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Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
How do we raise children who don't just attend church, but who love it, live it, and never leave it? In this special episode, we're honored to welcome His Grace, Bishop Anthony, as we dive into one of the most urgent questions facing Orthodox Christian parents today, which is how do we keep our children close to the church in a world that is constantly pulling them away? With pastoral wisdom, deep spiritual insight, and fatherly care, Bishop Anthony shares timeless guidance for nurturing faith in the home, for building trust with our kids, and leading them gently but firmly on the path of salvation. Whether you're a new parent or a seasoned one, this conversation will strengthen your heart and renew your sense of purpose. Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring timeless wisdom into the chaos of everyday life.
Michelle Moujaes:I'm Michelle Moujaes, and I'm so happy that you're here with us. And before we get started, don't forget, if you want to go deeper, you can download this week's free discussion guide in the show notes, or you can find it at faithtree.org/parenting. This guide is a free gift for you and your family, and it's just an opportunity for you to think more deeply about what we're speaking about today. And once you get it, you can go through the questions in this guide with your spouse or your friends, a godparent, or your community at church, and you'll definitely wanna check it out. Today, we are just thrilled to welcome Bishop Anthony Michaels of the Antiochian Archdiocese to our studio.
Michelle Moujaes:Bishop Anthony has spent fourteen years leading the Midwest Diocese before moving to the West Coast to serve as the spiritual father of the churches in the Diocese of Los Angeles and the West. While he has many theological gifts, Bishop Anthony is especially known for his unique ability to translate the ancient wisdom of the church into messages that are easily understood and applied. And he's been doing this for a really long time. Early in his career as a seminarian, Bishop Anthony was the lead singer of the Orthodox music group, Kerygma, taking the messages of the Bible and the Orthodox faiths and turning them into music for young people everywhere. His grace actually has a special knack for understanding young people, and maybe that's because he had such a vibrant youth himself.
Michelle Moujaes:Here's a fun fact. When Bishop Anthony was in high school, he was the quarterback of his high school football team, the Michigan Red Devils. And he must have had quite a bit of notoriety for his football skills because when the local paper learned that he was becoming a bishop, they actually wrote an article saying that the hometown football star was a Red Devil, but he had switched over to a more holy team. And one more thing I wanna tell you about his grace. It's that he actually was raised by incredible parents, Gertrude and Anthony Michaels, whom he credits with developing his love for the church.
Michelle Moujaes:And we're so glad to learn what did they do and learn from him as he's here with us today to share his wisdom. So, Your Grace, thank you so much for spending time with us today. It's blessing. Me. I love it.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. So I wanna start with your parents because I've heard you say this, and I know the people at least that have spent much time with you know, your love for them was so deep and you often credit them with really helping cement your love for the church. So do you have any pearls of wisdom for them that you'd be willing to share?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:First, I think I'm only a shadow of them. Then when we go to our judgment, it won't be only God who's there. My mom and dad will be sitting there too. And I thought you shall honor your father and your mother, the commandment that goes all the way through time. So even after they fall asleep in the Lord, we're to honor them by our lives.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:And my parents, our house was open to everyone. There were many weeks I wasn't in my own room because people visited relatives. There was always room and warmth. I couldn't have had it better. And when I go to my Lord, I'm gonna only say thank you because I have nothing to complain about, especially in the way I was raised.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:My mother always said, never be a sad priest. If you're close to God, you should always be happy. And my father always said, if you have any doubts about your decisions, don't let them know. Go to sleep with them. They're looking for certainty from you.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Wow. Just a few things, but born and raised that way. My brother and my sister and myself.
Michelle Moujaes:Can you share the story? I heard you tell once the story of your dad noticed all your books on the bookshelf.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Yes. Said son, it's nice to have all those books, but you better take what's written in them and put them in people's hearts or else leave them on the shelves.
Michelle Moujaes:That's so good. That's so good.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I can still hear him telling me that.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh my goodness. Was it was it exciting for them when you pursued, the priesthood and ultimately became
Bishop Anthony Michaels:a My parents are wonderful. They never directed us towards anything. They wanted us to use our gifts in the best way we could. And they would be accepting whatever we did in life as long as it was good and it helped others. So I always wanted to do something that had eternal significance.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I know that may sound philosophical and abstract and conceptual but I thought whatever natural gifts God gave me, I'd like to give them back to him and have people know that they have eternity to keep in mind, not just the temporary pleasures of this life but the eternal purpose of the next life. So I ended up always pursuing spiritual things and that was my direction. They supported whatever I did as long as it was good and my brother and sister as well. And everyone who they came in contact with. I was fortunate.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:They never tried to live their lives through me. They wanted to live my life for others.
Michelle Moujaes:Were there were there practical things that they did to help facilitate that? Like how did you know that your life was to be used for other people? Did they talk about it or was it just expected or
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Well, church is always important even when we didn't have a full time priest in Saint Simon's Church in Ironwood since him in the style of Saint Simon, Zollet actually Saint Sala, Serbia because the Serbian community organized themselves in that church too in those days. But my mother and I and my dad, he could, when he wasn't working, we'd go to church and have the typical service for the people that were there on those Sundays when the priest wasn't there. We always did things that were directed towards our little church and it was only two blocks away so we walked. Beautiful. But then I was a regular who played football, went to school, but I always loved the churches.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I knew it'd be my permanent home. That's our permanent home. We may be in neighborhoods now but somebody's gonna take those houses when we're not there. And when we say memory eternal in the church, that's also home eternal. I had that sense even when I was young.
Michelle Moujaes:So for parents, our audiences mostly made up of young Orthodox parents or or parents that might be inquiring or seeking
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Yes.
Michelle Moujaes:To know more about Orthodoxy. What would you tell them are some basic, guidance, I guess? What what steps can parents take to really cultivate that kind of love, especially if they don't live two blocks away? Is there something that parents can do with with the I mean, we're here in Los Angeles, and you and I have talked about it. It's kind of a beast when you look at Los Angeles traffic.
Michelle Moujaes:So how can we take that kind of feeling that your mom was able to instill in your home when we can't walk to church for the typical service?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:That's such a good question. I'm not sure I have a formula or a model, but as some basic thoughts.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah, sure.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I think people that live in locations that are close to one another within a city atmosphere should get together.
Michelle Moujaes:Like socially or
Bishop Anthony Michaels:socially and even for prayers because they can't walk to the church. I don't know how that would work itself out. But what you really want to do is expose and infuse children with the prayers of the church somehow. So whatever logistics are required, I think have to be looked at and analyzed and practiced, if possible. That's one thing I would do and set a good example at home by the choices you make, because people see a lot more than they hear and they take in a lot more visually than they do audibly because it's more immediate.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:And that's why even social media is so popular because it's so visual. And they also have good podcasts and YouTube channels and things. But there's a lot of visual that augments it and maybe even dominates what you hear. So that's also in the home itself where the first idea of God is found with the idea of the parents to the extent that they have now. They have both mom and dad.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Now we have lived in homes that don't have that. So even if there is a single parent, they must show their love for their children, their love for God, their patience and regularity of teaching and treating, teaching and treating, treating people well and their kids well even when they disapprove of what they may be doing or their friends. They're gonna be defensive if you just tell them what to do but they may be open and receptive when you show them the consequence of what they're doing.
Michelle Moujaes:One of the things that when we were talking about inviting you to join us on this podcast, one of the things that we heard multiple times from people that we loved, and I would love for you to share that with this audience is that you have been known to tell parents either in a sermon or in a speech, that they're probably doing better than they think and that they really cannot, like, just keep going. You don't have to fix everything or have perfect children. It doesn't have to be a situation where they never fall. Start with your heart, start with your inner life, and it will come. And I think that's a beautiful message that sometimes Thank you.
Michelle Moujaes:Don't have don't have that freedom of exhale of knowing like, we're always worried like, did we do it right?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I see my perception of the young ones is very good.
Michelle Moujaes:Is it?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Yes. I'm exposed to the youth and their enthusiasm, vitality, their questions, all of it. They're searching.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:And as long as they're searching and they're not bored of life, most of them aren't. They're just wondering what to do with life. Not that they're bored of it. There's something we can do to be in their life. Maybe not always to be a teacher, but sometimes a cheerleader of who they are.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:And if they didn't fall, they wouldn't have the experience of falling or failing. Without that, how would you even know you're successful in the future? Everything is sort of neutral and diluted. You won't know. So it's not the falling that counts.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:It's having somebody to help you up that counts.
Michelle Moujaes:And
Bishop Anthony Michaels:the kids are they're gonna be okay with that. It's when they're alone, isolated, they don't feel that there's someone who can hear and see them. That's when they get in trouble because they make artificial relationships in the place of non existent relationships. And it's easy to do that now.
Michelle Moujaes:Can I say that back to make sure we understood that? So you're saying that when there are not relationships, young people will go searching for whatever saccharin substitute for a real relationship. But that's probably the unhealthy route.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Artificial relationships aren't the same thing as genuine ones, but they'll seek that if they don't have any. They'll take a substitute rather than something that they don't have. They want something in hand, or I should say something in the heart. You're going to put something there. The best way to help them is to love them.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things, and it never ends. Thirteenth chapter first Corinthians. It's not mine. I didn't think.
Michelle Moujaes:That's awesome. Thank you. Okay. Let me ask you this question then. One of the things that we hear a lot is that for a lot of our young people, there's a real epidemic of loneliness.
Michelle Moujaes:So we hear things about like the anxious generation, which certainly is a thing, but that deep loneliness and the kind of void of relationship that you talked about. What can parents do to kind of help bring our kids into relationships? So many of our young people struggle with being known, right? And you have cancel culture and you have competition and like all of these things and the internet adds all of its flavors to make it more difficult. And for a lot of our parents and and myself included, I have four kids, but sometimes we feel paralyzed.
Michelle Moujaes:What can we do to help facilitate those deep relationships? Do you have any wisdom for parents that want to do that but find it difficult in?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I don't think you can do it for them.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:That's the time they live in. And sometimes the loneliness is self created because they're on the social media all the time and it doesn't last. So those are two things. Also, we really need, as we said before, that idea of silence and loving God first, having prayers at home. The one thing I would say that's a challenge to modern children, especially middle class and affluent children, is they always have to have social support for their personalities.
Michelle Moujaes:Tell me what you mean by that, Santa.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:A lot of friendships around a lot of social gatherings. They're always looking for another group or a way to be within a group. It's nice to be in a social environment, but you should be able to be with yourself too. You should be able to go some days without having to connect with everyone. And that takes strength and courage and.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:A self discovery and interest in your own things. Curiosity with living and studying and producing and in giving. And I was taking from a group. What can I do to help someone who is less fortunate than myself? There was once an experiment of a psychologist who had this patient who was depressed chronically.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:He took her with him because he had to go and visit a hospital where people were struggling with mental illness and he couldn't be every place at once. And this person was a very bright person and they picked up on things. So he said, will you talk to so and so while I'm over here, just visit with them. And that person did that. When they got back in the car to go back to their session, they said, well, I feel good now.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I don't know if I even need a counseling session today because the depression was created by an isolation, by a self centeredness, self absorption. Not that that's always the case but at least in this case it was. So going outside of ourselves to others in need is is a great remedy for loneliness. But we shouldn't be afraid of being alone. Being alone isn't necessarily loneliness.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Mhmm.
Michelle Moujaes:What's the difference?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Being alone, you could still have a vibrant sense of self being with God and knowing you're loved even if you're not with the loved one. Loneliness is feeling like there's no one there and that no one cares. So that's how I would find the difference.
Michelle Moujaes:That's great. That's a perfect way to say it. I want every parent to exhale and knowing that sometimes, well, sometimes we can't fix that. And sometimes it's just presence. Being next to someone, being with someone so that as you said, they can know that they're loved even if they aren't near a loved one.
Michelle Moujaes:That's beautiful.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Sometimes I think now that I'm older, I didn't give myself enough chance to get to know enough people. So I was pursuing my goals, my destiny, which is good. You have to do that for purpose. But we miss a lot of people along the way. Miss a lot of opportunities to make close friends.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Because sometimes we have an idea of what kind of friends we would like. What if it's true that God knows better than we do and brings people to our life that we don't immediately connect with but who will eventually be the best friends we could have. Because we live in a culture where we're attracted to certain people and it becomes an easy friendship, we do that. Then it's also easy to leave it sometimes. Whereas it's better really to know the people you're with and not miss those opportunities if they come along by being too busy.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Our busyness should be our blessedness.
Michelle Moujaes:Tell me about that. What do you mean?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Well, we're always planning the future by missing the present or dreaming about our past that we wish it would have been this way. And so we're in the present anticipating our future and we think it's gonna be this way. But what about the way we're in now? I think we miss that sometimes.
Michelle Moujaes:It feels sometimes I am definitely guilty of this, where I feel swept up in if I don't plan. Right? So if I'm not doing the things to provide for the future, I'm gonna get to the future and I'm in big trouble because I didn't do all the work. It's kind of like homework. You're not gonna pass the test if you don't do all your homework.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:That's true. But we can't be obsessed with that future.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:We have to have sort of balance. Right. This is now and even the Lord puts things in our way
Michelle Moujaes:to slow us down.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:And we get frustrated with that. I was gonna do this, but now I have to do this because it comes in and it's more important at the moment than the plan. We have to balance that, I think. Yeah. I think it was overbalanced for the future myself.
Michelle Moujaes:That's really good. When those things come into play and you're getting that nudge to slow down, how do you decipher that that's from the Lord?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Well, it's pretty obvious most of the time. It just intrudes upon you and you have to do it. I think that's more of the case than not. If it's subtle, you'll miss it.
Michelle Moujaes:I have
Bishop Anthony Michaels:to. Too. You'll still be planning for the future.
Michelle Moujaes:But
Bishop Anthony Michaels:sometimes it can't be subtle. And the Lord will make sure of that. He'll give you that option. And even if you don't see it, he'll give you another try at it. The Lord doesn't stop.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:He appreciates the fact that we're planning, but you have to do it more incrementally than spontaneously, I would say.
Michelle Moujaes:We've had discussions about keeping our children close to the church, which most of the people listening to this podcast really are trying to pursue a life in Christ and a life in in his church and community. We have all sorts of different ways that parents like to talk about doing that. And so, for example, we've had some people write in and say things like, I really want my children to kind of make the faith their faith. They can't borrow the faith from us, which we definitely believe. But then we also have parents, and I probably would fall into this camp of while they're in my house, we're gonna try and indoctrinate them to know the blessedness of living a life in Christ so that when they're on their own, it's just natural to them to participate in that.
Michelle Moujaes:Do you have any wisdom on kind of the balance of that? Because both really feel to be true. Mhmm.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Both are true.
Michelle Moujaes:You both are true. So how can we how can we, as parents, kind of create a lifestyle that does honor both?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:That lifestyle will be general in the way you are. So if a person is more on the intense end, the kids will know it anyway.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right. That's right. Fair.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:And they will be happy with that because that's their spouse. That's their parents. That's their whatever they are. And if you were any different, they'd wonder.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Where's mom?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:To be honest, I'm not saying that's you. But whoever. Intense. And then they'll love that in their own way, and they will be able to balance that out themselves. But then the challenge to the parent will be don't try to put them in the box of your expectation.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:But allow them to open the doors and put some air in and be themselves.
Michelle Moujaes:So I'm gonna push on that. Is that okay? Does that mean if they're like not feeling it, don't wanna go today to church, let's say?
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I don't know. Would tend to be on the intense side on that.
Michelle Moujaes:On that. So there are things just to get practical that, like, this is what our family does. Right. Church attendance is one of them. Daily prayer is one of them.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:And then I guess some kids would push it for their own reasons at times, then the parents would have to be real sensitive to that. Also, child is different. I mean, that could be a cliche. Each parent, each child is different, but they are.
Michelle Moujaes:They
Bishop Anthony Michaels:are. Even in their souls and in their personalities are unique gifts. They're different. They have a variance of strengths and weaknesses that vacillate even in themselves. But some have a better capacity to concentrate on spiritual things.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Parents need to know which children have more needs or structures they need to have a spiritual experience than others in their own family.
Michelle Moujaes:That's great.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Without judging one as being superior than the other.
Michelle Moujaes:That's great. That's great. Your grace. Even with their own the virtues, Right? Some kids have more joy just naturally.
Michelle Moujaes:Some kids have more humility or even with passions. We know that. That's really good. I like it.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:I think you parents know that instinctively. You'll spend more time with the people that need more help. You'll do it intuitively. Sometimes the kids that aren't getting that amount of attention will wonder, well, you've already decided they're okay on that end. And you may have to tell them why.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:But such and such a person needs a little more coaxing, a little more forgiveness, all kinds of things.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. I actually have never really thought about, you know, we always say all of our kids are different and everyone has different learning needs. And we look at every kid every year to see what, you know, school looks like.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Even spiritual needs they have different.
Michelle Moujaes:But spiritual needs. I wouldn't have thought that. That's great. Well, are there any other pearls of wisdom that you'd like to share before we I like to
Bishop Anthony Michaels:thank the parents for being parents and taking care of their little ones. Once there was a lady in line for the dismissal. She had three little ones all kiss the cross, everything was perfect. But she apologized to me, she said because she was ten minutes late. And I said you weren't late.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:God saw you coming before you got through the door. And the fact that these little ones are here means that God doesn't live in the kind of time that has a past, present, and future. You're always present before the Lord. Because I wanted I didn't wanna give her one more thing to be worried about with that week. People are have too many obligations.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:So let's give them a celebration rather than an obligation.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Love it. Have to say.
Michelle Moujaes:Well, your grace, we could not be more thankful that you took your time to come in and sit with us and to share your experience. And we're very thankful.
Bishop Anthony Michaels:Thank you.
Michelle Moujaes:Alright. And that'll do it for this week's episode of Orthodox Christian Parenting, where every week, we're here to help you raise children who know Christ, who love him, and who, God willing, spend their whole lives trying to be like him. And listen, if this episode blessed you, would you consider doing us a favor? Would you consider leaving a review or sharing it with a friend? And here's why.
Michelle Moujaes:Because when you do that, the algorithm will go and do its thing, and it ends up letting more families like yours find the show. And please don't forget, if you wanna go deeper, you can download this week's free discussion guide in the show notes or you can find it at faithtree.org/parenting. This guide is a free gift to you and your family and it's just a great opportunity for you to think more deeply about what we learned and talked about today. So you can go through the questions with your spouse or your friends or a godparent or even your community at church. You definitely will want to check it out.
Michelle Moujaes:And God willing, we will see you next time.