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[00:00:00] Announcer: This is the Build A Vibrant Culture Podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and insights you need to turn your dreams into your destiny. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer, interviews leadership and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development. Now, here's your host, a professional speaker, coach, and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:29] Nicole: Welcome everybody to the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and I want to help you "Build a Vibrant Culture." And today I have a fantastic guest, one of my fellow HR professionals, I have Carrol on the show today. Let me read you a little bit about Carrol. Carrol Ostendorf is a people first leader-- don't miss that. That's what you want somebody to say about you-- who believes authenticity is the foundation of meaningful leadership. With more than 20 years of experience in human resources, operations, and community advocacy, she brings a unique blend of empathy, clarity, and discipline to every role she steps into. Her work is guided by the belief that when people are seen, heard, and supported, they thrive.
[00:01:14] That is fantastic. She wants to help people at work and beyond. As the HR and operations manager at Delta |v| Forensic Engineering, Carrol focuses on building healthy values-driven teams while overseeing key initiatives such as employee engagement strategies, multi-state operations and compliance frameworks.
[00:01:35] Whether launching company-wide programs or mentoring team members, she consistently leads with transparency, inclusion and respect. Carrol's diverse professional background includes managing complex care operations at ResCare, growing client relationships and retention and advocating for public health policy through her work with the American Heart Association. No matter the role, her strength lies in bringing people together around shared goals and creating spaces where everyone can succeed.
[00:02:04] And here is one of those things, like you won't believe this, especially when you take a look at her blonde, beautiful, all these things, right? She is a lifelong martial artist and black belt in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Carrol brings discipline, resilience, and presence to both her personal and professional life. She co-founded a self-defense program for women and children, has spent over a decade serving her community through volunteer advocacy, supporting survivors of violence with safe passage, and representing the best interests of children as a guardian ad litem. A SHRM certified Professional -Society for Human Resource Management Professional- and a Clemson University graduate, Carrol is known for her authenticity, integrity, and unwavering belief that people are at the heart of any successful organization. Welcome to the show, Carrol. You are epic. Yes. Yeah, so we need to know, how did you get into Jiu-jitsu? Was this like your brother was like, your mother's like, I'm dropping off your brother, so you're going to go too, or, what was the story?
[00:03:03] Carrol Ostendorf: No, I I danced as a young person and so dance was my "thing." There was actually a martial arts school next door to my dance studio, and I used to look in the window and think-
[00:03:18] Nicole: That's great.
[00:03:19] Carrol Ostendorf: That's cool. But it wasn't until my daughter was born, who's now 20 that I got scared one time in a parking lot. She was about five weeks old. It was the first time I had taken the new baby out, and everything was fine, but I just heard this noise and I realized in that moment, like I don't know what I would do and I have no plan. And I went home, I told my husband I don't know how to fight. And, you know, he laughed and he is like, no--
[00:03:51] Nicole: You're right.
[00:03:53] Carrol Ostendorf: And so then I just applied myself to it and I did a few different things over the years and about 12 years ago, got into Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and stayed there and love it. And it's a great thing for women to do, not just the guys. So I encourage women to get involved and learn all the different cool things their bodies can do.
[00:04:18] Nicole: That is fantastic. So if you met somebody in a dark hallway that was trying to get you, you could just flip 'em over and ka-cha and put 'em right.
[00:04:25] Carrol Ostendorf: I would probably go away. I would remove myself from that environment. It would be my first step. But if for some reason I couldn't, then yes, I could throw 'em over my shoulder.
[00:04:37] Nicole: That is fantastic. Okay. Listen, all you HR people. You gotta go to Jiu-jitsu in case you have to throw somebody over your shoulder. Remove yourself first. Don't miss that.
[00:04:46] Carrol Ostendorf: That, that is not our first step.
[00:04:48] Nicole: Right, right. Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay. So Carrol and I met when I was speaking at a SHRM meeting, Society for Human Resource meeting. And I think that we just both love this human resource thing so stinking much and love taking care of people. So, I just felt like it was such a good fit for her to come on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast because she is doing so many cool things in her organization. So, first of all, I think your company does something really unique. So will you give a shout out to all the good things that your company's doing. Delta |v|. Talk about it a second.
[00:05:21] Carrol Ostendorf: Yeah, so we are the go-to firm for resolving high stakes vehicle accidents. And our team, we have a few different engineering departments, but they can take an accident, they can take the vehicle, the site, data about what happened biomechanically, the people part of it, they can tell the story of what happened. You know, we have clients who need to know what happened in these scenarios and they need someone to build that out for them. And we have a great team.
[00:06:00] Nicole: Yeah, so like in the middle of the night they get called out and they're doing all these things, and checking it all out. Yeah. You're working with some really smart folks, doing some really great things. But here's what Carrol and I both know: our people may know the technical side of the job, but they also need this leadership piece, right? And how to be a good teammate and all those kind of things. And so, you have a desire to build kind of a, a university. Will you talk about how that kind of started? I know you have a leader inside your organization, as well, who is like, we gotta do this! Which, hello? It can happen.
[00:06:33] Carrol Ostendorf: Having that person on the executive team who is your champion, that is what's going to make something successful.
[00:06:43] Nicole: Right.
[00:06:43] Carrol Ostendorf: So our COO had this idea, it wasn't any of us. It was him and he really believed in it. And it was this great idea that just sort of sat there and we kept saying, we need to do that, we need to do that. But it didn't happen because people were busy. And so, what we did was we brought in this amazing intern who has now been promoted to our corporate management associate, but she was a college grad. She's taking couple of gap years before law school. And super motivated and amazing. And we said this is your project. And that was what we needed. We needed that new person to come in and be excited about this and have the bandwidth to do it. And she has pulled it all together and you know, managed the project. But the most amazing thing that she's done is she has engaged all of our engineers and our team members to be a part of this project. One of the things that we've done successfully over the past couple years is start to bring people outside of our corporate team in as we do new projects so that we have other voices at the table and people feel included. And so, Morgan was able to bring in all these people and all these engineers and get 'em excited about it. And they really are excited. And I've never seen that type of excitement before in my work environment. And it's because it's something they geek out about. It's their technique, it's their process. It's all the things that they've learned over their careers. And they're excited to pass that on. And we've been able to create these opportunities for some of our newer employees as well. So we have some engineering associates brand new professional engineers who are even doing videos and a teaching thing. So we've been able to bring so many different people in. And there's this other role we have called a client engagement staff member, and they're the heartbeat at Delta |v|. Everything runs through our client engagement staff. They run the projects, they run scheduling of people and resources and everything, and even they are getting to make videos and trainings.
[00:09:24] So that's been really fun to see it come together and we are about to launch. I couldn't be more pleased with how a group of people have rallied around an idea.
[00:09:35] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just sitting here grinning because you know, the thing is, we have other organizations where the HR team says, Hey, we're going to have training. And people go, is it mandatory?
[00:09:47] Carrol Ostendorf: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:48] Nicole: And, and don't miss what Carrol just said. She's like, we have people who are in the field, making the training videos, making sure that it's the right thing to be training and the right things to do. And it's really like a multiple, multiple stakeholders are at work. I just celebrate that. Y'all are doing great work.
[00:10:06] Carrol Ostendorf: It's been really fun and it's been fun to watch this young associate come in, Morgan, and just take the reins of the project and, and corral all these engineers. She's been pretty amazing to watch.
[00:10:21] Nicole: Yeah, and I'm going to say something that could be spicy, but like when you guys hear a bunch of excited engineers, you might be thinking, what?
[00:10:30] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes.
[00:10:31] Nicole: 'Cause the stereotype is they're very serious and they're calculating things with their slide rule and they have their heads down and they are working. But in fact, if given the opportunity to celebrate, like you said, the work that people are doing and to make it even be better, I mean, that is right up in engineer's alley, right?
[00:10:49] Carrol Ostendorf: And we have some great teachers. We have some people who, if not engineers, I think they would've been teachers.
[00:10:58] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:10:58] Carrol Ostendorf: They're great at passing things on. And so they now have this platform and opportunity, so that's really cool to see.
[00:11:07] Nicole: And I don't know a human in the world that doesn't want every once in a while to take off like their engineering hat and put on their teaching hat, or to mix it up a little bit. It makes work exciting. It doesn't get boring and, um, it, it makes you have a little bit of sense of purpose too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So she's bragging on Morgan. I gotta tell you. I had lunch with Carrol and Morgan-- and Morgan, she's sitting there eating her salad. But buddy, she is on the job. She's asking the questions, she's getting the answers. She is so sharp. Yeah.
[00:11:36] So tell us all about the way you're trying to build a vibrant culture; you know, that's my lingo, vibrant culture. But to you what does the word vibrant mean to you? Or what kind of culture are you trying to build? Talk a little bit about what is it like, what are you doing?
[00:11:49] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes. We have this one manager, and he's the head of a department and he says the people are the special sauce at Delta |v|. And I really appreciated that from him because we have experts and it's those people who are the experts that make the difference in our cases. So because our people are the special sauce, we have to treat them that way and we have to help them be better and that kind of thing. So I think the first thing is that our team does recognize that people-- that's our product. And whether we're going to be successful or not is how we grow those people.
[00:12:35] So, that's the first thing is having that recognition. The other thing that we are doing that is new for us, but we are really excited about, is we are onboarding a client engagement manager and she starts in June, June 1st. And she is a 10 year employee here at Delta |v|. And so she is coming over from engineering side and she is going to be from the moment we tell a new hire, Hey, we want you, we want you on our team. She's going to come alongside them help them build the resource library that they need to be successful. And then she's also going to focus on building recognition here at Delta |v|.
[00:13:31] Nicole: Oh my God. That's so huge, recognition.
[00:13:34] Carrol Ostendorf: That's not something we've historically done well, and we've gotten some feedback on that. And so we know we want to do something with it and something meaningful, not pizza parties. And so
[00:13:48] Nicole: No more pizza parties.
[00:13:51] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes. So that's what Sam is going to come over to our corporate team and do for us. And it's also fun because I think it's really cool to bring people in to, you know, HR and corporate from the side where they've been doing the thing that pays our bills. Because I think they, they just bring this really unique perspective that helps us do better work. And so I'm excited about that. And I know she is going to do an amazing job. And we're at that point where we're still a small company, but we have offices in five states now, and we need to really make sure we're focusing on people so we don't lose them.
[00:14:39] Nicole: That's right. That's right. And it is not easy to find an engineer. In my company I do tons of recruiting and I get asked to find engineers, and then to do the special cool stuff where you gotta work in the middle of the night kind of engineer. That's a whole 'nother animal, right?
[00:14:54] Carrol Ostendorf: Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. And you know, finding people who are okay with our schedule and who are okay with some of the work we do, which can be hard because we are dealing with some things that can be hard to stomach and a little bit sad. And so, it's a really interesting blend of the kind of person who can come in and thrive in that environment.
[00:15:20] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And those of you who are listening are like, I'm looking for unicorns too, you know, 'cause that's what Carrol and Morgan and did you say her name was Sam that's coming? Yeah. Yeah. Oh I bet t hat's going to be the dynamic trio. I can feel it already.
[00:15:34] Carrol Ostendorf: Yeah, and we have one more team member, Maggie, who does all of our classic HR functions and activities. And she's been sort of the lone ranger in HR for a long time. So now she's going to have all this support and and we're really excited about that.
[00:15:52] Nicole: That's fantastic. Okay. Maggie does payroll? Is that what she does?
[00:15:55] Carrol Ostendorf: She does payroll, she...
[00:15:58] Nicole: And we love Maggie!
[00:16:00] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes, she is in charge of hiring, and just everything that is classic HR benefits.
[00:16:07] Nicole: HR generalist on steroids.
[00:16:09] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes. Yeah. So she's our HR manager and does an amazing job. And I know that having this new help and support is going to make just a huge difference.
[00:16:20] Nicole: Absolutely. And you know, and here's the thing about being an HR professional: you're like, this is what I'm going to do today. You're on it. You're like...
[00:16:28] Carrol Ostendorf: That's your plan... but--
[00:16:29] Nicole: That's what I'm doing. Right? And then it's just like, where did the day go? I've been spending all day on this one thing. Right? Like the problem with payroll, or an employee needs our help or whatever the thing is. Yeah, that's so good And don't miss that. They're a small company and they're putting four people around people process. That's huge. Huge, huge, huge. Which is a big reason why people should want to come work for you guys, is the way that you guys are thinking.
[00:16:55] Okay. All right. So, what are you all doing to develop your people in the university? Talk a little bit about like, what are all the pieces and the parts and the experiences? If somebody came to work for you guys, what would they experience? What would that be like?
[00:17:11] Carrol Ostendorf: Yeah, so with this first launch we are launching like Engineering 101, basic training that we think is most critical for new hires to have. So that'll be in this first launch, and right now, to avoid scope creep, we're just keeping a list of all the other great ideas...
[00:17:33] Nicole: Right, right
[00:17:33] Carrol Ostendorf: that people have. Uh, 'cause, you know, that is a great idea. We're going to write that down. So, and then Maggie has been able to select a platform that had some HR trainings as well. The things that maybe aren't as awesome, but are still important.
[00:17:54] Nicole: That's right.
[00:17:55] Carrol Ostendorf: Like harassment trainings and things
[00:17:57] Nicole: like that.
[00:17:57] Oh yeah, we gotta do our compliance. I mean, that's just how it is. Yeah.
[00:18:00] Carrol Ostendorf: We've been able to find a platform that has some things to offer around that as well. So that's sort of the video piece of Delta |v| University. And then, we are also having, a focus on live trainings and people can register for these things through Delta |v| University. And the first thing we're doing this year is bringing in some leadership consultants. And we're going to talk about building high performing teams. And so all of our regional managers are coming in.
[00:18:37] Nicole: So good.
[00:18:38] Carrol Ostendorf: Our client engagement staff, several of our corporate staff members. So it's going to be a diverse mix, and we're going to divide into three different groups during the training that'll be your cohort that you'll go through the training with. And then there's going to be follow up after the training, some continued teams meetings and things like that. So it won't just be that one experience. And then the other thing that we're planning to do in the near future is training for our engineers with testimony and how to give testimony in court, some fun things like that. So we'll have that in-person piece as well. And then the final little bit is there's all these other courses that we often have to do for continuing education. Whether you're an engineer, or you're an HR professional, or a project manager, you're going to have continuing ed.
[00:19:31] Nicole: Right. Gotta keep your designation in place. That's right.
[00:19:34] Carrol Ostendorf: And so. We have people who have gone to just about every course under the sun, and they can tell you if it's a good one or it's not a good one. So we're building out a list of those kind of continuing ed opportunities and what we recommend and don't recommend and why, for helping us become the best professionals that we can be. So that's a little bit about all the different ways that we're trying to reach people.
[00:20:01] Nicole: Mm. So fantastic. Yeah. I love this Engineering 101, because that's also going to level set everybody, right? Because I've got this engineer that went to school there and had this experience and this experience and this experience, and wait, this is kind of how we do it, right? So, what Carrol's talking about is this really important thing of setting expectations. Right? I've got a quote that I love that I got from Don Carroll. He said "uncommunicated expectations are a premeditated opportunity to be disappointed." And I just think that is the best little thing that he's Yeah, isn't that good? I mean, it's like when I say that, people are like, say it again, I want to write it down.
[00:20:38] Yeah. And it's because if you tell people what you expect, they can rise to the expectation. If you don't tell 'em, you're just about to be upset about things because they're not doing what you want 'em to or how you want 'em to do it. Yeah. Or have the same philosophy. And like any professional course work that you do in this life you know, the company has to set that expectation.
[00:20:59] And the second thing I want to celebrate is this cohort model. So I'm going to say something about it, but I want to know more about the cohort model. I work with several companies that are doing universities and taking people through like a year long journey. And then there's a space of time and then they go through a second year, you know? And one's coming to mind is called Blum, they make slides for cabinetry and hinges for cabinetry. Well, we do this program called Expertise in Leadership Training, and then after a couple years you go through Advanced Leadership Training. And the people that are put together in that ELT and that ALT, they have worked for the company for like, oh, I've worked here 10 years, I've worked here 14 years. And then they'll be like, I never knew that about Carrol! All these years we worked together! It happens every time. So I mean, you think your people are bonded, but they need a place to come away from the work to really get to know each other and it shifts everything.
[00:21:58] Carrol Ostendorf: It does, and we have offices in different states.
[00:22:03] Nicole: Right!
[00:22:04] Carrol Ostendorf: And those folks have a lot to offer each other.
[00:22:08] Nicole: 100%.
[00:22:09] Carrol Ostendorf: Experiences and things like that, but they probably wouldn't necessarily think to reach out 'cause they just don't work together every day and they don't get the opportunity to build those relationships and connections. So I'm actually really excited about that piece and and having everybody kind of move through this together. And a lot of our engineers and corporate staff member who are in these leadership roles now, they were really good as individual contributors, and that might be why they were put into these manager roles, but they haven't had a lot of opportunity to grow and develop those skills. And because we are billing and working, it's easy to not make time for that. And so I'm really glad that we're going to start that as part of Delta |v| University.
[00:23:06] Nicole: I think it's going to be a total game changer. And probably many of you listening are like, oh, that's what we do. We have these awesome engineers. We promote them to managers, but they're missing the conversation, the dialogue, the discussion, the skills around how do you do people, right? Which Carrol and I can tell you is an entire thing, doing people.
[00:23:28] Carrol Ostendorf: It's a different beast.
[00:23:29] Nicole: That's right, that's right. I had a podcast earlier today with a gentleman and he was like, I hate the fact that we call these, "soft skills," because they're really the most challenging things, to talk to people. So I couldn't agree with him more. All right, fantastic. Don't miss that Carrol just laid down a nice little university model for you. Go down right now to the comments and say, thank you, Carrol. And leave her a little love down there.
[00:23:52] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email her at nicole@vibrantcole.com and be sure to check out Nicole's TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com.
[00:24:19] Nicole: Okay. So I'm curious about your recruiting process because again, she's looking for unicorns, these engineers that do forensic engineering, like, have you even heard of that before? So what are you guys doing to find talent? What's up your sleeve on that one? Teach us some things.
[00:24:38] Carrol Ostendorf: Well, I will say retention is one of our most important
[00:24:46] Nicole: Love that.
[00:24:46] Carrol Ostendorf: pieces for success at Delta |v| when it comes to, you know, people, but especially our engineers. Because we are so specialized, it can be really difficult, when you talk about a unicorn, it can be really difficult to find someone seasoned and advanced in their engineering career who have the experience that we're looking for with this work. So making sure we keep people, from when they are associate level coming in out of college and building all those skills and helping them develop until they become senior engineers, you know, professional engineers, licensed, that kind of thing. That's number one when you're talking about success around people and filling your roles. So we need to make sure that this is a place that people want to work and want to stay. So that's a big piece, when you think about recruiting, that's a big part. The other thing, you know, I'm sure we recruit from a lot of the same channels that everybody else does. But what we've changed this past year and we have seen a significant improvement in our candidates and our candidate pool and that kind of thing. So what we've really changed this year is around that idea that, proximity is power. I really believe that. And I believe that for all parts of HR. But when it comes to recruiting, you have to be building a relationship with a candidate from the minute you get their application. And so, transparency when we are talking to them, making sure they understand our timeline and then in between interviews, 'cause you know, the interview cycle can be pretty long,
[00:26:40] Nicole: That's right, 'cause we gotta get this VP in on it and he's going there and then he is on vacation and I mean, yeah, the whole thing.
[00:26:47] Carrol Ostendorf: So making sure that we are talking with them in between. Having conversations, a lot of times there'll be seniors in college, like asking them how their classes are going and we know they're getting ready for exams, that kind of thing.
[00:27:04] Nicole: Oh yeah.
[00:27:06] Carrol Ostendorf: Those things that let them know we see them as people, and that we care about how they're doing. And then that relationship, a lot of times, will bring about really good, meaningful questions from the candidate, the things that they really want to know. And then you can really start to have a better fit. And that's of course what everybody is looking for. And when I say fit, we want it to be a fit for that person. But then we're also, of course, always looking for that cultural add. We're looking for that person who's going to add to who we are and the way we work and is going to bring that new thing to the table. And you can figure that out when you're taking the time with them as they go through the process. So those are some things that we've tweaked over this past year. Morgan came on board and she's doing all of our interviews and that type of thing. And it probably helped that she's a new college grad. So I think she really had a heart for making that process positive for people, because she was recently in it and it's been fresh and just, it's been really good. But we've had some fantastic candidates and I've been really pleased.
[00:28:21] Nicole: Yeah. And I will tell you in my recruiting work, 'cause I do boutique recruiting for people like you and other companies and people will say after the fact, we'll get 'em onboarded. They've been there a while, and then we'll circle back and we'll say, well, you know, why did you choose to join the company? And they're like, well, of course pay, benefits, all the things people say. And it was good fit for me. I'm going to be a culture add, like you said. But then they'll say, well, Nicole was so nice to me.
[00:28:49] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes.
[00:28:50] Nicole: And I was like, well, of course I was. You know what I mean? But I think, yeah, and I think that's
[00:28:56] Carrol Ostendorf: Why wouldn't I be? That doesn't
[00:28:57] Nicole: Right and I think sometimes there's still kind of this weird leftover smoke and mirrors thing that I don't know what that was about. When I was coming up, it was very smoke and mirrors. In fact, don't miss this, all my young friends listening, we used to place ads in newspapers and they were blind ads and you would literally put your resume in an envelope with a stamp and send it in and you would never hear a word. It was always this very aloof and staunch, and I don't know what other icky word you can say right there, but don't miss what Carrol said. She is like checking in with people and developing a relationship. And here's the thing, you might take that kid to the point where you're like, I don't think this is going to work, but at least you treated him with dignity and respect, and that's all any of us want. And then, he and he or she knows this isn't right for me. This isn't good. Yeah. And you almost decide together, you know?
[00:29:59] Carrol Ostendorf: Absolutely. And we don't want it to be a negative situation for anybody. And so, that's been great. Is just that focus on follow up and continued conversation. Like if it's two or three weeks before the next round of interviews, they're going to hear from Morgan every week. There's going to be something and they're going to know how to contact her and if they reach out, she's going to follow up. So making people the priority, that type of thing is just really valuable. And for me it's just the idea of I'm going to build proximity and relationships in all of HR. But even recruiting with people that I'm just meeting.
[00:30:43] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And so you keep using this word proximity, which means close, right? Is that, yeah. And so I just want to kind of tease that out for people. It's like, what does she mean by proximity? Which means stay close to your people. Stay close.
[00:30:56] Carrol Ostendorf: Relationally and physically. But if you're not in the same office, you can still build closeness with your employees. And I think, that often looks like a phone call instead of an email and asking about their day and their weekend and those kinds of things, in addition to whatever the work thing is that you have going on. But there are ways to build that, even if you're not in the same office. But if you're in the same office, please go to people's desk, talk to them, that kind of thing. And when you see the smiling face, it changes relationships and dynamics and it just makes it better for everybody.
[00:31:44] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. I just want to share a story. I just recently saw this. So there's a gal, her name's Emily, and she has this team and I work with her and her team a ton. She loves to throw a good party, you know what I mean? Like she's all about confetti and cakes and candles and all this kinda stuff. So she has this team and when they have a birthday, she loses her mind. And, talking about proximity, the last time I was over there one of the girls loves _Friends_, the TV show _Friends_. And so I walked in and like there's a life-sized Chandler when you go in their office and it says Happy Birthday, you know, and then there's just _Friends_ napkins everywhere, and I mean, just everything. _Friends_ you could buy on Amazon, she has purchased.
[00:32:28] Carrol Ostendorf: She had bought it.
[00:32:30] Nicole: Yeah, and it is just are these people ever going to quit on her? Maybe. But they absolutely adore her working for her. And she's unapologetically over the top about the whole thing. And I just think it's great. All right. So if you've been listening to Carrol, you're like, dang, she's good. I wish I could be that good of an HR person.
[00:32:49] Carrol Ostendorf: No.
[00:32:50] Nicole: Yeah. And I could do Jiu-jitsu. So I'm curious most of us HR gals, like we fall into it. Like, I don't know what your story is, but they're like, get Nicole to do it. She's good with people. That's how it happened to me. So tell me about your HR journey and how did you become the great successful HR person that you are today?
[00:33:10] Carrol Ostendorf: Well, let me tell you, I had an amazing first manager a nd mentor.
[00:33:15] Nicole: Isn't that the thing?
[00:33:16] Carrol Ostendorf: My first manager out of college was amazing. And she believed in mentorship and she just brought me to everything that we did. And I learned and I worked in public policy then, so everything I know about what makes a good policy and what doesn't, and how to get laws through the legislature in the state of Michigan.
[00:33:43] Nicole: Woo.
[00:33:44] Carrol Ostendorf: I learned, you know, from her, but I also learned my work habits from her because she was that first boss. And when I started she was like, I don't care if you make a mistake. She said, just own it. And I learned that from her.
[00:34:05] Nicole: Write that down.
[00:34:06] Carrol Ostendorf: And I saw her do it. So, and even if something wasn't all her fault, she would find her piece in it and she would be sure to own that so that people felt like she was in it with them, solving whatever it was. And number one, I felt, okay, if I make a mistake, it'll be okay. And it was. But that has stayed with me through my years. And I made a pretty bad mistake, not at my current job, but not all that long ago. And it impacted about 15 people on payroll. It didn't affect the people, but it affected our finances and the way our accounts looked, that kind of thing. And I was responsible for our general ledger and saying why there was or wasn't a variance every month and all of those things.
[00:35:04] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so don't miss this. The whole entire leadership C-Suite thing is looking at this stuff, am I right?
[00:35:11] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes. And we, every location would get on a call every month.
[00:35:19] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:35:20] Carrol Ostendorf: And it would be, it'd be Charlotte, let's, let's look at yours now. And everybody else all over the country is in this call too. And then they'd get what's going on with this variance? And so it lasted for three months, 'cause it was like this blip. But when I made the mistake, I found it and I figured it out, like what happened? How did I make this mistake?
[00:35:42] Nicole: Right.
[00:35:42] Carrol Ostendorf: I called all the people that it impacted so that they would know how it impacted them and what the resolution was going to be and how it was going to impact our books. And I let my boss know this is what happened. This is what I've done to fix it. This is how I made the mistake, and how I'll refrain from making that mistake again. That whole thing. And that boss, she had this problem that wasn't a problem. And 'cause I had already...
[00:36:10] Nicole: Don't miss that.
[00:36:12] Carrol Ostendorf: And she like thanked me and I was like, yeah, no problem, no problem. And then she kept telling people how great I was.
[00:36:20] Nicole: Right, right, right.
[00:36:21] Carrol Ostendorf: And I had just made this mistake that was not small. Now I still had the embarrassment of being on those corporate calls every month, you know,
[00:36:29] Nicole: Right till it finally went away. Yes.
[00:36:33] Carrol Ostendorf: Yeah. But she thanked me and, it was, you're great. And I'm like, thanks. So glad that I could
[00:36:38] Nicole: make this mistake for you.
[00:36:40] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes. So, having a great mentor and when I think of being great in HR, people who have been impacted by great people want to be a positive impact for other people. And then, for me, I have some pretty significant hobbies outside of work and I always have. I had my Jiu-jitsu and I have my volunteer work. And those things, they can't help but change you as you go through life. So, things that I probably wasn't very good at 10, 20 years ago, I've gotten better at, not because I'm like naturally good at those things.
[00:37:24] Nicole: No you built the muscle.
[00:37:25] Carrol Ostendorf: But you build. And I was able to do that a lot through my advocacy work with Safe Passage and listening to people and not prejudging what's going on, but taking in the whole scenario and then just showing up for people the way they need you to show up for them in those situations. And so I think a lot of times HR people who fall into it, you have this seasoning that happens to you where you realize how important people are and Oh, I could make a difference there. I mean, with Jiu-jitsu, my favorite thing about Jiu-jitsu, which you wouldn't think would be something you'd gain from it, is that Jiu-jitsu gyms are the most diverse place you will ever walk into.
[00:38:20] Nicole: How fantastic.
[00:38:21] Carrol Ostendorf: Gender, race, financial situation in life. People have all kinds of different political views and things, but we all just love Jiu-jitsu and we do that thing together and it's close contact. So it's fairly intimate and you build friendships and relationships with people who are completely different from you. And you learn that all those differences don't matter, because we're going to do Jiu-jitsu together. And that's our common goal.
[00:38:56] Nicole: Right. That's our pur our purpose, our mission. Yeah.
[00:38:59] Carrol Ostendorf: So I say anybody who wants to do Jiu-jitsu, you won't necessarily become an HR professional, but you will get better at people.
[00:39:10] Nicole: Yeah. Well, it's so interesting you're saying that because I did a custom coaching program for a doctor and she has a line of nutraceuticals and she wanted to have a team of coaches so that people who wanted to take her nutraceuticals, they would have somebody who would kind of help them along.
[00:39:32] And so, one of the guys that was in the coaching program was handpicked by the CEO of her company. His name was Ben, and he competed in Jiu-jitsu and it, and like you notice how passionate Carrol is. I might have to go to Jiu-jitsu class, Carrol. I might have to do that, but, uh, so.
[00:39:54] Carrol Ostendorf: It's so much fun.
[00:39:56] Nicole: Well, his name was Ben and we had class until five. And if we were like still talking at five, he'd be, he would just message, I gotta go to Jiu-jitsu. Peace out.
[00:40:05] Carrol Ostendorf: Yeah.
[00:40:06] Nicole: I will do this to 5, but I have to be at Jiu-jitsu at 5:30.
[00:40:10] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes.
[00:40:10] Nicole: And what an a deep, deep thinker and a great soul Ben was, too. Yeah. So I'm sure that the discipline of the Jiu-jitsu and all of that is probably part of the reason she picked him and everything. So cool. So cool. All right. My next thing is, what advice would you have for other HR teams that want to grow? You guys had this crazy thing called a champion who wanted this university done. And while Carrol was really blessed to have this person in the C-suite that wants to see this happen, I know that we could wake up some C-suites, to the value of what you guys are putting together. So what advice would you have for other HR managers, directors that want to grow their impact on people?
[00:40:55] Carrol Ostendorf: I talked to Morgan before,
[00:40:58] Nicole: We're going to have to have her come on the show. Let's do that. Let's do Delta |v|, phase two.
[00:41:04] Carrol Ostendorf: Yes. I love that. And she said something that I thought was great, so I'm going to tell you her thought- and mine. But her thought was establish presence.
[00:41:17] Nicole: Oh.
[00:41:17] Carrol Ostendorf: And she talked a lot about how important it was, when she was getting Delta |v| University off the ground, and when she's recruiting, to talk to these hiring managers and talk to these experts to really dig out what it is that we need to do and what's most important. And that's not done in one conversation. And so the most important thing, from her perspective, is you have to be present and let people see you and then they'll see you as someone who knows a lot and can really speak into things. And so establishing presence is really important. And then for me, I think being my authentic self, especially in HR, is really important. I think sometimes in HR we think we need to be neutral and hide...
[00:42:25] Nicole: Like very buttoned up, serious. Mm-hmm.
[00:42:29] Carrol Ostendorf: Yeah. Like HR walks in the door and everyone's like, oh,
[00:42:33] Nicole: The principal's here!
[00:42:36] Carrol Ostendorf: I gotta quit joking around.
[00:42:37] Nicole: Right, right.
[00:42:38] Carrol Ostendorf: And so from my perspective, they need to see the real me and then they're much more likely to like me. And so then when I speak, people will be more likely to care. And so that's my biggest thing. I love to joke around. I love jokes and just making people laugh. Like, I don't do practical jokes, but I love making people laugh. I think that's really fun.
[00:43:04] Nicole: Me too.
[00:43:04] Carrol Ostendorf: Morgan and I have a game where we try to get our CEO to laugh. And she'll like ping me. She's like, made Heath laugh today. And I'll say, well, I said this joke and I got a good reaction. And so it's just this fun game that we do that has nothing to do with work, but it's who I am. So that's why it's important.
[00:43:27] Nicole: But it, it has everything to do with culture. Like we have fun, we laugh, you know? And like, where do you want to work? Where everybody's crying? No, you want to work where people are laughing and that is this, that is building a Vibrant culture, which is so stinking important. Yeah. That's fantastic.
[00:43:45] Well, that's on my list someday to make Heath laugh. I want to do that. Okay. I want to join the club. All right. Very good. All right. Well we are at the end of the hour. I can't believe this hour just flew by. And please don't miss how Carrol has laid down some major great wisdom for all of US HR folks and leaders out there. I know people are like, let's have one more nugget, one more thing that Carrol will share a big awesome takeaway for us.
[00:44:12] Carrol Ostendorf: On our website, everyone has to have a quote and we have everybody's picture and their quote, etc, on the website. So I'm just going to tell you the quote I picked and why. Yeah. So, Amelia Earhart, she says the most important thing is the decision to act, and the rest is merely tenacity.
[00:44:38] Nicole: Mm. So good.
[00:44:40] Carrol Ostendorf: With HR, that looks like you gotta take that initiative, to have the hard conversation, to just dig in if it's organizational change that you need to see, standing up for what's right, even if it's not popular. And you know, just if you're going to shift culture or strategy, you have to decide to act. And that's the hardest part. A lot of times in HR we just want to not do new things and different things. It's usually hard.
[00:45:18] Nicole: Right. 'cause we're changing minds and hearts and policy and procedure and...
[00:45:25] Carrol Ostendorf: It's going to be hard.
[00:45:26] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:27] Carrol Ostendorf: But to me that's the difference between an HR manager and a leader. So if you want to be the leader, then you have to decide to do it. And then of course, follow through with that tenacity. So that's what I would leave you with.
[00:45:44] Nicole: And the tenacity is her proximity and the presence. I just, I think that's where the money is on this whole podcast is get close to your people. And then be a presence. Oh, so stinking good. Alright, everybody, if you loved this episode of Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast, would you go down to wherever you are, you're on your phone, on your Spotify, your Apple iTunes, your YouTube, whatever you're doing, would you just go down there and give us a like.
[00:46:11] And then tell Carrol, Carrol's awesome! And put that in there. That'd be great. That's Carrol with two Rs, by the way. So Carrol, if somebody wanted to reach out and pick your brain some more or talk to you how do they find you? How do they get up with you?
[00:46:25] Carrol Ostendorf: They can get to me on LinkedIn. It's my name Carrol Ostendorf, and Carrol with two rs.
[00:46:32] Nicole: Two Rs!
[00:46:34] Carrol Ostendorf: One L, I was named after my grandmother, so.
[00:46:38] Nicole: Aw, that's so good. I, and you know what, Carrol, all of the classic grandma names that we have are coming back. Um. Yeah. Yeah. Just the other day, one of my friends from the old neighborhood, her daughter had a baby and she named her Hazel, and they're going to call her hazy. And I'm just like, I love it. Yeah. Yeah. They're all coming back. So I love Carrol. And of course, if you're from my generation, the first Carrol I think of is Carol Burnett. There's nothing better than that. So there you go. All right, so it has been another awesome episode of the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast, and I thank you so much, Carrol, for being part of it.
[00:47:14] Carrol Ostendorf: Thanks for having me. This was really fun.
[00:47:18] Nicole: I agree.
[00:47:18] Announcer: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast. If you found value in today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more like-minded listeners. Remember, the journey to building a vibrant culture never stops! Stay inspired, keep nurturing your vibrant culture, and we can't wait to reconnect with you on the next exciting episode of Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast.