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What do you do when the bottom drops out and life breaks in ways you never imagined? Charlie and Jill LeBlanc have walked that road, and through their personal story of loss, they’ve discovered the sustaining power of God's presence. In this podcast, they offer heartfelt conversations, Scripture-based encouragement, and the kind of hope that only comes from experience. Whether you're grieving, struggling, or searching for peace in the middle of chaos, this space is for you.
This is the Finding Hope podcast where Charlie and Jill LeBlanc and we thank you so much for joining us today. We have a very special guest with us here. Oh, you should be here in a minute. This is our longtime friend, Paul Clark. And it is just a privilege to have Paul here with us today. Paul is oh my gosh, he is one of the fathers of the Jesus Movement music.
thing that overtook the world back in the 70s. And we were we were swept up in that as well. We were huge fans. And and so Paul Paul's in town today. So we asked him if he could come and be with us. Thank you so much for joining us. is a joy. I feel very strange not staying here. Normally I sleep in that bedroom, but you got a house. I know. So now it's really a room in the end. It's a blast to be here. And obviously, just seeing you guys reminds me.
of the faithless of God. mean, it's 56 years later. And here we are still talking about Jesus. Here we are. Absolutely. And, know, as you say, God's faithfulness is incredible. We remember seeing you on stage at our church back in the 70s, you with Phil Kage. Yeah. And I'm.
The sheep shed. The sheep shed. I'm still looking for that cassette because Joe did turn it on. I'm going to find it. I like to have that. But but you know, we were just at awe of you and Phil and all that you guys were doing. And what a blessing for us to have come and gotten to know you and Heidi and just what a joy it is to us. A real honor. It's an honor. I those were good. Those are great days. Yeah, they were. I had lots of fire red hair and a big fire red beard.
I remember that. Now it's gone away, but the Lord give it the Lord take it away. Yeah. But it was a fiery time. That's the best part. The Holy Spirit is just being poured out over the face of the earth. Yes. Which is one of the things that I don't want to get sidetracked here because you're going to ask the questions, but I'm constantly reminded of how I'll meet somebody in South Africa. It doesn't know where it is in the globe. And they had the same testimony from 1969, 1970, you know, that I have. And so people, a lot of times they think that the Jesus move started in.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (02:18.936)
Costa Mesa, Calvary, Chavala stuff. No, it was worldwide. It was a grease fire around the whole globe. And I've always been very thankful for that. That it's not about a man or a certain thing. It was the Holy Spirit, the person or the Holy Spirit, which 56 years later is totally the engine that powers us. Absolutely. Still hasn't changed. Absolutely. Dune of this power. Yes. Well, you know, we could talk all day about.
the Jesus movement, the fire of God, the things that God has did in our lives to get us to this place. I we would not be alive today. Not a chance. Not a chance. It's tough enough being alive, going with the Holy Spirit. If it weren't for Jesus, we would be totally toast. And I read a little bit of your testimony before you came today, because I just wanted to refresh it and all the drugs and all the crazy that you went through in the early days and how Jesus just...
Your grandmother that sent you a group of books? She was living in a little log cabin up in Colorado, on Earth had passed with four other guys, band, a couple of girlfriends, and we're all crammed in like little puppies in a box. And every Saturday we go down to this town called Empire. had a PO box there where we were hoping not to see our draft notices because we were all draftable and went down to the grocery store as well. Babe supermarket.
And we would splurge every Saturday with our, you know, saved up coins or whatever, and buy Swanson's beef TV dinners. We didn't have any appliances. We had a fire paint in our front yard of a cab. So on Sundays we would have our Sunday meal and throw them in there and take a big stick, just turn it over until they were black. And we figured, okay, now it's black, so it'll be hot. So that was our food. Yeah, weighed 109 pounds, six foot tall, 26, 34 Levi's. those?
Anyway, yeah, so just my grandma sent me a box of books about Jesus and and she is really powerful because she kind of unloaded the armory on me. The book round on top of screw tape letters or CS Lewis. So you can imagine as I kind of thumbed through the first few pages that the film, whoa, this is like sounds like me spiritual. Right. So and then Peace with God, Billy Graham and Imitation of Christ, Thomas the chemist. I mean, there's just one class. I can't remember. She's Pilgrim's Progress. She's load the box.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (04:43.214)
So, but one of the books was a simple testimony by a guy that was, had survived World War I, said, if you get me out of this, I'll serve you all days of my life. And sure enough, he did write a testimony, which I love to talk about always. But he testified, the vernacular of the book was not hippie talk. was completely not in my step. It wasn't in same gate. But the anointing and the passion, the fervency of his soldier.
in God's army was what really spoke to my heart. So I didn't really have a conversion of, you know, force, virtual laws in the back of my book and Lord Jesus came to my heart for you. It wasn't that way at all. I literally went to bed thinking I want to be a soldier in God's army. I already knew how to be a soldier in the hippie army. You know, I Molotov cocktails and stuff as anti everything. Anti Vietnam, anti everything.
So anti me didn't like me either. So, but yeah. So, um, I just think it's looking back. It's, it's amazing to me that, um, I think, you know, I woke up that first morning and walked out of the front porch and I'd left my brand new Martin out of the front porch, fed the dogs, sat down and I wrote a song called make me a soldier for your army. We talk about prophetic, you know, so it just flowed over from the night before. And I was looking down.
through the woods from our front porch, toward down toward highway 40 and going, man, it's really clear morning today. Yeah. And I'm more, I looked at it just seconds, not my vision. It's my mind, my mind, like what's happening to my mind. You know, it's, it's, feels like something shot back, you know, the sawdust out overnight. So, that was the beginning of a very profitable summer. I was there. We were there May, June, July, August, and in the September I moved back to Kansas city.
And in that period of time, I wrote about 40 songs, 30 or 40 songs. Wow. They're all on my first album, Songstress Saver Volume 1 and most of Volume 2 as well, which were cut just six months apart the following year. In February of 72, I recorded that album in August of 72 for Songstress Saver Volume 2. Wow. So it's, yeah, it's amazing. The beginnings are just amazing. They're so great to think about.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (07:08.098)
to go back and remember, you know, the theme of this podcast is getting through what you never asked for, finding hope. And obviously that was like finding Jesus was finding the ultimate hope. And then that power of the Lord pulled you off of drugs, bam, immediately filled you with the Holy Spirit. And then as your life moved on with recording and record companies and on and on and on, marriage,
children, you know, from what we understand, you ran into a lot of other things that you didn't expect some difficulties that you didn't expect. A lot of obstacles in the way. In fact, this is not a plug, but I've been working off and on as finances allow a sort of a biography, but not really a biography. It's a documentary that I want to break up into 12 five year segments. I got first chapter just my where I was born, that kind of stuff, my parents. But then
Now 55, almost 56 years later. Strange enough, my life falls into five year chapters. So I got born again in 70. 70 through 75 is like Jesus Movement 1.0. know? 76 through 80, hand to plow. You know, it's like, dig in for the next level. People were falling away. I wrote a bunch of songs that had to do with that and address that and also how to build the church. So from 76 to 80, we were establishing campus churches all over the United States. And then,
82, 85, I can go on, but so in this documentary, other than that, if the title I came up with is a line from one of my own songs called Grey Sky of Blue, and it's the second verse, and it says that there's a tumbleweed caught in the fence. It reminds me of my worthless self-defense. I'm waiting for you. And you may not know this, but tumbleweeds because you didn't have them in St. Louis, but we had some in Kansas. And you're driving out to Colorado. You see tumbleweeds blown across the road or Arizona or Utah. I did a lot of research on that.
And tumbleweeds, we see them break off. think they're dead, you know, but as they're tumbling, they're pollinating the average tumbleweed drops 284,000 seeds until it's down to just a stick. But you think about it, you see him rolling across the road. Then what happens to their journey? They get stuck in a fence until what happens until a wind Holy spirit picks them up over the fence and on they go tumbling to the next journey for X, Y number of years until boom, hit another fence.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (09:34.446)
Then you stay there for a season. You don't expect to have that fence. And then one day the Lord will show the fence and you roll on. So I've had 11 of those. I'm kind of nervous right now talking to you. It's 2026. This is the beginning of a new five year season. So let's just hope and make it to the end of this podcast before I can, lightning strikes and the whole set falls down and we're finding ourselves upon a Peter hospital or something. No, I'm Anyway, so.
friend mine was just visiting recently and we did take him to the local hospital. gosh. Let's don't do that. So anyway, yeah. So it's just interesting to me that, you know, I do see us. You are the same. You guys are the same. We're pollinators. I'm a pollinator. But we're pollinators, you know, no, you know, no matter where we go, we want to drop seed. Yes. And that's that's the joy of the last almost 56 years of doing this is that it's to get up in the morning and
be in Crystal River, Florida and be three hour drive or whatever. Here we are sitting down pollinating. This is a podcast. It's a pollinating cast. So so in between the pollinations, though, you said you got stuck in some fences, some fences. Absolutely. You just share one or two of those or whatever you want to help people that maybe they're stuck. Maybe they're going maybe they just lost a loved one. Maybe they they they're, you know, dealing with grief. Maybe they're hitting a hard time or divorce or whatever.
Those are those are all my list. Thanks for mentioning them. was going to share some happy. The ones where you got caught in the fence and how the Lord helped you get through it. You know, that's always helpful. I'll just be a little skipping stone in my mind. I'll try to think of some, uh, you know, like I said, got born again in 1970. My parents were separated. Uh, when I got
to a place at of the summer, felt like the Lord spoke to me and told me to go back to Kansas City and reconcile myself with my parents. I had wrecked their lives. So, but they had wrecked their own lives and were living apart. I went to my father's house, the house I grew up in and 30 seconds it was over. I mean, just hugs and you know, we're, he was my best friend. We did everything that you're growing up. So it didn't take us a heartbeat to reconnect and find forgiveness.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (11:55.694)
And I moved into his house, in fact. But my grandparents, all the 20 minutes away, and it took me three months to get to my mom. And every day, really every day is a very interesting story from this standpoint. Every day in my new family, I've a Christian for what, four or five months. You know, so that first love is just pouring out of me all the time. You know, that first love for Jesus. And and every day, his presence got less because I wasn't obeying him. I was not going in and reconciling my mom.
I saw my mom as the perpetrator of all our problems, you know? And that's a long story of my mom's life before she was Christian and my dad. mean, basically, my dad was a very successful attorney, but an alcoholic and workaholic. My mom was, well, she floated around. She had friends other than my dad. So I grew up in that atmosphere in our house. was chaotic and adultery and alcohol just effervescent everywhere.
to go down and reconcile myself and my mom was just, I couldn't do it. And then one day I just woke up and it was almost like an audible voice. It was like a voice of a father. Today's the day or I'm out of here. That's what it like. talk about the hope that I was all of sudden hopeless. I've had this great walk for the last five months or so and you're going away what? So that required obedience. Then I called my grandparents and said, yeah, I'm coming out for dinner tonight.
She said, great, we have a church meeting we're going to, but you can talk to your mom. was like, hey, don't head large. So I went down there like five o'clock. all, we still really, I love this. It's still a place I love to visit from time to time. It's like one of those cubby hole, you know, like a booth, little nook breakfast area they had with a window, look at the backyard. So there's my grandparents and I got to sit next to my mom, you know, so we're eating our dinner.
I'll send my grandma picks the plates up. got to go, Fred. And they're going at the door church and I immediately going to, Oh, man, just haven't been sleeping well. I think I better go to bed. I I was going to spend the night. So this is like quarter to seven. I hadn't been in bed in quarter seven my whole life. was born on 30 morning. I was born on one 30 morning. That's what time I go to bed. So, uh, but yeah, so I went up, I literally went upstairs into the bedroom and it was fall time is October. So
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (14:17.678)
six o'clock it was getting dark and went laid down that Southeast bedroom, my grandparents house, 4925 Truce food road. And I laid on the bed and I was like, God, what am I gonna do about this? And I, I promise you, this sounds like, you know, an Oprah show now, but I, it's like, I heard footsteps at the door opening footsteps. I didn't have my eyes open. They were shut. And I was just praying. And it's like, somebody comes to come and stood right next to bed, almost like I hear him breathing. And it's just like now.
or this is all over. And I just got up and I walked to the hallway. I started crying. What happened? In the staircase, I looked down and I saw my mom on the couch and I stopped. She looked at me and says, are you okay? I just looked at her and literally, of course I was 20. I jumped over the stairway and bam, in the hallway, just ran and jumped on the couch in her arms and we just cried for hours on end. And it wasn't long after that I led my mom to Christ.
And they led by daddy Christ. And then they got back together and they had 28 years. Amazing. And they were evangelists. Everybody was like, what's up? David Dosser back together throughout witnessing to people right and left and sharing their face. So they had their own journey of, of, um, hopelessness story. So that may be one of my first speed bumps. It was right from the get go. Uh, and then my grandparents, oddly enough, when I did my first record, I moved back to Colorado, uh,
Didn't live with my dad too long, six months. Well, it should say seven months. worked at the Playboy club. There's the next challenge. Hopeless. was hopeless every day eating steak and shrimp and lobster and helping bunnies. my God. Okay. Moving on. Yeah, right. That was actually I led help the Lord use me to lead seven bunnies, a chef and the playmate bunny of the year to Christ. That was pretty, pretty evangelistic time. Yeah. Yeah. That could be a whole podcast itself. Yeah.
But anyway, so, moved back to Colorado. was running a little Christian coffee house called the narrow way and narrow gate, sorry. And every weekend, this guy named Dick Brown, he was an older guy. He was 43 and he would, he would come in the coffee house and Fridays every night and say, you know, these songs, he did have a record because look at the lives every weekend. People get insane, but you, they don't have a way to remember that song. You play it once it's over. You need to a record, you know, I said, well, that costs money. So.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (16:45.71)
One weekend he came in with a 3000 hour check. He says, I want you to take this to Oklahoma city. I've booked the time for you with Larry Benson at Benson sound studios and take your guys and go in there and make a record. So we booked the time and went down and made songs to save volume one, 20 hours of recording and 10 hours of mix down and a thousand units all for 3000. So it was amazing. Uh, but
The very first concert I played at Phipps Auditorium in Denver that had those albums available. I told my friend Bill Spirits said, Hey, bring a box of 50 years. 3000 kids here tonight. was young life statewide young life thing. Said, you know, never know. I get rid of a couple dozen, you know, they're $5 a piece. That seemed like I'm out of money, but anyway, so the LPs, it was a union hall. This is, I'm getting distracted here. I know I burned the clock up on this bit.
Union Halls, you could walk to the edge of the door and then they carry your gear and set it all up and stuff. So, you know, young life, God bless them. But it was pretty shallow. You know, it wasn't like a Holy Spirit repentance convention. But I think I was staying in side stage, getting ready to be introduced. They were singing Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow. It's like, you know, these happy kind of songs. And I had different message in my heart. I had a, you know, very powerful fire, fireball, you know.
kind of person, long red hair, big red beard, kind of a Moses coming out with a D 41 Martin, Neil Young on fire for Jesus. And, um, but at the end of my singing, literally the Holy spirit fell on the auditorium and, uh, people were just coming up and get saved, prayed for deliverance in filling the Holy spirit. I mean, just went on for hours and, uh, until finally the Janet, the one, the floor guys for the whole said, got, you gotta get out here in 30 minutes, 12 o'clock is cut off.
So I had to write, move out into the alley, you know, cause we got to get out of here. So we'll keep praying out in the snow outside, but a long story short, uh, when we were leaving, I stuck my foot in the door. said, Bill, no, go get the records in the foyer, you know, the hallway. He goes, I got them, bro. I said, where are these? They're all gone. I you sold all 50. It was no, he sold 500 and we got a pillowcase full of $2,500. I went over one through the morning and knock, knock, knock, knock on Dick Brown's door. said,
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (19:07.096)
Here's the first 2500. I told him I would take the money if I could pay him back. He didn't want the money back. He wanted me to roll it over, but I dumped it all in his kitchen counter. So there you go. So it all kind of went from there. But back to my grandparents real quick, I went back to Kansas City for Christmas and I told my grandparents, know, they wouldn't believe it, but I sold those records and I'm selling more. They're going out. We're selling thousands of them. The Jesus movement was exploding. so she was.
72. Yeah. So it was recorded in 71 came out nationally in 70. was selling them locally in Denver in 71, but 72 was released nationally by a distribution company and, um, word records. had a jubilation group is my ideal head with them. Uh, they just read my little seed records label. Anyway, long story short, um, my grandma was making her German potato pancakes and she said, well, how much that costs? I said $3,000 and she says, okay.
So she keeps making them and talk to my grandpa. I'm eating and next thing I know, she sits down and slides a piece of paper. I turn over a $3,000 check. said, grandma, he says, go make another record now quick. I said, wait, wait, she was a literary agent. She was deaf. She's lost her hearing in that pandemic in 1916, but she was an English. mean, she, she put the love words in me. grew up in a word rich family and dad was attorney.
But my grandma had a game with me. If I could put a three syllable word in context in a sentence, I got a nickel four syllable word. This I'm talking five years old. Got a dime, which was a mountain of money and five syllables a quarter. So fast forward into, you know, learning to use words and learning to read and reading poetry and stuff like that. So she wanted him. She said, if you wait too long.
you'll be a one hit wonder because people will move on when they get done listening to that record. will be no, no, it will follow up. It's like, Oh, this is somebody else. So if you have a follow up right away. So it's kind of funny cause I named my first job a song. what's the title for volume two songs to say volume two. So it made sense. But so those were some of the beginning, you know, the push and the pull of, you know, winning and losing of coming out of the chute, not just in my family.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (21:30.424)
But then also just, people in my life during the Jesus movement, was amazing. there were some tragedies. In fact, I'll just call some of the first tragedies people that I was shoulder shoulder with his soldiers in the army and they fell away. Now that's hopelessness. That is hopeless to see, to see a life delivered off heroin and all the stuff we were doing and to walk to the Lord three, four years, be teaching the word of God, being leaders.
stuff like that. And then next thing you know, they're gone. I don't believe in Jesus anymore. So that's, that's maybe a tragedy that it's not like losing a child, but it's one of the first things that I remember being tragic. Yeah. Just because I was planning churches all over. I had 17 campus churches, my friends, I were planting them. I'd go back and the guy was leading to God, you know, just following me from the Lord like what in the world happened. So that was tragic to me, which propelled me into Jesus movement 2.0, hand to the plow. You know, you got to
Put your hand up and not look back. And we can say only by the grace of God have we had the ability to have we fallen many times. Yeah. Falling down and got some good scabs and hit the guard rails and stuff. But, by God's grace, we've continued to keep our hands to the point. There's no plan B. Here's the plan. A is put your hands on there and don't let go. You know, so hang on tight. So that was, that was one of the first ones that would be one you wouldn't think of as being a tragedy. But to me it was.
tragic to see people walk away from Christ, their salvation. To lose a child or lose a parent is tough, but to lose salvation, hold on now. It's a whole other conversation. know, that reminds me Paul, just real quick. Yeah, no, you talk for a while. When we were when we were Jesus in the Jesus movement at the beginning at this incredible church in St. Louis, wasn't long. there for a few years. And then all of a sudden the pastor had a fall, fallen out.
And I was young and I was just like, how can this happen? I was so disillusioned and I just wanted to run away from it all. So I can't trust anybody. That's right. If the pastor messed up, you know, I'm like, and so it really, really hurt me. And so I can relate to that, you know, because I was just like disillusioned. Which once again is bringing us back to spiritual warfare. You know, the people out front get shot, you know. Yeah. Bob is out front. He gets shot. You right. Picked off. Satan has a.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (23:56.814)
divisive plan going all the time to try to take us out. He does. I think a lot of the body of Christ is not aware of that. I know that we talk about it on our podcast, some because when we lost our son, the pain of the loss, the pain of the faith, everything. But then we realized that the enemy was not just was trying to destroy us in the midst of that. We had to be aware, like you said, of spiritual warfare in the middle of all this.
three pronged fork is steel kill destroy. So with the emphasis on destroy. So if he can get your faith, he's got everything. If he can't get to you, he'll start getting to the ones around you like your son or something like that. just the losses it will, it grabs you by the shirt collar. You you don't know what happened. You can't breathe. You know, I could, I could bounce around with some of my own personal testimony of, well, I'll tell a really painful one.
Uh, you know, was married in 1972 to a girl. grew up 10 houses apart from, uh, we got married in 72, beautiful woman, Sharon Clark. And, um, you know, we went through every end of the other beforehand drugs and stuff. Uh, I remember this may be too graphic, but I'm going to be just transparent. I remember I got morning in that little cabin. She was working at the YMCA camp in SS park and she would hitchhike over Trowbridge road in the backside of.
Highway 40 coming down to our little cabin. And I'd hitchhike back with her or sometimes vice versa. I'd go up there. But she worked in the bakery. So I would get a big sack of day old bread that she'd bring down. That's we were living on the stuff from the YMC camp. But so, you know, we we come to everybody, but it was a crowded house, little cabin. So before we were Christians, we had a normal hippie sexual lifestyle, you know, that. So she comes down. She wasn't a believer. I was freshly born again, maybe two weeks.
And we went to our little pup tent out in the woods out there and, you know, snuggle up our sleeping bag and just about ready to start having sex. And all of sudden I felt very convicted and I stopped and I said, I don't know how to say this, but I don't think we're supposed to be doing this. You it's just, I feel the same way. So I let her to Lord that weekend. mean, the Lord used me to Christ. That's a long story. I mean, I got healed my knee. It's a long story, but take up your whole podcast. but anyway, um,
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (26:20.034)
Two of the guys in the band saw my knee healed. They became Christians all the same night. Sharon and two guys all got saved that night. anyway, but going back to that, just thinking that so we had this journey. We traveled with the man, Derek Prince, a very powerful Bible teacher. He was my mentor. Controversial to some people, but not to me. I wish Derek would have been alive during YouTube days because then he could he could have defended himself. And I heard these crazy stories. yeah. He passes out waste baskets, coffee, redeeming and you know, that never happened.
I heard rumors about it all the time. I'd love to sit at a table and some people want to bash them. Maybe I let them talk for like five or 10 minutes. go time out. I know the guy really well. In fact, I've been living in his house and that's all lie. And yeah. So, but anyway, so, you know, we had the trip, the privilege of traveling with he and Lydia. We were in their house and I thought Lydia passed away. so I have a rich history of, I was also singing at Calvary chapels all over.
I started a rich history of the word and the foundation, the local pastors, Bob or, whatever, uh, you can't see, but it's a Marie Grumman. He's kind of just pillars of the faith. They built us all up, you know, but then some of them got, like you say, got picked off. So my life rolls along for, you know, the seventies and the eighties and eighties seven, I got out of the Christian music industry and I said, was going to stay home, build a new house and be home at, you know, four 30 every night.
help my kids with the homework, dinner at six, we're going to be a family, know, so this, I mean, I was playing for those first 17 years, I think it was, I was playing 150, sometimes two nights a year. So we were just dragging my family over the world and doing stuff. But anyway, so 87 to 90 was kind of a rebuilding time, 85 to 90 I should say. And then 1990, I went on staff at the church I helped plant, which was a whole new chapter. You know, I never had a paycheck in my life.
And all of sudden I'm boxed in 40 out of 52 weeks, I got to be on stage. So the next tragedy was sort of developing. We were looking for a way to be effective in our community. This church, Hartland Community Church, which is still going now, it's still flourishing church in Olathe, Kansas now. it was a model that was called the seeker model or, you now that's what became later. We didn't call it that when we started it, but we had a burden for reaching lost people. so.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (28:48.854)
that model became really popular. And so I found myself going to churches that were starting up with that. That's another tragedy. So I'm talking off different tragedies here. The average losing your child or losing whatever. I'm going to tell a couple of those later, but I began to see that the back door or church, although we were exploding upfront, you know, one service, then two service and Saturday night service. And when it was multiplying fast, you know, we were, my band was the house band. So
the music was stellar. We had 25 professional actors at our church. Our skits were Saturday Night Live. I I even built a Saturday Night Live set with a big rotating fan and then we had great lights and gels. People were rolling to the theater, so we were using the power of theater and music to draw people in. But we stopped making disciples. Actually, that church never started making disciples. We'd have a couple thousand people over the weekends, so to speak, and then Tuesday night, you know,
midweek meeting be like 30 people, you know, those are the people really want to grow. Right. So I started kind of raising my voice and saying, hey, we're not making disciples, you know, I don't think this is happening model, you know, and that model took off. mean, I was there helped invent the plastic around the drum box and in-ear monitors when it first coming out. I had a contract at EU. And so here's my next tragedy that you may not want to hear about. But the sign up front said Heartland Community Church.
But one day I'm sitting out in the auditorium, listen, do the little mix of the band, we're getting ready to do the sound check before the service started. I looked up a stage and I'm like, okay, he's standing over there. He's 15 feet away. He's 20 feet away. He's 25 feet away. He's drummers in a box back there in a plastic box. If I came in here as a Christian, this speaks nothing of community. This is a, this is a lie. This is false advertising. And, um, I, you know, made my point and next thing I was looking for new employment.
Because that model the model was more important than than the fruit, know, so I just saw that we Have to keep making disciples. We have to keep I'm a product of that your part of that, know So the next tragedy and this is not a casting a rock at that church, you know They ride their ship and they things move on but for me personally and what I saw going on, you know was you know a big loss because
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (31:10.478)
The church wasn't powerful anymore. It was an entity into itself. And what we had today is the fruit of that. The church is a franchise corporation. You know, it's just copy paste, copy paste, copy paste. I go to a place and see something. Oh, that's good. Well, they just copy it go back to the church and copy it. And, know, there's nothing more cheesy than a cover band that can't play the songs right. Yeah. And that's kind of what happens. A lot of churches, they see something that they like, they deem valuable and successful and they go back and try to
We produce it. If you're not anointed to do that or get to do that, it just becomes a bad cover band. And we have so much of that in our church dome world today. You know, it's just a lot of very active, very busy cover bands. And that's to me, another tragedy, know, a different kind of hope, but let's get into what happened to that, that to get a little more personal, uh, besides just the vocational part of it. So in the midst of all that, uh, the next, you know, uh, when I lost that employment, so that was a loss.
I mean, I literally, they sent me a fax to my friend's house in Sedona and said, well, they, won't give me a backup for a second. They wanted me there at 52, 50 out of 52 weeks, like everybody else. I was only there 40. So I would leave on a Sunday church in peel West place Sunday night somewhere in Arizona, California, and then be out the whole next 11 days, come back on Saturday and be back on stage. I'd only missed one Sunday, but I was gone 13 days.
So they wanted me because people were calling all the time, you know, as Paul, there was weekend, you they didn't like that. So they were kind of pushed me into giving me a big raise and car and insurance for family. Long story short, they sent me a fax and said, you know, sign this new contract or be terminated. And I got my friend's magic marker, but you can't terminate me. I quit. I stuck in the fax machine. Anyway, it was it was a big loss. My family's witness the whole thing is like going through the windshield. And I sat around for about two months.
depressed. They didn't want to do anything. finally three buses pull in front of my house from St. Louis from run Tucker search, crazy world outreach back then. And they're going to a little thing called promise keepers at Arrah stadium. Well, I'd done chapel services for 20 years for the chiefs and the Royals. So I said, I don't want to go out there, you know, and then they kept pushing me. They said, no, you got to come in and get out of the house. You need to get back in the flow. And I thought, oh, my Harley's out there. I left it out till last November.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (33:36.27)
So I don't know. I ride with them. So I literally rode in the bus out there to only to satisfy them and to go out there and get my Harley Davidson ride home. I wasn't going to stay for the event. It's parked in D tunnel. So from November, and this is now April, yeah, it's Roger Easter. And so here comes, here comes the pancake flip. Uh, I go out there and the place is already full. It's like 10 till six, 90,000 people, know, we love Jesus. You know, all this is going on.
And I'm following the guys behind the screen. We're not going to even see the stage. Now we're only going to be able to jumbo tron. I was like, what a bummer evening for these guys. Cause I was leaving. So they got part way up there and I thought, okay, I'm turning around, getting out of here. I turn around, Stan Inacott right in my face from Mary. Hey man. Long story short, I ended up filling in for a guy that weekend singing on stage with the promise keepers team. I mean, my brother couldn't find me. We're bogging. Also I'm on the screen with the promise you're a baseball hat on the head. You know, so.
Then they came to my house. had a barbecue and Saturday night and next thing you Monday morning, I got a phone call. Do you want to be on the team? know, Tommy Walker and you know, Finn Johnson, all these guys had recorded played with it. So that, that was a new door opening up. 1995 went to work for promise keepers for the next five years. But in the midst of that, uh, here I was going out every Thursday night, flying out to major city, having a pastor's, you know, breakfast, uh,
In the morning, 2000 pastors, then go and setting up the venue, big stadium, a hundred, a thousand people, whatever. And all day Saturday. And then I would stay over because they were big cities. I would do a church in the morning, mega church, two or three service, wherever. then some church saying, right. And fly home Monday. So it was a big package weekend for me. I loved it. It was a great, great lifestyle, but unknowns to me during this whole time period, my wife, my lovely wife that I started with a while ago.
I was telling you about 10 houses apart. This would be a tragedy that you wouldn't want to tell, but I'm going to tell them. I didn't know it, but, uh, my wife, uh, which she had a lot of health problems way back to 74. She got a disease called polychondritis that ate a little carcinogen in her nose in her last trimester pregnancy. Yeah. She had an infection yet. Went to her brain. She had so many surgeries in her brain. I can't remember. She died talking about dying. She died twice in my car and once in our house that she
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (35:59.439)
miraculously made it through in coma for 23 days, one time, 13 days, never time tragedy stuff. So from 74, the last trimester of pregnancy with Joanna, our oldest up until the nineties now, she was just battling, you know, having surgeries and all the time. Well, unbeknownst to me, I leave town on Thursday night, Friday night. The kids are now in high school age. They're going out with the midnight curfew. They leave and Sharon busts her heart and self-medicated. She just take a fifth of vodka and just chug a lug down. went.
Knock her out cold, just time out button, you know? So she wasn't like an everyday, yeah, like that. This was just a pain management program that she, she chose, you know, and, this went on for almost 10 years before I knew. And, uh, I literally got a phone call from my son. We're at the hospital with mom. What's going on? You know, I thought she had another asthma attack or something and said, no, she, we found her passed out in the bed, empty bottle of vodka, yada yada. And that started a whole new.
chapter of warfare that we were all in trying to help her. She went away for treatment and never came back. You know, so for a couple of years. Yeah. So I went from singing to a hundred thousand every weekend to being a single father and, uh, trying to figure out what was going on with Sharon and, and, uh, things went bad on her to give the details. I played my own part. Trust me. We could open the pandora's box. I have this, you know,
She, I was married to my ministry. That's, that's the reality. You know, I she was a great companion and a great woman, but you know, it was all about me. Yeah. So anyway, so this whole alcohol thing, we all start going to AA together and I'm going to Al-Anon and yada yada, but she moved back to Maryland. She couldn't stay sober. She moved back to Maryland to her sister's house and never came back. yeah, got served like three or four times. One time in hotel room, Jerusalem, Mr. Clark had made a mail.
Looked down Johnson County court, district court number 10. So it lasted separation, you know, for a couple of years. And eventually we went there for nine hour hearing and I got divorced. It was terrible. It was a loss. Huge loss. Sharon since passed away, gone out with the Lord just four years ago last, last month. And we remained, after that divorce, was about a seven or eight year period. Things didn't go well. And then she really was kicked off the island by my kids and everything. We didn't know where she was.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (38:22.854)
rehab center in Arizona, California, which she was just all over the road. And I kind of keep in touch with her, but happy to say that in the mid 15 to 2016 somewhere in there, she called for rehab place up in Michigan and said, I want to come home. want to come home. Nobody wanted to come home. I finally said, okay, you got to move my house with me for 30 days before you go to your own apartment, your own condo, see if you can handle it. It'd be sober, you know? So it's quite a role change.
She was amazing cooking chef. She moves my house like the second or third night, you know, she's sitting in chair, petting her cat and I'm making dinner, cooking salmon. I remember distinctly, but, I just finally just ended up just dating Heidi. You know, we were on our own journey, but, I remember looking at Sharon saying, do you think it's possible that the Lord's going to do a Dave and Don's Clark on us? Like my parents story that maybe end around that we're going to, we're going to get slam dunked and sort of like.
back into marriage, you know, I said, do you think it's possible that, you know, the Lord's got that in mind here you are in my house and just going to be a miracle. didn't feel romance or love for it anyway, but just wanted to help her as her ex husband and her friend. We're still friends. can't break that bond. You know, it's impossible. So anyway, I asked her the question, do you think this is going to happen? says, I knew you were going to ask me this, but she says, I have no desire.
to be married again, because it's too much energy. don't have that. My health is not strong enough to handle that. And besides, look at you. You're still going like a 21 year old kid with your hair on fire. And I would just be an anchor behind your boat. So, um, guess Jesus at the door knocking. Yeah. Long story short, uh, we did not reconcile. We had her blessing for me to get remarried in 2021.
But, uh, you know, she's gone on with the Lord and I miss her. still miss her. You know, so that's a loss. When she, when my kids call me and told me she passed away, they found her in bed at our condo that I had helped finish and fix up for her and got just got her life together. Uh, you know, the Lord called her home. So that gutted me, you know, it really did still gets me. Yeah. So, know, that's, beautiful for you to say that because, you know, you're remarried, you have a wonderful wife and, and yet, you know, people don't understand how.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (40:44.994)
you can get remarried and then still have a love and appreciation for your former wife. And some people feel guilty about that. But it's the right thing because he was a part of your On the right day when the sun's the right angle, you can look at the whole situation in different light. One of my favorite verses, this may be a verse that might bring some hope to your listeners. The secret things belong to Lord God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children.
So there's mysteries. Marriage is a mystery. It literally says that in the scriptures. I speak to this mystery of, know, of course we know with Christ, the bride of Christ and, but you know, in our own, your covenant, your guys' covenant, how long you been married? 50? What? 47. Okay. 48. Yeah. Look at you kids. Wasn't one of my songs sing at your wedding? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. think it was. I remember right now.
Anyway, so yeah, I'm the hill together. Yeah, it was. I remember the Jeff. No, he no, he was just a bump in the log. He got married. It's right. He patched. Well, he was one of the shenanigan players back then. So yeah. So, you know, we just see it's there's a there's a mystery. The things you go through, you know, there's lots of successes and lots of wonderful, wonderful memories. I not too long ago transferred all my old.
eight millimeter tapes and VHS in the digital format. Yeah. Put them all into online thing. That kids get a password and go on. They can watch all these, you know, they, they bother me back then. I've always been a photographer and always loved video. And, back then it perturbed my family that I'd stopped. People gotta stop taking pictures. Dad, you want to get in the moment. You know, we're, said, no, go stop taking a picture. My son just called her and I says, dad, where's the video of us hitting golf balls in the grand kingdom? I said, well, I'll send you the link right now. I mean, he was like blown away. goes, man, this is so cool.
You know, so, you know, now they love the old videos, you know, can document it. so what looks like tragedies back then or conflict became beautiful things to celebrate. But that's, that's one of the things that it was a big loss. How many losses you want me to share? I got a lot of, I got a lot of. It's incredible. I mean, that you're, you know, you keep pressing on, you know, we read that scripture. It's one of my favorites. says, you know,
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (43:03.63)
forgetting the things that are behind, pressing on to the things that are before, I press on that I may lay hold of that for which Christ uses this laid hold of me. You know, that's of my favorite scriptures. In fact, our first album was Keep Pressing On. But we didn't realize when we were writing this, Jesus, that Paul's in prison, you know, in chains and beaten when he said we have to keep pressing on. And that's reminding me of your life, Paul, because you've hit so many difficult things.
And you haven't even gone through half of them yet, but I mean, I know that even just in the last five or six years, you almost died. did that twice. 2019 November 23rd and KU med, I call it KU dead. Yeah. Yeah. I went in for a stent procedure. I'm a stent pit, heart and had the big talk, even pray to our doctor. I don't forget about the lot of cane. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that morning, I think we never found it for sure, but like two of the first seven people died or something like that.
So by the time they got to me, they were kind of off their game. The guy just shoots two milliliters of a lot of cane in my arm for the IV, not even for the surgery. And 10 toes up, instantly code blue, know, anaphylactic reaction. And while he's paling my heart, he's putting the second stent in my leg to push the first stent all the way up to my heart and use a lot of cane for that. Well, that's a muscle. So 30 minutes later, all of sudden they've pulled me back from this, you know, experience. I they got me going again, then boom. And Heidi was there and my daughter was there later.
You know, they saw this second, you know, code blue and a flashing reaction. So he, was in the hospital off and on for four months trying to learn to walk again. My goal was like walked to the kitchen and walked in the driveway and then walked my neighbor's house. I was four months later, so I couldn't play my guitar. I couldn't do anything. I was disabled, you know, just, so that was, that was not a pleasant experience. And then Heidi talked me into.
leaving the city, get out in the country and found a house down in Herman, Missouri. 1848 stone and log cabin we live in, old winery, it's on a lake and it's a blessing. I'm gonna back up to something. I don't know how much time we got. I'm looking at your old self timer there, but I wanna tell another vulnerable story that it's a loss. And hopefully it will prevent some out there from having this loss. So in between getting divorced in 2000,
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (45:29.166)
one, I guess was final or two, maybe. Yeah, 20. Yeah, it's a 20. I was single for 20 years, you know, officially 2001. I think we was it was official 2001 and 2002 her lawyer, after 88 days before the 90 kill up period came back with me with a bunch of need for more money for this and that and everything. It was it was totally ridiculous. Anyway, long story short, you know, I just
Like I said, I finished the course being a single parent with Jeremy, got him up to college in Wyoming and moved to California, lived with Skip Landon, Hyatt's for a few months and was just trying to get my sea legs back. What am I going to do? And so what do you do? You get remarried to your ministry again full time. You don't have home responsibility. So I kept my house in Kansas City, but I was all over. I I was producing records in Jerusalem for the Seagulls and whatever. I was all over the map, over the globe, just pouring myself into ministry.
And, know, they go along and, know, I met Heidi in 2006, the Alive Festival. And, uh, you know, we started dating in 2009 or 10, we broke up and then we got back together again, long distance dating to a Dutch woman. That's, that's not, that's not advice I give anybody. So, but in meantime, there was a period where, uh, she was disappointed in what was going on and she walked away and she had every right to kind of walk away. Uh, I wasn't committing, you know,
double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. I had a conflict in my own family and house that was, they were kind of kicking Heidi to the curb. There was another girl that I'd been dating and can't see that everybody knew and loved. And you know, my mom was pushing for her. She'd been at Bible study for 20 years. So I had this trying to spin all the place and keep everybody happy. And, uh, and eventually Heidi pulled the plug on me and, um, that got my attention. talk to her for a whole year. Uh, but during that time,
The double mindedness kept growing. thought, okay, let me do higher. And for any single guys out there, we're in that place and you're in the ministry and you're now in your fifties or sixties. But, um, you know, I got myself boxed into a situation that, um, here I was at factors, 2017. got flu B virus. Nobody talks about that one. That was a big killer. It was actually some ways bigger than the pandemic. was a real flu.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (47:53.902)
Found myself, uh, my wife, Sharon found me and actually Heidi and her were talking. I haven't talked to Paul and she came over to house. I've been out for six days in my bed, but in the hospital, quarantined with flu B virus. And I got a phone call from a friend of mine and, um, he met him. actually came down to our vacation place down here that remember my friend that a couple of years ago, he called me from his church service and said, Paul, they were praying for you, you know, and at Boston accent, but, um, long story short,
The Lord chastised me.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (48:36.726)
will always be his children. As I'm in conversation with Melody Green, we talked for a couple hours and she said, it's amazing, you've been walking the Lord for 47 years, you're still his child, and you're still his son. He disciplines those, and he loves. And I was being chastised by the Lord, my friend, people think of Psalm 23 as being the comfort psalm, but he maketh them, he liked them. Could be a different emphasis than the word maketh, the way it's said.
He maketh me, he maketh me. So, you know, he put me down. He, the Lord put him down and punched me in the nose through Eric Clapton's biography. Eric Clapton was sharing his testimony of going into a place up in Minnesota. It's very famous Hazel team or what it's called. And he said, he, he basically, I'll say at a time he talked about self protection and how he got so good at self protection that he believed all his own lies.
And I read that it was like, you know, pastor clapped and just hit me in the face. Yeah. And I thought it's like you guys just like the blinds went up when you when you're blind to the things that blindness people don't need stuff like this before. Oh, yeah. Okay. Whatever. no, I was just, you know, hell bent on doing what I thought was right, know, right. And juggling trying to decide who I'm going to marry, you know, and just went on and on.
All I was doing was protecting myself, you know, and I didn't want to hurt her and when her Heidi. So I just just push pull going all the time. And all I was doing was, like I say, the Lord revealed the spirit of self-protection. know, we can't as Christians, we can't be possessed by demons, but we can be oppressed and afflicted. Sure. But there was a spirit, a spirit, I'm serious, of self-protection that was many. Here's a way to tell if it's your flesh or if it's a spirit.
if it's manipulating and dictating and like witchcraft, know, just holding a stronghold, no matter how hard I try to make the decision, I could not make it. And that day the blinds went up. I came against that spirit of self-protection and it was, it was, I can't even describe what happened. It was like getting born again. the biggest thing was I thought, how did I not see this? know? So this was a loss of a good kind because I,
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (51:00.098)
got rid of that spirit and learn, learn how to work against that. You know, it was the enemy of my soul. So, this is a good loss, but tragic loss too. Cause I hurt people on the way, you know, by being indecisive. In Derek Prince used to say indecision is a decision. And, so maybe that's not a loss. It would be like losing a son.
but it was a loss of something that had manipulated my life since I was a child. So it's going back to my broken home. What I saw displayed to my parents, I built a little sub protection package around me that do all my drug careers, a teenager and stuff like that. kept that, that system was a very well oiled machine. And when I got born again, I didn't rely on that or rely on Jesus, but it was back here.
Just a seed ready to be watered. And when the right thing came along, getting divorced and you know, feeling lonely out on the road, wherever next, you know, you're looking for comfort and watering, you know, seeds to free yourself to be to defend yourself, to keep yourself afloat and keep going. Yeah. And I used to, I used to call, um, abandonment rejection. Uh, they were like junkyard dogs. They're always nipping at my heel. It's almost catching me. I just get the fence and I get over the fence and they'd be left behind.
So they chased me down. So I know that doesn't maybe hit on the sweet spot of your, the theme of your podcast, but it's you don't know who's listening and maybe somebody is going through the loss of themself. I've been a Christian for 47 years. I'd sit on stage before a million people in Washington, DC. I've sung to one person before I've sung. I've sold hundreds of thousands of records, whatever all that stuff. But I was alone. God, God put me down.
I was just me and him. Okay, shoot out and you don't want to take a shoot out against the guy with the fastest gun in the West. And like I say, it was a loss of my self identity. My own identity was wrapped up in all that stuff. And how could I be a minister for 47 years? You have led thousands of people to Christ river. And then all of a be in this quandary, you know, so that was a death that I was the first person to put the spike in.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (53:14.83)
great joy and sort of great sorrow too though, because like I say, I had so much of my identity wrapped up in that person. They had to learn how to let God rebuild a new person. well, you know, I think that's very, very powerful and very relevant because we minister to a lot of widows and widowers. Absolutely. And they, so many of them have been wrapped up with their husband or their wife and their whole identity. have a dear friend.
here in, in, in, in our area that just lost his wife, 65 years old, cancer, breast cancer, two and a half year battle. And, know, he's, he's wonderful. He's a wonderful guy. We had dinner with him the other night, but he's, you know, trying to find his footing because his identity was always, it'd be like Charlie and Jill, you know, you've always said, I don't even know Charlie. don't know. I know Charlie and Jill one word on my phone even called Charlie Joel.
I have two numbers in there, but I have an O71 is Joe. Is Charlie and Joe, you guys are one word. And that's that's the tragedy of, know, like, you know, if we were to lose one of each other, it's like, whoa, who am I? What am I? You know, and this dear friend of ours and many of our friends who have lost their husbands. I mean, it's just so hard. They don't know who they are. They don't know what to do. They don't know. They've got all of sudden paid.
bills, they've got to deal with with important decisions in their life and that they never had to before, you know, and so, boy, this is it's very relevant. Here's a little word that might speak to people. You know, says be anxious for nothing. And the Greek word is miram now. It's actually making two Greek words to make that word. But it means to tear. You know, if if you have a perforated line or, you know, a razor knife, you can cut it and kind of put it back together. But
when there's a tearing anxiety as a tearing, you can't put it back together. It doesn't quite fit right, you know? So if you're listening today and are watching us today, I'm just gonna follow your lead here for a second. I think, yeah, and if you've lost a mate, you your friends you were talking about, you lost a parent, you lost a child, you know, whatever your loss may be, you know, it's possible to have lost a child that's still living.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (55:37.934)
I feel like that way. My oldest son, he's a walking dead man. You know, I love my crazy, but I'm not connected to him. Like I wasn't one time. So it's a loss. But I'm going to focus on this word, mirror, mirror anxiety, know, because anxiety is the opposite of faith. It's the opposite of security. If you want to call it that. And we have peace as it goes on through that passage. It talks about, know, making supplication and you know, the things, but seeing a song in our hearts and
But I want to speak to the person out there today that might be in that mirror now that anxiety is just feeling like their life's just got shredded. You've lost a mate. You lost whatever your whatever your loss is. I want you to know that I have a song called I the storm. There's peace in the eye of the storm. There's peace in Jesus. I have a song that I recorded in 2010 that my all my music recording friends, including Phil Kegge, who's
going to catch up with me next week from his house. know he's going to have it all spooled up ready to go. It's a song I wrote called Small Sails on High Seas. It's from a trip I took to Israel and then all around the whole footsteps of Paul all the way to the Mamertine prison in Rome. But the book was about, in fact, it's the book I was writing by Matt Heidi. Everyone, no one's exempt from loss. No one. I don't care if you have millions of dollars, if you're broke, I don't care what your position is in life.
No one is exempt from loss. So it's not a matter of if, but when, if you want to read acts 27, that's what I took as my, my, uh, canvas for this book, uh, in the song I wrote called small sales on high seas. But as long as short of it is in a storm, if you have your sales up all the way, you're going to get capsized. If you pull your sales down all the way to avoid that, you're going to get tossed to and fro and you have no direction. But if you ever go on a sailboat,
You may don't want to be a sailor to know this, but look up at that main sail. You see all these old talons that are dotted all over the main sail on the front, you have whatever. But a good sailor who's back there, he's reading the wind by those talons. You know, we have it. It's a telltale sign. You know that saying? This is where it comes from. It's a tale. Those are telltales. So if you're in this situation today, don't look at the wind and don't look at the storm that's coming at you.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (57:57.87)
Learn to let the Holy Spirit train your senses. That's what Scripture says. To look up at those little plastic talons, because the way they're beating around, that's showing you the direction where the wind's coming from, which is, what? The storm. The very thing that's coming at you, that wants to devour you and wants evil for you. Learn to tack right into that thing in the name of Jesus and watch the victory come to you. I can just say, he will see you through. He will take...
the very heart of that storm and turn it into a fruitful. And that's what it's all about. We are to bear fruit. You know, it's not just that we survive all these terms and losses, you know, in the end, we're still supposed to bear fruit. Jesus said, John abide my song abide. You know, I know you play it, you know, John chapter 15 fruit, more fruit, much fruit. And after 55 years and years as well.
I hope there's a lot of low hanging fruit hanging on me that people can see Jesus and it's easy access to get from my losses and from my successes that they can be inspired to want to bear fruit themselves. So I would just say to you as a listener today, you know, just don't be discouraged and know that from this, you're going to bear fruit. Yes. Not for your life, not for you. made it through for me. Not that self-protection thing, but you're going to bear fruit for Jesus. Your life will your life will have a
a color to it, a gleaning to it that will be something you can't manufacture in the flesh. And let me just end with this. We are laboring for eternal things. I hope you're laboring for eternal things. All the things I mentioned in that story I told about myself, I was laboring for myself. And self is just flesh. Flesh is not eternal. It's reward is instant.
You know, you have the opportunity as a believer in Jesus to bear fruit that has eternal value, eternal. It's worth eternity. And we are laboring. It's easy to be 74 years old and talk about eternity because it's a lot closer. I was 20, but it's still true. We not only have to labor in the spirit, but the truth is that we are in a season right now.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (01:00:18.606)
If you're in the flesh, you're going to get run over. mean, just even look at countries even who thought in England. I mean, yeah, you know, when a salt loses its savor, you'll be trampled on to feed them in. So just know that there's no future to get out of your hopelessness. You can't fill your life with anything to try to soothe the pain other than the power of the Holy Spirit and the eternal purposes.
It says in Cleese, God is said eternity in the heart of man. You may not know what comes after him. I love that passage because we don't know. mean, I mean, walk this during this baby. I get in right here in Highway one. Yeah, we don't know that. But if we have our eyes on the eternal things and eternal destination of being with him for eternity, it's it's it's the truth. That's that's the bottom line. Amen. That's awesome. Fantastic. Well, listen, we want you guys to know.
how much we all love you and we're standing with you, we're praying for you, going through these difficult times that you may be going through and knowing that as Paul said that there's still fruit that God is gonna use you to really- Amen. To bear fruit for Jesus and to touch other people's lives as well. And we wanna say something about Paul's ministry and his website.
which is what Paul Clark music.com because I did Paul Clark that common that wasn't it. No, no, that guy stole it actually. So I went to Paul Clark music.com. He's got what 18 21 21. Okay. was 18. on the last needs to be updated. Yeah. 21. And so, uh, yeah. Lots of great music. And, uh, the last was called sharpen the X. you'll be go on the, go on the website and listen to sharpen the X and people can find you on Facebook. Yep.
Facebook and Paul Clark music music on Facebook. And then Instagram. Great. Yeah. So be sure to connect with Paul because he's just a well of living water. Not just a well, but he's a gushing river. There's some mud down there still at the bottom, but we're going to get it out of there someday. We all have that.
Charlie & Jill LeBlanc (01:02:36.785)
Absolutely. It's an honor being with you guys today. Thank you so much for coming and sharing this time with us. So next time we'll be in the house. Love you guys. God bless you all. for joining us today and share this episode with someone you know that would be blessed by it and we'll just believe God for seeing you again. All right. God bless.