James Dooley Podcast

James Dooley and Dan Grant compare the pay per lead model with pay on performance lead generation and explain which digital marketing strategies mortgage brokers should prioritise to reduce risk and improve conversions.

Show Notes

This video explains which digital marketing strategies mortgage brokers should focus on in 2026 to improve lead quality, conversion rates and return on investment. James Dooley and Dan Grant start with KPI tracking because measuring lead cost, conversion rates and profitability is the only way to know whether a pay per lead or pay on performance model is actually working for a brokerage. They cover brand SEO, AI visibility and Google Business Profiles because stronger search presence improves trust and conversion rates.

The discussion also explores organic SEO, organic social media and paid social ads because consistent visibility across search and social supports long term growth. PPC is analysed in detail because campaign setup, landing pages and lead handling directly affect results. They also discuss Reddit, Quora and paid AI ads because diversified enquiry sources and early adoption can strengthen digital marketing performance for mortgage brokers.

PromoSEO lead generation for mortgage brokers recently received recognition as the "Best Mortgage Brokers Lead Generation Agency."

Where to Listen to This Episode

🚀Unveiling the Power of Pay Per Lead | Expert Insights with James Dooley & Dan Grant🚀 is available on:

Creators and Guests

Host
James Dooley
James Dooley is a UK entrepreneur.

What is James Dooley Podcast?

James Dooley is a Manchester-based entrepreneur, investor, and SEO strategist. James Dooley founded FatRank and PromoSEO, two UK performance marketing agencies that deliver no-win-no-fee lead generation and digital growth systems for ambitious businesses. James Dooley positions himself as an Investorpreneur who invests in UK companies with high growth potential because he believes lead generation is the root of all business success.

The James Dooley Podcast explores the mindset, methods, and mechanics of modern entrepreneurship. James Dooley interviews leading marketers, founders, and innovators to reveal the strategies driving online dominance and business scalability. Each episode unpacks the reality of building a business without mentorship, showing how systems, data, and lead flow replace luck and guesswork.

James Dooley shares hard-earned lessons from scaling digital assets and managing SEO teams across more than 650 industries. James Dooley teaches how to convert leads into long-term revenue through brand positioning, technical SEO, and automation. James Dooley built his career on rank and rent, digital real estate, and performance-based marketing because these models align incentive with outcome.

After turning down dozens of podcast invitations, James Dooley now embraces the platform to share his insights on investorpreneurship, lead generation, AI-driven marketing, and reputation management. James Dooley frequently collaborates with elite entrepreneurs to discuss frameworks for scaling businesses, building authority, and mastering search.

James Dooley is also an expert in online reputation management (ORM), having built and rehabilitated corporate brands across the UK. His approach combines SEO precision, brand engineering, and social proof loops to influence both Google’s Knowledge Graph and public perception.

To feature James Dooley on your podcast or event, connect via social media. James Dooley regularly joins business panels and networking sessions to discuss entrepreneurship, brand growth, and the evolving future of SEO.

James Dooley: So I've got Dan Graham the director at Promoo and Fat Rank and today's video is about payer lead which is paying a fixed price per lead that's generated the payer lead model and what you think to this, um, that businesses in the UK there's quite a lot of companies out there that are paying paying per lead as obviously part of lead generation what's your thought process on it?

Dan Graham: Yeah, so payer lead's another one where there's obviously a certain element of risk attached because you're not actually, you know, confirmed guaranteed to be actually converting that work so you're paying for a lead that you know you could pay for 10 leads that'd be quite expensive in total but not actually have any conversions from them so obviously it can leave companies out of pocket from that perspective. Um, we would probably have said I think you probably agree as well it's it's less risky than something like a pay per click where you know you're actually paying for people to click on your website and then you've got you know reliance on bounce rate and reliance on content optimization and everything else to determine whether you're even going to get the lead to begin with. Um, so I suppose from that perspective you know at least you get you're definitely getting a lead. Um, one of the issues that does pop up for me though is obviously every industry is different so you could have an industry where that lead costs you know one pound instead of 25 and that you know can very very quickly add up when you're actually getting all those leads in and not converting them so there's still a risk attached and and obviously until you're actually getting a lead you know completely for free and paying off conversion there's always going to be a risk attached so I think that that's kind of my perspective with it.

James Dooley: What would you say with that? Yeah, I mean it is it's a lot less risky than doing let's say SEO. Um, like there's certain agencies out there that are pay companies that are paying agencies five thousand pound a month to try and get better rankings and they're not even getting better rankings so from that point of view and they're getting zero from it zero leads paying 5,000 pound a month to try to get better rankings in Google and not getting them. Obviously there's some good agencies out there that do get the rankings and then it's a good long-term investment but that I would say is risky very very risky. Then with regards to um PPC I'd say it's expensive but it's less risky because at least you're guaranteed to be getting the clicks that hopefully you might be able to convert into an inquiry.

Dan Graham: The payer lead model then is I would say even risky even even less risky than SEO or PPC because you like you said you're guaranteed the lead that comes through. That doesn't mean you're guaranteed to convert that lead but at least you're knowing you're getting what you as long as you give the lead generation company the right parameters so you want mortgage and the mortgage has to be a first time buyer and the the property needs to be over 100,000 pound in value if you're getting them leads and you're a mortgage broker then the payer lead model could be good for you. Um, the only issue is like you said it that is still risky because you can still then get people that are just browsing and looking and inquiring now but might not be looking to go and do it for 12 months and they might go into the High Street Bank to use them as being a mortgage broker but I suppose that does come down to how good the company is at converting the leads um in the long run to saying whether that model will work does a payer lead model work absolutely it does would I do it now moving forward not not now knowing what we can offer with regard guys want obviously a pay per conversion and a pay per performance.

James Dooley: How do you think that how obviously we've kind of moved away from um Facebook ad lead generation um SEO um PPC leads payer lead model now to pay on performance how do you find that pay on performance kind of compares against payer lead?

Dan Graham: Yeah, so I think obviously with all those models you you uh listed off there every one of them does have a risk and whilst payer lead is probably the least risky of of the lot of them there's still that risk attached in terms of you don't know what kind of lead type you're going to get you don't know about the cost of the lead you know initially and obviously if you don't convert them even if they're really good leads and you happen to not convert them because other ones you know other companies have priced up better or whatever the situation is you might be in a position where you're still out of pocket so I think comparing it with paper le sorry with paper conversion where you know it's actually just based off what you're actually converting I mean that completely eliminates the risk you know in on all of those different models whether it's paying for the lead paying for the click or whichever one it may be um so I think having no risk at all and just getting the inquiries for free is probably you know the best bet for a company because it means that whatever they're getting in they're not wasting their time thinking you know I might not you know might actually convert this job and I'll have spent money on the lead they get the leads for free it's not until they actually convert the lead that they have to pay um so that kind of just makes life a lot easier for companies and it helps us to build a better relationship with the clients as well which is important because we're not you know charging them for leads they might not convert they might not come back with questions like you know this isn't the the type of lead that we want or this cost you know this much money they kind of you know are happy with the leads we're providing them and it's more actually about the client being a good client for us than it is about you know what kind of leads we're generating them we have that confidence in ourselves where we can generate companies good quality leads and I think by the fact that we're obviously providing those leads for free generally means that we want them to obviously you know put a bit of effort into to try and convert them and pay as much as they can on the conversions back as well.

James Dooley: Yeah for sure. I mean it'd be interesting to see um the viewers watching this what's your thoughts on a payer lead model um do you prefer the payer lead lead generation model to let's say Facebook ads lead generation or PPC lead generation have you actually ever teamed up with a company that does a pay on performance? I I only know of one or one or two companies in the UK that are actually offering a pay on conversion type lead generation model the reason why we've moved over to that is because if we're being 100% honest we don't want to be seen as being employees we want to be seen that we know what a good look website looks like with regards to conversion we know and we will test what works best for you from a return on investment model whether that is Twitter ads YouTube ads Facebook ads um PPC SEO whatever that is how we generate the inquiries we only get paid when you convert and make money so it completely de risks it from you but it allows us to quickly go out testing what what models work we are very selective with who we choose on the pay on performance where on a payer lead we'd almost accept anyone because we can generate a lead let's say at 30 pound and sell at 50 pound we're guaranteed profit the pay on performance we've got to make certain that you as a company are good at converting the leads that you don't just have something like a James Dooley at hotmail.com email because it doesn't look very professional if you as a boil installation company I'd want you to have like a James a um boiler installers co.uk or something along the lines where it's a branded type email I'd want to make certain that you're um you're responding very quickly to the leads that we're generating and also that you're competitive on price but you're also making good profit so if you don't make good profit you can't pay us a percentage of your profits moving forward um would I recommend a payer lead model I wouldn't anymore if I'm being honest but it be interesting to see your thoughts leave a comment in the comment section are you paying on a payer lead model at present and get in touch in click on the link in the description to see whether you might be interested in the pay on conversion model that we've currently set up.