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💥 Ignite your company culture with the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast!
We bring together incredible leaders, trailblazing entrepreneurs, and expert visionaries to share the secrets to their success, explore real-world challenges, and reveal what it truly takes to lead with energy, passion, and purpose as a 🌟VIBRANT🌟 Leader.
🎧 Tune in every week as Nicole Greer dives deep with a new inspiring guest, delivering fresh insights and actionable wisdom to elevate your leadership game!
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[00:00:00] Announcer: This is the Build A Vibrant Culture Podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and smarts you need to turn possibility into purpose. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer, interviews leadership and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development. Now, here's your host, a professional speaker, coach and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:34] Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to another episode of the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and I'm the vibrant coach and I have another amazing author on the show today. And word on the street is he's funny. So you're in for a treat. Let me tell you a little bit about Joel Zeff. He creates energy. He's vibrant. His spontaneous humor and vital messages have thrilled audience for more than 25 years. As a national speaker, work culture expert-- don't miss that, he's going to teach us how to build a vibrant culture-- and author and humorist Joel Captivates audiences with the unique blend of hilarious improvisational comedy and essential ideas on work and life. He has shared his experience and insight on collaboration, leadership, change, communication, innovation, fun and passion at more than 2,500 events, and he just released his new book, _Make the Right Choice: Lead with passion, elevate your team and unleash the fun at work. _He has appeared on CNBC and featured in the Dallas Morning News and the Houston Chronicle. (He's from Texas!) and the Kansas City Star. That's where he went to college. We just found out about that, and his son is going to go to his alma mater. So everything is working out in his life and many other media outlets. Joel, I'm so glad you're here.
[00:01:49] Joel Zeff: Wow. That was a fantastic introduction. I don't even know if we need to do the podcast. I think we're good. I think we've covered everything.
[00:01:56] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Well, I know they're already in love with you, listening to all those good things. Yeah. So I, you know, I'm just so glad you're here and I'm glad that I've got a culture expert on the show. Um, and I love your book. I love your book, _Make the Right Choice_. Um, and gosh, leading with passion is it, it's not that hard. What do you think?
[00:02:15] Joel Zeff: I think the good leaders understand that you have to lead with passion and that you have to help the people around you be successful. Usually those are the leaders that bring me in to speak to their teams. I usually don't get calls. I don't, I actually don't get calls from the bad companies. Every once in a while, one slips through and I'm like, who are you people? And you know, immediately too, you know, immediately. I remember, like, I remember one time I was doing a leadership workshop and the, the, uh, CEO or president, whoever the top person was, left as soon as the workshop started. This doesn't apply to me. Why would I stay here with my managers and learn about leadership and teamwork? This, I'm going to go do phone calls in the lobby, and, you know, immediately you're like, why you're, you're doomed. You have no chance. You have no chance.
[00:03:08] Nicole Greer: Yeah, and, and you know, passion is like the leader's heart goes first and we feel his heart or her heart, and then it like ignites our hearts. You know, that's where like vibrant comes from. I, I talk about all the time, Joel, people are like, they get lit from within. You know, like you, you've gotta help them get their internal motivation cooking. And if there's no hello, lead with passion, meaning that the heart, the heart of the leader's not on fire, we're, we're doomed. You're right. Okay, so you have this little thing. Ta-da. And so I love ta-da because first of all, I'll just tell you, when I was a little girl, um, I, I ta-da'd a lot. I was like, yeah, watch me. Ta-da! Yeah.
[00:03:50] Joel Zeff: We all did.
[00:03:50] Nicole Greer: So tell me about ta-da, how that came to be your, like, you know, your tagline or your, your saying.
[00:03:56] Joel Zeff: Yeah. So, you know, when my children were, were younger, they're, they're old now and barely talk to me. Um, although we did, we, no, we did go to the movies last night. They, they, they graced me with a dinner at PF Chang's and a movie last night. So, yeah. Yeah, it was big. It was like royalty. Um, we even got an appetizer, which was Wow. Yeah, I know. It was big, big time. Uh, and so, uh, and, and you know, when they were little, everything they do in their life, everything was a ta-da. You know, they eat a sandwich, you're like, ta-da, you did it buddy. You hate the whole sandwich. You know, they throw a ball, you're like, ta-da. And, and everybody is the same. You know, when their kids are younger. We celebrate everything. Uh, and when we celebrate, we build their confidence. You see it in their, in their body language, they smile, their eyes light up because we're celebrating. We're giving them that positive support and that confidence creates a foundation. It creates that fuel. And whatever we're celebrating, they do more of. They keep going, whether they're trying to walk or trying to use a spoon, whatever we're celebrating.
[00:05:04] And as we get older we stop having, we stop celebrating. We still have moments that deserve celebration. We still have tada moments. We just don't celebrate them. We just think, well, it's just part of our lives. Or, uh, this is how, uh, our day-to-day goes. Why do we need to celebrate this? But we do because it fuels our passion. And when we have that fuel, we're better teammates, we're better communicators, we're better leaders. And so my, uh, my goal, my guiding light is to remind my groups, when I keynote is that we have to celebrate, we have to have these moments, uh, together because that's what really connects us. And before I even start at the beginning of my keynote, I have the whole audience stand up and we do a huge ta-da, we count the three, we do a big ta-da, we think about something great that we've done, that we deserve it. And, and then everybody continues to ta-da the rest of the conference because it, it just, it energizes us.
[00:06:00] Nicole Greer: That's so fantastic. And you know, the thing about it is, is that it's also like scientific in your body. You know, like when you're celebrating, you're up the feeling scale, you're releasing all these good neuropeptides, everybody starts to marinate in what I call good juju. And when people feel good, they work good. It's just a simple thing. But you've laid it out. In Joel's book, he talks about, um, on page two, genius right there already out of the gate. We all work hard and we still need a ta-da because it fulfills our basic needs after food, water, shelter, clothing, wifi, and Netflix. I totally agree. And so he says There's five secrets to ta-da and one is we want to feel appreciated. And so I couldn't agree more.
[00:06:39] Joel Zeff: Yeah. Positive support. Think about, you know, in my keynote, I say, I have a job where I get a round of applause. That's pretty cool. I do my job, I get a round of applause. I don't even have to be great. I can just, I can have an off day and people will still go, well, he was okay, but they're going to they're going to still give me applause. That's pretty awesome. Most people, you know, an accountant, IT, engineer, architect, uh, property manager, uh, you
[00:07:05] Nicole Greer: That's my old gig. Property manager, restaurant manager. Oh, restaurant manager.
[00:07:10] Joel Zeff: I'm sure no one came into the restaurant and went, oh, Nicole, the way you manage, the way you manage the restaurant, that was fabulous. Right? No, but you deserved it. You certainly worked hard. And so because, you know, I have this job that I get a round of applause. I think everybody should have a job where they get a round of applause, and if you don't receive one from somebody else, then you have to give it to yourself. As soon as you show up for work, you just, woo!
[00:07:37] Nicole Greer: Yes. Out of bed! Good job! Showered!
[00:07:40] Joel Zeff: People will look at you strange, but you can just look right back at them, you know, and go, you know, I'm good. But that positive support is again, it's the fuel that just like the ta-da, it fuels us and we have that energy and it fuels our creativity and it fuels our ability to be a great teammate and a communicator and a leader, which makes everyone successful and that positive support is a key ingredient, uh, along with opportunity. And when you put those two things together, it's amazing what people can accomplish.
[00:08:11] Nicole Greer: Okay, so wait, you just slipped something in there.
[00:08:13] Joel Zeff: Did I?
[00:08:14] Nicole Greer: Yes. Appreciation plus an opportunity. So talk about that magical formula that you said right there. Write that down everybody.
[00:08:20] Joel Zeff: Right, right. So I, I use improv games, uh, as a visual tool to talk about these messages, and I invite audience members. They come to the stage. We play an improv game. It's very funny. You never know what's going to happen. And so they're making choices. And these are the same choices that we all make, whatever our job is, again, restaurant manager, property manager, architect, engineer, accountant, IT. I probably, uh, I think there's a few more jobs out there. I think I just I almost got them all. I left two or three out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brewer, we didn't mention brewer. I don't
[00:08:59] Nicole Greer: Oh, Let me, Let me tell you something really cool real quickly about what people do. So last week I was in a room, uh, I have a coach. Every coach should have a coach, or they're a big fat hypocrite. So I've got one. And so I went to go see my coach. And so I, I'm in the room with all these fancy people and, uh, this guy, I'm like, well, what do you do? And he says, oh, I own a sake brewery in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And I was like, no way. I'm going to, I'm going to, uh, a, uh, sushi joint tonight. He's like, I'm pulling up the menu. I'll tell you which one to buy. So, I mean, people have the coolest jobs these days, so even if you're a sake maker, you need to be appreciated. And, and there's probably lots of opportunities. I don't know many sake makers.
[00:09:40] Joel Zeff: Yeah, I, I haven't ran into one yet, but there's, you know, I'm young. Could happen. Who knows.
[00:09:47] Nicole Greer: I could introduce you to my sake maker.
[00:09:49] Joel Zeff: Everybody should have a sake guy, right?
[00:09:52] Nicole Greer: That's right.
[00:09:53] Joel Zeff: Everybody should have one in their phone ready to go. Um, I've got like five Olympians in my phone, but I don't have any sake guys. I need one. I need a sake guy.
[00:10:03] Nicole Greer: All right. I'm going to hook you up.
[00:10:05] Joel Zeff: Yeah. All right. Yeah, I'd love to be hooked up about anything. Um, what were we talking about? Positive support and
[00:10:11] Nicole Greer: We were talking about being appreciated and opportunity because you slipped like a little-- I like formulas. I like little things we can remember. Yeah.
[00:10:18] Joel Zeff: in these improv games, uh, I invite audience volunteers up and they're making choices. And these choices, uh, are again, the same choices that we make to be successful at our work. And I give them the opportunity to be creative, to work together as a team, to listen, to focus, and then the audience gives them positive support. So I'm just showing you visually what happens when you give somebody opportunity and positive support. They're creative. They work together as a team. They're, uh, they're great leaders. They're great communicators. That's what we all want. That's the foundation that we all need no matter what our job is. And if we don't receive opportunity and positive support, we're not very happy. We're we. Turn into Bye-bye people Like, bye-bye. Like I don't care. Bye-bye. And we all meet bye-bye people. Just call customer service. Right?
[00:11:08] Nicole Greer: Yes. Yes.
[00:11:10] Joel Zeff: Like, I haven't seen a bye-bye person in a while. Hang on. Let me call customer service. Oh, I get it. Okay. And, and we want opportunity, right? We want opportunity and what is it? But your opportunity's going to be different than mine. Your opportunity might be, you want a different role, a different responsibility. Um, you want more training, you want the opportunity to come to a conference. You want the opportunity for a mentor, a coach, what you mentioned, you know, it's what's going to fulfill you and make you happy. And then when you match it with positive support, it's really amazing what happens. And that's that magic chemistry will create some very, very special moments.
[00:11:49] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I, I think deep down inside, we all kind of, most of us, there's a few, there's the outliers, um, but most of us want to do better in life. Like even at my age, I get up every morning, I'm like, what could be better today? How could I make life better today? Right? And, um, and what opportunities are out there. I love an opportunity, uh, to grow myself. So I, I don't think that ever stops. It's the human condition. All right, number two, you say, uh, we want to be respected. Giving someone recognition means they're getting respect. So I've got Aretha Franklin in my mind, talk about respect.
[00:12:22] Joel Zeff: Well, that positive support is so powerful and you know, if you don't receive that positive support, if you don't give that appreciation, then there's an emptiness and you're going to fill it with something else. And usually, what you're going to fill it with is negativity, right? They don't appreciate me, they don't care about me. They're, uh, not listening to me. They're not giving me the responsibility, and you're not going to be very happy at, at your work and in that culture. And so you're going to start looking around for something better. And so as leaders, we have to appreciate the people around us because that connects us. And that appreciation is as simple as, here's the challenge. When you go home from work, you think about all the people you come in contact with and you say, did I give the people positive support? Did I appreciate them? Did I say thank you? You did a great job. Way to go on this project. Thanks for listening to me. I said, oh, I was really busy. So tomorrow, 'cause we're thinking about on the way home, let's give that positive support. And I don't care. You can text them, you can email them, you can mail them a letter and wait a week. You can call them up, see them in the hall. It doesn't matter. There's no expiration date on a thank you. Right? A lot of food expires. My wife will throw food like deli meat, like.
[00:13:43] Nicole Greer: Oh, she should.
[00:13:44] Joel Zeff: Yeah. I'm like, what are you doing? I think that's still good. And you're like, no, no, she's, you know?
[00:13:50] Nicole Greer: She's anti salmonella. I'm with her.
[00:13:52] Joel Zeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things can only be in our refrigerator for like two and a half days apparently. And they're just like gone.
[00:13:59] Yeah. Positive support. It doesn't expire. Saying thank you does not expire. It doesn't, no one in the history of man has opened up a letter, a thank you letter and said, well, this is late. I mean, it made me feel great, but it was late, you know, and so we, we have to appreciate, we have to say thank you.
[00:14:19] Nicole Greer: A hundred percent. And, um, so the other three is we want to be recognized, we want to be triumphant, and we want a surprise. I think that last one goes back to the same thing you're saying about ta-da as a child. I mean can you remember like how delighted you were as a kid to be surprised? You know, and think that's the ultimate show of love is, I'm going to all this trouble in the background.
[00:14:41] Joel Zeff: Yeah, I care about you, right? I care about you. And, you know, I emceed an awards program last week. And, um, they gave the award and then they had the, the cold spark, you know, like the sparks.
[00:14:53] Nicole Greer: Oh, so cool.
[00:14:55] Joel Zeff: Yeah, it was, and it was the first time they did it. And that was a surprise. And what it says to the winners is, we put a lot of effort into this. We care about you. This is a big deal. We, uh, we appreciate you, we, uh, recognize you, we respect you. And that surprise creates a moment. It creates a, it creates something special. And, and it stays with you, it sticks with you. And it's important.
[00:15:20] Uh, it's an important part of the ta-da moment.
[00:15:23] Nicole Greer: Yeah. I love what you're saying about that. It made me think of a, a leader that I know here in North Carolina. Her name is Emily, and she oversees leadership development for economic development at, uh, in our community colleges. And she's, she's got birthdays dialed in in terms of surprise. And so like she figures out what people love and she goes absolutely nuts and like decorates their office area. And so last time I was in there was somebody's birthday and they love the show "Friends.". And like you walk in the front of the building and like there's all the Friends characters.
[00:15:55] Joel Zeff: Oh
[00:15:55] Nicole Greer: Yeah.
[00:15:56] You go down the hallway, she's got the couch. I mean like she goes complete. She goes
[00:16:00] Joel Zeff: That's a lot of effort.
[00:16:01] Nicole Greer: Oh my gosh. And like pictures of the fountain and, I mean, just the whole thing. And, uh, and her people know something's going to happen, but they're like, they're, they're like kids. They're like, don't tell me what you're going to do for me. I don't want to know.
[00:16:12] Joel Zeff: Oh, they're very lucky. They're very lucky to have Emily in their life that that does that. That's pretty awesome.
[00:16:17] Nicole Greer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And don't miss this, all you leaders listening. And they work so hard for her.
[00:16:22] Joel Zeff: Of course.
[00:16:23] Nicole Greer: And try to please her. You know, they just can't work hard enough to make her happy.
[00:16:28] Joel Zeff: Yeah. Because she's giving positive support, she's creating opportunity, she's recognizing, uh, their efforts. And, and, and when you create that, it's, it's an amazing chemistry and it's really not that difficult. But you'd be surprised how many leaders don't do that.
[00:16:44] Nicole Greer: Oh yeah. Well, uh, this is their opportunity. We're listening to Joel Zeff, who is talking to about making the right choice and the right choice is to do all these things. So, uh, that's the deal. All right. You have this story in here, the story of losing my job and a magic harmonica.
[00:17:00] Joel Zeff: Oh, you know, actually I have.
[00:17:04] Nicole Greer: Us about the magic harmonica. Do I want to know about the,
[00:17:11] Joel Zeff: Yeah, this is the actual magic harmonica, Nicole. Yeah. And let's see if it, let's see if it sometimes on some of these zooms it, it will, it will drop out the, the harmonica. Let's see. Did you hear the harmonica?
[00:17:25] Nicole Greer: oh.
[00:17:28] Joel Zeff: So I bought this, uh, I don't remember. I bought it in college at a lecture. I'm guessing it was a famous harmonica player that was lecturing sold harmonicas.,
[00:17:37] Nicole Greer: Don't was in college. It's fuzzy.
[00:17:38] Joel Zeff: Yeah. Yeah, it was, and I don't remember, but I bought this harmonica in college and it's a real, I mean, it's legit. It's a, you know, legit, it's not like a cheap harmonica, it's like a legit harmonica. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:51] And so, um, I was working, uh, as a newspaper reporter in Dallas at the Dallas Times Herald. And I just moved to Dallas six months prior, so I'm only in Dallas six months, and I lost my job, so, yeah. So, but here's, here's the story. It's a, and I call it, it's my favorite chapter in the book, the Magic Harmonica Moment, which is the story of losing my job. And, uh, so this happened and, uh, you know, the people on the Titanic did not know they were on the Titanic. They did, they were, you know, they were living the life of luxury except for the, according to the movie except for Leo DiCaprio and the third class passengers.
[00:18:31] Nicole Greer: Right. Rolling around the bottom of the ship.
[00:18:33] Joel Zeff: Right. I was fully aware that I was on the Titanic at the newspaper. And I just didn't know when we were going to hit the iceberg. And, uh, is that too soon? Is that too soon to talk about the Titanic? Is it, is it too, too
[00:18:48] Nicole Greer: No, no, I, my, my, my listeners are advanced.
[00:18:51] Joel Zeff: All right. Okay. So, um, so they call me on Sunday is a terrible job. They call me on Sunday and they say, uh, come clean out your desk. Tomorrow's the last paper. You've lost your job. So I just moved to Dallas. I'm living in a one bedroom apartment. I have no furniture. I have a bed and a couch. And I just lost my job. I was working in Michigan at a newspaper in Michigan, moved to Dallas. And so when I left my apartment, I grabbed this harmonica. Now, I don't often grab my harmonica because one, I don't play the harmonica. And two, I don't have any musical talent. But for some reason, this day that I lost my job, I'm like, oh, I should take my harmonica. And I don't know why. I don't,
[00:19:33] Nicole Greer: it was the spirit.
[00:19:34] Joel Zeff: I really don't know why. If I had a time machine, that would be one of the first days I'd go back. And, uh, I go down to the newspaper and, you know, when you lose your job. Uh, there's a range of emotions. Some people are angry, some people are confused. Some people are sad. Some people are, you know, shocked. And I was elated. I was like, a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.
[00:19:56] Nicole Greer: Woo. I'm off the Titanic.
[00:19:58] Joel Zeff: Yeah, I'm like, I can't, I don't know what's going to happen next, but it's gotta be better than what, what's happening now. So I found myself on the back loading dock. Again, I don't know why I searched this out. I don't remember. I don't know why. And so on the back loading dock was the, uh, the media, um, radio stations, TV stations, the other newspapers covering the demise of the paper. So I kind of looked around. I had my manager harmonica and this is what happened. Uh, see if it's working. It's very early in the morning.
[00:20:31] Sounds pretty good though. But I can do one blues note pretty good. So I was like. I lost my job. I got no money. I just moved here six months ago. They said, come clean out your desk. I got nothing but this harmonica. I lost my job. I got the newspaper blues. Now I've got to look for a new job. I got the newspaper blues, something to that extent. I don't know what the exact words were. So this is not normal behavior when you lose your job.
[00:21:07] Nicole Greer: Don't, don't miss that. Everybody.
[00:21:09] Joel Zeff: No, I recommend it. I recommend it. I recommend it to everybody. Do it. Get yourself a magic harmonica. And so, it was like the movies, like you could see the cameras like go, you know, you could see, you know, they're like, oh my God, this is way better than the person taking the box to his car. This is so much better.
[00:21:34] Nicole Greer: With a tear.
[00:21:36] Joel Zeff: Yeah. With a tear. Yeah. It was very dramatic. And so, uh, so what happened? Somebody grabbed my elbow, Nicole, somebody grabbed my elbow. I don't remember who, who that person was. And they said, you, this is a direct quote. It was like a film noir movie. They said, you will never work in this town again. Direct quote, I remember those words. Someone said that to me. Which is really one of the greatest moments of my life because if you ever had the opportunity where someone says you'll never work in this town again, then you probably did something pretty cool. So, uh, so I had that, somebody said that to me and, uh, they were wrong. I worked in that town plenty of times, and, uh, so later that evening, we're at, um, at a friend's apartment, it's a wake. You know, everybody just lost their job. We're watching the news. Most people didn't know that I did this. And so then the news comes at the local news. And there's me playing the harmonica and everybody in the party, like, like 40 people in the party, just turned around and looked at me like, what did you do? And then we turned it on another station there I was playing the harmonica again to like, to kick off the newscast. And so, uh, it was kind of a big moment. And I always call it the magic harmonica moment and, uh, which you're referring to chapter two.
[00:22:58] Nicole Greer: Yeah.
[00:22:58] Joel Zeff: Let's go to chapter two, which is my favorite chapter.
[00:23:01] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Page 10, 11 and 12 have major bullet points.
[00:23:05] Joel Zeff: Wow. Yeah. And so I, I want to just, I want to just go over what I said in the book because these, uh, in reflection, what did the magic harmonica moment teach me?
[00:23:16] Nicole Greer: Yeah.
[00:23:17] Joel Zeff: It taught me that you have to reduce your stress. You know, losing your job is very stressful and, and you're not going to be at your best. So, you know, it's reducing your stress.
[00:23:26] It's, you know, I talked about creating confidence, um, you know, uh, embracing change and disruption, focusing on the moment, taking a risk. Be who you are, you know, and, and that was me being who I was. And more importantly, I think is choosing your attitude. I didn't choose that I was going to lose my job, that I was going to move to Dallas and then six months later I was going to lose my job. And it was me putting myself out there and being my true self. And what did I do right after that? Well, uh, I started, I started doing standup open mics. I took a workshop at an improv comedy theater. I auditioned, I joined that theater. I fell in love with improv. Um, and all those moments led me to this moment today.
[00:24:11] It led me to my career speaking, and if that moment of that magic harmonica moment doesn't happen, then I don't know if all of these other moments happen. Right. Maybe I continue my career as a journalist, maybe, you know, uh, I, I just keep on going and I don't leave and, you know, I get promoted or I go to another newspaper or a magazine.
[00:24:32] I just keep going, but I lost my job and I had to reset. And, um, so I started doing standup and improv and, and fell in love and, and I got a job at a PR agency, an ad agency to make ends meet. And then one of my PR clients was Texas Instruments. And they said, I know you do improv on the weekends. Can you come do some improv with us before we're having this meeting? And I'm like, okay. And that's how it started. And that again, that magic harmonica moment led to that moment Texas Instruments asking me to, to do improv games, which led me to the light bulb moment of saying I could offer this to other clients. And then 2,500 events later, I'm talking to you, Nicole.
[00:25:17] Nicole Greer: Yeah. This is the pinnacle of your career right now.
[00:25:20] Joel Zeff: Yeah, we're building a Vibrant Culture podcast. This is it. I made it. Ta-da.
[00:25:27] Nicole Greer: Ta-da!
[00:25:27] Joel Zeff: But it's about choosing how you react to change, what your attitude is.
[00:25:32] Nicole Greer: Yeah, which is chapter three. Fun is a choice. Passion is a choice. Happiness is a choice.
[00:25:38] Joel Zeff: Yeah. I didn't control losing my job, but I control how I react to it, and I'm going to be positive. I'm going to be supportive. I'm going to see it as an opportunity. I'm going to embrace the change, embrace the opportunity. If I didn't lose my job, do I go do standup open mics? Do I start taking workshops with an improv group, an audition, I don't know if I have the time to do all that. And all of that led to something else. And so I think you have to choose your attitude. You have to remain confident. You have to reduce your stress. It's not your fault. Be who you are. And I think that's a really, um, powerful, um, attitude.
[00:26:18] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. So, uh, I love your magic harmonica story. What's landing for me is like really you found your mission or purpose in life, you know? Um, and I think sometimes, um, it unfolds in the funnest ways and you know, you're right there with your harmonica. I think that's fantastic.
[00:26:35] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email her at nicole@vibrantculture.com and be sure to check out Nicole's TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com.
[00:27:04] Nicole Greer: All right, now let's talk about choosing fun. So I have leaders a lot of times do this thing where they create a mission statement for work and life. And I know everybody's heard about mission statements and vision statements, and maybe we're all tired of hearing that mess, but you gotta have it. That's what I know. And if you really believe in mission and purpose, uh, it can change things. But one of my personal core values is fun.
[00:27:25] Joel Zeff: I can't tell. I can't, I cannot tell. That's, that's not coming through at all, is it? It must be my, hang on. Can you get closer to the camera?
[00:27:36] Nicole Greer: Well, and you know, nicest compliment somebody said to me one time is you laugh easy.
[00:27:41] Joel Zeff: You're a very good, you're an excellent laugher.
[00:27:43] Nicole Greer: I mean life is hilarious.
[00:27:45] Joel Zeff: You have, you, you have, yes. Yes. I would. I, yes. I'd like to put you in the front row of every one of my performances.
[00:27:56] Nicole Greer: Well, I, I'll send you a contract. Okay. Page 18. Well, actually on page 16, you have a question, which I love, and listen to this question. This is what we call in coaching a powerful question. Why would you choose anything other than fun? That is an excellent question, and you've got a whole list of things on page 18, but I'd love to hear from you, like why choose fun? Because that makes it vibrant. When people are laughing, again, they're swimming in endorphins and all these good things.
[00:28:25] Joel Zeff: You know, I was talking to a group of students recently and I said, um, I said, you know, most of your choices are based on fun right now. I mean, most of your choices when you're young is based on, is this fun? Right? Almost probably 90 to 95% of your choices are based on, is this fun? Am I going to play the sport? Is this fun? Am I going am I going to do student council? Is it fun? Am I going to be in band? Is fun? Am I going to, um, work after school? Is it fun? Most of your choices are based on fun. As we get older, we start making choices that aren't based on fun. They're based on career or family or responsibility or financial obligations, and all of a sudden we start making, and they're little, they're micro decisions, and we make enough of them and we turn around and all of a sudden we're working for a company that we're not passionate about, that we don't believe in, and we're not having fun.
[00:29:25] And we were like, how did we get here? Well, we made a whole bunch of decisions that weren't based on fun, and that's how we got here. And, and so I think we have to evaluate, and, you know, career is a journey and you take lefts and you take rights and sometimes you, you're in the wrong place and you figure that out and you gotta go somewhere else.
[00:29:43] Nicole Greer: That's right.
[00:29:44] Joel Zeff: You know like, I started as a newspaper journalist and then I worked at a PR agency and then I worked at an ad agency and I went on my own doing PR and media, and I did media relations, I did video, uh, production and trade show, and, you know, all of it was kind of finding its way to, to my career now, speaking. But all those, all those stops help create who I am.
[00:30:10] Nicole Greer: That's right. That's exactly right.
[00:30:12] Joel Zeff: You've got to make decisions that are about fun because you have to be in, in energized and inspired and motivated, and it doesn't matter what your career is. Your fun is different than my fun. Um, uh, I have a nephew who's an auto mechanic and he loves being an auto mechanic.
[00:30:36] Nicole Greer: Yeah, tinkering. Taking it apart, getting it back together.
[00:30:38] Joel Zeff: Yeah. That's not fun for me, but that's fun for him. So what is your fun, what is your passion? What do you love to do? What would you do for free? I mean, honestly, uh, he just turned 21. Honestly. Uh, you know, if you said, uh, I want you to go over here and fix cars for free, he would do it. And I think he fixes his dad's car and his family's car for free. But he loves it and he's passionate about it. And, and he's figured that out. And so he has a career now. Uh, and so you figure out what you love to do. You figure out what your fun is and go in that direction. And I promise you something good is in that direction, but you gotta go that way.
[00:31:21] Nicole Greer: Yeah. And, and you do need to like step back and look at it. So, um, you know, in my work when I'm, uh, coaching people, I talk about the, I have this methodology called S.H.I.N.E.™. And so I tell people, you know, the first thing you need to do is self-assess, right? And so I'm going to add that to my, to my list of questions. What are you having fun doing? Right? I mean, 'cause that, that's a big part of it. Um, and there's this, um, practice that I, I learned from this woman, Anne Sterette, and it's a very ancient spiritual practice and it's called the Daily Examen, and you say it like that, examen. But uh, yeah, it comes from this guy named St. Ignatius and I think the guy wanted have fun.
[00:31:58] Joel Zeff: We read a book in Western Civ about St. Ignatius.
[00:32:02] Nicole Greer: And you should read you some St. Ignatius. Mind blowing good stuff. Really good stuff. Anyways, he said, uh, here's what you do every day at the end of the day is you make a column in a small notebook, or you make a note. And on the left hand side you said, what brought me to life today, or what was fun today, or what brought me joy today. And then he says, in the right hand column you say, you write in there. These are the things that stole my joy, you know, made me sad. And he's like, move towards the things on the left side of the page. You know, like, so this is ancient. This is ancient truth. But I mean, I like the way you're talking about it.
[00:32:36] Joel Zeff: Well, you know, if you just focus on what you love to do, you know, uh, I get asked all the time, how come you don't host a podcast? I get asked that all the time and I said, well, I love being, yeah, I love being a guest. 'Cause it's a lot of work. That's why. That doesn't sound like fun to me. It doesn't. Yeah. You know, I love to be a guest. That's fun to be on your show, but to produce a show and to market a show and... no, that does not sound like fun to me. So you have to focus. You might have these opportunities, but what you have to focus on, what you love to do and what you enjoy. And I enjoy being on stage and, and speaking. That's my true love, that's my passion. And so everything else, I, I'm not, I'm not as interested in because it, it doesn't bring me that same joy.
[00:33:31] Nicole Greer: Yeah. And um, we are talking to Joel Zeff, who wrote this amazing book. _Make the Right Choice_. Here it is. Okay. Let's, that's fun. Look at that. That's good. Um, but there's, uh, the, this coach that I said I go see, his name is Dan Sullivan and his troop of coaches. And, uh, he wrote a book called Unique Ability and what, what you said, um, like if you wanted to dive deeper into that, uh, that's a great, that's a great read. All all of my listeners are, are great leaders, uh, reader and leaders.
[00:34:01] Joel Zeff: We can edit that.
[00:34:03] Nicole Greer: Or not, it's kind of fun to leave the mistakes in because, because we're just a bunch of, you know, normal people trying to do a podcast. But in, in that book, he just talks about what you said, um, is like you would do it, uh, absolutely for free and you get in flow. It's his other thing, you know, is that you just like, you could do it for hours and hours and hours. Now, I love these myths you have in the book and I think we have time to go through those and that we're only like three chapters in here. But, um, but I think people have a lot of mental models or thinking, or paradigms or whatever dang words you want to use right there about fun at work. And you have this first myth. Myth number one, we are afraid that fun will interrupt our business.
[00:34:46] Joel Zeff: Yeah.
[00:34:46] Nicole Greer: We don't have time for fun.
[00:34:47] Joel Zeff: No, we're very serious in our manufacturing selling, distributing, creating, engineering, architecting.
[00:34:55] Nicole Greer: of these ball bearings,
[00:34:57] Joel Zeff: Very serious. We can't possibly have fun. Um, yeah. And and fun again is something different for every person. And fun is not just, we're going to have a pizza party and, and
[00:35:08] Nicole Greer: right? No more pizza parties. I'm anti pizza party by the way.
[00:35:11] Joel Zeff: You're anti pizza party. Uh,
[00:35:13] Nicole Greer: Stop.
[00:35:14] Joel Zeff: it's too much.
[00:35:15] Nicole Greer: We could be more creative than that.
[00:35:17] Joel Zeff: Yeah. But, you're right, you're right by the way. And so, you know, it's what is fun? Fun can be being a mentor, fun can be, um, you know, creating a new program, um, making that big sale, uh, overcoming that challenge. Um, solving a problem. You know, fun is something different to all of us.
[00:35:37] What is your fun? What lights you up? But we also have to have fun as a group together because it connects us, it bonds us. There's nothing better than having that energy, that spirit together. Um, and, and there is always time. Because it refuels us and it, it creates, it energizes us. It's inspires us. It's a very important part of work.
[00:36:03] Nicole Greer: Yeah, uh, I have a, I have a gal I work with, her name's Jennifer, and she works in a place that makes hinges and drawer slides. And they make so many of them. It's crazy. Like all day long you're there. You hear Tink, tink, tink, and these hinges are falling into a box. It's just amazing how many hinges they sell. And it's a fantastic company and it's called Blum. Well, Jennifer is a, a crazy runner like marathon, marathon, marathon runner, and, uh, she has created this whole movement where they're not eating pizza, they're running, and so you'll, you'll get there like at 4 45, everybody's standing in the lobby and they got, they're like, these are my new hokas. What do you think? You know, it's a whole shoe show off moment. And then there they go. And it's so fantastic. Yeah.
[00:36:53] Joel Zeff: They created a community, and, and you know, they have fun together. They connect, and what happens is all of that translates into the next time they have a challenge, an obstacle, an issue, because they're going to remember the foundation they built running and having fun together. And so that builds respect and it connects them and it allows them to be successful together. It's, it's, it's very powerful.
[00:37:20] Nicole Greer: Yeah. All right. Now, myth number two you said is we
[00:37:23] Joel Zeff: We're going to of them.
[00:37:24] Nicole Greer: Well, I
[00:37:25] Joel Zeff: going to do all
[00:37:25] Nicole Greer: all. Could we do them all?
[00:37:27] Joel Zeff: Yeah.
[00:37:27] Nicole Greer: Are you, are you game?
[00:37:28] Joel Zeff: It's your podcast.
[00:37:30] Nicole Greer: Well, I mean, I like, I like to hear things in one, two threes and ABCs, formulas and things. Okay.
[00:37:35] Joel Zeff: I've got a lot of those.
[00:37:36] Nicole Greer: All right. So myth number two. We might offend somebody. I hear that all the time too. Oh, he won't like it if we do that. She won't like it if we do that.
[00:37:46] Joel Zeff: You know, fun should be inclusive. It should not exclude. It should be,
[00:37:52] Nicole Greer: Everybody's invited.
[00:37:53] Joel Zeff: Yeah, it should be respectful. And so I think sometimes people, uh, like, oh, we're not going to do that because somebody, you know, we're, we're not going to have an awards program because somebody said something offensive eight years ago. I'm like,
[00:38:09] Nicole Greer: Well we got rid of him!
[00:38:12] Joel Zeff: We can move forward, you know, and, and just as long as we have guidelines. And fun should be, you know, it, it should be inclusive, it should, uh, be respectful and, and I think it's pretty easy to follow those guidelines. Yeah.
[00:38:27] Nicole Greer: I think so too. And, and I mean, and, and like you said, as long as everybody's invited and sometimes people have a too cool for school kind of attitude. Uh, but then once they watch everybody having fun, they're, it's like a magnet, you know? It could draw even the biggest curmudgeon into the, into the scene. You know, if you, if you get a, give it a whirl.
[00:38:45] Joel Zeff: Yeah, the number of scavenger hunts that I've seen at corporate events where the too cool for school people are like, no, I'm not doing this. This is dumb. And then like five minutes later, they're leading the, the pack, you know, because. Here's the thing. Everybody wants to have fun. Everybody wants to play. Sometimes we're not given enough opportunity to do that. And once we are given that opportunity, we want to play, we want to have fun. The scavenger hunt's way better than spending the day, whatever you're doing, manufacturing, distributing, selling, accounting, whatever you are doing. I'd rather have a day doing a scavenger hunt too.
[00:39:23] Nicole Greer: Right, right. Yeah. And, you know, one time I was doing a, a group and that was a very serious crowd. And I said, okay, we're going to play a party game right now. And they were like, what? And I call them party games. So, so anyways, I, I got them into it. We were having so much fun. Everybody's laughing their butts off, we're having a great time, and the leader goes, next time you do this, don't call it a party game. And I said, wait a minute. At first they didn't like it, but then they had a ball, you know, and.
[00:39:53] Joel Zeff: You know, if you called it a team building exercise, then there'd be another group of people who are like, I'm not doing that.
[00:39:59] Nicole Greer: That's right. You can't, you just
[00:40:01] Joel Zeff: So No, no,
[00:40:02] Nicole Greer: Joel?
[00:40:03] Joel Zeff: no.
[00:40:03] Nicole Greer: Alright. And then you already covered, we don't have time to have fun, but we, we do have time. All right. And then this one is so good. But we're not a fun company.
[00:40:12] Joel Zeff: Yeah. We're not, no, we're very serious. If I only
[00:40:17] Nicole Greer: Wow. How's.
[00:40:19] Joel Zeff: I would. Yeah. Yeah. There are companies that are really fun and I don't, you know, and you get it, it's great. But, we all, again, want to have fun. We all want to play. We have to take that time. And when we have fun together, when we have that connection together, it's powerful and it, it creates a bond and it creates respect and it connects us and we appreciate each other.
[00:40:44] And that all goes into a bank and sometimes we have to, sometimes we deposit and sometimes we take a withdrawal. And when we're working on a tough situation, a challenge, an obstacle, sometimes we have to take a withdrawal out of that bank, but we had, we put so much time and effort into creating that connection and respect and it's there, and it helps us find a way to overcome that challenge and to meet that obstacle and, and find success.
[00:41:14] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I've had so many times, uh, where we've been having fun in training and we are, uh, kind of kidding with each other. Right. You know, poking each other and doing stuff where people have come up with nicknames and later on the nickname stuck, but it wasn't derogatory or, or,
[00:41:30] Joel Zeff: Yeah, I love a good
[00:41:31] Nicole Greer: sarcastic.
[00:41:32] Yeah. But it's just like, or, or we we're like, code word, you know.
[00:41:36] Joel Zeff: I love, I love a great, I love a great nickname. I, I'll speak at events and then years later, like, uh, remember that guy, uh, Kit Kat, I go
[00:41:46] Nicole Greer: Yeah.
[00:41:47] Joel Zeff: just, somebody might be in the front row was like eating a Kit Kat. And I just called, I started like maybe calling him Kit Kat and then like, yeah, we still call him Kit Kat.
[00:41:56] Nicole Greer: Yeah. And secretly loves it.
[00:41:59] Joel Zeff: Oh, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? He's Kit Kat.
[00:42:04] Nicole Greer: What a great name.
[00:42:05] Joel Zeff: Yeah, he's Kit Kat. Yeah. I'm big. I love, I love creating nicknames.
[00:42:08] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Alright, so let's finish up this podcast with this great chapter.
[00:42:13] Joel Zeff: We've only gone through three chapters. We got like a lot of, we got a lot to go through.
[00:42:17] Nicole Greer: We might have to have a, a second show. Do you want to do a second show? Okay.
[00:42:20] Joel Zeff: We have to go. We got a lot to go through here.
[00:42:23] Nicole Greer: Yeah, but chapter four,
[00:42:24] Joel Zeff: We're only getting to chapter four. Okay.
[00:42:27] Nicole Greer: Well, I mean, well here's the thing. Here's the thing. We try to go so fast in corporate America. Uh, I'll tell you a funny story. I was working with this group and they bring me in at the mid-manager level 'cause they need work.
[00:42:41] Joel Zeff: Yeah,
[00:42:43] Nicole Greer: We don't want to do it from top down.
[00:42:45] Joel Zeff: No.
[00:42:48] Nicole Greer: That's right. They already know these things. So, so I come in at at the mid-manager level, and those guys and gals, we're like fast friends. We're laughing a lot. Having fun, like you're talking about. Long story short, the upper guys hear about it and they're like, Hey, can you come in? But we want to do everything you did with them, but in half the time.
[00:43:10] Joel Zeff: Yeah, we got, can you do it in 20 minutes?
[00:43:14] Nicole Greer: And I was like, y'all have to slow down. We have to slow down in this life and like learn. You can't learn like this. I don't know about you, but it took me a long time to learn algebra. I'm just saying. It was a thing.
[00:43:26] Joel Zeff: I, I don't think I ever learned. I, I went through two years and, and guess what? And to my algebra teachers, I just want to, um,
[00:43:35] Nicole Greer: say, I'm sorry.
[00:43:36] Joel Zeff: no, I want to say didn't need it. Didn't need it at all. Ms. Moore? Uh, that was my Algebra two. I don't remember my Algebra one.
[00:43:44] Nicole Greer: Oh yeah, there was a one and a two. I forgot that. I think I blocked that out.
[00:43:48] Joel Zeff: Nope. I do. Uh, Ms. Hill. Ms. Hill. 'Cause I took Algebra one in eighth grade. Man, look at that. Yeah, I'd like to talk to right now, Ms. Moore and Ms. Hill, and Mr. Tarver, who, um, who was my geometry teacher, did not need any of it.
[00:44:04] Nicole Greer: Nope.
[00:44:04] Joel Zeff: You wasted my time. Um, didn't need one. There was not one moment in my entire career in life that I needed algebra or geometry. Not one second.
[00:44:19] Nicole Greer: I sense a little anger.
[00:44:21] Joel Zeff: No, I enjoyed, they were very good teachers. They're fantastic teachers, but did not need algebra or geometry. Or Chemistry.
[00:44:28] Nicole Greer: Just, I never really understood letters and numbers in the same equation. But anyway. All right. Chapter four, make the right Choice. Six Sprinkles on the leadership cupcake. All right, so give us the six sprinkles. If I want to, you know, put sprinkles on my cupcake and I'm a leader. I want to decorate my cupcake, the work that we do, what are the six things I need to do?
[00:44:48] Joel Zeff: Wow. It's in the book. Yeah, it's in the book. Uh, right here. Uh, when we talk about great leadership and you know, we want to connect with the team, and in improv there's really one question: how do I help the people around me be successful? People always ask, and for those, for your listeners and your viewers, you know, improv, there's no script, there's no rehearsal, there's no plan. Everything's happening right there. For the first time, and I invite audience volunteers to the stage. We play an improv game to discuss these choices because the volunteers make all these choices. So we're laughing, we're having fun. That's the cool part of my keynote. And then I'm going to say, well, here's the choices they made that allowed them to be successful. These are the same choices that you have to make as leaders and teammates. And I could speak all day about teamwork and leadership. I wrote a whole book and we're only getting through chapter four. So if I could just bring it down to one question: how do I help the people around me be successful? Asking that question, answering it, more importantly, acting on it. And when you act on it, great things happen. And you have to ask, how do I help the people around me be successful? That's what a great leader does. That's the sprinkle on the cupcake, and you have to answer it. You're going to know what people need to be successful if you're present and in the moment, so you can act on it.
[00:46:14] And in the book we talk about engaging and participating.
[00:46:18] Nicole Greer: Yes.
[00:46:19] Joel Zeff: Engaging and, and, and being there for each other. Admitting mistakes, asking questions, avoid trying to make everyone happy, communicating, laughing and having fun. These are all sprinkles on the cupcake and it really, you know, really focuses on being awesome and inspiring. You want your team because if your team is successful, you are going to be successful. And some leaders are: what can all of you do for me? How can all of you help me be successful? That's not great leadership. That's terrible leadership. That's terrible leadership. You've been sold a bill of goods. I'm sorry, that's not great leadership. Great leaders is constantly thinking, how do I help the people around me be successful, the people I'm leading, how do I help them reach their goals and find success? How do I help them be better and be promoted to a, to, to different positions. That's what creates a vibrant culture is if there's a leader helping you be successful. That's, I think, you know, the vibrant culture. That's what a vibrant culture is. It's a, it's a constant living, breathing entity that cares about everybody in that culture. And you want that success. And the things that I talk about, the sprinkles on the cupcake, those are just decisions that help you create that, that vibrant culture.
[00:47:44] Nicole Greer: Yeah. And, and you said the one that, that does not do this, right? Maybe that's chapter five. Beware of the D.A.M.
[00:47:51] Joel Zeff: The dumb ass manager. So
[00:47:56] Nicole Greer: He said it, not me.
[00:47:58] Joel Zeff: Yeah. We all.
[00:48:00] Nicole Greer: would not
[00:48:00] Joel Zeff: We all have had dumb ass managers. We've all had them. We all know we're going to call it the D.A.M. And I actually, I go through several managers like, you know, that we, we've all had them, and you're, and, but you have to realize what you have and get out of there. But I
[00:48:18] Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right.
[00:48:20] Joel Zeff: I promise you, if you're not receiving opportunity and positive support, if you don't have a leader that's helping you be successful. If, if you don't have a leader that's present in the moment, I promise someone across the street wants someone just like you, who's passionate and energized, and wants to give you opportunity and wants to give you positive support and believes in you and wants to, uh, help you find success. I promise you do not have to sit there with that D.A.M.
[00:48:54] Nicole Greer: What's holding you back? That's exactly right.
[00:48:56] Joel Zeff: Because you're not going to be happy and fulfilled, and you're certainly not in a vibrant culture. Right. And the leader probably sees you as replaceable. You know, they're going to use you up and then bring somebody else in and eventually that's not going to work out.
[00:49:10] And there's a history of companies, you know what I mean? Why does this huge company go out of business? Well it doesn't just go out of business because we all stopped using that company. They made decisions and their customers said, no, I'm not going here. Because either they didn't train their employees.
[00:49:31] Nicole Greer: Right.
[00:49:32] Joel Zeff: They didn't train them on customer service. They didn't train them. They didn't care. And so that goes down to the customers. They didn't think about what was happening and make decisions. To create something new to grow and they go out of business
[00:49:47] Nicole Greer: That's right. Well, I'll tell you what they didn't do. They didn't make the right choice. They didn't lead with passion. They didn't elevate their team and they did not unleash fun at work. That's what happened.
[00:49:57] Joel Zeff: Wow. We should take a screenshot.
[00:50:00] Nicole Greer: It's all good. It's all good. All right, Joel Zeff, how can we find you if we want you to come speak at our conference.
[00:50:06] Joel Zeff: I would love to do that. Uh, my website, joelzeff.com, JOELZEFF.com is the perfect way. LinkedIn is a great way to connect with me and for all your listeners and viewers, if you connect with me through, uh, my website, sign up on my email list, send me a note, I will send you a free chapter of my book, the chapter about change, which we did not talk about. I'll send you a free chapter. Cool pDF that you can share, uh, about, uh, embracing change, being open and flexible to change, being prepared for change, and how that helps us find success during change and disruption. Love to send that free chapter to all your listeners and viewers.
[00:50:51] Nicole Greer: Okay, let's do it on the count of three. Ready? Ta ready. 1, 2, 3. Ta-da!
[00:50:58] Joel Zeff: That was
[00:50:59] Nicole Greer: Alright everybody. That was another episode of the Build A Vibrant Culture Podcast. If you'll go down to the bottom right now, it takes a hot second. Say I liked, I love this episode. Leave a little love note for Joel and maybe consider getting the free chapter, or better yet, just go get the whole dang thing. In fact, buy it for everybody on the team. Have a lunch and learn. Call Joel. Let's have some fun. Thanks so much for being on the podcast.
[00:51:22] Joel Zeff: Thank you, Nicole.
[00:51:23] Announcer: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast. If you found value in today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more like-minded listeners. Remember, the journey to building a vibrant culture never stops. Stay inspired, keep nurturing your vibrant culture, and we can't wait to reconnect with you on the next exciting episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast.