products.

Ejaaz:
And there's only one main machine provider that can support that type of demand.

Ejaaz:
And that is NVIDIA. So I don't think they're going anywhere.

Ejaaz:
What I do think is the picks and shovel AI trade is extremely overcrowded.

Ejaaz:
And that's what Leopold's most recent portfolio positioning tells us.

Ejaaz:
Like, I mean, let's take a look at this, right? So as of their last 13F filing,

Ejaaz:
they were pretty bearish on the semiconductor landscape,

Ejaaz:
through the form of a short position or put position in NVIDIA,

Ejaaz:
ASML, Oracle, and a few other infrastructure scale providers.

Ejaaz:
But at the same time, Leopold was very long companies in the memory sector or

Ejaaz:
in the power sector or in the neocloud sector iron is one of his biggest positions.

Ejaaz:
And that since his 30 net filing is up 20 so like you know again he's hitting

Ejaaz:
some nails on the head but he's bearish some layers of the semiconductor or

Ejaaz:
infrastructure stack specifically and that tells me one very clear thing which is

Ejaaz:
leopold isn't bearish um ai infrastructure i don't think he's calling it a top

Ejaaz:
on the bubble he just thinks that the

Ejaaz:
trade itself on picks and shovel is overcrowded and that money is going to rotate somewhere else.

Ejaaz:
So if the question is, where is that money rotating?

Ejaaz:
There's two answers. The most obvious answer is it's going to the next infrastructure

Ejaaz:
bottleneck, which we've spoken about on previous episodes is power,

Ejaaz:
it's memory, it's data center networking, it's stuff like that.

Ejaaz:
We've spoken about this on previous episodes.

Ejaaz:
And then there's this other secret investment that was uncovered a few weeks ago, right?

Josh:
Yeah, this is the weird one for me. I was like, wait, this came out of left

Josh:
field. You actually told me this yesterday. And I was like, no way that's true.

Josh:
There's surely no chance that Leopold's Fund, Situational Awareness,

Josh:
20% of the fund owns Anthropic Equity.

Josh:
Yes, the AI company that everyone knows and loves, Anthropic,

Josh:
20% of Leopold Asch and Brenner's fund is involved in Anthropic.

Josh:
How do we know this? Well, it's not totally confirmed, but the Wall Street Journal

Josh:
and a few other publications have apparently sources that are very close to

Josh:
the matter that confirm this.

Josh:
And it seems as if this is a huge wildcard that we were not anticipating in

Josh:
his fund. Because when you publish these 13F filings, the way it works is you

Josh:
just publish your public positions.

Josh:
It doesn't have anything to do with privately held equity.

Josh:
Anthropic, turns out, is a huge amount of privately held equity.

Josh:
And that's where we get to this $20 billion expected valuation of his portfolios.

Josh:
Because, I mean, 20% of the fund being in Anthropic, and he's been in it,

Josh:
what, EJAS, for over a year now? Like he invested early 2025?

Josh:
That's like, being invested in Anthropic is like dog years. Each year is like

Josh:
seven. So a year in Anthropic feels like a tremendous return.

Josh:
And that's a huge readjustment to his portfolio when we see this?

Josh:
Because now it feels like we have a much more clear picture.

Ejaaz:
Yeah. So the first time he invested either privately or through the fund in

Ejaaz:
a VC investment in Anthropic was in March 2025.

Ejaaz:
That was when Anthropic was worth $60 billion.

Ejaaz:
Double digits. Now of Anthropic's recent valuation, they're valued at $965 billion.

Ejaaz:
That is a 15x markup. And if you do the math, as we're showing on the screen

Ejaaz:
today, his liquid portfolio, so that's the thing that's reported in the 13F,

Ejaaz:
as of his recent 13F filings was worth $13.7 billion,

Ejaaz:
with the anthropic stake that he supposedly has as reported by the Wall Street

Ejaaz:
Journal, adds another $7 billion,

Ejaaz:
bringing him to a total AUM of $20 billion. Now, if you're,

Ejaaz:
how crazy this is. Bill Ackman, one of the most famed investors in the entire

Ejaaz:
world who's been in this game for 30 to 40 years.

Ejaaz:
His fund is worth just around $20 billion, Pershing Capital.

Ejaaz:
Leopold's been in the game for about a year and a half.

Ejaaz:
And this guy is 24 years old. He has zero, and I must emphasize,

Ejaaz:
zero investing experience, right?

Ejaaz:
But he's made some of the most amazing calls ever. And the craziest part about

Ejaaz:
all of this, and I've said this on previous episodes, is that he gave us the

Ejaaz:
entire thesis in a 65-page.

Ejaaz:
AI essay about a year and a half ago when he started his fund,

Ejaaz:
Situational Awareness, called Situational Awareness, that broke down his entire trade.

Ejaaz:
He even described how the money will rotate from semiconductors and infrastructures

Ejaaz:
specifically into other bottleneck constraints.

Ejaaz:
And that's the trade that's playing out today. So it's just extremely impressive.

Ejaaz:
And that tells me where the rest of the money is flowing. If he's bearish NVIDIA,

Ejaaz:
money's going to power, memory, but also he wants to invest in the mines themselves.

Ejaaz:
Screw the picks and shovels, invest in the mines, and Anthropoc is his favorite bet.

Josh:
This seems like the trend. And I think this is probably a little bit ahead of his time.

Josh:
Again as always but it seems like the new trend is pivoting away from the bottleneck

Josh:
thesis over the last what 12 months or so it's been everyone's trying to find

Josh:
the bottlenecks where are they it's in the precious metals it's in the memory

Josh:
it's in ram it's in all these

Josh:
these things that people perceive to be bottlenecks and it's true and that run

Josh:
has happened but it seems as if those are getting close to

Josh:
more fairly priced everyone kind of understands the business they understand

Josh:
the market they understand the revenues that are projected forward and they

Josh:
kind of have a reasonable valuation so a lot of that value has been captured

Josh:
the next rotation is what we're interested in it's where does the money flow

Josh:
after this as you mentioned land power shell kind of the physical infrastructure

Josh:
this seems to be directionally correct

Josh:
when we think about the companies that are most important moving forward when

Josh:
you think about the things most critical to ai it's the actual physical build

Josh:
out it's it's what xai has been doing when you look at xai the company or spacex

Josh:
i should say which is now publicly traded

Josh:
where does all of the revenue come from it has absolutely nothing to do with

Josh:
rocket ships it's the ai build out look at the deal this time with anthropic

Josh:
look at the deal this time with google those account for more than starlink

Josh:
and starship and their entire satellite business combined there's clearly a

Josh:
tremendous amount of value

Josh:
a huge amount of demand and then the question now shifts to who are the people

Josh:
that are building this okay spacex is the obvious answer spacex

Josh:
I mean, after hours last night, he traded at $230 a share. That's $3.1 trillion

Josh:
In value. And we're going to have an entire episode about SpaceX this week because

Josh:
my God, what a run. They just closed the cursor acquisition.

Josh:
They're now valued at $3 trillion.

Josh:
Elon made more money in a day than Warren Buffett did in his whole career.

Josh:
So that is a whole separate thing. But what are they best at?

Josh:
They're best at that hardware infrastructure, at developing the machines that build the machines.

Josh:
And that is where we think, based on Leopold's direction, based on just general

Josh:
trends, that's where the money heads to. So what does that actually look like

Josh:
Ejaz physically manifest? Who are the companies involved?

Josh:
Who is there at the rotation ready to just receive this hot ball of money that's flowing around?

Ejaaz:
Yeah, so it's a lot of the unsexy infrastructure companies, as you mentioned.

Ejaaz:
One popular name that's been passed around over the last month is Marvel.

Ejaaz:
Marvel is the company that Jensen Huang went on stage at Computex,

Ejaaz:
which is like a major AI conference two weeks ago in Taiwan.

Ejaaz:
And he said, this is the next trillion dollar company.

Ejaaz:
Three months prior to him making that statement, NVIDIA had made a one and a

Ejaaz:
half billion dollar investment in Marvel.

Ejaaz:
I don't know where the lines are in terms of like insider trading or market

Ejaaz:
manipulation at this point, but the stock did pump 70% subsequently after he made that statement.

Ejaaz:
I think it's easy to call a top on AI infrastructure right now.

Ejaaz:
And if you think about previous financial crisis, like in 2008,

Ejaaz:
there was a lot of levered positions. There was a lot of financial and market manipulation.

Ejaaz:
We don't quite see the same here yet.

Ejaaz:
And I'll tell you what the distinct differences are. Number one,

Ejaaz:
there are people paying for the products that these companies are creating.

Ejaaz:
So there are real customers buying the products. Back in the dot-com boom,

Ejaaz:
back in the financial crisis, you don't really have this. And then the second thing is.

Ejaaz:
We physically, by the laws of physics, can't lever up right now because we're

Ejaaz:
constrained by human capital.

Ejaaz:
What I mean by that is no matter how much money you raise or throw at the thing,

Ejaaz:
you can't build data centers fast enough. You can't scale memory chips fast

Ejaaz:
enough. You can't build the power lines and scale the energy grid and the infrastructure fast enough.

Ejaaz:
We don't have enough men on the ground. We don't have the capacity to do that.

Ejaaz:
There are laws, regulations, and a ton of red tape that is currently blocking you.

Ejaaz:
So what you have here is an advantage, in my opinion, which is you can view

Ejaaz:
where the money's gonna go, right? So you think that the picks and shovels trade

Ejaaz:
is overtraded or it's overcrowded.

Ejaaz:
That money's gonna flow into power. It's gonna flow into data networking like

Ejaaz:
Astero Labs. It's gonna flow into a bunch of these different companies.

Ejaaz:
And so you need to start thinking, hmm, okay, when will these contracts start to be materialized?

Ejaaz:
When will these chip fabs end up being created? When will SpaceX's rockets start

Ejaaz:
being launched into space, releasing his AI-1 satellites and harvesting the

Ejaaz:
sun's energy to train AI models?

Ejaaz:
What is that timeline? And then the bet I'm taking at least is like I'm investing

Ejaaz:
accordingly based on that.

Ejaaz:
Again, not investment advice, but I just it's how I generally see the money

Ejaaz:
flowing because it's how we've seen it flow from general AI stocks into the

Ejaaz:
semiconductor infrastructure trades, which we've seen over the last year and a half.

Josh:
And if we scroll down a little bit in this artifact we we see that story playing

Josh:
out in his portfolio where it shows

Josh:
the ownership stake that he has on a relative basis the number one category

Josh:
what is it it's power it's energy second to that it's the memory and then it's

Josh:
the the clouds and the gpu miners it's the actual physical infrastructure he wants to

Josh:
own core weave the neo clouds he wants to own the the miners who have switched

Josh:
over to clouds he wants to just own that physical infra because that's where

Josh:
that the true bottleneck is and so sure there's smaller parts along the way.

Josh:
Like you mentioned, the actual build out, the actual hardware,

Josh:
the physical manufacturing of these data centers is such a challenging thing.

Josh:
And it's the biggest bottleneck, if anything, just to get the permits to go build it.

Josh:
Who's solving this problem? Well, SpaceX is trying to put them into outer space.

Josh:
Who's solving the human problem? Well, Tesla is trying to build humanoid robots.

Josh:
But both of those things are a pretty long way out. So in the intermediary,

Josh:
there's a lot of opportunity in white space.

Josh:
And that's what he's going for. So as we start to wrap up this episode,

Josh:
there's like one last thing I think we probably want to mention,

Josh:
which is the subtle nuances that exist in his portfolio that I think are a little

Josh:
surprising and we didn't highlight before.

Josh:
For anyone who's looking to go a little bit deeper, a little more alpha,

Josh:
a lot of it comes in optical and like kind of lower down the stack technology.

Josh:
Ejaz, I know you've been in the weeds about this. How does it work?

Josh:
What is his position? What is his thinking around, I guess, optics in general?

Ejaaz:
Well, if you just generally look at his portfolio position that we're showing

Ejaaz:
on the screen here, CoreWeave and Iron are basically some of the top neocloud providers.

Ejaaz:
So what I mean by that is think of Amazon Web Services, like they create cloud

Ejaaz:
services for any internet company that wants to create a thing.

Ejaaz:
That's what these companies do for any AI company. They have the GPU infrastructure,

Ejaaz:
they set it up for you, they do all the networking such that you don't need

Ejaaz:
to focus on it. You can just train your models, get access to compute,

Ejaaz:
and don't worry about any of the other kind of stuff.

Ejaaz:
CoreWeave and Iron have been Leopold's biggest positions since he started the

Ejaaz:
fund, or he's had very concentrated positions, and they have provided him the biggest returns.

Ejaaz:
Now, I think it's worth pointing out that he still has the biggest positions

Ejaaz:
focused in these two companies. In fact, he's privately invested in a company

Ejaaz:
called Core Scientific, which helps unlock a lot of Core Weave's infrastructure.

Ejaaz:
Provision, which means that he's effectively taken a levered bet on CoreWeave.

Ejaaz:
And the fact that he still has major positions in these companies tells us that

Ejaaz:
that trade, in his opinion, typically isn't over yet.

Ejaaz:
And then if you look at cores and light, these are all optical fiber providers.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you want to understand what that means at a very basic level,

Ejaaz:
typically if you need a semiconductor or GPU chips to speak to each other,

Ejaaz:
requires like a lot of copper wires. And at some point when you have so many of these GPUs,

Ejaaz:
copper wires get overheated. There's a lot of heat resistance.

Ejaaz:
You lose a lot of energy. It becomes extremely inefficient. You know what isn't as inefficient?

Ejaaz:
If you start using optical fibers. And that is kind of like the next leap,

Ejaaz:
the next iteration to build data centers, to network and connect these GPUs,

Ejaaz:
which will allow much quicker data transfer.

Ejaaz:
That's much cheaper, much more cost efficient. And you can end up making more

Ejaaz:
money on the inference or the training compute that you provide.

Ejaaz:
That's another, it's very infrastructure heavy is the point that I'm making.

Ejaaz:
So he's invested in those companies and invested in them at the power level

Ejaaz:
as well. And I think, you know, it's very unsexy to say and talk about,

Ejaaz:
but that is inevitably where the money is falling right now, in my opinion.

Josh:
Yeah, the copper thing was interesting for me because I learned how critical

Josh:
copper has been recently.

Josh:
For a lot of the close data transfer, copper is the only material that anybody wants.

Josh:
And the only time you stop using copper is when it becomes unviable.

Josh:
When you have to transfer data over too long of a distance, or like you mentioned,

Josh:
it gets too hot that's when you switch over to fiber but the combination of

Josh:
these two seems to be all that anybody wants so it's been interesting watching the copper trade

Josh:
as well even though leopold's not really invested in oh yeah you got the copper

Josh:
futures pulled up copper if you go to that one-year chart it's probably looking

Josh:
pretty strong yeah it's like a very strong

Josh:
commodity here because everyone needs it that is the the single most important

Josh:
critical element when transferring high bandwidth data over a very short distance

Josh:
but fiber is the next one so that's been an interesting thing to watch play

Josh:
out i think the materials play is always interesting that is the the base of

Josh:
all base layers is like what is the core material that goes in in order to get intelligence out

Josh:
copper's one of them of course lithium there's a whole bunch of them i think we

Ejaaz:
Need to do uh we're due for that episode material episode josh i i think we need to do this.

Josh:
Um we should go down there because you know what leopold hasn't made his way

Josh:
down there yet and maybe we could front run him for the next rotational thesis

Josh:
we could go all the way down to the bottom of the stack we could go visit the

Josh:
copper mines see how they're making all this stuff happen

Josh:
but i think that is generally speaking the next rotation is from these perceived

Josh:
smaller bottlenecks into the real hard thing which is the hardware and building

Josh:
out these large data centers

Josh:
And whoever's capable of building out the data centers will collect all the

Josh:
money. We just saw what happened with SpaceX, how much money they were able

Josh:
to make because of how in demand these data centers are to have them online.

Josh:
And anyone who's capable of spinning them up, of producing enough,

Josh:
of producing power GPUs. If you could create GPUs with power,

Josh:
you are going to make all the money. And that's kind of where Leopold's at.

Josh:
I guess in summary, we're not in a bubble.

Josh:
Leopold has rotated, should probably still copy trade. Is that right? Does that sound okay?

Ejaaz:
Yeah. Yeah, I'll admit, when I read his 13F, I was like, you're bearish the

Ejaaz:
most valuable company in the world that has like demand projected into 2029.

Ejaaz:
Like that is the worst take ever.

Ejaaz:
And now I see this raise and I'm like, wow, if Nvidia continues to raise external

Ejaaz:
debt, sell equity potentially in the future, if this trend continues,

Ejaaz:
Leopold might be right again.

Ejaaz:
And his portfolio will eclipse the best traders and the best investment funds in the world.

Ejaaz:
I don't know, the guy keeps winning and it's very impressive to see.

Josh:
Yeah. So, I mean, here's the thing is he's never needed to sell anything.

Josh:
Dude's just been long only his whole life. So we'll see how,

Josh:
like you talk about, we talked about Bill Ackman earlier in this episode and

Josh:
dude's been around for 30 years and turns out being around for 30 years is actually

Josh:
harder than making like a 30X.

Josh:
If you can actually sustain this growth, if you can learn how to push the sell

Josh:
button, learn how to kind of hedge against risk, we're starting to see that.

Josh:
I mean, those $9 billion in shorts, he's not actually exposed

Josh:
with $9 billion of cash sitting there short that is through options that is

Josh:
through some leverage so it's

Josh:
not a direct one-to-one short but it's fascinating to watch we will see

Josh:
i am going to continue copy trading the boy leopold because dude has just been

Josh:
correct he is just not wrong so of his entire

Ejaaz:
Portfolio josh what is the one stock that you'd be buying from him.

Josh:
I like the energy stocks i'm a big energy guy i think no matter what even in

Josh:
the case that ai demand slows down energy is still very much in high demand

Josh:
and And the demands of it from the general world are going up only.

Josh:
So even in the absence of AI, we need more energy. We need more electricity.

Josh:
Bloom Energy, a lot of companies that are building electricity throughput,

Josh:
I think, are the ones that I'm most excited about because they seem to be the

Josh:
most hedged. What is the singular trend that is not going to stop no matter

Josh:
what is our demand for energy, electricity, and power?

Josh:
And companies like Bloom Energy deliver on that. So that's the companies that

Josh:
I'm most excited about being long in. when I invest it's on a very long time

Josh:
frame I don't really like to trade much so that's why and that's kind of how

Josh:
I think of things what about you do you have any favorites

Ejaaz:
I uh this is a cheat answer but it's wherever the intersection of what Jensen's

Ejaaz:
investing in and whatever Leopold is investing in so the company that I'm like,

Ejaaz:
copy trading is Marvel, which isn't something that Leopold currently owns,

Ejaaz:
but it does sit very firmly in his optical fiber and power investment bet.

Ejaaz:
And it's the one that Jensen put $1.5 billion behind. I've just noted that whatever

Ejaaz:
Jensen invests in via NVIDIA, whether it's Intel, CoreWeave,

Ejaaz:
or whatever it is, has just gone up only.

Ejaaz:
And so that's currently where I'm at right now. I own some CoreWeave as well,

Ejaaz:
which both Jensen and Leopold have been extremely bullish.

Josh:
Home so dude marvel up 270 in six months i think this is a good pro tip when

Josh:
people like jensen when people like trump they say go buy this stock

Josh:
you should probably go buy it it's paid off in pretty big ways like intel is

Josh:
up how many multiples from the time he bought it marvel is up how many multiples

Josh:
from jensen it's like these guys know what they're talking about or at least

Josh:
they have the ability to influence the outcomes of these companies and in that sense

Josh:
it has been a very wild ride i hope it continues

Josh:
i hope this keeps going it seems like it's probable to keep going

Josh:
i think we're all still long we're all still pretty optimistic and excited and

Josh:
we'll just continue to evaluate day by day

Josh:
coming up next is a spacex episode which i think we're very excited about spacex

Josh:
has been the biggest ipo ever they just closed their deal with cursor and there are a lot of new updates

Josh:
and interesting takes i believe on how to navigate this ipo how the unlock schedule

Josh:
is going to work where all the shares are and and how this is going to play

Josh:
out over the next six months i think is something a lot of people may be interested

Josh:
so that one's coming up next

Josh:
any final thoughts before we wrap up here on leopold portfolio update

Ejaaz:
I'm curious about the skeptics that are listening to this that think that everything

Ejaaz:
we've just said is incorrect and might potentially be wrong um tell us where

Ejaaz:
we're wrong like i'm genuinely curious like i've i stared at the 25 billion,

Ejaaz:
nvidia raised news yesterday and i was like i want to hate on this but,

Ejaaz:
Look at it, looking at it financially, this seems like a sound thing.

Ejaaz:
Like, why wouldn't you raise debt, like risk-free money? Like that makes complete

Ejaaz:
sense. Like borrow other people's money and spend that versus like selling your

Ejaaz:
own equity. Obviously that makes sense. Keep more equity, earn more money in the future.

Ejaaz:
But if there's something that we're missing, if there's a pattern that you're

Ejaaz:
seeing that we aren't seeing, that we haven't spoken about, leave us a comment,

Ejaaz:
DM us, do whatever you can to get in contact with us.

Ejaaz:
And then if you'll listen to this as well, and if you enjoyed this episode,

Ejaaz:
if you're one of the majority that enjoyed this episode, please make sure you're

Ejaaz:
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Ejaaz:
Do the same on Spotify. Do the same on Apple Music or wherever you're listening to us.

Ejaaz:
We also have a newsletter that goes out twice a week. We put out an essay.

Ejaaz:
That's the first essay of this week is coming out tomorrow. And then we're going

Ejaaz:
to have the five weekly highlights that we always do at the end of the week.

Ejaaz:
We are doing anything and everything to keep you up to date with everything

Ejaaz:
that's going on with AI. And with that, I believe the episode's over. It's done.

Josh:
That's it. Well, thank you all so much for watching. And yeah, let us know.

Josh:
Share with your friends if you enjoyed this episode leave a comment and yeah

Josh:
I think that's everything so thank you so much for watching as always and we

Josh:
will see you in the next one

Ejaaz:
See you guys.