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Podcast for the Digital Literacies and 21st Century Skills course at Adelphi University's Educational Technology program.
Catherine: Hi, I'm Catherine, and I'm here with my friend Nicole, and we're going to be talking about social media and learning. Okay.
Nicole: Hi guys. I'm so excited for today. I love this topic. Um, I feel like we both are at such a good age for this, especially. I feel like we both have a lot of connections to this. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] So let's get into it.
Catherine: So, how much do you think social media actually affects how we learn?
Nicole: So, in recent years, I think it's definitely been exacerbated, how much social media has come into the classroom. And I think that for a while we saw teachers leaning on it to feel like some of those gaps in learning, and then all of a sudden it turned into the primary source of learning and teachers are now filling the gaps from the social media.
So it's almost taking a turn in my opinion. But what do you think about that?
Catherine: I feel like we're, social media is so big that teachers are trying to relate to the students with using social media, but I think they're having a little bit hard of time doing that relating because they're not as familiar with it.
And I do think that it is a good thing to try to get students familiar with something and use it as a way to learn, but I think we're missing something in there.
Nicole: I agree. I agree. 'Cause I think a lot of teachers see it as a really beneficial thing. I know we both were looking at the article, the Rethinking Socio Cultural Notions of Learning in the Digital Era and Land Han and the other authors kind of go on to argue that social media doesn't just deliver information such as teachers do, but it kind of reshapes how that learning in the classroom is visible and shareable, especially for students who may not be able to connect to traditional learning in the classroom. I know at one part they mentioned that social media can create new possibilities for interaction, especially in collective forms of learning and solving problems with more transparency, which I thought was really interesting and I feel like that is touched upon in traditional learning, but it's taking a new form that I feel like we haven't seen before.
Catherine: Yeah, totally. I feel like learning is no longer limited to just the classroom and the textbook, but it happens through networks and people and posts and stuff on platforms, and it could make a student think deeper, but it could also question if we're in control of our actual learning, you know?
Nicole: Yeah. I think that's actually a really great point because a lot of teachers nowadays are being, I don't wanna say overrun, but the students are coming from a world where they grew up with this type of social media and they have such a better handle on it that some of the older teachers or teachers that are just more traditional. [Catherine: Yeah.] Really understand. And I feel like the question kind of poses that—
Is social media just shaping our learning or are we consciously realizing it while it's happening? So a lot of teachers, I feel like are using it, but it's going over their heads in a way.
Catherine: Yeah.
Nicole: And then it kind of poses that discussion of, you know, safety and responsibility that a lot of schools are having trouble with.
Catherine: Exactly. I agree to that. So what do you think some positives and negatives to teaching with social media are?
Nicole: So I think that there's a lot of arguments for both sides, and it really comes down to the teacher themselves and the restrictions that they kind of push onto their students. It also, I feel like, depends on student background.
I mean, a lot of these kids are coming in with technology given to them at a very young age, and a lot of them don't have the skills almost to be responsible or have healthy habits. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] I know we were looking at the YouTube podcast Is Social Media Destroying Kids' Mental Health by Taylor Lawrence, and she really goes into how so many parents or people in the older generations are confused by the effects of social media saying that they don't understand how children are becoming so anxious and depressed and they're kind of giving the simplified answer that it's the phone. You know, a lot of people say that's immediately the problem, but I think there's a deeper conversation that needs to be had, especially when it's coming into the classroom and basically leading their children's lives.
I think that, you know, also it raises concerns for internet safety and it kind of goes into, you know, when do the students now get a break from the internet learning, and is this something that's gonna be healthy for them in the long term? You know, building foundational goals as a student and also as a worker.
I know at one point in the YouTube podcast they gave the example of comparing social media to sugar. So like a lot of students will use it as a crutch and it's a learned addiction and I feel like that's a huge negative that people push. And I feel like she made a good comment in it and said that food in general is needed like sugar, but there are proper times for it and it needs to be learned.
Catherine: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Students, when they're not in school, they're on social media all the time. I know I am and then I was when I was in high school, so it's kind of naive to think that it won't be done in the classroom when it's so heavily used at home. There's no way that we can totally eradicate it from learning, but we have to, like comparing it to sugar, we have to be able to use it in moderation and kind of help guide it, gear it towards an educational standpoint rather than a harmful—
Nicole: I agree.
Catherine: —crutch to use.
Nicole: Yeah. And so I think also going into some main points, social media provides a lot of visibility for students. You know, YouTube tutorials especially, I mean, I use those for absolutely everything in my life. [Catherine: I got so many recipes.] Yes. [Catherine: For holidays.] Yes. It's amazing. And especially if it's something so simple that I just haven't learned, and I kind of feel embarrassed asking someone, I immediately straight to YouTube. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] Because there's, I feel like there's a sense of privacy there and I can really just learn on my own.
So I think that tutorials, comments and discussions being public really allows learners to observe others and learn from those experiences. And it's a great tool. And I mean, learning doesn't have to be private all the time. It becomes something that you can watch and participate in, which I think is what a lot of teachers are gravitating towards, and that's why they're implementing social media.
Catherine: I think social media can be used, yes, in an educational way, like academically, but you get so many life skills out of it too that I feel like we do miss in traditional schooling. And like you said, like sometimes I'm embarrassed to ask like, what does this mean on my car? And I can go and I can look it up on TikTok and then there's some like dad explaining it and I'm like, yes, that's exactly what I need. [Nicole: Yeah.] Gets that embarrassment out of like in a classroom. [Nicole: Mm-hmm.] You can ask a question.
Nicole: I also really love that, especially TikTok itself. The videos are great, but the comments I think are my absolute favorite part. 'Cause then you kind of go into the discussion of, people aren't afraid to be like, wow, I never knew this. Or like, this is so great. Or, you know, people are kind of discussing who wouldn't know this, you know? And it's kind of fun to read through and even participate in from afar. I feel like that's half the battle and it, you know, it does lead to almost say confidence for students. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] Knowing that other people are in the same situation.
Catherine: It's relatable. [Nicole: Yeah.] You hope to just feel better about yourself. I feel like you can find your own little niche. [Nicole: I agree.] Everyone else in your classroom, maybe they know something, but you're kinda learning it still. You can find a little group of people that are with you. [Nicole: Mm-hmm.] It makes you feel a little better.
Nicole: Yeah, definitely. I know in the article from Rethinking Socio Cultural Notions, they kind of went into research and how they mentioned that students were showing now to believe that they can learn more online than offline. Do you think this could potentially pose a problem later on for schools?
Catherine: I don't really think so. I feel like maybe it could definitely be used as like a crutch or an additional help online, because you can go a little more deeper into it if you want. You have to be able to like, I feel like have a human connection and be able to ask some questions in real time. I feel like if you're learning something and you post a question on a forum, you are not gonna get immediate feedback.
It could be, depending on what it is used for, it could be great to use it online, but I feel like you need a human connection that you're not gonna get online. And it don't, I think in like in a math way, it's a little bit harder to learn online than it is with people, but it definitely, I feel like could be used for support, but I don't think it could take over a whole thing.
Nicole: I agree. I agree for sure. Especially that, you know, I think putting the learning process under that huge microscope of, you know, nothing goes away online and anyone can see it all the time. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] Rather than the privacy of, you know, a teacher in person where you can have that actual connection like you were saying.
And you know, it kind of goes back to the podcast, is this gonna bring up major mental health issues in learners and students, those who are already stressed and anxious about the learning process and are so impressionable, you know, is it keeping any backlash from their learning or are they gonna be too nervous to participate online?
Catherine: Yeah. See that. I get that.
Nicole: Yeah.
Catherine: Oh, the article also talked a little bit about some flexibility and because digital networks, they're available to all learners everywhere, and then they can learn different things at different times. This means that learning doesn't really have to be tied to a classroom schedule and it can fit into a learner's life. [Nicole: Mm-hmm.] And...
Nicole: Yeah, that's a huge positive. I mean, especially for students say like you and I, thankfully you're working, I know right now, and you're a student. So with having a full-time job, I mean, the accessibility that you have to learn while doing this, I mean, it's amazing, especially that it's coming about and we're constantly learning, even if it's not formal, you know what I mean?
It really allows students to have the open space for their ideas and desire that I feel like they just didn't have back in the day.
Catherine: They could. There's a lot more that they could. I think that social media in a way, they can learn if something in school isn't there. Or their group isn't there, like a club. They can make their own club and they can learn stuff online, meeting people. And they can do that anywhere. They can meet people from all over the country or all over the world and they can learn things too. And I think that that's great with the flexibility aspect that you can be in Montana or you can be in Florida, or you can be in England and you can all be talking together and learning something at the same time, it doesn't have to be academic, which is what I like the most about it.
Nicole: Yeah, definitely. I mean, the scalability and how much you can expand to reach out to is insane nowadays. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] Especially with so many platforms being international, I mean, social media also being able to be accessed later on. So time zones are no longer an issue. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] It's really crazy that it's turning information into a lasting resource that people can revisit and reflect on.
Catherine: Yeah, they could always go back to videos or posts and conversations whenever they want. Like the article explained that digital content is recorded and often by default is publicly displayed, and I think that this is, you know, great. And it is possible for in-person classes as well. Like teachers can make their own videos, their own lecture notes and have their own resources, and they can make it available anytime.
So you can go back and look at it whenever you want. It could be like 2:00 AM the night before a test, and you can look at all that stuff, like having your teacher with you a little bit.
Nicole: Yeah, that's true. And it makes me think of back in high school when, you know, I was studying for an exam and, you know, teacher lectures were great, but I also leaned to like YouTube and things like that, like crash courses.
Catherine: Mm-hmm. Love it.
Nicole: Love those. Those, I think a lot of people will agree that those saved them a lot of the time. Yeah. And that if those weren't around it would've been hard studying, honestly. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] Like it brought a new dimension to learning and also a new perspective that I feel like a lot of people don't get without social media, especially with certain topics.
I know earth science, it brings such a new level of cultural and socioeconomical stances, especially to earth science, that we wouldn't have gotten before.
Catherine: I know with like math, like Stack Exchange, sometimes if you're looking up a proof, people from all over the place, and it can be from nine years ago, are explaining how they would do a proof. And it's like, I loved that when I was doing analysis in math because I was able to see different perspectives and how people do it and whatever way worked easier for me is the way that I learned it and how I approached it.
Nicole: Mm-hmm. I, yeah, I really agree with those, but then also it kind of makes me question how much can we initially trust, like we just trusted, you know, those types of things blindly. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] And how do we kind of, as teachers, prevent misinformation coming into the classroom as facts?
Catherine: I think that goes into, we need to, as a whole, just have a better media literacy. [Nicole: Mm-hmm.] As well as our students.
You have to teach them that too. Like we know we can trust Crash Course because if you just look at their YouTube, these are people that are experts in their field. That's why I'm able to trust them. And the same thing with Stack Exchange. Those are also experts in their field. Those are professors and people that are just giving advice on there, and sometimes they're not always right because I know I've looked at it and people are commenting on a comment and they're like, that's not right. So I feel like if we're able to have a discussion and we're able to fact check it— [Nicole: Mm-hmm.] Like I said, we're trying to find the credibility to it. I feel like then we know that that's okay, but we need to be able to have teachers guide students with their learning on their own, that they need to be able to find a credible and reliable source before they go any further in that learning.
Nicole: Yeah, I think everything definitely starts there. Everything starts as, okay, well how do you know this is true? Or what are you looking at? And I think that's kind of the foundational stone that teachers need to start from, especially if we're gonna start using this as a main resource. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.]
I know that we were both looking at a book, The Education and Social Media: Toward a Digital Future, that was published by MIT Press back in 2016. And it really explained how the internet has shifted from what they call a Web 1.0 model, where small groups of experts kind of created information and just shared it like we saw before, and then now it's becoming that Web 2.0 model, which large numbers of people are creating, sharing, and collaborating.
And you know, we did discuss in this class, you know, Wikipedia and things like that, allowing anyone to contribute. But there is sort of a, as we learned, you know, filterization and fact checking within it, and really just a shift in how we understand knowledge and kind of share things online. And I think that it's shaped by collective input, which is what we're seeing by these discussions.
Catherine: I mean, like that shift to a Web 2.0, it connects directly to the article's idea that social media can create new affordances for learning, like visibility and scalability because knowledge is shared publicly and collaboratively. So learners can see multiple different perspectives and they're able to participate in multiple different discussions rather than just memorizing one correct answer for one correct solution.
Nicole: Mm-hmm.
Catherine: It opens up their eyes a little bit more than they would in like a traditional classroom, you know?
Nicole: Yeah. And I also really like that, you know, teachers can be anyone. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] I think that there's a certain respect for, obviously experts and teachers in their field, but knowing that anyone can be a teacher to learn from in their own experience alone, I think that's great.
It also really brings a sense of community online that, you know, sometimes students can't find it in a classroom. I know a lot of the time, there were moments specifically in like my high school when I was there that I would have to look to online because I just couldn't quite grasp what everyone was grasping.
Especially, you know, math is your field, but unfortunately math was not my field. So I would always have to look for different, you know, models or just a different way of completing a problem.
Catherine: Yeah, I know like, just like with math, like I'll go to different teachers and I'm like, how do you explain this? Because I know for one, like the logs unit, for the life of me, I could never, and I'm math, I could not get it. I could not understand flipping between exponential and logarithmic and how to write something and I had to teach it. And I was like, I don't even know, how am I supposed to do it? And I talked to like three different teachers. I talked to three different Algebra 2 teachers and I'm like, how do you do it? And I picked one that like, oh my God, that clicked for me. Then that's how I taught it to my students.
So just being able to see, and like I didn't really do social media for it and I was going to if I needed to, but I was able to go to different people and how they did it, and they're experts in their field and go and do it in my own way.
And social media too. I'd be like, well, how do we do this? I did that for so many other different units, like how is the best way to teach this? How is the best way to do that? And I'm able to go into forums and see people and how they taught it and what worked for them and what didn't work for them.
And I'm like, okay, let me try it. And it's such a great way just, I'm a teacher learning from other teachers. [Nicole: Mm-hmm.] I'm still a student. We're all students in this world and we all have to learn from people that are above us. And I feel like it's so great that we have this technology now. I couldn't imagine doing this like 20 years ago and being able to help everyone, you know?
Nicole: Yeah. That's such a great point. I love that you mentioned that, you know, everyone's a student in any capacity, even if they're an expert in their field. So I feel like going back to, you know, how much do we think social media affects the way we learn?
I think it affects every step of the way we learn, especially in new worlds for students and learners, and the way collaboration is changing and there's a certain level of digital literacy, obviously that needs to come with it. And I think that, you know, younger people using digital media and social media in particular are really changing how they learn and grow up. [Catherine: Mm-hmm.] And I think these practices, you know, are changing how we relate to one another. And it's definitely changing the way teachers are relating to students.
Catherine: Yeah. Like we had social media, I felt like when it was on the rise, like in middle school, but now the students, they've been using social media since they were in like elementary school or even younger.
Nicole: Yeah.
Catherine: So we have to be able to like meet them at their level. Like we have to do our own research. [Nicole: Mm-hmm.] We can't just like pretend that it's not there and that it's not happening. We have to be able to help them learn with it and be able to help them see, again, like not spread misinformation with that. [Nicole: Mm-hmm.]
Nicole: And a healthy balance just—
Catherine: Yeah—
Nicole: —a personal level, you know what I mean?
Catherine: I'll, I can scroll on TikTok for hours.
Nicole: Oh, doom scrolling is, I'm still learning to this day.
Catherine: I know I have a thing on my phone. It shuts off at 9:00 PM, like it shuts off all my apps because I'll know, I'll just keep, I'll stay up all night when, like, I have to wake up at like six the next day.
I have it shut off at nine, so I keep that balance, like, it won't let me, it won't let me go on. But just like for me it's like, okay—
Nicole: Yeah—
Catherine: —I'm too, I can say one more minute, but then it like, won't let me go on.
Nicole: All right. Well, thank you guys for joining us for this little conversation and we look forward to any and all of, you know, your discussion that we're able to have now, as you know, using digital media for this.
Catherine: I know, we, this whole class, we're all learning online with social media.
Nicole: Yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys.
Catherine: Hope you enjoyed.