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Hear from the folks that live, breathe and know the national parks best.
Everyone. Thanks for checking out the Safe Travels podcast. My name is Joey. Today, we are at Crystal Cove State Park in Southern California. We have a really special episode with Chris Hazard known as the hiking guy.
Joey Liberatore:We talked about outdoor gear, tech gear, and, of course, his love for the outdoors and the special healing process that takes place when you hit the trails. Well, Chris, before we get into hiking and outdoor tech, I wanna start with your story because I think it's really relatable especially for people that are watching or listening to this because your story also kind of started behind a computer screen and then you went outdoors and found your love for nature and hiking.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting especially today we're in front of screens so much and it's unconscious like you're there's a screen obviously, you know, on your phone, on your television, on your computer, in your car. You're just always looking at a screen and it can't be that healthy. But years ago, I was I was working and I was in front of screens a lot and I was in Switzerland and my company had sort of put a project on hold and I went around and I hiked everywhere and it just made me feel so good. It was so much fun.
Cris Hazzard:I took an outdoors course that taught me how to survive in the in the wilds with basically nothing and that was very liberating because I realized that I didn't really need money, like worst case scenario. Like, I was if I was gonna be a homeless person, I probably wouldn't be, like, in New York City. I'd be out here somewhere having fun, not that that ever happened. And then fast forward to the early 2000, I had started a company with a couple buddies. It was a startup, working long hours and everything and I'd kind of gotten away from the outdoors a little bit at that point and it just came to me.
Cris Hazzard:I was like, I just need to spend every weekend hiking and I, I did that. I was we were in New York, but I would take train up to the Catskills and I would go hike I go backpack, and that was when I really started getting into it hardcore. And that what I kind of observed and I don't know why this happens, but what I observed is I just felt better. You know, I can guarantee you that if you sit in front of a screen for hours and hours, you're not gonna feel good. You're gonna feel tweaked out whether it's something fun, whether you're playing a video game or not.
Cris Hazzard:Like, you always feel tweaked out after a lot of screen time. And getting back into nature just reverses that or recharges your battery. And I, you know, when I gave it some thought, I was like, it doesn't really matter what your religion is or what you believe in or, you know, if you believe in nothing, something. The way that we're created is the same as the way these are created. It's just it's something that happens.
Cris Hazzard:We don't, you know, we think we might know what why. You might have faith in why that happens, but whatever is creating everything on Earth and I I don't mean like, you know, cameras and coffee, but the real things like plants, animals, people, you know, connecting with that or reconnecting with that, I think, is is a a healing experience for whatever reason. It just works and that was all I needed to know. So
Joey Liberatore:And those that are unfamiliar with you, you're known as the hiking guy on YouTube. You do hiking tutorials and you show, you know, really awesome trails both popular and unpopular trails that that folks can do. What made you want to get into the business of sharing those trails, and teaching people how to do, you know, these trails that you post?
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. Wasn't wasn't a business that firms I don't I think it would be strong to call it a business now. Business implies you're making, like, a lot of money, which I I I don't necessarily, but, you know, I I came out west. We moved out west, to my wife and I. I was working in in digital marketing.
Cris Hazzard:I was working we talked a little bit earlier, working with the Kings and different people here in LA, and I would hike on the weekends still. And I I realized this was a playground for hiking here in Southern California. And, I'd have friends who come out and they'd be like, how do I hike, you know, Mount Baldy or Hollywood sign? And I would just write out instructions to make them easy. Just put arrows on them, knots, not confusing.
Cris Hazzard:Just like go to the sign, 2 miles, make a left. You know, just keep it simple so that there's not a lot to remember. And, I decided to post that online and this, you know, it wasn't gonna be a business. It was just to help people. And I remember checking back after a little while and looking at the analytics and being like, oh, man.
Cris Hazzard:There's thousands of people actually looking at this. So I realized it was helpful. I was getting feedback and from there, it just expanded into, you know, gear and skills. And the whole reasoning behind this, the whole, you know, the whole sort of ethos here is to help people get outside. I really want people to have that healing and energizing experience that I did that I mentioned before when they go outside and there's a lot of anxiety around the outdoors.
Cris Hazzard:You know, animals and rattlesnakes and all kinds of stuff. People get freaked out and it's really not like that. You've you've I mean, you've been out, you know, having your adventures like you definitely can get into trouble. But if you know a little bit, it'll take you a long way. It's like that 20 80 rule.
Cris Hazzard:So, you know, I just want to demystify it and make it approachable for people so that they're not, freaked out when they go there. Whether it's doing a hike or using a piece of gear or whatever it might be. So that's the whole reason why I'm doing this.
Joey Liberatore:I want to touch on the safety stuff shortly, but I want to back up a little bit and talk about what you had just mentioned with the healing in nature.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah.
Joey Liberatore:Why do you think we find so much healing in nature? And that's, you know, part of the reason why we're doing this show too is because that's the whole message is that when you get outdoors and you're around this creation, you feel different. What what is it that you feel that that feels healing for you?
Cris Hazzard:It's such a it's such a subtle thing. It's it's not like you go out and you have this epiphany where there's, you know, hallelujah sounds and like, you know, a vagina light coming down on you. It's more, I think I think it's a few things. You know, I think it's slowing down. I think it's getting away from technology and getting away from things that people have created.
Cris Hazzard:That's another thing. Aside from screens, like, everything in our life is something filtered through other humans. Whether, you know, it's our society, whether it's, you know, something that's been passed down from like Greek democracy or whether it's a, you know, a traffic sign. Everything is seen through the filter of somebody else's ideas. But when you're in nature, when you're out here on these trails, you know, the trail is kind of filtered through people.
Cris Hazzard:But in general, everything you're looking at is just stuff that's completely natural. And just being a part of that and being connected with that, is what I noticed makes me feel better. And there there have been studies done, I'm reading a really book a really interesting book right now about trees and how trees plants communicate through root root systems underground and they're all connected and there's moss and and fungus. And it all, like, connects through electrical signals and they can talk to each other. It all happens on a scale slower, but it tells me that there's a lot more going on than we know about.
Joey Liberatore:Mhmm.
Cris Hazzard:Right? And and Japan somewhere, maybe Japan, they did a study that they found, trees release I forget what it was. Don't quote me this. But pheromones or something into the air that's an actual chemical, you know, that you would breathe in when you're out here. And I mean, you can walk out here.
Cris Hazzard:It smells right now. It's very fragrant. But that's all coming into your body and you're you're making a connection. So I'm not sure what what the mechanism is, but it's just some sort of connection and it just brings you back to reality. Like, this is reality.
Cris Hazzard:You know playing Fortnite is not reality. This is reality. So
Joey Liberatore:Was there a park or trail that was almost like your moment? Not only from like a healing perspective or but from like a this is how I wanna live my life?
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. I mean, I think initially to back up a little bit when I was in Switzerland and I hiked all over the place, that was where I just I really understood the beauty of of nature. Before that, you know I was just sort of an average kid. I was into sports and video games and different things and it didn't I didn't really have any of these natural experiences where it's like, oh wow. I want to really be involved with this.
Cris Hazzard:But when I was in Switzerland it was just unbelievable and, you know, that that was that was a bit of an epiphany. And then going into going to hiking here in Southern California and just having so much variety, having Joshua tree, having the San Gabriel, San Bernardino's, having the Sonoran Desert, Mojave Desert, coastal parks like this, it just every time I went somewhere, no matter where it was, it just felt like an adventure. And there's not one specific trail where I was like, this is a trail that changed everything. It's more it's more like whenever I come to a new trail or even a trail I haven't been to in a while, it feels it feels like an adventure. Like, I'm 6 years old and I'm on some kind of adventure and that that for me is is just the great feeling.
Cris Hazzard:It doesn't really matter where and if I travel somewhere, you know, every time I see a new trail I'm like, this is the best trail in the world. This is awesome. And then I go to another one and it's like, this is so cool. So, it's just there's a lot out there if you look for it. If you just take 5 minutes and go to all trails or do some research online, you can find lots of trails that you're gonna feel very different than probably your normal existence.
Joey Liberatore:We were just talking about off camera too. We both recently were at Death Valley and for both of us it's one of our underrated parks and just magnificent magnificent from like a geological perspective all the things that are there there from sand dunes to mountains and Dante's view is that moment for me last week. I stood at the top of Dante's view and it's like mind blowing how incredible it is and then just, you know, a 100 miles down the road is the tallest mountain in the lower 48. So your point, yeah, there's when we look around us, there's so much contrasting landscapes and atmospheres that is like almost hard to take in and hard to process.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. It's a lot. It is. It's it's it's mind blowing when you think about it. And what even blows my mind more, especially with Death Valley, is that, you know, now 2 hours whatever away is Las Vegas.
Cris Hazzard:You know, it's like the opposite of Death Valley. And it's it's it's such a contrast, but Death Valley is one of my favorites because you have, you know, obviously the lowest point, you have Badwater Basin and you have Telescope Peak which is, I don't know, I think 11,000 feet somewhere around there. You know, so you're looking at a desert, barren desert and then you look up and there's snow and it's just it's just so cool.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. I was there last week and it was a 107 degrees on Badwater Basin and then there's snow at Telescope Peak. It's hard to process, hard to understand that. For people that haven't gone to a national park or a state park or their local park and just been outdoors and been on a trail, what's one thing that you would say to encourage them especially if you know they're sad by you know the office life or being in front of a screen.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah.
Joey Liberatore:How do you encourage them to give it a chance and go outside and explore?
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. It's it's really not that hard. I'd say first you just need to think of it as as walking. Right? You can't.
Cris Hazzard:There's a lot of hype. If you go to YouTube there's gonna be things about like gear you need and like animals that will kill you and all this like hyped up stuff. It's really not like that. It's very tame and you really just need to look at it as a walk. And the only difference between walking in a park and walking around your block is that, you know, you might not have the type of communications or connection that you do.
Cris Hazzard:Like, you can't just call Uber if you get lost. So you just have to prepare a little bit, have a map, just some basic things to get ready for that. But that's, you know, don't don't overthink it. Just go out for a walk. Don't go too far.
Cris Hazzard:Don't go too hard. Just, you know, baby step into it. There's a great challenge called the 52 hike challenge and it's it's a community where you sign up and you know the challenges every week you do a different hike and I've seen a lot of people get into hiking that way, just by getting out. It doesn't have to be like, hiking is not people have a conception that it's like a physical challenge, like it's a marathon. Like I'm gonna do this and push past my limits.
Cris Hazzard:It's it's not what it is. It's really just going out and enjoying the outdoors. You don't have to walk fast. You can if you want. But, you know, just not overthinking it and not being scared.
Cris Hazzard:And if you are scared, do research on what's scaring you Mhmm. To get a good good understanding of it. Because most risks I mean, your your risk is thing when you go for a hike is probably driving to the trailhead. You probably have way more of a chance of getting into a car accident or something on your way to a trailhead or to a fast food restaurant or it's your job than you do actually getting hurt on the trail. That said, there's some things you can do to prepare.
Cris Hazzard:Like I said, you know, bring a map or get an app like AllTrails. Bring a flashlight or a headlamp with you because number one thing is people get trapped out after dark. They underestimate their pace. They get trapped after dark. And then, you know, being out in the woods when it's dark is a lot different than being out during the daytime.
Cris Hazzard:So just having a headlamp will let you follow the trail back or do whatever you need to do. So this is some simple things like that that you can do to to be safe. Let people know where you're going beforehand and when you're gonna be back. But yeah. Just there's a lot lot a lot of answer there.
Cris Hazzard:But you know, really just do it. Don't let your fear stop you because it's not it's really a pretty tame, you know, experience or events that you can do.
Joey Liberatore:What would be kind of your tier of what is a moderate hike, what's an easy hike, and what's a hard hike, and, you know, what makes each one of those things the way that they are?
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. It's a good question. I mean, it's there's 2 main factors. There's distance and there's ascent or how much you're gonna climb and let me just preface this with, when I'm talking about hiking, we're talking about like walking on a trail. We're not talking about mountaineering.
Cris Hazzard:We're not talking about like crampons and ice axes and going up Mount Mount Everest. People sort of confuse those things. We're not talking about climbing up boulders. That's called scrambling. Sometimes hikes have that, but usually that will be explained when you read up on it.
Cris Hazzard:So we're just talking about walking. Distance, when you start, I think anything, you know, 4 miles or under is is a good beginner hike. That's generally what people can walk in an hour, hour and a half. And, you know, middle would be somewhere between that maybe 10 miles and a longer hike would be 10 miles plus. The one thing that most beginners don't really understand is ascent and that's how much you're climbing.
Cris Hazzard:So if you have a let's say you have a 3 mile hike and it's got 3,000 feet of ascent, that means you're climbing a 1,000 feet. That's gonna be steep. That's gonna be like walking up an escalator Mhmm. For 3 miles. So you want to look at ascent.
Cris Hazzard:Anything anything under a 1,000 well, anything under 500 feet will probably be pretty flat. Anything under a 1000 feet will be, generally okay for most people. In between a 1,030,000 you're gonna have some climbing to do and anything over 3,000 will generally be like a big mountain. And it's not necessarily just climbing straight up. It could be like ups and downs as well, which is for me, that's a harder hike when you have to go up and then down and then up and then down because your legs get in a rhythm of climbing or descending.
Cris Hazzard:But, you know, those are the things to look at ascent and distance.
Joey Liberatore:You mentioned a little earlier for folks that are just getting into hiking or learning about hiking, the gear world can be a bit overwhelming. Yeah. So just to get out on the trail, what do you recommend is a must and what do you what do you think is like kind of a overrated piece of equipment comfort
Cris Hazzard:like, let's just start with the the easy stuff like fitness clothes, you know, gonna want comfortable like, let's just start with the the easy stuff like fitness clothes and comfortable shoes. Those can be sneakers. If you go and buy hiking boots, I I can guarantee and you not wear them and you just go do like a long hike, your feet are gonna get blistered and stuff. Most of us who hike all the time now hike in trail runners. So if you wanna get a good shoe for hiking, a trail runner is essentially a, you know, a sneaker with built for the trail.
Cris Hazzard:Waterproof is another big misconception. A lot of people this is backed up by people who do like the Pacific Crest Trail, you know, 26 100 miles, the Appalachian Trail. If you go look at them, they're all gonna sort of echo what I'm telling you. But trail runners that are breathable. So the idea is instead of trying to keep your feet dry, just get them wet and let them dry.
Cris Hazzard:That's that's the best thing. Fitness clothes, bring a small backpack. It doesn't have to be fancy. Bring some water. Like I said, bring a flashlight or a headlamp.
Cris Hazzard:Don't rely on the flashlight on your phone because that will drain the battery down. If you do get an emergency, you're gonna want that battery life on your phone to last for a while. But that's really all you need. I think the things that are extra, trekking poles and some people swear by trekking poles. I've used them for years.
Cris Hazzard:I haven't used them for years. They can help when you're going downhill so you don't slide. They can help when you're crossing streams. Some people really like them because they think they take the strain off your knees. But, you know, if you don't have trekking poles, don't make that an excuse not to go hiking.
Cris Hazzard:You don't need a big fancy backpack. You just need something that's comfortable. And there's definitely affordable ones out there that you can get. It doesn't have to be a lot of money. And the other thing is like specialized hiking clothing and everything.
Cris Hazzard:A lot of the times you can just wear fitness clothing. You want things that are gonna wick the moisture away, dry quickly, and basically keep you comfortable.
Joey Liberatore:So let's talk about trail etiquette for people that are out on the trails. This is something both for beginning hikers but also I think for experienced hikers too that, you know, we oftentimes forget about when we're out on the trails so when it comes to speakers when it comes to up trails, down trails with some important etiquette that people need to follow when they're out there and being courteous of other hikers.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. It's a good question. A lot of this I I always thought was common sense, but you know that's sort of relevant if it's not. Maybe not for everyone. In general, there's there's a general principle in the outdoors community and I just hike and call leave no trace.
Cris Hazzard:So when you're out on the trail, the first thing you wanna do is just not disturb anything. You don't wanna cut cut a trail, you know, like go off the trail. You don't wanna like stack rocks up. Do that kind of stuff. You wanna leave everything the way it was in a natural way so that other hikers can enjoy what that, you know, what it looks like, what it is.
Cris Hazzard:Part of that is taking everything, picking all your trash out. Everything you bring in, you should take out with you. I always bring a gallon ziplock bag and if I, you know, if I have my own trash I put it in there and if I see trash on the trail I'll put it in there. One of the worst things I see, is when people let their dog go to the bathroom and they put it in a bag and then they leave it. You know, that's the that gets the common sense.
Cris Hazzard:I mean, I guess it's not common sense for people to to not do that. Other things that are a little more nuanced, you want to keep your conversation low. If there's other hikers around, they don't wanna hear about, you know, how bad your work week was. No music or speakers. If you are gonna do that, wear headphones.
Cris Hazzard:And I don't recommend wearing headphones because then you can't hear like right now around us and if it picks up on the mics, but there's a crow. We can hear birds and, you know, the wind. All kinds of different things. That's that's part of the experience. So leave the headphones out.
Cris Hazzard:And also if you have headphones in, you can step on a rattlesnake. You can do other things you're not aware. You know, that's that's a big one. Also, when you're climbing, basically the right of way on a trail, if you're going up a climb, people going up have the right of way. People going down should stop.
Cris Hazzard:It's a little counterintuitive because normally when I'm going up, I'm looking for like an excuse to stop and take a breather. But the the right of way is people coming up on the trail and, also with horses and mountain bikes, there's this triangle of who who you should yield to. I always say, if you're a hiker just yield to everybody because, obviously if somebody's on a horse that's a different type of thing to control a lot harder than if you're walking. And same thing with a mountain bike. I mountain bike all the time.
Cris Hazzard:Now peep people on a mountain bike don't always have the luxury of being able to stop safely because the trail might be narrow, there might be an edge or something. So you're walking, you're taking your time, you know, just let everyone go by and be polite. The other thing that I I see quite often with new hikers is that they they're they don't say hello on the trail. And I could see this. We were talking a little bit about the Grand Canyon earlier.
Cris Hazzard:Towards the top of the Grand Canyon, it's people who aren't really hikers. They're just maybe experienced it for the first time and they almost never say hello. But then when you get deep into the Grand Canyon, you'd be in the middle of nowhere and you'll see somebody and there's a hello, there's a conversation on like water and trail conditions. It's probably because they're an experienced hiker versus non experienced. It's okay to say hello.
Cris Hazzard:It's okay to be friendly. The exception to that is if you don't feel comfortable around somebody, you know, you don't have to obviously say hello or feel obligated say hello, but be respectful and be welcoming to people because there's people who are gonna go out on the trail. Maybe they're new. Maybe they don't feel like they're a hiker in whatever way and they're gonna be feeling uncomfortable from the gun. So just being welcoming is is an important thing.
Joey Liberatore:So Yeah. How important is the hiking community with each other for folks that you hike with and know and then folks that you meet on the trail? There's been many times when you're on a tough trail going up or down where you just share a laugh with somebody who's also feeling the pain of the hike. You know, it's that's what makes hiking so enjoyable I think is is obviously the nature and the creation around us, but the people that you meet that are also out there healing with you.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. No. That's that's a huge part of it and that that kind of that goes back what I was just saying like the people who are just casual hiking probably aren't in it for that. But the people who are really doing something, you know, a little more substantial usually are. But yeah, there's a whole, you know, there there have been I've just seen over I've been doing this for about 10 years now.
Cris Hazzard:I've seen over those 10 years so many different local hiking communities pop up like Facebook groups and just all different types of things like that 52 hike challenge, like all these different challenges and groups come up. So it's it's it's really a great time to do it. You don't have to do it alone and that's another tip. I'm glad you mentioned that. Sometimes people have anxiety going out alone.
Cris Hazzard:Find a group that you can go out with and the one caveat there is there are a lot of meetup groups for hiking and I've I've seen firsthand bad things happen because anyone can run a meetup group.
Joey Liberatore:Mhmm.
Cris Hazzard:And they might not be qualified. I can almost guarantee you they don't have insurance. I was a guide for years and I had insurance. I eventually got out of it because the insurance is just so expensive. But, you know, if I was to do a guided hike here, I would need to get a permit.
Cris Hazzard:It's a whole thing. But if you go in a meetup group, usually it's not that strict and I have seen people get hurt. So if you're gonna find a group, make it a reputable group. Here on the West Coast, we have like the Sierra Club. On the East Coast, there's Appalachian Mountain Club.
Cris Hazzard:There's all different types of groups around that you can go out with and, you know, get a part of that community and make great trail friends.
Joey Liberatore:So One other thing I wanna bring up about trails and doing prep work before you go out and knowing it and maybe have some thoughts on this is when I met with Jason Nez in the Grand Canyon, one thing that he had mentioned is like a lot of the trails have cultural significance especially if you're in, you know, a national park like the Grand Canyon or like most of the national parks really, in the United States and even in some state parks what's, you know, the courtesy of when you're on these trails is, you know, paying respect to, you know, the trails that have been walked on for 1000 of years by people who came well before us.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. It's it's just it's just being respectful to the landscape. It's that leave no trace principle. When, you know, when I go out and I see like graffiti on rocks and you know the dog poop and stuff it just you know, it's it's like spinning on the land. It's like having no respect for it.
Cris Hazzard:I think the best thing we can do and there's obviously more nuanced ways to do this if you're creating content, you know, acknowledging the land you're on, the tribal peoples who are here before you. There's all kinds of, you know, more technical things you do, but I think just respecting the lands, being helpful, being kind, are just the simple ways to to pay respect to everything and it it it's great and I don't think, you know, I don't think it necessarily has to be a special trail or anything to do that. I think everywhere you go that's probably a good, you know, a good thing just to leave things better than you found them. It doesn't mean moving things around. Sometimes it means just leaving things the way they are, and and you know helping somebody if they need help.
Joey Liberatore:I'm curious about your thoughts on this. Now in like the Instagram era and the social era, you know there's content creators going to these really beautiful places within parks and just anywhere in the country and in the world and there's more of a willingness to not geotag locations to preserve and protect the area. I'm curious your thoughts on that and know, how we can get to a point within the hiking, and exploring community where we can feel comfortable, geotagging a spot knowing that it's gonna be protected and preserved and left like you found it? Yeah. Here's the thing.
Joey Liberatore:You can't it goes
Cris Hazzard:in this whole idea of gatekeeping information. Right? Which is what, you know, this is what the Pope did years ago to try to like shut Galileo down. Right? They didn't want everyone to know that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe.
Cris Hazzard:You can't gatekeep information. What and I think, you know, actually Leave No Trace, that's an organization. I think for a while back couple years ago, they said don't geotag and then they reversed that. Because if you if you don't do that, people can get in trouble, people can get hurt. I think it's really about educating people to be respectful of the land.
Cris Hazzard:I I I can't say like if I find a special place this is just for me because it's not. It's for for everybody. It's for it's for everybody. And that's that's a that's a very it's like a very shortage and fear based mentality to say, you know, I'm not gonna tell you where this is. Some things there are exceptions for, I think, just because they need to be protected.
Cris Hazzard:There's places like I've gone where I've, you know, found petroglyphs and there's a place called the ancient Bristlecone Forest up in, Central California in the White Mountains and there's the I think it was the oldest tree on earth. I think there's another one in South America now, but they keep that hidden and it's because people will go there and destroy it. But, you know, except for the special cases, I think in general you just need to be open about that and I think it's really about teaching people to be respectful of the outdoors. And, yeah. You know, the more people we get outdoors, more people get appreciating it, being respectful, the less that will happen.
Joey Liberatore:When you, when you go out outdoors have you found that when you do research on the land in terms of the history of the land, the formations of the land, do Do you enjoy it more when you're out and you know a little bit more about the land that you're on?
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. 100% and I include that in all of my guides, when I can. It doesn't you know, not every place has a history and, you know, the pre European history especially in the States, there's not always a lot of it. Mhmm. I wish there were more, but when you go on a hike and first of all, if you know where you're going and what to expect, that prepares you just to do the hike safely.
Cris Hazzard:But knowing that there's gonna be things along the way you can look for, almost makes it like a scavenger hunt. It gets back that whole idea of it being an adventure. Yeah. Beforehand. Too many people I see get something like Alltrails and they're just following the line and they're like, is my blue dot on the green line to make sure they're in the right place?
Cris Hazzard:And that's an important thing, But you miss so much of what's around you. And just spending 15 minutes beforehand, reading a blog like my website or other ones where they're gonna give you a little bit more context to what you're doing will just make it more enjoyable. It's like it's like going to an art museum and just like looking at a painting and being like, oh, that looks nice versus understanding how that painting came into being and why it's important and, you know, what happens when this was, you know, what happens historically when this painting was was done. Same idea.
Joey Liberatore:And I think the cool thing about these landscapes too is when like you think about the Grand Tetons for instance. Yep. Geologically it's considered very young. One of the youngest mountain ranges, a part of the Rocky Mountain, range. And it's it's still changing changing.
Joey Liberatore:You're on a changing landscape. They I think I heard something. Don't quote me on this, but I think I heard something that Grand Teton one day will be one of the tallest mountain ranges in the world based on the the pace that it's continuing to grow at. So when you're marveling at these landscapes, you're on something that's a 1000000 years down the road. You know, if if human and creation are still here, they're gonna see a landscape that is drastically changed from when we saw it, you know, today.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. Yeah. Great great point. You know, the Grand Canyon is where this really hits home with me because when you hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, which you shouldn't do unless you have unless you have the experience to know what you're doing, but if you do if you do like a rim to rim, at the bottom of the Grand Canyon is, I I forgot what it is, it's just it's like a it's called the Vishnu rock formation. I think it's around 2,000,000,000 years old.
Cris Hazzard:You can put your hand on a rock that's 2,000,000,000 years old. That just blows my head, you know. It just it it really puts it puts existence, it puts everything beauty, it puts it all into context. Almost like when people, you know, look at the stars or something like that. It just it it just blows my mind to get back to your point of Death Valley too, you know.
Cris Hazzard:It just all the variations and all the rocks all different colors just like how is this even possible and that's you know, they shot a lot of the first Star Wars movie in Death Valley. You know like, yeah because this this looks surreal, you know? It looks surreal.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah and on an upcoming episode that we have on safe travels, Matt LaMar from Death Valley talks about how they use NASA uses Death Valley as a landing spot for the Mars rover because it's the closest area that they can find to other planets.
Cris Hazzard:That's awesome.
Joey Liberatore:Isn't that crazy?
Cris Hazzard:That's awesome.
Joey Liberatore:It's unbelievable to think about. What are some things in the hiking community that you wish were different or that you hope, you know, are going to grow and adapt and, you know, encourage more people to go outside?
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. It's it's a good question. I think that the obvious one is like more trails, more public lands, more protected lands. Right now, there's a part of the government called the Bureau of Land Management. They own they manage they don't we own.
Cris Hazzard:They manage 10 percent of the the, you know, those land in the United States. I'd like to see more of that turn into public lands, conservation, like a true conservative agenda where we can conserve the lands, turn it into parks because that's what's gonna be important, long term. I, I'd like to see more public transportation trailheads. It's it's it's sad because especially here in the states, you know, it's tough to get to a trailhead unless you have a car. And a lot of people don't have cars.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. And I think a lot of people who could benefit from the outdoors, you know, don't have a way to go and experience the outdoors. And that's that's that's a problem. And I also think it just needs to be more inclusive. I don't think I think in general, the general vibe for the outdoors it's traditionally been, you know, 20 20 something year old white people with smiles on their face with, you know, 5% body fat and like, hey, I'm seeing.
Cris Hazzard:You know, and that's that's not how that's not how the world looks. And I think people feel uncomfortable if they don't fit into that that sort of, you know, mold. But really this is a place for everyone and I I I just and I don't have an answer for this question, but you know I just wish things were a little more inclusive and I just want people to feel comfortable out there. The the worst the worst culprit of of making people feel comfortable, let's throw this out there. There's and this happened to me.
Cris Hazzard:I I've seen people say it now and like this is happening because I'm x, y, or z. I identify this way. But this happened to me, many times is when you go out and somebody starts critiquing your gear setup or like, hey, you shouldn't be hiking this in Trail Runners or you shouldn't be in hiking sandals. Like, this is dangerous. And, you know, I think that probably comes from a good place but it definitely feel it can feel very condescending.
Cris Hazzard:So I'd say if you do encounter something like that, you know, just take it with a grain of salt. No one's your boss out here. Mhmm. And maybe they have some wisdom in what they're saying. Maybe there is some kind of condition.
Cris Hazzard:Just be open minded, but, don't be intimidated by that because that happens to everyone all the time. There's always the grumpy old guy hiker who thinks he knows more than than everyone.
Joey Liberatore:And that's a great point because I was gonna bring up, you know, relating this maybe to sports for kids growing up and families that are watching this is sometimes sports can be really hard to get into for families because the barrier to entry when it comes to price of equipment for baseball or soccer or, you know, you name the sport. They're all really expensive which can really narrow out a lot of segments of people who might wanna get into the sport or interest in the sport and it can be the same for hiking gear and backpacking gear and camping gear. When you're trying to figure out what gear is appropriate for you and you have you know, this mountain of information of different gear you can buy and then you start looking at price tags, you get to a point where you almost feel so overwhelmed that I'm just gonna back out completely. This isn't for me if I'm gonna have to spend this amount of money just to go out on a walk or on a hike. Yeah.
Joey Liberatore:So I think that, you know, that that could be a definitely a concern for people getting into into hiking.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. I I I kind of alluded to or I mentioned before, but, like, if you wanna start hiking, sneakers with a good tread, fitness clothes, same thing you'd wear to the gym, any old backpack, put enough water in there, put some snacks in there, Put an extra layer in there in case you're trapped out overnight. Get an LED flashlight or headlamp which you can buy for like $5 at a gas station. It doesn't have to be a fancy one. And use your phone for navigation.
Cris Hazzard:Get an app like AllTrails. There's a bunch of different apps, and then you're gonna be 80% of the way there. You don't you don't need a lot. And again, that's a misconception. And the thing about the reason why it's it's that that's out there is because when I create guides and I put them on YouTube or, you know, put people put things on Instagram, all those platforms are set up to get advertisers to buy into content that's getting promoted.
Cris Hazzard:So it's all based on people selling things. So it's all skewed in that direction. That's why that feels overwhelming and it's really not. It's just the things I just mentioned and you can you can hike safely.
Joey Liberatore:We've talked a lot so far about, the Leave No Trace principles in the organization. I think maybe some people when they think about leaving no trace or if they, you know, litter or drop a piece of trash it's just more of an eyesore on the landscape influx on the property, not only from a geology standpoint, but also from a wildlife standpoint. Can you, you know, share some insight on that on why even just a small piece of trash goes a lot more than just just an eyesore.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. So so there's a couple of things. Right? First of all, trash takes a long time to biodegrade. Even things like banana peel, I know people throw banana peels, like, oh, or an orange rind.
Cris Hazzard:They take years to degrade. So I think don't quote me on that, but I've I've been told that. So there's just that and you want to leave things the way, you know, the way they are. The big impact is with wildlife. Because essentially once once wildlife gets accustomed to eating human food, then they become a problem.
Cris Hazzard:Mhmm. People in Yosemite feed bears. Bears then think that people equate to food. If they don't get food they could attack people. They're gonna go in dumpsters and generally those animals have to be put down, have to be euthanized.
Cris Hazzard:And it's it's all because somebody fed them. And it's it's it's tragic and I'm I'm sure no one wants that. They think they're doing something kind for the animal by giving them that, but it's just a problem and you need to keep those animals wild. We've already taken away so much habitat and space from, you know, the other living creatures on earth that like let's just do our best to be respectful to what's there.
Joey Liberatore:I attended this ranger talk in Wyoming at Grand Tetons and, they were telling us about a bear in the park that they named Sammy because there is new campers in the campground and the bear the bear approached them. Wasn't showing any mannerisms of aggression but was more curious, and the family, you know, rightfully so got, you know, a little scared and so they threw a sandwich at it and hit the the bear in the head. And so that's why they called it Sammy. But, the bear ate the sandwich. They, the family reported it to the rangers which, you know, the right thing to do and then, after that, the rangers were able to to capture the bear and relocate bear and put a a geotag on it.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. That bear after relocating a 150 miles in the park returned to that same exact campground within a week after they geotagged it. And when that occurs they have to call, zoos and other wildlife refuges to to be able to maybe relocate the bear to those spots and if they can't take the bear that's when we see bears get euthanized so to your point it's something as simple as that just being freaked out and not knowing an animal's mannerisms could ultimately end up you know, unfortunately being the wildlife's life.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. And it can also get you really sick too in the a lot of different national parks, but Grand Canyon, I'm thinking of specifically right now, there's all these signs, to not feed the squirrels because some of the squirrels have I wanna say it's the plague. Something that sounds insane. But you know you can get bitten by a squirrel and get the plague.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. I brought trivia cards to play trivia with you, which we're not gonna do but one of the trivia cards going on that was what's the most dangerous animal in Grand Canyon it's the squirrels. The squirrels give the most bites on human beings every year. It's pretty incredible and it's because of how adapted they are to being fed by humans. And I you know when I was in Grand Canyon you see squirrels all over the trails with the orange peels and yeah it's tough to see.
Joey Liberatore:We talked a little bit about basic hiking gear. As hiking continues to evolve but more so how technology continues to evolve There's, GPSs, Garmin's a big player, and watches and the sat phones. Sat phones are not something that I'm completely familiar with. I know you recently did a podcast and a video about them, kind of explaining the entry level sat phones, how they can be used, the pros and cons of that if you're if you're able to to speak to those.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. So, so first of all, it's it's a satellite communicator. It can get confusing with the satellite phones. The satellite phones have been around for a while.
Joey Liberatore:Mhmm.
Cris Hazzard:Generally very expensive. They just work like regular phones, but the plans are really expensive. The breakthrough in the last 10 years or so has been a satellite communicator, which is a little, usually a little device like the size of, you know, Zippo lighter, a little bit bigger sometimes. And you can send text messages back and forth, and it's important because you can send an SOS. They're plugged in to response centers, emergency response centers that are set up for the outdoors.
Cris Hazzard:So if you were to call 911 from a trail, they might not know how to just they're set up to send an ambulance or police car. They're not set up to, like, send a helicopter to pick somebody off the side of a cliff. That's a whole other level. That's changing and that will change because it has to, but satellite communicators are tools and you you basically buy the device a couple $100 and then you buy a plan for it just like a cell phone plan and it gives you a certain amount of messages. So that if you're running late on a hike let's say you're on a hike and you're just, you know, missed time that you can email your friends or family and say, I'm late.
Cris Hazzard:You don't have to call the police. I'll be home on time, which is I use the most, but you could also say, you know, I broke my leg. I need a ride out. Or the way I've used it and I've seen other people use it is you come across somebody who's having problems and you can use it just like calling 911 for somebody else. There's a bunch of different models.
Cris Hazzard:Garmin makes them. There's a Motorola Defy. There's a company called Spot. They all have their strengths and weaknesses And just on my website, I review all of them. You can check them out there.
Cris Hazzard:But if you're gonna go out in the backcountry for any amount of time, those are definitely a good investment. And again, you you need a subscription. It costs a little bit of money, but it could save your life potentially. So it's worth it for that. The good news is that the iPhones this is an iPhone 15.
Cris Hazzard:The iPhones have had satellite SOS since the iPhone 14 and more and more are gonna get it. I think this fall we're probably gonna see, t mobile, any t mobile customer is gonna have satellite connectivity where they don't have cellular and you'll be able to call SOS from a t mobile phone, not a special phone, just any phone with I think 5 g or LTE. So you might already have that tool in your pocket to be able to call for help from the outdoors. And phones have very powerful GPS's. They they rival, if not better in some cases, you know, a Garmin GPS.
Cris Hazzard:You don't necessarily have to get a Garmin or an outdoors one. You can use your phone if you're casual. When you get the ones like the Garmin inReach satellite communicator and the Garmin GPS is when you want something that's rugged and built for the outdoors. Even though this phone is way stronger, this is the 5th iPhone 15, way stronger than the iPhone 13. I mean, you can kind of drop this.
Cris Hazzard:It doesn't crack as easy as the older phones. When it rains out or when you're tired or, you know, it's not built for the outdoors like a tool for the outdoors, But the garments are the batteries will last a matter of days instead of a day. There's a bunch of advantages. So if you get more into the outdoors and you want the right tool set, you can invest in that. But with your phone, you can do a lot of powerful things and in some ways are gonna be even more powerful than a Garmin GPS, is.
Cris Hazzard:So yeah. A lot of different safety options, but I'd say starting out, use your phone. As you get more into it, get a get a satellite communicator. And if you just want 1, there's an older technology but still very good and very relevant called a PLB, personal locator beacon. And these are miniature versions of what they have on boats like a distress signal from a boat.
Cris Hazzard:So if you're out in the middle of the Atlantic sailing across to Spain or whatever, you could press the button and, you know, coast guard would be dispatched or navy. They make those for people to carry around. You You don't need a subscription for them. You don't have to pay every month, but you just buy it, you register it, and you replace the battery every 5 to 7 years. And you that's a one way beacon.
Cris Hazzard:You just hit the button and somebody comes. I'm talking. But there's a lot of options out there.
Joey Liberatore:Is there any other outdoor tech, maybe that you just think is unique and cool that's emerging or that's here that you might find, you know, useful for, you know, hikers? This this is
Cris Hazzard:a Garmin Epix, Pro. So it's similar to an Apple Watch and let me just say an Apple Watch can do a lot of things for the outdoors. You can do maps and everything. It's just that an Apple Watch is set up for, you know, using your computer. It's not set up for hiking, so you can make it work for hiking.
Cris Hazzard:And if you have one, I wouldn't buy a Garmin to just have a Garmin. But this Garmin watch, it it's not as powerful as an Apple Watch in terms of the apps and everything. But instead what it does is it has a much longer battery life. This lasts for like a week, not like a day or 2 without recharging. And it has maps for the entire continent including trails, points of interests, hospitals, food, police stations, all loaded on here.
Cris Hazzard:So if I go for a hike, I can just look at this and look at the map and see like, if I come to a trail junction, I can see, oh, this is that trail or this is that trail. And I can also plan my hikes beforehand and then just sync them with my phone to this watch. And then I get a nice purple line on the map that says this is where you need to be. And the GPS on here is works just as well as like the general as the bigger ones. Mhmm.
Cris Hazzard:Very powerful multi bands, multi GNSS, all the buzzwords. But this is this is incredible for the outdoors. And also it has the normal fitness tracker stuff like sleep tracking and HRV and resting heart rates, and it has, all the other sports, cycling. If you do, like, you know, if you if you lift weights, you can do weights on here and it'll automatically put your sets in there. It just it's it's set up for athletes in the outdoors and this blows my mind.
Cris Hazzard:And at some point, this will have satellite communicator on board. It's just a matter of time before that happens. And when that happens, you'll be able to have everything in this little package here, that you normally have a few different devices for. Yeah. And, I think that's like the next big breakthrough.
Joey Liberatore:For those again that may not be familiar with your work, you do outdoor tech reviews on your website and you're honest about what's a worthy investment and what's not. Yeah. Are Are you gonna try those new hiking legs that you found? Those robo legs? Yes.
Cris Hazzard:I just had a hiking, if you've just been watching, I just did a hiking news. I do one every month and, I found this Kickstarter project for mechanical legs. It almost I don't know what it looks like. It looks like a climbing harness, but it's supposed to be like the equivalent of an electric bike for your legs. So I I think I am.
Cris Hazzard:Enough people said try it. I I didn't know what I was gonna do. I'll probably just get the most inexpensive one and I'll try not to get laughed at too hard on the trail.
Joey Liberatore:What's been like the most ridiculous thing or feedback that you've gotten from your viewers that they've convinced you to try out whether it's a trail or tech?
Cris Hazzard:I I I haven't really gotten anything that crazy. I I generally, the people who who are with me are are pretty positive and you know every once in a while I'll get some kind of really like like malicious type of comments, but people usually flag those and they get knocked off. That's just the Internet, but I'd say these legs are probably the craziest thing by far. Usually, I'm just testing out like trail runners or GPS units so this is kinda kinda wacky. This
Joey Liberatore:has been awesome. How can people support you and support your channel?
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. So, just go to hikingguy.com. That's my website. I also have a YouTube channel. I think it's forward slash hiking guy.
Cris Hazzard:Not sure. I will maybe put on the screen. Yeah. I'll put on the It's either hiking guy or hiking guy_com. But just go to my there's a link to it on my my on my page.
Cris Hazzard:And as you kind of mentioned earlier, I don't take any sponsorships. I don't do any ads on my videos. I try to stay independent. I'm not sure if I could do that forever, but I try to stay independent. So all the gear that I review and things I talk about, I I just want you to know that it's not biased.
Cris Hazzard:It's not, being paid for by somebody, because I don't there's enough of that out there. I just want you guys to feel confident like this is actually a good hiking shoe and it's not somebody paying me to say it's or paying him to say it's a good hiking shoe. So that's that's an important thing for me.
Joey Liberatore:One final piece of encouragement for people to get out in the trails, those that have never done it and those, you know, that might be more advanced.
Cris Hazzard:Yeah. If you've never done it, I would just say go out and and do it. You know, don't let fear stop you. Just do some basic research. Go to my website.
Cris Hazzard:I have beginners guides there, and, don't overthink it. It's not so complicated. And I'd say for for those of you who are more into it and more advanced, help get other people into it. You know, help help make a difference. It's it can be a very solitary, I was gonna say sport.
Cris Hazzard:It's not a sport. A very solitary activity, to go out there and hike. And I love hiking by myself, but, you know, do what you can to promote the outdoors. Share your love of the outdoors because the more people that we can get out there, the more people we can get appreciating the outdoors. And hopefully, the better off the outdoors will be whether you're a hiker, a hunter, OHV, you know, it's fishing.
Cris Hazzard:It's a lot of different groups who all enjoy the outdoors and it's just as a sidebar sorry. But, as a sidebar, when I look at legislation for the outdoors in the states, a lot of the times it's bipartisan because you have all these different people who have an interest in in protecting this and not, you know, drilling and doing other things. So, you know, don't don't feel boxed into a certain demographic, and you can enjoy the outdoors a lot of different ways. But the important thing is just, you know, do your best to respect it and protect it. Chris, thank you.
Cris Hazzard:Thanks so much, Joey.
Joey Liberatore:Thanks for checking out this edition of the Safe Travels podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. Chris is awesome. His love for the outdoors and his journey with the outdoors is absolutely incredible, and I really admire his passion for educating and helping others get out onto the trail. So I highly encourage you to check out his content.
Joey Liberatore:I'll make sure I link all of his information in the description below. And if you like this type of content, make sure to like, comment, and subscribe wherever you're watching or listening from as it really does help out our channel. So until next time, safe travels.