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Welcome to the Cross References podcast on the Book of Ezekiel. In this study, you learn how every small piece of the Bible tells one big story- and most importantly, how they all connect to the cross and Christ.
Whether you’re a newbie Christian or a veteran Bible reader, my goal is that God’s Word will make more sense to you after every episode.
Host: Luke Taylor
The Battle of Gog and Magog
Ezekiel 38:17-39:8
Ezekiel series, Part 75
Introduction
In 1948, Israel was attacked by a coalition of five nations. The Israelis were outnumbered 2 to 1, outgunned 3 to 1, outclassed in every way, and yet they were victorious against their enemies.
In 1967, Israel was attacked again by another coalition of nations. They again were outnumbered 3 to 1, outgunned 4 to 1, outclassed in every way, and yet they were victorious against their enemies.
In the future- perhaps the near future- Israel is going to suffer another attack: from Russia, Iran, Turkey, and a few nations in Africa. Russia alone is 800 times larger than Israel. We don’t quite yet know how much they will be outnumbered, outgunned and outclassed. But we do know how it’s going to turn out.
And if you don’t know, you’ll find out what happens today on the Cross References podcast.
[theme music]
(Continued)
Welcome to the book of Ezekiel: a Cross References Bible study where we learn how every small piece of the Bible tells one big story- and how they all connect to the cross and Christ.
My name is Luke Taylor, and I’m a Spider-Man geek. I’ve always been a Spider-Man geek. I don’t read comic books- I was never a comic-reader-kind-of-gee- but I could tell you about a lot of the Spider-Man classic stories; I own all the movies, seen the shows, and so on and so forth.
And now that I’m the parent of a five-year-old, I get to relive those things with him. The ones he is old enough to see, anyway.
And one of the famous Spider-Man storylines is the Sinister Six. That’s when six of Spider-Man’s villains decide to team up to take him down. Doctor Octopus, Scorpion, Mysterio, Shocker, Rhino and the Chameleon. Over the years and depending who was telling the story, there have been lots of versions of the Sinister Six- the lineup isn’t always the same- but there’s a recurring theme of six enemies working together against Spider-Man.
Israel has a similar backstory. Again and again, a sinister coalition of nations teams up to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, roughly five of them; and again and again, God shows up in a mighty way. That’s the only reason Israel has survived as long as it has.
And the Bible says it’s going to happen again. Five nations- Turkey, Russia, Iran, Libya and either Ethiopia or Sudan- will attack Israel. There’s some ambiguity, because people groups move over time and names of places change. Some say Germany is also a part of this. Some say Turkey leads the invasion and that Russia has nothing to do with it. That’s why I say “roughly” five nations.
And over the past four episodes of this podcast, we have gone through all the set-up. Who these nations are, where they are, why they attack, and various theories as to when they’ll attack. I felt that all those topics were with their own episodes to discuss.
And we’ve picked our way through Ezekiel 38 at a snail’s pace, but now that we’ve covered all the backstory, I’m finally ready to talk about the WHAT- what happens when these five nations attack Israel.
(And I wish it was six, so I could call them a sinister six. But it’s not a sinister six, it’s not a fantastic four; it’s five. And if anyone has a good name for them, send it my way. But for now, we’ll just refer to this as the battle of Gog and Magog.)
How does it all turn out? That’s what we’re going to finally look at today.
V17-23, A Series of Fortunate Events
And I’ll start at verse 15, as Gog approaches with his forces.
Ezekiel 38:15-17
15 You will come from your place out of the uttermost parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great host, a mighty army. 16 You will come up against my people Israel, like a cloud covering the land. In the latter days I will bring you against my land, that the nations may know me, when through you, O Gog, I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. (Verse 17 is pretty interesting) 17 “Thus says the Lord God: Are you he of whom I spoke in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel, who in those days prophesied for years that I would bring you against them?
I spoke on this verse before, but to recap, I believe this is referring to the Antichrist. In the Hebrew, this is an open-ended question. God is saying to Gog, “Are you the one I’ve been saying would someday come against Israel?” And if you look at the prophets of the Old Testament, no, Gog was not prophesied. He basically comes out of the blue right here in Ezekiel 38, quite randomly. But the Antichrist IS prophesied to come throughout the Old Testament, and later on in the New Testament as well.
So I think this question is very timely. When this attack happens, many will question: is the leader of this coalition the Antichrist? And some people who know a little bit about Bible prophecy might even assume that it is. But no, Gog is not the Antichrist; the leader of this attack will not be the antichrist. People will wonder if he is, which is why God throws the question out right here. But he’s not. The antichrist will have a 7-year reign. Gog is going to fail right here.
Ezekiel 38:18-20
18 But on that day, the day that Gog shall come against the land of Israel, declares the Lord God, my wrath will be roused in my anger. 19 For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea and the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the field and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the people who are on the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence. And the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.
So Gog’s armies are going to march in from the North. As I said last time, Russia has already set up camp in Syria, which is the nation just to Israel’s immediately North. So they already have a pathway straight into Israel at the time they decide to attack.
However, the Bible says that when they do march in to attack, they will invade the land of Israel, and before they can attack Israel, the land is hit with a massive earthquake. It says that all the people on the face of the earth will quake at God’s presence. That either means that they will feel the earthquake physically, or it means that they will see news of this battle and shake from fear. In Israel itself, it says mountains will topple and there will be landslides from the shifting of the ground.
Ezekiel 38:21
21 I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Lord God. Every man's sword will be against his brother.
What are the odds that just as you’re about to attack someone, a huge earthquake happens underneath your feet right at that moment. Just think about it: what are the odds? Of course, we who read the Bible will know it’s no coincidence.
In the pandemonium of the earthquake, in the confusion, people will be turning their weapons on each other. People will be accidentally shooting and killing each other.
For a cross reference to this, one story I always think about when I read phrases like this in the Bible is Gideon. He took his 300 men up on that hillside and they made a bunch of noise to make the Midianites believe that there were more enemies attacking them than there actually were. And this created such a panic in the Midianite camp that it says this in
Judges 7:22
When they blew the 300 trumpets, the Lord set every man's sword against his comrade and against all the army.
The people were so afraid and overwhelmed with fear, the men came charging out of their tents with their swords and they were actually slaying each other. This happens repeatedly in the Bible when people are overcome with fear while in battle. And God says it’s going to happen again at the battle of Gog and Magog.
Ezekiel 38:22-23
22 With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with him, and I will rain upon him and his hordes and the many peoples who are with him torrential rains and hailstones, fire and sulfur. 23 So I will show my greatness and my holiness and make myself known in the eyes of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.
So the word “pestilence” here is interesting. It usually refers to a longterm illness, but this is something that happens actually pretty quickly. There’s an earthquake, people are killing each other in confusion, and then it says that a sickness falls upon many of them that pretty much instantly kills them. So I imagine something like a poison gas, or biological warfare.
It also says that they’re going to be killed with hailstones of fire and sulfur. This is the same expression as fire and brimstone. When someone is considered a hate preacher or a preacher who is too angry and yells too much, they are often derisively called a fire-and-brimstone preacher. Well, that may or may not always be a fair characterization, because the Bible warns us that sometimes God is a fire-and-brimstone God. The Lord will visit fire and brimstone upon His enemies, and He does that here in the battle of Gog and Magog.
Now a fair question we can ask here is: are this fire and brimstone and poison gases going to be something supernatural, or will there be a naturalistic explanation? Now listen, I’m totally fine with saying it’s supernatural. The earthquake, the panic, a lot of supernatural stuff is going on in this story. But I’m also comfortable with saying that there may be a natural explanation for some of this, and no, it is not climate change. It’s something that we find as we turn the page to chapter 39.
V1-6, God Retaliates
Yes, we’re not stopping at the end of the chapter this time. We’re going to continue straight forward with
Ezekiel 39:1-6
“And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. 2 And I will turn you about and drive you forward, and bring you up from the uttermost parts of the north, and lead you against the mountains of Israel. 3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand, and will make your arrows drop out of your right hand. 4 You shall fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your hordes and the peoples who are with you. I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. 5 You shall fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Lord God. 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who dwell securely in the coastlands, and they shall know that I am the Lord.
So God talks about knocking the bows and arrows out of their hands. As I’ve said in a recent episode, I take the Bible literally, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize when the Bible uses symbolism and metaphor. In Ezekiel’s day, talking about coming against your enemies with bows and arrows made perfect sense. In our day, that’s not how we fight battles.
So I’m totally comfortable with saying that these could be referring to modern weapons. M16s. AK-47s. Rocket artillery, missiles. That’s probably the kind of stuff an invading army would come against Israel with if Gog and Magog happened today.
Israel has one of the most technologically advanced militaries in the world. You are not coming against them with bows and arrows and expecting to get much done. You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. You would bring your greatest weapons in your arsenal to the battlefield.
I’m comfortable with a variety of possibilities. I’m not going to be dogmatic and say it has to mean this or that. Prophetic language can sometimes leave a lot of room for interpretation, and sometimes we just won’t know how it’s all going to turn out until we get there.
I was asked about this on Twitter this past week by a user named Kaili. She asked me how people like myself- who describe ourselves as biblical literalists- can believe Gog and Magog is a future battle when it describes ancient weapons like bows and arrows.
We talked about this for a few days this past week, and there’s only so much you can say in a tweet, which is why I’d like to try to explain it a little deeper right here. Because it’s a very fair question, and I think a lot of people misunderstand what it means to be a biblical literalist.
We biblical literalists are often accused of not reading the Bible consistently because we take some things as literal and other things as symbolic or metaphorical. Being a literalist does not mean we don’t recognize that there are symbols and metaphors in the Bible, especially in the prophetic books like Ezekiel.
So I explained to Kaili that we believe the Gog and Magog battle will actually happen someday, but it doesn’t necessarily have to happen with the weapons that Ezekiel is describing. He was using the vocabulary of his day to describe how a battle is fought. He wouldn’t have had words like “missiles” or “rockets” or “assault rifles” in his language, so he’s using the closest thing.
So here’s the interpretive principle that this goes back to: when the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense. And I will go through verse-by-verse and make sense of them that way. If a verse makes sense literally, I accept it literally; if a verse doesn’t make sense literally, I interpret it as close to literally as I can while accepting that some words might be stand-ins for something else.
So Kaili said, “But don’t all Christians read the Bible that way, whether they call themselves literalists or not?” And my response is: yes! All Christians will use the mantra “if the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense.” That’s a very common phrase within hermeneutics classes.
The difference for literalists is that we apply that consistently; whether we’re in a historical narrative book, or a prophecy book, or a poetry book, wherever. If I’m reading about how God created the world in 6 days, I actually believe that in Genesis. Literally. Not all Christians believe that literally, but I do.
Some Christians look at Revelation and say it’s all symbolic, that these things have spiritual meaning but not a real-world meaning. I disagree. I think when Revelation 8 or 9 talks about one third of the waters on the earth turning to blood, it will really happen.
Some Christians will say they believe the plagues of Moses in the book of Exodus were literal, but the plagues in Revelation are symbolic. I don’t. I read it all literally; that’s why I say that biblical literalists are the only view that’s consistent.
Some Christians believe that the prophecies about Jesus coming to earth through a virgin birth are literal, but the prophecies in Revelation 7 about the 144,000 virgin Jewish servants are symbolic. I disagree. I read it all literally. I think that’s the only way to be consistent. That’s what it means to me to be a literalist. I don’t look at one prophecy about a virgin and say it’s literal and another prophecy about virgins and say it’s symbolic language.
It would be easy to say it’s symbolic where it talks about the 144,000 virgins in Revelation and say that it’s symbolic language. But it also would have been easy to say that the prophecy about a virgin birth in Isaiah 7 was just symbolic language. And that was fulfilled literally.
If I read a prophetic text and it talks about 5 specific nations attacking Israel, I believe it will happen. If we could find these 5 nations doing that in history, then perhaps the battle already happened. But since we can’t, I believe this battle is yet future. I take it literally, even if some descriptions of the event use symbolic language.
The arrows can be missiles. I’m fine with saying that. Maybe these nations use literal arrows; it just doesn’t make as much sense to me why they would do that. It makes more logical sense to me that this was Ezekiel’s way of referring to modern weapons. He didn’t have the word “gun” back then; he was doing the best he could with the vocabulary of 2500 years ago. But I really appreciate Kaili bringing up those questions and giving me a chance to explain this further. Those are good questions and fair questions.
Let’s get back to what Ezekiel 39 is saying. “Then I will strike your bow from your left hand, and will make your arrows drop out of your right hand.”
So my assumption here is that when people launch their missiles at Israel, God swats the attack right back at them. Their missiles will drop out of the sky. Or maybe God sends hailstones to knock them down. Maybe it’s Israel’s Iron Dome program, although I don’t think that’s it. I wonder if perhaps they launch missiles at Israel, and the missiles just drop out of the sky or turn around and rebound straight back into Gog’s forces.
Now let’s go back to what I said about how you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. If you wanted to obliterate the Jewish people, you’d bring your most powerful weapons. That would be nuclear and perhaps biological warfare. So if they launch nukes or dirty bombs at Israel, and God causes their quote-unquote arrows to drop, that means they get wiped out by their own warfare.
Now let’s go back to what chapter 38 said. The people will be killed by pestilence and fire and brimstone raining down from heaven. Could that be a supernatural strike from heaven? Absolutely. But another possibility in my mind is that the pestilence is their own dirty bombs exploding in their faces, and that the fire raining down from heaven are their own nuclear bombs. And when we get to next week’s lesson and read about the aftermath of this conflict, we’re actually going to see some strong evidence of biological or nuclear warfare being a part of this thing.
So there are a lot of ways Gog and Magog could play out in the details. We have the big picture; we have to wait and see on some of the specifics. But one thing’s for sure: it’s going to be plain and obvious that God is the one saving Israel. That’s the point of this whole thing.
V7-8, Why
Ezekiel 39:7-8
7 “And my holy name I will make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel. 8 Behold, it is coming and it will be brought about, declares the Lord God. That is the day of which I have spoken.
We went through the reasons WHY Gog attacks in last week’s episode. And thank you for all who tuned in, by the way. Broke a new record for day-one downloads, had over 500 for that. Thank you so much, and to all who are new to this podcast, I’m glad you’re here. The rest of us have been here a while; it’s been a three-year journey to get to this point in Ezekiel, but hey, you got here just as we got to the best part. This is the climax of the book of Ezekiel. What you’re hearing right now, what we read today, that could be considered the action climax of this book. More on that as we close down soon.
And as I was saying, we went through the reasons WHY Gog attacks in last week’s episode. And it was for the land, and for the wealth, and for the people… but we also said that it happened because God wanted to bring it about. But right here, we see why God wanted to bring it about.
I mentioned at the beginning that I have a five-year-old boy. If you’ve ever raised a five-year-old, you’ve received the dreaded “why” questions. Why-why-why? Every answer you give could be countered with another “why?” And you can do that with Ezekiel 38.
Why does Gog attack Israel? Well, because he wants their wealth. Why? Because God directed His attention to Israel’s wealth. Why? Because God wanted Gog and these nations to attack Israel. Why? Because God wanted to make His holy name known in Israel, and for all nations to bear witness to the fact- the FACT- that the Lord is real.
The rest of the world is going to look at what happens when the Battle of Gog and Magog takes place, and you know what they’re going to say? Wow, God of Israel is real. The world is gonna know it. It’s gonna be undeniable. Only the most hard-hearted of atheists will be able to deny the evidence of their own eyes and ears.
There is a God, and the Jews are His people that He has chosen to work through and make an example of in this world, and He takes care of them. He who watches over Israel will not sleep nor slumber.
This might sound selfish, but what I’m most excited about when the Battle of Gog and Magog takes place is that this will put Replacement Theology to death. If anyone had any thoughts in their head that God is finished with the Jewish people and that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan for the end times, the Battle of Gog and Magog will put that to rest.
Because after this battle is finished, the world- the whole world- including every member of every religion- including every Christian who teaches that the nation of Israel is a satanic deception- will have to acknowledge that Israel has a divine king, and this land belongs to Him. He is qados beyisrael (kay-dos bee-iz-ray-el): the Holy One IN Israel.
It’s a new title God gives Himself right here. Throughout the book, He was the Holy One OF Israel. But after Gog and Magog, He becomes the Holy One IN Israel.
Gog and Magog has a lot of moving parts. But it’s all part of God’s sovereign plan. And someday, if you see a coalition of roughly five nations banding together to attack God’s people, fret not. Things aren’t falling apart; they’re falling into place.
[musical interlude]
Closing Thoughts
Next time on this podcast, we have one more interesting aspect of the battle of Gog and Magog to focus on: the aftermath. Of all the battles that are described in the Bible, none of them spend as much time talking about the aftermath or cleanup except for this one. So make sure you’re subscribed so you can get it as we finish up chapter 39!
Email: crossreferencespodcast@gmail.com
Some recent mailbag comments, thank you to Frank for his compliments on this recent series of episodes about Ezekiel 38. And also thank you to Alisha for her message about an older episode I did with Chet Morton. She said, “I have heard and enjoyed several of Chet’s teachings, can’t get enough KJV Bible. Bless you all keep up the good work.”
So, as we wrap up today, let’s take a big-picture look at Ezekiel 38 and how it fits into the overall story that Ezekiel is telling. If we think about the layout of the book of Ezekiel, I see it as a book with two climaxes. You can pretty neatly divide the book into two halves, and each half has its own climax.
Ezekiel is 48 chapters long. The first 24 chapters are about warnings and announcement of doom upon Jerusalem, and it ends in chapter 24 with Jerusalem being destroyed. Totally wiped out. Everything that Ezekiel had been warning them about for 24 chapters had just been fulfilled. Ezekiel could have ended the book and the story right there, and it would have been a complete book. A very depressing book, but everything would have been wrapped up neatly.
Chapter 24 begins with Israel’s enemy from the north- Babylon- descending upon its capital of Jerusalem, which happened in 586 BC, and the situation looks entirely hopeless- and it is. There’s no hope. The city is way outnumbered, way outgunned, way outclassed. The city is wiped out. One-third of the people are killed, one-third are enslaved, and one-third head for the hills.
But then Ezekiel keeps going, and chapter 25 begins a series of judgments on the foreign nations. And they have earned some judgment from God as well. And then chapter 33 opens up a new section of Ezekiel, where God starts dropping in some encouraging thoughts, and then He starts promising to bring Israel back into their land, and giving them a new heart and a new spirit, and this doesn’t sound very much like Ezekiel. This is happy. Ezekiel has been Ron Swanson for 32 chapters, and suddenly he starts sounding more like Leslie Knope.
And everything just keeps getting better and better for Israel- until you hit chapter 38. And then it all looks like it’s going downhill again. Another enemy from the north descends upon Israel. And once again, Israel is way outnumbered, way outgunned, way outclassed. We’ve seen this move before. We’ve seen this happen within Ezekiel! We know what happens next. An enemy from the north descends upon Israel and will wipe them out. There’s no hope.
There’s no natural hope. In the natural, Israel would have no chance. But God doesn’t operate in the natural. God is supernatural. And Israel’s defense will not come from the natural realm. It’s going to come in such a way that God is known in the midst of His people Israel, and all nations will know that He is the Lord.
And so the book of Ezekiel has two climaxes. The first was in chapter 24, and it doesn’t have a happy ending for Israel, except that it wasn’t the ending. The second climax comes in chapters 38 and 39, and that’s going to have good news for Ezekiel’s audience. In fact, I’ll end with these words from Iain Duguid, author of the NIV Application Commentary on Ezekiel. He says in that book:
Why was Ezekiel 38-39 good news for Ezekiel’s original audience? Because it made clear the fact that the events of 586 BC could never be repeated. Israel had once because of her sin so polluted the land that it had become totally unfit for divine habitation. But when God reverses that situation and regathers his people, He will pour out his spirit in the same measure as He once poured out His wrath. This will bring about a radical change in the hearts of His people and in the security of his presence with them, such that he will never again hide his face from them. Though tribulations, such as the assault by Gog, will continue, they will no longer be marks of God’s wrath but opportunities for God to uncover His power to the world.
Thanks for listening to this Cross References Bible Study on the Book of Ezekiel. This has been Luke Taylor, and I hope the Bible makes more sense to you after this episode.