Ep 2 - March 27, 2024

Topics covered in this episode:

• BTC ETFs continue to set records, 50 days and counting
• Record levels of institutional $BTC long/short exposure, is a squeeze coming?
• SEC v Ripple case update, $2B?!
• Fidelity updated their $ETH ETF application
• SEC v Coinbase case update

Creators & Guests

Host

Andres Sandate

Husband, 3x Dad, Latinx, SpecFin, FinTech, Private Credit, ATLalts Pod Host, SEAFA Pres., Ball Coach, Kansas Jayhawk, Raised in Newton, KS, Reside in Smyrna, GA

Host

Robert Swarthout

GP focused on commercial use case cryptocurrencies. #XRPL dUNL validator operator, Founder/CEO at @tetoncryptocap, Co-founded @ShootProof, formerly @yahoo

What is Weekly Crypto Check-In?

Hosts Robert Swarthout and Andres Sandate cover the last week's worth of crypto news, providing insights and opinions on this quickly evolving space from a fund managers perspective.

Robert Swarthout: 00:10

Welcome to another episode of the weekly crypto check-in being recorded on March 27, 2024. I'm your host, Robert Swartout, and I'll be joined with my cohost, Andres Andate. How's it going, Andres?

Andres Sandate: 00:21

Good. Hey, Robert. Really beautiful day here in Atlanta. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 00:25

It's, we had a rainy day. Was it yesterday or the day before? But, you know, it's definitely certain if you like springtime around here. Things are yellow. So Absolutely.

Robert Swarthout: 00:33

Or pollen. For those that haven't experienced a, spring in the south, it's something different. Yeah. Everything turns, bright yellow, and it's, makes your nose itch. So awesome.

Robert Swarthout: 00:44

Well, maybe we'll just go ahead and jump in here. So we have our, topics for today. We're gonna kinda go over our Bitcoin ETFs, some Bitcoin exposure. That's kind of interesting. You kinda see what's gonna happen there.

Robert Swarthout: 00:58

A couple case updates and Fidelity updating their ETH application. So why don't we just go ahead and start off with the Bitcoin ETFs, continue to set record. It's pretty, you know, as someone that has never truly followed ETFs launching, I've been so fascinated by this. It's been something that, you know, admittedly has been setting records. I think it's surprising a lot of people, even those in the industry.

Robert Swarthout: 01:19

But it's a, it seems like every day there's a new record. So

Andres Sandate: 01:24

Yeah. We, yeah, we were talking about how is the all time record for consecutive days of, net positive inflows, Is it over a 150 days?

Robert Swarthout: 01:35

It's a 160 days set by JEPI. Not quite sure what that ETF is, but that was Yeah. Some time ago, I believe.

Andres Sandate: 01:42

So it's a third of the way there effectively. Mhmm. And, you know, I I think it's really I think I think one of the things about all these new records is, number 1, just how quickly, the the size of inflows has gotten over 10,000,000,000 in the case of, you know, BlackRocks. But, also, it does feel from people that I know we both have spoken to, financial advisers are starting to take notice and starting to consider allocations or even begin to put the the the, you know, the Bitcoin ETFs into portfolios.

Robert Swarthout: 02:24

Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, I think the the 50th day that they set, and that's from the get go. This has never happened out of the gate for any ETFs. You know, the you know, as I'm looking at a chart here of the current longest streaks. Obviously, the Fidelity and the Ishares are leading at 50.

Robert Swarthout: 02:41

But there's VGIT is currently on a 44 day streak, and then it quickly falls off to 8. Like, it's just, you know, trying to put it in perspective of how, I guess, special in a sense what what is happening here.

Andres Sandate: 02:53

Yeah. Do you, I wanna ask you before we move to, the second topic. With respect to these ETFs, as somebody who is doing you know, taking a different approach to investing in digital assets than just buying, the, the ETFs, What what are some of the early implications for you when you look at just the inflows?

Robert Swarthout: 03:22

You know, crypto is in many, you know, different viewpoints follows a very similar pattern or cycle within a bull market and bear market for that matter. And everyone's got these models. Right? And we've, I think, talked about this a couple weeks ago briefly, but, like, all the models are based upon how it went in the past. None of them had ETF inflows in them.

Robert Swarthout: 03:44

In, like, especially the magnitude that they're happening. You know, just trying to, I guess, take a grain of salt, you know, how is it affecting it or is it affecting the the models of the past? And, you know, I I think that it's certainly given Bitcoin a huge advantage over the rest of the market. Not that that's really compared in that way, but, you know, there's easy access to Bitcoin and there's not easy access to the rest of them for all intents and purposes. And just like as another ETF comes online, will it be the Ethereum one next or will it be something else for a different reason?

Robert Swarthout: 04:16

Like, will there be a rotation from the Bitcoin or part of a rotation from the Bitcoin one into that so you get some diversity potentially? You know, how does that affect those assets? Like, it's a un uncharted territory in many senses. So I I find it fascinating and, you know, my fund doesn't hold Bitcoin. So it doesn't truly affect me, but it definitely affects everything around me.

Andres Sandate: 04:37

Yeah. Well, the the other thing is just the with with the inflows, continuing to, be positive, on a on a daily basis. The other thing is you you wonder, are more investors adding to their exposure, or is this new dollars that, are coming in for the very first time? And we talked about last time just that a lot of Bitcoin holders have never been through a halving, which is gonna happen next month. And, also, we spoke this week.

Andres Sandate: 05:09

The volatility in crypto and particularly in Bitcoin is, significantly more than, say, in a large cap stock, with the exception of that, you know, have surprise announcements. But but that's another thing that's happened over the last week or 2.

Robert Swarthout: 05:25

Just Yeah. You know? Price action. My gut I have no I'm not seeing data that backs this up. What my gut tells me is it's continuing it's continuing to be new interest.

Robert Swarthout: 05:33

It's not people adding to position. Maybe it's certainly there's people like maybe stepping into the market. I get that. But I think at a at a greater view of the market of of the ETF volume, you know, you have the people rotating potentially out of the GBDC, potentially into a different in other ETFs. You have some inflows there, but also more so just people that are interested.

Robert Swarthout: 05:54

You know, I I saw today that, PNC is literally about turn it on for their, brokers to be able to sell it to their clients. And that's what means wealth meant. I mean, like Yeah. That's a big that's

Andres Sandate: 06:03

a big announcement. I mean, PNC is one of the 10 largest banks and has, you know, big, obviously, private bank, private wealth. So that's that's interesting.

Robert Swarthout: 06:13

Yep. So maybe we'll kinda move on to number 2 here. So, you know, on the similar topic, you know, there's obviously, you can be buying the Bitcoin ETF, and you're getting Bitcoin within that or you can go buy Spot Bitcoin on say Coinbase or something like that. You know, the amount of exposure that hedge funds in particular have to Bitcoin right now has never been at a greater distance between the longs and the shorts. The volume is through the roof, and it almost feels like something's gotta break.

Robert Swarthout: 06:44

Like, one of these sides has gotta give.

Andres Sandate: 06:46

Mhmm.

Robert Swarthout: 06:47

If you if you're looking at this chart that I have up here, it's it's almost mirrored. Like, it's just gone vertical for the longs and basically hit the floor for the shorts, away from each other, I guess, away from that x axis. So, you know, is a short squeeze coming or is you know, who's gonna win? You know, time will tell. That just the having plan to it, you know, anybody's guess is as good as anyone else's at this point.

Robert Swarthout: 07:11

But just another interesting thing that I had ran across yesterday.

Andres Sandate: 07:15

Yeah. You know, you you are, approaching and and actively investing in the digital asset space perhaps differently than a a lot of the folks that are just buying clearly just a single token through buying Bitcoin ETFs. When you go about, like, your research process, are you starting to see more, tools from a research standpoint and and more information for, like, the professional, crypto investor when you when you I know you didn't run a fund before, but I'm curious, like, what you're noticing.

Robert Swarthout: 07:52

Yeah. You know, I can't say that I've noticed tons. I've been on some calls recently with some prime brokers, and they're offering up their research pieces, which it it's a I I guess that's more of a traditional way of doing it. That's not how I go about my research. Mhmm.

Robert Swarthout: 08:06

I'm not I've never actually asked to see a report. I should actually just read one to see what what's in them, from the standpoint of, like, what others are finding interesting. Like, in some sense, I kinda don't wanna be biased either and, kind of be fed information rather have it find me or, seek it out personally. So

Andres Sandate: 08:25

Yeah. Well, speaking of seeking out personally, one one last point on the second topic about institutional, and and you mentioned PNC approving, the the the ETFs on their platform. I I think we were talking about this earlier. One of the larger crypto conferences that happens every year is put on by consensus. And this is the 1st year, at least, that I've noticed

Robert Swarthout: 08:47

Mhmm.

Andres Sandate: 08:49

Since I've been following the space that they're literally providing access to financial advisors and and RIAs or wealth managers, like, free to attend the conference. So they come to a day of content Mhmm. Presumably to learn more about the space and then have access to the whole conference. It's definitely a push by this industry to try to get in front of these, influencers and gatekeepers.

Robert Swarthout: 09:16

Yeah. You know, we were there last year. It would have not been a place that you would have thought you found a single one of those type, advisors there. So they're I don't know if they're keeping them in a separate room or they're getting gonna mix in the normal crowd, but it's a, it's cool to see the evolution because that's important, at the end of the day. And, you know, education for that crowd, you know, I know that there's something called DACFP.

Robert Swarthout: 09:37

It's it's basically directed at the financial professional trying to teach them about crypto. It's, you know, it helps to probably get you a mile wide and an inch deep, and then you can kind of explore areas that you think are more relevant to what you need to know.

Andres Sandate: 09:49

Yeah. Well, I know this third point is 1, Robert, that you've spent a fair amount of time, following what what's the latest on the, on the case with between SEC and Ripple?

Robert Swarthout: 10:00

Yeah. So the case largely wrapped up last summer, in July 13th. And at this point, we're in the the remedies portion, basically negotiating between the defendant and the and the plaintiff, What what penalties or or lack thereof should happen. The, you know, we we knew this was coming as an industry, but for the most part, the average ex our people are kinda doesn't care about this. But it but it is something of its interest.

Robert Swarthout: 10:29

So the SEC finally, filed their, their documents effectively, requesting $2,000,000,000, b that's like a b with a boy on the end. And this is unprecedented. Like, if you go back and you look at the financial crisis, there wasn't even a $1,000,000,000 worth of penalties across all of those different banks and, you know, people that got into quote, unquote trouble. Sure. To see that the SEC thinks that Ripple needs to pay $2,000,000,000 and granted this is negotiation.

Robert Swarthout: 10:59

So obviously they're gonna be like, we want everything. Right. Even though they lost the majority of the case already. Yeah. So the the the 2,000,000,000 breaks down to a request for roughly 900,000,000 in disbursement and then roughly 200,000,000 in prejudgment interest, on the disgorgement request and another 900,000,000 in penalties.

Robert Swarthout: 11:21

It it I it just blows my mind. Like, my hunch is is the SEC gets you've at least from the the penalties portion, they get less than a $100,000,000 because the vast majority of if you break down where Ripple sold XRP to institutional clients, if you break it down, the I think 80 something percent was done outside the US. It's not even in with the jurisdiction of the SEC. And then you couple that with, and Ripple said this publicly, that for disgorgement to actually be a thing, the s the SEC recently lost in this in in court. For disgorgement to be a thing, the, the the other party had to have lost money.

Robert Swarthout: 11:59

Well, none of the parties have lost money on the XRP that they bought from. Ripple. So, like, what are we talking about here? Like, does the scorchment go away? Then does the interest go away?

Robert Swarthout: 12:06

And are we left with just some kind of penalty? That's what I think happens, but it's nowhere close to $2,000,000,000. My guess is it's less than 250,000,000, probably closer to a 100,000,000. This kind of guessing there, but just it feels more of a gut, a gut that is correct in that sense. So

Andres Sandate: 12:25

Yeah. You're you're almost like an arbitrage, investor with this one. I know that's not the strategy, but, you know, trying to sort of you know, if you were, like, trying to predict the outcomes of of the court case and how it's gonna get settled, but, ultimately, you know, in most cases, there's a settlement. And this is sort of, like you said, the opening salvo. So that seems like they went for a big headline number.

Andres Sandate: 12:49

Yeah. They being the SEC.

Robert Swarthout: 12:50

Yeah. They being the SEC, and then Ripple has 30 days to do their reply. Brent Garlinghouse and, Stuart, Alvarado, the chief legal counsel of Ripple, have publicly said in Twitter, like, they look forward to, you know, having their their voice be heard in the front of the court, and they look for a fair judgment, all the things. You know, all the things they should be saying is what they're saying. But you know, at the end of the day, I think if the SEC wins on a lot of this stuff, it's it's in my opinion, not necessarily too I mean, it's certainly they want to beat Ripple because Ripple beat them in any other portion of the case.

Robert Swarthout: 13:22

But they want to scare a lot of other people within the industry to kinda like get in line and don't don't test this. Yeah. And and Ripple's taken the opposite text, like, oh, we're gonna test you and we're gonna beat you, has been their strategy. So

Andres Sandate: 13:34

Yeah. Before we move on to Fidelity and and the update to their, ETH application, I'm I'm curious. When when people hear the SEC is suing Ripple Mhmm. That's the company. Ripple, the company.

Andres Sandate: 13:51

But the token that Ripple, I guess, issues is is different. It's a token called XRP, and the whole case stemmed from whether or not that was a security or not. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 14:04

So I'll correct one small thing. They don't issue it, but they are the biggest, They're the biggest owner. The biggest owner and also the biggest proponent of trying to get its use case out there. Yeah. You know, it's what what Ripple does with XRP and doesn't do with XRP does affect the market.

Robert Swarthout: 14:26

The SEC would like to think that it's a 100% of the time. There's certainly other projects and companies outside of that that are trying to use XRP or you know use in some way. You know, it's been a long journey as an XRP holder, depend depending on when you bought in. But at the end of the day, I I it's one of the projects they're trying to solve a problem that is so entrenched. They're trying to replumb the financial system from a, banking payments slash cross border payments perspective.

Robert Swarthout: 14:53

I'm not quite sure they could have chosen anything more difficult to go after out of the gate instead of trying to have smaller cases. So, you know, hindsight is 2020. Would they have done something different? I don't know. But I, I look forward to the case being behind, at least Ripple.

Robert Swarthout: 15:07

Does that mean the SEC doesn't go after somebody else? You know? Who knows? I mean, they're kinda going after Ethereum a little bit right now. It's not really publicly a case yet, but they're certainly investigating, and that's that's unfortunate.

Robert Swarthout: 15:21

We just need congress to do their job and kinda clean this mess up.

Andres Sandate: 15:24

Yeah. Provide a little bit more clarity because uncertainty, in this market and the lack of regulation is certainly keeping a lot of institutions and a lot of investors sort of on the sidelines. Well, we we mentioned Ethereum. Let's talk about Fidelity. And and when when you put in here the news that Fidelity's updated their application, maybe we could step back and just talk about the process of registering, an ETF because it's a it's an ongoing dialogue with the SEC

Robert Swarthout: 15:55

effectively. So is the way that I understand it, there's multiple pieces or multiple entities that get involved. There's the the sponsor. There's the authorized participant, I think it's what it AT. Mhmm.

Robert Swarthout: 16:07

And then I think there's even 2 of the other pieces that I don't remember the, the correct description of. But at the end of the day, a group of people come together. They file an application. I believe it's an s one still. And the s one kinda lays out, this is what we're selling.

Robert Swarthout: 16:21

This is what we're doing. This is, you know, how we're gonna custody it if if it's a digital asset, and all those different pieces. Again, like I said upfront, I've never followed an ETF process before I followed this Bitcoin one, and it has been fascinating to kinda learn. It's not as simple as it seems on the surface, you know. No.

Robert Swarthout: 16:36

BlackRock says they have an ETF. BlackRock isn't really even holding the crypto. They have a custodian. They have someone else that's managing buying the crypto. Like, I don't know if it's the most efficient process, but it's definitely the process that we have in place now.

Andres Sandate: 16:48

That's right. Yeah. The these products these all these registered products, which, you know, ETFs and other exchange trade products, registered funds, mutual funds, etcetera, they all fall under a regime that the SEC has outlined, and so there's all these processes and steps which does provide, I guess, you could say, belt and suspenders for the retail investor, the individual investor, but it does, in the application process allow for the issuer sponsor to take comments from the SEC's lawyers, and then, in this case, modify the application. What was the the modification that they made this week? And speaking of Fidelity.

Robert Swarthout: 17:29

Yep. So I don't think I've mentioned it on this particular podcast before, but on another podcast that I record, you know, we've talked about how the Bitcoin was very the very the Bitcoin ETF is very cut and dry. You either own it, you don't. There's nothing else. There's no cash flow.

Robert Swarthout: 17:43

There's nothing else to go along with it. Ethereum is and anything that would come along that's gonna be ETF that is proof of stake, there's you can think of it as cash flow. I mean, there's the or like an interest type reward by holding. That's the, rewards of being part of the system and literally staking your claim. You know, so they they updated the application to talk around the proof of stake piece of that and kind of how how those rewards are gonna be, you know, dealt with.

Robert Swarthout: 18:11

You know, I think that this adds another dimension to it. Right? Like the Bitcoin one, everyone was fighting over fees, you know, like who can is basically erased to 0. The Ethereum one could be similar in the fee perspective, but also then you kind of have in this other this cash flow perspective where, you know, an ETF provider will be like, oh, we're gonna return 80%. And, you know, we're gonna turn 81%.

Robert Swarthout: 18:31

Like, they could kind of split it. And it's not always the same cash flow because the mark the the market or the the network can fluctuate some. So which I guess does complicate, maybe some of the disclosures that they would have to do. But it's a, I'm glad that this finally came out because when I was talking about an ETH Ethereum one coming soon, I'm like, what are they gonna do about this proof of stake? Like, this this matters almost more than anything else that the Bitcoin went out with because it's gonna have there's far more tokens that are like that.

Andres Sandate: 18:59

Yeah. I wanna ask you, with, you know, with respect to the yield, we saw this, movie before with crypto. Several years ago, there were a number of, I guess, you'd call them issuers and investors who were pursuing a yield farming strategy. And you saw a lot of retail investors in particular

Robert Swarthout: 19:23

The December of 2021.

Andres Sandate: 19:25

Right. 2021. Right? 3 years ago. I wanna say lured in because that's that sounds nefarious, but attracted to the space because of these really high yields, which it turns out were

Robert Swarthout: 19:39

Four digit, like, insane yields. Yes.

Andres Sandate: 19:41

Yeah. Could you just give a a maybe a quick review? Because I think there's a lot of folks in crypto today that were not in crypto 3 years ago.

Robert Swarthout: 19:51

Mhmm.

Andres Sandate: 19:52

They were not in these yield, farming strategies, and a lot of those sponsors or managers are not around anymore. They pivoted their strategies. But Yeah. What what happened at a high level from from your from your take, like, if you went back and looked and and saw the history?

Robert Swarthout: 20:11

People were blinded. Like, that's the easy answer. People are you know, it was definitely in casino just like cryptos today, but a different game that they were playing then. The a lot of times you were taking and you're putting maybe 1 or 2 different tokens into a pool, and then you're you were getting a return on that, because that was getting lent out the other side. The the return to the yields were so high, you know, 2 digits certainly, 3 digit percent returns, some even crazy, like 4 digit like, 1,000 percent return type situation.

Robert Swarthout: 20:41

Like, anybody with a straight mind would have been, like, this makes no sense. Don't get in it. And people were, and what happened is is a lot of people got left out holding the bag because all of a sudden those yields came down very quickly, and crashed, and you got left holding less assets than you put into the pool because, guess what, there there was in some sense, were used to pay the rewards. I'm glad that that's behind us, that there was I didn't get involved in it. I kinda sat and watched it.

Robert Swarthout: 21:09

I'm like, do I am I the idiot for not playing this game? Like, it it was that tempting. But at the end of the day, you know, if something's too good to be true, it likely is.

Andres Sandate: 21:19

Likely is. Okay. Let's talk about the SEC and the Coinbase case.

Robert Swarthout: 21:25

Yep. So this case was, filed, I think, last fall late late summer, early fall. The SEC is suing Coinbase for not being a broker dealer like they the s c SEC thinks they should be and, you know, all the things the SEC's got their hammer and their securities hammer and they're swinging it around. There was different parts of this. Early on in the first briefing, it seemed like, man, Coinbase is really ahead of the curve.

Robert Swarthout: 21:50

They they kinda took a book out of Ripple's playbook when they were fighting them. The industry is slowly learning how to fight the industry. That's me. The industry is slowly learning how to fight the SEC. The regulators.

Robert Swarthout: 22:00

And the Coinbase part is interesting because there was, I think, 5 or 6 different accounts that they were, like, fighting over. One of them was the idea that, the Coinbase has what they call a Coinbase Wallet. It's an iPhone, Android app, allows you to interact with Ethereum and a couple other blockchains. And at the end of the day, it's just some software. It's not like there's admittedly, there's no broker dealer there.

Robert Swarthout: 22:22

The SEC was trying to claim that that that wallet app was a broker because it was facilitating the buying and selling of crypto outside of the normal centralized exchange that everyone knows as Coinbase. Well, the judge threw that part that that count out, which was great news because there's in no in no universe should software be considered a broker. He allowed, I think, the other 5 counts to kinda proceed. So the the the bar was really low because Coinbase had filed for this all to be dismissed. That's what this was over.

Robert Swarthout: 22:51

The bar was really low for the coin, for the SEC to win the motion to kinda continue this case, on most accounts, and they won, you know, majority of probably what they care about. They would have loved that software piece to be in it. That would have really changed the industry and would have been pretty scary. But it had the judge left it in now, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're guilty or anything's wrong with it. It just would it needs to kind of, you know, move and kinda do its normal course to the to the court the to to the core system.

Robert Swarthout: 23:19

So

Andres Sandate: 23:20

Yeah. The core system. Yeah. As you think about, what Coinbase position in the industry was prior to, you know, FTX, going away and blowing up. You know?

Andres Sandate: 23:34

And and a lot of the, you know, Binance. How do you look at them in the industry today relative to some of the other major firms that maybe aren't in crypto today from a from from you know, if you look at firms, they they are doing crypto projects. They're doing things in the background. Like, firms like BlackRock clearly have products now. But Right.

Andres Sandate: 23:59

How does Coinbase stack up as an organization, in terms of its importance Mhmm. To the industry?

Robert Swarthout: 24:07

I mean, it following the Binance piece getting cleaned up last fall, Coinbase is more important. Yeah. It took they've soaked up some of those volumes that were left, out of Binance. You know, if you rewind all the way back to December of 2020, on 23rd is when the the case against Ripple was filed, made public, you know, within I think 2 weeks early to mid January, like, Coinbase and all the other US exchanges outside of Uphold had come along and said, oh, we're delisting XRP. We don't wanna get we don't wanna get in trouble with the XRP.

Robert Swarthout: 24:43

It was to meet with the SEC. Fast forward to anything that happens these days, the industry is like now the SEC's got a reputation, right, that they're trying to shake people down effectively, and the industry stands up and, like, no. No. Thank you. We're we're gonna push back.

Robert Swarthout: 24:58

It's a totally different thing, and I think it's in a much healthier spot. It's a shame that's having to go through it, but, you know, it's I've seen Coinbase almost do a 180. They used to, like, bend over backwards because in when that case was originally filed against Ripple, they were likely working on the SEC, and almost kinda do whatever they wanted for that matter. You fast forward now, and now they're actually fighting over that same s one about doing stuff in it that they told them originally. Now the SEC is saying that they they shouldn't have been doing it.

Robert Swarthout: 25:30

So that's a whole another, conversation, but it's a, it's an industry that's learned to fight. You see people rallying. I mean, even see parts of crypto. There's a super pack that was put together for political donations. They had 3 or 4 companies come together.

Robert Swarthout: 25:45

Ripple was part of it. I think Coinbase was another one big one in there where they raised $75,000,000, to contribute and help, promote people that are running in different districts and for senate and house representatives that are

Andres Sandate: 25:58

Mhmm.

Robert Swarthout: 25:58

Crypto forward, to kind of or and in some cases, to help get out some of the negative crypto people in congress. Elizabeth Warren, you know, probably numero uno on that list. So

Andres Sandate: 26:10

Yeah. The, yeah, the industry certainly wants to get back to having constructive dialogue on Capitol Hill with respect to regulation. It feels like all these ETFs have taken up a lot of the, you know, the conversation, and there's other things. Now we're in an election year. I don't know if anything happens, but it felt like there was a big push when FTX charges were first announced.

Robert Swarthout: 26:36

Mhmm.

Andres Sandate: 26:36

And now it feels like, you know, there's there's there we're in this state where maybe there's a lot of things happening behind closed doors, but, you you know, retail investors are now able to you know, if they wanna buy Bitcoin ETFs, they can. I don't know that the SEC was super excited that those approvals happened, but it certainly happened quickly. And, it'll be interesting to see what, what the next year or 2 look like with respect to regulation.

Robert Swarthout: 27:04

Yeah. I'm just trying to review some quick notes here because I I have it. In the last week or 2, I read a small little piece. I'm not gonna find it here quick enough. About how, apparently, some progress has been made likely behind the scenes or not as much out out in the open Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 27:20

About, some stable coin regulation. That's certainly likely to be the first thing that comes along. Does it get passed this year? I don't know. I I I can't imagine Congress does much of anything, meaningful, unfortunately.

Robert Swarthout: 27:32

So, you know, admittedly, like, this election, I think, is pivotable for a lot of different reasons depending on who you talk to outside of crypto. Yeah. But just from a crypto lens, it is super important that we get a different administration and a different SEC chair, and and hopefully, can then congress can somehow come together and pass some legislation.

Andres Sandate: 27:53

Mhmm. What are you looking for over the next week? I know we're not through the the end of this week, but I'm curious, like, over the next 5 to 7 trading days, like, what what are the things that, you're, like, catching your attention?

Robert Swarthout: 28:07

You know, for me, it's continued watching the Bitcoin ETFs is kinda, you know because more so as I am, it's almost like reality TV for me at this point. I I'm enjoying the, the the nature of the wowness of it. And, you know, just the idea of tokenization continues to pop up. Real world asset tokenization, more specifically, continues to pop up in conversations that I would never expected.

Andres Sandate: 28:31

Mhmm.

Robert Swarthout: 28:31

You're starting to see it. The OCC, which is the government excuse me. The organization that deals with banking stuff. Right. Office of

Andres Sandate: 28:41

the control of the currencies. Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 28:43

I I have I haven't watched it yet, but I've got a a link to a video that when they were talking about tokenization, I'm like, okay. I would have not guessed it popped up in that, but, like, it could have just been an anecdote somebody was talking about. So I've got some work to do, but discontinued that that tokenization to me is the next major trend that's gonna happen in crypto, at least major narrative, over the next year or 2. So

Andres Sandate: 29:05

Yeah. Interesting. Well, more more news to come, I I would imagine, on that front over the next several quarters, which we'll certainly, break down here on the, week weekly crypto check-in.

Robert Swarthout: 29:16

Yep. Awesome. Well, thanks for your time today.

Andres Sandate: 29:18

Yeah. It's good seeing you, and, we'll see everybody next week. Take care. Take care.