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Ropes & Gray attorneys provide timely analysis on legal developments, court decisions and changes in legislation and regulations.
Zach Coseglia: Welcome back to the Better Way? podcast, brought to you by R&G Insights Lab. This is a curiosity podcast, where we ask, “There has to be a better way, right?” There just has to be. I’m Zach Coseglia, the co-founder of R&G Insights Lab, and I am joined, as always, by my friend and colleague, Hui Chen. Hi, Hui.
Hui Chen: Hi, Zach. Hello, everyone. I have to say I’m a little bit nervous and excited about the conversation we’re going to have today. We’re going to have a somewhat unusual and personal conversation today. We’re going to be sharing some personal perspectives on a topic that many people are not comfortable talking about at work, and that is our faith.
Zach Coseglia: That’s right. I think some of you may know this: Hui is a Christian—she’s actually an ordained minister. Did I get that right, Hui?
Hui Chen: I would say I “was.”
Zach Coseglia: “Was.” I’m very far from that—I am Jewish. Joining us today is our special guest, Zara Merchant, who is Muslim, and also a compliance professional like us. Welcome, Zara.
Zara Merchant: Thank you both. I’m looking forward to today.
Zach Coseglia: We are, too, our nerves notwithstanding. I want to set the stage a little bit because this is actually a discussion that Hui and I have talked about having for a while, and it’s one that’s been on my mind for a number of years: It’s about ethics and compliance, and even just business decision-making at the intersection of personal faith and religious beliefs. So, we’re going to talk today about how our faith influences our decision-making, but also, I think, what, if anything, we might be able to learn about that business of ethics and compliance from faith and from religious tradition. Right, Hui?
Hui Chen: Yes. I think our conversation will make clear that we are who we are, and if faith is a part of your life, it’s not possible for you to drop that at the door when you go to work, so, we do want to have a candid conversation about that. But I think it’s important to say, from the onset, that—I kept emphasizing that this is “personal”—none of us can speak for our respective faith communities, our respective faith traditions, or for our employers, or anyone else, for that matter. We’re just three persons of faith talking about how our faith impacts who we are and what we do at work. So, I want to make sure that’s clear, that none of us are speaking for anyone but our individual selves.
Zach Coseglia: Absolutely. I think most Jewish people who will be listening to this, they’re going to hear my perspective, including the fact that I’m not entirely sure that I even believe in God, and would be horrified if they thought that I was representing the entire faith. Just to underscore that: It is a very personal discussion, as it should be. So, as always, Zara, you’re going to get the same question that everyone gets, which is we want to get to know you a little bit better, not just your faith and tradition, but also your professional life. Zara, tell us: Who is Zara Merchant?
Zara Merchant: Thank you to both of you. As often is the case when I got out here in the U.S., one of the first things people are curious about is my accent. So, for our listeners, some background to today: I’m born and raised in Australia, in Melbourne. I completed all my education there, including my university degree in finance and law. Growing up, my family and I used to travel a lot, so I was always inspired by places outside of Australia, well-knowing that there was a bigger world out there. And so, when the time came for me to make that leap, New York was on top of the list for me. Once I started off my career in Australia as a lawyer in compliance, after a few years, I moved here in 2018. I’ve been in compliance and investment banking this whole time, and more recently, have been focusing my efforts on technology and compliance regulation.
Hui Chen: Thank you so much, Zara—we’re really very grateful for your joining us in this conversation today. I’m going to start by asking all of us, and starting with you, Zara: What is the role of faith in your life?
Zara Merchant: It’s a central role in my life. I grew up raised in a Muslim household. But I think I grew a stronger connection when I started college, when I entered adulthood, to really understand the principles that I was brought up on, and engage in dialogue, research and reading. As I grew more connected to my faith, I realized that it provides me with a framework of what “good” looks like, a moral compass, and shapes my decisions and lifestyle. A simple example is the concept of “pray and reflection.” It’s something that I use, for example, as a tool to help me navigate stressful situations, and I find comfort in doing that. At the same time, though, it instills a sense of gratitude and humility because it’s a constant reminder of my connection to something greater than myself, and, as a result, making me very God-conscious.
Hui Chen: I think the role of faith in my life has gone through some changes. I grew up Christian, third-generation Christian, and was always very conscious of my faith. I went to a Christian high school. It was always part of my life for a long time—so much so that it ultimately led to me going to a theological seminary, getting a degree as a second-career student, and getting ordained and working in the church. Unfortunately, that experience as a professional clergy led to, at one point, a loss of faith. So, when I left the professional-clergy role, and went back into law, which is actually when I entered compliance, I would say I was a person who deeply questioned her faith. I was at the stage where I wasn’t sure there’s a God. Through some personal experiences, I would say about three to four years ago, I started growing back into my faith. And so, right now, in my current life, I think faith is very important to me, in the sense that I do always want to make my life decisions based on what I believe God intends for me, and that’s something, I think, is even stronger than my earlier-faith period, before the loss-of-faith period. I think, for me, it’s been a bit of an ebb-and-flow, but I’d say, with the exception of about 10 years of my life when I was deeply questioning, faith played a pretty important role in me making sense of the world.
Zach Coseglia: I grew up in a Reform Jewish household: My mother is Jewish, my father converted to Judaism from Catholicism when he married my mother, but my childhood was focused on Judaism—that was the faith in our household. I don’t necessarily know that I would say that faith has or continues to play a huge part in my life, but I do think that many of the Jewish traditions, and many of the things that are part of the Jewish faith, very much do. One of the things that makes me a little bit different from you, Hui, is that I was always deeply aware of my Judaism—not because I went to Jewish schools, but because I didn’t. I grew up in the South, in a community that was largely dominated by—and, in fact, a high school that in some ways felt like it was governed by—the Southern Baptist Church across the street. If you can believe it, going to a large public school in Texas, in the suburbs of Dallas, with more than a thousand kids in my class, being one of maybe three or four Jewish people in the entire school meant that once my brother graduated, it got even smaller. So, my connection to my Judaism, in a lot of ways, is connected to that sort of “otherness” that I felt growing up. That’s changed in my adulthood because I’m surrounded by people of Jewish faith and who have lived in the Jewish tradition. As an adult, while I find myself, Hui, questioning and uncertain, which may be a bit of an understatement, actually, there’s plenty about the Jewish tradition that I very much connect to. I think that’s a lot of what I’ll be sharing today, as we continue the discussion.
Hui Chen: I want to move us from “faith in life” generally to more specifically “faith in the workplace.” I want to ask Zara, to start with, whether you’ve had experiences where your faith has had a significant influence either in your career and/or in your workplace decisions?
Zara Merchant: I think faith has had a huge influence in my day-to-day, and, as a result, I think it feeds into my personal conduct to some extent. Being a woman who wears a hijab, I’m very visibly Muslim. To your earlier point, when I walk out the door to enter the office, I feel privileged that I can come as I am, and so, I don’t leave my faith behind me, it comes with me to work in the way I conduct myself. I think in terms of everyday decisions or just day-to-day business, something that faith has really taught me—and actually, a quality that, in Islam, really attracted me—was the concept of “having good character.” It is actually an integral part of one’s faith and something we’re taught about over and over again. Obviously, “good character” consists of many traits, whether it be honesty, integrity, humility, compassion or fairness. Growing up, I had constantly been told about these principles by default. We try to apply them, and then, as a result, it flows into my work life. One specific example that I think comes to mind is good character involves taking accountability for our actions and fulfilling responsibilities diligently. In our faith, in Islam, there’s a lot of obligations that are placed upon us, whether it be relationship-based, whether it be financial- or spiritual-based, and so, taking this mindset into the workplace, I think I come into work with a very strong sense of accountability and determinacy to complete and act on my commitments, to take ownership of my work, but also, to be comfortable in voicing concerns or raising mistakes, if I were to have them. And as a result, this helps foster a culture of accountability, which, in itself, also is a very strongly advocated principle in the workplace, so in some way, it really goes hand-in-hand.
Zach Coseglia: I think one of the things that I kind of telegraphed being really exciting and interesting about this conversation was the overwhelming overlap in what we each take away from our very different faiths, traditions and backgrounds. It’s funny because, in my insecurity about talking about this conversation, I called my mom, who is a much more devout, practicing Jew than I am. And one of the things that she said to me, which stood out so deeply, given the work that we do in the compliance space, was, “You make your decisions—you have to be responsible for the consequences and you have to be accountable for your actions.” And so, what a wonderful way to just see the obvious overlap between the two faiths.
Hui Chen: It’s so interesting. When I was in my minister days, one of the things I really enjoyed doing was having interfaith and ecumenical dialogues. What I always find is what we’re now saying, which is we have a lot more in common than our differences. Yes, we have differences, absolutely, but we have a lot more in common that is rarely talked about. That commonality is not just these three faiths that are represented in the conversation today, but there are many more other faith traditions in the world that I think also share a lot of these. For me, it’s really a couple of things that people have remarked on my career, and I would attribute those decisions to my faith.
One is people always find it interesting that I’m willing to take certain types of risks in my career, like leaving a perfectly good job at the number-one pharmaceutical company in the world to go cook in Italy, and certainly, the decision to leave a perfectly good legal career to go to a theological seminary. I think when I make those decisions, a huge part of that is my trust in God that these are decisions that I have made after prayerful consideration. And I trust that, as odd as it may seem, as irrational as it may seem to ordinary folks like me, “Somehow this will work out, and this is where I’m meant to be.” I think in that sense, I take a lot of comfort when I make decisions. I don’t make those decisions lightly, but when I make them, I trust that once I’ve done my part in doing my due diligence, it’s going to work out. So, that’s one aspect.
The other aspect is courage. When I was a theological student, we had preaching classes. For one of my preaching exercises, I did a sermon based on a story that would be familiar to people in the Judeo-Christian tradition, which is the Prophet Nathan confronting King David. For those of you who are not familiar, King David was in his heyday, he basically spotted a beautiful woman across the street on the roof taking a bath, and he said, “I want to have her.” So, he had a relationship with her, and then, basically plotted, and succeeded, in having her husband killed. The Prophet Nathan was sent by God to confront King David about this. King David started his life as a small boy-shepherd, so the Prophet Nathan told King David this story about a man with his tiny little ewe lamb that was his only lamb, and someone else, who was a rich folk who had a lot of lambs, a lot of sheep, came and took this poor man’s little lamb. This really enraged King David, and King David said, “Who is this person? Show him to me and I’ll have him pay!” And Prophet Nathan says to King David: “You are the man,” and proceeded to confront him. It was such an interesting story in itself, but in my sermon, I basically made it a story about speaking truth to power and whistleblowing. This is a very central topic to a lot of compliance people. What I find interesting about that story was not only there was the courage part, but there was the skill part, that Prophet Nathan didn’t just go in, blazing and accusing—he found the story that tugged at King David’s heart as someone who grew up to be a boy-shepherd, and he used that skill to win him over, got him to see a different point of view, and then confronted him with it. I remember writing and preaching this sermon, and thinking how I wanted this story to impact the people in the pews. But after I came into my legal career and became a compliance person, in some ways, I feel like I am still doing that sermon, just without explicit reference to “King David” and the “Prophet Nathan.” In all the efforts that I have made, either myself or working with others, to try to encourage people to speak up, to teach people the skills about how to speak up, I almost always think back to that story.
Zach Coseglia: I’ll actually add to that, because once someone has the courage to speak up, share truth with power, what often happens in our world? There’s an investigation. And so, what I think of in this context is the notion that all humans are created in the image of God, which is really, I take to be, a reminder about the sanctity and the dignity of human life, that every human life is valuable, that we are equal, that we’re all beautifully different, unique and complex in our own ways, and that, by valuing human life in this way, and valuing human dignity by rebuffing actions that could embarrass an individual or that may deprive them of their dignity, we’re living that value. I think we see this front-and-center in very simple ways. This is not particularly complex in the way that Jewish Law and teachings intersect with the way that we hope our judicial system works, that how we treat individuals in a courtroom, even if they are accused of a crime that is an affront to someone else’s humanity, we still want to give that person their humanity. I think about it in the context of an investigation. I have worked with some of the most skilled investigators in the world, but I do think that if you do that work long enough, or perhaps if you haven’t done that work long enough, you can become a little bit jaded and a little bit biased in your approach. I think it’s important for us all to remember that every witness and every accused has that presumption of innocence, and they deserve our respect even if they’ve done something wrong, they deserve equitable treatment even if we found that they’ve done something wrong, and remembering that this is a human being who’s sitting on the end of the table, who is on the other end of your investigative report, is important. I feel like, sometimes, we risk losing the humanity of it all in the process and the desire to identify and root-out the misconduct of it all.
Zara Merchant: Totally agree. Touching on our earlier point about the overlap there, Hui, when you talked about the “trust in God” being a big part of the way in which you operate, and it’s helped you make certain decisions, that’s, again, a critical concept that we’re taught and embedded within our practice and faith in Islam as well. So, I strongly related to that whole temperament and mindset as well.
Hui Chen: We had an earlier episode this year that talked about compliance people’s favorite phrase: “Do the right thing.” We really dug into some of the complexities involving, “What is the right thing?” and how that might differ from one person to another, one culture to another. Given our conversation, I have to think for a person of faith, “What is the right thing?” is intricately tied up with their faith. I would love to hear your view, Zara, in terms of how your faith shapes your sense of “What is the right thing?”
Zara Merchant: Faith really helps me at least create a moral compass for “what is the right thing,” so to speak, or what “good,” looks like. In Islam, we learn and read the Quran, which sets out precedent, rules and guidance for us to live our life a certain way, but we’re also supplemented to follow the acts and the principles of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and look at his life as a role model who exemplified a high level of character. And so, these are concepts and principles that we’re constantly taught about, that we constantly hear about, and they’re very practical, applicable solutions day-to-day—it doesn’t matter what you do in your day job, and it doesn’t matter what kind of lifestyle you live.
One story that always resonates with me, particularly being in the industry that I am, was the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), before he embarked on prophethood, one of the key characteristics he had a reputation for was honesty and for being trustworthy. He worked for a big trading company, a big business essentially, where he was a custodian for large amounts of wealth, but he was also known for illustrating trust in business relationships. So, if you bring that to modern-day society and the work that we do—he was a client-facing role and had great rapport-building capabilities—you wrap that all in the notion of being honest and trustworthy. This is a trait that he took on along his prophethood journey, but it’s a principle that, quite frankly, I can apply in my day job. If I can build good relationships with my colleagues, if I can have the respect of them and my surrounding peers, and be known to be trustworthy and honest, well, that’s going to have a big influence in my success and trajectory in my role. And I think that, for me, is what “right” looks like in terms of the way I conduct myself. That’s just one example, but, to your earlier point, I think it really does go hand in hand.
Zach Coseglia: I think one of the things that’s really interesting about the intersection of the conversation that we’ve been having about “do the right thing” and the conversation that we’re having today is that across all of these different faiths, I think, there actually is commonality around what “doing the right thing” looks like. I think that’s one of the reasons why there is this interest or this comfort in using the language, “do the right thing” in the context of business. But it makes me actually wonder: Is the reason why it doesn’t quite work because we’re just talking about three religions here that maybe have some amount of commonality, and there’s a whole lot more out in the world? There’s also a whole lot of people who aren’t people of faith, and that doesn’t mean that that then makes you someone who doesn’t share these ideas of “doing the right thing,” but it just means that there’s just this wonderfully diverse world. It also makes me wonder, though, if the reason why “doing the right thing” maybe doesn’t work as well in the context of business, notwithstanding the commonalities that we’ve discussed here today from a religious and faith perspective, is because lots of folks actually—and I might consider myself to be one of these people—disconnect “business and work” from “faith and religion,” which then leads to a different balancing of what it means to “do the right thing.” I don’t know that I have an answer to that—these are just questions that come to my mind as I think about trying to reconcile the commonality around “doing the right thing” with my instinct to reject it in the business context.
Hui Chen: We spoke earlier about how “we don’t speak for our faith traditions.” My goodness, the Christian community is fractioned into a million pieces—there are the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Catholic Church, the various Protestant denominations, there are people who call themselves “non-denominational” and “evangelical.” If you put together an Eastern Orthodox Christian with a modern evangelical Christian, there are probably a lot more differences among them than what we’re finding among the three of us today. They all supposedly start with the same person, Jesus, and the same book, the Bible. The Bible’s actually a little different across traditions, and that’s a fact that a lot of people don’t realize. I can go into the technology that’s involved in all that definition, which is, in the early Roman times before the binding of books, the sacred texts were in scrolls. There is not a notion that “this scroll belongs with that scroll, in that order” until we had bookbinding and you actually now put things together. And what’s considered the “sacred texts” varies even among the different faith traditions. I think something as simple as the Ten Commandments, you would hear different interpretations, some even based on the translation. Some people would say, “Thou shalt not kill,” and some people would say, “Thou shalt not murder.” “Murder” and “kill” are different. If you believe in “Thou shalt not murder,” you might still believe the death penalty is okay, it’s acceptable, but if you believe in a translation of, “Thou shalt not kill,” then you might more likely consider the death penalty as equally a form of “killing,” and therefore, not tolerable. I also hear a popular phrase, that I’m sure you’ve all heard, which is, “What would Jesus do?” A lot of times, I worry that people say that only when they believe Jesus would do what they’re about to do, and not the other way around. And so, I think just even looking at the same book you can have so many different interpretations. There are people who would look at certain verses of the Bible, and lift them out, and put them above the others, and there are people who would emphasize looking at it as a whole. I think, to me, it really just underscores the complexity of this concept of “doing the right thing.”
Zach Coseglia: We’ve talked on this podcast before, and there’s been a lot of talk in the compliance community over the past number of years, around the benefits, or not, of rules-based compliance versus values-based compliance, and I feel like that very much bubbles up in the conversation that we’re having about religion and faith. One of the things that I feel like defines the spectrum of Judaism is that there are those who have a much more aggressively rules-based approach to the religion, whereas I grew up, as I said, in a Reform household, which, even today, probably is far more liberal than it was even growing up some years ago. So, even in that spectrum, you’ve got some that are taking a more aggressively rules-based approach, and some that are not as focused on certain rules, but yet sharing many of those values. Similarly, I think that we see in the evolution of all religions over time, movement away from certain of the rules by either interpretation or by evolution of thinking on certain elements as they apply to our modern world. And so, I’m interested in your thoughts around this balance between “rules” and “values,” which is very much a conversation that applies to religion but is something that we’ve been grappling with as a profession, too.
Zara Merchant: I think in the workplace, or as we manage compliance, there’s a place for both. And I think there’s value in value-based rules and concepts, but also, rules-based or set regulations, whatever that may be. I think, finally, it comes down to the risk we’re trying to manage, the topic of consideration, and the guardrails that we’re trying to implement here. Some cases, I think, having your black-and-white rules and knowing what’s right and wrong—and I say that, obviously, subjectively—helps manage the business. Whereas there are certain concepts where we need more flexibility and need some more autonomy, I think that’s where a value-based approach may be better-suited. I personally actually had never thought about it in that way, so thank you for bringing that up from a professional point of view.
On the faith-based, similar to what you’ve commented on in Judaism, definitely in Islam you see different spectrums and different pockets of practice and adoption of faith, whether it be rules-based, values-based or maybe cultural-based. Islam is also a very diverse faith, and so, several cultures feed into it as well. You have that extra nuance of, “This might be a faith-based principle. Is this a culture-based principle?” And then, you have the realm of just fundamentally there’s no compulsion in religion, so it really comes down to whether you want to do it or not, despite what’s stated in the scripts or what you’re preached to. I actually pay a lot of focus on that notion that no one can force you to do or practice your faith—it really is a very personal and deep decision to make, and however people want to practice that, do what works for you.
Hui Chen: What keeps coming to my mind is that in the Christian tradition, if you look at the Christian Gospels, Jesus was constantly being accused, by the scribes and Pharisees of his day, as a rule-breaker. He and his disciples were constantly accused of breaking the rules for Sabbath, for example, healing and eating on the Sabbath. And his response was always that, “I put the suffering of humans first,” and that, “Rules are made for humans, and not the other way around.” So, I would say, certainly, my interpretation and how I think of my faith tradition is much more values-based. This comes to my own bias, which is, I think, rules are very difficult to set in the complex world today. You can give any rule, and someone can probably give you at least one, if not multiple, exceptions to the rule. That makes rules-based regimes difficult, because you would have to have so many rules to cover so many situations that people can’t remember all the many rules. I find the parallel of the “rule versus value” in the compliance world versus in the religion a particularly interesting point of view that I had not thought about before.
Do you guys think there are ways that the ethics and compliance profession can appropriately tap into people’s faith as a force for good in what we try to do in the corporate space? Any thoughts on that, Zara?
Zara Merchant: I think there’s definitely some potential opportunities. I think we’re pretty far from that notion, in reality. What you see probably more now is a lot of dialogue and awareness—I think that’s really key here. We see that firms have a lot more focus on DE&I initiatives, which is helpful. But, yes, potentially there is an opportunity, in the long term, to explore this intersection of faith and shared values, and how that could be adopted to the workplace, and, as a result, potentially impact conduct and behaviors as well.
Zach Coseglia: I think it’s tough, to be honest, because of how diverse most companies are. And, frankly, for the very reasons that we were all nervous about having this conversation, how potentially polarizing it can be, even as we’ve all shown, I think, through this conversation, that it doesn’t have to be, and that there actually is quite a lot of commonality. I think that what folks can take away from it is what you’ve already shared, Hui, which is when we’re talking about something like ethics and compliance, that lives in a wonderfully complex gray area, that isn’t necessarily defined by clearly delineated “right and wrong” or “good and bad,” we have to lean into that complexity. Just as religion, just as politics, just as geopolitical realities are complex, we have to be aware of the complexity of what we’re trying to do. And I think sometimes, we’ve seen programs that have not been as successful as they could be because they presumed commonality and a shared values system where maybe commonality and a shared values system didn’t exist. So, do I think that there’s really a place—an obvious place, an easy place—for faith to influence our compliance programs? No. But do I think that complexity needs to be at the forefront of our decision-making when it comes to compliance? 100%. And, for me, that’s the big takeaway.
Hui Chen: I think I would add to that to say that whenever we’re really trying to help guide employees in their decision-making, we are appealing to a lot of things in their background that we don’t know about. We don’t know how each of our employees have grown up, what their family values are, what their personal backgrounds are, yet we’re assuming there is something in there that’s common enough for us to appeal to. And, to me, simply being cognizant that faith might be one of those factors is helpful to think about, as we try to empower people to make the right decision, drawing on whatever resources that they have to them, being mindful that for some people that faith is one of those sources, and for some of them it’s a very important, defining source. I think being cognizant of that is maybe the first step—it may be the only step, but certainly your first step.
Well, that was certainly not like any other discussion we’ve had on this podcast. But we still need to get to know Zara.
Zach Coseglia: At the end of every episode, Zara, we ask our standard Better Way? Questionnaire, which is influenced by the Proust Questionnaire and Inside the Actors Studio’s Questionnaire. So, we’re going to ask you a series of questions.
Hui Chen: Zara, the first question for you is a question that you can choose one of two, so you can choose to answer either question. The two questions are: a) If you could wake up tomorrow having gained any one quality or ability, what would it be? Or: b) Is there a quality about yourself you’re currently working to improve? If so, what?
Zara Merchant: If I could gain a quality, I think it would be teleportation, mostly because I have a lot of family and friends around the world, so it would be great to cut down that commute.
Zach Coseglia: I love that. Alright, question number two is a choose one of two again: a) Who is your favorite mentor? Or: b) Who do you wish you could be mentored by?
Zara Merchant: To be honest, it’d probably be my mother. She’s a woman of many great qualities that I admire, one of my biggest cheerleaders, but also knows how to challenge me and calls me out when I’m wrong. I think we always need someone to help us to keep grounded.
Hui Chen: That’s wonderful. Next question is: What is the best job, paid or unpaid, that you have ever had?
Zara Merchant: Unpaid: Probably it was basketball coaching back in my college days. I played basketball my whole life, actually, until probably my college years. I started very young. I also coached on the weekends.
Zach Coseglia: That’s great. The fourth question is: What is your favorite thing to do?
Zara Merchant: I think high-level would be exploring new places, and what that means and looks like probably changes depending on the phase of my life. But right now, my husband and I, we moved to Philadelphia a couple of years ago and the coffee culture here is great, so the Aussie in me gets excited by that. We tend to explore a new coffee shop each weekend together.
Hui Chen: Next question is: What is your favorite place?
Zara Merchant: Home: Wherever that may be or look like, it’s just a place of comfort and, I think, safe retreat.
Zach Coseglia: For sure. What makes you proud?
Zara Merchant: Seeing my loved ones succeed. I think there’s something very rewarding seeing someone who you’re close to, who you’ve mentored, who’s a big part of your life, that you’ve seen grow, and then seeing them follow through with their dreams and desires. It’s really comforting.
Hui Chen: From the profound to the mundane: What email signoff do you use most frequently?
Zara Merchant: In Australia, I used to say, “Cheers” a lot. In hindsight, it’s not very formal, and, quite frankly, no one says it here. So, when I moved to the States, it’s probably now, “Thanks.”
Zach Coseglia: We share that. The next question is a sometimes controversial one: What trend in your field is most overrated?
Zara Merchant: I think working all five days in the office is a little overrated. I do think there’s merit in working some days in the office, but, I think, post-COVID, we’ve come to a realization, hopefully, that incorporating flexibility and a hybrid working schedule does have a lot of value and doesn’t impact productivity in a negative way in which we may have initially thought. So, I know that’s a controversial topic, but there we go.
Zach Coseglia: I think it’s a controversial topic, but I don’t think your answer is very controversial to most of our listeners.
Hui Chen: Yes—I think you’ll find a lot of resonance. What word would you use to describe your day so far?
Zara Merchant: “Versatile”? I’ve been jumping from different meetings, back-to-back on different topics, so there we are.
Hui Chen: Zara, you’re involved with an organization called Muppies. Tell us about that organization, what it does, and your role in it.
Zara Merchant: Muppies is a U.S.-based not-for-profit organization fundamentally committed to connecting and empowering Muslim professionals. So, it’s not really a religious-based organization, but united by a shared identity. And, personally, I’m on the global board of directors—specifically, the director of corporate partnerships. I joined Muppies, actually, very early on, when I moved to New York. It acted as a means to me to create community in a city where I literally knew no one. It was an amazing opportunity to meet like-minded individuals who are doing some amazing work in their field.
Zach Coseglia: Well, Zara, that’s the last question. Thank you so much for joining us and for sharing your perspective.
Zara Merchant: Absolutely. Thank you both for having me—I’ve really enjoyed being here. And thank you for creating this space and platform for having these sorts of conversations.
Zach Coseglia: Thank you all for tuning in to the Better Way? podcast and exploring all of these Better Ways with us. For more information about this or anything else that’s happening with R&G Insights Lab, please visit our website at www.ropesgray.com/rginsightslab. You can also subscribe to this series wherever you regularly listen to podcasts, including on Apple and Spotify. And, if you have thoughts about what we talked about today, the work the Lab does, or just have ideas for Better Ways we should explore, please don’t hesitate to reach out—we’d love to hear from you. Thanks again for listening.