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Two ex-Mormon women in their 20's. Both queer. Both divorced. Both ready to share the ins-and-outs of Mormonism and what it's like to leave.
Karina Vance (00:01)
Hello, brothers and sisters and other siblings. It's me, Karina.
Sammi (00:06)
And I'm Sammi, welcome.
Karina Vance (00:08)
And this is the Peculiar People podcast, an Ex-Mormon podcast. And this is going to be our second episode. And you can now find us on Instagram, TikTok, and Reddit. And it's all under the name Peculiar People Exmo. So you can follow us there and get updates on episodes.
Sammi (00:29)
Yeah, we are also on Patreon now because we use swear words and talk about some, like, harder topics. You have to type in the whole URL and it's patreon .com slash peculiarpeoplexmo. So the handle on everything is the same, which makes it easier.
Karina Vance (00:54)
Today we're going to be talking about exit stories. last week we did mine and then this week we'll be doing Sammi's and she's just going to kind of dive into why she left and how she got to where she is today. And I'm really excited to hear about it.
Sammi (01:10)
Thank you. I'm honestly so nervous, but we got this. So I guess I'll start with like my childhood. like I mentioned in the last episode, I grew up in an extremely orthodox household. My dad grew up Mormon and it was just all very letter of the law for him growing up. And my mom was a convert in her twenties.
She grew up non -religious, but she like definitely dove right into it with my dad. And so religion was everything that we ate, breathed and slept basically. And I really went along with it. I was a very Mormon. If you're not familiar with Mormon terms,
They call people who are just like super duper Mormon, if they're female, a Molly Mormon. And I was definitely that.
Karina Vance (02:18)
I don't know what the male version was. Peter priesthood. Thank you.
Sammi (02:21)
Peter Priestel. Yeah, you're welcome. So just to give you kind of an idea of how Mormon I was, was, my gosh, so embarrassing. I was the annoying person on social media who would like repost every religious post I ever came across and...
it's literally the most embarrassing thing, like when I have memory pop up on my Facebook, because it's like, just like you keep scrolling and keep scrolling and keep scrolling. it's just like quotes from the church barf.
Karina Vance (03:00)
Yeah, I've deleted them whenever they come back
Sammi (03:05)
Yeah, no, I've definitely started doing that for sure. I was doing it every day for a while and I've just like kind of stopped, but I'll probably keep doing it eventually. I can't wait for the day that I open my memories and there's like literally zero left. That will be the day. Yeah. Yeah, so along with that, I was the kind of person who would like give people at school
Book of Mormons, I went out with the sister missionaries to teach people when I was a teenager. And I had my high school boyfriend and some of my friends taking the missionary lessons. I was just fully in, deep into the church. And yeah, so about when I was
I want to say 15 or 16, I got my patriarchal blessing. If you're not familiar with a patriarchal blessing, that's basically what the church teaches is that you get this very specific to you blessing from God given by someone who's a patriarch, which is like, it's just a special assignment in church basically.
and they speak for God is what the church teaches. Anyway, it's basically supposed to be like a roadmap for your life. They tell you what is going to happen in your future if you remain a worthy member of the church and what blessings you'll receive if you're just doing everything
And they tell you generally to come into having this blessing given to you. It happens one time in your life normally. That you should be praying and asking questions. Like come with a question and you'll get your answer from God through this blessing. And so one thing that had been heavy on my mind was whether or not I needed to serve a mission for the church. That is
For women, it's 18 months, for men it's two years. And you go when you're 18 if you're a man, 19 if you're a woman. And I didn't fully know if I wanted to give up that time in my life because I was basically in the mindset of like, hey, God, if you don't tell me I need to go on a mission, I'm just gonna get married as soon as possible. So.
The Mormon brainwashing, it's at its finest. Right? And so I go and get my patriarchal blessing and sure enough, very clearly it says that I'm to serve a mission. So I make that my mission to serve a mission. So graduate from high school and I head off to BYU, Brigham Young University.
Karina Vance (05:55)
of
Sammi (06:22)
in Provo, Utah. And I put in my mission papers pretty soon after I get to BYU. And I ended up getting called to serve in the Canada -Toronto mission as a Spanish -speaking missionary. And I was to leave in February of 2017. So in January,
2017 I Went to the temple to get my initiatory and endowment done. As Karina mentioned in her episode last week It is high -key a cult like you oh man you go into the temple having zero ideas what you're about to walk into and
There's all sorts of like rituals and ceremony things that happen that are beyond wild. We will have a whole episode on this, I'm sure, eventually. Or more than.
Karina Vance (07:31)
can also talk about how they have changed over time because when my family first went to the temple versus when I first went it's very different and honestly the one in the past is crazy. Yeah.
Sammi (07:35)
of yes.
Much worse, much worse. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, so a few things just to touch on with the temple ceremony. It's one, when you go to get your endowment out, you start wearing special underwear. The church calls them garments, but it's basically like a t -shirt and shorts that go down to your knees that you wear underneath your clothes.
And they're supposed to give you like protection, both spiritual and physical. So magic underwear, basically.
Karina Vance (08:27)
Were they super uncomfortable for you because I... I had so many problems just wearing them.
Sammi (08:35)
Yes, super uncomfortable. When I first got on my mission, so I'd been wearing garments for about a month, I started having like rashes under my boobs and they were like, hi, I wonder why? Are you, are we serious?
Karina Vance (08:49)
Yeah, my thighs would always get like hives on.
Sammi (08:52)
Yeah, yikes. They're so uncomfortable. like, why do we want to be wearing an extra layer of literal clothing? Like it covers your whole body basically. Especially if you live in a hot climate. So anywho, you have to wear it all the time. So that was one thing that was very strange to start doing. But then in the initiatory,
Karina Vance (08:56)
in the room.
So hot.
Sammi (09:21)
You're like taught your whole life as a Mormon that only men can have the priesthood, which is the power to act in the name of God. You can do different things like give people blessings and stuff like that, be a mouthpiece for God. It's what they believe. And you go into the initiatory and there's women doing all these things that you've been taught your whole entire life that only men can do. And I was like, what?
is happening. this breaks all the rules. What in the world? And so that really kind of shook me, but then the endowment itself. You learn secret handshakes that are required to get into heaven, say some really weird shit, and...
There's this weird prayer circle. We'll get into this later. It's just a lot. It is a lot and very culty and you are promising to things that you've literally never heard of before. You have no idea going in what you're about to like sign on to and they give you one opportunity at the beginning to leave if you don't want to be there and then you're basically locked in. Creepy.
Karina Vance (10:36)
But also you're like super peer pressured because you're in a room full of people. And usually there's only one person there that's new. And so if you get uncomfortable, you have to leave in front of everyone, which is usually your family and friends and people that are there to support you. Because I remember being uncomfortable and being like, well, I'm not going to get up. Everyone came here for this. I'm not just going to walk out. They're all going to watch me leave.
Sammi (10:47)
Yup.
Ya no.
Right, and then you're just gonna get like so much backlash from it. It's yeah, you're basically just cornered. I remember while I was, I might have mentioned this last week, but while I was in the, in the endowment room, I was like, everybody thinks this is normal, right? Like, okay, this is weird, but everybody else is doing it. I also remember,
When you're in the temple, going through this part of the ceremony and anything past this part of the ceremony, like, you wear some... bat shit crazy clothes.
Karina Vance (11:52)
Yes.
Sammi (11:55)
and I remember before I had gone into the endowment room, I like went, came out of this room where they had talked to me about the garment and there was these people walking down the hallway towards me in the temple clothing and I was like, excuse me? Am I about to wear that? Like what is going on? yeah, real wild.
So that shook me to the core. I remember being in the celestial room, which is where you have a fancy, dancey room that you go to after the ceremony, with my parents and just being like, what just happened? And I don't know what to think about this, but trying to feel the spirit, because that's what you're supposed to do in the temple. And then we got home and I was
I don't know if I can stay in this. this just, what in the actual hell just happened? I don't know if I believe this. Like, what is going on? I reached out to my best friend and like, was like, I might leave the church. I don't know. I don't know what to do. Like, I'm supposed to leave on my mission in a couple of weeks. What do I do? And I brought it up to my mom as well and she just kind of did the thing.
that Mormons do where they try to like talk you down and make everything okay. And a very common thing in the Mormon church is to remind you that even though we don't know everything now that God will make it known to us eventually, even if that is not until the next life when we're in heaven, which is just super, super great advice. and so yeah.
I just kind of had an existential crisis and buckled down and decided that I was going to go on my mission. And I think that that was in part, like you're told your whole life that going on a mission is this huge, exciting thing that you can do. So I think I was partly excited, but I think I was also highly peer pressured and I knew that I would let down so many people if I backed out at the last minute. so yeah, went on my mission.
And I just went all for it. I was going to be the best missionary. I was going to figure out all the temple stuff. I went to the temple a few times during the six weeks that I was in the missionary training center and just tried to like gain understanding and find a way to make it beautiful in my brain.
And then I went, think, two times on my mission. And I eventually got to a point where I was like, you know, this actually is kind of beautiful. What in the hell? But what was
Karina Vance (15:01)
It's to get used to. So it's easy to get used to keep telling yourself you like
Sammi (15:09)
Yeah, exactly. Acquired taste. Yikes. Yeah, so my mission was, it was the mission. We can talk about that later. Missions are crazy. You basically work 16 hour days for the church for free, and not only are you working for free, but you're paying for it out of your own pocket, generally. And it really affected my mental health,
I didn't really feel like I could leave because they make it really hard for you to leave. You have to have pretty insane circumstances to be able to go home. And so I just like kept on going and trying to pray away my mental health issues and I got through it somehow.
And then I got home from my mission in August of 2018. And I remember like as I was nearing the end of my mission, they really shift gears when you're a missionary from like, don't be thinking anything about the opposite gender. You've got to have your heart locked and sealed because you're the Lord's missionary right now. To all of sudden in like your last transfer, which is the last six weeks of your mission,
You're about to go home and get married. Start popping out babies. And, it's, it's insane the pressure that you feel, but they also talk to you about how, you really have to be diligent about keeping up with praying and studying the scriptures and church attendance. Because when you get home from your mission, it's going to feel different. And you're going to go from, you know, doing this all day and all night to.
going back to your normal life and into society and I was like, yeah, yeah, sure. You know, it'd be fine. No, I got home and I went from like feeling like I was on a spiritual high to just like a nose dive. And it wasn't for lack of trying either. It was just the fact that it was literally my whole entire life that I was thinking about Jesus, preaching about Jesus.
Literally talking to every single person I saw on the street or on the bus or whatever about Jesus to trying to exist as a young adult in the real world. And so that like really hit me hard. It hit me hard to the fact or to the point that I like was researching like, you serve a second mission?
as a young girl. Like, what? Yeah, I was like, I look back at that, I'm like, wow, that's actually so crazy. And I remember like, I had gone back to BYU at this point, and I was like, maybe I should just try to get a job in the MTC so that I can be around the missionaries all the time, have them be teaching me as like a fake investigator or whatever.
Karina Vance (18:06)
She's ready to go back.
Sammi (18:33)
And that never ended up happening, but I was just like, was pulling at every last straw that I could find to try to get back to feeling the way that I felt on my mission. And, um, it just never really happened. And so fast forward to like summer of 2019, I went from BYU to Virginia to work as a nanny for this Mormon family that had tried to get
a nanny from BYU because they wanted a Mormon nanny for the summer. Terrible experience. Terrible experience. That's a story for another day. Yeah. but during that summer, I met this guy who was Mormon, but kind of not totally invested. we started dating.
And within three or four weeks we were about to get engaged. yeah. And he had had like this dream a couple of weeks into us dating where, he described it. He had never been in the temple before, but he described like the ceiling room with altar and all of this stuff. And we just thought this was a sign from
Karina Vance (19:38)
wow.
Sammi (20:01)
that were supposed to get married, sealed, whatever. yeah, we're like literally, it was the week that I thought I was going to get engaged because he was giving all the signs. We had gone like ring shopping and he told me like, maybe you should get your nails done, you know? And he broke up with
out of the blue. It was the most random, like I literally was in shock. And I was like, what the fuck, God?
Karina Vance (20:41)
Did he say why?
Sammi (20:44)
I think that it came down to like, he was really just kind of scared about it, but also like we barely knew each other. And what we did know about each other was that we both kind of wanted, we wanted similar things. Like we wanted marriage and we wanted kids and stuff like that. But like I was very invested in the church and he was.
one foot in, one foot out, kind of invested in the church. And he was just like, my lifestyle just doesn't, I don't think our lifestyle is aligned, basically. And so totally understandable. yeah, but like, wow. Like we were literally like, my gosh, it's so crazy. Cause we literally knew each other for like two seconds, but we were planning our wedding.
pre -engagement, we wanted to get married like probably at the end of that summer I think. Our parents ended up convincing us to wait until the winter and then we were just getting so much pressure on every side. His family was like inactive basically and he had been converted by missionaries in his like early 20s but
Yeah, we were getting so much pressure and we were just like, why don't we just go elope? Like there were literally days when he was like, let's just go to the courthouse and we like almost did. And I was like, I don't know. I kind of want my family to be there. And then he breaks it off. And I was like, what is happening? And also Mormon God, what the fuck? Like you gave us this sign that we were supposed to get married. And now here we are.
And my heart is shattered and I don't know what to do. I literally took the next semester off of college because I was just wrecked. And yeah, yeah, was crazy in every way. But that's normal.
Karina Vance (22:38)
my god.
That would be a lot to process. Good and bad.
Sammi (22:52)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I felt so just conflicted about so many things and, yeah. I think that was the first time that I really felt like the physical effects of heartbreak because you actually do feel it in your chest. Like it's crazy. Yeah.
And so at that point, when I took the semester off of BYU, this is now fall of 2019, I went to California to live with my sister and help with her kids. And,
Gosh, Mormonism is crazy because they teach you just get fucking married. And so I told myself, I'm not going to date for a while. Guess what I started doing? Dating. And what was that? My job? Yeah. Yeah, it literally is your job. Um, so I reconnected in September of 2019 with my now ex -husband.
Karina Vance (23:46)
It's your job.
Sammi (24:04)
He had served as a missionary in my ward, just like congregation, when I was growing up.
Yeah, that happened. Yes. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I remember when he was serving in my ward, like I had the biggest crush on him. I was like a, I don't know, 15, 16 year old girl. And so yeah, we reconnected on Facebook. We started talking. Yeah.
Karina Vance (24:18)
You were that girl. You were that girl.
Wait, hold on, I have a question. You were 15 or 16. Did - Please tell me he didn't have a crush on you
Sammi (24:44)
He didn't do anything and I didn't know if he did. What?
Karina Vance (24:47)
That's the other point.
Just cause if he was I'd be like, that's sketchy. She's a child.
Sammi (24:56)
Yeah, I know. I know. Exactly. Exactly. That was something in our relationship that he would always feel so embarrassed if we were telling our story because of our age gap was like six years and we met each other when I was a child. Yes, that's definitely something that it weird, but nothing happened when when I was a child. If that's what you're. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. He be jeebies.
Karina Vance (25:16)
Okay, that's good.
Sammi (25:26)
Anyhoo, so we start talking, then I go back to BYU for the winter semester of 2020, right before COVID wrecked the world. And one of the classes that I took that semester was the history of the church, which is a real doozy. I don't know if you took that class, but
Karina Vance (25:56)
can't remember which ones I took now. If it was required, I'm sure I did.
Sammi (26:00)
I think it was one of my religious electives.
Karina Vance (26:03)
Okay, maybe
Sammi (26:05)
Yeah. Yeah. So I went into that class like kind of excited because there's like a, I don't know, there's like kind of a limit to what you learn about the history of the church, just in like Sunday school and other church meetings. And I was shocked at what I learned. Like,
And the fact that they were saying this openly in a religious class at a church sanctioned school. We talked about how Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, had, oh, you know, between like 30 and 40 wives. And he was
having these wives behind his original wife Emma's back and that some of them were like 14, 15 years old and that he was marrying other men's wives while they were off preaching the gospel across the world for him. And we talked about the fact that black people couldn't have the priesthood until the 80s and
Not to mention the fact that women can't have the priesthood still today. we talked about like some LBGTQ plus stuff in that class. And I remember being like, why does everybody think this is normal? This stuff is really shitty. We get taught these, all of these like historical things in a very like rose colored glasses type of way in the church.
But this stuff sucks, like more than sucks. And it's not okay, and why are we pretending that it is? And I think at that point, like I of course had had a few other things happen in the past, as I've mentioned, but that was really the point where my shelf started to get things stacked onto it.
If you didn't listen to Karina's episode last week, go back and listen to it. But the shelf metaphor is basically that like you have this shelf that you create in your mind and you put all of the questions and concerns that you have about the church on it. And eventually it gets really heavy or something happens and the shelf breaks. And that's the point where you realize you can't remain in the church anymore.
So yeah, my shelf just really started getting stacked with stuff at that point. So then COVID hits mid semester and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I don't really want to stay here. I suck at doing school online. So I don't think I don't foresee me like staying in school during this online school period.
And I didn't want to go home because my relationship with my parents is not great at this point. And I just really didn't know where to go. And I ended up talking to my ex -husband, my now ex -husband, who was my boyfriend at that point. And we decided that I would move in with him. Rebels! I know. So I sneakily moved up to Idaho.
finished out the semester at BYU. Thank god I had my ecclesiastical endorsement already at that point because I was feeling real guilty and I would not have passed that interview but yeah we start living together doing you know all the things that people who live together do and snap
And yeah, throughout, well, I guess I'll say we got engaged then in October of 2020. And then around that time or a few months before we had moved from one place to another, we weren't really attending church for a while, but then we started attending when we moved to the new area. And
There's this thing that happens in Mormonism that us exmos like to call leadership roulette, where your leadership in your ward, which is again a congregation, is either great and accepting or they suck. And you can just feel all the seething hatred from them. And we lucked out. We had the best leadership.
Our bishop, when we first started attending, just welcomed us with open arms and said that like precedent for the ward that they needed to accept us and love us just as the two human beings that we were. And he ended up eventually becoming our stake president. And the next bishop, same deal. Like we were
loved on hard, never felt any pressure really to like get married. Or at I felt that at the time. I feel a little differently now. But yeah, so we're just attending church and figuring things out and got engaged in October of 2020. And then in January of 2021, we
We have like some priesthood leaders come over and we both got priesthood blessings. And as soon as the priesthood blessings had happened, we looked at each other we're like, we need to get married and we need to get married like now, basically. And we ended up, that was a Sunday. We ended up getting married the next Sunday in the church gym. Yeah. Okay. The leadership loved us so much that they let us break the rules and we got married on a Sunday, which is like unheard of in the Mormon world
Karina Vance (32:26)
wow.
Sammi (32:39)
in the Mormon world. but yeah, I was very just like thrown together. Nothing of what I really like expected or had dreamed of for my wedding. But at that point it was kind of like that, that feeling that you get as a Mormon when you're told that like, if you're doing something wrong, the spirit's going to tell you. And if you don't get on it right away, you're just going to keep getting bugged about it. And
Karina Vance (32:39)
Yeah.
Sammi (33:09)
We just got married. And honestly, the ward was great. Like, you can either have really bad wards or really good wards. That ward was pretty, pretty awesome. It showed up for us and it was awesome. So, anywho, over the course of the time that I was with my ex -husband, both married and unmarried, I had brought up
my shelf items. And there were lots of Sunday mornings when I didn't want to go to church and we would just end up hanging out and talking about my shelf items. And the metaphor that I like to give for this is that it kind of felt like I was taking things off the shelf. We were talking through them, but it never really got resolved. So it kind of felt like we were just dusting them off.
and then putting them back up on the shelf. And it happened over and over and over again. And I just like, was like, okay, well, you know, this is the only true church. So gotta just keep on keeping on. And there were times during our relationship that like, I felt like I had to be the strong one because my ex -husband was struggling with things.
every once in a while, times when I'm sure he felt the same way. But ultimately, yeah, I just kind of kept trying to be the good Mormon woman. And then...
So at that point we were living in Idaho, which is very Mormon. And in April of 2022, we moved to Maine, which is where I live now. And the culture is very different because there's very few Mormons here. And I feel like it honestly gave me the perfect space to be able to leave the church. I wasn't intending on
We got here and I started attending my ward in Maine and making connections with the people and everything. And then in June of 2022, Roe versus Wade was overturned. And somehow that broke my shelf. It felt random and weird.
But I think that it was like the fact that abortion was one of those things that I'd always been told to believe one way about. And I had started having like cognitive dissonance about so many things, including that, like women having rights over what? Their own bodies? Wow. Like the fact that
The government was taking that away from us as women. And so many religious people, especially the Mormons that I had grown up with, gone to school with, whatever, were all like, yes, you know, this is God's work we're doing. It crushed my soul. And I was like, I can't, I cannot be a part of this. And I think it kind of like unraveled everything else too.
That I had been having cognitive dissonance about because if I couldn't stand by a church that was celebrating women's rights being taken away, I also couldn't stand by the racism and their like issues with the LGBTQ plus community. All of the things just came tumbling down. And I like for the next two or three days after Roe versus Wade was overturned, I felt numb. Like so
disassociated and my gosh, I was so scared to tell my husband. So scared. And yeah, it all just kind of came apart at that point.
trying to decide now to go, like, if we continue going down the how I told my husband route, that could take a long time. But maybe that can be an episode for another day. But basically at that point, I decided that I couldn't continue going to church. For a while, I kept going to church for the sake of my husband and my stepkids.
that was like pretty short lived. And around that same time, it kind of like, it kind of made my marriage rocky. And I was talking with one of my sisters at the time about just all the things. And she had brought up things about like exploring her sexuality. And I realized at that point, I was like, don't, I don't know if I'm actually fully straight. There may have been signs over time.
and yeah, so I started like exploring my sexuality and that added a whole other thing into my marriage. and
I ended up filing for divorce in the summer of 2023.
Yeah, I also, it was really, really incredible. The same day that I filed for divorce, I received my letter of confirmation of resignation from the church. That was a monumental day.
Karina Vance (39:22)
Did you tell your ex -husband that you were leaving? Or did you... You told him, right? That you didn't... How did that go? Even if we don't get into how you did
Sammi (39:29)
yeah, yeah.
It did not go well. Yeah, yeah. A big factor in that was that my ex -husband was very adamant that we didn't have kids until we were sealed because Mormons always want their babies born into the covenant. And I was always like, but wouldn't it be better if I like am actually ready
go to the temple and be sealed and not feel like I have to do it or I should do it because I want kids so badly.
Karina Vance (40:12)
But did he not already have children?
Sammi (40:17)
Yeah, he did have kids. I wanted kids. And so it was, yeah, it was just this thing of like, he didn't want us to have kids outside of the covenant, but I didn't really feel ready to go get sealed, because I was questioning a million things. And so me leaving the church basically like took away
that for him, him having more kids in the covenant. And so that didn't go super well. there's so much behind this. He kind of tried, but he definitely did some things. We definitely have to have another episode because he definitely did some things over the course of the next few weeks, months that broke my trust. Right when I was in like
the very raw beginning of having left the church and trying to figure out anything and everything that I could about who I was and what I actually believed in. Just rerouting my whole entire life because it had all been, you know, laid out in front of me by the Mormon church. So yeah, it was a rough, rough time and really changed the
trajectory of my life in a thousand ways.
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So I have officially now been out of the church for two years, I guess, officially, officially with my name off the record for about a year now. And it is crazy how much life can change and how much you can to like totally debunk
The fact that Mormons will tell you that you can't be happy outside of the church, that's a lie. Yeah. my gosh, me too. And the way that you can like be happy in the ways that actually make you happy and not in the ways that they tell you that you're supposed to be happy, it's incredible. Mind blowing. Yeah, so the growth that has come with
Karina Vance (42:28)
Yes. I'm way happier now.
Sammi (42:53)
leaving and finding myself, it's insane, insane to look back at those versions of myself and cringe a little bit, but also be able to be like, okay, like you were doing what you could with what you had at the time. And like you said last week, you like learn new things and you do better. And that's what I try to do every day
Karina Vance (43:21)
So where would you say you're at now as far as religion and God goes?
Sammi (43:28)
Great question. I don't believe in God, at least not Mormon God. He's a pretty shitty guy. I also like really questioned there for a while at the beginning when I was leaving the church if I could remain Christian. And then I started really looking at what Christianity is
the fact that they believe pretty much solely in the Bible. And I was like, actually, like, the whole Bible is just a bunch of like, God telling people to murder other people. And, no.
Karina Vance (44:10)
It's beautiful.
Sammi (44:13)
Yeah, so I decided I couldn't be Christian either. And I kind of just settled into agnostic. I kind of go back and forth sometimes between being feeling like maybe I'm theist agnostic and then atheist agnostic. I don't really know. And I feel it's amazing how comfortable I feel in the unknown. Because in Mormonism,
you have to know everything. Like they tell you, pray to know that this is true. When you talk about your beliefs, you don't just say, I believe, you say, I know as if it's fact. That's a lot of pressure. And I'm grateful to now not feel like I have to know. I can just exist and be okay with that.
How about you? Where are you at with religion, spirituality?
Karina Vance (45:16)
I would consider myself atheist, but there's still times where I am spiritual. Can there be spiritual atheists? I am one. Just because I'll have like experiences or moments where I feel maybe something beyond me or like I'm part of a bigger picture and I don't know if it's necessarily God or if it's just nature plays a big part in it or energy or connection with people.
Sammi (45:25)
I think so. I love that.
Karina Vance (45:45)
where I still be the same feeling that I used to think was the spirit. but I think that positive energy, whether it has to do with God or not is spiritual for me. And like you said, I'm pretty comfortable with not knowing. And I don't ever want to think that I have the one right answer and everyone is wrong. So I try to at least be open minded. and yeah.
Sammi (45:46)
So there.
I'm going to go.
Yeah.
Karina Vance (46:14)
Sometimes if I'm in the mood, I'll say a prayer. Sometimes I don't do that for months. Sometimes I'll do some random rituals and play with tarot cards. I just like to explore, find things that make me feel good.
Sammi (46:27)
Yeah.
That's awesome! that's so cool and it feels I'm sure so nice to just be able to like do exactly what you want to do and nothing more nothing less not being told this is exactly how you should act this is exactly what you should do that don't miss
Karina Vance (46:51)
So I'm much happier being able to let myself decide what feels good to me and what feels right and wrong and what brings me peace. Even if it doesn't make sense to anyone else, it doesn't have to.
Sammi (47:07)
Right, exactly, it never has to. That's so real. Well, thank you for letting me share my story.
Karina Vance (47:15)
Thank you for sharing it. I feel like I have so many questions and more things I want to talk about, but we'll run out of time so we can just dive in on all of that craziness later with missions and marriage and temples and
The list keeps going.
Sammi (47:33)
Yeah, yeah, like all the history. I know the history is a big factor in both of our journeys out of the church. There's so many topics that we can talk on and we will. I'm excited to keep going. It'll be great.
Karina Vance (47:50)
Well, thank you.
Sammi (47:52)
Well, awesome. Yeah, thank you. Just as a reminder, we're on Instagram, TikTok, Reddit, and Patreon. And it's peculiarpeoplexmo as the handle. So go like, subscribe, share our content. That would be sweet. Tell all your other Exmo friends about us. And yes, so true.
Karina Vance (48:16)
or anyone who is curious because I know there's a lot of people who have never been Mormon that ask me all kinds of crazy questions. if you know people that just want to hear about it, go for it. Find us every Sunday.
Sammi (48:29)
Definitely. I am definitely like a... Yeah. I'm definitely like a cult documentary fanatic and so I... Yeah. Everybody's interested, pretty much. Maybe not everybody, but... We'll definitely have some Never Mormons on here, I'm sure. It's interesting and batshit crazy stuff that we've been through. yeah.
Alrighty, well, I hope you all have a great week.
Karina Vance (49:03)
See you guys, thanks for joining.
Sammi (49:06)
See ya, bye.