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Welcome to The B2B CMO Podcast, a show for marketing executives who are redefining what it means to be a strategic leader. Join Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan every week as they talk with the very best Chief Marketing Officers who are navigating the modern marketing playbook and positioning themselves as strategic leaders.
Each episode, we unpack what it really takes to lead through complexity, earn trust at the strategy table, and shape the future of growth.
We’re building the community, research, and frameworks CMOs need to reclaim their strategic role and drive sustainable growth.
For more marketing leadership resources, visit [b2bcmoproject.com](http://b2bcmoproject.com/).
B2B CMO - 002 - Tracey Newell
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[00:00:00]
Sydney Sloan: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] Hello and welcome [00:00:25] back everybody to the B2B CMO podcast. Today we [00:00:30] have with us Tracy Newell. She is the author of Hers for the Taking [00:00:35] fantastic book. Highly recommend you get it. And, um, she's based this story on [00:00:40] leading global revenue teams. She was the president at Informatica. Now she sits on [00:00:45] many boards and she's very active board member.
Sydney Sloan: I've, I've heard many stories in some of the [00:00:50] fastest growing software companies in the world. Tracy has held leadership positions at [00:00:55] Proofpoint, Polycom, Cisco, where we have shared stories, and now she's [00:01:00] on a mission to help more women step into leadership. With confidence and [00:01:05] clarity. I couldn't think of a better person to add to our podcast that can bring a [00:01:10] different perspective.
Sydney Sloan: That's not directly from the CMO. It's surrounding the cmo. She's managed [00:01:15] CMOs, she's been president, she's been on boards, and so we're gonna get into some details [00:01:20] on what she's seen and what she's recommending to keep us more strategic. But before we dive [00:01:25] into the questions, Tracy, uh, we're gonna get to know you a little bit.
Sydney Sloan: So we always love to start with like. [00:01:30] Who is Tracy Newell? What is your origin story? Where'd you come from
Tracey Newell: Where did I
Sydney Sloan: and [00:01:35] welcome? Where did you come from
Tracey Newell: Uh, well, I guess, you [00:01:40] know, I was born and raised in California and I grew up in the Silicon Valley and fell in love [00:01:45] with tech at a very early age, straight outta college, and started in really big giant [00:01:50] companies like at and t and Cisco, and started going into smaller companies. And the smaller they [00:01:55] got, the more fun they became.
Tracey Newell: And so, uh, that's, that's a little bit about me and now I'm doing board [00:02:00] work and when I'm not doing that, I'm spending time with my family.
Jon Miller: Hmm.
Sydney Sloan: Awesome. And, [00:02:05] um, if, if there was, um, a biopic of your life [00:02:10] and you look back. Into your experiences, what would be the two to [00:02:15] three scenes that you definitely would wanna make sure made it into the movie and who would play [00:02:20] you?
Tracey Newell: Oh gosh, we clearly didn't [00:02:25] rehearse these questions, but, uh, the. Two to three [00:02:30] scenes. I, I would say one, one scene for all of your listeners, your [00:02:35] viewers is, uh, would be the reality in my [00:02:40] probably thirties, that we can do so much more. Then we know, you know, and I, [00:02:45] I was challenged, I was lucky about a number of times and I talked a lot about it in my book, [00:02:50] uh, that, you know, people said, Hey, you can do this.
Tracey Newell: You can run a company. And I remember looking around going, [00:02:55] who are you talking to? You know? 'cause I'd never met anyone who'd run a company, let alone. Thought that I could do it. So, [00:03:00] you know, I, I would say that was one of the, the big lessons learned. And I would say [00:03:05] the second one of my favorite movies I just watched it is, uh, I don't know how she does it with Sarah Jessica [00:03:10] Parker.
Tracey Newell: Um, the book was really, really good. Um, but this idea of balancing family and [00:03:15] life was really hard for me. In my thirties and, and, and I [00:03:20] almost shut down my career because of it. And, uh, that's another big lesson and message [00:03:25] I have for men and women that are, you know, in the messiness of life with little tiny [00:03:30] people at home.
Tracey Newell: Or maybe it's aging parents or just, you know, really heavy burdens that you're carrying. [00:03:35] Uh, you can't have an amazing career and have an amazing [00:03:40] personal life too. Would be my second scene that would be most important.
Sydney Sloan: And do you [00:03:45] have a favorite actress who you think would play you?
Tracey Newell: Oh, [00:03:50] maybe Tia Leone. I'd have to be really lucky,
Sydney Sloan: [00:03:55] that's a good one. I love that.
Tracey Newell: I do like her. Madam Secretary was a pretty [00:04:00] great show.
Sydney Sloan: Love that. Love that. Well, um, I do remember [00:04:05] reading that chapter in the book where you were in, you were in the office and somebody said [00:04:10] that to you and you wrote you, I think you said like an emphatic note, like, there's no way I can do that. I have. You know, [00:04:15] I'm struggling as it is. How could I ever do it?
Sydney Sloan: And then you went into, in a complete [00:04:20] diatribe of like, wait a minute, men can do it. Why can't I do it? Um, so, uh, those, [00:04:25] the, I vividly remember that story. So I think it would make a good scene in, uh, in a, [00:04:30] maybe you have a six part mini series,
Tracey Newell: Yeah, there's
Sydney Sloan: the Life of a Silicon Valley's [00:04:35] Lady
Tracey Newell: Uh, a hundred percent yeah. Men and women both feel the pain, but [00:04:40] I have met so many women that have turned down promotions and I turned down a ton of them, uh, just because of [00:04:45] all these amazing stories I was making up in my head. None of 'em were true.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah. Well, let's [00:04:50] get into, um, some of the, the themes as well of the book. [00:04:55] And so you talk about confidence as something that you can [00:05:00] build, not something you're born with. So I'm curious if there's a moment in your [00:05:05] career where you didn't feel ready, so we can dive into one of those stories, but you said yes [00:05:10] anyway.
Sydney Sloan: The moment where you actually went over this, the voice in your head and [00:05:15] did it, and what was the outcome, what did that decision cost you or what unlocked [00:05:20] for you in that moment where you finally said yes.
Tracey Newell: Yeah, so kind of going back to that [00:05:25] first scene that we were just talking about, I, I knew I wanted to, [00:05:30] you know, again, I was early thirties, wanted to make a change. Working at big company is working at Cisco. [00:05:35] And I knew I didn't like my current job and I wanted a new one. I didn't know what that was. And someone [00:05:40] said, well, what do you want to do long term?
Tracey Newell: You know, five, 10 years from now, do you wanna run a company? [00:05:45] And the thought of running Cisco at 30 years old seemed a little overwhelming to [00:05:50] me. And, uh, she pushed back and said, well, why not? And I said, well, I have two little kids. [00:05:55] And, uh, I just can't imagine doing that right now. I'd never see him again.
Tracey Newell: She said, gimme another reason. I said, I don't have the [00:06:00] skills. And, and this mentor said, you know, what, about 15 [00:06:05] years from now, would you do it then when your kids are maybe in high school or college? And I, [00:06:10] it, it really caused me to hit the pause button and I kind of gulped out, maybe stammered out a [00:06:15] maybe, you know, because she seemed to think it was possible and.
Tracey Newell: And her advice [00:06:20] is what changed my life. Her her advice said, well then get the experiences in the next 10 to [00:06:25] 15 years that will allow you to have that option when you know you're a bit [00:06:30] farther down the road and, and so that was life changing advice. You know, I've been talking a lot on LinkedIn [00:06:35] about how your career is not a ladder, it's more of a jungle gym.
Tracey Newell: And I took a lot [00:06:40] of sideways steps. I went backwards several times, you know? [00:06:45] And people would look at me and go, what are you doing? You know why? Like I, my first management job was [00:06:50] managing accounts receivable when I was 26 years old, and my friends were all in sales and they said, you're [00:06:55] crazy. And yet, you know, maybe I was, I, I didn't really understand what, [00:07:00] what I was doing, I think at the time, but.
Tracey Newell: These were union employees that have been with the [00:07:05] company called at t more, you know, longer than I'd been alive. You know, they're all 25, 30 year vets. [00:07:10] And I learned more from managing that team than I did in my next two or [00:07:15] three jobs. So, you know, taking lots of laterals and sidestep so that you learn how to run a [00:07:20] business, run a company, versus being, you know, what I call a mile high and an inch deep, where you [00:07:25] only know your function.
Tracey Newell: Uh, that, that really changed my career [00:07:30] trajectory.
Sydney Sloan: That's so interesting. And then when you're running those functions, I always wondered that when I [00:07:35] was that age is like I was afraid that I couldn't lead [00:07:40] people if I hadn't done the job first, and that was actually a [00:07:45] limiter. Um, but having context of like how the company runs is different than [00:07:50] that. Um, and, and so maybe that was, you know, I understand finance.
Sydney Sloan: [00:07:55] I've worked in finance. I know there's always like. If you're in marketing and you'd [00:08:00] been in sales before, that appreciation for, hey, you held a [00:08:05] bag, like, is like a badge of honor. I, I recommend to marketers, like, if you can, [00:08:10] you know, go do that as part of your journey because it just makes that bond [00:08:15] stronger.
Sydney Sloan: Um, and you, you were in sales for a long time too, right? Like that
Tracey Newell: Yeah, I [00:08:20] was in sales, but I did all kinds of different roles that were operational. So, you know, market [00:08:25] analysts, accounts receivable, strategy operations, those kinds of jobs. [00:08:30] Um, and I always ended up going back to sales and customer success 'cause that that was my passion. But when I went [00:08:35] back, I, I was a much better leader and I was more empathetic to my functional leads as [00:08:40] well, but also able to understand how to find a joint mission or a joint goal [00:08:45] that cross sales.
Tracey Newell: You know, I always think of marketing, marketing isn't really a function. It's, you [00:08:50] know, it's lots of functions. You know, if you could find an initiative that crosses over product marketing and brand and demand, [00:08:55] gen and sales and customer success and engineering, well, gosh, now the whole company is [00:09:00] rowing together.
Tracey Newell: Uh, and I think those cross-functional roles really helped me to understand how [00:09:05] to work with my other teammates to get the best result.
Sydney Sloan: That's a perfect [00:09:10] leeway into our shared connection. Doug Deline, we're definitely going to give him a shout out. [00:09:15] Um, 'cause he was one of the best bosses I ever had as well. Um, [00:09:20] and he shows up in your book. So when you think about Doug, what did you learn [00:09:25] from him about leadership that most people would miss if they were just watching from the [00:09:30] outside?
Sydney Sloan: So you and I both know him very well. I worked for him for four years. I think you even worked for him longer than that. [00:09:35] Like what? What were some of those insights? Do you
Tracey Newell: Yeah, so it, [00:09:40] it, Doug's funny. He's one of the few people I mentioned by name in the book. And the reason why that [00:09:45] happened is I wrote the book and I had an anonymized everyone except for the, [00:09:50] the women rock stars that I, I called out and uh, after [00:09:55] writing the book, I called Doug and I said, you know, I have to tell you, you are all over this book.
Tracey Newell: [00:10:00] Do you want me to use your name? And he said. Tracy, if you actually think I helped [00:10:05] you, please yes. Use my name. And so I got that cleared on the, on [00:10:10] the, uh, before we published. But, but, um, he was an amazing mentor and a [00:10:15] very funny story. So I was in his office and I was planning to quit Cisco. I was just [00:10:20] frustrated.
Tracey Newell: I felt like the company wasn't going in the right direction. So he was my boss's boss [00:10:25] and running North America, and I showed up in his office for a skip level. [00:10:30] And I was ranting and I was pretty inappropriate. Honestly. I, you know, this is broken and this [00:10:35] is wrong. And they don't get this and not, you know, sales isn't working with marketing and marketing's not working with sales ops and, [00:10:40] you know, and I was ranting and he said, uh, he stopped me and he goes, do you wanna come work for me?[00:10:45]
Tracey Newell: And I said, doing what? And he goes, well, I don't know. The job doesn't really [00:10:50] exist, but you could help me with strategy and, you know, follow me around for six months and then you could, you know, it just helps [00:10:55] me scale in meetings I can't get to. And I, I kind of stopped and paused and [00:11:00] thought, well, I'm gonna quit anyway, so I might as well give this a try.
Tracey Newell: And he followed [00:11:05] through. And, uh, 18 months later, I learned more from him in those [00:11:10] 18 months than I would've in 10 years. Uh, absolutely trained, [00:11:15] changed the trajectory of my career and my family's life. And, um, why? [00:11:20] Because I had access to rooms I would never have had access to. You know, I, I was [00:11:25] only, I don't know, my mid thirties by then, and he truly did empower me, but I worked really [00:11:30] hard to be fair, you know, I worked really hard to get in his head, understand what he was trying to do, and [00:11:35] then to bring the whole company around us together to, you know, [00:11:40] help the company accelerate.
Sydney Sloan: I pulled a quote out of your book, um, that like I underlined [00:11:45] when I was reading it. And, it was after you had worked with him and, [00:11:50] um, you said, I can't believe what we've achieved in the last years and no one [00:11:55] reported to me. And he said, my advice for you is to spend the rest of your [00:12:00] career pretending that no one reports to you.
Sydney Sloan: At the end of the day, they know you're [00:12:05] the boss, but people do things for their reason, not for yours. You, if you can win their [00:12:10] hearts and minds and bring people together in a cohesive strategy, you'll be unstoppable. I, I was [00:12:15] like. Like that is such an empowering piece [00:12:20] of advice because I talk to so many people and I go back to that comment of like, [00:12:25] I had to do the job before I had to be able to know and like [00:12:30] micromanage even.
Sydney Sloan: Right? But if they don't, if you act like they don't work for you and you empower them [00:12:35] and get them aligned, so is there a story that you can remember? Where [00:12:40] that happened, you had a big strategic idea. 'cause I think this is a challenge for CMOs. You know, [00:12:45] we, we've grown up generally in the function, probably not across the business like you had [00:12:50] experienced.
Sydney Sloan: And even now with ai, we're being pulled down into the weeds. We're [00:12:55] being expected to do more to, you know, do the agents and have [00:13:00] hands on. And, and a lot of my friends are like, you know, aren't afraid to do it, [00:13:05] but it's. It's different, uh, than leading from the [00:13:10] front. Um, so what, what would your advice be to them, or what's that story that you could [00:13:15] share with us that aligns with Doug's advice?
Tracey Newell: Yeah. So [00:13:20] again, I took that advice to heart. That became my, my leadership style. You know, I, I'm a [00:13:25] big believer in servant leadership. Talking recently to a president of a very large company, and [00:13:30] he said, I don't believe in servant leadership because everyone thinks you have to be nice all the time and you don't get results.
Tracey Newell: And I [00:13:35] said, well, I've never met an executive that can stay in the job for any long period of time. [00:13:40] That doesn't execute well, especially on the Go-To-Market side. Uh, so [00:13:45] I, I have a different perspective. I think you can lead from the front and you can. You [00:13:50] can help serve and make people's jobs easier and more effective while still [00:13:55] expecting, uh, people to do their job and to be outstanding at doing their job.
Tracey Newell: Um, an [00:14:00] example, you know, I called it out in the book back in those times, the number one initiative that. [00:14:05] That, uh, we had was to go build the channel for Cisco. Cisco had a big fulfillment [00:14:10] channel, but there wasn't a ton of value add and everybody in the company was working so [00:14:15] hard to build the channel.
Tracey Newell: The channels team certainly, uh, was losing sleep, but so were the [00:14:20] sales teams. So it was the marketing teams. So it was the channel marketing teams, uh, you know, everybody was working [00:14:25] hard, but we really weren't working collectively together. And so, you know. [00:14:30] Really brought the smartest people in each function that I could find together to say, okay, this is [00:14:35] our charter.
Tracey Newell: We will do this and let's figure out. You know, how can we [00:14:40] work together to go do this, um, as one united team with the [00:14:45] proper metrics in place. Uh, and when we did that, it took us a couple years, but I, I [00:14:50] still think today, I'll hear some of the boards that I'm on. People say, well, our channel's not like Cisco's.
Tracey Newell: And [00:14:55] I always laugh 'cause Cisco didn't, it wasn't always like that, you know, 10 years ago. [00:15:00] But, you know, how does that imply to today's world, Sydnee? I, I think, you know, if you. [00:15:05] Uh, think about, you know, what is every company trying to achieve? You know, for the CMO, the, [00:15:10] it's, everyone's trying to drive top line revenue.
Tracey Newell: Everyone's trying to drive net retention. [00:15:15] Uh, everyone's trying to reduce churn. So picking even one of those [00:15:20] ideas and then getting product marketing demand gen along with a couple of the best sales [00:15:25] VPs, along with a couple of the best cheap customer. Executives, uh, couple the [00:15:30] best scs. I think that, that, especially in tech, scs get left out and they [00:15:35] are the backbone of every company.
Tracey Newell: And they can tell you why people are, are leaving or [00:15:40] joining. And, uh, and, and then say, you know, this is the one thing that I really wanna thread the [00:15:45] needle on. Um, I used to work with the CMO, uh, who I thought. She was [00:15:50] one of the best CMOs I ever worked with. She's super strategic and she, she made the [00:15:55] comment that, um, 'cause I was new and I said, we don't have any, you know, sales and marketing aren't working [00:16:00] together.
Tracey Newell: She got mad. She said, what are you talking about? You know, we have 20 campaigns. And I said, yeah, but I don't know about any of 'em. [00:16:05] So how can I align sales and channels and the scs? Let's just pick [00:16:10] one or two. I don't care which one, and let's get everybody on your team, and everybody on my team and everybody on [00:16:15] customer success, all doing one or two things brilliantly.
Tracey Newell: Around that [00:16:20] campaign. And, and she smiled and she goes, oh yeah, you're talking about the, the sym, you [00:16:25] know how the CMO is really the conductor oftentimes for a company? And I, I kind [00:16:30] of looked at her and she goes, well, no, think about it. Think about a symphony. You've got the, you know, you've got the winds, you've got [00:16:35] the brass sections, you've got the string section.
Tracey Newell: And the conductor isn't playing [00:16:40] music in each of those sections, but he or she is trying to get each of those groups to [00:16:45] work together to play their part. To make beautiful music. And I, I think that's a [00:16:50] great analogy as to what a CMO can do in, [00:16:55] in the right situation because it's hard to be [00:17:00] outstanding.
Tracey Newell: My view in marketing, if you aren't, if you don't have engineering on [00:17:05] board and product management on board, 'cause how do you create brand presence? How do you create [00:17:10] differentiation? How do you create a winning story that sets the company apart? Without those people, [00:17:15] but you also need sales. You need channels, you need the, the, the technical [00:17:20] teams, uh, all aligned as well, um, to get the company's [00:17:25] voice as loud as it can possibly be.
Sydney Sloan: I a hundred percent agree with that. I think [00:17:30] my, like I would say the, the highlight of that was when I was at [00:17:35] SalesLoft and we really did get, get into how do [00:17:40] does marketing champion the customer experience through the entirety and pull that all [00:17:45] together. And that's where you can get marketing and sales and product in [00:17:50] product experiences that drive adoption, the community and, and, [00:17:55] and all of us.
Sydney Sloan: Telling one story consistently, showing up to the [00:18:00] customer consistently is the same company. We're all brand ambassadors, is what we called [00:18:05] ourselves. And like when that happened, that was magic. Um, and [00:18:10] I, I'm encouraging CMOs all size companies right now. It's a time [00:18:15] where we can go back and do that because AI is changing everything in the way that.
Sydney Sloan: [00:18:20] Buyers are doing their research and learning the products. I mean, like you just look at today's products, people will go to ChatGPT [00:18:25] PT, ask it to do something, take that code, dump it into another technology, like [00:18:30] it's just not the same. And so we have to reimagine what that is and [00:18:35] then say, now how do we.
Sydney Sloan: You know, build a relationship with our user in a [00:18:40] way that's meaningful for them when the way they work has completely changed. So [00:18:45] definitely a fan of the champ championing the customer experience at right now as, as it's being a [00:18:50] hundred percent reimagined. Um, I have one more question. I know that John has one too.[00:18:55]
Sydney Sloan: Um, so I will, um, switch hats a little bit from, from leadership and, [00:19:00] uh, like I think you're what, on four or five boards right now? Is that right?
Tracey Newell: Yeah, I'm seeing on five boards. Yeah.
Sydney Sloan: [00:19:05] Five boards. Okay. Um, and active, I remember your story. She's an active board [00:19:10] member. Um, if they want you to be, I remember you saying that too.
Sydney Sloan: Um, so what are the, um, [00:19:15] what would be the signals from the board's perspective in thinking in these like [00:19:20] large, more public companies that the company is creating the [00:19:25] market? Like either like. Already leading or disrupting new [00:19:30] markets. What advice would you have for the CMO on the artifacts or [00:19:35] decisions or how they can own that story in the boardroom around [00:19:40] market leadership or if they're trying to like take over a market, like have you seen that done?
Sydney Sloan: Well, [00:19:45] I think that of as a strategic thing, which is why I'm asking.
Tracey Newell: for for [00:19:50] sure. I, I've seen it as an operator and I've seen it as a board member and, you know, I, [00:19:55] I think what. It's always funny when you're in it, you know, when you're in the, [00:20:00] the middle of a market transformation, a category change because you don't always [00:20:05] recognize the signs when you're in it.
Tracey Newell: But in hindsight, looking back, um, [00:20:10] you know, I, I always say, you know, you can tell when things are changing because the [00:20:15] company's almost built a better mousetrap. They've changed the way things are done, and so a [00:20:20] problem existed. And people were so used to the problem, they didn't think there was a [00:20:25] better solution until a new company comes along that out innovates and creates [00:20:30] market change.
Tracey Newell: And, and you know, one of the ways you know that [00:20:35] you're out in front and you've got a bit of a lead is at first you don't have a [00:20:40] lot of competition. I mean, there's always competition. And I, I am a big believer as leaders, we should [00:20:45] always be humble and we should always be paranoid. But when you're winning more than your fair [00:20:50] share and your competitors are coming up behind you, but you've got 99 [00:20:55] reasons as to why you're superior and they really can't touch that other than to behalf of your [00:21:00] price.
Tracey Newell: Um, to me that's a sign that you are leading in a brand new [00:21:05] category. Uh, and also cha changing buying centers is also a common sign. I can remember [00:21:10] when we were at Proofpoint, um, it was an email security company. We were a hundred million at the time. [00:21:15] Uh, it was pretty commoditized. And our buying center was the, uh, the IT team in charge [00:21:20] of exchange, 'cause it was email security.
Tracey Newell: So security came second and we wanted to get [00:21:25] to the ciso. And the CISO was saying, the chief security officer was saying, you know, sorry, I can't help you. That's not my [00:21:30] budget. It's not my problem. And, you know, we redefined the product. Uh, uh, [00:21:35] we redefined our brand and, uh, started calling ourself a security company first.[00:21:40]
Tracey Newell: Uh, ransomware became a really big problem at the time when we had a product. We were the only ones [00:21:45] in email security that had a ransomware solution. And we also were, we [00:21:50] persevered in really going after the chief security officer. And so we made our way into that [00:21:55] office. And what changed? Is who owned the budget.
Tracey Newell: So it didn't happen overnight, [00:22:00] but suddenly that budget switched to security and it became much larger. And that's [00:22:05] another sign that the category is changing. And so, um, how can [00:22:10] CMOs think about, what are a couple of artifacts that you might think about is, um, [00:22:15] I would be asking in the boardroom or on the op operating team, you [00:22:20] know, what is, what is the.
Tracey Newell: The story. What is your why? Like I [00:22:25] wanna have such good clarity on why we are different [00:22:30] and why we're unique and that narrative. I love Simon Sin Sinek's book of start with why. [00:22:35] Um. I think that's really important and, and a, a very simple [00:22:40] thing to do is when you get your story right, and to me, the whole company has to come together to get the story [00:22:45] right.
Tracey Newell: You know, the best individual contributors along with the ELT, need to all agree. Like, this is why we're [00:22:50] amazing. Um, a fun thing to do. Uh, we did pitch Perfect at Proofpoint when we [00:22:55] were, I don't know, 150 million and we, we did a, made a contest. Everybody in the company had to do two [00:23:00] to three minutes on why.
Tracey Newell: Why we're amazing, you know, and the CEO and I and all [00:23:05] the ELT members, you know, did our videos, but it was so fun. Like people started [00:23:10] bringing their Girl Scout troops talking about Proofpoint and the water polo team is talking about Proofpoint, like [00:23:15] the amount of energy we got from getting the story right, uh, was really important.[00:23:20]
Tracey Newell: Um. You know, just having clarity around the ICPI, I see a lot of companies that, [00:23:25] you know, they, they say, Hey, I can sell the 20 buying centers. It's so awesome. And I, I am like, okay, yeah, [00:23:30] that's, that's great, but it's bad because how in the world can the Go-To-Market team. [00:23:35] Focus, they can't. And so just getting real clarity, uh, when [00:23:40] I, again, I'll use Proofpoint, Informatica was the same too.
Tracey Newell: We, we chose a persona that we were gonna go [00:23:45] after and everything that we did around Go-To-Market strategy, around mergers, [00:23:50] acquisitions, everything was, can we stay in that office? You know, when you're 20 [00:23:55] billion, 30 billion, you can have lots of specialists and overlays and all this. Yeah, that's a different conversation.
Tracey Newell: But in [00:24:00] the, in the early days of the company, the more you can get intentional on, we wanna [00:24:05] own the office of X, the office of the ciso, the CFO, the CDO, [00:24:10] um, I think that really helps the whole company to win. Um, and then on metrics, [00:24:15] keeping it simple, I, I think, you know, you get the company aligned around a handful of [00:24:20] metrics.
Tracey Newell: Uh, that will scale with the company. I think that's really important too, so that we can see that [00:24:25] we're making progress.
Jon Miller: Tracy, thank you for, for joining us so much, and I, I [00:24:30] completely agree with your point about getting the company aligned around this, the core message and differentiation in [00:24:35] ICP. Um, I wanna dive into the metrics a little bit more if I can. Um, I think a lot. [00:24:40] The CMOs today struggle with credibility, struggle [00:24:45] with, you know, being perceived as too tactical.
Jon Miller: And I, I think part of the problem is because [00:24:50] oftentimes the, the metrics that they've been using are kind of too, too much [00:24:55] based on activity, you know, kind of too tactical. What, you know, what, what do you recommend for A [00:25:00] CMO who maybe is in a company where, you know, where they don't necessarily see the [00:25:05] value that marketing can bring on the strategic level, how, how do they change the [00:25:10] narrative? What, you know, how do they prove their value? Where have you seen that work? Well.
Tracey Newell: [00:25:15] Yeah, sure. I, I, a pet peeve of mine, if I may, [00:25:20] is, you know, we've all seen it, it, you know, the, especially if the company isn't [00:25:25] hitting their growth goals, as you walk into an executive, you know, QBR [00:25:30] and, you know, sales is missing and professional services is missing, and [00:25:35] engineering doesn't have the money to do what they need to do, and, and the.[00:25:40]
Tracey Newell: The CMO will start high fiving 'cause they're hitting the top of the funnel metrics and, [00:25:45] and everyone gets frustrated 'cause it's not converting. And to me that's a classic error. [00:25:50] I, I would love to see the CMO really start thinking about what are the [00:25:55] strategic objectives of the company. And those are super obvious.
Tracey Newell: You know, it's top line revenue, [00:26:00] it's net retention, um, it's innovation, uh, and how do [00:26:05] you align to that. And so I think today, in today's world. You know, just really [00:26:10] making sure that there's quality metrics around things like. Win rate, you know, [00:26:15] what's going on, uh, for the loss rate, you know, and getting real clarity on why we lose and [00:26:20] when we lose, uh, can we track for, you know, our campaigns, what's most effective and what's [00:26:25] actually tracking to close rates and follow it all the way through the funnel.
Tracey Newell: Uh, [00:26:30] what's going on with pricing, I think is a, pricing is a really strategic discussion that most [00:26:35] companies don't spend a lot of time talking about. And, and, um. Yet, it's such a good lever [00:26:40] for driving top line revenue, uh, and win rates. Uh, and then [00:26:45] expansion. I, I think so often we get really caught up in chasing new logos.
Tracey Newell: 'cause that's an [00:26:50] obvious thing to go chase and we should do that. But in most worlds that I've lived [00:26:55] in, you know, most companies are trying to get. You know, net new revenue 50% through [00:27:00] net new, uh, customers. But 50% through expansion is so much easier to sell to the [00:27:05] installed base. And it's complicated. I'm not in any way saying it's easy to sell the installed base.
Tracey Newell: 'cause most [00:27:10] companies have a data problem, you know, and they have a hard time understanding who are their [00:27:15] customers and what do their customers have. But I would say for A CMO, that's critical [00:27:20] because that's one of the easiest levers. To really get clarity on and [00:27:25] um, and have programs around how to drive expansion and net retention
Jon Miller: I mean, one of the [00:27:30] challenges is not everything in marketing is measurable. So, you know, you [00:27:35] especially, you know, is, you know, brand and how's it landing in the marketplace and [00:27:40] some of these like softer things. What have you seen CMOs do to, you know, well [00:27:45] around that kind of problem?
Tracey Newell: Yeah, so I, I, I, I feel like the world has [00:27:50] moved away and should move away from justifying why marketing's important. I, I, you [00:27:55] know, I, I can remember where we measured how many touch points we had on a deal. You know, Hey, I [00:28:00] touched this one deal 32 times. And in a, in a world where sales and marketing [00:28:05] and customer success are tied at the hip, to me that.
Tracey Newell: That's just [00:28:10] obvious. You know, I don't feel like that's what we need to measure, but it, it, it is helpful, [00:28:15] uh, to measure what, you know, I ran these 20 [00:28:20] campaigns and here's what actually happened throughout the process and what converted and what was the [00:28:25] time to value. Uh, and when you can start doing that, it's so much easier for marketing to [00:28:30] ask for more budget.
Tracey Newell: I, I always have a lot of empathy for the cmmo 'cause it's the, because they are [00:28:35] the only ones with. You know, the highest variable variability in their budget. You know, it's easy to come [00:28:40] asking for that money at, you know, when a new quarter starts. Uh, and yet I don't think [00:28:45] that's the right answer for a company.
Tracey Newell: But the, the better and tighter you can get on a clarity of [00:28:50] metrics. If, if you give me a dollar if's, how many dollars I can get in return for [00:28:55] that, uh, the easier it is for sales and marketing to come together and, and demand that, you know, you, you [00:29:00] get those budgets right.
Sydney Sloan: One of the trends that's happening right now is that, you [00:29:05] know, everybody's web traffic is down because people are going to the LLMs, but the, [00:29:10] uh, the actual people who are coming to you are much more highly qualified. [00:29:15] And so a lot of the. The adv, the, the [00:29:20] opportunity now is to actually think about how do we convert more of that?
Sydney Sloan: How do we [00:29:25] speed up processes? 'cause that's what customers are looking for in that process with [00:29:30] sales. And so from that partnership perspective, there's the campaigns itself, but [00:29:35] there's the partnership of marketing and sales on accelerating or, you know, [00:29:40] increasing the conversion rates between stage two and stage three or stage four and [00:29:45] stage five.
Sydney Sloan: I know you were on boards now, but maybe you hear stories or back in the days when [00:29:50] you were, you know, running the sales teams, like did you see certain [00:29:55] strategies in place where that was the focus? Um, and what kinds [00:30:00] of things did they do, uh, to help that in that partnership of like [00:30:05] all the deals in motion now, how can marketing help sales? too
Tracey Newell: Yeah, so I, [00:30:10] I've always believed in quality over quantity. I think. The quantity game is a, a long [00:30:15] road to a small house, right? It's, it's so much easier to
Sydney Sloan: That's a Doug stay that says.
Tracey Newell: [00:30:20] Yeah, it probably is a Doug statement, but, but you know, especially if you're selling the [00:30:25] enterprise in the mid-market and SMB, it's different where quantity matters a lot and predictability [00:30:30] matters a lot.
Tracey Newell: But what matters more to me, to your point, is the conversion rates. And, [00:30:35] and that's where, you know, all elements of the go-to market team can come together to really work [00:30:40] on what is working. So if we have a campaign to grow through [00:30:45] one of the hyperscalers on their marketplace. Well, what can we do to get that [00:30:50] hyperscaler intimately engaged in working with our sales and marketing team?
Tracey Newell: And I, I would add Sydnee, that's an [00:30:55] area that I see, I would love to see the marketing team spend more time on. You know, in the, in the [00:31:00] world when we were selling hardware, at the risk of aging myself, you know, [00:31:05] there was VARs and VADs for a lot of, a lot of industries. Um, and they still [00:31:10] are. But what is I think changing a lot in the [00:31:15] last decade is the ecosystem play, right?
Tracey Newell: So they may not be [00:31:20] actually selling my product, but gosh, can they influence who is going to buy my product? It [00:31:25] could be through the sis, it could be the hyperscalers it, you know, and it varies by industry, what [00:31:30] your ecosystem looks like. But um marketers can have such huge impact [00:31:35] in working with those entities to do co-branded campaigns, co-branded [00:31:40] workshop, co-branded events, and especially if you are an up and coming [00:31:45] company, your ability to leverage the bigger companies that are working alongside [00:31:50] you. Um, I think that's a huge opportunity and it's missed. So a lot of the demand gen [00:31:55] teams these days are only trying to do demand gen for their current company. And to [00:32:00] partner up with some of these big ecosystem plays to me is so much easier. You can [00:32:05] compound your win rate and compound the number of people you're talking to.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah, I'm smiling and, [00:32:10] and nodding my head because, um, that is one of my plays because I truly [00:32:15] believe that as we think about, and, and I even talk about being a. Chief market officer, not [00:32:20] marketing. Like if you really understand the market, the technologies and partners in that [00:32:25] ecosystem that serve that, that customer and go partner with them.
Sydney Sloan: Like [00:32:30] understand, you know, be very clear where your swim lane is. So there's not like gray areas of [00:32:35] competition, but it's a one plus one equals five equation when you can [00:32:40] go together. When you have multiple people telling that story, not just your own [00:32:45] teams and, and you can create differentiation through [00:32:50] specific integrations or specific, you know, services packs or whatever it [00:32:55] is, that then gets you not only on the short list, but gets you the reason why they have to [00:33:00] go with you and they can't go with somebody else.
Sydney Sloan: So I'm a huge, huge fan of that. And I've [00:33:05] actually run alliances a couple of times. I think that's a natural way to extend [00:33:10] our strategic input, is actually can marketing own, uh, the partnership and [00:33:15] ecosystem. It's part of the Go-To-Market, um, that is nicely aligned if you do it [00:33:20] well. Um, so that definitely something for the CMOs out there to think about,
Tracey Newell: I just wanna underscore that 'cause I have [00:33:25] worked with a number of CMOs where the, you know, the CEO's leading from the front and he or [00:33:30] she has a relationship with the CEO of a Fortune 500 that they're [00:33:35] whining and dining and there's synergy. And so we go and we create products. [00:33:40] Synergies, which is expensive.
Tracey Newell: You know, that's a lot of man hours that we could be doing something [00:33:45] else, you know, spending our time on something else. And we go create product strategies and then [00:33:50] hopefully the sales guy or gal gets to know somebody in the sales org of that team. And I'll ask the CMO, [00:33:55] what are you doing around this partnership?
Tracey Newell: You know, your partnership with Microsoft or with [00:34:00] Google, or with SAP or with Oracle, you know, whatever that partnership is. And the CMO will say, well, I [00:34:05] don't know. I'm not really engaged. And it's like, what? So, you know, we all need to go meet [00:34:10] our peers and, and if sales doesn't have sales, then shame on them.
Tracey Newell: 'cause that's, [00:34:15] nothing's gonna happen if the salespeople don't start to get to know each other. But, uh, marketing's the same and we can ride the [00:34:20] coattails of these partners, uh, that we have. And our brand message can be much, much [00:34:25] louder by leveraging these other companies.
Sydney Sloan: I, um, yes, [00:34:30] yes, yes, yes. Please go out and do that. If they don't, if you don't yet know your top partners, it's also like as [00:34:35] you're sitting in the C-suite, you wanna have strategic partners That is. Part of the exit [00:34:40] strategy. Like, you know, going public is really hard these days. If you can build a [00:34:45] cohesive strategic alliance with two or three potential acquirers, that's another path to [00:34:50] outcome.
Sydney Sloan: Uh, you know, which, which is why we work too. So, um, okay. [00:34:55] My last, my last question and then John's gonna have some fun questions for you, Tracy. Um, you know, going [00:35:00] back, uh, to the concept of a seat at the table and, um. And [00:35:05] now that you look back after everything that you achieved, when you [00:35:10] think back to that 30-year-old who was getting the advice, you know, in 15 years, where do you wanna be?
Sydney Sloan: You [00:35:15] set your goals. Do you, do you feel like the definition of success [00:35:20] has changed now than it was back then? When you, like, look back at it [00:35:25] for a a, a C-suite leader, or for you personally?
Tracey Newell: I don't know if [00:35:30] the definition for the leader has changed. I, I feel as though more. [00:35:35] People earlier in their career are wondering, you know, it's funny, even the title of the book, when I [00:35:40] was trying to come up with the title, I wrote the book and I wrote it through Forbes. And Forbes didn't [00:35:45] like my title, so I wrote the book without the title.
Tracey Newell: And so now I'm trying to come up with the title 'cause the book [00:35:50] is written and I'm kind of in a bit of a panic and I'm looking at all these things around ceilings and [00:35:55] you know, all this. These, you're shattered and those kinds of words. [00:36:00] And I created a focus group of, of women [00:36:05] in their thirties and uh, they all came back very nicely and very politely and said, you know, [00:36:10] that's your issue.
Tracey Newell: It's not my issue. and I said, what do you mean? And they said, well, we don't feel [00:36:15] like anyone's keeping us from getting to the C-suite. Like that was kind of your thing in the eighties. [00:36:20] We are trying to decide should we do it right? Is it worth it? And how much will I have to [00:36:25] give up if I do, you know, can I have a personal life?
Tracey Newell: Have a giant career and [00:36:30] you know, that was a big reason as to why I wrote the book. 'cause I, my answer is an emphatic yes, you can have a ama, [00:36:35] an amazing personal life and you can have an amazing career. And, uh, I just wanna encourage [00:36:40] more men and women to think bigger and broader and, and going for it, reaching your [00:36:45] potential.
Sydney Sloan: My, my lesson being on the other side now, like now I'm an [00:36:50] advisor. Um, and but don't forget yourself in the process. [00:36:55] Is what I tell people now. I used to, I used to say that and like, you know, it takes a village and all those [00:37:00] different pieces, but I, I sacrificed a lot for me [00:37:05] personally in order to have that.
Sydney Sloan: And I think, I think it's still worth it. Like I had a fantastic career, [00:37:10] but now that I actually do have time to do things, have deeper friendships. [00:37:15] Like, I look back and I'm like, huh, you know, could I have taken one less trip and gone to that thing? You [00:37:20] know, like, so I do wonder, uh, in reflection,
Tracey Newell: That's an important part of the message. You [00:37:25] can. You can be an executive and still have a life. You know, you, you [00:37:30] just, you say, Hey, I have a hard stop at four and your hard stop at four, maybe going to a [00:37:35] recital or maybe going to a baseball game. But you can do that. In fact, you have more [00:37:40] control, more power to do that the higher you go.
Tracey Newell: So, you know, put yourself on the map for [00:37:45] sure.
Jon Miller: The example I always use is the airlines. They tell you an event of an emergency. Put your own [00:37:50] mask on first. So you know, some, some, sometimes you gotta take care of yourself to take [00:37:55] care of everybody else.
Tracey Newell: I love that. I might steal that.
Jon Miller: as we're wrapping up here, Tracy, just, what's [00:38:00] something fun about you that, that we should all know?
Tracey Newell: Oh gosh. Something fun about me. [00:38:05] Um. This is why we didn't go into marketing, John. 'cause I, my, my creativity side's [00:38:10] not as good. Um, but no, what's fun about me? Uh, I always [00:38:15] thought that I would be an author when I was a little kid. Um, I was a voracious reader and [00:38:20] I, you couldn't get me outta the library. I don't know if that's cool to say that out loud, but it's true.
Tracey Newell: And, uh, [00:38:25] I thought I'd be an author and then I grew out of that. And, and thought that just doesn't seem [00:38:30] practical and ended up doing what I did with sales and the rest of it. And so the fact that I actually did [00:38:35] get this book written was, was a big milestone for me. And you know, it's, it's kind of a fun [00:38:40] thing for anybody that is getting close to your second chapter.
Tracey Newell: You know, it's not somebody told me it's [00:38:45] not retirement, it's called performant. It's you, you're doing what you prefer to do. [00:38:50] Um, it's kind of fun to think about those things you grew out of, you know, because. [00:38:55] Why did you do that? Let's go back to what you know, makes us happy and doing the things we love.
Jon Miller: [00:39:00] I love that and I love that you got to write your book. That's one of a dream of mine, you know, as well. [00:39:05] Uh, I also thought I was gonna be an astronaut as a kid, so I don't know if that's gonna, you know, pan out, but, but definitely the [00:39:10] book writing. Um, the other fun question I wanna ask you is, we call it What, what's your, your not [00:39:15] your nine to five, but your five to nine Kinda what, what's that kind of core passion that's [00:39:20] outside of work?
Tracey Newell: Yeah, well, I'm still a huge reader. Uh, [00:39:25] I, you know, it's all over my book. I, I was able to raise two daughters [00:39:30] with my husband, uh, who's a saint, and uh, and they keep me [00:39:35] busy still, so I worried a lot when they were young, like, am I ruining them? Are they still gonna talk to me? [00:39:40] Now if I don't talk to him every day, it's kind of a funny day.
Tracey Newell: And, uh, and then I'm [00:39:45] recently become a grandmother, so that makes me feel really old to say out loud, but that's amazing. So, um, but [00:39:50] I have all kinds of passions, passion projects, and I, I would also add, um, [00:39:55] doing work to give back has become a huge passion of mine. So, you know, I'm involved with a couple of [00:40:00] nonprofits and that gives me so much joy
Jon Miller: Those are all great examples of a [00:40:05] preferment, I think you called it. Um, yeah. so you, you already gave a [00:40:10] shout out to Doug. Um, anybody else you want to shout out that kind of helped you get to where you are [00:40:15] today? Uh, mentors along the way.
Tracey Newell: Yeah, no. So lucky. I mean, I, I just think [00:40:20] hopefully everybody's got that one or two people, whether it was a coach in sports or [00:40:25] uh. You know, family member, gosh, my dad was certainly my role [00:40:30] model, um, when he was with us. But, uh, I would say the other big shout out, um, my first [00:40:35] sales manager was Sally Shreve, and I was 26 years old.
Tracey Newell: And I talk, tell this story in the book, but [00:40:40] I was failing miserably. And, uh, and I got transferred to her and she was the number one [00:40:45] sales manager in the country at the time for at and t. So there's about 400 of them. And, [00:40:50] and she had been the number one sales manager three or four years in a row. So that's kind of a big deal.
Tracey Newell: And she looked at me [00:40:55] and she said, we're gonna put you on a little plan. Like this is our first meeting. And my, I as [00:41:00] well, I'm like, I'm gonna get fired. You know, it was like the end of the world. And, uh, she, she [00:41:05] saw that, and so she felt bad and so she said, go outside my office and tell me what you see. [00:41:10] And I saw that everybody on our team was on the stack rank, and they were all over [00:41:15] 150%, like literally eight out of 10 people.
Tracey Newell: And so I went back in the office and I repeated that and, [00:41:20] and she says, so what's your goal? And I, I go, well, I, I wanna get to a hundred percent. And she, [00:41:25] she looks at me and she goes, yeah, that's great, but you can't be on my team if you wanna be at a hundred [00:41:30] percent. So go home, think on it, come back tomorrow, tell me what you, what you wanna do.
Tracey Newell: And, uh, so [00:41:35] I, I'm, I may be slow, but I'm not stupid, so I, I. Oh, I slept, came back next [00:41:40] day. I said I'd like to be at 150%. And in my mind, there was no way I was gonna get to a hundred. I was at like [00:41:45] 60% a quota. I would like, I would hear competition and go, oh, I lost again. Like I, it was just [00:41:50] terrible. And, um, she smiled and said, okay, great.
Tracey Newell: Let's do the work. And we, I finished [00:41:55] that year at 180% and she changed my life for sure [00:42:00] because I, that was a lesson that we can achieve anything we want to achieve. If. But it's all about where [00:42:05] we set our sights and if we're willing to do the work and surround ourself with smart people to get things done.
Tracey Newell: So, [00:42:10] you know, huge shout out to Sally Schrem.
Jon Miller: That's a great story to wrap things on. [00:42:15] Thank you so much.
Tracey Newell: Well, thank
Sydney Sloan: set. Set the, set the sites high [00:42:20] for sure. Okay. Um, so folks, this is, uh, the [00:42:25] B2B CMO podcast. You've just heard from Tracy Newell, um, what it's [00:42:30] like to work around the CMO and how to be strategic and how to show up for board. Some [00:42:35] excellent advice in there. Picking strategic [00:42:40] projects and making sure that you care about, uh, the [00:42:45] metrics at a high level.
Sydney Sloan: Don't get into the minutiae. We've said that before, uh, many [00:42:50] times. You know, and, and metrics that you can track over a long period of time. Um, and to [00:42:55] really think about, um, being a true leader and that you can set [00:43:00] audacious goals and go after them and inspire others to achieve those with you. So, [00:43:05] uh, some, some of the lessons that I took away from our conversation, Tracy. Okay. So
Tracey Newell: [00:43:10] you So much for having me.
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