The Studio Demands It!

S7 EP2 | Who is John Wick once all his vengeance has been satisfied? The Studio Demands a pitch that answers that very question. 

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Creators and Guests

Host
Jim Burzelic
Host
T.C. De Witt

What is The Studio Demands It!?

Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands...MORE FILMS! It's an exercise in creative thinking where they will challenge themselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. | Sixfive Media

T.C.:

Hello. Welcome to the Studio Demands It! Screenwriting series where we will conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film or show based on the demands from one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord.

Jim:

Hollywood! Yeah.

T.C.:

As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time. Movies. And we like to believe that we can meet any demand thrown at us. We will be your screenwriters for this episode. I am T.

T.C.:

C. De Witt. And joining me as always is Jim Fisty Cuffs Burzelic. It's what they call me. Fistycuffs.

T.C.:

Have we ever asked each other like, have you ever been in a fight? Have we talked about whether or not you've ever been in a fight before?

Jim:

Not on mic. I don't know if I've ever talked to you about the fights that I've been in. Plural. The fights I was in were all in, like, middle school.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. I I punched

Jim:

They were they were they were stupid, ineffectual, amounting to nothing scuffles. Oh, no. I did get into one outside of school. I am pretty sure I lost everyone I was ever in.

T.C.:

You lost every fight you're in? Honestly, that's a record worth having. I punched Wesley Miner in the gob for kicking my kickball in at recess once in, like, third grade. And as soon as I did it, I cried, and he cried, and we hugged each other crying.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Because I was just playing by myself with my little rub red rubber ball. Remember that Yeah. The smell and the sound of a red rubber ball. And I think I was doing that because I had felt, like, not bullied, but just sort of, like, not included by the other kids. So I was just I was just playing by myself, and the ball kinda got away from me.

T.C.:

And as soon as it got near him, he just booted it, and it flew over the fence and into the away from school grounds, so I lost it. Was like, why did you do that? And then he's like, you you hit me. Why did you hit me? I'm like, I'm sorry.

T.C.:

You're just so sad. And then we just cried. That's my fight. I have a brother we've never fought. Seriously, I've never I've never fought my brother.

T.C.:

I could take him. Yeah. I don't know, actually. He might be deceivingly strong, and I don't know it.

Jim:

Oh, I had forgotten. So in well, I think it was in high school, me and some friends started a fight club.

T.C.:

Oh, no.

Jim:

Oh, no. It it wasn't big. It was, like, four of us. Okay. But, like, we would go in the backyard, and we would essentially spar.

Jim:

We called it sparring. Okay. It was it was it was us doing not real wrestling. Like, I'm not saying we were doing WWE stuff. Right.

Jim:

Like like, literally just trying to do, like like, limb locks and and gut punches and stuff. Yeah. Like, the rule was not the face.

T.C.:

Not the face. Not the face. We'll get in trouble if you hit me in the face.

Jim:

Yeah. I Not not even real. Like like, we thought it was real fighting.

T.C.:

Did was this trampoline or just in the grass?

Jim:

Just in the grass.

T.C.:

Because my friends and I would do trampoline, like, tomfoolery.

Jim:

Yeah.

T.C.:

I I might have told this story before, but the Yeti and I choreographed the w w sorry. WCW is what I was into at the time because of NC WCW versus NWO on the Nintendo 64. Anyway, we choreographed like a fight.

Jim:

Uh-huh.

T.C.:

And in in it was a suplex. Like, he picked me up, and then I took the fall to the ground. And we worked it out.

Jim:

We

T.C.:

had the choreography for it. And then we went to a friend's, like, backyard hangout one night and, like, campfire kind of thing. And Yeti's like, hey. Let's do I'm like, alright. And when we got to that final move, he threw me to the ground.

T.C.:

Yeah. Not like, didn't let me take the fall. He threw me on the grass. The fact that I didn't break my neck is a miracle. Because I landed, like, full on, like Yeah.

T.C.:

Right on the worst spot. I'm like and I was just, like, dazed. I was like, what the hell? He's like, sorry. I got in the moment.

T.C.:

I'm like, yeah. You you coulda killed me. That was the end of that. We stopped

Jim:

our That that was the end of your career in dance?

T.C.:

That was the end of my

Jim:

it was

T.C.:

the end of my dance. Yeah. That that was the end of it all right there. I never ballet again. Anyway, Jim, our amazing listeners have given us demands from studios literally all over the world.

T.C.:

All over the world? That's right. And you listening right now, you can send us any demand you like, and we will have to meet it right here on the spot. And when we reach the end of the episode, if we 've done our jobs, we'll have pitched a full script and story meeting or even exceeding those demands. And when the end of the season comes, your demands could have helped us craft the script that will be greenlit by the fans for our finale.

T.C.:

Thanks to everyone who submitted. Today's demand comes from okay. Here we go. Ronnie with an I ronnie with a y studios. Nice.

T.C.:

Hello, Ronnie. Okay. Here we go. Ready? Ready, Jim?

T.C.:

I already know what this is. I I know I I picked it based on the single singular thing I needed to search, so I I have a sense of what this may or may not be. But here we go. Ready? John Wick is dead.

T.C.:

That's what Keanu Reeves has said. And yet, Lions Gate officially announced John Wick Chapter five. Really? Yep. Oh.

T.C.:

With Keanu returning somehow, impossibly. Yeah. I'm thinking he's back. Here's the problem. Chapter four ended perfectly.

T.C.:

The the high table storyline is over. John finally escaped the myth of Baba Yaga. The tombstone wasn't just a death. It was a symbolic burial. The assassins the assassin died so the man could finally exist.

T.C.:

So if you're going to make John Wick five, you cannot undo the ending. You can't undo any of it. And Chad Stahelski, the director? That's the guy who directed

Jim:

it. Mhmm.

T.C.:

Knows it and has already said, quote, we won't revisit the high table. We are not recycling mythology. No. Somehow the elder returned nonsense. This has to be a completely new story with completely new stakes.

T.C.:

Oh, didn't realize how long this was. Which means the challenge isn't is how is John alive? The challenge is who is John Wick when he no longer has anything left to fight for? No purpose. He's just a man who was once a legend, and that could be the most dangerous of John Wick we've ever seen.

T.C.:

The franchise has always worked because John is reactive. Someone takes something from him, and the machine starts. But now what happens when someone or something tries to pull him back into violence after he's already buried Baba Yaga once and for all? That's the demand. No bigger mythology, not another high table coup, not fan service cameos, a new world, new enemies, new locations, new emotional stakes.

T.C.:

Don't pitch me more John Wick. Pitch me one story powerful enough to make me and fans believe John Wick should return at all. And remember you two Fortis Fortuna and Voobet. Be seeing you. What is Fortus?

T.C.:

Fortune? Fortuna is fortune.

Jim:

It's it's you should look it up before we before we make fools of our

T.C.:

Fortune favors the bold. Ah. That's what it means. NBC News definitely a John Wick quote as well. Okay.

T.C.:

Ronnie wants a John Wick five, Jim. And you kinda can do cause you've we've had

Jim:

conversation I about want to read I had wanted to redo stuff. Yeah. I'd wanted to like, it's not even just the fourth one.

T.C.:

Yeah. Let's go back to one

Jim:

every No. No. One is fine. I actually love the table. I think the table is resolved poorly.

T.C.:

In four. He said it was perfect.

Jim:

I I know. And and and and I disagree. Yeah. I actually think John Wick dying means John Wick didn't win. John Wick never rested.

Jim:

John

T.C.:

He didn't get

Jim:

what he thing is, it's entirely possible based on where is that sound coming from? Is that outside?

T.C.:

Oh, that's outside. Oh, okay. It's a guy talking.

Jim:

The the what Ronnie here said, like, Baba Yaga's buried. I don't know where that happened. Well Was that was that when he when when he used his last favor with the Russians to to get out? Was that the death of Bobby? Because I don't know or just him dying is that, like, do all of these things just resolve with his death?

Jim:

I

T.C.:

think that's what it is. Because, like, the tombstone's there, John is dead. He satisfied his final debt. He he did the shootout, saved the bullet to kill the kill Bill Skarsgard. Sure.

T.C.:

Spoilers. Sorry. I suppose if you're watching it, or sorry, listening to an episode about John Wick Chapter five, you you Yeah. You should assume we're gonna talk about the four, five, six previous things. And there's a video game coming out and an animated thing coming out.

T.C.:

Oh, and a Kane spin off they're producing right now. The blind Dining Yen's character.

Jim:

Okay.

T.C.:

Anyway.

Jim:

But yeah. So I was I was unsatisfied with that ending. I'm glad you liked it, Ronnie. Yes. But I I thought the because to me, the whole point and I realized he himself if you take the movie and the character at their word, so the moment he says, you know what?

Jim:

I think I'm back. Mhmm. It technically undoes the entire story of wanting to be out. Right. So maybe I'm wrong.

Jim:

Fine. But that's the story I was interested in, was this man who wanted out, and it turned out the only way out was through. Right. Well, that

T.C.:

first one wasn't there was never any plan to write a sequel. It's just No.

Jim:

No. The first one happened. And it's in the second one that we're kinda given that arc of you can't get out.

T.C.:

Yeah. Now that you did this thing You're back.

Jim:

We say you're back. Right. Which is why in that movie, he says, you know what? I think I am back. Yeah.

Jim:

But that's also why he eventually goes to the table. Well, he goes to the table because he has this weird moment where he's all like, I must work for you now when the whole notion was to kill them.

T.C.:

Right.

Jim:

Right? Like, the only way I can be the the motivation was always to be out. Right. And so, like, there you know, there there's there's some real samurai stuff to the only way out is is through death.

T.C.:

Through. Yep.

Jim:

But I did not feel that the movie ever established that. I'm sorry. The world of John Wick told John that was the case. Right. The only way out is is death.

Jim:

Yeah. And essentially, that that means man versus the world. Mhmm. And the world won in that case. And that is a sad story, because we wanna see protagonists win.

T.C.:

Right. And he didn't. Yeah. I when seeing that fourth one, which has that that stair fall sequence is one of the best things in the whole franchise as far as I'm concerned. But the Honestly, I I didn't like I rolled my eyes when I first

Jim:

saw it. Yeah. But upon repeated viewing, upon a later viewing, I actually really really liked it.

T.C.:

It's so good. It's like everything that's that I think that series Wisecrack did a great video back in the day. The Wisecrack channel on YouTube did a great video on John Wickes, the inheritor of slapstick. It's that like, we as a culture have to escalate our genres because we get so familiar and comfortable with the tropes, they become rote, and they're not interested anymore. And the way action has escalated, and sci fi has escalated, and all these genres have escalated, is true for comedy as well.

T.C.:

And and John Wick is the inheritor of slapstick because there is something funny about watching him ripping through people and just gunning them down in the most ludicrous bullet ballet possible. And

Jim:

that's that was another problem is I wasn't on board for for that humor. I I I was right, like Humor

T.C.:

is a strong word.

Jim:

It is. But but the for example, that's what what turned me around on the Fast and Furious franchise. Yeah. You said, no. No.

Jim:

Here, watch it with me. Watch it like this. Yes. And when I was watching this insane franchise where people had car powers

T.C.:

Car powers. And and just like Telekinesis.

Jim:

Yeah. And and all that kind of stuff. We're we're we're basically went in with a with a a a a professional wrestling attitude Yes.

T.C.:

Yes.

Jim:

Yes. To Fast and Furious. Yeah. It became fun. I was like, oh, okay.

Jim:

This isn't eye rollingly stupid. I mean, it is, but that is sort of the point.

T.C.:

It's okay.

Jim:

And it's also not fair to call it eye rollingly stupid because it it seemingly knows what it is. You hear stories about Vin Diesel, and you're not so sure. Is this

T.C.:

what Francis Ford Coppola would do? We're kind of off topic here.

Jim:

But with John Witt it comes back to John Wick because I don't necessarily like, I understand the notion of him being the inheritor of slapstick. Mhmm. And and my point is maybe I watched the movies wrong because they do escalate in that manner. And instead, if I had watched that final movie where the cars just keep going around the the

T.C.:

Keep driving. To Trump. And that's where that came that's where the crazy Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. Keep driving. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The keep dancing was was from when he goes through through the club.

Jim:

Like, all of these they are watching. They are watching a man kill a bunch of other

T.C.:

Keep dancing. Gotta keep dancing. Yeah.

Jim:

I'm minding my own business over here.

T.C.:

I don't I don't love this franchise.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

I I like it. I'm impressed by it. The the technical achievements of it is is what it's built upon the stunt world that fifty seven Eleven or Yeah. Yeah. Like, that Yeah.

T.C.:

That stunt team has done some extraordinary things. Yeah. We we got to see Over Your Dead Body recently, and they are the stunt team on that. And they they did some stunts in there that weren't the Flash and the choreography of John Wick, but still as impressive. And that's to say, John Wick in its bullet, that action stuff is like

Jim:

Bullet ballet.

T.C.:

Bullet ballet.

Jim:

That's that's a term.

T.C.:

Yeah. It's it's cool as hell. Like, that's It is. Yeah. And so all that said, going to that fourth movie, when I love that stair sequence.

T.C.:

When it ended and I saw that tombstone, and Winston walks away from it, all I thought was, well, now we know where John Wick's guns and coins are, and the next time we see him, he's digging that thing up, probably in the rain Mhmm. And pulling out his guns and coins. Right? Like that seems like the logical place. He's already dug up his basement.

T.C.:

He's already gone through a wall. He's like gone like, his his cache is next place where the cache is gonna be is there. Right? That's not bad. That's that's my pitch for, like, not the opening though.

Jim:

I was like, I was so put off that I was like, fine. Fine. He's dead. Whatever. I I I actually kept waiting for for the ground to shake.

T.C.:

Yeah. And the hand to come out with a gun in

Jim:

Something like no. I I just kept thinking Superman. The the way the way in BVS. BVS. Yeah.

Jim:

DOJ. Like, he he he he returned from the dead before The credit even ended.

T.C.:

My assumption was they built it in such a way that if they were gonna do a fifth one, this is what's gonna happen. He's not Sure. Gonna come out of that grave. He's gonna return to it and dig it up.

Jim:

And so I'm putting an idea together. I don't know if the studio will like it.

T.C.:

Okay. Well, let's I before we get to that, I just if there's any further dissection to be had here, that original one this this is also allowing you the platform to to in our public here, to talk about going too far. And I'm in agreement on this. As soon as everyone became an assassin, that you're in Central Park and literally everyone there is like, sup John? We're all coming after you.

T.C.:

I was like, oh, they've gone too far.

Jim:

Maybe I should have taken it a little less seriously the moment that happened. But that first one Maybe I should have pivoted.

T.C.:

Yeah. I think the first one it's like this is a strange might not be a strange comparison. Alien versus aliens. Alien has a specific style and tone, and rules to it, and then aliens amped it up like an action movie should, and kinda contradicted some of the elements of Alien.

Jim:

Well, it's because it it was a it was a different genre.

T.C.:

Yeah. It went from horror to sci fi action.

Jim:

It's still horror, but yes.

T.C.:

It's yeah. Yes. I'm I'm not just

Jim:

I'm the stickler on that.

T.C.:

It's I think Alien and Aliens are two of the best movies ever made. Yeah. And even if Aliens contradicts Alien, that doesn't diminish it. With John Wick, it reached a point of narratively, I was like, I really don't care anymore. Yeah.

T.C.:

I don't care.

Jim:

So I I think that's why I didn't I was less affected by that stare scene because in in that same movie, we had the arc to Trump fight. Like, I I hated that fight. I a traffic fight should be cool. Yeah. But that one, it just it felt like the agent Smith fight scene fight.

Jim:

Yeah. Where it was just like, this should be cool, but it just it's so much that I just don't care.

T.C.:

Yeah. Just a quick tangent because you probably that's a great comparison of how little it mattered. Mhmm. Looking back at the Burley Brawl from Matrix Reloaded

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

And just imagining it done practically. Oh, sure. Oh my god. I know that's a weird tangent to go off on for a second, but it's just going back to the Arctotrium car chase sequence, it's because it looks so fake. It felt so fake.

T.C.:

And maybe they were driving cars around these guys, but it just felt artificial. Mhmm. And to go from the very grounded action sequences of the beginnings beginnings of John Wick to reaching that point where it's like,

Jim:

okay. And like Keep driving. There were things there were things that I totally get on paper conceptualizing. I probably would have been on board if the work like, the way they build the John Wick world, every time they do this sort of new thing that is there entirely for style, it's not about realism. The movie stops being about realism probably in the first one Mhmm.

Jim:

But definitely in the second one. Uh-huh. But by the time we get to the fourth one, right, the these these high up dudes, they have bulletproof suits. Not it not Kevlar in their suits. Not like, literally the fabric itself.

Jim:

So all they have to do is, like like, kids on a playground saying, no. I I put up my jacket

T.C.:

and shields me. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. That's literally what they're doing. That that that's sci fi. At that point, you're doing sci fi. Mhmm.

Jim:

And and that can

T.C.:

be Or magic.

Jim:

Or or magic. And that can be okay. And I'm gonna roll with with all this. Because the thing is I actually liked I really liked the world of where not where not where, like, everyone in the park was an assassin.

T.C.:

But the continental.

Jim:

Yeah. The continental, this entire subculture of Yes. Assassins.

T.C.:

I really dug the the sanctuary locations of the continental. Mhmm. Imagining there's one in around like, one in every major city around the world that you can go to as a sanctuary. The rules state you can't kill on on continental grounds, lest you be excommunicado.

Jim:

Mhmm. Having having the weird addicted to love women running the networking room was was was a cool style.

T.C.:

Yeah. There There's certainly some wonderful aesthetics to be had there. So instead of sitting here and just reviewing the series, I kinda got some ideas flowing. I assumed this is what it was gonna be. I picked I picked John Wick.

T.C.:

That's why I just wanted to do a John Wick episode, because we've made it seven seasons, and we've only ever had passing conversations about John Wick. Sure. And I just had an itch in me. I was like, oh, let's see if we can do a John Wick demand. And we had a couple.

T.C.:

There were a couple classic. I should John Wick, but it's Nick Nick Cage. Thank you. Thank you.

Jim:

John Nick.

T.C.:

Also, I wanna know who you people are, because it's not one person who sent us all those. Oh, no? There's multiple people who sent us this movie, but it's all Nick Cage. Yes.

Jim:

Alright. We'll do that one. So it's John Wick.

T.C.:

Yeah. I'm thinking I'm back. No. I'm thinking I'm back. There you go.

T.C.:

Anyway, it is funny every time I see it, and it's also funny to see the Muppet one as well that comes up a lot of, like, this movie, but it's Muppets. So there was a John Wick, but it's Nick Cage demand. It's it's it's hard for me not to just read the sentence because it's always just one sentence demand. And but we had

Jim:

a funnier if the villain is the human or John Wick is the human? John Yeah. Wick It's January is kicking the shit out of a bunch of puppets, or or is it a puppet John Wick? Oh, man. I think it's funnier to

T.C.:

watch Kenner Reeves just just destroying puppets. But there is also something funny to imagine of of, like, puppet John. No, I think I think John Wick's the human then everything else is the puppet. Then maybe the main villain is or like the muscle to the main villain is also a human.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

And then like Sam the eagle is the final villain or or

Jim:

It could be a no could be a so many different directions.

T.C.:

Anyhow, I do want

Jim:

to No. Actually, no. The muscle needs to be Sweetums.

T.C.:

Oh, yes. Oh my god. When John

Jim:

Wick shows up, Sweetums goes, I'm out of here.

T.C.:

What? Are you John Wick? I'm out of here. Woah. Woah.

T.C.:

This is a high step runaway. Yep. Oh, Sweetums. You're right. That's Anyhow, I wanted to those those two really quick.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

There you go.

T.C.:

Oh, I'm thinking I'm back. There you go.

Jim:

Nick Cage as John Wick in Muppet John Wick. Fortune favors the bold.

T.C.:

So it's been a while. Okay. John Wick. I assumed it was gonna be something like this. I thought maybe there was a there was a chance it would be a prequel John Wick.

T.C.:

But I've I haven't really given this much thought before of what what to do beyond John Wick four, because the conversations we've had in our John Wick discussions has always been, this is what I would've done

Jim:

Yep. It's a it's a whole

T.C.:

an alternative.

Jim:

It's a bunch of woulda.

T.C.:

So with that said, you said you had something brewing over

Jim:

there.

T.C.:

I do. But it controversial.

Jim:

Uh-oh. John Wick is not the main character. Go on. We follow probably three or four assassins

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Who don't believe John Wick is dead.

T.C.:

They're looking for him. Yeah. Searching for John Wick.

Jim:

One of the one of the first scenes is these mysterious people in the rain digging up digging up the grave. To see When they open

T.C.:

it Yeah.

Jim:

It's empty.

T.C.:

Not even gold coins? Not maybe a couple. One gold coin.

Jim:

But clearly, there were there were some.

T.C.:

Uh-huh. Okay. That's it? Or

Jim:

yeah. I because I didn't wanna go too far if this was too out there and, no. That doesn't satisfy the demand. Right. That's not the world building you wanna do.

T.C.:

No. That's not bad.

Jim:

Didn't go much further than that. Like, it touches on as as the movie goes, I I I have more of a a vibe Okay. Than, like, scenes or or plot points in life.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. John Wick is essentially he's he's the monster. He as as they're going

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

They're trying to find him, and he pop like, he pops. So we get to see Keanu, but only barely as he Baba Yaga's in, kills someone

T.C.:

I don't

Jim:

even wanna do this anymore. Back into the shadow.

T.C.:

I I do think you're on to something of trying to find John Wick. It could be a couple three three or so you said three?

Jim:

I said three or four.

T.C.:

Three or four. Three or four assassins who want to truly prove themselves. They wanna be the you become the best by killing the best kind of thing. And it's like a champion retiring from you brought up wrestling earlier Sure. Retiring undefeated.

T.C.:

And like, I'm retiring the belt, and now it can go for grabs for the next person, and I will never be fought. I will never lose this belt. I give it up willingly kind of thing. You certainly have way more wrestling information to draw from. So if I'm off mark, you can just say so.

T.C.:

You make

Jim:

me sound like an expert.

T.C.:

You are Uh-oh. In my eyes. But having a a handful of assassins who wanna prove themselves find John Wick and kill him. I knew he wasn't dead. If we find him, we kill him.

T.C.:

But I think

Jim:

we can give them different motivations. One just wants to prove he's not dead. It it it's a matter of prove he thinks he's smarter than everyone, so he needs to prove he's right. Another likes that idea because he never got his chance to to fight John Wick. Mhmm.

Jim:

And he would love to prove himself.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

I don't know why the other two are there.

T.C.:

They could be a I just wanna be friends. You guys are my friends all hell. Be a a pair out for revenge. You know, it's it did it's it did say, Chad himself has said it, this is not this is going to be a new story for John Wick, a new world. So linking it to anything we've seen already

Jim:

So that that's a weird thing. What does that mean, a new world? He's in a like, is it gonna be, like, nobody? Is it just gonna be nobody but with but with counter Reeves?

T.C.:

Right. Actually, that's worth just saying right now. He's he's it's history of violence or nobody. He's retired, and he's just trying to live a normal life, but he can't

Jim:

help world of killers is gonna come after him. Right. If if yes. Yes.

T.C.:

You're you're correct. If but the Or

Jim:

or is it not supposed to be an action movie?

T.C.:

Oh, that would be a waste of everything. Yeah. It's gonna be an action movie. So It

Jim:

has. You're

T.C.:

right. Having it be a nobody or a history of violence where he's, I'm out of the game. I'm out of the game. I don't even I'm dead. I'm not even John Wick.

T.C.:

My name's not even John. I'm Mhmm. I'm Jerry Blick. Because because there was there

Jim:

was another way to go, it's a bit more jokey, and it it goes I think it it it is even more of a curveball than the one I pitched of John Wick not being the main character.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And that's due Franken Wick or Witt Witt Wittgenstein's.

T.C.:

Literal oh my god. Like, literally resurrect Yeah. Like, he's in his dead.

Jim:

He's in the grave and and yeah. And he's brought back.

T.C.:

He's he is dead and you bring it that is really something. I mean, now you're

Jim:

truly magic.

T.C.:

You're delving into territory that this franchise has not gone to, which is Yeah. Literally raising the dead. I I'm gonna say no to that. Sure.

Jim:

You could you could address some of figured. No. No.

T.C.:

I I don't think that would do it it's it's it's Freddie it's it's it's Jason Voorhees in space. Like, that

Jim:

is Mhmm.

T.C.:

So, like, what are we doing here? It's escalating in a very strange direction, like Dom Toretto returning from the dead because he had a vision, which has happened. But, having but there's only there's tropes in this of him being working at a coffee shop shop somewhere and someone clocking him and going, I know who you are. I okay. Here's an aesthetic thing to help with this.

T.C.:

Cut the hair. Just Sure. It's it's Kanner Reeves with a short haircut and no beard. Like, he doesn't even look his part anymore.

Jim:

So what are we retaining from John Wick?

T.C.:

That he is the killer

Jim:

Taylor City. More than his hair.

T.C.:

But Yeah. But that he is you put a gun in his hand, there's nothing that can stand in his way. So really, it's just a matter of how do we find him, get him out of retirement, and throw him at something that he has to kill. That's it. They come up with we have to come up with a new reason to get the machine.

T.C.:

As Ronnie put it, something is taken from John Wick and the machine starts. So if this is a John Wick who's been retired and has has quietly gone away and and living his happily ever after, even if he does get his wife back, the thing that can be taken away from him is that peace. He's at peace finally. He's he's achieved what he wanted, and he's

Jim:

That's just you're you're right, but that's just one. We're just gonna Well, no.

T.C.:

One he wasn't at peace in one. He was grieving. And then the dog was killed, and he was like, you killed my wife. I mean, my dog.

Jim:

Dog was yes. He was grieving, and then the dog, a gift from his wife Mhmm. Was the peace.

T.C.:

Okay. Yes. I I understand the struggle you're saying is that we're but shattering his peaceful existence is enough to get him going again. Put a coin in this thing.

Jim:

So that that's that's our goal? We're just gonna force awakens this?

T.C.:

Is it? I I

Jim:

I don't know.

T.C.:

If if okay. Let's okay. Fine. Yeah. New new new scenario here.

T.C.:

Nothing is taken from him. He is peacefully, happily living the life. He lives by the ocean. He has his home. He goes into town.

T.C.:

He's living a very simple, quiet life in the middle of nowhere.

Jim:

And he sees a murder through his window across the street. But he doesn't wanna get involved, so he just keeps watching, trying to figure out what happened.

T.C.:

No. But we could come back window? Rear Wickdo? Yeah. No.

T.C.:

Wick window is pretty good. Rear Wickdo is also pretty funny. Sounds sounds gross, though. Someone shows up and says, please, I need you. Please, I need John Wick to say like, I I something has happened.

T.C.:

Why'd you say that name? Why'd you say that name? Please. Please let me hire you. I'll give you all of these gold coins.

T.C.:

I will, like Sorry. He's the a team. Yeah. He's the he's the j team.

Jim:

If you can find him, you can hire the j team.

T.C.:

No. What do you think of that? That someone shows up and says, please, I I wanna hire you.

Jim:

I'm interested to know where you're gonna go with this. What is this new world he's getting involved in? Because I I really wanna go back to the world of assassins. I'm because because I think what am I trying to say? I think that world is super cool.

Jim:

Yeah. And letting that world live beyond John Wick is a great idea.

T.C.:

Right.

Jim:

But he is so intrinsic that you need to figure out a way to move. It's it's hard to move on it. Right? Like, the Harry Potter world is called the wizarding world of Harry Potter.

T.C.:

Right.

Jim:

Right. So we could have whole adventures that don't have this guy in it, but it's named after him. Yeah. At least Star Wars is called Star Wars and not Legend of Skywalker. Right.

T.C.:

I I I'm trying to get him okay. Someone shows up, a young person who's like, if there's I was always told justice could be served by one man and one man only. It's it's you. It's John Wick. Not I don't Bobby Augusta said, I don't know who that is.

T.C.:

I'm looking for John Wick. Someone who knows John Wick is the is the gun, does not know the legend of Bob Yaga, says, help me. Whatever convincing needs to be done, John Wick is pulled into that that event, that's in this assignment, this mission, whatever whatever the case. And and the revelation of, like, okay. I'm in this, but I'm not I'm not returning to my world.

T.C.:

It's already linked to that, and he does get back into the world of assassins. Like, if it's this

Jim:

I thought we're not supposed to return to the world of assassins.

T.C.:

Right. But you just said yourself, you love that world, and you wanna go back to it.

Jim:

Yeah. That's why I with with my pitch. But doing this so I'm starting to I'm I'm I'm I'm starting to to to see it.

T.C.:

Yeah. It's feeling real roadhouse. Roadhouse. Go on. Is this a

Jim:

good thing? Trying to find a different world. Because the that that world of assassins isn't just the world of assassins. That actually was the world of crime. Mhmm.

Jim:

Right? All crime. So how do we get away from crime, from organized crime?

T.C.:

Well, we won't visit so looking at the demand, and what Chad Stolesky has said, not going back to the high table, not recycling the mythology, and the elder is not returning. This is a comp the demands of a completely new story with new stakes. I feel like we can still visit when we can see Winston again, or we can go to one of the caches. The elder?

Jim:

Remind me of that.

T.C.:

That's who Bill Skarsgard ended up killing and taking over the right?

Jim:

Oh. I

T.C.:

And Clancy Brown was like, oh, this this will determine this or that or the other.

Jim:

He was the adjudicator. Clancy Brown was the adjudicator. Yeah.

T.C.:

But whatever the case is, the is that, yes, this assassin world exists and there's no fleeing from it. And if Jon is out and pulled near it again Mhmm. Maybe that can satisfy your saying, like, this mythology is huge. We should still play in

Jim:

it. Sure.

T.C.:

We just won't recycle anything.

Jim:

I'm I'm try I am I'm willing to try to find other worlds. That's why I was saying it it starts to feel roadhouse.

T.C.:

Roadhouse.

Jim:

Because right? So he's now off on his own in in this new life. He is someone else. And so what I would do is maybe the the person who comes to him doesn't call him John Wick.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But they from from from him being in town, his new life, his new little calm sedentary life that is the wrong word. But and then one day someone shows up at his door. Hey. I need your help. I I don't know what you want.

Jim:

I can't help you. I'm a green grocer. Mhmm. Riddle riddle evades. No.

Jim:

Sorry. That's a that's a It's a

T.C.:

Liam Neeson life's too short reference right there.

Jim:

That is. I'm I'm just I'm the I'm the grocery I I work in town. I I do this. I don't know why you'd think I could

T.C.:

help you. I raise dogs.

Jim:

Yeah. I don't know why I I don't know why you think I could help you with the the the the freaking truck brigade. Like, there I was thinking rednecks. Right? I think that's a part of why I was thinking Roadhouse so much.

Jim:

But a bunch of dudes in trucks terrorizing a town with their their big rifles and

T.C.:

And John Wick goes ramble on their asses? Yeah. I don't have we seen John Wick beat up rednecks? I don't think so. We might be on something here.

T.C.:

Appalachian John Wick here.

Jim:

It's very roadhouse.

T.C.:

Yeah. Like, you you you messed with the wrong dude. He'll crush their throats like walnuts. Someone coming to him and asking for help that

Jim:

Like like, in in through the the the first act, little things sort of give away that he is competent at. Like like, he chases off a shoplifter.

T.C.:

Or I

Jim:

don't I don't know. Or or or or even a mugger. He stops a mugging. Mhmm. And enough word gets around, because it's a small town, that someone gets in trouble.

Jim:

Like, they're being chased. Like, they're real problem. And so they're, like, I don't know who to go to because these guys right? Is this is this this just one man Yojimbo?

T.C.:

Kinda. Yeah. Yeah. And that touches on some samurai

Jim:

Or seven samurai? One one man seven samurai. It is yeah. That would be Yojimbo. But, yeah, the the idea right.

Jim:

So the bandits come to town, terrorize the town. Someone's like, please help. I cannot help you. I know you can. You you you you took that gun away from that guy like it was Mhmm.

Jim:

Like it like it was yours.

T.C.:

Yeah. That was a good line. That's a good line. Okay. Yes.

T.C.:

I think we there might be some chance here to to blend some ideas here. The idea of digging up that grave to prove that he's not like, okay. Three three assassins. We'll limit it. No.

T.C.:

That's not five. Five assassins who collectively meet at the gravesite and dig it up in the rain and open up that casket, and it's empty.

Jim:

Oh, you're gonna make my protagonist the antagonist?

T.C.:

And then being like, he's not dead. Alright. Who finds him first? Good luck. Then

Jim:

That's kind of that that's a a fun pitch.

T.C.:

Then cut to John living his simple life Mhmm. And a very rednecky minor threat happens in like, to to give us this inciting incident

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Of John Wick being John Wick. You took that gun away from him like it was yours. That that Mhmm. Kick it off, give us, a real action scene. Maybe someone holds up the like, he's shopping at the market, and someone comes in Sure.

T.C.:

And holds up the place, and he's like and he takes him out with, a banana, and, like like, he just won't touch a gun, and he just, like, does this, that, and the other. And then it ends with him disarming a guy and putting it into it. And then it's like, wow. That was incredible. Hey.

T.C.:

I just I it was adrenaline. I was like, no. That was something else. That's enough of a moment Mhmm. To send our five looking for John Wick in the right like, if someone catches it on their cell phone or whatnot, even says, like, a hint of, like, this dude kill I swear this guy killed a guy with a banana.

T.C.:

And then and then and then our five show up, and one of them could even show up before the others and say, hey, Baba Yaga. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, I know who you are, and, I'm ready to make my name on you. Mhmm. Knew you weren't dead.

T.C.:

And I'm just letting you know, I'll even give you a head start because I want this to be a fair fight. I'm not just gonna assassinate you. I wanna fight you. And, some of my friends are coming too. So if I don't get you, they will.

T.C.:

See you tomorrow. I'd I'll be seeing you. Sorry. To to borrow the phrase that's said in the series a lot. And John's like, I'm packing up and leaving to get out of this town before before they get here.

T.C.:

Before I have my covers blown.

Jim:

Sure.

T.C.:

Sure. And before he can get out, they start converging on this town. And now it's John Wick versus five assassins who have just shown up to make their name by killing him. And the small town that John Wick lives in that he doesn't wanna see mixed up in this nonsense, he just wants to like, leave my leave me alone. I'm I'm done.

T.C.:

Leave my home alone. Leave leave these people alone. And now it's John Wick protecting his his home and all these people from these these killers who've shown up. Sure. Did that take your your five assassins idea and and flip it?

T.C.:

Because I like your idea that John

Jim:

flip it.

T.C.:

That John Wick isn't in the movie, but I think that would

Jim:

Well, when I say isn't in the he's in the movie, but he's in the movie, like Not do an action. Until he does. He's yeah. Correct. Yeah.

Jim:

He because they're looking for him, and he is hidden. Right? So it's it's he's like the So Pick pick any horror movie. He's he's he's the alien. He's the predator.

Jim:

He's he's the cenobite. So he he he's because because he is the Baba Yaga. Yeah. He he right. The the legend is he he can only be found if he wants to be found type type of thing.

T.C.:

Right.

Jim:

So you just pitched. That's good, and we can do that, but I don't care. I want I wanna finish my pitch. Go ahead. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah. Right. So they they dig it up, and and maybe what they find is they find they find a MacGuffin. And and I'll I'll I'll this this MacGuffin's gonna have a few attributes.

Jim:

But they take they take whatever's there. It's not it's not a marker. It's it's something new. I'd I'd I'd I'd I'd know what yet. Mhmm.

Jim:

A timepiece. Maybe. It's it's something that they're like, well, if he's not here, we're gonna take this as proof. We dug him up for we dug up the grave proving he's not there. We have the thing that was left left there.

Jim:

And so then when they start going around, they go to the continental or they go somewhere and start kind of poking about or saying we did this or that. The in the entire world that they they expect a couple different reactions from don't react the way they expected. Mm-mm. They it reacts really hostile to them. Like right?

Jim:

Like, we're looking for we're looking for John Wick. Who's asking? Like, put the thing on the on the the the counter, slide it over. I'm asking. Where did you get that?

Jim:

Yeah. You know where I got it. Like, acting all tough. Yeah. Like, you need to leave now.

T.C.:

You get out. Yeah. You're not welcome here. Continental's a sanctuary. Not for you, it isn't.

Jim:

Yeah. Not not with that in hand. Well, wait. Well, then I don't want it. It's too that's yours.

T.C.:

Yeah. That's yours now. Where and wherever the rest of it is, whatever

Jim:

Like like like you're marked. Now, if you don't take it, that's even worse for you.

T.C.:

That's some good this is some good like mystery lore

Jim:

Sort of. Yeah.

T.C.:

What have I done? And if they broke it into pieces and like they're not together?

Jim:

Oh, maybe. Maybe.

T.C.:

Some cursed treasure.

Jim:

Sort of. That's sort of what's happened here. So their only choice because now the their their world, their world of assassins has turned on them for what they've done. They they are now marked. They're they're now cursed.

Jim:

Right. In a way. So now their only choice is to find the Baba Yaga. Mhmm. And so they they go hunting, and it's not gonna go well for them because John Wick doesn't want to be found.

T.C.:

I'm nodding. Sorry.

Jim:

Yeah.

T.C.:

Yeah. Every and then, worth mentioning. Yes. Go on.

Jim:

And I don't have many other beats than that. Probably, like like most of them probably don't make it out, but whichever one we decide to sympathize with, they actually like

T.C.:

I they they told her

Jim:

they should

T.C.:

or whatever. Told they shouldn't do it when they were like they were like, we're gonna dig it up. I was like, you better not. You better not. You better not.

T.C.:

Then they did.

Jim:

I know. I was watching. I was there.

T.C.:

Oh, no. I mean, like

Jim:

I don't Something like that. And so then or or something like John Wick leaves them alive to tell the story. Don't come after me.

T.C.:

Don't don't try to find me.

Jim:

Yeah. That's that's most of most of my pitch.

T.C.:

Kent, do you not want to fold that into what I pitch so that because it can all work together that these five idiots No. Get the dude to know?

Jim:

No. Because mine it the movie follows them. It follows follows their journey of it turns John Wick into a mystery. And they're now trying to solve that mystery.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Whereas your pitch, we follow John.

T.C.:

Right. Right.

Jim:

Could we do a Like, you taking the characters the way you did and incorporating them that way, that's fine. That I'm that that's fine.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just trying to see

Jim:

I just wanted to finish the pitch a, so it's on mic and b. Alright. Just in case something about it grabbed you and like, yes, that's the one. But if it doesn't, that's fine. We can we can stick with

T.C.:

with I like I like

Jim:

what you're

T.C.:

pitching. My my my main feeling is the ballerina issue, which is peep it's the Harry Potter wizard world kind of thing. It's like, we're here for this guy, and so I don't care about these characters. I wanna see them get their asses handed to them because I'm here to see John. That's my concern about the developing this and not making him be the central character.

T.C.:

It it can work. I'm just it starts to become it verges and risks becoming Luke Skywalker is in hiding, and he's not really interest in integral to the journey of our protagonists. I I don't want it to be some

Jim:

Okay. I I think you're I'm I'm not then conveying how much like, John Wick is in my pitch as much as literally, I keep comparing it to slashers, to to as as much as Michael Myers is in Halloween.

T.C.:

So is

Jim:

every Freddie is in Nightmare on Elm Street.

T.C.:

So with every time one of these dumbass assassins, these these people who have something Yeah. Proved get close, John just disposes them, leaves them for a message, disappears into the shadows. Right?

Jim:

To to be short about it.

T.C.:

Yeah. Right. Yes. I'm and I'm I'm being concise in my description of it. Yes.

T.C.:

I could see that working. Where are where is this happening?

Jim:

I haven't decided yet.

T.C.:

Right. So which is why I'm if we give John a town that he has moved to and loves and has just disappeared into, and and that town is his identity and the place he's created sanctuary is now threatened by these people coming in to find him. Now we have a specific location that John is defending. Alternatively

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Five people dig up John Wick's grave. They break up the the gold pieces that are inside of it and go to Winston for we follow character number one goes in says, look what I got. Yeah. And Winston's like, you dumb bastard. You're not welcome Get out of here.

T.C.:

He's like, what are you talking about? And we watch this assassin number one, like, screw that. I'm gonna find him, and goes out and follows the mystery and tracks him down and kicks down a door, and there's John Wick and bam bam bam bam bam bam. He's dead. Assassin number two walks into the next place, and we just go five chapters of John Wick Chapter John Wick Chapter five, and we see John as almost this that the myth of John Wick is now being recounted.

T.C.:

It's it's practically I almost got him, the episode of Batman, the animated series Sure. Where each one of the I mean

Jim:

That that's a better compare that that's how much I intend John Wick to be in this story.

T.C.:

But to to essentially tell five stories of John Wick being hunted down five different ways by five different people, and him just disposing of them so that he literally is this this this shade, this poltergeist, this this Yeah. Being that no matter where on earth you think you can find him, you shouldn't have. Sure. Wait. Yeah.

T.C.:

That that we follow the five assassins one at a time, and one at a time they get disposed of. And so we get to tell like five mini movies all in one big nine or two hour movie.

Jim:

Are are you pivoting?

T.C.:

No. No. I'm I'm saying your five assassins Yeah.

Jim:

I thought I thought you were telling your story. I'm like, wait, how does that dovetail into yours into your case?

T.C.:

I'm going off yours. You I'm I'm I'm embracing yours that there that there are these that he

Jim:

is I love that. That's yeah.

T.C.:

That even in in one of them let's say one of them is a tweaker. Like, he's just totally, like, yacked out of his mind. And when he goes to fight John Wick, there's three John Wicks. And we and when he keeps turning, he's like, how did he get over there? Oh, he's up there now.

T.C.:

And, like, he's a fucking Dracula. I swear John Wick's a vampire.

Jim:

Yeah.

T.C.:

So so then it could be chaptered in so so in such a way, even like Almost Got Him, the Batman animated series episode where it's them sitting around like, what happened to your arm? Well, I was in Nova Scotia, and I was certain I found the Baba Yaga. I don't

Jim:

know if I wanna do that. I didn't I didn't care for your initially, your pitch where they all decide good luck to each of you and they each go their separate way.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But I can see that working better with with this Okay. This notion. They're them each going their separate way and then we follow One at a time. Each of them.

T.C.:

And and and certainly a way to do it would be a b c d a b c d e, like popcorn in the plots. Sure. I think there's some fun to be had in breaking this up into five pieces, like the the very thing they found in in

Jim:

It it becomes a little bit Rashomon, and I'm I'm I'm okay with that.

T.C.:

Already I like Yojimbo. So

Jim:

I like the idea of doing right? We so we give that whole intro. We they they they they find their their their cursed gold. Mhmm. And they say Good luck.

Jim:

We we're we're alright. We were right. Now let's go let's go find let let's let's go find Bigfoot.

T.C.:

Yes. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. Let's let's prove the assassin world is full of shit because we know it is right here. Yeah. And, like, so then they go, and the the world doesn't react the way like, maybe one of the guys doesn't even make it to to John Yeah. The not necessarily the continental, but just the the that world turns on him because, no, that's that's our freaking patron saint.

Jim:

Right. You just desecrated the patron saint of of assassins.

T.C.:

Absolute knob. Yeah. Dumbass. Yeah. Now in order like, it could be as fun as that.

T.C.:

As simple as that, like, this guy, one, two, three, four, five, John Wick lives the end. Mhmm. There also could be an element of dabbling just a little bit into not repeating the mythology and not the high table stuff, but having someone assigned to document this world and the people in it. A a reoccurring character with all with all I mean, not not like Winston Wolf from Pulp Fiction, but someone who is who is an observer, who who

Jim:

I see what you're saying.

T.C.:

So that a a reoccurring face to to to to narrate this or link it all together one way or another, so that when the the actual climax of this movie isn't the fifth assassin versus John Wick, and even telling these stories out of order if we wanna go assassin three, assassin five, assassin one, assassin four, six.

Jim:

The other reason I said Rashomon, is you you said popcorn. If we didn't popcorn, just doing one chapter at a time. Yes. But we're telling it in such a way, like, they don't necessarily all go five different directions. Mhmm.

Jim:

So that we we we might see their tails split at certain points or or cross each other at certain points. Yeah. Yeah. That that's sorry. That that is what I meant.

Jim:

I don't know why I felt I needed to clarify that.

T.C.:

It's essentially what I'm saying with this reporter character Sure. This documentarian, the the the person who documents don't need to keep elaborating on what he is, seeing him in all the stories. And the climax, it could be the fifth kill.

Jim:

Am I am I misremembering? Wasn't there a character in one of the four movies who, like, said they were they were writing some sort of memoir?

T.C.:

Well, we're coming up on the break here. We can look at it Probably real

Jim:

not. I'm probably mixing it up with a different But

T.C.:

the final climactic fight is not any of the assassins. It could be. It could be John versus this guy who's been documenting the whole thing. And John's like, I don't want this documented. I'm dead.

T.C.:

Give me your book. I can't do that. I have I have my rules too. I need to document. This this must

Jim:

be the deadly world of journalism.

T.C.:

I guess we're about to find out if the pen really is mightier than the sword. So that the final final throw down, the climactic fight is John versus this guy. That this ends up being our big final battle. That's so then we can we can see five cool action sequences minimum, and then a sixth and final one of John saying, you're not documenting this. I will not let you walk away.

T.C.:

You can you can walk away without this story, or you can try to fight to keep it, and I will kill you. So digest that. We'll look up if there's a document someone document

Jim:

It doesn't it what I'm remembering is they were documenting doc they were writing their own memoir, Mhmm. And there there wasn't much beyond that. Okay. I'm probably totally attributing it from something else. It's from Roadhouse.

Jim:

Roadhouse.

T.C.:

Yeah. It was Sam Elliott. No. I'm kidding. Just Okay.

T.C.:

Alright. Let's take a quick break here. We'll hear maybe there's another show to be plugged here. But Alright. I'll let you all listen to that and find out while Jim and I go grab some water.

T.C.:

Because I because I can feel how dry my throat is. Oh, yeah. I feel like I'm right out here. Okay. We'll be right back.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yep. John Witt. Are we back? We're back.

T.C.:

Yeah. I'm thinking we're back. Like the movie. Don't don't under don't Don't point at it. Yeah.

T.C.:

Shoot. I'm sorry. I'm thinking I'm bad at this. Yeah. Anyway, we're back.

T.C.:

Okay. Okay. So what what are thinking? So Yeah.

Jim:

I'm loving this. I would love this movie. Okay. I'm not sure John Wickhams would love this movie, I'm Well,

T.C.:

okay. First off, I'm glad you're liking where this is at because mashing these ideas together like, I you turned me towards your idea of this, like, him being the thing we're going

Jim:

after. You're not you're not just doing it to to move the episode forward.

T.C.:

I I I do think expanding this to a full feature, we can touch on some of the ideas I have. Like, one of these chapters could be more John Wickes just living his day to day life and getting getting like, not being the phantom in the distance. Whatever. I I like this notion of him being the thing there. Like, the the let's go kill Bigfoot kind of thing.

T.C.:

Like, I I like that's a good pitch. Now so I'm glad that you like it. I think Yeah. It the key factor here is putting a weapon in Kanner Reeves' hand and watching him kill people.

Jim:

Yeah. That that's that's what I was I was realizing, like, oh, we took the the like, this is the perspective of what it would look like from a target of John Wick's.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But we as the audience aren't getting all of the fun tropes of John Wick of watching him get the shit kicked out of

T.C.:

him. And killing 50 guys. Yeah. Right. To that point, I think there's a way to get there.

T.C.:

I do think that there's a way for this to work if because it does come down to, if we can have them at least once or twice dominate an entire building or room full of people, then we're we're gonna check off those boxes. Because that's what you I'm guessing that's what you're saying is that Yeah. That that doesn't it doesn't do enough of that, therefore, fans will be like, this feels meh. Yeah. Meh.

T.C.:

Worse him killing the whole club of people like he did in the first one. Yeah. Keep dancing. Keep driving. I hear you, and I I think that it's possible to to work that into this.

T.C.:

This notion of five assassins trying to hunt down and kill Baba Yaga. If just one of these guys does it in a fashion where okay. Something John Wick it's not quite established in the first one. There's hints of this, but it's very much so from the second one on. People got gimmicks.

T.C.:

Yeah. Okay. So having your Jimmy's to borrow from Bone Temple Yeah. That like attracts a group. It's like it's like, oh, yeah.

T.C.:

I'm the one who dug up the grave. I'm one of the five, but I got a crew, and I'm bringing my crew to find John Wick. I just make you know, then then there's someone who's, as you say, bussing in victims. Yeah. So I do think there's a possibility of even if that's the the the third guy or the second one, someone comes in with, like, his crew of 15, and now John Wick versus 15 people can happen.

Jim:

Sure.

T.C.:

If if their gimmick is having a crew. Yeah. That get I think that would satisfy the John Wick fans. Like, oh, yeah. Let's see him mop the floor with a group of people.

T.C.:

The the there's an element here that's that's sort of tweaking the John Wick mythology is that, and this is kind of the first one, people are coming to him, like when he was at the continental. Right? Yeah. That's when Mockingbird I can't remember her name. The woman assassin tries to and breaks the rules.

T.C.:

This Adrian Petalecki. Thank you. That people are coming to him. This whole story isn't him seeking out. He's not trying to at least at first, they're coming in coming for him, and he's putting a stop to it each time.

T.C.:

So it's not like he's going into a club and cleaning cleaning the cleaning it out. He could be at a supermarket, and then all the employees are actually on the payroll of this one assassin. Maybe? I'm I'm sort of rambling right now, and I don't I don't have a solid thing to grasp onto. So give me your hand, Jim.

Jim:

I'm I'm I'm thinking about three three things at once. Okay.

T.C.:

Say all three things at the same time. Okay.

Jim:

Carter Boucher, Doe, Frick John Wick. I broke them. Right. So five guys. Five guys make this pack, maybe six.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Five assassins. They're nice. They're not essential. They're not saying we're not saying they're men.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Five, six killers, assassins, wannabes, punk asses, young,

Jim:

old, stupid. So so if you want your your your journalist guy to be there, I think I think maybe it it it would be coolest if John actually doesn't interact with him. He's he's picking up stories from these these guys as they pass through, or maybe he maybe he even goes with one of them on these things, but leaves before it it gets deadly.

T.C.:

Then that's my cue.

Jim:

Basically, I have this idea for the ending Okay. Where John Wick has has taken out all five of of of these would be usurpers.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And we we just we get we get a scene of him walking back into the con like like right. Because if they have these the they have these cursed. They've been cursed with these items. The world knows you did this.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And we get John Wick. It it tastefully shadowed so, oh, is that John Wick? We know it's John Wick. Mhmm. But the idea is he's walking back into the world, and and and everyone is is being polite.

Jim:

Like, you're not real. You're not a you're you're not here. You're a ghost kinda thing. Except for maybe, right

T.C.:

Winston's the concierge.

Jim:

Yeah. Basically. But John Wick walks up to the to the desk where the where the concierge is Mhmm. Puts the the five items that he's taken from from them back and says, please return these to where they belong and leaves. And that that that's it.

Jim:

That's all of his interaction with the Continental. Yeah. As as you wish, mister mister Wick. Mhmm.

T.C.:

As you wish. Rest, sir.

Jim:

Rest in peace.

T.C.:

Rest in peace, sir.

Jim:

Yeah. So the the the so the idea being they then go rebury these things. Mhmm. Not necessarily that that's where they belong. Right?

Jim:

Like, that is the legend of John Wick. And so he's out there somewhere. And if anyone else comes along and dares to dares to disturb this again Yeah. Especially in that capacity, dig up this if anyone dared dig up this story figuratively and literally, this is this is the result. But then having that that guy, that documentarian

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Sitting over at a table seeing this, sees all that, and John Wick leaves, doesn't doesn't even necessarily glance over at him.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And it like, and he's he's scribbling away, and Winston comes over and takes the book.

T.C.:

Hey. Yeah.

Jim:

And and I'd I'd say so it says something clever about how the this isn't for for that that story can't won't see the light of day. Something like that.

T.C.:

Yeah. You Because Yeah.

Jim:

Because I also do want the last guy John Wick doesn't kill, and he says, you will tell the story of you will tell the story that Baba Yaga is dead. Mhmm. So or or something like that. The the whole idea of leaving one survivor.

T.C.:

Yes. Yes. And not the documentary documentarian. Because Winston could say allude to something like, you only document the people within our guild. You will you document the stories of of the the living and assassins or whatever.

Jim:

Our society prefers their privacy. Something classy.

T.C.:

Just that, like, you don't you don't need to tell the story of a dead man.

Jim:

You don't get to tell

T.C.:

the story. Oh, you don't get to tell the story of a dead man. Yeah. Mhmm. And then, do you do you like the notion of these chapters

Jim:

being told? Some ghosts shouldn't be disturbed.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Spirits.

Jim:

Demons. Demons.

T.C.:

The notion of telling this out of order. Kill Bill, Rashomon, Strange Darling style. Is there anything is there an advantage to that? To

Jim:

I'm not seeing an advantage to it. I'm not seeing disadvantage either.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Like, don't know what sort of I I don't know how we could reveal new information or or new details.

T.C.:

In a in a nonlinear. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

I think just and then the next chapter and then yeah.

Jim:

And and like the way they're told I I kinda like the idea that we tell them in whatever order we want. There's an insinuation, actually, that they might even be simultaneous.

T.C.:

Yeah. I don't mind that. Especially if we see little background stuff that overlaps between one or the other.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Pulp fiction esque, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay.

Jim:

Oh, also we can have another big old fight scene. Yeah. At the beginning, it is a story being told. Mhmm. One of the veterans there at the at the, like, the continental is telling that our our group of of Woodbeys.

Jim:

Yeah. Woodbeys. The tale his tale of John Wick.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And it could be, you know, a good a a big old hallway fight in which that's how he he that that that's why this elbow clicks every time. I don't know. Something something like that. Like, that's how I lost this eye. And and it was at

T.C.:

it was at that period of time where he left no survivors. Well, you survived. Yeah. What does that tell you?

Jim:

You left. Actually, that could be decent foreshadowing. To leave

T.C.:

he left one person to tell the tale. Yeah. It might be a more elegant way to drop that Yeah. That that one was left behind so that this tale this warning could be and so so, like, oh, wow. I I I would love to see him in action.

T.C.:

Oh, I bet if he's still out there with Sean, what part of this story didn't you understand? You do not wanna find this man. This was a cautionary

Jim:

You're he's

T.C.:

dead and gone. Yeah. This was a this was not meant for you to be inspired to go find him. It was meant to say Yeah. Stay away from that sort of nonsense.

T.C.:

Yeah. He's wrong. Let's go dig this guy up. Maybe. Yeah.

T.C.:

Yeah. And then yeah. That's a that's that's so in the end, that final throwdown

Jim:

Are we not supposed to have cameos?

T.C.:

It like, I let me look at the plan.

Jim:

Us doing the continental and Winston and all that is are we are we explicitly supposed to be going to another world? To to to like a whole other

T.C.:

Cameos. World. I don't I don't feel like we are relying on the Cameos. It's just you you inserted Continental as a as a almost near the epilogue of this of and I think that that feels

Jim:

Well, you inserted the Continental earlier.

T.C.:

Right. Right. Right. I'm just saying we're not relying on it as this is all about the continental and overthrowing the chair and all that. Cameos.

T.C.:

Not bigger, not a clue. Was that merry melodies? Was that Yeah. Yeah. Not fan service cameos is Oh, the sure.

T.C.:

And so I don't think what we're suggesting here is a

Jim:

fan Even service if he's a main character, that is a that is a fan service y cameo.

T.C.:

The what I what I'm gonna define that as is, like, three p o and r two d two being in Rogue One. There's a cameo for the fans. Yeah. What we're actually putting here is narratively significant. Because it doesn't have to be Winston that takes the book away and say, that's not a story you're gonna tell.

T.C.:

It's just happenstance that's him to do it. Mhmm.

Jim:

And

T.C.:

I think that separates this from, look. Oh, it's the guy, and actually being narratively significant.

Jim:

Okay.

T.C.:

So that's my in defense of going to the continental without it being disrupting the mythology that exists. It really is about just laying foundation for, hey, this is existing within this world, the world of John Wick

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

And now how are these characters gonna go forth and try to find him? You had suggested that there's there could be an insinuation that this all took place all at once. And or, like, there's some overlapping here.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Is there a way can you conceive away with me here now? And you might be able to put a quick kibosh on this. That chapter one, chapter two, chapter three like, we tell these chapters and they have their action sequences within them Mhmm. And we get to see John Wick do his thing. Is there a way for maybe in the climax of this all, we then see all five four or all five previous action sequences did happen at the same time, and we see it all again from John Wick's POV, and realize what we watched was all literally one thing after the other.

T.C.:

Maybe? That's a real tough juggling act, I'm suggesting, to be like, oh, what a cool chapter moving on to the next. Oh, what a cool chapter moving on to the next. And then the big Kleenex is like, wait, this all happened this all happened at You the same

Jim:

know what? Because we're here pitching this?

T.C.:

Yeah. Yes. It can be that.

Jim:

We can do that. So just, you know, imagine that. Isn't that isn't that cool? The diff

T.C.:

The difficulty of doing such a thing is the location. As soon as the location for one is

Jim:

is Yeah. Because then we have to have all five at the same location in near enough the same time.

T.C.:

Yeah. And I and I

Jim:

And and that really kind of bottles it. Right.

T.C.:

If it was John Wick in that small town as I was suggesting in my pitch, then it's really easy to kinda go, well, this all happened in the same day at the same place in the same time. And then that that fun little gimmick doesn't work. Mhmm. It's not a shock to see suddenly it's, oh, it's all at once, and we're not entering any time portals here that allow him to traverse time and space. Yeah.

Jim:

So And I think I I think it would be more fun if it took place across a week.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. That maybe one chapter takes place over two days, one chapter takes place over a course of twelve hours

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

One chapter takes four days, and then the fifth one yeah. Like, having it set within a very tight timeline, but in multiple places, then creates the element of, wait. How did John get from that location to that location? How how reliable is our narrator here? If there's that little bit of supernatural element, like, wait, if he was up in the snow, how the hell did he get down in the forest?

Jim:

I'll I'll I'm gonna offer one change to to sort of what you just said. Mhmm. To to basically suggest these chapters as we're laying them out, it turns out this is so the the way the the the opening is someone retelling their their John Wick tale

T.C.:

Yes.

Jim:

Like, basically insinuating this movie without opening it as, I I shall be your narrator.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

It in the end, it was the documentary. Because I initially I initially didn't want him to be the one who was left alive. Right. Because a document even if you took his manuscript manuscript away, away, he's still a storyteller Mhmm. Who will remember and know enough.

Jim:

I'll just rewrite it. Right. You dick. I'm not gonna have all the details that I did, but I'm just gonna do it again later. Mhmm.

Jim:

So that's why I wanted that's why I was thinking of making him sort of a separate thing from all of that.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But it does feel redundant to have one of the one of the would be's be the survivor and have a storyteller.

T.C.:

Yes. Yes.

Jim:

Yes. So I'm coming around to making them the same one. If if we can make that work and and then my story was so the line that that he'd be told when the the the book is taken is, like, this is an oral story. So something like like that. You You

T.C.:

should

Jim:

Yeah. This this is not something

T.C.:

This is an oral history. Yeah.

Jim:

It'll be written down.

T.C.:

You have to tell it. So making the document documentarian a sixth character in this narrative?

Jim:

Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. I And then and then he def then he would show up Yes. Definitely at some point in

T.C.:

I'm for that. I I In the stories. Pitched it, so I'm more interested It's in seeing that just a it creates a cohesive gel of a person who's who is popping up in these stories to ask the questions to to be the witness filling out his little notebook, and yet that that Winston would take it away or someone would take it away and go, no no no no. This is an oral history. You share it that way.

Jim:

Something like that. Yeah.

T.C.:

I still would like to see John and that character have a little bit of

Jim:

Well, then the the other option would be actually do have a confrontation, and maybe this makes John Wick too much of a bad guy. But now I'm thinking almost like, have you seen I don't remember what it was called. It wasn't called cigarette burns. It was it was a short story by Stephen King. It was put into one of his anthology movies.

Jim:

The not what was the one cat's a cat's cradle? Is that what

T.C.:

it's called? Eye.

Jim:

Cat's eye. Yep. It was in cat's eye. The character wants to quit smoking.

T.C.:

Yeah. That sounds right.

Jim:

And the organization is like, we'll help you.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And it turns out in the extreme cases, like, the way they end up helping is by, we're gonna cut we're not gonna cut your finger off. We'll cut your wife's finger off.

T.C.:

Yes. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. And in the end, he's like he avoided it. So he's like, I I don't know if they I don't if they actually would have done it. That was pretty extreme. And he looks over and and his friend who had done it previously, his wife is missing her pinky finger.

Jim:

I'm trying to I'm trying to build towards something like that to suggest that when we get to the end of the movie after all of these tales have been told and after the book's been taken away Mhmm. Somehow revealing that writer character, and he's missing a finger. Mhmm. He's missing an eye. I I I something like that to so for his his part in the tale, his part is being the one left to live.

Jim:

Like, actually, maybe that's what happens. Like, I'm not gonna kill you because you're the last. You shall tell the story. Mhmm. And so maybe it's John that takes away.

Jim:

But not this way, and he takes

T.C.:

the Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That actually that actually tightens up a little bit to say and yes. To to say that, no, you know how this goes.

T.C.:

Even if that's the line that the documentarian keeps saying Sure. If he's involved at one point in an action sequence that's playing out and and he says, you know how this goes? I don't get involved. I just document. I'm I'm I'm the one who tells the tore story.

T.C.:

If that's basically his anthem so that John turns the tables on him in the end and says, no. You know how this goes. You're the one who tells the story, and you don't tell it this way, and takes the book away. Oh, yeah. You got me, John.

T.C.:

I do know how this goes. Also, in the attempt to take the book away, he could resist and be like and they could have a little bit of a of a scuffle if we want another action sequence there, if all but brief.

Jim:

I think it would've I I think that would 've this the the the taking of the book is after a confrontation has happened.

T.C.:

Okay. After a confrontation between John and the doc yeah. I just wanna see them fight is essentially what I'm saying. Oh, okay. Just I just like the idea of this guy who's been a bookworm the whole time, who's not who won't get involved with any Oh, action I

Jim:

see. So okay. I have a question about that. Why is he involved? Who involved him?

Jim:

Why is he why does anyone tolerate his presence?

T.C.:

It's literally I'm I'm suggesting this is a new edition of the mythology that there's literally people assigned within this universe in this world Oh. That are the documentarians. There's a librarian. Is there? No.

T.C.:

I'm saying we make this up. That there's a character who's or there are positions within this world to document all this

Jim:

stuff. Mhmm.

T.C.:

Like, we're we're I'm trying to add to the mythology Gotcha. A character who is whose title is the librarian.

Jim:

The writer is adding a writer.

T.C.:

How freaking narcissistic of me.

Jim:

It's every writer does it. Now that I understand that, I don't know I don't have a good reason to say no.

T.C.:

The another way to do this is, and this will draw on the Continental series, that's the prequel series about Winston. In that series, there's a cop who starts investigating the Continental. She's she's an outsider. She actually goes into the bar at one point, she sits there, like, how may I help you my lady? And she orders a drink, and like, that's great.

T.C.:

And then the waiter just looks at her and she puts real money on the table and he goes, I'm sorry, I don't think you're at the right bar.

Jim:

I'm so mad. I wanted to watch that show. I didn't get to watch that show or ballerina, so I don't know how they they world built there.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

I'm so mad. That that was I loved that that sounds amazing. I like that. I like what you just described. What I missed out on watching that show.

Jim:

I love that. That makes me so angry. That's a thing I would sorry. I I know we're supposed to be pitching a movie and

T.C.:

not rewriting. That's okay. But that's

Jim:

a thing I hated that they changed over to. I forget which movie they did it in, but they did it pretty soon. And then the rest of it was just like, $60,000,000 to get John Wick. What do mean dollars? Go back

T.C.:

to the coins. Coins. Yeah.

Jim:

What the hell? Why did you change?

T.C.:

I don't know.

Jim:

I yeah. Sorry. Sorry.

T.C.:

Pet peeve. The reason I even brought this up is that having the if it's not a documentarian, a librarian character, a So scribe

Jim:

here's my problem with that is, if that is an official person in this world

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And it's not just some dude looking to sell a book to the the poi poi

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

That might be the wrong word. The rabble Mhmm. The what whatever.

T.C.:

Then let them. Yes. Yeah. And yes, now that you've said that, I'm realizing the error. I am much more for mythology building that there is a position within this guild that's that is someone who writes the tales.

Jim:

So that being so now having said that, we lose the whole taking away the manuscript and all that. We can have that character and he's documenting all this. That's fine. I still think There's no reason to have him be an unreliable narrator. Right.

Jim:

There's no reason to have him

T.C.:

I well, I still think I like the idea of John saying, you're the one you're the last one. You're the one who tells the tale, but not like that.

Jim:

Why not? Why not like that? The book is at best gonna go into the private Collection. Us yeah. The private collection to only be read by other allowed assassins or whatever.

Jim:

Okay.

T.C.:

Then, yeah, I guess we don't it's a it's an unnecessary addition to the story to have John take the book away. Unless he does a sleight of hand and does take the book away, leaving the guy thinking he has it, and then when he opens it up, it's empty.

Jim:

John Wick always being cheeky.

T.C.:

Yeah. And then he's like, shit. I gotta rewrite this down from memory.

Jim:

Well, I don't have a good memory. I've been saying it the whole movie.

T.C.:

I've been writing this stuff down the whole time, so I didn't have to remember. So five morons hear the tale of John Wick. We open the movie with an incredible action sequence, and they hear the tale. And they decide to find out for themselves if John Wick is actually dead because if he's not, they can find him and make a name for themselves. They dig up the grave.

T.C.:

They do find the casket empty, except for an item that they break between the the five of them and wish each other luck. May the best man win. And then the the prologue is complete. Chapter one begins. And we tell the tale of assassin number one and whatever his gimmick may be as he hunts down and finds John Wick.

Jim:

I was thinking about the gimmicks, and I kinda wanted to establish them sooner than possibly that. What do you think about it opens, and we get five little intros of each of these dudes doing their job. So so we get to see a gimmick. We get to see them kill people Mhmm. Successfully

T.C.:

They are good at what they do.

Jim:

Doing doing their thing.

T.C.:

Yeah. Cut

Jim:

oh, and and actually maybe at the at the end of each one, it's them walking into the continental to to pick a place. We could also invent a new place if we wanted. For now, though, we'll put it at the continental. Walking in, sitting down, taking their drink, maybe we see the others in in the room. Mhmm.

Jim:

Cut, do Rewind. Second. Yeah. So we do five. That's kind of a lot.

Jim:

But we basically, we need to establish who they are, what their gimmick is, and that they're they're good at this.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

So when they they be they decide on folly later, it's not just you you you freaking incompetent dummies. Mhmm. So we finished those five. I wanna insinuate somehow. I I I failed to insinuate that what we just watched was them telling their story to the others.

Jim:

So then that all gets wrapped together with this sixth guy who's been sitting nearby overhearing their story, then he tells the tale of of John Wick.

T.C.:

The big action sequence to open the movie.

Jim:

What is that too far? Because that's almost like, that'll end up being like ten minutes into the movie that we that we've Yeah. Finally get that.

T.C.:

Every now and then, we'll see a movie. I'll see a movie where the title is dropped. Like, title card is at like the twenty minute mark. Like, oh, I forgot this was gonna happen. Hundreds of beavers or that's the only one I can think of right now.

T.C.:

But that the oh, no. There's a Sebastian Stan flesh, think it was. Feed? Oh,

Jim:

I know the one you're talking The the one yeah. Where he's a where he's a cook.

T.C.:

Yes. Well put. I I like where your head's at in showing off their gimmicks as fast as possible.

Jim:

Because because that way we establish that, we get the story that ties in that story ends, like and and and he's like, so no one will ever hold a candle to John Wick.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Pun intended. Right. God rest his soul. Yeah. And he kinda goes his way.

Jim:

These five guys Gets to talk to. They all exchange like like, for for movie economy, they all exchange looks cut to graveyard. Yeah.

T.C.:

Finding the item, breaking it into pieces, wishing each other luck going separate ways, chapter one begins. I I I wanna suggest that we open with the big action sequence and the story being told to the five, and then go into the graveyard. And then when each chapter starts, we we see their gimmick right away, and then proceed to finding John Wick, and then I I said it out loud, and I realized that it's like, we're gonna establish it here to pay it off in fifteen minutes anyway, and there is something there there there is a more clever way for us to introduce it as fast as possible in the opening, so that we see the stuff pay off intermittently throughout. Yeah. It's just a lot to introduce the five, then tell the story, then get to the graveyard as the inciting incident.

T.C.:

It's an act one broken in. It's a this is a weirdly structured film in It is. That it's five chapters plus a prologue and an epilogue.

Jim:

What if we do that intro? What we do we do the the Harbinger's intro.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Then it goes to the five. They do get to talking. And as we sort of as each one gets to sign it, kinda say their major Yes. Notion in in what they're doing Yeah. Do of, like, a like, a thirty second montage.

T.C.:

Yes. I wanna I'm I got it. Okay. If even. Yeah.

T.C.:

Dude tells the opening sequence. Like, we kick the movie off. Boom. Right into action. Yeah.

T.C.:

Like, no title card. Just boom. Go go go go go go go We see Keanu Reeves kick some ass for a couple minutes and then cut to the the harbinger, as you're gonna call them. Tell them the tale tell these these and these five people have been listening in the bar. They gather around the table.

T.C.:

They discuss, like, oh, you hear all that John Wick all lamenting never getting to meet him, lamenting never getting a chance to fight him to to to to kill him. Yeah. This is how I would

Jim:

do it. Real convenient, the unkillable assassin's dead, isn't it?

T.C.:

Yeah. Really convenient. Oh, man. You know what I would do? Yeah.

T.C.:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You think you can just walk in and do that? No. This is what I would do.

T.C.:

Like, they they all start saying in quick succession how they would do it. And when we do see them finally fight John Wick, every attempt to try to live up to what they did, we see it brief like a split second, it almost goes exactly as they said they were gonna do it, and then immediately falls apart. But just in a in a just like, I would kill them this way. I would kill them this way. We get to see their gimmick in this real quick you just suggested a quick montage.

T.C.:

I'm saying, do it at a table of them saying how they would do it. And then we get to see real quick, real flashy, what they believe they're capable of doing against John Wick. And then each chapter allows us to see what they really can do.

Jim:

Two reasons why I I'm I I can be convinced that it would be fine. If, like, if we were in a committee, if the the the if the studio Yeah. Was like, no. We like that.

T.C.:

Ronnie.

Jim:

Yeah. Fine. Fine. I I I give in. Rebut it.

Jim:

But the two things I don't like is, one, it's imagination. Mhmm. So even though we're getting to see their gimmick, it's them telling building themselves up at their at we don't get to see them actually be good at their job. We get to see them be good about talking about their job. Okay.

Jim:

Fair. And the other point is we see them do it

T.C.:

to John Wick. Right. So instead of them saying this is how I would kill John Wick, how about I had this job in Peru? That's how Yeah. That's how I would do it.

T.C.:

Yeah. You think a flamethrower is gonna work? It worked then. Yeah. We're talking about John Wick.

Jim:

I see. I I like, I more more of that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

Essentially that. I don't I don't think doing the flashback to what they do needs to be done necessarily in context of and that's what I would do to John Wick.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But just sort of as they as they introduce themselves in the conversation. And, I mean, that ultimately is what they're talking about. I don't know why I'm being so No. It's okay.

T.C.:

It's it's structured. It's this is that it's nitpicky, but it's also important because it lays it lays foundation. Oh, hey. Hey. Hey.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. I know you. Yeah.

Jim:

You're the guy who did so and so. You had

T.C.:

the scuba diving thing. Right?

Jim:

Oh, you heard about that?

T.C.:

Man. Oh, I just you know me, I just use knives. Put those weapons away. I'm not using them, but I would. That sort of thing that I know you Yeah.

T.C.:

This is how what I've done. Just that I think Yeah. Maybe that. It's sort of mashing all these ideas into one thing.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

So then when they go to the graveyard, drunkenly dig up John Wick and find the piece, break it up, chapters begin. Now we go one, two, three, four, five through the story. The thread that survives this whole thing is our reporter character who documents this in the background of sorts so that when we get to, say, we'll call it chapter six, we get is that the epilogue? Just the the deck, the librarian or whatever we're gonna call them, recounting, watching all this take place. And that might just be as simple as John Wick saying, you can come out now.

T.C.:

After he kills the fifth guy. After he kills the fifth guy.

Jim:

Sure.

T.C.:

You can come out. I know you're here. And then here comes trench coat. He's been in the movie the whole time. Oh, that guy.

T.C.:

He was the one in the very beginning. He had the first line in the movie. Did you get did you get all that? Are you a librarian? Yeah?

T.C.:

Did you get all that? Matter of fact, I did, mister Wick. Write in his notebook. Sorry. I I'm being a little too quiet into

Jim:

the microwave.

T.C.:

I'm pantomiming stuff he can't see. Now okay. I I like what we have here.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

What does what does John do in the end? Does he just say, this book's mine. You tell the story. You're the one who lives. Leave me alone.

T.C.:

Baba Yaga is dead. Make sure that's how this story ends. And then he just walks off into this a sunset again. I'm not saying we need to

Jim:

Something like yeah.

T.C.:

I I I don't think it's essential for us to sit here and go, well, how do we set this up for the sixth movie? That's sixth movie's problem, not ours.

Jim:

Frankly, that to me is how it feels that they wrote each each of the John Wick movies.

T.C.:

Right. We don't have to sit here and do that. Right? We can just say Yeah. And then John goes

Jim:

I mean, we'd like to do that, but we don't have to.

T.C.:

He just he says, you know, go tell your go tell the story. Just make sure it ends with John Wick is dead. And then he just takes his dog and walks into the sunset. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

Maybe. But it it the I'm I'm thinking about the weird technical aspect. John Wick technically said that like, because technically, the previous guy that was a story while John Wick was alive. Mhmm. And then he then the story we know of how he died, he died.

Jim:

And here, he's telling he's telling the narrator he's telling our our the librarian Mhmm. To change the story. Yeah. It technically. That that that that's that's what I that's what I'm hung up on.

Jim:

If it's a detail I don't need it to get hung up on right

T.C.:

now, that's fine. Is there it can we characterize this guy to want to tell the story this way instead of that way kind of thing. Like, mister Wick, the stories I've been the story I know is that you're dead. Like, that maybe there's a bit of a an honor Fuck. Mump there.

Jim:

I'm liking I'm liking the whole thing where he's hanging out and John Wick returns the tokens, and and his his book is taken away again.

T.C.:

Okay. So librarian

Jim:

Like the librarian can still be around, but then it it he's just not there for that last con confrontation. But then why who would be left alive? If he's the one to be left alive.

T.C.:

Yeah. He needs to be there. Yeah. The idea of that final moment of John walking through the doors, put this back where it belongs. Yes, miss yes, sir.

T.C.:

And then seen okay. The document our librarian character witnesses Yeah.

Jim:

We don't have to have a witness to I I like that final moment of John Wick walking back into the continental Yes.

T.C.:

Yes. I am. Popping

Jim:

the things off.

T.C.:

And I'm I'm embracing that.

Jim:

Yes. So what I was gonna say is we don't have to have the witness there to see that. The witness is the audience. Maybe that's fine.

T.C.:

Right. So

Jim:

he walks in, drops off the tokens, and also the manuscript, the idea being that manuscript, it will go into the grave now.

T.C.:

Instead of him taking the book away from the librarian at the continental?

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. So we we we go back to he the the librarians out on out with these guys. Mhmm.

Jim:

He is the last survivor. He will tell he will tell the story.

T.C.:

Tell the tale.

Jim:

And honestly, I don't think I don't think John Wick should even tell him how to tell it.

T.C.:

Yeah. I get it.

Jim:

Just like you're the one to tell the tale, not that way.

T.C.:

Yes. He the book. He takes the book away, and the and the librarian is left standing there, like, oh, man. Then Mhmm. Fade to black.

T.C.:

The door's open. John walks into the continental, sets the items down on the desk Mhmm. Says, return this to where it belongs, and this. And he puts the book on the on the desk. Yeah.

T.C.:

And then Winston says

Jim:

Right away, sir.

T.C.:

Right away, sir. Rest in

Jim:

rest in peace.

T.C.:

Rest in peace, sir. And then John just walks out. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I can see the visuals of that and, like, the the

Jim:

So we don't get our whole unreliable narrator thing. That that's okay.

T.C.:

I think so. We he still has the moment with with the narrator and says, you you are the one who lives. You tell the story, just not that way. Yeah. You tell it.

T.C.:

That's not it's an oral history.

Jim:

Yeah.

T.C.:

And and if we I I think the this narrator character or librarian character isn't super obviously there the whole time. Just enough. I I don't know how much interact how much interaction do you think he should have with the characters along the way?

Jim:

I think it would be really cool if with each chapter, he moves closer and closer to the forefront.

T.C.:

Yes. Okay. I'm I'm for that. Like, he's there.

Jim:

He's there at the beginning when they're all talking and stuff, but he's in the background.

T.C.:

If or If they say something and he laughs, like he's over in a booth and he laughs, like, we laughing at librarian. Yeah. Just Nothing.

Jim:

I'd love I'd love to see it.

T.C.:

Yeah. Fine. Yeah. I'd love to see it. Yeah.

T.C.:

I love that. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just I would love to see you try. Yeah.

T.C.:

I'll I'll be happy to tell the tell the tale. Yes. Fuck you,

Jim:

word man you're coming with. Yeah.

T.C.:

The hell I am. Well well, no.

Jim:

But like, he wouldn't say that. He'd oh, okay. So then in the graveyard digging scene, he's there in the background. Yes. Yeah.

Jim:

The more involvement

T.C.:

he has, like, getting closer to the end Yeah. A little bit of something this might be a little flavor that's unnecessary, but just that he writes I write every detail. It's it's important that I get every detail down. I make sure I write it because because you know how hard it would be to memorize all the like to remember all this, so I write it all down as fast as I can. And even if someone like grabs the book and looks and like, where the hell is this?

T.C.:

It's shorthand. It's what stenographers use. Who can read this? The right people. Yeah.

T.C.:

But I remember. And then but saying that, like, I write it all down because how the hell would I remember it all? Yeah. So that when John takes the book away and is like, you're just gonna have to remember as much as you can. Mhmm.

T.C.:

It's like, fuck.

Jim:

Damn it. My shorthand.

T.C.:

My shorthand. So one five, six, at least six action sequences in this. A big Oh, to open it. I think at least one of these chapters has to have a whole bunch of, like, minutes.

Jim:

One one of these guys has a gang. Yeah. One maybe it's probably that guy. There's a certain point, like, he's he's going he's going after him, and John misses misses the shot. And he's like, I'm fucking out.

Jim:

And he so he retreats to his fortress Mhmm. With all of his dudes. Right.

T.C.:

And then Sean shows up Yeah. Like and it's not revenge. It's it's self preservation. It's the I'm out.

Jim:

I don't come after I said don't come after me.

T.C.:

Said don't yeah. Like, this is silly. I did I none of this none of this was even vengeance. This is all just to to Yeah. I think this we've created a different motivation.

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

We've we've activated the John Wick machine without

Jim:

Sort of. We I what I like about this we don't we don't have a tacked on ending that sort of suggests the continuation of this exact it's sort of there. But it reminds me of Killer of Killers.

T.C.:

The predator predator kills yes. Oh, yes. So

Jim:

Right. It's it's sort of this we're touching back on this story. We're we're looking at John Wick through a different lens, through someone else's perspective rather than his perspective on this world.

T.C.:

Yes. Cool. Okay. Hopefully hopefully, that's cool. I think it's cool.

T.C.:

Ronnie, do you think it's cool? Answer me. Well, I think I'm gonna call it there then. I think we have something we've we've laid go ahead and think about it for a bit, but I'm gonna start throwing to the ending here, and come for you for five final thoughts here. But I think I'm gonna say we've got enough foundation here that were we to have to actually script this, we could.

T.C.:

We could we could do a first draft at this. Yeah. The thing we're missing is we don't really have a clear sense of these five characters. We did not develop any personalities here. And that's, in the world of John Wick, I think, okay right now.

Jim:

And Well, no. You you do the you you do the traditionals. The tough one, the hot one, the smart one, the stoned one, and

T.C.:

And the and the and the rebellious one. Yeah. I guess that's the tough one. There's a tough one who's like a leader.

Jim:

No. No. Yeah. The tough one's a a leader type.

T.C.:

Yeah. And then the the rebellious one's a a green ranger type. Yeah. Yeah. But Ronnie with an I from Ronnie with the Y Studios.

T.C.:

You gotta let us know how we did. So did we meet your demand today? You can hit us up if you agree or disagree or if you think we missed something, whatever. You listening, same thing. If there's anything we missed here, or you feel like, oh, this is missing this element of John Wickley.

T.C.:

We didn't put a dog in this, but surely we would John would have a dog to his name. Right?

Jim:

He can walk in he can walk into the in the end. He's got this stuff. Dog. With

T.C.:

I suggested that he trains dogs in one point when we were pitching. Oh, did missed that. It's fine. That's Muzzle, the Aaron Eckhart John John Wick movies. He trains police dogs.

Jim:

I I didn't get to watch Muzzle, but you told me all about both of them.

T.C.:

I watched both of them.

Jim:

The the the the conceit, the suspension of disbelief for that movie, the one Yes. Thing they asked the audience is, in a world that hates dogs. Yeah.

T.C.:

Any reality, a dog is killed and people would rise up and riot. But in the muzzle world, who cares? It's just a dog. And the movie hates dogs. One a dog gets blown up by a rocket launcher, like Punisher Warzone style.

T.C.:

That's ridiculous. That's awful. But he was a bad dog. Anyhow, you can message us directly at studiodemandsit.com or on Instagram at studiodemandsit. If you aren't already, you can subscribe to wherever you're listening to your podcast.

T.C.:

And if you feel like giving us a little review, would say no to that. And you know what? You write a really good review. I'll read it on the air. Mhmm.

T.C.:

Yeah. You can also find us on YouTube and TikTok where we occasionally post stuff that's not seen or heard here on this show. And guess what? There's other places we can go. Jim?

Jim:

You can come visit us on Reddit at the subreddit r/studiodemandsit. Do do some Reddit stuff there. You can come to our Discord. Go to our website, which is I keep sub is Substack? Is is it a Substack website, or is it is it just studiodemands.com?

T.C.:

Currently, Studio like, David's doing a A thing's getting

Jim:

switched around, and that that's it's confusing me. I'm confused.

T.C.:

Yeah. So you should look So at go to website

Jim:

in in one of the many arcane ways of finding it, and there will be a link at the top of that page to with a invite to the Discord. Yep. Yep. Where you can also talk about it talk about this stuff and do Discord things.

T.C.:

Yay. Discord things. Alright.

Jim:

Yay. And if

T.C.:

you want even more or if you wanna show some support to us in other ways, we have a Patreon. And for a couple bucks a month, can get episodes early, commercial free. Who needs those pesky commercials? Right? As well as some extended double length episodes.

T.C.:

At this point, we have over a thousand hours of material that you could listen to between our episodes, our entire library of episodes, and our our movie commentary tracks. So you you you wanna listen to us talk? You got options here.

Jim:

Oh my gosh. We'll talk.

T.C.:

Yeah. We'll talk. Oh my god.

Jim:

We have talked for you.

T.C.:

And you can even just go to Patreon and subscribe for free, which will get you access to our suddenly a conversation series, which is often we post when we have something to say about a movie. Are literally walking out the door having just seen or some sort of pop cultural significant topic. A massive thank you to our godfather and producer of this whole network, David Geisler, who congratulations to David as of recording. He's just recently graduated from Columbia University in Chicago. I got to go hang out with him for a couple days in Chicago for his graduation, and he's already the the things this guy has in store for us, for this network, and for for new things to come is just so exciting.

T.C.:

So, you can check out other shows that our network has courtesy of, bottoms of pages where you can click on links or just search for us in your search engines. Jim, any other thoughts on John Wick and the universe of John Wick here? Hooray. Congratulations.

Jim:

You didn't give me an opening to to actually congratulate David. Do it. I did I just hooray. Congratulations, David.

T.C.:

Good. I gave you the opening. Congrats. Congrats. Congrats.

T.C.:

Like like the word graduation.

Jim:

Yeah. That's not how that's spelled. It is no. No new no new no further thoughts at this time. Nope.

Jim:

I I I did start trying to put together something with with your initial pitch, John John Wick John Wick in a little town Right. It really it just ends up being a lot like like, we just watched what was that movie? Bob Odenkirk. Not nobody.

T.C.:

The the drag you to hell you over your dead body. Nope. Nope.

Jim:

He was just in a movie where he plays the sheriff of a

T.C.:

town in Minnesota. Nowhere in Minnesota. Normal Minnesota.

Jim:

Normal Minnesota.

T.C.:

Was called normal. Normal.

Jim:

Yeah. It just it just ends up being normal.

T.C.:

I don't even wanna do this. Bang bang bang bang bang bang. Okay. Well, that's gonna be it for this episode. We'll be back again soon to challenge ourselves with one of your demands.

T.C.:

And maybe, you know, we write a cool movie.

Jim:

Like, what other direction could like, he's gone international. So it's not even like it's a matter of like, John Wick goes Euro trip or something.

T.C.:

He did that. There's the truth be told, I hope they never go into sci fi territory like resurrecting him or time travel or any of that Mhmm. Any of that. You don't get me wrong. I love me some sci fi, but stay I I want John Wick to stay within his lane and that bulletproof suits would be the extent of the magic that is in the series.

Jim:

That lane gets wider and wider.

T.C.:

I guess. Maybe he goes after an a Milan esque character or a Beth De

Jim:

Witt We're gonna gonna turn him into a dark James Bond?

T.C.:

Actually, that'd be a a bad way to do that's a bad pitch is that he gets recruited by the government.

Jim:

Well, I was thinking that would be the like, what's outside what outside of the world of crime would have lots of action, lots of guns, and it would The be

T.C.:

world of law and espionage and military. Military. Yeah. And we can with context clues, John has military training because the way he wears his watch.

Jim:

Oh, sure.

T.C.:

He wears it on the inside of his wrist which is military.

Jim:

Was his training. Most of those assassins, that's they all got their training.

T.C.:

So I I don't like the notion of the government scooping him up and making him some sort of like forcing him to be a spook.

Jim:

No. That's not what I would I'm not even thinking that. Just, like, he would have to fight them. John Wick fights an army. A literal army.

T.C.:

Who wins in a fight? John Wick versus an army.

Jim:

John Wick.

T.C.:

What about a militarized group of A paramilitary? Yeah. We didn't we ended up not using rednecks. John Wick versus rednecks. Yeah.

T.C.:

He just goes region by region, taking out Appalachian mountain men, just some hillbills.

Jim:

Because it really it really is just Dalton. It it really is Roadhouse.

T.C.:

Yeah. The hills have evil eyes. Okay. That's it. That's how the episode ends.

T.C.:

Yep.