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The Gearbox Podcast brings on industry professionals to explore the day-to-day operations of owning and operating a shop. From common frustrations to industry-wide shifts, this podcast covers it with fun and insightful conversations.
Jimmy Purdy [00:00:13]:
Welcome to the Gearbox podcast. I'm your host, Jimmy Purdy. On this podcast, we're not just exploring the latest trends and technologies in the automotive industry. We're also getting real about the journey. Yes, the bumpy road of mistakes and lessons learned hard along the way. This is the Gearbox podcast. Never quite know what's gonna be coming out of our mouths, you know?
David Marks [00:00:37]:
Ain't that the truth? Ain't that the truth, man.
Jimmy Purdy [00:00:42]:
So, mister David Marks, you're in Missouri, is that right?
David Marks [00:00:48]:
Yeah. I'm not. Yeah, yeah, it's. Well, I could call it a lot of other things. Misery.
Jimmy Purdy [00:00:56]:
Missouri. Missouri.
David Marks [00:00:58]:
Yeah, Missouri. Yeah, yeah. I'm just west of St. Louis is where I'm at. I'm in St. Louis county. I'm west of St. Louis.
Jimmy Purdy [00:01:04]:
Oh, right on. That's a pretty. Is that metropolized? Is it kind of smaller?
David Marks [00:01:11]:
Uh, no, it's not metropolized. So St. Louis city. There's St. Louis city, and then there's St. Louis county. That's where I'm in. And then in St.
David Marks [00:01:21]:
Louis county, there's like 92, what we call municipalities and the city, the county, and the municipalities do not get along. Interest. Yeah. Once upon a time, there was talk. They called it better together because the city's broke. Okay. And it's one of the highest crime rated cities in America. It is.
David Marks [00:01:41]:
It's like their murder rates crazy. It's one of the highest crime rated cities in America. And they try to drive.
Jimmy Purdy [00:01:48]:
Detroit, huh?
David Marks [00:01:50]:
Yeah. Oh, dude. St. Louis. If you google the top five most dangerous cities, I'd be shocked if St. Louis doesn't pop up.
Jimmy Purdy [00:01:57]:
Wow.
David Marks [00:01:58]:
And what they wanted to do was combine the city and county and called it better together. That got voted down. If it would have went through, St. Louis would have been the 9th largest city in the nation. I don't know where it ranks right now. I have no idea. It's sad because St. Louis is actually heavily segregated, and it's really sad.
David Marks [00:02:21]:
And it's always been like that, and I don't see it changing. I mean, the city, the county, and the. I think there's, like 90 municipalities in St. Louis county. I'm the one called Maryland Heights. It's crazy. And none of them get along.
Jimmy Purdy [00:02:37]:
That's interesting.
David Marks [00:02:39]:
Yep, it's interesting. Well, because some municipalities generate. Have good household media income. You know this. They generate a lot of tax revenue for that municipality, and some of them are managed. Manage their money very well. In other words, it's obvious. It's a complete joke, and it's completely mismanaged.
David Marks [00:02:55]:
So what that would have done is a lot of people that, myself included, that live. I live and operate their business in a municipality that has a good hold house, immediate income, where the tax revenue is being used appropriately. I didn't want that going to a municipality or part of the city where it's been mismanaged. And it's obvious, it's like, that's not our fault. That's not why I'm here. I'm here to, how do I improve the. My local community? Not another one that went in the tubes because of, you know, the residents didn't voted in the wrong people. That's not my fault.
David Marks [00:03:29]:
A lot of it had to do with it. And it's like, how do you take a city, you know, St. Louis is one of the oldest cities in America. It goes back to the 17 hundreds, if I'm not mistaken. It's that old. And, you know, it was gateways, gateway to the west. That's why the arch was built. You know, St.
David Marks [00:03:45]:
Louis was the gateway to the west. And when you're, you know, because once upon a time, you know, the St. Louis Cardinals, for decades, were the most, were the only team west of the Mississippi till the Giants and Dodgers moved to LA and San Francisco in the mid fifties. So it's always been the gateway to the west. And it's just, yeah, yeah, I don't even know why we're going down this rabbit hole with the history of St. Louis. This has nothing to do with automotive.
Jimmy Purdy [00:04:12]:
But, oh, man, that's how, that's how America was built, you know, like, oh, I mean, it goes way back to, like, horse and buggy, right? And then, like, that was the invention, the automobile. No one was sold on it, right? Like, I don't need one of those. I've been getting around just fine. And that's just like, what we fight every day, right, is like the history of, like, of the evolution. And I mean, it's like, right, I. Right now with the electric vehicles, like, is that the next thing or not? Who knows? But I guess the main things going back to the history is like trying to sell people this vehicle, right? Like, which now is like, you can't go without it, right? Like, it's. No, everyone thinks it's a right, not a privilege. So another rabbit hole we're going down.
Jimmy Purdy [00:04:48]:
But, I mean, history is important part of the automotive community, right?
David Marks [00:04:52]:
Oh, absolutely. So St. Louis is a great for cause. Yes. We do have a public transportation system, and it's not safe, and no one wants to use it, you hear constantly on our public transportation. People can shot, stabbed, robbed your sol in this town without a car. Just flat out, it sounds like it's.
Jimmy Purdy [00:05:14]:
More dangerous than like necessity.
David Marks [00:05:18]:
Exactly. We have it and it's a complete joke. It's not safe. So, on, on, outside of. So if you come into St. Louis, you know, you go west and there's St. Louis county. You cross the Missouri river to what's called St.
David Marks [00:05:30]:
Charles county, which, dude, there's a ton of money out there and they have voted down multiple times our public transportation system in St. Louis city and county to St. Charles because they know what it's going to bring. It's going to bring crime. It's going to bring, you know, the wrong people that, you know, they got nothing to lose. So they're not afraid to rob somebody, stab somebody and kill somebody, you know, because that's just the environment that they grow up in. And, and it's, that's been voted down multiple times. Every time that comes up to vote, they shoot it down because they know exactly what it's going to bring.
David Marks [00:05:59]:
So we just really don't have a public transportation system. So I'm in the best business. It's bigger poison.
Jimmy Purdy [00:06:07]:
Yeah. So how does that, how does that translate for you running your shop every day? You're, you're a tire shop and general auto.
David Marks [00:06:15]:
Yeah, we're full service auto repair. And then I'm unique. Cause I also have my Missouri used auto dealer license. We buy, I buy and sell as well. And I also got into financing this year. I got seven people making monthly car payments to me. So I'm doing that as well through a lease to own program on used cars. There's me and one other person in St.
David Marks [00:06:35]:
Louis area doing that. Other than that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:06:37]:
Now that sounds a little scary considering the little bit of a backstory we got there. I mean, how does that work with the default and all that stuff?
David Marks [00:06:46]:
Well, what's cool about the program that I'm on? So the program, it's developed by Northland Auto solutions that goes back to the nineties. And it's, its target market is subprime customers. Well, with the market that I'm in, you know, it attracts prime and mid prime. And I'm talking about credit scores. So I'm really working to get more of this in the mid prime because people that have a prime credit score, I'm not going to debate what qualifies prime, mid prime and subprime. They're just going to go finance a new car because they have the, they have the financial capability to do that. But this program, I feel, is really awesome for that mid prime, okay. Where they're not going to get the interest rate that a prime customer can, and they may not have the income to do it.
David Marks [00:07:33]:
So for so one, interest rates are regulated at the state level based on the industry. Okay. And this is a state funded state regulated, not national. Okay. And used auto dealers are regulated at the state level, not the federal level. Okay. That doesn't mean that there's federal laws that apply at all states, though. They're regulated at the state, at least for used auto dealers.
David Marks [00:07:59]:
I can't speak on what the laws are for a new franchise dealer. I don't know. In the state of Missouri, the Missouri Department of Revenue is who issues licenses for auto dealers, both new and used. Mine is up for Newell at the end of the year.
Jimmy Purdy [00:08:14]:
Yeah. Wild, wild west when it comes to that stuff. So who knows what it is, you know, even county to county sometimes I feel like. But especially state to state. Right.
David Marks [00:08:24]:
But Missouri, they're pretty loose. I want to say it's pretty easy to get a dealer's license in the state of Missouri, the Missouri State highway patrol, who signs the application. So in the state of Missouri, as long as you get a state trooper to sign his name and put his badge number on the application, the Missouri department revenue list you a dealer's license. Because what that, what they look at is when that happens, is that you've met the requirements to have a bona fide place of business. To be a used auto dealer, you got to get a criminal background check to the Missouri State highway patrol. They do not allow convicted felons to have dealer licenses. Got to be bonded and have insured. So as long as you meet those boxes, which isn't, it's a little different.
Jimmy Purdy [00:09:06]:
A little different than California, because I've looked into that for the cal. I'm like, ah, I don't even really want to sell cars. So. So I give you props for doing that. Right. But I don't even, like, I just wanted the license in case I do because I think it's 15 in California, if I believe if I sell 15 cars, I'm required to have a dealer license, a used dealer license. And that'll happen quick, right. Like sometimes by July, it's like people leave their cars, they don't want to fix it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:09:33]:
I don't know about now in the last couple years, I don't know if you've seen that, too, but it's kind of transitioned but I, in previous years, it's like, ah, you know what? I'm buying something new. What do you do with this? You want the pink slip, and you're like, uh, sure, I guess, right? And then you fix it and you sell it. So racking up 15 in a year was not a big deal. And it's like, I don't want anybody to come knocking on my door if I. If I sell too many, right? But looking in the dealer license is like, yeah, maybe I'll just stop taking those cars for payment. Like, you owe me the diag. Get the car towed out of here. I don't even want to, you know, because it just sits in the back lot for six months anyway until we get to it.
David Marks [00:10:07]:
That's one of the reasons why I have mine. I'll give you a perfect, good example. I do that, like, 15 times a year. So, Missouri, you got to have, if you sell more than six as a private individual, they want you to have your dealer's license.
Jimmy Purdy [00:10:19]:
Wow, okay.
David Marks [00:10:20]:
Yeah, it's six. So I just did this last week. A lady said, a Chevy equinox. We all know what it needs. So she just really just left it, gave it to me. So with the toe and the diet fee, I was at, like two something, you know, junkyard bought it for $500 from me. So I do that all the time. I'm dumbfounded how I find that a lot of shop owners are just closed minded against auto sales.
David Marks [00:10:47]:
There's nothing wrong if you want to be just an auto repair shop owner, and there's nothing wrong with. One of the things I'm going to talk about is I'm going to. This is going to. I'm going to. I'm going to stir the pot. I am going to stir the pot, and I'm going to poke the bear. We have too many people in these automotive groups, I'm not gonna say which ones, that are just convinced the only way you can make money is doing just auto repair. And if you want to do anything else, you know, you're.
David Marks [00:11:11]:
You're. You're just crazy. You're stupid. You're all kinds of other things, and they don't understand, and they want to, they want to tell other people like myself what they think I should be doing. It's none of their damn business. You know, if you want to be just an auto repair shop owner, fine. If you want to own five locations, fine. If you want to do what I'm doing, fine.
David Marks [00:11:31]:
It's not right, wrong, good or bad. There's too many guys in these Facebook groups that we're all part of to think what other people are doing is right, wrong, good or bad. And honestly, I've dropped out of some of them be because of that, because I'm tired of. I'm tired of dealing with it. I'm tired of listening to it. They're closed minded, and they think the only way you can make money in automotive is doing just auto repair. And I don't know.
Jimmy Purdy [00:11:50]:
Not just auto. Not just auto repair, but just brakes, alignments.
David Marks [00:11:54]:
Yeah, right. Just repairs that they're doing. Because I made a ton of money flipping cars. You wonder where the money's at flipping cars? It's do. It's doing business with people from my repair business. Like, here's a good example. We had a lady. She had a 2015 Chevy GMC Denali with 200,000 miles on it.
David Marks [00:12:11]:
You could eat off this thing, dude. It was immaculate. That's no exaggeration. And it needed an engine. So I took it to the auction, and it sold for 15 grand in lane. I got 14,475. I wrote her a check for 10,000, and she was ecstatic. You can't do that in auto repair.
David Marks [00:12:28]:
Just flat out, you can't, you know, and I got more stories behind that, and it's. It's. So I get more money than a diag fee in a parking lot ornament, and the customer feels happy because I've got plenty. I've got a few. I had a Jeep Cherokee. It was a 2014 or 15 ish with a. It was a SRT, loaded, had everything on it. It needed an engine.
David Marks [00:12:50]:
I took it. The guy. I told the guy I could sell it at auction for you, and I'm going to put between 15 and 17 grand in your pocket. Right? He goes, what will you buy it off me for? So I wrote him a check. I wrote his bank a check for 13,000, like $325, because that's what he owed on it. And then I wrote the check. He went, got me to learn lease came back. I took it to auction.
David Marks [00:13:12]:
It sold exactly for 17 grand in lane. After the auction fee, I got like 16 seven or 16 six something. So you take that spread. That's what I made, you know, and my sales, because all my three companies, they're all separate entities, right? So sales paid back the repair for the diag, and then it kept. It kept the profit. You can't do that on auto repair. Now, this didn't happen overnight. This took time to build up.
David Marks [00:13:36]:
Dude, I saw a lot of stuff at auction for people. And I get more than a Diag fee in a parking lot ornament. It's already here. Manheim is 9 miles from me. I can take it over there. I could probably put this in your pocket. They say do it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:13:47]:
That's awesome. I think it's location, too, right? Like, being close to the yard. For us, the closest copart is like 4 hours, 3 hours away. So that's one of the things I've thought about, too. But you gotta have a carrier, and you got to be taking three or four cars at a time to make it make sense, and. But it doesn't mean you don't do it. And I'll agree. I mean, the only reason why I got to where I'm at is.
Jimmy Purdy [00:14:07]:
Is flipping cars, right? Like, I did it on the side. I was working for somebody, and I'd buy cars that were broken, I'd fix them. I'd say, you know, it's all cash, right? I don't think you can build a business off of that, because as soon as you start doing it the right way, you. That thousand dollars, $2,000 you made turns into $200, you know, like, so it's like, okay, that's not a business model, but you can make a lot of money with it, right. And if it's something you're doing on the side to try to get a little cash in the. In the. And the savings, I don't see a problem with that. Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:14:37]:
My accountant's probably screaming at me right now to not do that. Right. But there's the right thing, and then there's realistically. Right, like, how. The bottom line is, we need cash flow. We need cash in the pocket. How do we get that right? And like you said, being closed minded, you don't think of these other opportunities that are sitting right in front of you. Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:14:54]:
How do I. You know, one of the things I wanted to bring up was getting creative with. With when something goes wrong. And we had a misdiagnosis this last week. We called out a transmission, and it ended up being the catalytic converter. And the problem is, it was a quick diag. The guy was a diY. He just came in to use our expertise to, hey, I wanted to just make sure what it is.
Jimmy Purdy [00:15:18]:
So he went and bought the train, put it in his driveway, didn't fix the problem, then went to another shop, ended up being the cat. Now, this is all hearsay, but it doesn't matter. He. I mean, luckily, he. He came back to us and let us know. Right? And I say luckily, because that's a missed opportunity if he didn't. Right? And it was like. And we ended up, I guess we ended up serving, servicing the transmission, trying to alleviate it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:15:41]:
And so it was a pretty big repair bill that he had after he left. And of course, you get kind of upset and you're trying to think about what's going, like, how do we avoid this, right? And so my point was using that as a pivot point to, like, get creative with it. So how do I. How do I make this better? Right? And so one of the things I wanted to do was credit him $1,000 towards the shop to get him to come back. Right? Hey, we made a mistake flat out, here's your money back for the. For the diag. And he's like, well, you know, just so you know, I'm at $3,000 that I didn't need to spend. It's like, well, it was a Kia with 160,000 miles on it, so you probably gonna need that sooner than later.
Jimmy Purdy [00:16:19]:
But the point is, we were wrong, you know, and I gotta eat crow. Like, that's. That's the bottom line. And it's like, instead of getting upset about it or instead of being closed mind about it, how do I look at this and say, how do I retain this guy, right? And what's the right thing to do? Maybe I should credit him some money towards the shop for his future repair bills. Cause he's obviously gonna be keeping this car for a long time now, so. But it's just not being closed minded about it, you know? And that sucks. It's like, it doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, man, it stings.
David Marks [00:16:48]:
Yeah, I could. I could definitely relate to that. I can't think of a time where we've. Where that specific something to that extremist has happened. It has happened. I mean, what we've done, you know, that's. I think that's a situation by situational case. Yeah.
David Marks [00:17:06]:
And the caveat is, is the customer we missed. We had one of our. We just picked up a new fleet account, and we. I actually did this. The blower motorhouse wasn't working. I diagnosed it as a blower motor resistor. And I was wrong. It needed the control unit is what it needed, and the customer paid the difference.
David Marks [00:17:25]:
We said, hey, this isn't wrong. This is what it takes to fix it. It was a few hundred bucks more. He says, fine, no big deal, all good. And other people in other situations, we, you know, we've done it multiple ways where we just fix it and just keep our mouth shut and write up the ticket. We've fixed it and, you know, told the customer, and I think the customer is a caveat on that. You know, like, you guys obviously wanted to retain that customer and I applaud you for that. I think that's the other moral thing.
David Marks [00:17:59]:
What do we do? And I'm not going to answer this question because I don't know what I would do because it's hard to get emotionally attached to a situation that I'm not emotionally involved in on this podcast is what do we do when it's somebody that after the fact we could care less than we just don't want to keep, you know, what do we, what do we, what do we, what do we do? Because, yeah, that's happened before too. And it's. And it's because I know that there's been situations where, and I'm just going to throw myself under the bus is that has happened. And I may not do the right thing or I do something valid to this because I know they're not our customer. So what, what, what do we do in this situation?
Jimmy Purdy [00:18:38]:
It's kind of part of that. I mean, obviously it's a diy and he's. He wouldn't fix it himself. So I think ultimately, business wise, it's probably something we should just like wipe our hands clean. We made a mistake. So procedures are going to change on the shop floor. We're not going to just, you know, we're going to add a few steps to the sop when it comes to transmission diagnosis. Right? Like this is a CVT Kia.
Jimmy Purdy [00:19:00]:
And it's like, it's already kind of tough because those things are garbage as they, you know, to begin with. I think it was just a shotgun diag, right. Had a bunch of miles on it. I was acting up, probably needed trans. And the tech moved on to the next thing. Like, whose fault is that? It's my fault. It's my fault for not having something more in line to have a quality control after the fact when you're calling out, you know, $6,000 repair. So maybe we put something in place where it gets to a certain number for a repair.
Jimmy Purdy [00:19:25]:
Okay, well, I need to look at that or someone more senior needs to look at it. But regardless, it's more like making sure that he knows we have empathy and like, we want to stand behind our word and giving his money back for the diag I don't think is enough. Maybe it is maybe, like said, I'm more emotionally attached to it because he's probably not going to come back for more repairs, not because we screwed up, but because he's just the guy that just, he had a major issue and he wanted an expertise. Everything else he handles himself. So he's probably not going to come back regardless. Right. But it's just more like, man, I do feel like, I do feel that. Right? Like.
Jimmy Purdy [00:20:00]:
Cause if I was in that position and I went as professional and then I did the work, I'm like, man, really? And so you have that little bit of empathy, but also it's like, it's just stem. It's just trying to find that line, making sure you're standing behind your integrity, but also that you're looking out for the best course for the business. Right. Because I can't just be handing out thousands of dollars all the time for nothing. So it's a tough one.
David Marks [00:20:26]:
I think you did the right thing by hand out the diag. That's what I would have done. And I would have explained to the customer that that was his choice to do that on his own. Yeah, he could have easily paid because I know you, dude. If that was, if you guys, if he'd paid you to do the repair and you would have done that repair and it didn't fix it, you would have just, hey, I'm going to fix it. I'm just going to charge you for that. And you would just ate the transmission. That's what you would have done.
Jimmy Purdy [00:20:54]:
And that's what I was thinking, too. And that's why the credit of that, that certain dollar amount was like, well, that's probably what we would have eaten anyway, so why not credit it to him to have him come back for more work and hopefully build a better relationship, so. Exactly. Yeah, you're right.
David Marks [00:21:07]:
I think. I think you did the right thing for, and, you know, because what I tell all my customers is whoever tells them what's wrong with the car, have them do it, because we get people. This is what I do is I saw this avoids the finger pointing contest because nobody wins a finger pointing test because customer calls up, I need an alternator. Okay, well, what makes you think you need one or what concerns you have? Well, I was told this, and I'll ask us, well, how come they're not fixing it? Just flat out?
Jimmy Purdy [00:21:32]:
Yeah.
David Marks [00:21:32]:
Because I want to hear what they have to say. And it's usually, it's a trust. There's some level of trust. And I say, that's fine. I said, if you bring your car over here and we just put an alternator on it and we do zero testing and it doesn't fix it, I'm going to get paid. And you're stuck holding the back. And then if you go back to that shop, they're going to say, well, we didn't do the work. You're stuck holding the bag.
David Marks [00:21:53]:
So it's always best whoever tells you what's wrong with it, let them fix it. Because if they're wrong, well, then you can point the finger at them. And I get people in the door with, that way, either it gets them off the phone, it's like, they get it. It's like, no, this is why we're not giving a price, and this is why we're not doing that. Because, you know, I just asked, well, what would you do? And they're, and nobody's argued with that. People just cannot argue with, this is how you avoid the finger pointing contest because nobody wins in a finger pointing contest. And that's exactly what's gonna happen. I mean, if somebody had us tell them what's wrong with the car and then they went, took it to another shop, but they fix it and didn't fix it, I'm gonna tell them that's not my problem.
David Marks [00:22:31]:
I don't know what they did.
Jimmy Purdy [00:22:33]:
Yeah, yeah, there's that side of it, too. And it's really depending on the person that comes back. And obviously, I mean, who knows what could have happened, right? Like, maybe the transmission did have an issue, right? Maybe the cat caused the transmission to eventually fail. That's a very good possibility. Right? Like, so, but it doesn't matter. He, it's what, it's already in his head. And that's what kind of sucks about those situations because it's all hearsay. You don't know.
Jimmy Purdy [00:22:57]:
You know, you're talking about a plug cat causing torque management problems with a CVT transmission in a Kia. Like, yeah, it's very likely that the one created the other, but maybe it didn't, and that's that. But that it's like, okay, well, I got to have more integrity to like, you know, stand behind that. And maybe I'm wrong for doing that, but I think it's the right thing to do to just help that certain situation, you know, like, all right, well, and that's the unfortunate thing about growing. I think that's a growing pain because I can't be involved in every single diagn, every single repair process. And that's one, I think, just personally for me that I have to, like, learn to accept. If I want to have a crew of 15 guys and have two separate, you know, locations, that's going to happen. And I got to figure out how to fix that, not try to avoid it, you know? Does that make sense? Because I'm never going to be.
Jimmy Purdy [00:23:46]:
I'm never going to be avoid it.
David Marks [00:23:49]:
I would say it would be figuring out how to absorb that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:23:52]:
Yeah.
David Marks [00:23:53]:
How do you. How do you absorb that? Because you're right. It's. It's going to happen. And I think that's, there's some things as business owners, especially if we want to have employees like we do. It's what you signed up for, you know? It's what you signed up for. If you can't accept that to just be a one man band, there's nothing wrong with being a one man band. And if you're going to have employees like we do, like, you want to have two locations, obviously have managers in each one.
David Marks [00:24:17]:
You're going to have technicians and all that. They're going to make mistakes. They're going to cost you money. So what do we do to absorb that? Because you're right. We can't avoid it. You know, and this is something, this is cool that we're talking about this, because it's like, okay, I need to figure out how do I do that within mine? Absorb it. I think that's the key, is figuring out how do we absorb it, you know? And if you hire the right people, they will, you know, they'll. They'll feel bad about it in a good way.
David Marks [00:24:52]:
Like, what can they learn from it as well? And saying, oh, well, not my problem, you know, that's what I got my shop is when my staff makes a mistake, you know, they own it. They feel bad about it and, and they own it, and it's something that we can, we can learn from.
Jimmy Purdy [00:25:10]:
Yeah. And that comes to just leadership and management. Right. How do you bring that up in a way that it's a teachable moment. Right. Like, like with kids or whatever. Right. And it's like, I mean, laugh about it, but I mean, it's, it's.
Jimmy Purdy [00:25:23]:
It's true, though, like, because everybody has to learn a different way. And I was just talking to my wife this morning about this at breakfast, is like, everybody was raised a different way. Right. Some people need to be yelled at. Like, that's just how they were raised. Some people, you know what I mean? Like, but some people need to have a. Have a polite conversation. And so trying to find out which way get people to learn, but you only, because if you're dealing with a problem like that all the time, well, then they need to be terminated, right? So the unfortunate thing is it's like this.
Jimmy Purdy [00:25:52]:
Once in a, in a blue moon or once in a great while, something goes sideways, right. Their mind somewhere else, they got something personal going on and they just, they're human. They made them a freaking mistake, right. And I'm expecting them to never make a mistake because I wouldn't. But I care more about this business than they ever will, so it's not, you can't, it's not the same, you know? And so you're trying to learn how to manage this, this, this difficult situation with this one off event, you know, and you're like, I don't know how to deal with that. I don't even know how to deal with myself when I make a mistake, I suppose, deal with them.
David Marks [00:26:22]:
So, yeah, I think it starts with having the right people. When you have the right people, one, it's going to be those one offs. And we know that. We know that. You know, I've, I've, you know, been hiring and fire now. And, and for me, for me, my key to hiring and firing is making sure, especially hiring, they have the, what I consider to be the right responsibilities at home when they have the wrong responsibilities at home. That's when what you just said becomes kind of the norm. And it happens more and more because the employees that I fired that have the wrong responsibilities at home, those things have happened.
David Marks [00:27:03]:
The ones that have what I consider to be the right responsibilities at home, those are just one offs and they feel bad for it. And I know they're going to try to bust their ass to make it back for the company because at some, at some level, they do care. Otherwise, they wouldn't still be there. They would still be showing up, you know? And for me, it's okay, you know, are they married with kids? Okay, if I, if this technician, we're assuming this is a male and his girlfriend doesn't have three kids from three different men, well, that's, to me, the wrong responsibilities at home. Not, there's anything wrong with that. I just know in my case, because I've had those Texas employees, I've had a couple of them, they're no longer working for me. They cost me more money than they ever made. And it's because this is just my opinion, is they have the wrong responsibilities at home.
David Marks [00:27:58]:
The staff that I have now, they got the right responsibilities at home. And that stuff doesn't happen. So it's, how do we learn and recognize that during that interview process without violating state labor laws on hiring? So that, that way we know, you know, that this person, they don't because, hey, we all got a little. Do we all remember, well, I'm sure you're all just remember the Jerry Springer show. We all got a little Jerry in us, right? Some just got more so than others. So it's like in this interview, how do we figure out what level of Jerry they got? Because then I know what level employee they got. The less Jerry, the better employed. The more Jerry, the worse employee.
David Marks [00:28:31]:
It's that simple. And it's figuring that out on the front end. And that's just something I've had that aha. Moment that I've realized because my service advisor, she just quit. And the reason she quit is because she's got a, you know, she was a wolf in sheep's clothing. She's got a lot of Jerry. And I didn't find that out till about a month after I hired her. And eventually I knew she wasn't, I was in the early stages of methodically pushing her out the door anyhow, and she.
David Marks [00:28:56]:
And she quit anyway. It's that. So to me, what you're talking about, it's when we hire the right people, those situations, we, I can absorb the blow with the right people. It's when I got the wrong people is when it's a challenge for me, you know, mentally, spiritually and emotionally with the right people, I just kind of brush it off and we just move on.
Jimmy Purdy [00:29:19]:
Yeah. Jerry scale. Call it the Jerry scale. Right.
David Marks [00:29:23]:
The Jerry scale. Yeah. That's what it is, man. It's the truth, you know. Hey, I got some Jerry Springer in me, too. I'm not exempt, you know, but I've worked really hard on, you know, pushing more of the jerry out the door.
Jimmy Purdy [00:29:34]:
Yeah. It's tough in an interview process, too, though, because, I mean, it's just terrible. Interviews are terrible. Right. For everybody, and everyone just gets nervous. Right. And the, the one thing I've noticed and I haven't done a lot, but enough to realize that some of the best employees, the best technicians don't interview very well. Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:29:57]:
Because they haven't looked for a job very often. So it's typically like, man, I haven't been interviewed in, like, six or seven years. And so they're kind of clunky and all over. And then you get these guys that come in and they're just smooth talkers. It's like, man, you're, like, really good at this. So it's like, the best people to interview are usually the worst employees, right? Because they've been interviewed so many times in their life. Just something I've realized, you know? So it's like, I almost want the clunky, awkward interview going on. But then, like you said, how do you find out about the personal life, what's really going on? And asking, like, kind of leading questions of, like, is there anything that would keep you from being here, you know, five days a week? Like.
Jimmy Purdy [00:30:30]:
But then they lie to you anyway. So it's like, what do you do? You gotta just wait, and then you gotta know when just to step in and say, can you really fix this? Can you fix their home problems? And then how involved do you get as a leader and owner in their personal lives before you're like, okay, now you're just taking advantage of my goodwill, right?
David Marks [00:30:50]:
Yeah, that's a great question. Because my service advisors had just quit. Her husband had warrants out in Illinois, and he was driving a car with expired Illinois plates. Long story short, you know, and we've all done this. You know, I shelled out, I think, about 1900 bucks so they could get a car legal. So they had peace of mind driving back, and she was paying me back $50 a week, pay me back, like, 300 of it. Then she quit. You know, my.
David Marks [00:31:21]:
My bookkeeper said, well, you could just hold us our last check. I was like, no, you know what? It's. My peace of mind is worth way more. Just pay her what she's always being paying, and I'm just gonna be done and move on. And, you know, that's not the first time I've done that. That's not the first time it's come back to haunt me. So I just, you know, I got to pull the reins in on that. I'm there to provide.
David Marks [00:31:41]:
I'm there to be an employer, not a therapist, not a financial advisor, not a lot of things. Now, the two that I have working with me now, I would be more inclined to do that because they've got longevity with me, and I truly know what type of people they are. For me, it takes 90 days to really know what I got. This is what I've taught everybody that's good, that wants to hire or, you know, I mentor young business owners now. I love doing that. And it takes 90 days to. To figure out what you got. Because my advisor heard 90 days was this past Monday, and she quit the Friday before.
David Marks [00:32:15]:
It takes 90 days for me to really understand what I have. And then to make that to the next level, it takes 120 to know, okay, they're really going to stick around. And that's been my 90 to know what I got. Then after that 120, which is four months, then I know, is this going to be. This has a lot potential to be long term.
Jimmy Purdy [00:32:42]:
The sustainability, you probably can. More sustainable. You can get the sustainability and. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's. That's a good point of reference because the 90 day probation period, it's kind of like a standard practice, but I don't think a lot really know why. Like, why. Why is it 90? It's like, it's just. It is what it is.
Jimmy Purdy [00:33:00]:
But it's true, though. Once. Once they break that probation period, you can tell, has this all been a front? Are they been. I mean, and I think in our industry, you still don't know who they are technically, but at least you get a better idea of who they are personally. Right? Because in 90 days, you don't work on the same car twice, typically. So it's like, I don't know, it takes a year, I think, before you really start figuring out their aptitude. For me, anyway, it's like, man, what are you good at? What is something that you really produce for me for? And it's like, mandev, man. It takes a long time to really get someone dialed in.
Jimmy Purdy [00:33:32]:
And then obviously, they're constantly evolving themselves, too. So it's. It's. It's tough on the technician side, for me, looking at an interview and trying to ask those right leading questions is like, are you AC certified? When's their last training? And all this, like, I don't even. Like, I don't even care anymore. Like, what do you do on the weekends? Right? Like. Like, what. What's going on? Like, can you show up every day? Are you gonna be late? Like, you like to go party? Like, I think that's more important than, like, how many acs do you have? How fast can you pull a transmission out of a 2014 Chevy 25? Like, who cares? You know, that stuff happens later, you know?
David Marks [00:34:08]:
Yeah, I think it's all a really valid, valid points. What I do is, you know, as best I can, you know, look on Facebook. Yeah, we know stock conditions. Yeah. Most, you know, most technicians are off the radar. Like my master tech, he checks his email when he orders something online to get that confirmation. He don't check it. He don't look at it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:34:29]:
You know, what's up with that, man? What's with no one using their damn email.
David Marks [00:34:34]:
I use mine constantly. But I'm a business owner because I've, you know, I've attempted to get text off. Indeed. And I'll message people and reach out. And this has happened multiple times because I get a phone call three months later. I just checked my email. Is this position still available? Like, are you kidding me? They're just. And that's just the nature of that.
David Marks [00:34:52]:
Of that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:34:53]:
That doesn't, that doesn't make it. That doesn't make him a bad tech. Right? And that's the one thing, too. Like, that's the one thing I've heard, too, is like, well, if they can't even check their email, then they're not going to be a good fit anyways. Like, well, wait a second. That's not fair. That's not a fair option.
David Marks [00:35:05]:
No, that's not part of the job description. Job description is to test the car, tell me what's wrong with it, fix it, and don't come back. I can, you know, so, you know, the best of the two that I have because I, my business model is, I got three and is. They were organic. You know, my lead tech, he. He was referred to me by the tool truck, the other apprentice tech, my partner on the used auto sales side. I got a, I got the dude, I got the most amazing old lady working for me. She's 22 years old.
David Marks [00:35:36]:
She's a perfectly good example. You don't need tech school to do this. You do not. Do not. Do not. Not knocking tech school. I went through rank and tech here in St. Louis in the late nineties, and you don't need it.
David Marks [00:35:46]:
She has everything that you need to be a good, skilled technician. She shows up on time. She's not texting her boyfriend. She's not on Facebook, you know, and she's mechanically inclined. She has the aptitude to learn this trade. That's all you need. You need those things that I just said. You do not need tech school because she has all those things.
David Marks [00:36:05]:
We're willing to put our time efforts because she's coming up on a year with me, and I just gave her $2.50 raise because she's just a rock star, you know, because she earned it. And I came and I told her why. And I told her, because she's 22, dude. She closes on a house next Friday. Like, are you kidding me? How do I get more of you? I sure as hell wasn't able to buy a house at 22 years old. I was. I was doing some things that I'm not going to publicly say. I'll just let leave it at that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:36:34]:
You and me both. You and me both, man.
David Marks [00:36:36]:
Right, right. She's got things, so. No, you know what, is tech school great? Yes, I think so. I think it's got its place. Do you need it? No, she's got what you need to do this. You know, she wants to do it. She's got the aptitude. Her dad was a mechanic.
David Marks [00:36:51]:
That's. That had a big influence on it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:36:54]:
Yeah, I think the why. It's the why and the want, right? Because you can get plenty of people. Master technicians went to UtI, Wyotech, whatever, whatever. And they just have this ego that they know what they're doing, but they don't. Right? And we've seen it. And that puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth for the ase program as well. Like all these ASU master techs think they're just the shit. Like, no, because there's lots of them that don't open their mouth, right? That don't say that they are right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:37:20]:
And they know their shit. So it's tough because there's that ego trip and they think they know a lot, but they don't really want to do it. They thought it was going to be something that it's not. And now they're in debt or now they're like, embedded in it and they're like, just, this isn't. This isn't the glory that I saw on tv, right? So they lose their want, but it's people that were raised and I was the same way. My dad was the ultimate diY, right? And it was like. Just drove me nuts. The amount of times we spent going to dealerships and, like, talking to the guys out back, like, back in the day when you could go to a dealership and be like, hey, can I just pick someone's brain? And, oh, sure.
Jimmy Purdy [00:37:56]:
The technicians are out back and you bow back. I'm like, oh, my God, Adam, what are we, like, doing here? But it was such a valuable lesson because we can't do that anymore, for one, but for two, it's like, do the research. Take the time to figure out what you're doing before you start taking stuff apart. Learning the hard way, right? But that's so ingrained in me now. I don't know any different. And now I want to learn anything new. Like, I need to know how that works. I need to know how to fix it almost to a fault, right? Because some of these jobs I just need to kick.
Jimmy Purdy [00:38:24]:
I don't need to be doing that. What am I, 1937. Court here, right now. Like, why am I. What? How did I get involved in this, right? And it's like, I knew better, but I'm still messing with it. Right, but it's just one of those things. If you want it and you know, and you have that why? I think that's what changes. It sounds like that's who she is, right? It's like, it doesn't matter what it is.
Jimmy Purdy [00:38:42]:
I'm going to figure it out because I want to know what this stuff is. And you get other guys, like, I don't know how to do this. Well, look it up. Can you just tell me what that's. Where do I even start with something like that? Like, how do you even manage that? Like, hey, you're a good kid. You show up, but you want me to tell you every single time you run into a problem? I don't know. That drives me crazy.
David Marks [00:39:05]:
Yeah, you can't teach that. You can't teach that at all. That's. Yeah, no, thankfully, I don't. You know, there's so once, one of the first tires I had is I had a kid. He had. He was like that. He had everything I can't teach.
David Marks [00:39:18]:
He didn't have the aptitude for this. And I held on to him longer than I should have because of that. And one day I just had to flat out Tom. Look, dude, you're a great guy, you know, he would take out the trash, show up on time, do all that stuff. He didn't have the aptitude to learn. I said, I just had to fly. I don't know what you're good at. It's not this.
David Marks [00:39:37]:
It's just. He just didn't have it. I think either. Got it. You're either mechanically inclined or you're not. If you're not, it can be taught. From my experience with dealing with that, it's going to be a big struggle. At the time, I didn't really have a need for a general service tech to do, you know, tires, brakes and all oil changes and that type of stuff, so I had to tell them.
David Marks [00:40:01]:
The other thing I'll say about ASCs is, to me, ASC's tell me that somebody is dedicated to this. They're dedicated to Autobot.
Jimmy Purdy [00:40:10]:
Good point.
David Marks [00:40:10]:
That's what Ascs tell me. You know, my Matt, I used to have all of them. I've let them expire. I don't feel the need or desire. When I found out most of the customers could care less. They just assume that. That's been my experience in talking to them. My master tech, he doesn't have any of them.
David Marks [00:40:25]:
I don't care because I know he's dedicated into it. So when I bring on somebody, or I'm looking at somebody, to me, if they have all those eses, that tells me that they're dedicated to automotive, because if they're dedicated to, and I don't care what it is, fill in the blank. That gives me a good inclination what I'm going to get on the front end, because we all know people. When I went to rank and tech here, there was a math teacher. He didn't know how to use a screwdriver, but he had every. Every ase to prove to the automotive department. If you know how to take tests, you can pass those. You don't need to be a technician to pass those.
David Marks [00:40:57]:
You just got to know how to take tests and you can pass those.
Jimmy Purdy [00:41:01]:
Yeah. It's by no means a measure, but it's definitely a bar, right? Like, it's most definitely a bar. And even though he, you know, he couldn't fix anything, he could probably have a pretty well educated conversation about most aspects of a vehicle, right. And that's important. Especially, like, as a service advisor, if you could have your master tech, as a service advisor, even if you don't know how to fix anything, you can manipulate a situ. A conversation to make it make sense to anybody, right. You gotta know it well enough to teach it. You gotta know.
Jimmy Purdy [00:41:30]:
You know, you gotta know it to be able to teach it. Right. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's one of those things that's. I don't know if it's looked down upon, but they've definitely changed how easy it is to get, which is great, too. Cause you don't wanna, like, shun away a lot of people. So I get why they've taken that testing and moved it in that direction.
Jimmy Purdy [00:41:47]:
Cause a lot we're getting discouraged, and that's the last thing we need, is more discouraged technicians leaving the field. Right. So if nothing else, at least strokes your ego a little bit and makes you think you know more than maybe you really do, which is great. So overall, there's more pros than there are cons about it. I don't. I don't really appreciate when I see the stuff online about people bashing the ase. Like, if you took the time to take the test, you would understand that it's not easy. It might be simple, but it's not easy.
Jimmy Purdy [00:42:15]:
It takes time. It takes money. It takes a little bit of study and you got to know a little bit. And so give people the props they deserve for it, man. Like, sure, maybe they can't fix a sandwich, but, you know, they. They took the time to learn enough to pass this test that has to do with all of us making this industry better. So, I mean.
David Marks [00:42:32]:
Yeah, well, that goes back to. Yeah, yeah, that goes back to. We started. You know, it's people. It's people that looking at somebody else and putting what they're doing is what they think somebody else should be doing. Right? That's a big problem in this industry. And all these Facebook groups. There's too many people that are telling other people, you know, what they think they should be doing instead of.
David Marks [00:42:56]:
Instead of thinking about, okay, what am I doing? And if I tell this other individual, because I'm just going back to me selling cars and talk about car sales on some of these Facebook groups, you know, I. And the other people like to tell me what they think I should be doing. And it's like, why do you care? How is this benefiting you? How is this improving the quality of your life? That's exactly what you're talking about. There is. When they shut down on these asCs, to me, when I used to take them, I don't think they were like, applicable anymore. They weren't modernized. You know, they still talked about, you know, rebuilding alternators and rebuilding starters and stuff that we just don't do anymore. So hopefully they've modernized them and brought them up to current industry standards.
David Marks [00:43:38]:
You know, when I got into this, we used to rebuild CV axles. When was last time you rebuilt the CV axle? We don't do that anymore.
Jimmy Purdy [00:43:45]:
I still have the tool, though.
David Marks [00:43:47]:
Yeah, I do too. No, I got stuff.
Jimmy Purdy [00:43:49]:
I told I can't throw it away because I'm like, maybe one day.
David Marks [00:43:52]:
Yeah, I've got this funny. What's cool now about having a young apprentice like Emily is I get to go up there. You know that wrench you're using? It's older than you are because that used to happen to me. So now it's my turn to do it. Somebody else. I love it. I love it. She just laughs and it's.
David Marks [00:44:07]:
But it's.
Jimmy Purdy [00:44:08]:
I don't. I don't really care.
David Marks [00:44:10]:
I just do it just to. Because I just got to talk shit and I get to. It gets a good laugh out of it. She thinks it's funny and the cycle just continues. Yeah, but that's what guys told me. I got tools over the neon blob. And they were right. And it's like, whoa.
David Marks [00:44:27]:
I'm at that age where I can say that, like, I got tools that are older than the new generation coming in.
Jimmy Purdy [00:44:33]:
Get to put that badge on, you know, that plaque of honor?
David Marks [00:44:37]:
It is. It's a. It's a, you know, it's. It's a badge and honor. So one thing that I have noticed, go back to the interview process, is I want to make sure that they're so to me, because my service advisors position has been a struggle to fill for me for whatever reason. I don't know why. And that position typically pays better than the technicians position is, are they dedicated to automotive? Okay. And are they, you know, are they dedicated to automotive? Because here's how I've learned to define a career as a job, is I've had a couple people.
David Marks [00:45:11]:
I hired a childhood friend of mine as a service advisor, and he's great salesman. And when I. After he lasted six weeks and I fired his ass, and after. After looking at his resume, you know, it was. He just. He wasn't committed to a career. He had always done sales, but he had industry hopped. Industry hopped, industry hopped, industry hop, industry hopped.
David Marks [00:45:32]:
And so, you know, I want to make sure that this Canada bringing on their resume is full of automotive because that shows that they're committed and they're dedicated. They know what automotive is, what they want to do. Now, the other thing is, you know, okay, let's say they started out on a high school. They were in a couple different jobs for ten years, and they've been automotive for five years. That's fine. Now, here's another situation that I would, I would entertain this. Let's say somebody's been in a furniture sales for 20 years, okay. The resume just shows furniture store.
David Marks [00:46:04]:
At the furniture store. Furniture store. Okay. That shows dedication, that shows commitment. And maybe they're in their mid forties. Look, dude, I'm just burned out. I'm looking for something different to do. I would take a chance on that because I know that they have the ability to be committed and be dedicated.
David Marks [00:46:21]:
Dedicated to it. That's one thing I've learned with hiring for that position and same thing with the technician. I want to see that this guy has consistent work history as being a tech. I don't put. I don't put a whole lot of weight in the job hopping because I job top a lot when I was younger. And some of it had to do with just the people I was working with. Some of it had to do just with my life situation. So I understand that, respect that.
David Marks [00:46:46]:
And all those questions is just the key is, is it consistent job? Because that's a career. You know, if you're in an industry, that's a career. A job is when you go from, you know, furniture sales, to shoe sales, to pool sales, to selling fences, a deck. You're just looking for the next job. You're not. You don't know what the hell you want to be when you grow up. Honestly.
Jimmy Purdy [00:47:05]:
That's what you're just searching for. You're just searching for the paycheck.
David Marks [00:47:08]:
Yeah, exactly. There's no passion. There's no drive. There's no why. So, for the service advisors position, you know what? I've. I've pulled one person away from the dealership. And not that I wouldn't be willing to do that again, but my next one will be. I want somebody that's got dedicated automotive and independent auto repair shop experience.
David Marks [00:47:27]:
It's just a whole nother world at a dealership.
Jimmy Purdy [00:47:30]:
All right, again. That's David Marks on the Gearbox podcast.
David Marks [00:47:34]:
Listen next week for part two.