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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;18;28
Aaron
Hey, everyone. Welcome to another week of off chain summer. How you guys doing?
00;00;19;00 - 00;00;21;24
Pri
Another day, another dad. Let's go.
00;00;21;27 - 00;00;26;27
Chris
Another day, another dad. Tree just killed them. The whole thing's dead now.
00;00;26;27 - 00;00;28;24
Derek
It's over on a t shirt.
00;00;28;24 - 00;00;30;24
Chris
I don't know, it didn't last. Coffee mug material.
00;00;30;24 - 00;00;32;03
Derek
Derek, I think you're right.
00;00;32;03 - 00;00;41;24
Aaron
I did laugh at the Wall Street Journal when they covered it. They, like, covered it. And then at the end, they're like, what could possibly go wrong here? Like with a question mark? I was like, a lot, a lot could go wrong.
00;00;42;01 - 00;00;46;20
Chris
Well, the economy's over, guys, so we don't even have to worry about this shit.
00;00;46;22 - 00;00;47;17
Aaron
Because.
00;00;47;19 - 00;00;56;02
Pri
Like aren't all like Coinbase is trading under 20%. Like like things are tanking right now. I don't know.
00;00;56;04 - 00;00;57;00
Aaron
I think the.
00;00;57;02 - 00;01;15;20
Derek
Summer doldrums, we had some tariff stuff yesterday. I mean, they're historically like you just want to say that. But it hit, I think just softer price action in the summers is pretty typical and well, I won't be good. I think people are ringing the bells for the hills and I don't know, I don't feel the same way.
00;01;15;23 - 00;01;22;25
Chris
I'll tell you the 40 grills I swept, I realist and all of them for the losses. And I'm just accepting. West bids left and right.
00;01;22;25 - 00;01;25;09
Derek
So it's so it's you trader.
00;01;25;11 - 00;01;28;23
Chris
I had a conviction for a day and a half.
00;01;28;26 - 00;01;31;04
Derek
Share. Enough. I never understand those guys.
00;01;31;07 - 00;01;34;26
Pri
I really don't, I really don't. The paper hands they're in.
00;01;34;26 - 00;01;36;26
Derek
And they're out always with a loss.
00;01;36;26 - 00;01;43;00
Pri
And they just like, what do you mean? Are they like traders on the other end? Just like tax locks harvesting their gains?
00;01;43;01 - 00;02;00;25
Derek
Yeah I don't I don't know I there's definitely like it's hard because they're all just like a blob on the screen. And you can kind of like dig in there and dig through their wallets and kind of parse it out. But yeah, there's definitely a demographic of people who just like to buy things or mint things, and then immediately less than sell them for a loss.
00;02;00;25 - 00;02;04;22
Derek
And I don't yeah, I don't know. It's not my not my place.
00;02;04;22 - 00;02;08;09
Aaron
I guess occasionally they get it for a gain. Is that what happens?
00;02;08;09 - 00;02;10;27
Derek
I think that I think that maybe the game that they're playing.
00;02;11;04 - 00;02;19;07
Chris
You know Derek, they're kind of like those bicyclists who just can't get out of the way of people and then get all upset and they like run into someone.
00;02;19;10 - 00;02;21;05
Derek
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
00;02;21;06 - 00;02;33;06
Chris
And it just like they put their head down there like I'm going to sleep a bunch of hard blocks and then, I don't know, I don't know where I'm going with this, but God bless them. They're providing liquidity and volatility in the market.
00;02;33;07 - 00;02;44;05
Derek
Yeah for sure it is. It has been fun that speaking of our vlogs, I mean I'm spending a lot of time in that in that discord again just like watching the sales feed. It's been a lot of fun over the last week.
00;02;44;07 - 00;02;45;09
Aaron
How's the energy?
00;02;45;11 - 00;03;03;20
Derek
The energy is good. I mean, I'm seeing seeing, handles in pop up in that discord that I haven't seen in a few years, which is kind of fun. And I think, you know, people are in there and talking about art and talking about the feed. And it's been yeah, it's been it's been fun to kind of poke my head in there and, and see what's going on.
00;03;03;20 - 00;03;05;10
Derek
There's there's definitely some life there.
00;03;05;13 - 00;03;08;07
Chris
Oh you're so back. You're in the art blocks discord.
00;03;08;09 - 00;03;14;16
Derek
I've got I've got it up, I've got it up. Yeah, I've definitely got the, the discord up on my screen. And I check in every so often.
00;03;14;19 - 00;03;18;11
Pri
I literally just threw a gem in there. Did you free? Yeah I did.
00;03;18;13 - 00;03;26;04
Aaron
So are they coming out? What's the plan there or is there going to be more sets? Like what? What are we going to see from our blocks Derek. Or the intimating thing there, there.
00;03;26;09 - 00;03;44;03
Derek
There's a pretty decent sized, pretty decent sized piece of news I think, coming out in the next week. I think by the time this rolls out, it'll be a few days, I think, or maybe it comes out around the same time. But yeah, I think next week they're they're going to kind of, yeah, share some of what they're thinking and where they're going.
00;03;44;03 - 00;03;51;05
Derek
And I think the yeah, it'll, it'll be I think folks will be able to kind of grok what they've been working on over the last couple of months.
00;03;51;08 - 00;03;53;19
Aaron
That's great. I'm excited about that.
00;03;53;21 - 00;03;55;13
Pri
The trade acquisition was cool, too.
00;03;55;15 - 00;03;58;24
Derek
Yeah, I was I'm really excited about that one. What's your guys's take?
00;03;58;26 - 00;04;20;19
Aaron
I like that I mean, I think the physical stuff is what I think over the long run people are going to want. Right? Like the customization we see on the, you know, on the internet, on on your phones, on your feeds. I just think that's going to bleed into the real world. And I always like the idea around trade and physical goods that are high end, but also like customize just for you.
00;04;20;20 - 00;04;37;00
Aaron
Like I think that that feels directionally right on like the consumer side, I'm actually surprised we haven't seen more and more of that. I thought that would pick up a bit, but maybe like as the U.S. gets its mojo back when it comes to making stuff like that will be one of the trends. That's part of it. It just feels right to me.
00;04;37;02 - 00;05;08;12
Pri
It is difficult to source one of one thing, so like at, you know, to do a network set where everything is like different from the other pieces. I mean, there's just a premium to that. So I think part of the reason that hasn't been done it skills, because it's like not that easy to do. And so I think it's cool that our box is going to lean into this because I, I do think like just thinking as someone who loves furniture and design, like, I love these iconic pieces, I'll see them sometimes you see them across like other interior design websites or like on Instagram and other like other posts.
00;05;08;12 - 00;05;26;04
Pri
But having something that feels like slightly unique to you and slightly different, but like a part of it means the same thing is like a network said. But being, you know, having the same acidic taste as someone in the physical realm. But it's not exactly the same thing, and it feels like rendered redundant, I think is actually it feels directionally right.
00;05;26;04 - 00;05;34;24
Pri
And I think trim has done a really good job in doing that at a very, very high quality, which again, is like not that easy to do. So it's kind of pumped.
00;05;34;29 - 00;05;49;19
Aaron
Yeah, it's going to be good. I mean, I'm excited to kind of see, you know, what new stuff people are going to play around with with any generative art. Good physical, nonphysical, digital. Just I feel like we're going to start to see that come back, which I'm excited about completely.
00;05;49;21 - 00;05;53;21
Pri
I thought generative art was dead, but very much living.
00;05;53;23 - 00;05;57;26
Aaron
It's always nothing changes. Everything just continues.
00;05;57;28 - 00;06;05;11
Pri
Everything persists. But we need stuff to talk about in the meantime. So we just like, say, things are dead. I think this week, like, photography is dying.
00;06;05;11 - 00;06;16;09
Aaron
Yeah, but what? Isn't that right? Like there's this whole generation. Like what? Is there anything in there that you guys think are is just not dead that is going to come back or is kind of overlooked and shouldn't be?
00;06;16;13 - 00;06;22;21
Derek
That's a good question. So so is there anything that actually is that, is that the is that the question? Aaron.
00;06;22;23 - 00;06;42;27
Aaron
Yeah. Or like is there anything that's out there look like, you know, I feel like this happens every time like an ecosystem comes back. There's something that was released. It like floated around. It has still like a lot of energy around it that kind of slowly built like in the shadows. And then it just kind of breaks out in some capacity, either becomes more prominent.
00;06;42;27 - 00;07;08;05
Aaron
Right? Like, or, you know, people get excited about it, you know, much, much more so than than they did before. Like just thinking the issue or like Chainlink was like a good example there, right? Like they were an interesting project. You know, they had a couple people that liked it, but they really kind of grew and grew almost in the shadows from 20 1617, 18, 19 and just continue to kind of solidify their position.
00;07;08;07 - 00;07;13;19
Aaron
I feel like the same thing's going to happen on the NFT side and digital art side with with one or more creators.
00;07;13;21 - 00;07;35;27
Pri
One thing that never I feel like I mean, it took off, but in a very niche way is like protocol art. I feel like there was one point I feel like in the middle of the barrel was like trying to make a list of all the protocol artists and see their work, and really leveraging the chain when it comes to the work, and in order to, like, change it or manipulate it.
00;07;35;28 - 00;07;53;23
Pri
I think that that category is super interesting, but I don't know if people are fully there yet or if it's just too like esoteric and deep and like, people just want to see a pretty picture. But I do think that maybe it never catches on, but I do think it's an interesting category that hasn't had a mainstream appeal in outer space yet.
00;07;53;24 - 00;07;55;11
Pri
Maybe it catches on.
00;07;55;13 - 00;08;04;18
Derek
I like that one. I'll say, yeah, I think, I think so much of it's funny. I don't even know if I fully believe this, but when Aaron was like, what is? Actually the first thing that came to my mind was music.
00;08;04;18 - 00;08;06;07
Aaron
NFT oh no.
00;08;06;09 - 00;08;39;12
Derek
Bu but I actually don't believe that. I, I think like all of this stuff. Protocol art, music NFT is the I mean, code based art, gaming and crypto. I think that there is a ember of insight and all of these things that I think is really powerful, and it usually comes down around like what can be owned in these systems and how participation or how participation can be incentivized or rewarded in a way that feels measured and, and meets the specific segment of the user, where it's at, where they're at.
00;08;39;12 - 00;09;12;19
Derek
A versus kind of like a sledgehammer approach to just like airdrops and free gifts and etc., etc.. Yeah, I think, I think for me it's it's like, yeah, these things that seemingly don't have a heartbeat right now, there's always going to be some some entrepreneur or some founder that's hanging around the hoop and is studying and seeing these ingredients and, and understands a really unique market insight that others don't and can figure out a way to package the right ingredients in a way that makes the attempt even stronger than the one than than the predecessors.
00;09;12;19 - 00;09;32;20
Derek
And I think that's something that I am always trying to look out for. It's like these I think the categories of just like, is is this thing even is this Mike even on are there any is there anyone over here. There's usually usually enough there's enough that worked in the past to know that there's something big in there, even if the previous iterations of the thing weren't quite right.
00;09;32;21 - 00;09;36;04
Chris
I'm bless you, Derek, for always seeing the good in the world.
00;09;36;07 - 00;09;40;12
Derek
Thank you man, someone's got to do it with you three.
00;09;40;14 - 00;09;43;13
Chris
Well, we're nothing but like rays of sunshine. Knock it off, man.
00;09;43;14 - 00;09;49;20
Derek
I think it's I think it's New York. I think in New York. Really? Yeah. I get I wake up every day. I get to see the bright, the sun over the ocean.
00;09;49;20 - 00;09;56;15
Aaron
And we're going to cut this off. Derek, I don't want to hear LA. I got a great sports team. I got great sports teams.
00;09;56;15 - 00;10;01;03
Derek
I got great weather, I got great food. Tell me a little bit about New York guys.
00;10;01;05 - 00;10;25;19
Aaron
You're going to boot. You're like, your mayor gets some like rational politicians verify. That's good. I mean, I you know, I think we're just I think we give sober reasons. But I do think it's a sober read, that, you know, something's going to kick back up. I do. I've always like the protocol art stuff. I just feel like that's something that everybody can kind of get around, you know, if it looks good.
00;10;25;22 - 00;10;37;16
Aaron
And it is technically interesting that, like, OGs like it or people that are more technical. I think that the craftsmanship in a lot of those projects. So I'm, I don't know, I'm kind of excited about that.
00;10;37;16 - 00;10;46;19
Pri
That stuff is interesting that the E Foundation has been like kind of tweeting and buying more the protocol driven art too. So it's like, oh, it's it's interesting maybe makes sense for them to do that.
00;10;46;19 - 00;10;50;26
Aaron
But yeah, completely. What do you think Chris? What do you think is going to come back.
00;10;51;01 - 00;11;12;04
Chris
You know, it was Van. You know I'm I'm not out there making guesses right now. I don't have a great sense of the world. I, I'm not very hopeful for vape turn. I'm not very hopeful for game. I know I'm bearish on vape to earn. Where is Barry Chang? Where is Mega E? Where is, what was the other one?
00;11;12;04 - 00;11;13;25
Pri
Monad I think.
00;11;13;27 - 00;11;20;02
Aaron
Yeah, monad I read yesterday. I think it's going into audit. So I think it's actually getting closer to launch.
00;11;20;05 - 00;11;24;14
Chris
Well all right maybe vapor. And as a prayer, it's unbearable, isn't it?
00;11;24;14 - 00;11;28;11
Derek
Chris is really proven. The rumors are true that he works for big cigaret.
00;11;28;13 - 00;11;29;17
Aaron
That's why I.
00;11;29;19 - 00;11;38;08
Chris
I'm alt I'm anon. I'm, I'm really glad R.J. Reynolds guy has that the story. Yeah.
00;11;38;11 - 00;11;39;08
Derek
There you go.
00;11;39;10 - 00;11;59;10
Chris
I don't know, man. I mean, look, it's nice to see the energy back. You know, it's nice to feel coming out of the woodwork. The the hyperbolic nature. I don't know about some of that stuff. Like how people can and, not even in good faith, but just shamelessly post like, he's so inducing tweets and just sleep at night.
00;11;59;10 - 00;12;21;23
Chris
I maybe I care too much about my reputation. Maybe I care too much about living in the world as it is. But, it is funny to see, like a lot of, like the the playbook just right back out there and everyone just, you know, acting like nothing ever happened and, you know, pretended like there is this stuff is never going to go down in value again, like dirty disciples.
00;12;21;23 - 00;12;24;23
Chris
And now I'm like, be, be a grown up.
00;12;24;25 - 00;12;26;18
Aaron
Hey, Derek, what do you think about, wrecked?
00;12;26;18 - 00;12;54;21
Derek
I like it a lot. I I'm not an investor. I don't have any economics. I'm. I don't hold the token. I just I just say that this is a pretty unbiased opinion. I think those guys have. I think they're sharp. I've met them. I've chatted with them before. I think they're very thoughtful and and understand both the kind of the social side of product building in the space, but then also the hard business logic and finance side, which I don't think comes a doesn't always come across.
00;12;54;21 - 00;13;30;14
Derek
But they're, you know, they're they're former professionals, in that world state, they, they have a, you know, a trading background, a finance background. I think the core insight there is one that we've talked about here before, which is if you can, you know, create a consumer product or a fashion product or, physical piece of art and, build that resonance through like a, an actual object that people can own it, it can bolster a lot of the work that you're doing on the digital side around network design and proving ownership on these blockchains, rewarding and incentivizing participation in these systems.
00;13;30;14 - 00;13;55;26
Derek
And I think the insight there is that there's a flywheel in place where, you know, you can subsidize some of like the, the maybe the, the not so great margins of operating in meatspace. Right. Like, you know, revenue and and pricing that you get and, you know, wholesaling, consumer products to a retailer. I mean, these are not great margins like, you know, digital assets notoriously have like 99.9% gross margins.
00;13;55;29 - 00;14;19;13
Derek
You know, you're lucky if you can eke out 5 to 10% from, you know, selling, a shirt in a retailer or a stuffed animal or whatever it may be. And, but it, you know, if you can build that emotional resonance and physical spaces and the value then goes back to the digital asset, you know, that's a that's a really clever and interesting way to bootstrap a network to bootstrap.
00;14;19;16 - 00;14;42;08
Derek
You know, a market cap to bootstrap economics, that, that doesn't use the physical for, you know, generating increasingly more revenue or uses the physical for creating these touchpoints for people to kind of connect with your brand and really interesting ways. And I think drinks and water and branded water. I think that model was proved with the liquid death product.
00;14;42;08 - 00;15;00;10
Derek
And these guys are doing it for a new segment that hasn't as capital heavy and, and younger and interested in, you know, owning co owning the next great brand. And so I think you know I look at what they did and and it's like yeah they they nailed it. They got the playbook right. They got the execution right.
00;15;00;10 - 00;15;16;11
Derek
They got the idea right. They got the the saddling between digital and physical. Right. And so I think this is not a prediction on, you know, where that thing goes. But I would say as an investor looking at the execution, I've been pretty impressed with with them and what they've been able to accomplish.
00;15;16;13 - 00;15;33;15
Aaron
Yeah, I think there's something around there too. Derek, I don't know if that's the project for it, but I wonder if some of the attempts at like tying physical goods to a digital asset, they just for a little bit too niche and something like a drink or something that anybody can purchase is a much better way to do it.
00;15;33;18 - 00;15;33;27
Derek
Yeah.
00;15;33;29 - 00;15;56;14
Chris
It hits one of the biggest problems the crypto space has, which is attacking these minuscule markets in the hopes that people will come. You know, one of the reasons I've I've stayed out of consumer crypto and I wrote a tweet about this. I did the rounds like a year ago or two years ago. I can't remember when, but like there is no team to work with.
00;15;56;16 - 00;16;16;20
Chris
You need to work with like fairly large data sets feel to drive products. I couldn't really get a sense of, you know, if something had legs or not until I had, you know, like, I could start segmenting people into thousands or tens of thousands of use cases and then actioning against that. We've done a lot of early stage investing.
00;16;16;20 - 00;16;39;12
Chris
We've seen a lot of reports that come in from, you know, projects in the Dow portfolios and the metrics they're reporting on, you know, oh, we had a huge launch. We got 100 people to sign up. And, you know, 100 people are going to move the needle. You're not gonna be able to do anything with it. And so it's a Derek's point about like execution, especially in a field like, consumer packaged goods.
00;16;39;14 - 00;17;04;28
Chris
Right? You're eliminating one of the big variables. Now you're playing in tougher waters because there's an incumbent pressure. But I always prefer build a product, bring it to market, and compete in a place where I know there's demand for it versus, you know, trying to a a demand for something comes to place because, you know, there's things you can control and things you can't control, and no one can ever control future demand.
00;17;05;00 - 00;17;23;21
Aaron
That's a great point, Chris. And and, you know, maybe that, you know, with some of the digital fashion or just some of the other endeavors, they're just there. Who knows that there's demand there for the experiments to play around with that. I think that demand is going to come. But you know, that people want like an energy drink or, you know, bottle, bottle of water, right.
00;17;23;21 - 00;17;30;14
Aaron
Or, or some of these other everyday items, maybe that's a good place, or maybe that's where we will see more experimentation.
00;17;30;16 - 00;17;33;26
Chris
Because it isn't. I'm sorry I keep cutting you off today.
00;17;33;29 - 00;17;35;09
Pri
No, no, go for it.
00;17;35;11 - 00;18;06;17
Chris
It's a catch 22 thing because you need people to build for the future. Otherwise you don't get a future. At the same time, if you're going to financialized and introduce speculative, tokens around your project, it kind of helps to have demand today. Otherwise, you're only going to get so much rope and then you get caught out. And we've seen that probably for like, you know, 95% of of tokens that actually exist today or for products that never came to be or products that came to be for a market that never was.
00;18;06;17 - 00;18;34;29
Chris
And so it's tough, right? They building product, creating something out of nothing. It's always a difficult proposition. I think though, if you know your goal is to sustain a token flywheel, it certainly helps when you can have, immediate demand side engaged in that loop. Otherwise you're only going to get so much time before the the music starts and someone pulls a chair.
00;18;35;00 - 00;18;51;25
Aaron
It's only wise words, Chris. Wise words. Well, it seems like, you know, just to transition a little bit that the government wants to put the chair under crypto. There's been like a ton of news related to that over the past week, and I'm sure people have kind of caught. But I know we've talked about the bull post.
00;18;51;27 - 00;18;53;02
Pri
I mean.
00;18;53;04 - 00;19;16;01
Aaron
Yeah, that was not on my bingo card for for this year. But there was two things that kind of came out. One was, like a speech from the current SEC. Commissioner was there that's running it or chair. And then there's also a big beefy report from the white House just talking about what should be done, around the digital asset industry.
00;19;16;01 - 00;19;35;11
Aaron
And it just seems like the efforts in that vein are just accelerating. So, you know, we have one bill passed. Looks like a second bill is going to come through. You've got the SEC people posting like, you know, two three and you know, a really significant piece of work kind of coming out of the white House, which I think it's not binding.
00;19;35;11 - 00;19;54;16
Aaron
But I do think those things are influential. As an example, Obama did that for like AI policy. And I do think that that helped some of the innovations that we're seeing now, five plus years later after that, for even more than that decade or so later, I think that's pretty interesting that that hit anybody else's radar. What do you think, Eric?
00;19;54;19 - 00;20;25;17
Derek
Yeah, I totally agree with everything. With everything that you said. It's funny, the the day before, Paul Atkins, the SEC chair, did that speech and like kind of unveiled, Project Crypto, which is yeah, it was basically just it's non-binding. It was just a speech about like, here's all the things that we're going to do from a policy perspective to regulate crypto in a way that, you know, that that stewards the next generation of capital markets and brings them to blockchain based environments at the white House had their crypto report that was published like 24 hours before that.
00;20;25;17 - 00;20;49;21
Derek
And that thing's a beast. It's like 150 pages. And so, yeah, I was I was skimming through it the night before that speech, and I got to the section around essentially around how, basically the, the recommendation there by the, the white House crypto team that that put together a report that basically was urging and recommending the SEC to use its existing rulemaking authority to do a bunch of stuff.
00;20;49;21 - 00;21;14;06
Derek
And one of those things was essentially to to class. When a token is or isn't a security, using this like a safe harbor approach, or to start exempting network tokens that you could earn in a deeper network or an AI network, exempting those reward frameworks or distributions or NFT offerings, exempting them completely from securities laws. And I was going through this and I was like, oh my God, why is nobody talking about this?
00;21;14;06 - 00;21;37;17
Derek
This is huge news. Like, this is basically the SEC was part of that team that put together that that white House crypto report in concert with the white House. The recommendation that this team was putting in place was functionally saying that the SEC should just use their formal rule process to do these things that functionally could solve a lot of like the the hairy questions that have been coming up in crypto markets for.
00;21;37;19 - 00;22;01;16
Derek
Yeah, for 15 years. It reminded me of four years ago when Hester Peirce, like, put out this GitHub where she wrote about, like, this idea of what a proposed token safe harbor could be, which was was essentially like, hey, listen, if you want to launch a crypto token and sell a crypto token and have it, you know, fully avail itself to being a network token, we're going to like one one way we could do that.
00;22;01;18 - 00;22;19;14
Derek
And this is why she was at the SEC. Is, create like, the safe harbor for a team or a network or an entrepreneur to launch a token and and basically follow like these disclosure plans for three years. It's like, here are the tokenomics here is the team working on it. Here's our code that you can audit.
00;22;19;15 - 00;22;42;23
Derek
Here's the distribution schedule. And at the end of the three year term, if you've reached a threshold of like sufficient decentralization, it's basically you could, you know, it's like an Excel report that like a, like a outside counsel could look at then you're sufficiently decentralized. This thing was never a security. You were able to kind of like avail yourself to the laws of this non-security asset and you're good to go.
00;22;42;24 - 00;23;12;13
Derek
Or if it's not like a functional utility network or a sufficiently decentralized network, at that point, you have to register three years out. And I mean, this is, you know, Hester Pierce is is still they're part of the team thinking about, you know, how to, to operationalize some of these, these these, like, very thorny issues. And so I was reading this thing that the day before that speech and I was like, this is probably the most bullish and most interesting thing I've read come out of the SEC ever, and nobody is talking about it.
00;23;12;13 - 00;23;37;29
Derek
So I put like this little tweet out. And then I did it again the next morning, kind of unpacking it a little bit more. And then and we saw the, we saw the, the big Atkins project crypto commission. Right. Initiative, speech happened a few hours later. And kind of the rest is history. I will say just just broadly speaking, the, the the reason why I, I find this to be so bullish is, is, there's obviously all of, like, this legislative work that's being done to operationalize some of these questions that we've had.
00;23;37;29 - 00;24;10;23
Derek
And the SEC rulemaking process functionally could take, could answer a lot of these questions through a process that is much more expedited, much quicker, and much more targeted, and kind of falls within their their scope of classing securities already. And so, yeah, there is this federal federalism issue of like, which who should have more power. But I think one of the reasons I was so excited about it is like it kind of this thing pulls up a lot of the timelines that I think have kind of plagued the debate that the debates that normally happen when you run through Congress.
00;24;10;25 - 00;24;30;19
Aaron
Yeah, completely. I do think it's better for it to run through Congress. And I, I think that part of the challenge is the agencies have too much power. It feels like that power has been pulled back. So I do think there's some knotty questions there. But, you know, just to give like, like high level, some other things that were addressed in that white House, digital asset report.
00;24;30;21 - 00;24;53;04
Aaron
Made clear that the CFTC has clear authority on spot trading, homeland security, digital assets. You know, it made clear that and it's aiming and hoping that there's codification of self-custody principles that US person should be able to lawfully hold and transfer their own assets without an intermediary. I think that's pretty big, really on the tech side, which is always tricky.
00;24;53;04 - 00;25;19;29
Aaron
And, you know, these boring tax rules really limit the ability of the more established enterprises to get involved. They they want to make clear that digital assets should be treated as a new asset class, hopefully going to be guidance on staking or dropping airdrops, wrapping, which again, really basic stuff. But if you have a lot of digital assets you want to you want to kind of engage in this at scale, this stuff kind of matters, you know, even like principle based cybersecurity standards, which is pretty great.
00;25;20;01 - 00;25;38;29
Aaron
And even incentives to re domicile, you know, crypto founders back into the US. I mean, it was pretty sad that so many founders had to leave the US. I think there was a developer report that I, you know, picked a couple days ago, and it was saying that there's more developer activity in Asia related to crypto than the US, which is frankly, like a bit embarrassing.
00;25;38;29 - 00;26;04;20
Aaron
So I think that that was all pretty, pretty interesting. And then on the SEC side, just building on that, Derek said. Disagree. Maintaining the ability to work with issuers. You know, really thinking about what trading on chain securities could look like, making sure that there's like clean exemptions and disclosures, which is pretty great, really opening up the pathway so that, you know, all assets can kind of go on chain.
00;26;04;22 - 00;26;16;07
Aaron
So I think, like as we move into, at the end of off chain summer, maybe we, actually have Unchained, Unchained, Unchained fall, Unchained winter.
00;26;16;09 - 00;26;28;07
Pri
Spring. I mean, yeah, I wonder how long it takes that to, like, actually trickle in and people start tokenizing, but I mean, at what point do I was actually gonna ask, like, what point do we actually see ICOs again?
00;26;28;09 - 00;26;58;00
Aaron
I mean, I think that these this this is the whole point of these disclosure regimes, right? They kind of like lurking behind them. Is this stuff related to, you know, using tokens for capital formation, which I think is huge. So I just think there's a lot that's kind of like percolating around that. And then there's like ancillary bills that are kicking around to either amend what it means to be accredited, to expand the number of parties that can participate in a pooled investment vehicle, like a fund or, you know, something like, can I Sue gray?
00;26;58;02 - 00;27;11;14
Aaron
I think all those are like additional tokens to the to the on chain. On June 2026. And now we have to think of something. The brand we must brand. What, what this all will be.
00;27;11;14 - 00;27;16;20
Pri
Yeah, I'm thinking something with, I don't know, whatever. I'll. I'll think about it. I'll think about the branding here.
00;27;16;24 - 00;27;19;06
Chris
You guys done being policy talks?
00;27;19;08 - 00;27;20;22
Aaron
Yep.
00;27;20;24 - 00;27;42;20
Derek
Yeah, I think I think like the net I was a little worried about when Aaron and I get going on this side of kind of, I don't know if this is interesting to others, but but I think the net of the, the stuff that Aaron is talking about and the stuff that came out this week is, is basically like, you know, it's a full 180 in terms of how to approach this technology with financial markets.
00;27;42;20 - 00;28;05;29
Derek
And when I see that, I'm just like, it's game on. Like we can actually design things from first principles. We can actually do our jobs in terms of protecting investors from the right things instead of the wrong things. We can start allowing opportunities to flourish and fall towards people that historically have been blocked from being able to receive those opportunities.
00;28;06;01 - 00;28;11;08
Derek
And so, yeah, when I see that, I'm just like, we're getting it right, thank God. Like we're finally getting it right.
00;28;11;10 - 00;28;31;23
Aaron
Chris, we got to make way for RWA, man. He needs he needs to have a safe place to operate. But even beyond that, I mean, what entrepreneur wants to spend their time? I go to the the glass chilling of starting and building a company when it's not clear what you can and can't do. I just think that that should be fixed.
00;28;31;23 - 00;28;33;25
Aaron
So I am excited about that.
00;28;33;27 - 00;28;57;03
Pri
I'm excited to. One thing that I will say this is more of like a heuristic thing, but I do feel like limitations on capital and the amount of capital raised actually breeds creative innovation. Like, I mean, the most recent mainstream example is like Deep Sea, for example, like you kind of don't get that unless you have constraints. And that's like a popular thing people say, but I do.
00;28;57;06 - 00;29;26;25
Pri
I am curious, like if token is tokenization at scale, with more investor pools to tap into, becomes available to people, whether or not what kind of innovation we see. Because I think part of the issue with like the initial ICO bubble is like it's not like, of course there was some innovation that came out of that, but I wonder if there was like less capital raise that you would have actually probably seen more grit and like more people trying to fight for like the next phase of their business rather than sitting on like $100 million.
00;29;26;28 - 00;29;50;04
Aaron
I think that's right. I mean, I still like these models that people were playing around with where they really, like, pledged, like, stated like a rap stake eath. And, you know, kind of the yield goes and gets pulled for a project and then it can be pulled out. I do think something like that, maybe directionally where things are going, where, you know, the capital's there, but you have more ability to kind of pull it.
00;29;50;04 - 00;30;11;17
Aaron
If you don't like the direction of the business or the project. I think there's a lot of innovation that can happen there. You know, at the same time that I do think, like the cost to really tackle big problems is going up versus going to pay $1 billion for a top flight developer over a four year period, like, I think the cost of operating some businesses may actually go up over time.
00;30;11;19 - 00;30;17;11
Aaron
So maybe kind of necessary for that. And the upside is still there. Right. Like look at what happened with segment yesterday. It's pretty.
00;30;17;11 - 00;30;37;05
Pri
Wild. I still even today on the capital constrained thing. Like there's no motivation for these private companies to even go public outside you know, the LPs desire for liquidity. But even for venture partners, like as long as their deals keep getting marked up in private settings, it's like still, you know, for good for them and their balance sheet.
00;30;37;05 - 00;30;56;17
Pri
So it's like the only people that want liquidity are those that are the investors. But, yeah, I guess I'm just trying to like, grapple with the fact that more people are choosing to go private. It's actually kind of working out in some ways. But then you add tokenization as an element, like, do we start seeing a ton of just tokens that enter?
00;30;56;17 - 00;31;05;10
Pri
And these companies like raising a shit ton of money, and I don't know, I feel like it could get pretty hairy pretty quickly.
00;31;05;12 - 00;31;21;19
Aaron
I think it can, but I think that I think once the rules are clear, these disclosures are in place. People know what they can and can't do. I think they'll take it a little bit slower. I think you'll see like a web two builders, which are pretty good at what they're doing, come in and begin to continue to shave off edges related to things.
00;31;21;19 - 00;31;47;00
Aaron
And I do think tokens are useful for bootstrapping a network. And if distribution matters more and more as like software gets increasingly commoditized, release party software. I just think that tokens are going to be part of like the the modern tech stack for any founder doesn't necessarily need to be a crypto crypto vendor. I just think it's going to fade in the background and, you know, just become a technique or an approach to building a network or a project that anybody's going to choose.
00;31;47;00 - 00;31;48;06
Chris
Token thirst traps.
00;31;48;06 - 00;32;23;08
Derek
Token thirst traps. Yeah. I do think that, like, I kind of I kind of biased, to what Aaron saying here, which is just like the ability to tokenize doesn't actually mean value should flow to these things. The market should really do, just like do a will do and can do a better job of pricing these things. And instead of preventing, you know, access to these things or opacity around these things, which has a byproduct of of making these things, you know, priced in ways that are by small groups of people and can be kind of like it can fluctuate based on, you know, factors that have nothing to do with fundamentals in private markets.
00;32;23;08 - 00;32;48;05
Derek
What what will probably not naturally happen is just think these things will find their equilibrium price faster. You know, more swaths of people will have access to them. And it doesn't necessarily mean like number goes up, but it does mean, you know, more fair pricing or widely wide distribution, more accessibility, which I think on that has has been kind of some of the bigger issues around these markets historically.
00;32;48;05 - 00;33;07;19
Derek
So yeah, I it I guess like if I had to summarize my thinking on this, it's like it I think, you know, the let's call it like the last 50 to 70 years have been about kind of maybe over protecting investors. And it's possible that from a regulatory perspective. And I think that that there's always that's always important.
00;33;07;19 - 00;33;38;18
Derek
There should be some structure in place. I think that the the reality though, is like it may make more sense to take a screwdriver instead of a sledgehammer to that protection and let markets, you know, somewhat accent some of the some of the the protection. Naturally, that will happen just by virtue of these things being priced, you know, more accurately 24 seven and and in the meantime in that switch, just allowing more people to participate, I think is and create wealth for themselves is has historically been something missing from from private markets.
00;33;38;18 - 00;33;43;01
Chris
Yes. Private markets has done such a terrible job of allowing people to create great wealth themselves.
00;33;43;01 - 00;33;58;08
Derek
Yeah. I mean, this is a longer debate. I'm not I'm not going to sit here and say like the the structure is terrible. I are totally off. But I do think that there are some holes that that could be shored up. I but I, I agree with the sentiment, Chris. It's not a it's not 0 to 1.
00;33;58;11 - 00;34;23;22
Aaron
No, I mean I think everything's great. But you got to continue to innovate or else you fall behind. Right. So like to me like all of this is just making sure that that particularly like from the States getting it right, modernizing the financial system so that you can begin to not just tackle what we have now, but continue to improve it and maintain in that pole position for the next 2030, 50, 100 years is super important to me.
00;34;23;24 - 00;34;39;14
Aaron
And I just think that I just think, yeah, like you can't just sit on your laurels and just say it's all done. And I think a lot of folks want to do that in a lot of different quarters. And I think when you get into that posture, you just turn into the man, you know, where you're lucky if you get an air conditioner.
00;34;39;15 - 00;34;41;01
Aaron
Savage.
00;34;41;03 - 00;34;57;29
Pri
Yeah. But fair. I'm just like, thinking about, like, these, like huge private companies, like stripe. Like what happens if, like, stripe doesn't actually end up going public, and equities. Stripe just drops a token, airdrops it to every merchant that like has used stripe. Their basic level is so sick.
00;34;58;01 - 00;34;59;16
Aaron
I mean that be wild in your.
00;34;59;16 - 00;35;11;24
Derek
In your hypo pre would your with the token be something where revenue like associated with revenues in some capacity like you know token holders. You're saying. No.
00;35;11;27 - 00;35;30;12
Aaron
Yeah I'd say I think striped as both. This is the model I think works stripe issues into the merchant token that trades. It's like a second class of asset. The Stripe Inc goes public, has a bunch of that asset. And it's basically like a treasury company too. But you get distribution everywhere. Yeah.
00;35;30;12 - 00;35;56;02
Derek
We're we're we're kind of seeing a like a backdoor approach to that right now with Coinbase and Base. There's no base token yet. But like imagine this is these are discussions that they're having internally around like what the future of Coinbase looks like and where value accrues and can based token capture that as like the token out market versus the equity, which, you know, as you know, revenue rights associated with it, you know, as a security.
00;35;56;05 - 00;36;09;03
Derek
So yeah, I think I think we're going to see some hybrid models for sure. We'll see. We'll see I mean, we'll see I think what the next couple of years bring. But but I think we're probably going to see a greater appetite for structures like the one you're describing here.
00;36;09;06 - 00;36;18;13
Pri
Do you think the network token and like the equity like the stock equity would trade together in parallel? And do you think there would be ever like an occasion where they split?
00;36;18;16 - 00;36;37;00
Aaron
I think I wouldn't view it as like two classes of an asset. Right. So I don't think they'd have the same price because they don't have the same rights. But I think it I think it's the right setup in many ways. Like if you have like a treasury company coming from a decentralized protocol, I think regulators kind of have somebody to turn to.
00;36;37;02 - 00;36;58;02
Aaron
It gets rid of this kind of like this game where, team can't support the project. And at the same time, you have something that can participate on global 24 decentralized markets. And, and I think you kind of satisfy both channels of, finance distribution doesn't mean that over time. That's the AMC. But I do think in the near term that seems like pretty.
00;36;58;02 - 00;37;08;03
Aaron
So I don't know, I think you need a lot of work that needs to be done to like establish tokenized securities and, and build up that distribution channel. That's going to take at least five plus years.
00;37;08;05 - 00;37;26;25
Pri
Yeah, I hear that. I still think like, even though there is no rights associated with it, that like some of the buyers who are not active network participants are going to treat it as like a derivative of the, you know, the actual corporation. We don't need to get in the weeds here. But I'm just like thinking about like if there was like a stripe merchant token and like the stripe equity token.
00;37;26;27 - 00;37;40;28
Pri
If Stripe Inc reports insane, you know, growth one quarter. I wonder if like that network merchant token would also kind of feel that to feel the growth from that I don't know. Anyways, just something to think about.
00;37;41;03 - 00;37;43;14
Chris
And now for something completely different.
00;37;43;17 - 00;37;44;26
Aaron
What are we talking about Chris.
00;37;44;29 - 00;37;48;09
Pri
Yeah. Do we want to talk convict artist conviction?
00;37;48;09 - 00;38;07;03
Chris
I think we do. I think we need to get out of the dorky policy regulation area. And you're killing capital market formation. I'm sorry. I'm not. I'm not feeling this today, guys. And I'm glad you guys had the conversation. You're very well informed participants on it. I learned a lot, but hard to say it there today. So.
00;38;07;05 - 00;38;24;16
Derek
Well, I think it started because we were in, Flamingo. I think all a bunch of us were just kind of like riffing on stuff, and, and we, I think we, we shared a couple of artists that we kind of had spent a little bit more time in the bear market, kind of going through their creative practice and their catalog of work on chain.
00;38;24;16 - 00;38;50;22
Derek
And, you know, some names popped up as like, I, you know, renewed conviction. I think we were calling it. Yeah. And yeah, one of the I mean, one of I can share one of the artists from my perspective that I had collected from, you know, three years ago, four years ago, but then, you know, spent a little bit more time with them, over the last year and, and got some of that more renewed, renewed conviction and not even spent time with them, just spend time with their work in their catalog and how they were putting it together.
00;38;50;22 - 00;39;08;01
Derek
And that was Eric did really more EDG. And Chris is I know I'm a huge, huge fan as well. Actually, when I was doing some research on on Eric, I was just kind of going through social stuff around some of his previous work, and I kept seeing Chris name pop up in these, in the, in the threads, which was kind of fun to see.
00;39;08;01 - 00;39;28;14
Derek
I can just share a little bit about Eric. And, you know, I don't think he has any idea that we're doing this, but he's a code based artist and is kind of like, you know, non art. He's a theoretical physicist. He is also an academic. He teaches, I think math and physics. And he is also, you know, an artist that works basically with, with browser native code as the medium.
00;39;28;14 - 00;39;48;16
Derek
And I think, you know, there's a number of works that he's launched both on our blocks and off our blocks that are really interesting. And I think his creative practice is mostly about the sense I get whenever I go through. His work is like, I'm a, I'm a I'm actually a scientist. And like, I'm, you know, I'm viewing his practice through the lens that a scientist would through, you know, through through glass.
00;39;48;19 - 00;40;15;24
Derek
And, you know, he explores things like the origin of life and aliens and our identity within these things and world building. And yeah, I just I find his practice so interesting and compelling, and it's so different than other ways artists are making work in our space and very authentic to him that I just really appreciate it. Yeah. So I've been, you know, reshoring up my collection and collecting more things and kind of like trying to pin down some of his more obscure collections.
00;40;15;24 - 00;40;23;27
Derek
But yeah, that's that's one artist that came to my mind. But but, Chris, I know you've been a long time collector of Eric's, so maybe you can share a little bit about why you like him.
00;40;23;27 - 00;40;44;18
Chris
Definitely. First of all, I was thrilled to see you and your, crate digging. Find your way to Eric. I was thrilled to find out that you're out purchasing his work. I am a huge fan. I have a lot of pieces from him, just in the interest of disclosure. So everyone in the call knows, Flamingo has collected a lot of his work.
00;40;44;20 - 00;41;21;09
Chris
I'm not the only fan of the Dao, but we do have huge bags as well. And so, you know, we're talking about someone who I think there's an enormous appreciation and respect for, but also someone who. Yes, we have heavy, edg bags. There's a lot going on in his work. There's a lot I like about it. I think one of the most interesting things to me is he really like, successfully straddles that line between like, object and system in a way that I haven't seen a lot of generative artists do, and that that to me adds a degree of depth to it, like, a work like Atlas, for instance.
00;41;21;12 - 00;41;44;22
Chris
That was a draw. If you did with growlers, it's released on their blogs platform, and when you look at it at a very, very high level, it's basically a generative layout of a bunch of circles, globe spheres on a grid. And but as you dig in deeper and deeper, you start to see each one of those lobes is running its own generative system inside of it.
00;41;44;22 - 00;42;06;22
Chris
And you can zoom in and zoom in and zoom in. And so there's a degree of like depth to his work in which he's stacking systems on systems and kind of rolling them up into this emergent phenomenon. Right. Like which is very much, you know, in line with his practice as a physicist of like, how things interact with each other and compound upon them.
00;42;06;22 - 00;42;27;04
Chris
And so that that's one thing I really do find appealing about his work is that, you know, you can return to it and discover something about it. You may have missed, for his past, or there's always, like deeper layers into it, and it does feel like you're able to travel through the work versus, you know, some more like algorithmic line based, art that's out there.
00;42;27;04 - 00;42;28;26
Chris
He's got he's got more going on.
00;42;28;26 - 00;42;40;10
Pri
I feel like we geeked out about him a lot. I feel like back in the day, I remember also having a buzz. I think outside of just the concept, I think as vertically the work is fantastic. I'm a huge fan.
00;42;40;13 - 00;43;22;27
Chris
Like I think, yeah, Nasdaq is the one. I think we really went a little head over heels for. And Amazonas and National is great. Like I look at Amazon and there is something about it that is very heroic. And his use of light and color, there's a little there's there's some confrontation in there. It's a it's a little disturbing, in terms of the things that are clashing, you know, it's not something you usually just take a glance at and, you know, walk away from that, like I do get the sense that, you know, he's taking the Hudson River school, their exploration of, you know, letting light, diffusing across landscapes.
00;43;22;27 - 00;43;39;05
Chris
But he's moving that into a digitally native environment. And, you know, to me, this is like, an investigation of light, color and, you know, systems coming into play in, like, network space that I really just, like, can't get enough of.
00;43;39;07 - 00;43;41;29
Pri
Yeah. Hits you in the right spots. I'm a fan.
00;43;42;01 - 00;44;04;19
Chris
Let's, let's construct ourselves the the Eric de Julie starter pack for all the collectors out there so that they can, come in with. Let's pretend like we need a little Raoul Paul on this so he can be out there like, FOMO inducing. Everyone, we get a packages all up nice and neat, tell everyone what they need to own so that they could proudly hop on the Etg bandwagon.
00;44;04;24 - 00;44;26;25
Chris
You know, Massena, obviously, I would say is like the the anchor piece in this. It's it's landscape. It's generative art. I think it's static, even though you can actually apparently that that thing is 3D and there's at some point in the future, perhaps someone will be able to build a renderers for it in which you can actually see it.
00;44;26;25 - 00;44;30;07
Chris
And it's full. Yeah, that's not a static piece. Apparently.
00;44;30;14 - 00;44;32;05
Pri
So I didn't know that actually.
00;44;32;07 - 00;44;41;18
Chris
Yeah, I wish I could tell you more details about it, but there's more going on there than meets the eye. Spectral beings. Derek, for you, were you very introspective beings the other day?
00;44;41;20 - 00;44;58;25
Derek
I was, yeah, I think I touched on I touched on this a little bit, but yeah, I mean, with spectral beings like it, it kind of goes, I think like the thing I love, I mean, just like the pull out language we use, like around these systems, the way he plays with systems can be microscopic. It can be massive.
00;44;58;25 - 00;45;32;01
Derek
It can be galaxy level, like immersion for spectral beings. It's it's about aliens. It's about like what? What would aliens look like if they made themself known? Pulling from references of, you know, like adaptive traits that happen in biology around kind of like fish underwater, in, like the deep sea, for example. And it's just like this spooky, interesting, fascinating like collection where, you know, generative, where you're just looking at a bunch of aliens and, and I just, I think it's it's awesome.
00;45;32;06 - 00;45;49;28
Derek
This was one of his earlier non art blocks works. So this was back in 2021. And I just I've always had an affinity to that collection. You know he's got a bunch of just very very big and heavy immersive immersive works on Roblox too. Caerleon is one of them. The work he did with graders two is interactive and really compelling.
00;45;50;05 - 00;45;53;29
Derek
I'm forgetting the name of that one. Do you remember the name of the one he did with Gorillaz?
00;45;54;02 - 00;45;56;04
Chris
Oh, that. That one is Atlas.
00;45;56;06 - 00;45;59;21
Derek
That's ours. Yeah, that's how it was. That one was really cool too.
00;45;59;23 - 00;46;09;17
Aaron
Other Pax is pretty good too. I mean, that was more recent than our studio, but that may be that may be one of his best works. There's only 100 of them though.
00;46;09;19 - 00;46;29;08
Derek
Yeah, yeah. He's cool and and, and like, I think, you know, just I'll, I mean, this stuff is still very accessible. Like, there's, he's got like, these 7 or 8 engine collections that are all really compelling. They all tell very different stories. They're all I think he's kind of like this very underrated. He's got this very underrated creative practice.
00;46;29;08 - 00;46;33;22
Derek
But man yeah the the work just like slaps. It just totally slaps.
00;46;33;24 - 00;47;06;07
Chris
Yeah. No I didn't 100% though. Like that's spectral being up right now. And there's something about it like a most of it's in monochrome. And so visually maybe def beef is the closest. You know you could draw an association to. But it's got this bit of a timeless feel to it. Like it's very late 19th century, like Tesla, Edison early, you know, work with filaments, but also a bit Victorian, you know, like when seances and spiritualism was all the rage.
00;47;06;07 - 00;47;21;27
Chris
Like, I can kind of feel like all of that in there, you know, just looking at these things and they moves, you know, they're they're is there's an energy inside of them, which I think is, yeah, they're super neat. Like I'm a big, big fan. How's that for art commentary? There's nothing like that.
00;47;21;29 - 00;47;23;01
Pri
It's great. No, no.
00;47;23;03 - 00;47;32;14
Aaron
Sometimes, sometimes that's another, you know, like they it should be neat. I also like I mean it's dynamic I mean that's spectral beings. And I'm like I don't remember that was. Yeah.
00;47;32;17 - 00;47;39;12
Chris
They're empty force. And so he's generated and you know, they run but like you're just getting videos, I believe of these.
00;47;39;12 - 00;47;46;22
Aaron
Yeah. But I don't know, I just think I personally just think more and more stuff will need to be dynamic just to kind of.
00;47;46;24 - 00;47;47;17
Pri
Differentiate.
00;47;47;22 - 00;47;59;17
Aaron
Like solidify its its place in a canon as things develops. I think he, he satisfies that too. Then it's pretty ethereal looking ceiling stuff. So pretty interesting.
00;47;59;19 - 00;48;00;11
Chris
Definitely.
00;48;00;15 - 00;48;02;06
Pri
What else are you guys into?
00;48;02;13 - 00;48;21;01
Aaron
I'm such a Kim Stan guy. Just care about Kim's work. I just feel like that's going to be he's going to be continue to break out this cycle. Yeah. And I feel like he his collector base continued to grow over the past couple of years, you know, and the most difficult of times. So I'm kind of excited to watch that happen.
00;48;21;05 - 00;48;21;23
Pri
Yeah.
00;48;21;26 - 00;48;42;22
Chris
I did notice the, XX0X or exo collection, which you guys played a part in, is finally appears to be through the sell pressure it was experiencing for a while. I think I had a bit of a unique distribution model in that it was commissioned for a Dow, and then I hand it over to the tribute and, and kind of just distribute it out that way.
00;48;42;22 - 00;49;00;28
Chris
But that and crush by Andreas guys and or my two favorite drops of, of 24. I don't think anything else and, you know, really come close to the two of them. Look, I know everyone stands pixel decks, and I get it. And pixel X is great, but it doesn't hit me in the feels the same way Z does.
00;49;00;28 - 00;49;03;20
Chris
Like, there's just not much going on.
00;49;03;21 - 00;49;27;09
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, that's why the Dow initially commissioned it. And was zero and that they collectively thought it was such good work that they wanted it to, to be expanded. I think initially it was 100 or so and then it got expanded to about. All right. I think it's a thousand. Right. My memory serves. Yeah. And I, I personally think that that's his best work.
00;49;27;11 - 00;49;45;13
Aaron
You know, it's like picking price horses with cams. But I do think that that over time will kind of stand out as one of one of the best, if not the best. So I'm excited for that. I like new stuff, though. To Chris, I know at Flamingo we had a a hand in kind of bringing some of his work, to light.
00;49;45;14 - 00;49;50;01
Aaron
I, you know, I still look at that and I'm just like, man, that is a talented, talented artist.
00;49;50;07 - 00;50;32;05
Chris
Yeah. He's not afraid to get wild. He's not afraid to unleash forces out there, which I think is great. You know, I think the digital art space, it's very easy to work with in, formulas, restraint, the constraint to the algorithm and to make very refined and nice things. And that's great. You know, I got no beef with it at the same time, it's nice to see artists work in the other direction and to really free these things and let them run wild and and not be afraid for collision, conflict, color, blurry intersections of crunch petaflops or, you know, in Kim's case, runtime art pixel sorting in in very wild ways.
00;50;32;05 - 00;50;47;06
Chris
You know, we need a little bit of everything. But I think what we're saying, what the three artists we've been talking about, you know, it's really like a celebration of kind of running, running away from that tradition and getting out there and exploring what we really can do with the environment.
00;50;47;07 - 00;50;48;06
Pri
I think you're a.
00;50;48;08 - 00;50;49;23
Chris
You know, of course I'm right for free.
00;50;49;26 - 00;51;04;00
Pri
You know what kind of artist like every time is on my timeline that I like, pause and look at even more. I end up buying like someone in the background, like I like, literally like every time I see it on my feed is infinite. Yeah. Did you guys ever see his work?
00;51;04;02 - 00;51;08;28
Chris
Yeah, I've collected a little bit of it. I want to say the brain drops that they had.
00;51;09;00 - 00;51;09;15
Pri
Yeah.
00;51;09;18 - 00;51;24;09
Chris
It has that more on the density side of things within, are like, you can do these sort of, really like, packed in semantically consistent miniatures, you know, like almost an elevated form of busy town.
00;51;24;12 - 00;51;25;10
Pri
Yeah. It is.
00;51;25;12 - 00;51;36;17
Chris
It gives you a lot to, you know, dig into and but also as you zoom out, you know, there's a consistency across the entire piece as well. And so I do enjoy their work.
00;51;36;19 - 00;51;41;25
Pri
Yeah. And like the video stuff I've been seeing on my feed lately is insane. It looks so good.
00;51;41;28 - 00;51;48;10
Chris
Yeah. Some of Claire's stuff is she starts messing around with videos. Been really interesting. Yeah. Claire Silver there.
00;51;48;13 - 00;51;50;11
Pri
Yeah, I like that too. It's fun.
00;51;50;18 - 00;51;58;03
Chris
Unfortunately. Guys, I gotta drop here. I gotta leave it up to, pick my son at camp, so no worries.
00;51;58;05 - 00;52;00;19
Pri
Well, welcome to net Society. It's Aaron.
00;52;00;19 - 00;52;02;13
Aaron
Chris, welcome, welcome today.
00;52;02;18 - 00;52;15;11
Pri
And we're here to talk digital art, news, crypto, AI and more. Just a quick reminder these opinions and thoughts are our own and not of our employer. Let's get it going. Sorry about that, Finkle.
00;52;15;13 - 00;52;18;03
Chris
It's right where it belongs.
00;52;18;06 - 00;52;22;07
Aaron
All right. Have a good one, guys. Welcome back. Chris. Let's go. Mets!
00;52;22;09 - 00;52;29;21
Chris
Let's go Mets!
00;52;29;23 - 00;52;40;20
Chris
Ooh!