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How do world-class agencies continue to grow profitably and hit their goals, even through the choppy waters and challenges of agency life?
How do leaders like Tiffany Sauder, Marcus Sheridan, Jay Acunzo, Shama Hyder, David C. Baker, Nikole Rose, and Zeb Evans think?
Join Agency Journey host Jakub Grajcar as he interviews agency operators and leaders to share insights, actionable tips, and hilarious stories from the builders who live in the agency trenches.
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All right.
Welcome back to Agency Journey.
This is your host, Gray MacKenzie.
And this week,
I've got the pleasure
of bringing on someone
who now holds the record for,
I think, the longest time span
as a guest on podcast.
Mike Rose
from from a handful of different
things room talking about Mike
you're here journey at Major
Media labs your acquisition
to your work as an author
and what's coming up next.
But welcome to the podcast.
Thanks Gray.
It's great to be on again
after all these years.
I know, so I should have looked it
up, but either end 2015
or I think it actually was in 2015,
it could have been early 2016.
I think you're
the 14th episode of the podcast.
Then I say, and we talk a lot about
you wrote this book,
ROE powers ROI are Why back in 2012.
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Wow, you basta.
You're in the 11th, 11th year
now of the book, which is.
Oh, yeah.
But so we talked a little bit
about that.
We talked about where Mojo was.
I think
you're about 14 people at a time.
And so there's this whole,
like agency growth story.
And then, you know, kind of
culminates, I want to work my way.
We're in media race here and start
and a halfway through the journey
or a little bit more than that
and then work our way back
and work our way forward.
But if we start kind of
with the event that a lot of agency
owners, a lot of listeners
are probably anxious for
at some point in their life,
which is an exit, you were able
you and your wife Nicole were yeah.
To sell the business last year
to a much larger
agency backed by I was a P
capital in in gravity global
and so can we just kind of start
with give folks
the real quick overview of what
what was Mojo Media Labs
and what did the exit look like for
you and Nicole and the team?
Sure.
Well, I'm keeping it real here.
My golden retriever
is rolling around under my feet, so
I'll try not to let that avoid me,
avoid the conversation.
But yeah, it it was it was a
it was a tremendous opportunity,
a life changing opportunity,
honestly, for Nicole and I.
And we we went through the decision
making process
to even decide
to sell like the same decision
making process
we did for everything.
I mean, higher spires clients, you
know, moving, hiring,
I mean, you name it,
we just follow the same process,
which is, you know,
and that was really driven by,
you know, core values.
And, you know, the first thing
it had to be good
for the mojo makers
as we called them.
We we abolished the word employees.
We don't like the word
employee is seen sound subservient.
So we we number one,
had to be good for the mojo makers.
And number two,
it had to be good for the clients.
And then we felt that
if it was always good for the mojo
makers,
was always good for the clients,
and it would be good
for my Nicole and myself
and that was the same decision
making process.
I think it's just habit that we go
through to decide to ultimately,
you know, move on to to exit mojo
and sell to grab to Global
and go through that decision
making process
in order to make sure it was
the right fit for everybody.
How long was the time?
And I don't know.
I don't even know the inside scoop
on like the interest
inbound to you guys or was this a
decision, Hey, we're going to start
building an exit plan.
And obviously you guys
had done a lot to prepare
and which I'd like to talk about
as well,
kind of the work that
that went into getting the agency
in a place where it was
both desirable and,
you know, yeah, the ability to exit
and leave day to day operations.
But how long was the timeframe
between that first touchpoint
with the Gravity Global team
and then actually closing the,
the transaction?
We signed the other like on
January 3rd and
we officially closed on May 12th.
Okay.
So we were January.
Yeah, relatively
speaking. Yeah, I was pretty quick.
It's a
they're based in London, so it's a
it's a London headquartered agency
and we went through
four stages of due diligence
excuse me, for different areas
of due diligence
to include legal tax,
financial, etc..
And so that was, it was,
it was a very we prepared for it.
We are very grateful
to have run a very
tight knit and very well-run agency
in the sense of
we had our stuff together.
So it went it went super smooth.
But to answer your earlier
question is when we decided the
the the bigger decision here was
we actually decided on in 2013,
I was
I won't give you the long story
unless you wanted,
but I came home from an event
one night
after talking to multiple friends
over multiple years
of selling our businesses.
And I came on to Nicole
and I just basically said,
in ten years on May 13th, we're
going to sell Mojo Media Labs.
And that would have been ten years
from 2013 to 2023.
And and she knew the state
of the agency at the time,
which isn't the greatest state, as
we all experience on our journey.
And she basically just kind of
said, you're absolutely insane.
There's no value here.
I mean, what we've created
is a monster and
and our culture wasn't great and,
you know, revenues were okay,
but profits were terrible.
I mean,
it was just in a really bad state.
But I said, listen, I don't know
how we're going to do this,
but that's that's the goal.
That's the ten year plan.
So we decided I decided
and then slowly was able to,
you know, get her on board with it.
But it was just a
it was a mantra for me.
It was just it was a purpose
that I needed to have happen.
And whether I was going
to stay involved or whether I was
going to stay owning the agency
and exit at that time,
or we sell it to the the employees
or we sell it to somebody else.
I mean,
but the objective would be for me
to have a what's next and move on.
And and so
that was a very ambitious goal.
And we've been set
not only the date
and the time,
but also the the number.
And I'm really glad to say that
when we exited
on May 12th, a day before
May 13th,
which was ironically my birthday,
but a year before, a year
earlier as well, and for more
than what
we originally threw out there,
which was just a tremendous
kind of a
realization that, you know,
you can set big goals
and they can be really far
into the future.
But I think it's the
it's the it's the process
of setting that and just
relentlessly figuring out I'm not
going to worry about the House yet.
I'm just going to know that
this will happen in the future.
And I think things just
kind of align when you do that.
Yeah, that's the vision role.
It's a to live as if it becomes.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Congratulations on the sale.
The I want to give
people a little bit of color.
What was the profile of Mojo
at the time and what's the profile
of Gravity Global.
Yeah you know team size primary
services that that kind of stuff.
Sure.
So Mojo evolved over the years.
We had some pretty big
what I call kind of quantum
leaps mojo in the in the early days
and 2011, ten, 11, 12 even we were
we were a project shop.
We were working month to month,
you know, trying to earn revenue
like the best you can from project,
you know, cash flow, if you will,
and just knew
there was a better way.
So the first big quantum leap
for us was to decide
to go inbound
and in obviously go HubSpot.
And, and that was,
that was a big moment for us
and that took us into the B2B
space,
which then over the following
many years,
probably up
to the time we talked in 15 or 16,
we made another kind of our second
big quantum leap,
which was to really go
all in on account based marketing,
which is, in my opinion,
the best strategy you can take
if you're dealing with B2B clients.
And that was another
big quantum leap for us
and that took us even further
and deeper and
and more upscale, if you will,
to that in the B2B world.
And so we were really
we got to be known for that.
And as a result, when we were
looking at the potential buyers
and we were very, very fortunate
to have many at the table
to settle on gravity
because they are the largest
excuse me, the most awarded
B2B agency in the world.
And I think there were totaled
400 awards last year alone.
So it's it's tremendous. And so
we knew they could take our account
based
marketing processes and clients
and we could apply that too much
to already installed clients,
which was a really nice fit for
for both of us, because our team
was completely bought in.
And when I say the first decision
was, is it good for mojo makers?
Was it good for their careers?
Can they advance? Can they grow?
Can they not just grow from where?
From a career perspective now
they can work anywhere in the world
and most likely walk
into a gravity global office,
which is which is tremendous.
It's really nice to be able to
to offer that to them and practice
the skill that we help develop
over time, which is in the account
based marketing strategy space.
That that's awesome.
Why were there so many bidders
for module Media Lab?
So was this a very like process
working with a broker
to go through the exit process,
or was it all in Mount?
What did that look like?
Yeah, this it was
we found a partner
that really specialized
in working in the agency space and
got to understand how Mojo was run
beyond just the digital space,
but how we were run as a business.
It was really important for Nicole
and I over the past
many, many years
to really teach financial literacy
to everybody in the business.
And we wanted them to understand
how we made money,
how we lost money,
how how the business ran right.
And so I say that because
we just we we were
in the digital marketing space.
We just happened to be there,
but we were all business owners.
We could take what we've learned
from running a business and apply
it almost any business.
So the agency was well run from a
business management perspective
and and everybody in the business
was very aligned to how to
produce the most
performance out of the business
from a profitability, from a top
line and bottom line perspective.
And they really like that.
They a lot of the buyers we talked
to just liked how well-run
the business was and how they could
potentially scale that.
And it was almost like intrinsic
value was it was value.
You really can't put a number on,
but there was value there beyond
the typical value
measures of the business to how
they could apply that to now
a much, much larger agency.
Yeah, I think
and I mean, just for listeners
to know, like I've had a chance to,
to see how you run the business
just through
working with with you guys.
Well you still had the agency
and your kind of obsession
with data
and with like
just having transparency around
is this like is there a dashboard
that shows me, you know, where
where are we from growth
perspective, where are we from?
A delivery package or an operations
perspective
is abnormal in the agency's face.
And I wish that every
one of our clients looked like
you had that same drive for, Hey,
I actually want to know how
this is run. But that led to
and you kind of I mean,
you really chipped away
over the years to like,
how do we get a number four? That's
how do we quantify this?
How do we quantify this
and learn on what this what this?
And so like
and so that that's really cool
to hear you say.
Like,
there is a lot of sophistication
there that wasn't
just kind of wrapped up in your
I think the coolest part to me
about the whole story
and way that you in the career
in the firm is
it wasn't
just kind of data hoarding
so that you had numbers
but the transparency side
and teaching members of the team
how to think about and understand
what running a healthy business
looks like.
You really nailed it
at the end there.
And that is the teaching part.
And data is one thing
we we just couldn't get our hands
on enough measurables or data, but
that really wasn't the end goal.
The end goal was to provide
the insights
that the data was telling us right.
And hence the teaching part and,
you know, the insights,
not so much for our clients.
I think too many agency owners
build their agency
for their clients
and they don't build
the agency for themselves
to get the data for themselves,
how to run their agency first,
then to make good client decisions.
So we just try to collect
all that information.
We weren't the best at it.
We just try to learn day to day
and make the best decisions
we could based on the information,
but mostly how to inspire
and empower all the mojo makers
with the information.
Teach them how to get insights
from this information
so they can make the best decisions
for themselves.
Because if you're working in the
in the B2B, particularly space,
but any space, really B2B space
and you whether you're a front
end programmer
or a content creator or visual
designer, whatever you do,
if you know how a business is run,
if you're taught how the business
is being managed,
then you're going to be
a better resource for your clients.
Well, we would say
all the time is we are an expense
on our clients PNL Right.
So first of all, we had to explain
what a PNL was,
a profit loss statement.
We have to explain
what an expense is
and we had to explain
what a variable expense is.
We had to drill down into
what SGMD is and what sales
and marketing expenses are on a
when they got to understand that
how our business ran, how well we
we tried to explain how it ran and
let them make their own decisions.
I was result it put more value
on the the the quality we needed
to deliver for our clients.
So we stayed an expense
there and and be able to just speak
business, talk first and then talk
digital marketing talk second.
Right.
So we're already getting into
one of the key things
that allowed you to achieve your
goal ahead of schedule and
above budget.
Above, above, above target is a
budget is normally not a good word,
but in this case
it generates a billion.
But so that, you know, mode
was not the only business
that you and Nicole have run.
You've
you know, we've talked
a little bit in the past,
so that's another ventures
and cool stuff
that you've been anti
panache preneur for a long time
but what else happened like
paint a picture for us of
if you had to take
these last ten years
from you making that commitment
to actually realizing that
that dream other than the data side
and and training the team like
what are the other check points
that you guys it to have a really
valuable salable asset. Sure
number one I think
it has I mean everybody
kind of purchased
if only I'm
just going to share my opinion but
it the agency can't be run with you
the owner.
I think it's really important
to figure out
how to remove yourself
from the agency.
And I followed my own process
that I kind of created.
But it's it's you know,
we hear all the time
and I hear talk about
you really as an agency owner.
I'm talking about owners here.
You really have to work more on
your business and in your business.
And I see a lot of head shaking and
saying, yeah, I need to do that.
But it's really never been define
what that really means.
And and to me, working in
your business is is the areas
as such subject matter experts
to deliver the work to the client
and I worked very hard
at not getting
pulled into the semi world
which is in the business
and it was really hard
even when we pivoted to
that that second quantum leap
into account based marketing,
it was it's hard for me
not to get up
to be obsessed about something
and not go super deep in it.
But I, I just train myself to
how do I leverage this
and work on the business?
How do I create a strategy,
a business strategy,
not a client strategy?
How do I create a business strategy
around this account
based marketing concept?
And then how to like,
create processes?
Of course,
helping you guys help tremendously
with that, to make that strategy
implementable, you know,
operational within the business.
And and that just kind of
got to be a habit
where I spend probably
0% of my time in the business
and 80% of my time on the business.
And and over time, because I knew
this deadline is looming
nine years, a year, seven years,
six years down, the road, that's
I had to slowly
even take a step further,
working
more strategically on the business
and that then later that
led to working more on the vision.
And to me, vision is is like sound.
It's it's indescribable.
We have to create our own vision,
and that is through our core
values,
our mission and our purpose.
So we worked a lot on the culture,
the business,
and how to communicate that culture
internally and externally.
And, you know, it's exciting to
present Mojo in a
in a presentation.
And for 30 minutes and not even say
what we do, but why we do it.
And that that became
pretty exciting because we even had
people were pitching
apply to work at Mojo
because they just loved the vision,
they love what we were doing,
and that was pretty special.
And, and in over time
I added another aspect
to that ratio to not just work,
get out of working
in your business, work
more on your business,
but and most importantly,
work out of your business.
And and for me,
working out of the business was me
slowly working on my what's next.
So, you know, if you ever
plan to sell your business
or if you ever sell your business,
you're going to get asked this
question and just be ready for.
And that is what's next?
What are you going to do next?
And so I set my what's next
the same day ten years ago.
Then I set the exit
and that was to to really work
on my concept, return on energy
and and be able to, you know,
share that with with other business
owners and key executives.
And and that was my driving force
to not get sucked into the world
when I'm working in it
motivated me to work on
and eventually getting to,
you know, the
as they say, the four hour workweek
where you're basically working 90%,
if you will, out of the business,
10% on the business
and 0% in the business.
And lastly,
I think it was probably more
challenging to work 4 hours a week
than there was 40 hours a week
because there's a
there's a psychological thing like,
do they need me?
I'm not I'm not I'm not giving
enough, I'm not available enough.
I'm am I taking advantage
of this situation?
Are they seeing.
So there's a lot of head and as you
slowly move through this process.
But what we discovered
is that as as this
process was happening,
it was only increasing the value
of the business and I'd like to say
that was intentional,
but it was kind of some unintended
positive consequences in that.
But that's basically how it worked.
That's the real
value because
so many follow up questions.
Let me ask a
one tied to
what you just said about
just kind of your own psychology.
Did you feel like
as you scaled your time down
and down and down in terms of time
that you're working on
or in the business
and you were working
more out of the business,
but knowing that you're running
towards this finish
line of selling the business,
how did you come that
the feeling that, hey,
like the business is fine,
we're okay if I work less and less,
but also I could be
an accelerant here
and we could increase
our valuation.
Every dollar that we generate
in top line revenue or or profit
at least is another six seven
we that we make when we go eggs
at this thing. So
how did you combat that feeling
or the
the desire to kind of optimize
the outcome.
It it was it was all consuming.
I mean, you know,
I think if there's one
we all have three resources.
We invest every day
and that's time, money and effort,
you know, and
we all had the same amount of time.
You know,
money is, I think, quite frankly,
irrelevant to a positive outcome,
whether you have it or you don't
or you
you need it
or you think you need it
or whatever the case may be, it's
it's really the effort.
And, you know, effort is,
you know, the drive, the ambition,
the obsession, the the relentless
pursuit, the persistence.
You know, that
that's that's the effort part
and the effort that went into this.
And to be clear,
it wasn't just ten years ago
wasn't to sell the agency.
It was for me to exit the agency.
And how that looked, I had no idea.
I just knew that
I didn't want to be running
an agency beyond this point
in time in my life.
And we I set the goal
initially because our youngest,
my son Preston,
graduate, it's in May of,
I guess this year in May.
And I really wanted to spend that
that that summer with him
before he goes to college.
So I was like,
if I can exit on May 13th,
that's around the time
he'll graduate. That's my birthday.
I'll spend three months
just hanging out with him
and just kind of really that
that was really kind of the silly
little motivation that I had it.
We can
we can set goals to our head,
but we really have to process goals
with our heart and we always try
to connect the head to the heart.
And again, just kind of a
a repetition thing
that we do is habit.
It's like, how can I create a goal
that touches my heart?
And so the exit was for that.
Honestly, that reason, it wasn't
anything grandiose than that.
And I knew that
I wanted to take our we
to the next level, return
our energy to the next level.
So, you know, the
the psychology behind it really was
how do I exit as an owner?
And I don't think I've ever said
this publicly before, but
I never for
from the have spotters out there
I never got an inbound
certification before
and it was really kind
of a conscious decision
to say that's going to pull me
in quote unquote in the business.
And I would kind of
obviously take it.
I think I could explain
inbound and Abby very, very well.
But I didn't want to take the
certification
because I knew that pulled me in.
I'd rather find the right people.
It was more of a fun on
how find the right people to do the
the how in order
to find the right people
in the world that we live
in, in the agency world.
You had to have an amazing
and have a great culture.
And anything we could bolt on
to have a great culture
was objective to to to do that.
And so, you know,
if you go to my LinkedIn,
you won't find any inbound
certifications
and all this other stuff
I didn't talk to,
I was
I was part of the advisory council.
I was kind of like
part of that process,
but it was more from a visionary
business
strategy perspective than it was
maybe
what it's typically designed for.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily
proud of that per say, but
it was part of the process to say,
I, I want to be, I want to exit
and I want to do it under my terms
and this is my what's next.
And so just kind of
a lot of micro decisions
every single day led up to that
ultimate goal.
Is a great illustration.
That's a really cool.
I feel like there's a lot of those
clichés or principles
or kind of tests
that who really cares
about the practical.
Like,
would it have mattered to you?
Hit your goal if you get certified.
Certainly, yeah.
I think of that as like,
what do I pick up in the morning
when I first wake up
and I grab my phone first
or I go to my Bible first.
That tells
me a lot about, you know,
where
where I am functionally,
right, right now.
Is it wrong
if I grab my phone first?
Like,
no, that does not make necessarily
wrong, but it's an indication
of where my heart
and where my head is at.
And so that's a cool
a really cool illustration.
Important.
I want to go to talk about stage
three,
like what comes next for you.
But last question before
we get there, because this one
I think is probably
maybe not top of mind, but probably
something that comes up anytime
we talk about exits and your
and your long vision for that.
Did you communicate that vision
to your team or when
when and how did you communicate
that vision to your team?
Yeah, when I when I moved to the
when I moved to
the the
where was I'm trying to remember
I call it the, the,
the early ratio.
So the ratio is
oh no it's out on end.
Right.
So the ratio was I started,
I kind of say a joke and started
at zero zero
130%, you know,
I mean like a lot of people are
and I just knew that wasn't
how I wanted to live my life.
And so I set an initial goal
just to have 33, 33, 33,
33% working out of my business
during the 40 hour workweek.
Because if you're trading your time
for money
and you're an agency owner,
you have a job.
Whether you kind of want to
leave it or not, you have a job.
And I didn't want to have a job.
And and I wanted to create jobs 100
to create opportunities
and for other people.
And I knew that wasn't
going to be the case
if I was sitting in their seat.
So when I moved to an 8020 zero,
when I moved to 80%
working out of the business
four days
a week out of the business
and 20% on the business,
which is a full day, by the way,
that's when it was
it was running well.
And I we stress test that over time
to leave for a period of time
and it started a week
and that was two weeks.
And I was like,
things are going well.
And the first time the stress test,
it was a week in Hawaii
and it was like
I came this close to flying home
halfway through it
because it was just
an absolute disaster.
And, and that was around
the 15, 14 timeframe, I believe.
And and so
it started really rocky. But
when everybody
saw me slowly making this progress
and I was very transparent
about this progress,
then they loved it because
it empowered them to make decisions
and they had a decision
making structure,
our values to to, to do that.
And so long as you're making
decisions around the core values,
then I don't care what happens.
You know, you would have
made the right decision
if you if it's not ultimately
a great outcome.
It's an opportunity to learn.
Let's talk about it.
But I never tried to tell people
what to do and that that included,
by the way, the leadership team,
not just me.
So, you know,
we try to empower our leadership
team to have to have people make
their own decisions. And
to do that, you have to be okay
with mediocrity.
People don't like when I say that,
but you have to be okay with that.
You have to be okay with
potentially
really screwing things up.
And but if people
are the right person, you know,
meaning
they're they have the core values
and they're living by your eye,
your vision that you set, then
almost celebrate that,
because I'd rather make
those mistakes early on
and then fix the processes
as a result, get more information
and to make better decisions
and insights from that data to then
keep plugging along. So
that's kind of the process.
But when I got to the 8020 zero,
it was it was
people were just like,
just go, just get out of here,
you know, we don't need you here.
And then I started
interject myself,
then I got sucked in it again
and that was the head trash of me
saying, Oh, they need me.
But it ultimately
got to the point where they did.
And so when we set this plan
in place
to be pretty much 100% out
just before COVID
and when COVID hit, then
I just felt the the need
to be more involved, obviously.
And and we navigated that
super well.
I'm so proud of the team,
how we how we navigated that.
And and as a result, then I
was able to put it in place
just after that.
Yeah, that's really over the year.
I think the point
about tolerating mediocrity
or, you know, some failures along
the way is
really hits home with me.
I found
it's easier for me.
I don't know why, but easier
for me to compartmentalize that in,
you know, coached high school
baseball for a long time
and totally
okay with losing some games
early in the season
to try to get the outcome
that we're shooting
for with the program
or to make a point here,
let somebody fail in a situation
because of kind of a bigger
picture outcome.
And that's easier for me.
I've done
some journaling around this, like
why is that easier for
us than in the business
where it's like,
Oh no, this one
client project is like,
we're two days late
and we need to solve this.
But right now
this is the biggest thing
and get so worked up about that.
But I do think there needs to be
a long term view
as part of that.
And that that's really well said.
One of the one of the things
that we followed was if you get
if you get sucked into that,
if you try to control the outcome
or you try to do the work yourself
or you don't give up control
or you feel like you have control
which you don't,
or you want to do the work
yourself, that's essentially called
a micromanager and and nobody wants
to be micromanaged, obviously.
So we looked at it
as micro mentorship
and and as a micro mentorship
perspective.
It's like,
how do I I'm a coach, right?
And in order to really mentor
somebody,
they have to understand
how to be a great mentee.
And not everybody.
I think most
people want to be mentored, but
they may not know how to be mentor.
So therefore part of the micro
mentorship process is to
help them understand that I'm
not here to do your job for you.
I'm here to coach you
and build your skill set
so you can be the expert to do this
particular role,
this particular role.
And so the micro mentorship
is it's easy to say,
but what's so difficult about
it is leadership and management
are technically very easy.
It's one to many, but
mentorship requires that resource
that we talked about time
and and that's what's so limited.
So mentorship is 1 to 1
and it's hard to mentor,
much less micro mentor
a team of 15 or 20 or 40 people.
But if you put the right
pieces in place, mentorship
becomes working on the business.
So how do you create more time
for people to work
more on the business
and less in the business
and working on your business,
not on your client's business?
And when we started to kind of
look at it
through a different lens, it
we started to
attract the right people who really
wanted to be in that environment.
And that was what was pretty cool.
Yeah, that's awesome.
So what's next?
The question, right?
The big question
that was cool is, you know, I
was able to at least check that box
for a long time ago.
And you know, when officially
published return on energy are
we powers
are why the book and finally Amazon
back in 2012 so you know
I knew that was going to be my
what's next I started jotting down
I have a chemistry background
so I'm a scientist by trade.
So I'm always experimenting
and and testing and retesting
and breaking and fixing
and the methodology.
We're channeling energy methodology
back in 2007
and then published the book in 12.
And when it when it came out,
I was like, that's my what's next?
I don't know when I don't know
how we're going to do this,
but that's what I want
ultimately my legacy
to be from a business perspective.
And, you know,
I'm really proud of it.
It's having published
the book 12 years
or ten years ago and 12
and and it just,
you know, going into the 13th year
or the 11th year, it's
I wouldn't
change a word in the book.
I mean, it's been it's I'm
really proud of it It's it's it's
it's content that's just blessed me
across the board
in so many different areas
and and so that's my what's next
I want to create
I want to take this
and I'm grateful that the business
I I'm not in this position
say five years ago
because five years ago
I would have wrote another book
out of gone out to Speak
and I would have did consulting.
I mean, that's what you do, right?
And it's like my, my,
what I value most is my freedom.
I thought it was financial freedom.
But what I discovered over time
with myself,
that's just more freedom.
And and and that's what I'm is done
the the the why behind
making all decisions moving forward
and therefore it's
not going to be around exclusively
those three things.
It's going to be around
creating digital products
through a learning management
system that we can, you know,
create and deliver.
And I, I am incredibly blessed
to get asked
a lot to kind of consult
and work with people one on one.
And in that
that's just not enough time.
So by creating these online
products, people can take them
and then we can touch
so many more different lives.
And ultimately it's
to energize entrepreneurs,
to ultimately grow their business,
to live a life they love to.
And that's
what's pretty special about it,
because the technology
is really caught up to being able
to deliver the product
in a digital form.
Yeah,
let's
tell people about the workshops
because I think you just ran
one of the first workshops
that you've done around it,
but walk through
what that looks like.
Sure.
So we launched the first set
of workshops last week.
Actually the week of
of February 21st and 22nd
and to to a founding member group.
And it was
I was just really pleased and I'm
I'm my biggest critic so
but I was really pleased
with how it turned out.
There's just a lot of work
that went into it.
I decided to take six months off
after my last year
and to fulfill my goal to spend
time with Preston and whatnot.
But in my family in general, but
in the goal and things like that.
But I needed that time
to just kind of reset and plan
and then hit it really hard
and in November, December.
But I'm really pleased
with how it turned out.
I was in a good state
of to create it.
So the objective is to really help
business owners and key
executives through the process
so that I
and we as a leadership
team went through.
And that is to really come up
with a healthy Louie ratio
using return on energy.
And that is again the ratio of
working out on or in your business.
And that's step one,
which we call the Are We workshop
with an entrepreneur breakthrough,
if you will.
And then that is a
is a prerequisite, if you will,
to what we're building now,
which is the are we masterclass.
That's awesome.
If folks want to check it out,
what's the wish we send?
Yeah.
So if you know for
you know the agency world's
my people so I just love
I love your this this audience
and but send me a personal email
send it to Mike at
return on energy ecom
and I'll I'll make sure you get
a discount code or something
to an upcoming workshop
which is the next one is on
March 24th, I believe. Awesome.
And it's a live online workshop.
When we're sure
we've got that in the show notes
of Aw man, I could ask you so,
so many more questions.
If a few folks who've written books
or some other people to talk to you
because you've had that,
you know, you've fought
through all this stuff
hundreds of times before.
And so the ability to then
articulate and communicate it
is super, super helpful.
So I appreciate
you want to come come back
on, share your story again.
Congratulations again on the
on the exit and on the transition.
And on stage three,
I'm excited to see and follow
your journey as you keep moving.
But but thanks for joining us
today.
Let's do it again in 2028
and see see what we're after.
It's been great great.
And you guys have been
an incredible resource
for us along the journey.
And you see, you know,
couldn't have done a lot of this
without you and your team.
So that very grateful
for that as well.
Yeah, that's awesome. Cool.
All right. Thanks, Mike.
Appreciate it.
Appreciate you.