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The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. On this show, pastor Matt sits down with his friends to answer your questions about life, Jesus, and the bible. Let's get into the episode.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Hey, everybody. Welcome to the debrief. I've had a summer break. It's good to be back with everyone. I am here with my friend David Sean.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So before we start the show, please spell your last name. David Sean, everybody, you heard me correctly.
Pastor David Chrzan:Spell it for me. It's C H R Z A N. It's a great internet security password. If anybody ever needs one For one
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:more time, spell it.
Pastor David Chrzan:C h r z a n. Every So no a, no u, no w. Everything is Do your parents know how to spell?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What what ethnicity is Scharzan.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. It's Polish. Polish.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. And it is pronounced correctly, Sean.
Pastor David Chrzan:It's pronounced Sean. Yeah. In fact, a couple years ago, I was in Poland after Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukrainians were the refugees were fleeing. And I got there to Poland and showed them my name. Everybody starts laughing immediately.
Pastor David Chrzan:Right? Yeah. And I'm like, okay, well, what are you laughing about? Well, if you use the word Sean as a noun, it means horseradish and it's it's it's a prominent horseradish brand in Poland as a noun.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's why you're so zesty.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. But if you use it as a verb Uh-oh. It means to speak nonsense Yes. Or to BS someone. So I figured I came from this long distinguished line of BS ing horseradish farmers.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Dude, I had a professor in college, Marler, and in French it means poop scooper. So his family were poop scoopers in France. So I was like, I was never more grateful for Brown in my life. Okay. So whenever I try to call you on the phone, I have to tell Siri, hey, Siri.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Call David Scherzin. Yeah. But I have to make up a last name. Otherwise, she can't find you. She's like, there's no David Sean.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:I've a few times with Siri to train it to say my name so that I can call my wife. Yeah. And I always have to go, Siri, call Jenny Chirzan. Because I've heard it all. Cherzon, Charzen, Charzard, you name it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I love it. Yeah. So did you meet Aurelio? Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I have to say Aurelio or else she can't find him. Like yeah. She's like, there's no Aurelio in your phone. So pastor Aurelio was here at Hunter Park for years, and so actually, you replaced him, but he's still a good friend, still goes to Hunter Park. Alright.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I don't know the answer to this question. You don't? How did we meet? I don't know.
Pastor David Chrzan:Matt, the first time we
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:met I'm nervous about Yeah. Your having
Pastor David Chrzan:the first time we met, you came through like a whirling dervish Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Knew into this was gonna be bad.
Pastor David Chrzan:The one of the copy areas of Saddleback Church's new ministry center.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. And For the layperson, that's the office.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. The office. Yeah. Saddleback in Vince terms
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:for every building that I always have to translate. So what did you call it? The ministry center.
Pastor David Chrzan:The ministry center.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. IE, really nice office space.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yes. With really great copiers.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:And free popcorn. Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They had popcorn maker machine and soda fountain. Yeah. Yeah. I worked there every Wednesday, it was fabulous.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. So you came through, didn't really we didn't really connect or anything at that particular moment, but that was my that was my very first Matt Brown
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Did I have long hair? Yeah. I must have, yeah, Yeah. Looked like Jesus, inside and out.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. I I didn't think you were, but yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I don't remember the first time meeting you, but I know I've known you for years. Yeah. So because we've interacted so many times. Yeah. You know, we did I mean, my first like memory, like we spent a day together for a Saddleback staff training where we played like games all day long and
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah, was like human development.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah, we did weird A
Pastor David Chrzan:gal, I can't remember her name right now. She's actually a congresswoman in the state of Colorado. And she had a had a business that she came out consulting. It was about human development. And you were one of the folks that we invited over saying, hey, it's here, available.
Pastor David Chrzan:Would you guys like to come? And you guys did. And that was one of the first times that we really got to Yeah. Talk little Yeah. So And then after that, I think it was when the next most significant time was at the in the pre the run up to the SBC convention here at Anaheim.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:And we both fought over who was going to invite the singing evangelist.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The singing evangelist. The Southern Baptist Convention wanted us to be aware that there were singing evangelists for hire. So I humbly offered to pay for Saddleback to have a singing evangelist. I was gonna pay for it Like, they no expense whatsoever for Saddleback Church. Yep.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I was going to pay for a singing evangelist to perform in the name of Jesus Yep. Lead thousands to Christ And at Saddleback, and you guys turned me down.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yes. Yes. We we
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:A generous offer rebuffed.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yes. We we took that money and invested in admissions.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, you spent twenty four years as the chief of staff of Saddleback Church.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Anybody watches The West Wing, you know David was a big deal. Chief of Staff. The younger audience doesn't know what that is. Google the West Wing. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Spent twenty Google Leo
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. In The West Wing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You spent twenty four years as the
Pastor David Chrzan:Chief of Staff for Saddleback Church. What exactly does the Chief of Staff do? That's a great question. When I first got into the when when Rick first asked me to come alongside him, that day, first thing off, I thought I was getting fired. Oh.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. He walked into my office. You know what? You you somebody comes in behind and you think it's like something's not gonna turn out right. Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:And I turn around and he was reaching over to shake my hand and closing the door at the same time.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Oh, that's never good.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. And it was at a time when Saddleback was cutting back staff, so I thought, oh, I I guess I didn't make it, like I didn't make the cut. But in that day, it was that was 09/07/2001.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And
Pastor David Chrzan:he asked me to come alongside him, kind of be an assistant at the start of Yeah. I I said, well, I'd love to, you know, consider this. Let me go home and talk to my wife. I I went home. I talked to Jenny.
Pastor David Chrzan:She said yes. So I came back on the eighth and I said, yes, we'd love to do that. I I I'd love to do this for you. That night, he said he said, it's great. We'll have dinner at our house.
Pastor David Chrzan:He
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And invited told him whole story. Don't lie. Yeah. He he he invited
Pastor David Chrzan:us over to the house, and we got to the house, and his wife, Kay, had seen me before and thought that I was a real, like, conscious, healthy eater. Which is not true.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You're a marble man, smoking Yeah. Six packs a
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's not true. He sounds
Pastor David Chrzan:like I got this body on Slim Jims and Doritos.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Pastor David Chrzan:But she saw that and so she cooked vegetable lasagna.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Oh, yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:And I thought, oh, I'm not even gonna make it through the first night. And so Did you get it down though? I I did. I did the old fashioned way, like the day the way you did it when you were, like, five or six years old, you take a bite and you take a swig of water. Right?
Pastor David Chrzan:Take a bite, take a swig of water, and you just keep swallowing the food. I actually had two plates because I wasn't being real. Was I was showcasing that night. Had good night. I wanted I wanted the role.
Pastor David Chrzan:Right? I wanted the role.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:David Charzon being unreal with himself.
Pastor David Chrzan:That's right. And So what does what does chief of staff do? Yeah. So the chief of staff is basically it is you're an air traffic controller. Okay.
Pastor David Chrzan:There's a lot of things that that come through a senior pastor's office. And I oversaw a team of 12 people that helped fulfill the projects that Rick wanted to do, helped him get where he wanted to go, say what he wanted to say, do what he wanted to do within the confines or within, you know, what God had had been asking him to do. So I was the air traffic controller. I knew all the people on the outside of Saddleback. I knew all the people on the inside of Saddleback.
Pastor David Chrzan:I knew the pastors. I knew the politicians. I knew the business leaders, the entertainers, all of that. And it was about the role was about having capacity in the moment to fulfill what Rick wanted to do in that moment. Rick's a Which very
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:is no easy task.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. Rick's a Rick Rick is a he's an intentional opportunist.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm.
Pastor David Chrzan:As I would say. He's strategic planning, he's okay with it, but Rick is an intentional opportunist. You're a surfer, you know when you see a good wave
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah, catch it.
Pastor David Chrzan:You're gonna do everything you can to catch it. And Rick would God gave Rick this ability to see waves of all shapes and sizes and ride shape Yeah. Waves of all shapes and sizes. And so I felt it was my role, my responsibility to help him get on that wave and ride it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And so just for our younger audience, you can Google Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. It's the most sold Christian book in history. Really changed world changing book. And you came on staff right before that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Saddleback was going through a tough time at the time, I was on staff then, and I mean, came into work one day and you guys, you can't imagine this. How many people would you say worked in each section? So there was four quadrants of that building. So I was in the bottom left section. Would you say a 150 people maybe per Yeah, at
Pastor David Chrzan:least at the time at the time that you were there, probably a 100 to a 125 people in a section?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So there's a 100 to a 125 employees in a section. I came to work on that Wednesday and there were three of us. My whole section was let go. Like, it was very very difficult time, so two things happened that changed the world. Nineeleven Yep.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And the release of Purpose Driven Life, and Saddleback just kind of launched into the stratosphere. So you take a serious job, it's a difficult job, and then all of a sudden, you are the chief of staff to the evangelical pope. I mean, it just Rick became the world's pastor overnight and it was transforming in an amazing way for those of us who were blessed by the Saddleback ministry. Yeah. But for you, it was, I mean, you are now going everywhere and meeting heads of state and, you know, it's an interesting transition from thinking you're getting fired to being the right hand man to the evangelical pope and learning to eat vegetable, was it lasagna?
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. Vegetable lasagna. Yes. Yeah. Probably the most insightful story or the most telling story at that time, my all my kids played soccer.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Pastor David Chrzan:And we we love soccer as a family, and I can remember one night, it's six 07:00 06:00 at night, I'm down on the soccer field watching my kids play soccer, and my phone rings, and I look at the phone, and it's coming from a 202 area code. And when you've been in around area codes long enough, you know that's Washington DC. And so I thought, oh my gosh, who is this? Yeah. Right?
Pastor David Chrzan:And I pick up the phone, I answer the phone, and I said, hello, this is David. How can I help? And on the other side, I hear the voice of Ambassador Lee from South Korea. Wow. And and the moment he said it, I pulled the phone away from my ear and go, what in the world is this?
Pastor David Chrzan:And Ambassador Lee goes on and proceeds to say that he wants my help to get his president time with President Bush at the time so that they can go off, have private time together, pray for one another, and talk about some of the issues that were facing South Korea at the Wow. So and these are troop movements and geopolitical things and all this other stuff, and I remember hanging up the phone.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah, you're coaching your kids at soccer, yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah, I hang up the phone, and I remember voicing out loud to God. I just go, God, I am a pastor. What is going on here?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:And and basically in that moment, I I heard God say, hey, it's okay. Deal with it. Amen. And Yeah. Well, it's
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:just like Jesus said, one day you will speak before governors and kings Yeah. In my name.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. And and I remember shortly after that happened, I just remember picking up the phone and calling a friend and describing what happened. Put me in touch with the right people. And the presidents got together. And after they were done, I remember Ambassador Lee calling me back and saying, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Pastor David Chrzan:It was so good. And I'm just going, oh, okay. Now, we're just flying in a different space, in a different zone. Well,
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:because I know you, because a lot of people are thinking, God's never gonna use me that way, and I'm never gonna connect somebody to president George W Bush or whatever, but that's not how you started. I love the start of your story and this is a funny story, I didn't prep you before this and you guys are gonna love this in the studio. So, right, so so God is using you in these amazing ways, but just tell us real briefly about how your career in ministry started in the U Haul on the way to seminary. Yeah. Because they need to hear this story because a lot of you, you you think, if we have a hardship, then it's not God's time.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So you and your wife are headed to seminary to follow God's will.
Pastor David Chrzan:That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Tell us the story.
Pastor David Chrzan:Just graduated from college. We'd just been married a couple of months and it was time to go to seminary because that's what you did back in those And we packed everything up into a big 25 foot Ryder truck. It was a friend of mine. In fact, he was just here this last week. He was a friend that we he he led me to Christ.
Pastor David Chrzan:We graduated high school together, college, went to seminary together. And on the way to seminary, he was driving the truck, and it's like 04:00 in the morning, and we're all struggling to stay awake and stay on the road. And, well, he drifted off the side of the road. The truck rolled over. He got out okay.
Pastor David Chrzan:The engine caught on fire, it hit the gas tank, and and the whole thing the whole everything goes up in a mushroom cloud. My wife is standing at the top of the hill
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Not looking why down she didn't go up in the mushroom cloud.
Pastor David Chrzan:No. She did not. She was in a she was on a telephone, a pay telephone, which you don't even know what those are anymore. She's on a pay telephone looking down, talking to her dad as she sees everything go up in in this big huge cloud of flame, and she's going, dad, come and get me out of Texas. And so that traumatic event shaped shaped and reshaped our lives.
Pastor David Chrzan:And from that day, for about the next fifteen years, you know, I knew God was calling me to ministry, but at the time, my wife was not interested. Like, we fought. Every time we talked about ministry, we fought about ministry. And finally, there was a moment where I just said, God, I can't I can't live like this anymore. I I can't live like this.
Pastor David Chrzan:You're gonna have to take away this calling. You're gonna you're gonna have to extinguish this passion. I don't care what you do. If I'm going into ministry, I'm going in to ministry with my family intact and with my wife. Amen.
Pastor David Chrzan:And and then and then God did a miracle. Yeah. Because over the next eight months, you know, my wife did a a big kinda one eighty and she became not an adversary, she she became my biggest advocate to get in the ministry. And now at that time, I'm going get get behind me. Like, don't wanna I don't want we're not doing this because I I've seen that pathway, you know, I I'm not doing this.
Pastor David Chrzan:And so for the next four years after that, I I fought it. And she got my whole small group on it until finally in February 2000. I woke up that morning, February February 1, the year February, and I said, I'm a big believer in there's decision making and then problem solving. Yeah. Problem solving does not come before decision making.
Pastor David Chrzan:You make the decision and then you solve the problems that go with that decision Mhmm. With making that decision.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And
Pastor David Chrzan:so I woke up that morning and I said, you know what? It's time for me to leave the sheriff's department because that time I was now in the sheriff's department.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And
Pastor David Chrzan:I had no idea what I was gonna do. None whatsoever. No I didn't there were a lot not a lot of people that even knew what I was doing, but I, without a shadow of a doubt, I knew that God wanted me to move on. And so woke up that morning, knew what I needed to do. I went in and told my boss.
Pastor David Chrzan:He thought I was nuts. And two days later, I got a I got a call from pastor John Baker, founder of Celebrate Recovery. He called me and asked me if I would be interested in in coming on his team. And
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Which is just amazing.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. And over the course of the next, like, week and a half, my wife, you know, interviewed for the role, and I interviewed for the role. And a week and a half later, they came and said we were hired.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's
Pastor David Chrzan:great. And and at the time, I remember when John called me, I was in my office downtown Santa Ana in the sheriff's department and he said, David, just wanna let you know, you're hired. You get to be you get to come on staff at Saddleback. When do you wanna start? And I said, as soon as possible.
Pastor David Chrzan:As soon as possible. And I and even even this moment, I still get goosebumps because as soon as I hung up the phone, I recalled a moment in my head. And I remember telling my boss I was leaving for the rest of the day. I ran out to my car, which was a 1988 Suzuki Samurai. I had to you know, it's like La Flintstones vehicle that you had Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:To get And and I I I broke every speed limit law on the way going home. I pulled up into the driveway. I opened up my garage door. I climbed up in the little attic above our garage, and I found this one box, and it was the one box from the remaining items of our fire.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I
Pastor David Chrzan:remember leafing through, and I pulled out this folder, and I'm leafing through this folder, and I pull out this note. Yeah. This is
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:one of the coolest stories
Pastor David Chrzan:I've And ever the note says, David, I'm sure you did the best thing you could do by dropping out of school when you're dead, family comes first. There's always time for ministry, but your wife must be behind it. Regroup and hang on. The tide always comes back in. Now, I'm reading that note and I'm remembering when I wrote that note, I was a poor seminary student making less than $8,000 a year.
Pastor David Chrzan:I was on the verge of losing my entire family. I was living in a state that I didn't grow up in, and and I was getting ready to go to another state, California, that I'd never been part of. And in that moment, I just reflected back on going, God, it is your sovereignty. It's not about who I am, but it was about God's sovereignty for me to fulfill what he wanted me to do. And so he orchestrated all these pieces to get us here.
Pastor David Chrzan:And that note, again, David, I'm sure you did the best thing you could do by dropping out of school. You did. It's always time for ministry. Just regroup and hang on. The title always comes back in.
Pastor David Chrzan:Sign Rick Warren. And Yeah. You couldn't have told me back then that I would be and would have served Yeah. Rick for the next twenty
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:first detail you forgot. So when he was struggling in seminary, he wrote megachurch pastors all across The United States, and only one responded with a letter. Yeah. And it was Rick Warren who you later worked for.
Pastor David Chrzan:I later worked for.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it's just I I I want David to share that story because so many times I see Christians give up too soon, quit too soon because it got hard too quick. Yeah. And really, ultimately, to follow Jesus is to burn up all your stuff and to say, here I come. In your case, it just actually happened.
Pastor David Chrzan:It happened.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And, you know, you and your wife, Jenny, just an amazing couple. We're so blessed to have you here at Sandals. And, you know, for those listening, you have no idea, so when, you know, David and I became friends and when we were interviewing David for this role, I was not a part of the process because I didn't want to get hurt feelings. Because I thought I thought there's no way he's gonna move from Orange County to Riverside. This is not gonna happen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so I just kinda removed myself from the situation because I wanted to love you no matter what. And so when you came, I just was so blessed and such a huge testimony to God's love for sandals that he brought someone as amazing as you and Jenny to us. So let me just real quick, let's jump back to Saddleback, the second greatest church in California. During your time at Saddleback It
Pastor David Chrzan:is now.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. It is now. Amen. During your time at Saddleback, you were directly involved in programs to bring the gospel all over the world. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:When did Global Missions become something you were just so passionate about? Wow.
Pastor David Chrzan:Because that's huge. Yeah. It was actually my birthday, 05/02/2003 is when that happened. I'd been working for Rick for about three years. I've been working with Saddleback for about three years, And we were in South Africa.
Pastor David Chrzan:And we were on a tour of a number of big countries. And each country had its issues. Each country had things that they were struggling with. And while we were in South Africa, we met up with a young pastor who was in the slums outside of in in South Africa. And he took us to his church.
Pastor David Chrzan:And here's this little church of like 75 people, and 25 of them are orphans because of HIV and AIDS. And next to his his little tent church, he has a garden. And and so at that time, that impacted Rick in an incredible way later that night, we went back to our hotel room, and you could see that he was really uneasy. And he went to bed and then got up really early in the morning, about one or 02:00 in the morning. And I remember seeing him sitting outside outside the hotel room on the African soil there.
Pastor David Chrzan:I didn't hear what he said, but later, I I remember talking with him and he just said, you know what? There are there are things out there that don't just affect millions of people. They affect billions of people. And so what are those things? And God, you have the antidote.
Pastor David Chrzan:There's a way to help. And so that's when this idea of what became known as the Global Peace Plan. Yeah. P E A C E. Now PEACE Plan P became planted That's
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:a church.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. But in the in that on that night, that next morning, the P was plant a garden. So Rick sometimes has Polaroid vision, where the longer you look at a picture, the clearer and clearer it gets.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:And so being in proximity to that, you know, knowing that peace meant plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, educate the next generation, and knowing that the problem was so big that governments have not solved them, The International Mission Board of, you know, the Southern Baptist Convention, you know, and the number of missionaries we had on the ground, you know, wasn't making an impact on that. And so what what could? And that's where the idea of the church. The church is a billion Christians around the world, and how could we mobilize a billion Christians to take on some of these things? Amen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I love it.
Pastor David Chrzan:And so so it it birthed in that moment. And and then and then I think it was a seed planted in that moment, and God just continued to water it and water it and water it to then, you know, almost so that was 02/2003. In 2014 Mhmm. I I began overseeing all that effort. So eleven years later, as it continued to grow, it continued to grow in me and came to the place where now I'm I was the guy getting the peace plan in Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:70 some other countries.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I know Saddleback Church changed the lives of millions and millions of people around the globe and you were instrumental in that. But you made a huge move last year. Huge move. It's it's it's not something I ever imagined you would do or thought you I'm glad that you did it, but I just never imagined, but you made the move to join our executive team. So Sandals Church Structure, we're a senior pastor led church.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I have a board that oversees me financially to make sure that all your tithe dollars are going where they should go, and that's just accountability. But we're led by pastors, and so I have an executive team of ministers, and you're on that team. Yeah. And so you went from chief of staff Saddleback Church to the Sandals Church executive team, and you pastor our largest campus at Sandals. Mean, because it's not like he just has one role here, because we are on the cheap it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sandals Church. Welcome to the IE, buddy. You get two jobs. But you lead Hunter Park Campus. What did that look like for you and your family to take such a huge move?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because you moved from South Orange County to right here actually in Grand Terrace. I mean, you're right across the street from our High Park campus. Yeah. And I haven't seen your backyard yet, but I'm looking forward
Pastor David Chrzan:to it. Well, good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Good. What led you to do that and and how has that affected your family?
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. What led us to do it was two things. My I've really focused my life on being God's servant. And when you're when when you when you posture yourself and position yourself as God's servant, you're always a a man under authority.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm.
Pastor David Chrzan:Meaning, somebody else is telling you to do something and and and you go do it. Yeah. There's not really there there might be a debate. There might be a conversation, but ultimately, I'm here to serve what God wants. And at the same point in time, in in in conjunction with that, I'm a Philippians two is one of my favorite passages of scripture.
Pastor David Chrzan:And this is where it talks about that Jesus being in the very nature of equality with God, that he he was there. He had he he was he was he was in it. He's in the thick of the trinity. And yet, he'd laid all that down. Mhmm.
Pastor David Chrzan:To do what? To do what what what God needed him to do, which was go to the cross, which was come and be human and live a sinless life, a holy life, and then ultimately be the price paid for our sin. And so that out of that, what has always been close to Jenny and I is is this idea of just because you have privilege, doesn't mean you take privilege. And it's the privilege to serve. And so we looked at this to say, God, here here's who we are.
Pastor David Chrzan:Here is what we have. You take us to where we should go. And it was around that time that I had been having conversations with, you know, pastor Dan. And and and he asked the question, hey, would you ever be ready to would you ever be willing to come this way? Mhmm.
Pastor David Chrzan:And I knew about you. I knew about Sandals. I knew about our our history here. I knew about you. I knew about what we were doing, and I knew God was blessing.
Pastor David Chrzan:I if there was anything that I wanted to do, I wanted to go where God was blessing. I did not wanna go where I was gonna waste my life. And I know that may sound a little bit of a contradiction like, hey. I yeah. I've got some stipulations on where I wanted to go.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. I did. I did. It wasn't like, hey, God. Send me just to anywhere.
Pastor David Chrzan:I mean, I I wanted to go where I could where I could make a difference, where I where where where, you know, my years in ministry were gonna have an impact. And, you know, you guys you guys said, hey, we'd we'd love to have you here. And Jenny and I thought about it. And we we knew prior to the conversations that we were not gonna be staying in Orange County. That there was no no church in Orange County that that could sway us to go there.
Pastor David Chrzan:And for being part of Saddleback for so long, I didn't think it was right to go to another church in Orange County. Yeah. Because I you know, there's people that knew me and followed me and so forth, but none of them followed me here. Yeah. And I think that's important when you when you're looking at Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:Pastoral roles. And so that became, you know, that became our choice and this became our home.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Amen.
Pastor David Chrzan:And we we love it. It's it's it's challenging. Yes. It's different. Every day, it's very different for us.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. But but we love The people here are Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Rick, problem. Yell at you and cuss you out like I do. Yeah. I don't do that. Sometimes I want to.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:David Sharzin. Yeah. Alright. So what does ministry look like at Hunter Park now today? How long you been here?
Pastor David Chrzan:Well, let's see. In in like, tomorrow will be my official one year here Congratulations. At Sandals.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'm glad
Pastor David Chrzan:you I made it. Yeah. I made the first year. Yeah. It'll be tomorrow that they let me go.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:No. No. No. No.
Pastor David Chrzan:Hey, No. David. Oh, it'll be that that that same thing revisited. Matt will reach over the desk while he's closing the door behind him.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So what's going on at Hunter Park do
Pastor David Chrzan:you think? Yeah. You know, since I've been here, one of the things that has really touched me about Hunter Park is there you can sense that there's a groundswell of God doing something. You know, it's like if if you go out and you build a house, one of the most important things about that house is tapping into water, right? And tapping into a well.
Pastor David Chrzan:And a lot of times, the well water is underneath. And you gotta drill down to get it. And once you tap into that, now life can go about and actually flourish there. And I think what I've seen from our Hunter Park family here is there's something right underneath the surface. And I say that because when I first got here, one of the first things that I got to do was meet everybody.
Pastor David Chrzan:And I think we got great people here at Hunter Park, not just the staff, but really our people are really great people. But then shortly after that, we did this little thing called Bags by the Bumpers. Yeah. And then you went into Generous Like Jesus. And then later on, we did we did a caroling at Christmas.
Pastor David Chrzan:And then we did some Easter. We we tried some Easter stuff. And then most recently, we did this this thing about with backpacks, back to school backpacks. And the reason why I say there's something under the surface is because when I talked with the staff and leadership, they didn't really know what was the capacity of our people. Right.
Pastor David Chrzan:And when they thought about bags by the bumpers, that was, you know, getting bags of food to give to people who don't have it. Us as leaders sat around, and the biggest number they could throw out was like 250 bags.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And
Pastor David Chrzan:the people, our people responded with like 750.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wow. Three times.
Pastor David Chrzan:Three times what leadership had expected. We did a thing where we did Christmas caroling and like four to 500 people came out Christmas caroling with this.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I love it.
Pastor David Chrzan:They didn't expect that. Anytime anytime God does something or we tap into something where it where it kinda shocks or takes leadership by surprise Mhmm. To me, that's a great thing. Because that means we need to grow as leaders to be a little more in touch with the capacity of our people, but it means God's doing something. Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:And our he's doing something in our people that we just haven't tapped into. This most recent one with the with the backpacks. I heard of another church, you know, in Orange County that didn't even didn't provide as many backpacks as we did. And they're a church that's larger than us, you know? And again, our people surprised us because I think our goal was a thousand backpacks and we got like 1,200.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Pastor David Chrzan:You know? And so when when when God's moving into our in our people where we're surprised, there's something there. Yeah. I And love so it's exciting me about the days ahead because I think we have people that are ready for what God wants to do. So, you know, in terms of what it looks like here, Hunter Park is is right now out of the five services that we have, two on Saturday, three on Sunday, two of our biggest engines of, you know, growth here at Hunter Park is our our our Sunday 10:00 and 11:45 services.
Pastor David Chrzan:And this weekend, parking's packed.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I know.
Pastor David Chrzan:Parking's packed. The, you know, the in the auditorium is getting packed. And the one thing that I like about that is it means, you know, when God's looking for the warmest incubator to bring the newest believers Mhmm. He looks down for churches like sandals. Amen.
Pastor David Chrzan:And he says, I'm gonna bless sandals. I'm gonna bless their socks off with new people and God keeps bringing them. It's now up to us to respond.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Amen.
Pastor David Chrzan:It's now up to us to respond. And you know what? The thing that I've I've learned is it takes unselfish people to grow a church. And I think here at Sandals Hunter Park, I think we have some of the most unselfish people around because they're willing to give up their parking spot. They're willing to give up their seat.
Pastor David Chrzan:They're willing to give up their resources. They're willing to give up their time. They're willing to share those things with other people so that God's gospel, the mission of Jesus can continue to be expanded here in Riverside. I love it. So that's what I'm excited about.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So for those listening, we have people that listen that don't go to Sandals. So we have 14 locations that we meet at live. We have online everywhere. And I'm sure many of our audience that maybe attends another church or you don't attend a local campus, so you listen to debrief, watch the debrief, you watch online. Hunter Park is our largest campus.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's the first one that we had, so it's our original. It's the old school campus. It's the biggest. So how can people get involved if they want to make Hunter Park their home? What were how do they plug in?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:How would they do that since you're the and a lot of people think I'm the campus pastor of Hunter Park, it's actually you. And all of our campuses have a local pastor that's running the congregation. I'm the visionary leader teacher. But you guys are the pastors. Loving on the people, leading the people, meeting the people.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it's so important. This podcast is not a pastor, and messages are not a pastor. You're a pastor, and everybody needs a pastor. Yeah. We all need to be pastored, and that includes me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So how could they connect at Hunter Park if they wanted to connect with you and get involved?
Pastor David Chrzan:So if you're wanting to be part of Hunter Park, one, I would say just start coming. Yeah. One, you know, take a risk. You know, take a risk and start coming. And then and then while you're coming, choose to say choose to say, I'm gonna stay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm.
Pastor David Chrzan:I'm gonna be a part of what's going on there. And if you want to be a part of what's going on there, hey, in the lobby of the church, in the lobby of Hunter Park, we've got people there every weekend who are willing to Mhmm. That will meet with you personally and take your name and plug you into a lot of the things that we're doing here. Everything from some of our weekend service activities or weekend service ministries, parking, children's, guest services, to some of our worship teams, some of our our behind the scenes audio video tech stuff, and some of the things that we're getting ready or we're getting excited for. Because I think there's a lot of people that would say, I can help in this area.
Pastor David Chrzan:How could you use me? And I think we're looking at a time where I would like to see Hunter Park be known for the way we love our community and the way that we run toward pain, right? One of the earliest things I did here at Sandals was look at what's right around us. And one of the things I found out is that within a six mile radius of Hunter Park, we have the highest concentration of single parent families Wow. Not in just of California, in like all of The United States.
Pastor David Chrzan:And as you know, single parent families, man, if you're a single parent family, I mean, you're a hero in my book because You you're doing double may not have asked to have been a single parent, maybe you found yourself in the role of being a single parent, but single parents need help. Yes. They can't do it by themselves. And I I think Hunter Park has and the people of Hunter Park have the capacity to help people like that, that we can we can be we can be your family. Sandals Church can be your family.
Pastor David Chrzan:And and so that that's that's another example of just how I think we as a church family can make a a big difference, you know, in this area. Amen. So if you wanna be involved, you can email me directly at d shan, c h r z a n, sandals church dot com.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:D sharzan.
Pastor David Chrzan:Yeah. D sharzan sandals church dot com and let me know that, and we'll get you plugged in. We'll get you we'll get you connected with some of the folks on the team.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah, just look for the guy who looks like he belongs on a Beach Boys album. That's David Sharzon. So if you don't know who the Beach Boys are, do yourself a favor. Download an
Pastor David Chrzan:album. Do yourself a favor.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So listen, David's gonna join me for the next episode. So we're gonna answer questions. That's what we typically do. But I thought it was really important for our audience to get to know you, get to know Hunter Park. And by the way, Hunter Park is growing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's our fastest growing campus of all of our campuses. So that's super exciting. Not only is it the largest, but it's growing the fastest. And so we wanna encourage people to get involved. Find out how you can volunteer.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Find out where you can attend. Find out if there's any way where you could attend a service other than 10AM. That would be great.
Pastor David Chrzan:That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because we're we're running out of room and and we don't have a lot of parking on our park, so we wanna make sure that all of our guests get a great spot. And be praying for David as he leads his team and Jenny as they lead our Hunter Park team. It's not easy today to manage employees, lead staff, and minister to people. So be praying for him and thank God for him. So David and I are gonna be taking your questions in the next episode.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Let me encourage you. Thank you for listening to this episode. You can always submit your own questions to the podcast anytime by going to move.sc/ask or go to the Sandals Church app. I can't emphasize that enough. Go to the app and send me a question.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So thank you so much for joining us, David. You're gonna join me for the next episode. See you guys next time. Love you. Love you.
Scott Schutte:Thanks for checking out this episode. If you'd like to support this podcast, you can donate at give.sc. This podcast is a way for pastor Matt Brown to answer your questions about topics like the Bible, God, relationships, and culture. Like pastor Matt often says on the show, a podcast is not a pastor. If you'd like prayer or need to speak with someone about a specific situation you were going through, you can email us at help@sandalschurch.com.
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