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Rad Chat is a forward-thinking global knowledge hub where healthcare professionals can advance their knowledge and expertise in radiotherapy and oncology by utilising the award winning, first therapeutic radiographer led oncology podcast and social media channels.
We're empowering healthcare professionals worldwide by providing free, CPD-accredited radiotherapy and oncology education, by sharing real-world experience, expert insights, best practice and patient perspectives, we're helping healthcare professionals’ advance cancer care and improve patient outcomes.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome to Rad Chat, founded by me, Jo McNamara.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:04)
And me, Naman Julka-Anderson. Rad Chat is a forward-thinking global knowledge hub where healthcare professionals can advance their expertise in therapeutic radiography and oncology. Unlike traditional academic resources, we blend real-world experience, expert insights, best practice, and patient perspectives.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:21)
We make advanced knowledge engaging and accessible, supporting continuous learning and professional development without compromising patient care or your personal time by providing insights into both technical skills and career development, helping you to progress confidently in your field and shape your professional future.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:38)
Just to let you know, our episodes may contain sensitive and difficult topics that you might find distressing or triggering. Please consider checking out another episode.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:46)
So this is episode 198, which is part of the Living With and Beyond series, where we're going to be hearing from our amazing guest, Juliet Uzoma talking about her experience of breast cancer. So welcome to Rad Chat, Juliet.
Juliet (00:59)
Thank you. Thank you for having me here. I really appreciate it.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (01:02)
no it's an absolute pleasure and
tell us whereabouts in the world are you today?
Juliet (01:08)
I'm currently in Africa, in Nigeria, so I came here for my book and I'm having a good time with family as well.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (01:17)
Amazing. So, Juliet, for anyone who's listening, who hasn't heard of you before, introduce yourself for us. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Juliet (01:25)
Hey, great, where do I start? Well, I'm Juliet Uzoma
stage 3c breast cancer survivor and I was diagnosed at the age of 34 and at the time I had two beautiful girls there were three in one and we just you know it was a difficult period for me because at the time you know as an African woman the first thing you know you think about is that sentence once you hear the word cancer it automatically
you know, blows out death. So I immediately felt that this was a death sentence and two young girls, what am I supposed to do? And of course immediately I was angry with God. Bye!
Ah It was something I needed to get acquainted with. with that, you know, my background stems from the media industry, from Nigeria, that's where I started, from, you know, the Nollywood movie industry. Then I moved over to the United States and, of course, with the breast cancer diagnosis, immediately shifted gears to the healthcare, being an advocate, being a voice for so many women, and also using a little bit of my background to tell stories,
of other people in the world so I can breach the gap between the African world and the Western world as well.
Naman Julka-Anderson (02:56)
You talked about saying it was a death sentence, Juliet. Is that a view from your cultural background? Is there anything that's been done within Africa to try and dispel some of that as a myth?
Juliet (03:07)
There's a cultural stigma that ties around cancer. There's that lack of hope. Because the minute people hear that you have breast cancer, automatically people think that you're going to die. So a lot of times people don't have that support that is needed because you're already termed a death.
situation so it's generally considered a death sentence. ⁓ But I was diagnosed in the United States so it was a lot different. There was that support.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (03:44)
We definitely observed that, Juliet. We spent some time in Uganda. And I think because cancer care is not accessible to everyone, you can really see why that view is perceived because a lot of people within their own little communities would be diagnosed with cancer and unfortunately wouldn't be able to afford to access treatment or even have accessibility to a cancer center. So you can kind of see where those
Juliet (04:00)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (04:12)
of opinions come from, can't you, in terms of kind of the cultural difference?
Juliet (04:16)
Yeah, this lack of access, you know, and for... ⁓
The regular woman, man, going through this, you pretty much have a family to feed, you have you to take care of. How do you afford the thousands of naira that is equated to the treatment? And of course, we don't have the medical health insurance that can actually assist or financial assistance to help these people. So typically, it is a dead sentence.
Naman Julka-Anderson (04:53)
What treatment did you have Juliet?
Juliet (04:55)
I went through chemotherapy and radiation, of course I had a mastectomy, single left side mastectomy and a reconstruction as well.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (05:05)
It always seems really easy, doesn't it, to just list it off? But I'm sure there was a lot more to it. How did you cope with that treatment journey?
Juliet (05:13)
I didn't think he was, but ⁓ it's okay. Having to hear that word and going through biopsy, because that was the first thing I had to go through ⁓ to determine if he was cancerous or not. ⁓ One of the first things, because he was a stage 3C, my doctor... ⁓
immediately requested that I have a single mastectomy, which of course, and I want to believe that this is a global thing, ⁓ but as an African woman, to have your breasts taken off is like taking a piece of you away, taking your womanhood away. It was difficult.
But my mindset at the time, not only the difficulty, I just wanted both, immediately asked if I could have both taken off because I had two kids. I wanted to do everything I could to survive. It wasn't an easy decision, but it was one that I had to do or make for my girls. So it was difficult for the mastectomy. And then you think about how people view you, know, people are going to know that I had
the left side of my breast taken off, I'm not going to be looked at as a whole woman, which is a perception, right? Right after that, you know, immediately went into...
I started with chemotherapy, you know, because that was the process. Then my oncologist, a wonderful group of medical professionals that I worked with, walked me through, because one of the first things I asked my oncologist, am I going to die? And then he said to me, not if you work with me. And I think that gave me a little bit of hope that, you know, if I was a good student.
Maybe I could just survive it. it was just a little glimpse of light for me. So I went through chemotherapy, which was difficult. The first day I had the first dose.
I literally I was bragging I said, it's not that bad I mean people talk about chemotherapy it's really not that bad but a few hours after I got home it was a whole different story. It was a lot of me and then the hair loss because I being in the media industry and also having a little bit of a modeling background.
you idolise your hair, that physical stuff. ⁓ So having to get in the shower and just feel my hair falling off was... oof.
It was difficult. But it had to happen. And for me, think looking at my daughters who were three and one, I just had to just get the courage to keep going, keep pushing. And then right after the chemotherapy,
I immediately started radiation. But there had to be a hard stop during radiation because it affected my oesophagus. I couldn't eat, couldn't drink. ⁓ Then I was also put into chemo brain because I was ⁓ affiliated with a medical college. So they had ⁓ clinical trials,
which I wasn't forced to. I opted to be ⁓ a guinea pig because I needed to know why so young and why it was really heavy in my continent. A lot of young women at the time. So I did that and of course I went through memory loss. The difficult part was having to look at my girls.
Sometimes I would ask my mother who was very, you know, supportive at the time who flew all the way from Africa to the United States to, you know, be there for me. I would ask who they were. It was tough.
star.
Naman Julka-Anderson (09:45)
Thank you for sharing. It's obviously a lot to go through, especially with such young children. When you talked about your hair loss, Juliet, did they talk through anything like scalp cooling or how your hair might be different when it grows back afterwards?
Juliet (09:59)
Yes, they did. But I think at the time there was just too many traffic. There was just so much to process, so much to go through that I could only grab what I could.
And I have to add that before I met my oncologist that I went through the treatment process with, I had met with a ⁓ different oncologist.
All I heard him say was, you have a stage 3C. ⁓ This is going to be a difficult one. don't know if we're going to... All I heard was death. And I remember getting up from that office and I walked away. said, no, if I stick with you, I'm going to die. But then I requested for a second opinion. So yes, they did. I just...
at the time didn't pay a lot of attention I just was focused on surviving.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (11:03)
I think that's what lot of patients
actually talk about, the fact that there's so much information to take on board, as well as dealing with the emotional impact of having a cancer diagnosis. You're of, you're told and then you're given lots of leaflets, lots of information, lots of suggestions of things you can do. And sometimes I think, you know, it's overwhelming at the best of times, but you know, after...
of shutting everything out just hearing those words it must be really difficult. Juliet talk us a little bit about kind of how you're doing now that some time has passed how are you coping with the long-term side effects of cancer treatment?
Juliet (11:42)
At first, it was my oncologists to let me know the side effects I was going to get from Lupron, Tamoxifen, all of those medications, which was the tinglings and the muscle pool because I would wake up in the middle of the night screaming and of course ⁓ today it's a lot.
Easier to cope with because I think I've become best friends with the after effects, ⁓ hot flashes. I still do have the hot flashes a lot. So ⁓ I'm doing a lot better than I was.
Naman Julka-Anderson (12:33)
Juliet, so you talked about how they'd explain the side effects that you were going to experience. So some of the work that I've been involved in and we are now through Rad Chat is around skin tone assessment. So I'm brown skinned, my skin goes very different to someone with white skin. What was the advice given to you for your skin tone for any chemotherapy related changes or any radiation therapy related changes?
Juliet (12:55)
Not much. terms of the changes I got from chemo were the darkening of my nails which was extremely embarrassing because I would wear gloves sometimes. My skin...
really didn't change as much. The skin tone didn't change. It was just more of the nails turning really black.
And of course it was difficult to go out and hand somebody something or try to buy something without people looking at you weird. And it's extremely funny wearing gloves in the middle of summer. ⁓ But I didn't have a lot of skin tone changes.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (13:58)
So Juliet, you obviously utilise social media quite a lot now to kind of help share your experience but also give other people a vehicle to share that experience. What's some of the things you've learnt from hearing other people's that kind of have stuck with you?
Juliet (14:15)
Before the social media space, I was of a tune to...
work with women in the community. That's where it all started with Nurses Affecting Change, which was the organisation that actually did help me financially to finance my ⁓ chemotherapy and radiation. So right after treatment, I chose to work with them, volunteer with them into the community. It was a lot of mixed feelings, know, especially in the African community and churches. When I would go to
share my story, to empower other people. There were some positive and there were more negative feedbacks than positive in my community because then people, you know...
Like I said, this is something that is looked upon as a death sentence. And then when you talk about it, you have, you know, I've had times when people would say, you know what, I don't want to hear it. I really don't want this disease on me. So it felt like I was infectious or I had some bad omen, you know, around me, which, you know, it's, it was difficult at times. There were times I wanted to stop.
But I remember when during the diagnosis and the news ⁓ I had a deal with God. I said, me a second chance. And I would pay it forward. So with the negative feedbacks, I chose to tune those out. And I just kept going.
Then going into the social media space, ⁓ I learned that there were a lot of women who needed people such as myself to share my story so they could actually ⁓ live on that hope because it did help them. One, be able to visit the doctors, the medical facilities, ⁓ actually.
Basically be a part of the treatment. Because in the African culture, a lot of times we equate this kind of sickness to, I'm just going to pray and believe that the miracle comes. But my story, with my story, I empower women to let them know that as much as we believe in God and our religious spaces, the medical professionals
are also godsend, so to say, because with their professional, ⁓ their professional background, they're able to help people such as us to break through that and be able to help us, you know, just live another day, pretty much. ⁓
Naman Julka-Anderson (17:20)
It's very nice that you talk very openly about your spirituality. I find that, I don't know maybe if it's a cultural thing, but a lot of the patients that I've seen, they might only find their spirituality whether that is through God or religion or through something else once they've had their cancer diagnosis, but it sounds like it's something that you've kept for quite a long time and you're still using and harnessing to continue your work if that makes sense. How do you find other people
Juliet (17:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Naman Julka-Anderson (17:47)
who maybe have lost faith due to a cancer diagnosis. How do you manage that conversation?
Juliet (17:52)
Okay, so, you know, first of all, you know, once you're diagnosed, one of the first things, like I mentioned earlier, I had a fight with God. So it was easy to lose your faith, you know, and just, because one of the questions I asked God was, you know, I did everything right. Why me? But the question is, why not me?
So when we talk about religion, I try to share with a lot of women who seem to have lost faith or somewhat hope, I try to let them understand that, you know, for me, ⁓ sometimes I could, I'm one of those people that just, ⁓ I'm trying to find the right word.
I could very ignorant as certain things and so I felt like having gone through the diagnosis of breast cancer and being an advocate I was, was, way I tell the story is that God chose me to do this work because if I hadn't gone through it I can almost guarantee you that I wouldn't put in the
work that I have, that I put in today, ⁓ simply because, you know, I would tell myself, well, I would pray for you and I'd just move on. So for those who have lost faith, I try to, first of all, hold their hands, you know, because it's not about the religion. It's about hope. And for me, my faith was also part of my hope.
So I think for the most part it was just holding their hands and just listening, being present for them. And then just go wherever they choose to go, either way, and just be there, that's support.
Naman Julka-Anderson (19:57)
For those people who are skeptical of, I suppose, science and treatment, so obviously we see this quite a lot within our clinics, I guess. There are people from certain backgrounds who don't trust healthcare, don't trust clinical trials. How do you navigate that conversation around this? Because obviously you talked about going into a clinical trial as well, which again, are lots of people from...
African, Caribbean, black communities are very distrustful of clinical trials and we have problems all across the world with very low uptake of people of colour in clinical trials and actually then the data set is always skewed towards one population, mainly white people, so we don't actually know the full outcomes. How do you navigate this?
Juliet (20:34)
Well, one of the first things I tell people, especially the women diagnosed or the men diagnosed,
How, you know, how bad can it get, right? ⁓ Is it better to know or not to know? And so the first things I share with them is having gone through clinical trials, you know, what we're doing is not about us anymore.
You're basically creating a space for those of them that have families, children. You're trying to create a platform for them to be better informed. So ⁓ for those that tell me, which I have had quite a few that have mentioned to me, I don't believe in those ⁓ treatments. And again, for the African...
people it's more of I'm just going to go to church and I tell them I did combine church with treatment. I'm standing here today as a symbol of hope. You know so I think you need to give it a chance be able to
live for another day for your kids, your family. And a lot of times, you know, it's not something that you force upon someone. It's just something you share with them, share your story and give them the chance to process and the room to come back and say, Hey, I want to
I want to do this. And it has really happened a lot of times when I sit down. Because a lot of times men and women can relate to someone who has been through it than someone who has not. So the great things my oncologist, my doctors did was to send me out to a lot of these patients, to their homes, sitting down, talking to them, know, give them.
that uplifting hope to actually go for it. And it's really worked.
Naman Julka-Anderson (22:49)
I think one thing I see with people who are skeptical of treatment and maybe they'll be diagnosed, they'll have symptoms, they'll say actually I don't want to have treatment, I want to delay. The examples that always stick in my head are then they'll come back a few months later, unfortunately the disease has advanced to a point where it's treatable but not curable or end of life. And I think that's the regret is then I wish we'd listened to you. I think it's nice of the way you've put it is that you can still have hope, you can still have faith, you can still do you know...
practice your religion, but you can also still accept the science that could hopefully cure you or treat the symptoms.
Juliet (23:24)
Yeah, I had ⁓ a woman who was from Sierra Long and I think after my treatment I would come back.
It first started with every three months of mammogram, screening and all of that. right after treatment, I started my organisation and then I would do a fashion for the cure. And that basically was to bring beauty back. In however way, bald, however way you chose to bring your beauty back, I did that.
events such as Fashion for the Cure. And I remember going back to the hospital to share free tickets to cancer patients. And I heard this lady behind me, she had such a thick African accent. So I turned and said, what part of Africa are you from? And she said to me, Sierra Leone, why? Because we have that little bit of arrogance in us. And I said, well, I wanted to just give you a free ticket to my
event. I'd love for you to be there as a fashion show. And she looked at it, she looked at my name. She said, you're the Juliet? Apparently my oncologist had told her about me. She thought I was a myth. She thought my oncologist only said that to, you know, get her into the clinic.
I said, no, I do exist. I'm human. So I am the Juliet. So we hugged. know, there was just that bonding there as you're African, African, Juliet does exist. So we had that connection and she said, well, you don't look like you had cancer. I'm like, it's not written on our foreheads, but I did go through it, you know, and I come every day. We talked about my treatment process, the chemo, the radiation.
And she said, but you're so beautiful. said, and you are too. And I said, sometimes what I tell women and men is look more beautiful than those that never had cancer. You have to live for the moment. And I think that gave her a different outlook.
So my oncologist reached out to me and said, thank you. I don't know what you told Olive, but she comes here all bright with makeup and looking good. said, well, that's the whole idea. And so, yeah, that was one great example. But also when I first started treatment, I was also referred to a psychologist to kind of help me. But once again, as an African woman,
The first day I met with her I said, what's she gonna do for me? She can't do anything for me. So I had that wall, a big wall. And she said, do you wanna talk about anything? I said, no, nothing. I was fighting with someone who did nothing to me. Because I was fighting with myself. And...
She was so gracious to let me, know, cause I said I had nothing to tell her and she said, okay, go ahead. You know, if you want to end the session, that's okay. But if you do want to come back, just know that the door is open. I left a few, about a month. I had so much, know, like my heart was filled with pain and anger so much. needed an outlet.
And she was the first person I thought of. So I walked in there. And before she said a word, I just wrote a whole book verbally and just let it all out. And it felt great. It felt good. Just seeing that I was able to not.
You know go through the pain alone I had someone who was there to listen to me and actually you know knowing that I had a background in theater arts she had referred me to another theater director which is a great outlet for me because that was where I found peace, happiness, being on stage performing and it was great, it was great.
So I took those, I copied those.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (27:51)
I love that Juliet. I can just imagine the myth, the legend that is Juliet does exist there in clinic. No, honestly, some of the things you're talking about are so insightful because, you know, we, sometimes see patients who are having these internal monologues, but as radiation therapists, therapeutic radiographers, we aren't privy to that.
and you almost feel like you get to see the exterior of someone and you think you kind of superficially get to know them and you know there's stuff going on but hearing it through your words is really insightful just to kind of go yeah we we knew that we knew there was there was things that potentially that patient needed to talk about or potentially you know around spirituality or religion you know we know those things exist but we aren't always necessarily
privy to them so it's really lovely to hear kind of that thought process.
Juliet (28:47)
Thank you.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (28:55)
Juliet tell me about Courage to Dare project.
Juliet (28:58)
Courage to Dare was another baby at birth and the whole mission for Courage to Dare was to create educational resources, know, to bring ⁓ resources to Africa and having been, you know, lucky to have ⁓
worked with great organisations such as
Nurses Affect and Change, American Cancer Society, and great people that I met during that process, they stood as giants, know, I was just this little fly on giants that provided resources for me to travel back home and share with a lot of clinics, churches, schools, because I did visit a lot of high schools, middle schools, colleges. And so those resources.
were very helpful to them. So Courage To Dare really did create a platform to allow women to speak up, you know. And I think just the fact that a lot of men and women saw me talking about, comfortably talking about mastectomy, single mastectomy, reconstruction, I think it gave them hope. And for me, that one of those... ⁓
I got my hope from so many, I said, the therapists, everyone. But I think the boldness to walk around with my bald head came from watching, I think, Robin Roberts from Good Morning America, you know, and she, when she first stepped on the stage and took the wig off.
And she looked more beautiful than the wig she had on her hair. And I I can do this. I can do this. I think when I started, when I created Courage To Dare I brought about the fashion show and it was great to see this women with beautiful outfits, bald head, you know. ⁓ It wasn't mandatory if you can. If not, that's fine. But you know, that's what Courage To Dare just created that,
platform for women too and men as well you know with their masculinity it was easy for them to say yes I went through it I'm not ashamed of it it doesn't make me less of a man and for women it doesn't you know as a matter of fact you can be more beautiful I think Kimo made me a little younger than I was
⁓ So yes.
Naman Julka-Anderson (31:45)
When you go into high schools, Juliet, how is the reception from the young people when they do hear?
Juliet (31:52)
You know, I think they have a lot of questions. When I go to high schools, the boys and girls in Africa, in the US, they have questions. You know, what do you do? How do you check? And I would, for the girls, I would tell them about their periods, you know, their monthlies, when to check.
days before, days after. They're inquisitive. And that's when you notice something that...
suspicious that you're not sure, for unsure, reach out to your parents, call the doctors. You know, your first instinct, you you should go with that first. So that I also taught my children. I, unfortunately, I don't have the name of the book right on top. You know, I had this wonderful oncologist that wrote a book about breast cancer, but she wrote it for young kids.
And the story was this...
Boogeyman Attacking Mommy's Boobs. And I think those were the books I read for my daughters to even understand cancer. And so it was easy for me to share those books in middle schools and sometimes in high schools as well. Because I know my daughter was very, my oldest daughter was very inquisitive. I remember her saying to me one time,
I think I had just gone through chemo and she said to me, can we go outside and play? I was so tired and I just wanted to not do anything, just be by myself. And she said, I'm so sorry I made this happen to you. I said, no, no darling, you didn't do anything. And I think with just those...
those words I had I don't know where I got the energy I said come on let's go let's go play you know and I had to let her know that this was the boogie man that attacked mommy's boobs it had nothing to do with you are we gonna get them so yeah
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (34:03)
You've got love kids and the things they come out with. them. So Juliet, you wrote a book. Tell us about that.
Juliet (34:06)
Yes.
Ugh.
Flowers of Courage, my journey through breast cancer from weakness to power. ⁓ In so many ways, more of sharing my legacy with the world. The journey that I had to go through because I felt it was time to let the world know who Juliet was.
Because a lot of times, you know, when people see me, it's hard to connect that to breast cancer and the journey. ⁓ I felt that sharing my journey would let other men and women understand the stages I had to go through. ⁓ It wasn't all rosy. You know, there was this societal moment. ⁓
There was the hope again, was lack of faith sometimes and ⁓ almost losing hope even though I had the support. There was still that struggle.
And so I felt that the world needed to hear my story. And for the most part, I shared what I felt would help another person get through their struggle. So from weakness was when I had to sit back and watch the diagnosis of cancer take a different shape.
and power is holding on to my faith. ⁓
hope and the need to stand strong and bold through all the pain.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:15)
So Juliet, we could probably talk for most of the evening about you and your experiences, but we are coming to the end of the podcast and we always finish Rad Chat podcast episodes with top tips. So do you have any top tips for the listeners?
Juliet (36:28)
Never give up.
It's one day at a time. It's never, it's not the end of your story.
one day at a time.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:38)
Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Juliet. It's been an amazing podcast episode. Thank you all for listening to Rad Chat with me, Jo McNamara and my co-host, Naman Julka-Anderson.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:48)
Our next guest to feature will be Mandy Geyman as part of our living with and beyond cancer series talking about her experience of cancer during pregnancy. Thank you for listening and take care.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:59)
So what do you do now? Well you can use this episode as part of our free continual professional development accredited content which offers flexible learning that fits your busy schedule. Just check out the show notes for the reflective questions, links to literature and resources and link to the completed form to receive your accredited certificate.
Naman Julka-Anderson (37:18)
Stay up to date with the latest radiotherapy and oncology advancements by liking and following us on social media and hitting subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (37:28)
Please do join our supportive community designed by professionals who understand the unique challenges of working within radiotherapy and oncology. Follow us across all of our social media channels and make sure to check out our website www.radchat.co.uk. Together we're actively working to improve our profession and make a lasting positive impact on cancer care.
Naman Julka-Anderson (37:51)
It goes without saying that we can't achieve this alone. It takes all of us working together to create real change. That's why we value every voice and every contribution. We ask that you listen and learn and spread the word, share your story with us and connect with us.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (38:01)
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