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NWA Founders is a voice for Founders, Owners, and Builders driving growth in Northwest Arkansas, and is hosted by Cameron Clark and Nick Beyer.
'NWA Founders' is a voice for Founders, Owners, and Builders driving growth in Northwest Arkansas, hosted by Cameron Clark and Nick Beyer.
To recommend a guest or ask questions, reach out at nwafounders@gmail.com and follow us on YouTube and LinkedIn for video content.
[00:00:00] Charley Boyce: I think in our space to do one thing incredibly well, you need to focus private equity.
[00:00:07] Nick Beyer: Rollups. How did you compete
[00:00:08] Charley Boyce: against them? So I can go deep on this one. Consolidation has been very big in our industry, right? Like if you think about northwest Arkansas, there's Pascal, there are other players out there.
They're all PE backs, like nobody's locally owned anymore.
[00:00:18] Cameron Clark: Businesses at what you're calling an inflection point, what's the now focus? You have
[00:00:22] Charley Boyce: commercial guys, you have residential service replacement guys, you have residential or multi-family, new construction guys, and those that do it incredibly well only focus on one thing.
So talk about the operational excellence piece. What does that mean to you? We don't have this outcome that we say, this is what success looks like for us. Why don't you focus
[00:00:40] Nick Beyer: on outcomes?
[00:00:41] Charley Boyce: Yeah, great question.
[00:00:54] Cameron Clark: Charlie voice, thanks for coming on. Yeah. Uh, with Pascal, not just heat and air, what are all the services y'all offer? [00:01:00]
[00:01:00] Charley Boyce: So, air, plumbing, and electric.
[00:01:01] Cameron Clark: Okay.
[00:01:02] Charley Boyce: Yep.
[00:01:02] Cameron Clark: And give, so give us kind of a background here. We're in your facility here in Tawny Town. Springdale. And y'all been here since 2017, you're saying?
[00:01:11] Charley Boyce: Yeah. Um, yeah. Built a building in 17, moved in December of 17. So yeah, I've been here since then.
[00:01:16] Cameron Clark: Cool. And you grew up in the business? It was like day one.
[00:01:19] Charley Boyce: Yeah. I mean, third generation in the trades. So from, from Tulsa, Oklahoma, originally my grandfather started a company over there, uh, that my dad owned and operated for, you know, 30 years plus or minus.
Um, so yeah, grew, grew up in the trades. Got here in 2001 to go to school here. Um, and then, you know, whenever I was done with school, just decided to stay here, make Northwest Arkansas, my home. Um, so yeah, I've been here ever since and found my way to Pascal in 2010. Acquired the company in, in 2012, and then we've been growing it ever
[00:01:47] Cameron Clark: since.
And so when you, so coming outta college, you're playing baseball, and then what, what is, uh, like, did you know you wanted to get, stay in the, like trade blue collar space? Uh, was that [00:02:00] like a direction you wanted to go?
[00:02:01] Charley Boyce: Yeah, not really. Um, I would like to think that I was a little bit more deliberate, but I, I really wasn't.
Uh, so whenever I was done with school, um, I didn't really know what I was gonna go do. I wasn't, wasn't quite sure. Um, and it's something that you're not ready for in that, you know, you, uh, so basically growing up in the family business, um, I knew that, I knew discipline, I knew work ethic. I knew blue collar.
I mean, that's how I was, I was raised, um, and I knew baseball. Those are more or less the, yeah, the two things that I, I knew how to do. Um, so then, you know, you, you go to school here. Uh, so then it's just all about, uh, you know, playing baseball and getting your degree. And then, I mean, I think something that they don't prepare you for is like that.
That thing, you know, shuts off like pretty abruptly once you're done with, done with school, if you're gonna go continue to play. Um, wasn't quite sure if I was gonna continue to play or transition and, and start working and getting a job. Um, so yeah, I mean, one minute you're, you're in school playing baseball, and then the next minute that stuff's over and you're trying to figure out, okay, well, you know, I've [00:03:00] devoted, you know, the last 15, 16, 17, 18 years to doing this one thing.
That chapter, it came to a close, wasn't quite sure what I was gonna go do. Uh, was I gonna go to grad school? Was I gonna enter work workforce? Um, so yeah, one, one thing kind of led to another. Um, whenever I was done with school, I ended up opening up a, a distribution center, like a, A parts house, supply house.
HVAC supply house. Yeah. Uh, so I did that in northwest Arkansas. So that would've been, you know, probably around 2006 or so. And so, got into the space, but found the land, put up the building, um, you know, and, and I ran a, I ran a supply house for three, four years. It was a, it was a really good experience. I got to know all the HVAC contractors in the area.
So a lot of 'em that are still around, um, they were once my customers at, at one point in time. That's, that's how I got to know Pascal. Yeah. Uh, so Pascal used to be a, a customer of mine, got to know the, the old owner. And then, um, yeah, so like I said, in 2010, I, I came up, you know, I left [00:04:00] that and I was there for three, four years again.
Like really good experience. Learned a lot, uh, started from nothing, you know, had to put the building up, you know, hire the staff, get the accounts. I mean, just a, a lot of, um, just a really good experience in your, in your twenties. Sure. Um, so yeah, really good experience there. And then. That's kind of how I entered the workforce.
And then, yeah.
[00:04:21] Cameron Clark: Well it's, it's funny that most I've, like, it's, I feel like most people didn't even realize that like a supply house is a, is a business in itself. And it's like, I guess you, from growing up, you knew, you knew that, was that, that, that like was a, a piece in the ecosystem?
[00:04:34] Charley Boyce: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, so you're on the distributor side? Um, yeah, so I mean, there was, there was a business in Tulsa, uh, there's a supply house in Tulsa that basically they wanted to open up a northwest Arkansas branch. Mm-hmm. Uh, I knew them just kinda having grown up in the industry. Um, you know what, we were kind of family friends, so they said, Hey, let's, let's open up a northwest Arkansas facility and your name's come up and it's like, all right, yeah, let's go do it.
So I don't know what they were thinking, um, you know, trusting a 20 something year old kid to do [00:05:00] all these things, but like, yeah, it was just a, a great experience for me. Um, like I said, got to know everybody and then came aboard Pascal, the, the owner at the time, um, you know, didn't really have an exit strategy.
He was in his mid sixties. Um, so then I, I came aboard in 2010 and, you know, my goal was to. Run under him for a little bit and try to learn all I could and then, you know, eventually buy the business and, you know, obviously that, that, that happened.
[00:05:23] Cameron Clark: Yeah. Wow. Well, and, and back then, so it feels like now the blue collar space is really popular.
It's like. It feels like, hey, you know, the, the, but the, if you're listening in the, in the, you know, paying attention to the business community's like, man, like go start a blue collar business. You know? It's, it, it's simple. You can put technology into it. You can go, you can like, but did, did it feel like that at all back then?
[00:05:50] Charley Boyce: No, no, not even close, man. Um, it's the cool thing to do. It's sexy now. It was certainly not sexy then. Um, yeah, like I said, man, I, I grew up in the space. [00:06:00] I, I, uh, I didn't really have a choice. I was doing it before. It was the, the cool thing to do. Um, and in, in hindsight, just very fortunate, very blessed to be born into the situation I was born into.
Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. And then I think, you know, I got here and, um, enjoyed like Pascal and what it stood for at, at that time with, with the people and, but yeah, man, it was, uh, you know, an old, uh, quo hut in, uh, off county Line Road and in Springdale. Mm-hmm. Uh, just kind of tucked back in this little warehouse district.
Uh, it was before it was the cool thing to do. I can, I can assure you.
[00:06:33] Cameron Clark: Well, and yeah, so, so talk about that when you, when you joined the business, like what was the, the dynamic, how many employees. You know, and you're kind of given the dynamic, dynamic location, how, maybe like how many clients someone serviced back then?
Just residential. Residential and commercial. Yeah. You know, so the
[00:06:49] Charley Boyce: Pascal itself was founded in 1968 by guy named Randall Pascal, you know, and so it, it was ran from 68, uh, to say 2004, and then a guy named Harold Kimery [00:07:00] acquired the company from Randall Pascal. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I think, if I'm not mistaken, Randall passed shortly thereafter.
Mm-hmm. Um, so it, it was ran as just a, a good, you know, mom and pop business in Springdale, Arkansas for, for a number of years. Harold stepped in, in, in 2004 and, and did a really, really good job. So I guess he had owned it for six years when I got there, um, in my supply house days, you would have Paschal employees come into to my business and I could just tell, um, I didn't necessarily know Harold all that well at that time, but you could just tell.
The people that came in to the, to my house, to my supply house was, um, you know, you could just tell, uh, the pride that they took, the workmanship, like you could just tell yeah, that there was a lot of pride with, with where they worked as compared to a lot of the other, you know, people that, that came in.
So you could just, you kind of had the sense of, of who it was, you know, who, who Harold was and the people that he had inside the business. So they came to be just a really good account. Um, so yeah, I got here in [00:08:00] 2010. There was, you know, honestly there's like 12 or 15 people and so it was very much a small mom and pop, um, you know, 12, 15 people, plus or minus.
Harold did a great job. Um, so yeah, that's, that's why I stepped into
[00:08:12] Cameron Clark: and office managers, some technicians and, and yeah, you got it. Maybe a sales guy or something that two, two
[00:08:17] Charley Boyce: service techs, two install crews. Uh, yeah, sales guy, um, you know, a lady answering the phones and the owner. I mean, that, that was about it.
[00:08:25] Nick Beyer: You. So talk a little bit about why Pascal, and, and did it come from, did it come from Randall? Did it come from Harold? But what made you, I mean, you, you talked about pride in their work, like. Do you think that was instilled in both owners? How deep do you think that thread kind of runs through the business?
[00:08:45] Charley Boyce: I mean, it, it runs deep, uh, a hundred, a hundred percent. Um, you know, unfortunately I never got the pleasure to meet, you know, Randall. He had, he had passed on, uh, before I, before I got here. But, um, as far as Harold was concerned, yeah. You know, focused on doing things the right way. I'll give Harold a [00:09:00] lot of credit because he is very intuitive.
Very, uh, tech focused. And, and here's a guy even, you know, at that time he was in his early to mid sixties and you don't think, uh, someone that's, that's really kinda leaning into being dynamic in change at, at that stage in their career. So I'll give him a lot of credit and, you know, I wanna say probably oh 5, 0 6, 0 7, you know, that's when the new construction boom was, was still going on.
Yeah.
[00:09:22] Cameron Clark: Yeah.
[00:09:23] Charley Boyce: And he did a really great job of transitioning the business into more of a service and replacement business. And he really. Hmm. Stepped out and winded down. Um, a lot of the new construction stuff, which with, if you're in the trades, um, you know, everyone has kind of different opinions, but we are very much a service and replacement driven company.
We're not really a new construction company, um, at all. And so I think he really reduced his exposure before the turn and the crash came in in 2008. And so as a result, he was doing all that work in oh 6, 0 7, so that when the downturn came, like the company was positioned well, whereas you had a lot of other people who had a lot of new construction [00:10:00] exposure and, you know, those people are no longer around.
So I'll give him a lot of credit for kind of starting the company down that path. Um, you know, my family's company was service and replacement, so that's what I've always grown up doing. Hmm. Um, so yeah, I'll give, I'll give Harold a lot of credit. Like I said, we were 12, 15 people when I got here today.
It's, you know, 400. So we've, we've grown a lot, um, through, through the years.
[00:10:21] Nick Beyer: Hmm. That's good. The transition to service and replacement, um, that's still. The core of Pascal, is that correct? Through and through. Yeah. And how hard is it, especially when your company's growing like crazy? There's opportunities everywhere.
I think you see, the more successful people get, the more opportunities come to them. How hard is it for you to stay focused when there's so much new construction around? How hard is it for you to stay focused on that core?
[00:10:49] Charley Boyce: Uh, not hard at all. Okay. Um, yeah, not, not hard at all. I would think that, you know, in 2012, um, so from 12 to [00:11:00] 20, you know, we just, it was a ton of organic growth mm-hmm.
Here at Pascal. And so, you know, we went from. You know, probably 12, 15 people to maybe close to a hundred, um, into 2016. So we, we grew a lot, uh, in a, in over that eight year stretch. We added plumbing, we added electrical. I think as you, like, in our space, in the home service space, like as you cut your teeth as an operator, you start to figure out what works, what doesn't work.
So there's certainly been times when we've dabbled in, you know, um, new construction, you know, do working for a couple builders. There's times where we were doing a fair amount of commercial new construction. So I think you. You know, we've done some box store retail where we were working with Lowe's and Home Depot and some of those other things.
So, um, we've certainly tried different things along the way and I think over time, um, you kind of refine what works and what doesn't. And then just as we've cut our teeth as operators, I'd say we've just become more and more focused on who we are as a [00:12:00] company, what we are, what we stand for, and then more importantly, like what we say no to.
Mm-hmm. And I would say that the company really started to grow 17 and 18 as we really refined the focus and said, here's what we're really good at, here's what we're gonna focus on, here's who we are, and then more importantly, here's everything else we're gonna say no to. Mm-hmm. And so, um, I don't think we had that focus, say from 12 to 18, but from 18 to today.
And you know, really what it amounts to is we're a service company. And so, you know, if a customer's calling us Mr. Ms. Smith, and they're having problems with a mechanical system, HVAC, plumbing or electric. That's what we're good at. You know, if it's a, we're building 300 homes, like we're not good at that, we're not gonna focus on it, we're just gonna take care of the home.
What was the trigger
[00:12:41] Cameron Clark: there that, like, that queued that for you? Uh, man, what was the trigger? Its a question like in, in, in 20, would you say it? 2017, uh, 2018. When, whenever that, with that moment, or was the, was there a, a moment, was it a, was it a mentor coach or was it a, was it an [00:13:00] experience of bad client or like Yeah, I
[00:13:02] Charley Boyce: don't know that it's like any one watershed moment.
Mm-hmm. You know, like I said, growing up I was always taught service and replacement is the place to be. And the family's company, uh, never did new construction. I think Harold, when he got going, he chased a lot of the new construction and. You do a lot of work and there's no money in it and you're, it is just, it's a waste of time.
Like, and I hate it. Um, if I'm being a hundred percent candid, I think in our space to do one thing incredibly well, you need to focus. Mm-hmm. And so, um, it doesn't, you know, basically you have commercial guys, you have residential service and replacement guys, you have residential or multi-family, new construction guys.
And those that do it incredibly well only focus on one thing. So I think if you're gonna be great at new construction, like that's all you have to do. Yeah. Uh, or that's all you should focus on. Yeah. So those that try to do a little bit of everything end up being average at all, great at nothing. And so there are great [00:14:00] companies out there that focus on commercial.
There's great companies that focus on residential, um, great companies that focus on new construction. It's just a different discipline and you really gotta focus on one.
[00:14:09] Nick Beyer: Hmm. That's good. Well, we'll get, we'll get to more of the story, but take us a little bit, take us back to. Coming on in 2010, the acquisition in 12.
For, for someone who maybe is listening and they're interested in an acquisition or they're interested in, in looking at businesses who've got, you know, someone who doesn't have an exit strategy, what was, what was the proposal to, to Kimery at that time, Mr. Kimery, and how did that work out? What, what capital was needed?
Just kind of talk a little bit about that story.
[00:14:39] Charley Boyce: Yeah.
[00:14:39] Nick Beyer: Um, and this was before, you know, acquisitions were, were all the raised Yeah. A hundred percent
[00:14:45] Charley Boyce: dude. Um, yeah, I've made every mistake in the book. I was in my t you know, like I said, I, I was born and raised in the family business, so I just very fortunate to be, in hindsight, looking back just a family business entrepreneurs.
Mm-hmm. That was my [00:15:00] grandfather. That was my father. Uh, I didn't realize it at the time, but that's just what you're exposed to. You know, I, that's, I was exposed to. You know, small business entrepreneurship, family business. Again, didn't, didn't realize it at the time, but that's what I knew. It was your
[00:15:13] Cameron Clark: normal,
[00:15:13] Charley Boyce: it was my normal, yeah.
Yeah. That, that was my normal. And so whenever I was done with school, I just wasn't gonna do the family business thing. I wasn't gonna move back to Tulsa. I love northwest Arkansas. Um, so that I was gonna, I knew I was gonna make this my home. I didn't know really what I was gonna do. Um, so yeah, I was in distribution for a number of years.
Uh, for me personally, uh, I knew distribution wasn't long term. Um, and I think you're either great on the distributor side or you're great on the, like, contractor end user side. And so it was a, it was a good opportunity for me. It was a good learning. But yeah, got got to Pascal. Um, you know, if I, I think back, uh, you know, I, when I hired on at Pascal, I mean, I remember, uh, I was getting interviewed by, by Harold.
And, um, awesome guy. And I was, I was getting interviewed by him and I told him like, point blank, you know, [00:16:00] what's the extra strategy? You know, what's our plans here? Like, my goal would be to come in here, like work for you, try to learn everything that I can, and ultimately, you know, buy the business. And, you know, I'm sure he is probably pretty dismissive.
Like, here's a 20 something year old kid at the time, um, laying out his plans. Um, so I'm sure he is like, yeah, we'll see. Uh, but yeah, I mean, and hired on and then. Uh, that, that took a minute, you know, um, that, that took a minute. I had a lot to learn. Uh, tried to learn all that I, all that I could. Of course, I was in my twenties, so I, I thought I knew everything.
Um, yeah. But one thing kind of led to another, and then over time, you know, you know, Harold trusted me enough to acquire the company. And, um, I had worked in the business for a couple years. I knew, you know, I, I was part of the company. Mm-hmm. And so I think, uh, he trusted me enough that I had to earn it like that, that was a hundred percent earned.
Um, he was not gonna give you anything. Yeah. And so, you know, had to earn the right to, to buy the business. Rightfully so, like that's the way he should have thought about it. And so in time kind of [00:17:00] earned the right to buy the business from him, and then stepped in and bought the business. Um, so yeah, SI mean, happy to talk through how it was done, but, uh, did it through local bank, SBA note, uh, bought, bought the business that way.
[00:17:11] Cameron Clark: And so those, those two years, were you doing sales? Were you, like, were you in the technician side of the business where were a little bit of both? Where were you? Yeah, a little bit of both. Yeah. So, you know, in past, like, I'm the license holder. Mm-hmm. Um, so grew up, grew up in the trade, so, and that, what does that just, so make sure everyone understands what that means.
Like you're like the one that holds all, I, I think I assume all the risk, but like the, the, the license of the state is what it is. Okay. Yeah. I mean, see all of the
[00:17:38] Charley Boyce: above. Yeah. You know, hold, hold the risk as the, as the owner, of course. But, um, yeah. So I'm the license holder, like of, of record on the HVAC side, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Texas.
Okay. Missouri.
[00:17:50] Cameron Clark: Yep. Yep. Um, yeah, so I mean, you kind of touched different parts before coming on, like officially, like buy, buying, buying the business. Yeah. Um,
[00:17:59] Charley Boyce: yeah, so a [00:18:00] little bit on the tech side, but really, um, so one thing that was very appealing to me at Pascal is geothermal. We Harold, like his specialty is, he really was focused on geothermal.
And so I stepped in to learn geothermal. Mm. Um, which is kind of a little more of a specialized kinda like niche type thing. So I really wanted to learn from him. On the geothermal side, we had a residential. Comfort advisor at the time. And so I was brought on to learn the geothermal side from, from Harold.
So I did that. It wasn't, um, too long before I got there where the residential comfort advisor moved on. Mm-hmm. So then I went from, on the sales side doing both the geo side and then took over the residential sales side. Kind of ran 'em both for a while and then stepped in and, and bought the business.
And, and how new
[00:18:49] Nick Beyer: was geothermal back when you came on
[00:18:51] Charley Boyce: 2010? Uh, it's not that it was new. I mean, it's been around for a long time. Okay. Um. But it, it's specialized, it's not a lot of people do it. [00:19:00] Whereas Pascal, really, over the years, it had a name, um, you know, we were known it was Pascal Heat, air, and geothermal.
Oh, wow. So we did, you know, there was us, and then there was a company in Hot Springs who we ultimately acquired, but between us two, like those were the two main players in the state when it came to Geo.
[00:19:17] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm. And so it, it feels like you kind of had, I don't know, I I don't think it's necessarily a negative, I don't think it's a negative thing, but just a, a confidence and like, I don't know if it, did it feel like a risk at the time buying the business or it was like, oh, no, I, I know what I wanna do and I, I've seen this work before in the fa in the family.
Like, where did that come from? Were you born with it? Did you see it, your dad? What was the uh,
[00:19:42] Charley Boyce: um, yeah, I mean, some might call it confidence. I might call it ignorance or stupidity or any of those kind of things. Um, I don't know. I've never lacked, I've never lacked, um. Confidence or belief in myself. Um, so yeah, I don't know that I've ever really lacked that.
[00:20:00] Um, if I'm on bet, I'll bet on myself, win, lose or draw whatever happens. Like I'd rather just take that bet than than the other. Um, so yeah, I, I think, and then over time, just with the baseball career, I think that that continues to, yeah, I've never lacked, I've never lacked confidence. And then I think there's obviously they can go too far and you can get overconfident and become cocky and get humbled and do all those things.
And I think as I was growing, I had to learn those where the Yeah, boundaries were. But um, yeah, I've never lacked just belief in myself and what we can go do. It's awesome.
[00:20:32] Nick Beyer: Talk about the industry back then. 2010, 2014, kind of that early era. I mean, y'all were just doing HVAC at the time. Um, that's obviously, that seems like it's a theme that's changed in the industry, but just kind of talk about what, what, what were the industry standards like back then?
What was common? Obviously the rollups weren't as common back then. Just kind of talk about that.
[00:20:54] Charley Boyce: Yeah, so consolidation rollups weren't really a thing back then at all. Um, so [00:21:00] 2010, you know, Pascal in northwest Arkansas was not the biggest player. You know, we probably weren't even in the top five if you went, you know, down the street and just asked somebody like, who do you think of when you think of a heating and air company?
I promise you Pascal would not have been a name that most of people had even heard of. Um, so yeah, we were just small mom and pop. If you were born and raised in Springdale, Arkansas, you probably knew Pascal, but outside of that, you, you did not. Um, so, you know, it was really just get in, in 2010 and just start executing, start taking care of customers.
Just do it like one thing at a time. Um. Take care of customers. You know, we did, we were not the employer of choice. Like we did not have the best technicians either. And so you have to, you have to build that over time. Mm-hmm. And so it was just really a, a grind, uh, still is, but I mean, it was just a grind from 2010 to say 2018, and it was just day by day, week by week, month by month.
Like one [00:22:00] customer at a time, you know, keep growing the business, you know, understanding here's who we are, here's what we stand for. Hopefully you're growing and developing your people. Um, along the way. Maybe there's some people that don't really want to, you know, adhere to, here's the standard. Mm-hmm. Um, so you gotta uphold the standard.
So I think the business just grew a lot and it was customer service, customer service, customer service. We're gonna take care of customers. We're gonna take care of each other and the business is gonna grow. So I think just establishing the culture takes a minute. Hmm. Um, so I think that was from 2010 to 2018, I think our customers, uh, we would get a lot of calls for plumbing.
We would get a lot of calls for electrical, but we had, we had so much to do just to grow. You know, when I, we didn't own northwest Arkansas, we didn't even own like a zip code. And so it's just like, we're gonna focus on these neighborhoods and we're gonna be the best in these neighborhoods. And then as we start to get these neighborhoods, then we'll focus on the zip code.
As we get the zip code, we'll go to the next zip code. So just like very laser [00:23:00] focused on. Where, you know, where we can get a following, where we can grow and, and obviously that's led to one thing over, you know, it compounds. Yeah. Over, over time. And was
[00:23:09] Cameron Clark: that, uh, was it heavy marketing focus sales focused or was it, was it more so, hey, just.
We're just gonna try and do a really good job. And word of mouth comes. What, what was the, was there or was con conglomerate of all those at the beginning?
[00:23:25] Charley Boyce: Um, really operational excellence, like that's how we're wired. It's operational excellence. I would say from 2010 to 2018, when we moved into this facility, 17, 18, it was operational excellence, like one customer at a time.
Like that's it, period. Uh, we certainly did some marketing, don't get me wrong. Um, but if we were gonna hang our hat on something, it's gonna be operational excellence. And in this business, like the home service business, I think that there's a lot of sales and marketing organizations that don't focus on operational excellence.
Those companies can [00:24:00] grow and scale. I don't think they offer a great product. Yeah. Then there's a lot of mom and pops that might be focused on operational excellence, but don't know how to grow and scale. Yeah. Right. And. If you can really kind of thread the needle and just focus on operational excellence and grow and scale.
So I'd say early it was operational excellence. I would say over time we've refined getting better at like the sales and marketing piece. Um, so we really try kind of walk the line of, of best of both worlds. So
[00:24:27] Nick Beyer: good. It makes me think of the true Kathy quo where is like, we don't need to focus on getting bigger.
It's like if we focus on getting better, the world will demand that we get bigger. Love that. Yeah, that I feel like it captures exactly what you're saying. So, so talk about the operational excellence piece. What does that mean to you? I, I call Pascal, I've got an HVAC problem when a service tech comes to my house.
How would you define that? How do you guys define it internally that,
[00:24:52] Charley Boyce: yeah. That it was excellent. Yeah. Great question. Um. Um, the way we think about it is we make 10, 20, [00:25:00] 30 year decisions. And so for us, the model is educate, inform, offer, solutions, period. That's it. So like, you know, the, the standard is like, as we pull out of customer's driveway, did we do a good job?
Were we thorough? Are they happy? As long as it's Yes, yes, and yes. Like we've done all that we can do. So we're, we're very process driven. Mm-hmm. We focus on the process. We know what our process is. Educate, inform, offer solutions. So, you know, if I'm thinking about HVAC, if, if the customers, customers don't know, right?
Like we're dealing with their, their HVAC systems or their mechanical systems, plumbing, like they don't know, they don't understand. And it's just, here's what you got, here's how it works. Here's why you're having problems. Here's how I address those problems. We want our customers to make a good, well-informed decision and be okay with the outcomes.
[00:25:53] Cameron Clark: Hmm.
[00:25:53] Charley Boyce: And so if that's a $300 service ticket, I don't care if that's a $10,000 sit. Like it doesn't matter to me if we do a good [00:26:00] job. Are you happy? So. And the best thing about our business is like the feedback loop is incredibly fast. Like incredibly fast. If we do a bad job today, like I know we all know today, we get a one star review, you know, here is my expectation, you failed to meet it.
So I think that's the best part about our business is if we're not making customers happy, like we know immediately.
[00:26:22] Nick Beyer: So good. Yeah. And, and y'all have a track record. I mean, it's highlighted on your website over 16,005 star reviews, which is kind of hard to believe, to be honest. So it's unbelievable.
[00:26:32] Charley Boyce: Yeah, no, appreciate that.
Unbelievable. Well, we've, uh, yeah, we make 'em happy and we've also made some that aren't not happy. We got,
[00:26:37] Nick Beyer: we got some work
[00:26:38] Charley Boyce: to do
[00:26:38] Nick Beyer: there too. For sure. So my, uh, this is a selfish question, um, as I reflect on my business, but how do you balance operational excellence in service? You know, one of the things you guys talk about is world class service.
How do you balance that with price? How do you, how do you see those thi two things going together as you think about [00:27:00] your competition? And, and just generally doing business, how do you balance those two things? Yeah,
[00:27:05] Charley Boyce: so, um, we say world class service 'cause that's the standard, right? And the reason I like world class service is, you know it, when you see it, you know, you can look at something and say, is that world class yes or no?
It's very easy to say that's a yes and that's a no. And so world class service needs to be in everything we do. It's, it's the way we show up to the home. Is our truck clean? How does our uniform look like? What does our install look like? Are our customers happy? Like we know it when we see it.
[00:27:35] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:35] Charley Boyce: And so the way we think about the business is I don't worry about what anybody else is doing.
I don't care. And, and I'm being sincere when I say that all we focus on is our customers and our guys and girls in the field. And so, as long as our customers are happy and as long as our employees are happy, like the business keeps growing and so. I'm not too concerned what's going on around us [00:28:00] because here's the way it works.
If a customer has a problem, they call us. If they have a world class experience, the next time they have a problem, they don't call anybody else. Mm-hmm. And so that's the way, that's the way it works for us, is like we have to get ke customers and we have to keep customers. And so nobody's gonna come in and have a world class experience and say, Hey, you know what?
You guys absolutely knocked it outta the park with this problem I was having last year. Now I'm gonna go try somebody else. So as long as you just, just crush that experience like they're
[00:28:28] Nick Beyer: yours until you don't. Hmm. That's really good. Uh, last kind of piece for me on inception here, it seems like you've been super focused on just one customer at a time.
So that's the, that's the process part. But as you think through your leadership, you think through the acquisition in 2012, was there a vision early on for the growth that's happened? Obviously you've been, you know, you're in the middle right, with the processes and the operations and just being really committed to customer service.
But was, was there a [00:29:00] vision? What was that vision? Do you think it just kind of happened?
[00:29:04] Charley Boyce: Uh, a little bit of both. So we don't have a, um, you know, we don't have like this, this grand vision of, or maybe I should say this. We don't have this outcome that we say, this is what success looks like for us. We don't say, we want to get to this revenue number, we want to have this many technicians, or we want to have this many trucks.
Like, that's not what we focus on. And that I think is setting yourself up for failure and disappointment. So like, but what we do know is like, we are very. Focused and like resolute around what our true north is and what we're good at. Um, so we're gonna go as far as we can go and we understand true north, we're gonna follow that.
Mm-hmm. Where we end up is wherever we end up, but we, we don't have, so I know it's kind of a, a non-answer. Um, but yeah, we don't really have, we're gonna go hard. We're gonna keep growing. We're gonna keep building, uh, wherever we end up, we end up, but we don't have this view of, okay, in 10 years we're gonna be [00:30:00] here and here's how many people we're gonna have.
Yeah. And here's all of our locations. Like, we don't, we don't think like that.
[00:30:04] Nick Beyer: So dig deeper on that. For founders. Starting out for an entrepreneur who's two years into their business, why, why don't you focus on outcomes?
[00:30:12] Charley Boyce: So that
[00:30:13] Nick Beyer: it's a waste of time. Um,
[00:30:15] Charley Boyce: dude, I, so I can go deep on this one. Um, alright, so if I'm gonna say baseball, right?
So like college baseball, the, the, the, the thing that you always focus on is Omaha. Like, let's go to the College World Series. Let's, let's get to Omaha. It's like, in everything that you do is, that is what success looks like if you, if you get to Omaha. So, when I was there, we were fortunate enough to get to Omaha, right?
And so it's. Kind of what some of the people still talk about, like in that oh four year and you know, that year, like the hogs, we weren't supposed to be great. We were picked last in the SEC, you know, we ended up winning the conference, winning the regional, winning the super regional and then getting to Omaha, right?
And so here you are, you arrive, you arrive at this [00:31:00] place, um, and then you get there with all your teammates and you kinda look around and you're like, well, is this all there is? Um, so it was. Now granted the hogs like we went oh and two. Uh, so maybe that had something to do with it, but just, it was just to be reflected like you think through this is all year, you're focused on doing this thing and you actually get there and it's not what you think it's gonna go, you know, it is just not what you think it's gonna be.
And so as I look back on my time, I think that was a great experience and a great experience to have early to man. The, the, the joy was in the grind and the process and the workouts and the camaraderie you build with your teammates and being in the locker room. And so, as I think back of say, that season, those are the things I look back and, and just.
Really feel great about. It's not, Hey, we had this goal and we met it. Mm. Um, and so I think like in business for us, if we tie success to an outcome, you're either not gonna [00:32:00] hit it and then you're, you know, upset or what have you, or you're gonna hit it and you're gonna say, is this all there is? Then I think you were focused on the wrong things and you, you didn't enjoy the ride, you didn't really just enjoy the process.
Um, so yeah, I just think biasing or focusing on an outcome for me anyway, is not, is just, just, it's not worth doing.
[00:32:20] Nick Beyer: So Good. Anything else on inception?
[00:32:23] Charley Boyce: No,
[00:32:24] Cameron Clark: I just got the chills. The, uh, so talk about, so now, now kind of out of inception to the more midlife cycle, bringing on plumbing, bringing on HVAC, or sorry, electrical, uh.
What queued that final decision was like, Hey, all right, it's time to get in the game here. Um, yeah, what was that like? Yeah,
[00:32:44] Charley Boyce: so 2012 we had a lot of growth to do in northwest Arkansas, uh, a lot on the HVAC side. So from 12 to 18, we, we did all of that. You know, we had our building in, in old Springdale, uh, you know, 10,000 square foot facility and we had a hundred [00:33:00] people inside of that.
We, we, we outgrew it. We were spatially challenged. Uh, so we were then getting calls on plumbing. We were getting calls on electrical. Um, we would have to tell our customers no, 'cause we were just focused on HVAC and, you know, you got to where you didn't feel super comfortable referring people because if they didn't have a great experience, then it kind of reflects poorly on you.
Uh, so. We kind of made the, the bet, if you will, to buy this land, put up this facility that we could grow into. Mm-hmm. Um, so once we moved into this facility, obviously much larger facility, then we had the ability to add plumbing, add electric. Mm-hmm. So in 18 we added plumbing. In 18 we added electric. So we added those kind of back to back.
Had a lot to learn. Um, you know, so we started as HVC, we, then we added plumbing, we added electric. Um, yeah. So we had to learn plumbing. We had to learn electric. So from 12 to 20 it was all northwest Arkansas and we, we grew, we added plumbing in electric in 18. Then in 2020 we started growing through [00:34:00] acquisition.
So, yeah.
[00:34:01] Cameron Clark: And when you added plumbing electric here, you weren't acquiring any other companies. That was, this was, you were just bringing on, um, those trades internally? Correct. Okay.
[00:34:09] Charley Boyce: Yeah. Yeah. We started plumbing from scratch. We started electric from scratch and we just, yeah, we started from nothing.
[00:34:15] Cameron Clark: And you didn't have any background in that either?
So it was like, Hey brand. Yeah. Brand new there too. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I grew
[00:34:21] Charley Boyce: up in HHVC is what I know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I'm not a plumber. Yeah. I did not know plumbing. Um, and again, you know, the way you run plumbing is different than HVAC, so we've made every mistake in under the sun. Um, we've learned a lot.
Uh, but yeah, when I started it is like, all right, we're gonna go do plumbing. And you, I think it's the same as HVAC. Well, it's not. Yeah. Uh, so we, we made a lot of mistakes along the way. We had to learn a lot along the way. Um, so yeah, a lot, lot of, lot of growing
[00:34:48] Nick Beyer: pains through the years. Before we get in that, the acquisition piece, I don't wanna skip over two big risks.
The first risk was buying this land building, this gorgeous building. Talk about that, your memories of it. Talk about [00:35:00] maybe some of the things you were feeling right here when all that's going on. Yeah. Um, and then, and then same for bringing on plumbing and electrical. I mean, you've, you're. You've been around HVAC your whole life.
I imagine that feels like a risk when you're starting something plumbing, electrical, that you don't, you just don't have the knowledge base of. So talk, talk about both of those risks.
[00:35:21] Charley Boyce: Yeah. Uh, you know, I think there's a big, just in hindsight, I don't appreciate it when I'm doing it, but, um, buying the business, you know, like in your twenties was a, was a risk.
Um. Putting every, you know, a hundred percent of your net worth on the line is obviously a risk. Um, you know, so I think that was a big, a big risk. Yeah. And then buying, uh, the land, putting up this building, doing all of those things, that's obviously a big, a big risk. Um, I don't think I appreciate the weight or the significance of it at the time.
It's only probably later on down the road you look back and you're like, Hmm. Um, there was some risk involved with [00:36:00] that. Um, like I said, it's probably a fine line between like confidence and belief in yourself. And I don't know, man, I just figure if someone's doing it, we can figure it out. It can't be that, like, it's, it's incredibly simple.
It's hard to do, like it's hard to execute, but it's not rocket science. Like it's, you know, customers call, they have a problem, go out there, fix problem. Like it's, it is very, it's a simple business. Mm. It's just, it's hard to execute. Right. So, um, yeah, I think there's a lot of risk involved. Just believe in yourself, figure it out.
There's a, there's a saying in baseball and it's, um, it's like, it's not a gamble if you execute. So I, that kind of has shaped some of the ways I'm thinking. It's like, all right, yeah, it's a big risk. You put a building up, um, but, you know, go in there, execute, take care of customers. Like the math needs to work.
Don't get me wrong. Uh, you need to do your homework, but as long as you go in there and execute, um, you know, you got good
[00:36:54] Cameron Clark: outcomes. Is there a time in this, see this midlife cycle of the [00:37:00] business where, I don't know, call it overconfidence or, or, or going too fast or what, what, whatever that led to fall in your face moment at all, or, oh, yeah.
Yeah. All the time. I mean, well, I, I, yeah. Like that really that you, that you remember, you're like, oh man, that one hurt.
[00:37:16] Charley Boyce: Yeah. I think, um, uh, made every mistake. Um, yeah, we've, we've made a lot of mistakes. Um. I think in your twenties or your thirties, like you're just, you're going hard. You don't know what you don't know.
You think you know, everything, all that kind of stuff. It's like nothing's further from the truth. Um, so yeah, you, you gotta make the mistakes, you gotta do all the things. Um, so yeah, I've made literally every mistake under the sun. We've, we've made it, uh, we've touched the stove plenty of times. Um, so I think for us, you know, now I'm like early forties, I think that it's, we're gonna continue to make well-informed decisions.
We're gonna continue to grow. We're gonna continue to keep doing what we're doing. Uh, it should be hard, right? Yeah. Like if, if it's not, perfection is [00:38:00] not the goal. Like if, if you're trying to go and get through this thing unscathed, like you're not pushing. Yeah. And so now you can push too hard. You can get out over your skis, the wheels can come off.
Um, you can certainly go down the wrong path for me. Like this place, we're accustomed to growth. We're accustomed to growing pains, we're accustomed to change. Like we double every two to three years. Um. That's the way this place is wired. It's a lot of people that are wired that way. And so, you know, if we have just a healthy amount of, kind of, if we're going down the road and the wheels are just kind of wobbling a little bit and everyone's got like a healthy amount of stress, that's perfect.
If everything's going too smooth, we're not pushing hard enough.
[00:38:41] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:42] Charley Boyce: Now again, you can go too far and there's certainly been times where it's like, all right, we bit off a little more than we can chew. We got out of our skis a little bit. Mm-hmm. Let's, let's kind of foot off the gas. Let's make sure the org can keep up.
Yeah. So we're, we're always kind of trying to teeter, uh, make sure we're in the sweet spot. It's really good. [00:39:00]
[00:39:00] Nick Beyer: So the acquisitions beginning in 2020. Talk about where, talk about the industry where, where the industry was at then. So roll-ups had, had started to occur. I don't know how long they'd been happening.
Um, I don't know where multiples were at, but just kind of talk about where things were at when you guys started the acquisitions, and then where, where things are at maybe. Closer to now. We'll, we'll get to current, but just generally.
[00:39:25] Charley Boyce: Yeah. So, you know, there was a consolidation movement in the nineties that ultimately failed.
Um, I said I, I came in just born into it. I came in doing it before it was the cool thing to do now. Now it is. Um, yeah, in 20 then the consolidation movement started again, 18, 19, but really picked up COVID, post COVID. So I would say the height of all the PE consolidation that, or private equity consolidation, I'd say that's.
19, 20, 21, 22. That was kind of the, where it was really going. Um, I mean, it still is, but that was like at the, at the top. [00:40:00] Mm-hmm. And so, uh, in 2020, you know, we had, we had, I'd been here for 10 years, owned the business for eight. Uh, we had all this growth, all organic ad, plumbing, ad electric. Then we started to go to new locations.
We got to where we had a really good footprint in northwest Arkansas. And so, uh, that was really just kind of opportunistic. Found a company in Joplin, 30 5-year-old company where the owner was mid sixties, uh, ready to retire. And so we stepped into that business, Simpson Sheet Metal. Mm-hmm. Uh, so Mark Simpson was ready to retire.
So that became our second location. We had no clue what we were doing. Um, so we did that first one we needed to learn. Yeah. Like just learn everything. Um, you know, running one location is. One thing, adding another location adds a total different, you know, it's a whole nother layer of complexity in a different state, different state, different distribution, licensing, tax.
I mean, just whole, just a whole other layer of complexity that we needed to learn. Um, so that's how we did 2020. Then obviously COVID hit. That was a very [00:41:00] dynamic time to just like work your way through. Um, then in 21, uh, we green fielded a location in Fort Smith, Arkansas where we just put up a put up a shop.
Yeah. We were getting a lot of calls from Fort Smith.
[00:41:11] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:11] Charley Boyce: Um, so it's like, all right, obviously there's enough here. We were deadheading like sending guys down. Yeah. Um, so it's like, obviously there's enough here. Let's just put up a shop in, in Fort Smith. So in 21 we did that one, and then that gave us our third location.
Then in 2022 is where it really started to accelerate. Uh, in 2022, uh, we did four acquisitions, one in Hot Springs, one in cce, another one in Joplin, one in DFW. So when I say we did a little bit too much, uh, and that was the year? That was
[00:41:39] Cameron Clark: the year. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the year. How did you, I mean, so from like a people standpoint that year, capital standpoint that year, how'd you, how did you juggle?
How'd, how'd you figure that out? Um,
[00:41:51] Charley Boyce: still figured it out. Yeah. Um, yeah. I just, we certainly don't have it figured out. Um. Yeah, I mean, it's a, again, it's a grind. It [00:42:00] depends on what you're doing For us, like what we're doing is a little bit different than a guy or a girl family, what have you. That's that, that buy a business, step into a business and get it to a certain level.
I think a lot of these businesses are lifestyle businesses. Yeah. And they, they run their two 5 million bucks. They take a lot of money outta the business. They buy stuff. They do stuff like totally fine. Such as they're right. Like, and they should, uh, we're doing something entirely different. And so for us, uh, you know, I've been here 15 years, like I've never taken a dollar outta this business.
And so every single thing we do gets reinvested in the business. And so that's the way we run it. It's a little bit different than, than some. And so, um. We enjoy that process. So for us, it's just been let's go to the next market. Let's go to the next market. Let's go to the next market. So yeah, in 22 we did four acquisitions.
We got out over our skis. Uh, we did a system conversion the same year. Uh, I had a CFO that I ran with, uh, kind of functioned as a partner for 10 years. He retired in 2022. Mm-hmm. So 2022. As I kind of [00:43:00] think back, moving into this facility in, in say, 2018, adding plumbing, electrical, that was a step change year for us.
2022 was another step change year where we did new CFO, new CRM and then the four acquisitions. That was a, that was a step change,
[00:43:16] Nick Beyer: a big step change. And you're going to markets like DFW, where like the competition, the competition here is, I mean, we have some big companies here, but the competition in DFW is different.
So w why go there? What, what, what was, as you're thinking through the strategy there, what, what. What was going through your mind?
[00:43:35] Charley Boyce: Yeah, so, um, DFW Yeah, a hundred percent. Totally different animal, um, than pretty much any other market in the country. Um, that one too was a little opportunistic in that, you know, we talk about consolidation.
There's a lot of private equity in the space. Uh, a lot of 'em are not doing well, and so we're, we're independently owned. Like we're, we're, it's me, like we're focused on. The business, we're focused on doing it the right way. We [00:44:00] make 10 and 20 year decisions in private equity. It's very short term driven.
Mm-hmm. And so we, we, those companies run businesses differently than the way we do. If you're making 12 and 24 month decisions, you're gonna make different decisions and the incentive alignment is different.
[00:44:16] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:16] Charley Boyce: Then the way we think about the world. And so, um, basically in short, in 2022, that was a failed private equity rollup.
It was a, a private equity company that put four kind of independent companies together. Just thought, Hey, we will stitch these four companies together. Uh, one was commercial, one was new construction, and two were service and replacement. So it's like four totally different strategies. Four different owners, four different founders, and really kind of struggled out of the gate.
Um, so, you know, they had been doing that for a couple years. We stepped in that business to get it turned around. Um, I can tell you I don't wanna do another turnaround. We learned, we've learned a lot. Um, the business is doing well now. We have good people down there. We, we've turned the business. Um, so now we're like in build mode.
But, you know, in that turnaround, [00:45:00] like you had to cut deeper than you thought. And it takes longer than you thought. Um, so like I said, I don't wanna do another turnaround. Um, but DFW specifically, I'll tell you like we run in a lot of good market. We're in 10 right now. Um. If you can be successful in DFW, like you can be successful anywhere.
And so where we've benefited is take what makes you successful in DFW and you go take that to Hot Springs, Arkansas or Springfield, Missouri, like you're playing at a level that most people don't know how to play at just because it's so competitive
[00:45:31] Nick Beyer: in, in DFW. So double click on that. I mean, what, what has made you successful, competitive in a market like that?
[00:45:37] Charley Boyce: So, I mean, if we take Northwest Arkansas, right, um, we've been blessed enough to grow the business. Um, a lot of times our reputation precedes us. Like customers know what to expect when they call Pascal. Uh, let's just take the summertime, for example. If, if we're doing a, a change out, which would mean we're taking systems out and we're putting another one in, you know, in Northwest we'll probably do like 15 to 20 change [00:46:00] outs a day in the, the summertime, well, there's periods of time where we might be two weeks out or maybe three weeks out, and customers will wait because, you know, of, of, of the reputation we've earned in Dallas, like no chance.
Um, the expectation is you will do it the next day and if you won't, 15 others will. Mm-hmm. And so it's, it's, it's more transient. It's, it's, it's, uh, there's not a lot of loyalty or customers are not gonna wait. And so. It's speed, speed, speed. And you have to be the fastest. Mm-hmm. And so that has really made us think hard about our organization and how can we do it fast?
And nobody should be able to do it faster than us, right? Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of the, the standard. So we've really in it's speed to lead. And so if we, if we sell a job Tuesday at four o'clock, like we're putting it in on Wednesday, and that's the standard. Mm-hmm. And so we've been able to take like that level of urgency and apply that to the rest of the business.
[00:47:00] Um, so that's probably the main thing. I mean, there are times in Dallas. Where you might sell a job at three or four o'clock in the afternoon and you are going to go do it the next day and you go out there to do it and it's already been done.
[00:47:12] Cameron Clark: Wow.
[00:47:12] Charley Boyce: And like, and so I'm saying like 12 hours. And so obviously that's not the norm.
But
[00:47:17] Nick Beyer: yeah,
[00:47:17] Charley Boyce: the, that does happen in DFW. So that is like, that's how you have to win in DFW. If you tell someone, Hey, new system, I'll be there next week. Like zero chance.
[00:47:28] Cameron Clark: That's crazy. And so talk about the, the team in, in this time period too. Like, I dunno if you call it leadership team or if there's a team that was like traveling to these different, different cities.
Um, did you already have that here? Were you built rebuilding that? Um, I imagine you kind of have some like kind of core legacy folks here that have been through everything, but talk about that.
[00:47:51] Charley Boyce: Yeah, I have a, have a great team, very blessed, very fortunate. Um, you know, there's, there's a couple. There's three guys that were [00:48:00] here before me.
Um, those guys are, are still around. One of which Brent Quila, he's on the leadership team. He's gone from Service Tech to HVAC service manager in northwest Arkansas to running our northwest Arkansas operation to now director of Operations where all the locations in GMs report up with him. So he's been able to grow and scale with the business.
We have, like Jeff Wagner has been here for 40 plus years, our longest tenured employee. Wow. Um, so yeah, Jeff has seen a lot of changes through the years. Toby Williams still here on the service side. So we, we've had really good people. We've added a lot of great people along the way. Um, some of the old Razorbacks that I played with, um, you know, there, there's a number of athletes that are still here that, that have been here for.
There's a, a really, a really good core group. Um. People that have been here for 10 plus years now, uh, probably 10, 15, 20 of us that have been here for over a decade. So there's a good core group. Like I said, over the last 3, 4, 5 years, we've added a lot of great people along the way. The leadership team has grown.
Um, but did we have it? [00:49:00] No. Like we growing pains, like we've had
[00:49:03] Cameron Clark: a lot of growing pains. Talk about what, what advice would you give someone who is trying to build that right now? Um, the leadership team, the, the team that's gonna, like, help you in the, in the scale cycle?
[00:49:16] Charley Boyce: Yeah, great question. Um, I think it depends on where they're at in the cycle and ultimately what they want to do, where they want to go.
Are they aligned? Um, you know, uh, an analogy that I heard early that I really liked is, you go to war with the army, you got not the one that you want. And so I think as I think back in my time, um, I'm not the most patient person. And so back then you would look and you'd want to go do all these things, and it's like, all right, if I could just do this, or if I could just do that, or, you know, you, you see all these areas of opportunities and you wanna go do it all.
Mm-hmm. But you're capital constrained. You can only afford to invest in one area, and you probably can't even invest in that area as deep as you want to go. Mm-hmm. And so it's just doing those one things at a, [00:50:00] at a time, I think is challenging. But it, it takes time. I mean, it's, yeah, it, it does. Nothing happens overnight.
Mm-hmm.
[00:50:08] Nick Beyer: That's really cool. Um, go, going back to the acquisitions here. Um, talk about your strategy with them. What were you looking for? Was it values in the, in the owner's, founders? Was it size of EBITDA from three to 10 or like what, what were the parameters as you were out 2020 to 2024. Hunting for.
Acquisitions.
[00:50:33] Charley Boyce: Yeah. 2020 just came to us and that Mark Simpson was ready to retire. 21 we did Fort Smith. Uh, that was a greenfield. So 2022 is when we did four acquisitions in 23, you know, 20, 24. We did too much. Like we got out over our skis, uh, and we needed to, we were going through system conversion, just the whole nine.
So we needed to digest. 23 and 24, what we did in 22. So in 23 and 24, it's been a a lot more, like, it's [00:51:00] been a little bit more prudent. And so in 23 we did one acquisition, and that was in Springfield. It had two locations, Springfield, Missouri, St. Joseph, Missouri. In 24 we did our first Oklahoma acquisition.
That was Oklahoma City. Uh, then in 25 this year we, we've done a little acquisition in DFW and then we green fielded a, a shop in Little Rock, Arkansas. Mm. 'cause we were in Hot Springs, we were in Ccy. So it just made sense to, to go to Little Rock. So that's kind of where we're at today, which is 10 locations, 400 people.
Um, so we're continuing to kind of grow through acquisitions. But to your question, um, you know, I would say early it was. Personal network. Uh, we just know people in the space and, and guys ready to retire. I would say we've, we didn't know what we were doing early. Uh, we've gotten better with each one, so, uh, we've learned a lot along the way.
We've made all the mistakes in 23. That one went really well. 24, that one's gone really well. So, kinda where we're at today, what we look for in an acquisition [00:52:00] is kind of an ideal acquisition for us. Is mix and culture, which means we're looking for a company in a good metro, an adjacent metro, right, an adjacent metro where they're focused on service, which is like service and replacement, and it's a good culture fit.
So that's what we kind of bias towards. And usually it's a, it's a founder, you know, maybe mid sixties, ready to retire. That's not all of them, but a lot, 80% of them have been, you know, a guy that's ready to retire. Um, I've grown it to the level at which I can grow it. Um, 2, 3, 5, $8 million in revenue. And, um, I care deeply about my customers.
It's my baby, it's my name, it's my legacy, my employees, my community. I want to turn it over to somebody that comes from the space. Like you're an operator. I'm not a private equity finance guy. Um, somebody with a track record that no is gonna, you know, like do good things with the company. So for us, that's what we focus on is like, what is [00:53:00] the service?
Like, what's the mix of the business look like? What's the culture of the business look like? What's the, how's the founder? Um, that's what we're focused on. We're not trying to go, um, buy a big new construction company or a like, that doesn't, it's too much change when we come in. 'cause basically what I wanna do is here's the playbook, if you will, that you guys are already running.
We think about the world the same way. We're just gonna throw gas on it. Mm-hmm. Like, we know how to go from two to five to 10 to 20, and let's, then we have all the systems built, like we've built recruiting, we've built it, we've built marketing. Like we've built all the systems and the functions that are very hard when you're, when you're, I know 'cause we've done it, but like when you're $5 million and you're just, you're wearing all the hats, right?
Yeah. Um, so we've, for whatever reason, we've been able to like, grow through that. So it's, here's what you're doing today, let's go do it at a much higher level. And it needs to be a better experience for the employees and a better experience for the customers. Otherwise you can't expect them to stick around.
Mm-hmm. So that's how we think about acquisitions.
[00:53:57] Nick Beyer: That's good. And then talk about the integration. So are the [00:54:00] founders staying on for a couple years? Is it different by acquisition? What does their involvement look like? Um. Yeah, just talk, talk, talk a little bit about that.
[00:54:09] Cameron Clark: Yeah.
[00:54:10] Nick Beyer: Do you keep the name, you know, we've got Walker, straight Shooter, Larson.
Do you just roll it into Pascal?
[00:54:16] Charley Boyce: Yeah. So we, we do it a little bit different than most, like I said, we're, we're long term. Um, so it's 10 locations, all Pascal, all one system, all one, uh, CRM, it, we go deep in the integration. Um, all of these con like private equity companies and all the consolidation, none of them are integrated.
It's all just like a confederation of assets. It's just a bunch of, it's a house cards, it's terrible, right? And so it's just like a bunch of these companies and they stick 'em all together and then they trade out of 'em. Um, that's what they're doing. Nothing wrong with that. It's just understand like incentive alignment and structure.
Yeah. For us, this is why I say like, if you're gonna make 10 and 20 year decisions, you make different decisions Yeah. Than if you're making 12 month mm-hmm. Decisions. And so we go deep on [00:55:00] integration. We front load the pain, we do it the right way. And so the good news for us, like where we are, is. It's 400 people.
It's all one brand. Like everyone's rowing together. We have the ability, it's consolidated front, back, and middle office. Um, it's one call center. It's, it's, it's just all one team. There's different locations, certainly, but it's, it's all one team. Um, we have the ability to build density. And so as an example, like if our Springfield team is light and we have more work in Joplin, we're able to shift resources from one geography to the other.
So we go very deep on integration. Um, you know, we take on, they take on the name of Pascal. Um. We, we focus on that, you know, um, sometimes there's a little bit of pause, you know, like, Hey, whatcha gonna do with the name? It's like, well, it's gonna become Pascal. Um, here's why. Mm-hmm. And with the customers, you know, they just, all customers want the same thing.
Like they want great customer service. And whether it be, you know, like a Larson like you mentioned, [00:56:00] or a Pascal as long when that same technician shows up and does a great job and hopefully does a better job because we got better resources, like customers stick around as long as you, here's the level of service that I'm used to.
And as long as you can meet or exceed that, like customers stick around.
[00:56:15] Nick Beyer: That's good. So all these acquisitions happened, it sounds kind of like you said, 19 to 22 is the peak. I mean, a majority of your acquisitions happened in the peak of private equity, rollups. How did you compete against them? And I mean, assume the multiples maybe have changed, but how, how were you competitive on a person who's getting ready to retire and once.
The best price for their business that they can get.
[00:56:41] Charley Boyce: Yeah. Um, so yeah, we did four in twenty two, one twenty three, one twenty four, call it two here in 25. With that Greenfield, we're honestly just getting started. Um, we're about to accelerate the m and a over the next couple years 'cause we had a lot to learn kind of along the way.
So really our business, like Paal, we're at an inflection point where we're really getting ready [00:57:00] to, to get out and go. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, I mean, I can talk about this for a while. So it's, um, we're, we're operator focused. We built for the long term, um, private equity's going out there, like they're all playing this multiple arbitrage game.
It's all, you know, they're generating returns by financial engineering, which is I'm gonna buy all these companies at four times this, five times that, seven times this, I'm gonna stick 'em all together and then I'm gonna trade out at eight or 10 or 12. Right. That, like, that's not the game that we're playing.
And so for us, what I'm focused on is cultural alignment and the company. Where we've done well is with founders that care deeply about customers, community, and, and what is the forward looking prospects of the business like, look like we're operators. And so if it's a founder that's looking to just like top tick the market and toss you the keys, like that's not our guy.
[00:57:52] Cameron Clark: Yeah.
[00:57:52] Charley Boyce: Um, so we're not gonna compete on Bryce because. We're not, we don't have leverage on the business. We're not gonna over lever the business. We're not [00:58:00] gonna put the business in a, in a poor situation moving forward. Um, so yeah, if, if it's someone that just wants to top tick the market, that's not our guy.
And we certainly need to be competitive. It's unreasonable for us to think. You know, some founders are gonna take a 50% discount. So, um, yeah, that was, that was when it was at the peak. Multiples have certainly come down, um, in 23, 24, 25. Um, it's incredibly tough in our industry. Like a lot of them are hurting.
Um, so like the world's finally coming back to us. Mm-hmm. Which is more or less, I think was our view.
[00:58:32] Cameron Clark: And are, have these deals all kind of been structured differently? Or, or you've kind of like tried things and found, hey, maybe there's a, a, a structure that works better? Better for us?
[00:58:41] Charley Boyce: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Uh, so we buy a hundred percent of the companies asset purchases. Um, so they get folded into us. Um, most founders move on and retire, like I said, usually they're in their sixties looking for retirement. Um, a couple of them weren't. Some of them are just burnout. Like it's incredibly hard to do. Uh, so we've had a couple [00:59:00] guys in their forties, fifties that have said, Hey, I've taken it as far as I can take it, um, like our Oklahoma City acquisition.
Great guy, William, summer Hester. He was like, man, in his words, uh, former Marine, just a, a really good guy. Um, I guess you probably know a former Marine. He's a Marine. Um, and his view was like, man, I feel like I'm sending my kid off to college. Wow. I've built this thing for 15 years. I've worn all these hats.
I've taken as far as I can take it, and my guys and girls, like they need, they need better opportunities. And so, uh, Willie transitioned into another like industry entirely. Um, so yeah, I would say most owners don't stick around because they go to the next chapter, retire or what have you.
[00:59:40] Nick Beyer: That's really cool.
Um, let's talk a little bit about, and I know other services that I've seen on your website, indoor air quality, water quality commercial services, and then your memberships. Are those big pieces of your business? Are those newer parts of your business? How, how do you think about those? Yeah. How do you think about [01:00:00] those?
[01:00:00] Charley Boyce: Yeah, no, good question. Um, I would say the last couple years, yes, year or two, we've really focused on. Educate, inform, offer solutions, operational excellence around break fix, which is, you know, customers call my water heater's busted. You know, my drains are backing up. You know, my HKC system doesn't work.
We go out there, you know, we fix what needs to be fixed and we need to get 'em under, uh, maintenance agreements. And so we've always had memberships. Uh, same thing as like maintenance agreement. So we, we've always had memberships. Um, if you, let's say it's summertime and let's just say there's a hundred service calls on the board.
Like, Hey, my AC unit's broken and I need someone to come fix it. Um, if we have a hundred service calls on the board, 95 of those don't have maintenance. Like our members, like our maintenance agreement customers, like they're not calling us in the summer with broke down systems. And so. Focused on like routine maintenance of mechanical systems, that's not necessarily a new thing.
Um, [01:01:00] we've been doing that for years, so now we've really increased the focus around memberships over the last couple years and make sure we're really, really good at, at. Like, we should have as much value as possible in that membership. Um, so we're, there's been a big membership focus over the last couple years to build the membership base because as you have those members, if they have problems, they're not calling anyone else like they're calling you.
And so, um, that is our view on memberships is memberships are good for everybody. It's good for the homeowners in that they're keeping their systems maintained, they're extending the life of their systems. They're not gonna have problems, they have peace of mind. Um, it's good for our technicians in that we have work year round, not just when it's super hot or super cold.
And obviously it's good for the company because when the, you know, employees are happy, customers are happy, everyone's doing well. And so it's literally good for everybody. Um, it's not like you make a ton of money on memberships, but it keeps your guys moving. And that's what it's, it's not like this big revenue [01:02:00] generating thing, but it's good for the customers, it's good for your guys, so you should do it.
Uh, so that's focused on memberships and then yeah, we've, we've focused more on what are other things that we can be doing that customers want to take advantage of. Um, so we would have people that would do a lot of research and they'd be really focused on air quality or really focused on water filtration.
And we were getting the, the calls and the demand for this. We just weren't doing a good enough job of educating the rest of the customer base. Mm-hmm. So these are things that we've done here and there along the way, but we haven't done a good enough job of just kind of like broadcasting here are the things that are available to you.
So give examples, is that like an
[01:02:36] Nick Beyer: RO system? Is that like. Give give
[01:02:38] Charley Boyce: for people who aren't
[01:02:40] Nick Beyer: familiar with, yeah.
[01:02:41] Charley Boyce: Good. Um, yeah, on the water side, yeah. Water filtration. Water treatment. You got water coming in. What does that look like? It could be reverse osmosis. What are we treating the water? What's the scale look like?
Um, so a lot on the water side, a lot on the indoor air quality side. Uh, I think COVID kind of helped
[01:02:59] Nick Beyer: [01:03:00] bring a lot
[01:03:00] Charley Boyce: of this stuff to life, but, um, there's a lot of things we can do in air quality. Uh, whether it be duct ceiling, whether it be. The cleaning, whether it be adding insulation, I mean, you don't think about this, but we go in there and we're, you know, an average system, maybe it lasts 12, 15 years.
And so we go in there and we're replacing a system and people spend a lot of money on these systems, and they're 10 and 15, $20,000. Uh, but then a lot of times the insulation is 15 years old and it has settled. Mm-hmm. So let's protect that investment. Let's over blow the insulation. Like let's insulate the, like, let's insulate the house, uh, the way it used to be, right?
Mm-hmm. Let's get it back up to code. So it's adding insulation, it's duct ceiling, it's duct cleaning. There's like indoor air. There's uv, there's a lot of different things you can do to treat the air. Um, people don't think about this, that, you know, the air outside is much cleaner than the air you breathe inside.
But yet we spend all our time inside. Yeah. So, like I said, COVID I think did a lot on the indoor air quality side, like just raise awareness. It's, it's the same on the, on the water side. [01:04:00] Hmm. That's good. I
[01:04:02] Cameron Clark: was gonna say, let's transition. Yeah. Bring it to, yeah. Let transition to now here. So, um, I think you talked about, hey, business is, uh, uh, we've, what you're calling an inflection point.
Hey, we're gonna double down on an m and a. Um, what, what else? Kind of in the, in, in the net, like what's the now focus and I mean that and, and anything else here too. Um,
[01:04:24] Charley Boyce: yeah, so for us, um, it, it's kind of the, the, this is the industry as a whole. So basically what's happened is, um, consolidation has been very big in our industry, right?
Like, if you think about Northwest Arkansas, there's Pascal, there are other players out there. They're all PE backed, like nobody's locally owned anymore. Maybe one or two. Um. But there's, there's Pascal and there's been this big consolidation movement. Well, the challenge is that that's not great for customers.
It's not great for the employees. Um, so we have a really unique moment in time to where [01:05:00] we can go to new markets. And a lot of these companies that, that used to be great companies have traded out. The founders have exited, you get new guys in there, they're owned by private equity. I can't say that that's a great employee experience or customer expo, uh, experience.
So we have this very unique moment in time, very, very good opportunity for us that we're gonna continue to grow and scale. And so for us, 10 locations, 400 people, uh, we're gonna get to where we're doing 2, 5, 7, 8 acquisitions a year. Mm-hmm. Um, in just in the next market over. It's Tulsa, it's Wichita, it's Des Moines, it's Waco.
So like, we're gonna keep growing organically and inorganically. Um, so yeah, that's what we're gonna focus on this business like we're, this regional structure is starting to take shape. Um, so we're focused on that. This off season, kind of putting the regional structure in place. We need to make sure we have the bones, um, that we can continue to grow.
Mm-hmm. You know, and double every two to three years. So it's, it's out there. We have the ability to go do it. We just, we gotta go do it.
[01:05:59] Cameron Clark: And when you say [01:06:00] like, get the, the regional bones, you're talking about like having like managers for certain regions and just the right, the right folks in place there?
Is that what you're alluded to? Yeah.
[01:06:08] Charley Boyce: Yeah. So basically if I think about Missouri, like right now in Missouri we have Joplin, Missouri, we have Springfield, Missouri, we have St. Joseph, Missouri, which now north of, of Kansas City. Okay. We don't currently operate in Kansas City. We should be in Kansas City, hopefully spring of 2026.
So we're, we're focused on what does Kansas City need to look like this last year, uh, peak season for us, may, June, July and August. Mm-hmm. You know, peak last year we trialed having kind of a regional gm, if you will. So we had one guy that oversaw all three of those locations. So this regional structure is starting to take place to where the business is starting to get regionalized.
Mm-hmm. You know, you can't have say 10 GMs reporting up to one director of operations. Yeah. So that's kind what I mean when I say like, regionalized the business.
[01:06:55] Cameron Clark: Yeah.
[01:06:55] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[01:06:56] Cameron Clark: No, that's very interesting.
[01:06:58] Nick Beyer: Can you talk about how [01:07:00] hard it is to run a multi-state operation? Have there been, and especially, I mean, you talked about at the beginning, you're the license holder, there's licenses, requirements, I assume, in different states.
Just how complex is that?
[01:07:15] Charley Boyce: Yeah, it's super complex. Um, I know we sit here and like talk about it. Um, I don't want to sound like flippant by any Sure. By any stretch. Um, it's incredibly hard to do, but you have to, I mean, for me it's just my own personal thing. Um, like you have to love it.
[01:07:30] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm. And if
[01:07:31] Charley Boyce: you, if you don't love it, like it's gonna chew you up and spit you out.
Um, I love it. And there's nothing else I'd rather go do. And so for, I think, I mean this business here is, it's not rocket science. Like it's, it's problem solving and pain tolerance. Mm-hmm. Like if you can just keep doing that like day over day, week over week, it compounds. But you have to love it. And if you don't love it, you shouldn't do it.
Um. So, yeah, the, the smart person probably doesn't do it, but like, if you truly just enjoy the build and who you get to [01:08:00] do it with, there's nothing else you'd rather go do. But it's, it's, it's very difficult to go do, for sure.
[01:08:05] Nick Beyer: That's good. And then I, I'd say you have one of the more unique businesses of the 25, 26 founders we've interviewed.
Now we've had a few, I'd say, on your level of capital intensive business. So you, and I don't know how this works. You tell me if I'm wrong, but if you're purching purch purchasing these h you know, these units from Supply House, then you go install them at a customer's house, there's some, there's some cash flow that's needed to float from here to here.
So that's on one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is you're trying to rip a couple acquisitions a year, sounds like more in the future. So how, how, how do you balance that scale from a capital perspective? And I think you have, and I, and I ask that you have a very unique perspective, um. Across all the founders we've interviewed.
So
[01:08:56] Charley Boyce: I'd be curious to like drill down on the unique perspective, but to your question, [01:09:00] capital intensive. Yes. So, um. Gotta have gas in the tank, right? Like we gotta have working capital. The good for, so for us residential service and replacement, we cash flow very well. Hmm. Um, so there's a lot of costs and it's a lot of capital.
You know, we, we pay our guys extremely well. Equipment is not cheap. Material is not cheap. So, I mean, it's, it's tens of tens and tens of millions of dollars that we spend to run the business. And so, but the good news is, you know, it's service calls, it's replacements, you know, we do those jobs and we get paid.
Right. Then commercial, that's 30, 60, 90 days. It's long sales cycle, it's long projects. It's retainage, it's, that's why I don't like that business. Mm-hmm. Um, because we're not good at it. And I don't, I don't wanna mess with that. I just wanna focus on taking care of the customers, do a great job, make 'em happy, do work today, get paid today.
Um, that's what we're focused on. And so very capital intensive. And, um, but we cashflow [01:10:00] pretty well. Like our ar needs to be dialed. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't want to be a bank. Mm-hmm. And so we cashflow pretty well on the residential service and replacement side, but yes, we need to be making enough money that we can then invest and grow.
And so I think it comes down to what's your goals? And so when I say I've never taken a dollar out of the business, I mean it because every single dollar that the business has generated, that is what is then used to build this facility or buy the next company or do. The things. And so for us, for me, it's live well below your means, continue to just double down and build the business.
Um, that's not for everybody. Mm-hmm. That's the way we think about it. And so the business needs to be doing well enough that we have money to then reinvest and go to the next market over, go to the next market over. Mm-hmm. And then we can bring the paal playbook to the next market.
[01:10:53] Cameron Clark: Mm-hmm.
[01:10:53] Charley Boyce: I enjoy that, dude.
I enjoy the grind. I enjoy the build. When you get to see like your people [01:11:00] be successful, there's no better feeling. Like when our guys and girls, like when they buy their first house or put a kid through college or get outta debt or sign their first lease, I don't care whenever they do something that they probably, perhaps, maybe would not have otherwise been able to do.
There's n that's why that's, that to me is like the absolute best thing that you can do.
[01:11:19] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm. So good. So you walk in tomorrow to this facility. What are the KPIs that you're looking at currently? What, what are those things?
[01:11:32] Charley Boyce: Uh, it depends, like, it, it, the way this business is ran, it depends on like who you are and what level that you're operating at.
So philosophically, the business Pascal, like we're, we're data driven. We take a lot of, you know, the sports type stuff, and we put it to, to use in here. So this, this is a team game. This is a team sport. And so every department, like we have our KPIs, we have our scoreboards. Like I want to know are we winning or losing?
And that's how we think about KPIs. So if I'm in the call center for take, [01:12:00] like as an example, we know how many calls do we have hooked up? You know, we average 12, 1500 phone calls a day, uh, in the summertime. And we know our booking percentage, you know, by hour, by location, by, you know, CXR. So any department, like we want to know what does success look like?
What are the stats around that? And so if I go into middle office fulfillment, like coordinators, dispatchers, we should be able to walk into that department and know, are we win or losing? Like what's the score? Hmm.
[01:12:27] Cameron Clark: If,
[01:12:27] Charley Boyce: if our people have to ask, am I doing well? Are we winning, are we losing? Like that's a failure on our side.
Um, so that's how we think about the business. So. I wanna push as much information to the org as the, that person in the org can responsibly handle. So if I'm in the call center, I know what good looks like. If I'm in middle office, I know what good looks like. If I'm in accounting, I know what, like what I'm stretching towards.
If I'm a technician, I know the KPIs that are important to me. Hopefully it's just two to three. Like, let's keep it simple. Um, GMs and regional leaders, [01:13:00] they know what they're looking at. Uh, for me, I know what I'm looking at, like, how's the business doing? What's the next market? How are we doing as a leadership team?
How's the business functioning? So it kind of varies by market. Um, certainly happy to like drill down into that if you, if you want to, but that's how we think about it. Good.
[01:13:16] Nick Beyer: And then I think it's, it's pretty clear from our conversation, but if someone's listening, they're like, well, you're just trying to expand in these markets.
Why don't you just franchise the business? Why have you chosen not to do that? Can you do that in your space? Kind of like what. Talk a little bit about that.
[01:13:31] Charley Boyce: Yeah. You know, there's some franchises in the business. Um, I don't know, I don't find it that interesting personally. Um, I want Pascal to continue to grow and scale with like-minded people, and maybe that changes one day.
I don't know. But I, yeah, I, I don't know. It's, it's, um, maybe there's something down the road where you find a really good, um, maybe someone's thinking about search fund or ETA or something like that, and it's a [01:14:00] totally different geography. It's the Carolinas or it's out west or something like that, and it's, Hey, you know, we know how to go from, you know, 10 to 50 to a hundred to what have you.
Uh, maybe there's something there, like kind of more of a, a partnership type thing. But right now, uh, I, yeah, I just hadn't really thought through.
[01:14:17] Nick Beyer: Cool. Anything else on the kind of current piece that you don't feel like we've
[01:14:21] Cameron Clark: No, I think that's great. And I think, I think you kind of talked about, you know, what's, what's next, like, what the, like where the, where everything's headed.
Um, and it sounds, I mean, it sounds super exciting, um, and it's cool that you're the based, based here in northwest Arkansas. So I assume like all the, the corporate team, if you call it that, are everybody's based here or you kind of is how, how do you have that structure now or for the future?
[01:14:44] Charley Boyce: Yeah, so I mean, 10 locations, Springdale, this is hq.
Yeah. Right. And so, um, like I said, consolidated front, back, middle office, so all the call center is based here. So we answer phones for, you know, all 10 locations here. Yeah. Um, [01:15:00] dispatch coordinators like fulfillment, that's all done here. Accounting is done here. Um, now we have people. We have different business functions, like different pieces of different business functions spread throughout.
You know, we have, um, our install coordinators in Joplin. We have a couple people in Oklahoma City. We have a couple people in Dallas. So the good news is, um, you know, there are people kind of spread throughout, but 80, 90% of like the, the opex side of the business, it's here. It's done here. Yeah. Hmm.
[01:15:31] Cameron Clark: Well, uh, the kind of getting towards, like wrapping up here, um, we asked a couple questions at the end of every, every episode.
The first being, uh, why build a business here in northwest Arkansas? So Charlie, why, why build a business here in northwest Arkansas?
[01:15:47] Charley Boyce: Uh, for me, um, like I said, I gotta school here. No one fell in love with the area. Um, so I knew that this was gonna be home for me. And, um, you know, like I said, [01:16:00] I. Grew up in small business, I was like, if I'm gonna do something, I'll probably try to build.
And so this is fell in love with the area. So if I'm gonna build, what better place to do it than, than here?
[01:16:10] Cameron Clark: Hmm. And then how do you define success?
[01:16:16] Charley Boyce: That's a good one. That's a good one. Um, yeah, success. I would say, um, over the years really kind of rev refine my view around the importance of alignment, um, like being aligned.
Um, so, you know, if you can get to where like total life is in alignment and the people you get to work with and be around, like as long as everyone's aligned, I think it's incredibly powerful. I think anytime you've had challenges or frictions, it's usually because of, um, expectations or you're out of alignment, right?
Like whether that's your personal life or with family or in business or, or what have you. So I think what I'm really focused on is just. Uh, I think we're pretty, [01:17:00] have a pretty good idea of what alignment looks like for us and just as we continue to grow and scale, making sure we, we, you know, we, we are all aligned.
So I think alignment number one. I think if I'm to make maybe another analogy, um, if I was to think through like baseball, I was never the most talented person ever. Um, but I had a really, really good college career and, um, we achieved a lot as a team. And as I look back on my college career, like I have a, or my baseball career, I guess I should say, I have a, a really just good like sense of peace around you left it all out there.
Mm-hmm. And I'm just, I don't really care about the outcome, but like, you left it all out there and like, that's enough. And so as I think about like on the professional side. I want us, you know, maybe one day we retire, but like, when that does happen, if it happens, like I want us to have the same level of peace around like our professional career.
That's why it's not an outcome, right? Yeah. It's, it's, we left it all out [01:18:00] there. We, we worked incredibly hard. We had a lot of fun in the process. We made great relationships, we made an impact. Um, the business should like be around, right? Yeah. Like we're stewards. It was here before us. It should be here after us if it lives and die with us.
What did we build? Um, so it needs to endure and, and like outlast all of us. Um, like that's what it should look like. So it's a sense of peace. Leave it all out there, have a lot of fun in the process, and maintain healthy relationships. So I think it's like alignment, relationships and just play at a high level and have a lot of fun.
[01:18:31] Nick Beyer: So. Good. Well, one of the things we do at the end of every episode is we like to recap, uh, what we learned from you today, what we think our guests and our listeners will learn from you. And so I'll start with, um. And we talked quite a bit about it, but, but this idea of not being focused on the outcomes, and you look at really successful people in the, in the business world, and we've had a few different guests actually share that same sentiment as you is if you're focused on the outcomes, you're focusing [01:19:00] on the wrong thing and it'll always lead to disappointment.
And so it was just really, really good to, to hear you talk about it, talked about, you know, if you, you've got it, you don't hit it, you know, that's disappointing. But at the same time, if you're focused on the outcome, you're not actually focused on your clients and that should be the thing that drives the outcome.
So that was just a really awesome learning there. I think the second thing, and you, you've exuded it since we, before we even started the episode, and now is like you're a very focused guy. And I think we talked about it a little bit early on. When business starts to happen and growth starts to happen, let's add this service, let's do this, let's do this.
You have been very, very dialed in on what Pascal is good at, and I think that is so respectable, and as, as I reflect on my business, and I'm sure Cameron has like, being really focused on what we're gifted at and just trying to grow that gift, like it just seems like a recipe for [01:20:00] success. So thanks for sharing that and just doing that.
And I loved how you just said, we'll start with a neighborhood, we'll go to a zip code, we'll go to an area, and it's like, that's, it's just one step at a time. Um, so just really, really cool to learn that. And I think the last part, I think the biggest thing I'll take away is just your, uh, mindfulness around being long-term.
And I think your space, I mean it's, it's easy to see from the outside looking in all these, all these private equity roll-ups, et cetera. But. You know, you, you, you feel, you know, we're consumers. We live in this market and, and when you consume something that has private equity backing, and I'm not, not trying to tear them down, sure.
But it feels different than someone who owns the business. You're gonna run into at the grocery store, you're gonna bump into a church and there's just a different level of ownership there. And I think just hearing you talk about it, hearing how you talk, talking about growth. You're [01:21:00] building it to serve clients and to give them a world-class experience.
And I think if we take those things and we apply them to our individual businesses, we'll, we'll have a lot of success. So, Charlie Boyce, thank you so much for coming on today. Thanks for being a part of NWA Founders. If anyone wants to reach out to you or, or get in touch with you or learn more about pasal, where can they do that?
[01:21:20] Charley Boyce: Um, yeah, I guess LinkedIn. Uh, I'm not like super active on social stuff. Um, yeah, LinkedIn or email, which I don't know how we wanna do that. We put it in the chat or something. That's great. Yeah. Cool. That's great. Yeah. Cool. Thanks. Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate you.
[01:21:33] Cameron Clark: Thank you for listening to this episode of NWA Founders, where we sit down with founders, owners and builders driving growth here in northwest Arkansas.
For recommendations are to connect with us, reach out at nwa, founders@gmail.com. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, then please consider leaving a rating, a review, and sending it to someone who you think would benefit from it. We'll see you in the next [01:22:00] episode.