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What does it mean to be a T shaped professional, broad in perspective, deep in expertise, and abreast of innovation.
Hosted by Stephen M. Perry, founder and CEO of Kymanox, we unpack ideas that shape the future, build exceptional teams, and create lasting impact. From thought leadership on performance and wellness to insights into modern healthcare, this is your space to think holistically and grow intentionally. Just like the T Shaped professionals who make Kymanox a leader in the life science industry.
Transcript
Voiceover
Welcome to the Orange T, where we explore what it means to be T shaped professionals, broad in perspective, deep in expertise, and abreast of innovation. Hosted by Stephen M. Perry, founder and CEO of Kymanox, we unpack ideas that shape the future, build exceptional teams, and create lasting impact. From thought leadership on performance and wellness to insights into modern healthcare, this is your space to think wholly holistically and grow intentionally. Just like the people who make Kymanox a leader in the life science industry.
Stephen Perry
Welcome. This is the Orange T Podcast. My name is Stephen Perry and I'm the founder and CEO of Kymanox. Today I have with me Josh Perry, and our topic today that we're going to unpack is the whole self. To start, I'd love for Josh to tell the audience how we met.
Josh Perry
How we met was me going out of my comfort zone to do something different. A friend invited me to launch Bio's event in Durham in November 2019, and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing here, but I looked at the list of speakers as someone that's an inspiring speaker. I saw the list. I saw, oh, Perry. Well, that's interesting. I go see that. And I think the title of the talk was about leadership and something else. And so I went. The only one I went and checked out was yours, and then did something different that I also don't do. I waited in line to introduce myself and we got to talking and then connected on LinkedIn. And then I think eight months later, you reached out and here we are now. I mean, there's a lot that happened between then and now, but it really is just me just showing up differently to get a different experience out of life.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And I think I really hit it off with you. And. And soon after we met, we talked about how we could potentially start working together. Soon after we met, the pandemic occurred and Kymenox was in a bind. And we needed to have, like, a really dynamic speaker who could deliver a message over, you know, a zoom environment, which is over video. And so could you talk a little bit about how that kind of got you introduced to Kymanox?
Josh Perry
Yeah, I think the theme that year was be bold. And it's something that I've been practicing. I feel like my whole life is stepping out of the norm and doing things, especially in bmx. It's action sports. It's very bold. But I think reflecting back on that moment, it was the first virtual talk I gave because I'd been on stages a couple years before that, leading up to that moment. And it was different because it was weird seeing little boxes of people. And then here I am, I can see myself as well. And I'm not moving, which on stage, I'm moving all over the place. So I'm, you know, doing all the things. And I think it went really well. I enjoyed it. And I think that, you know, looking back to where we are now, it's really interesting to see how it's progressed and getting to meet the people that were on the zoom. They get to, you know, hear me share about my story and all the things and then start forming some relationship with them.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And I think that really moved our team. And people today still talk about that address that you made to our team. Really some long lasting messages that I think are valuable for your whole lifetime that actually inspired me to engage you in a one on one kind of coaching agreement. And I've been described as uncoachable. So we got to know each other that way. Also as part of your just friendship and professional relationship with myself. And then now the company, I got to learn a lot about you as a person and your background and your story. I thought it'd be nice just to kind of give a high level summary of that story. The story of Josh Perry. Yeah.
Josh Perry
So as you usually say, I'm an alien. I did not come from outer space. But sometimes it feels like that when I'm in my own head and trying to understand other people and how the world works and how I show up. But I guess the short of it is I was born in Massachusetts. I got into playing all the sports at a young age. Really enjoyed pushing myself and just enjoyed the camaraderie and just sports in general. And then the late 90s, early 2000s X Games became really popular.
Josh Perry
I got a set of rollerblades. I was already playing roller hockey and stuff like that with my dad, and then got a skateboard and snowboarding and then a bike came along and I really, really enjoyed it because for me it clicked quicker and I progressed faster. And then it also was now looking back, it was like another avenue of self expression because for most of my life I didn't feel safe to express myself in the various forms.
Josh Perry
So that was like my place to be myself and to progress at the same time. And so leading into high school, I had a decision. Do I want to go to a traditional high school or do I want to go to a technical high school and learn a trade? And where I'm from in Massachusetts, trades are really big there. And you can have your own small business and do really well for yourself. And I've been landscaping for front of the family up until end of my middle school career and decided I want to go to landscaping because I want to. I really enjoyed improving things. I really enjoyed being outside, working my hands, being physical and then and looking before and after and seeing oh man, I did that. And I also didn't want to go to school that much. So seeing the opportunity to have my own business one day.
Josh Perry
But then there was a co OP program come 10th grade, you can go to school for two weeks, like academics and then go to shop for two weeks. And then when you progress to the middle or end of your sophomore year, you can go to work for those two weeks of shop, get paid, get credit and to me fund my BMX adventure and go to school less. And so did that was successful. And then turned pro my junior year, dropped out of school and moved to Greenville, North Carolina, about an hour and a half east of here.
Josh Perry
And found myself on the stage of all the professionals I looked up to on tv, played the video game characters of all that and had great success early on, X Games and all that. And then training in March 2010, hit my head, got a concussion. And after a year of complaining of headaches and migraine vision problems, it was deemed necessary to get an MRI to check for tbi, swelling, bleeding and all those things. And go figure, I didn't have a pain pill deficiency like the places I was going to assumed I did based on their giving me pain pills and not giving me an image. And that concussion saved my life because it required an image. And then that's when they accidentally found a brain tumor taking over pretty much the left side of my brain.
Josh Perry
Eight centimeters long by four wide, four deep. And that was what I say is like the catalyst to me, auditing who I was inside and out and wanting to be better. It started out with fear of losing my life, and then it turned into inspiration to do something and have the gratitude to have an opportunity to live. Various people inspired me, like Lance Armstrong's story, another cyclist, a little different objective than what I was doing on a bike.
Josh Perry
But seeing someone do something showed me, just like in bmx, seeing other people do tricks. Oh, I can do that too. And so it just gave me a belief in myself. And I was back on my bike five weeks after the surgery here at Duke. Actually, that's where Dr. Alan Friedman, I found him there and had the successful surgery. And five weeks later I was back on my bike another two Months after that, I was competing again. And then, I mean, there's been multiple diagnoses, radiation treatments, other injuries in my career. Torn acl, reconstructive surgery for that, and then an awake brain surgery in 21 after some seizures revealed another tumor. So it's been messy, but that's life. And so everything is reinforced. The idea that we can't control our life.
Josh Perry
We can only control how we respond to life and the things that we think, feel, and do to a varying degree. And the objective to me is to master that which to me, mastery is constant improvement. It's that intention to better myself inside and out because of what's important to me.
Josh Perry
And so that's how I found myself doing what I do today and how we got connected. It's all been. We look back at things and we're like, oh, that's ironic, or serendipity. And it's like, no, that takes away the power of you consciously choosing to show up one way or another and having that intention. And that's just. My life experiences have just shown me that more and more, be intentional with your life, and you know you're gonna have a better chance and higher probability of having life experiences you want than if you go living at effect to the world and your environment.
Stephen Perry
And I think one of the things that tied us together at the very beginning was your relationship with your brother, who was a victim of suicide. And then Dave Mirra, same situation. I remember ending that talk about love in a way to, you know, reach out to people who may be contemplating ending it too soon. And I think there's so much to your story because there's that pain that you're living with, which is. Which is tough, but, like, maybe the audience didn't catch it, but these brain tumors aren't completely gone, so Josh is actually managing them day to day. And as a result, the reason that he gets the alien tag is, yes, he technically has a high school diploma through, I think, a ged, but he's hanging in there with some of the top metabolic experts in the world, as well as neurosurgeons. And so these are the people that he's hanging out with, and they respect him. Not just because he's an athlete and someone who's high performance, but he knows the science. And for me to see someone actually go so deep into metabolic health, into brain science just for your own survival, and then reach these really high levels of understanding where even PhDs and medical doctors are seeking your advice, I'm like, this is a Person I want in my life.
Josh Perry
Yeah, I mean, so I talk with my therapist about this. A lot of my coping strategies have been healthy. But as we've discussed, personally, the idea of action urges, a lot of the ways I was acting out of stress was helpful, but it disconnected me from what I was feeling in my body. So that being said, the things that I've done intellectually have all been productive, healthy, and have helped me, but. But the notion, you know, the tools that get us here won't get us there. So I've had to do a lot of unlearning in those areas. But what fueled me to dig into taking care of myself with metabolic health, psychology, neuro, linguistic programming, you know, fitness, all those things was started as fear. I was like, I don't want this to happen again. Ironically, it kept happening to prove to me that, like, you know, fear is going to be part of your life. It's not to fear fear, it's to have a better relationship with fear. And so just that combined with the action urges concept, I've been reevaluating. Even my tattoo features a thought. Thoughts can be changed. I now see that as a way for me to override what I was feeling, go straight up into my head, intellectualize things, make sense of what I was feeling and rationalize it. But the beauty of that, you know, the last 15 years has all been productive, healthy things I can share with other people and change their lives. Now I'm working on doing less of those things and then just embracing and embodying them. But before it was like, I gotta learn all this, I gotta problem solve. As you know, my first action urge is to problem solve. It's great, but it disconnects me more and more. So a lot of what I learned in my ability in BMX was to shut out the emotions, the noise, go up into my head. What is the task at hand to perform? Let's perform it the best I can. I did really well, but what I've learned is that was all trauma, informed decisions and attributes. So when you mentioned the alien piece. Yeah, my ability to shut down but be functional has been really profound. But it's been limiting me in various ways in my life.
Stephen Perry
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, the way they follow the reaction to those stimulus is they reach for a donut, they reach for alcohol or other drugs. And like, here you are, you reach for knowledge. And it sounds like a great coping mechanism until it goes to the extreme. The other topic that you mentioned, which I just, I think it really popped up in our one on one coaching sessions is some of the things that made you get to where you are today are going to hold you back from getting to where you want to be tomorrow. And this was like a really hard concept. So when we first started engaging in coaching, you're like, hey Steven, this is going to take about a year and we're going to unpack all this really cool stuff and they're going to repack it and you're going to be so much better off. And I'm like, okay, well Josh, you don't realize I'm also a high performance person. Let's get all this done. And not 90 days. I think 90 days went by and we, we had a couple of sessions. There was homework that didn't get done and I was basically kind of at, at the starting line 90 days into it. And so it was very humbling. But one of the things that I've come to, to know is, for instance, one of the things that made me quite successful at Kymanox and with our clients and with our employees was my accessibility. It was just always on 247 I could respond to an email. If you sent me an email in the middle of the night, well, guess what, I get up in the middle of night, I check email, you're going to get a response. And always accessible. I can always get on a plane. And that really helped Kymanox, especially in the first 10 years. But even in the first 20 years, going forward for the next 20 years of Kymanox, that is not what's going to help me. It's not what's going to help the company. So I kind of have to abandon this infinite accessibility branding that I've really became part of my identity and realize that's going to hold me back. And I know you've experienced some of those things. Most recently, Josh is now available to coach Kymenox employees. So there's this show, it's called Billions. It's kind of an old show now. And one of the characters in the show is Dr. Wendy. And Dr. Wendy is like the personal psychologist, therapist, psychiatric aide in the office for the CEO, but this person's also made available to the employees. And these people are hedge fund traders. They have a very stressful job. And so Kymanox kind of has the same setup. So Josh is our Dr. Wendy. He shadows me, he's always critiquing and helping me optimize. And we have our one on one sessions, but he's also got additional availability to meet with our employees. Can you talk a little bit about that? That involvement you have at the company level at Kymanox?
Josh Perry
Yeah. I mean, to my pleasantly being surprised is people are willing to go deeper than I expected, which is. I mean, anyone that knows me for five minutes knows I'll go deep in conversation, be as vulnerable as I can, which helps people I talk with, especially clients. But going back to what you were saying earlier, the idea of what got us here, I find with a lot of my clients, especially just anyone, I mean, myself as well, is a lot of those things served us at one point, like you said. And I got this from Dr. Gabor Mate, and he highlights the fact that we know doing X, Y or Z may be negative, harmful, unhealthy. That's not interesting. What's interesting is what's fueling that? Like, what does the person get out of it? And I know you've heard me ask you a lot of the times, what's the benefit of this? What's the payoff? What's valuable to you from this experience? And what I find in myself and it reflects in my clients, they mirror back to me is there's always this level of fear of not doing the thing that got me here and if I'm going to be successful moving forward. And it's really challenging to work through. And so being able to work through that with people, whether it be here or outside of Kymanox, is amazing because it's fulfilling to me, because it's also always reminding me, and then, you know, the best way to learn is to teach. So I'm able to take what I'm learning, teach it, teach myself, at the same time, reinforce it, and be able to pass that down, which to me is very fulfilling because it's not just you and I, it's whoever comes in contact with you gets to see your evolution. Same thing with me with my coach and my therapist. It's not just their time with me, it's all the people that I'm affecting. And so it's just a ripple effect. So being able to have a team under one umbrella of a client is amazing to me because it just helps me fulfill my mission that much further. And the people are showing up in a very vulnerable manner, and that makes it that much more effective for my time with them.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And so Kymanox, we're a life science company. We are broad, we're deep as well. We're kind of known in the space for covering all the different sectors, all the different time periods of. Of modern medicine development and We've got a great stable of scientists, engineers, project managers and compliance experts. And we're broad. And I think one of the things with Josh's coaching, the coaching's broadcast. So we're on the Orange Tea podcast, and I think going broad and deep at the same time, I mean, that's really an epitome of you. You cover a lot of different things. And what's interesting about Josh, you have to be very patient because you'll ask a question and you want help on it. A he's not going to answer for you, you're going to answer the question for yourself, which is actually quite challenging, especially when there's a fee for service involved because you feel like you want to get, you know, if I call my lawyer and ask a question, I get an answer. It doesn't work that way with coaching. With professional coaching, they coach it out of you. And so the beauty of that is the stuff that you and I have developed together and as we've helped some of the other Kymanox people, it's really long lasting things. I mean, these things have amazing shelf lives due to that professional coaching process.
Josh Perry
Yeah. And it takes time, as you said, and it's also going to bring up more obstacles and resistance. And I mean, I experienced this recently in therapy. I had a breakthrough. Then like two months later, I was like, why do I just feel so X, Y and Z? And he reminded me, well, sometimes for things to improve, they have to get worse. And to me, I see that as kind of like a test of like, how much do you want to move forward? And so the resistance that we may feel, the impatience to get the answer, that's the very thing holding us back from evolving, from growing, from progressing. And it reminds me of the quote, the magic we seek is in the work we avoid. And so what's interesting is like, why are you avoiding that you want this, but why do you want it quick? And we know nothing worth of value or worth having is going to happen quick. It's not easy. That's not what's going to drive us because then we don't deem it as valuable.
Stephen Perry
Yeah, well, the other thing is, I mean, I know you're an entrepreneur as well and you're running your own business and I thought just because I was willing to pay and engage with you that I automatically had a right to work with you. And like you made it very clear. It's like, no, no, no, this is a two way street. I'm interviewing you as well. So could you talk about things that you look for in a coaching relationship that you think is going to be fruitful? Because the way you described it to me is like you didn't want to spend a year with me and then not be successful and that you kind of know what some of those things are for success. And I do feel like some people are very resistant to change and resistant to coaching. So what are some of the things that you look for when you're engaging in an initial relationship?
Josh Perry
Yeah, I mean, first, the things I don't look for is just if someone can afford to pay to work with me, that's not enough. Because I even told you the most success with clients comes from long term engagements. It's not just a transactional 6 months, 12 months, here's the fee. We get the work done because as you've experienced and you alluded to or you actually described earlier, the 90 day and 30 days, that doesn't work because all the components that are messy are full of resistance. So the things I look for are people that are willing to be as open as they can. Because I tell you this, in all my clients, whatever affects you as a whole affects whatever goal or mission we're working towards. Because you are the human I'm working with. You're the same brain that goes everywhere you go. And so things I look for is being open, being vulnerable as much as they feel comfortable. That's why I share a lot of intimate things to help create that sense of safety and trust. Also, the only other thing is the willingness to be led. Like can you lead or take my lead? Like you mentioned earlier, before we were recording, I refer to myself as a guide. I don't like the word coach consultant. I think people have their own internal representations of words, which is why I try to use other analogies. Because if I see myself as a guide, and I know, okay, we're going up this mountain. I know I've done it how many thousands of times? I know what to pack. I know what pack to even begin with. I know what to put in there. I know the journey. I know where there's roadblocks, if there's obstacles, if something comes up out of nowhere. I also know the detour, like, all that stuff. So the willingness to be led is you're going to pack the pack and you're going to walk with me or hike with me. I may have to get behind you at some point and push you to keep going, which is my job as a coach, is to push. But those are really the only two requirements I have, is can you be open and can you be open to being led?
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And I feel like a lot of that comes down to this weird concept of curiosity, is are you curious about improving? Are you curious about what is possible? How is curiosity part of that evaluation? And how does curiosity kind of play out in your life as well as just when you're coaching others?
Josh Perry
I mean, curiosity has saved my life. Right. Like, if you think about the first time I was diagnosed with a brain tumor, was 21, and I had the level of curiosity to think beyond my circumstances. And I think if all else fails, if someone can just be curious rather than affirm or already be solidified, then they have an opportunity to move forward. When it comes to working with clients, I mean, that's a prerequisite, I think, of being open is can you be curious of things? So there's no one that wants to get to the point of having a conversation with me as a consultation about working with me that doesn't have some level of curiosity, because why would they be there? Like, there's something going on. So that, I think, is the base of change. Like, can you be curious? Because if you can't be curious of something, you've already set in stone the future for yourself. And that's why change is so hard, because people are locked into the past, which is the present that predicts the future. Because it's familiar, it's comfortable, it's safe. The brain perceives it as not a threat. It's predictable. The brain's always trying to predict what's going to come next. But when you can be curious, you dilute the charge of the threat, of the fear, of the anxiety, the worry, the guilt, the stress, whatever it may be. And that's what allows us to move forward, is, can you be curious of what would it Take. I had this intention. Okay, cool. What would it take? Well, no, now. Okay, that's, that's good. We know what's happening now. And what would it take to move forward? What's one thing, even simple. Something as simple as shifting your perspective of something. Which is huge.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And I think so I'm a redhead. And so this is the orange tea podcast. And some of that is all the things that you hear about gingers, most of them are true. One of those things is kind of a hot headed high energy ball. And that, that for the most part, I associate that a little bit, definitely high energy. And I can be quick to judge and quick to speak. And what I've noticed is with our coaching, I become curious instead of triggered. So sometimes somebody will say something that triggers me and the old self, I would kind of like immediately lash out and start getting defensive and kind of like go on the attack. And now I'm like, oh, I'm curious what's going on in that person's life that they would want to say that to me or why are they bringing it up now? And I just kind of come at it from a completely different angle. And what's so beautiful, not only is it disarming with the person that you're working with, it's disarming yourself. So those like defense mechanisms that are there to maybe protect you in a, in an environment where you're a caveman. Right. Which just doesn't exist anymore and it's really not serving you. I have found that just asking questions and being curious about the situation is very helpful. And actually I learned that before meeting you in the yoga studio. The great yoga instructors will kind of say, okay, we're going to get in this pose, it's going to be difficult. And instead of like judging yourself or judging the pose, why don't you just be curious at what it's doing for you and how you're showing up and how that pose is showing up. And don't judge, just be curious and see what you can learn. And so if we talk about an intention today is to share knowledge and like the knowledge that we've gained. I think curiosity is just a phenomenal way to get to share information and ultimately share knowledge.
Josh Perry
Yeah, I agree. And I think it's also the first step to change to action, to courage, to anything. So if you think about how our relationships evolved, it's been, can you be curious to learn new things, to do new things, to unlearn things? And then the first step of education is awareness so with your talking about that experience or that type of experience is can you be curious to learn to create more awareness to where you can notice yourself in action, you can observe yourself in the program of who you are and how you're showing up to. Then be curious of why is this affecting me? Why is this activating me right now? And then you unconsciously go, what's going on with them? What's going on in their life? And I think that, that if someone could just develop that one skill, I think society would look so much different. Everyone could do that because not only are you learning, you're learning to create awareness of how you show up, how other people show up, and how the two of you are regulating or dysregulating yourselves.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. So we talked a little bit about the struggle that we had that first 90 days where I thought I could just pack in a year's worth of Josh Perry coaching and get to that next performance level in 90 days instead of a full year. And that that was a big crash and burn. But we've had some wins. So one of the wins I wanted to share with the audience is Josh kind of made me do an inventory of what I value, what my priorities are, and ultimately what were some things that were preventing me from achieving me supporting those values and then correctly prioritizing those priorities. And came down that like, sleep was a really important thing that I was kind of putting off. Apparently I have this like fear of missing out that if I go to bed early, I'm going to miss something. I may miss a late email from an employee or from a client. And I just, I had a 2am bedtime for, for from age 20 to age 40 and this like ultimately stopped serving me. And so what was interesting, it didn't become about sleep, it became what was impacting my sleep. And so even though I wasn't a big consumer of alcohol, I would have occasional drinks with dinner after dinner. And once I got on a biometric bracelet, I noticed that, wow, that alcohol was significantly impacting my ability to get good deep sleep and good REM sleep. And so ultimately we talked about just taking a break from alcohol. And so I elected to take a 400 day break from alcohol. And since then I've pretty much been alcohol free. I have the occasional celebratory drink. I kind of cap it at typically two drinks, but that's been life changing for me. And I thought I needed alcohol as this like social lubricant in order to be funny, in order to be outgoing. And it Turns out I'm hilarious and I'm outgoing and fun without the alcohol. So that was something that we kind of backed into this like. Like really changing my relationship with alcohol. And it was all about coming back to priorities and values and then ultimately looking at what was impeding that, which was sleep. And it turns out alcohol was probably one of my biggest sleep disruptors, even though I was not drinking that much. Could you unpack for the audience a little bit the importance of values and priorities in your process?
Josh Perry
Yeah. So I recall when we first started our coaching relationship, you wanted to work on your problem that you thought was time management. And I was like, I don't think that's the problem, but we'll go with it. And it's just evolved to where we are now. So when you think about what you just described, it highlights the action of self sabotage. And what I've come to learn is self sabotage is nothing but a conflict of values. Just the more ambiguous, unconscious value at play takes over and destructs things. And so when we do a value elicitation and we rank the values, we go through and we map the meaning of them and we figure out what's important to you, we're not talking about virtues like integrity or faith or things like that. We're talking about the things you value in life. Family for me, golf, hiking with my wife and a dog, working out my health values, things that you value and that motivate you to do the thing that you want to do in life or don't want to do, but, you know, because of what it does to other things. The idea of what you're describing is if your nervous system is dysregulated and you're not aware of it because it's an unconscious process, until you become curious of educating yourself on creating the awareness, you're going to self sabotage in ways that you cannot think of. And, you know, because alcohol is so abundant and accepted and I'd say prioritized in our country and the world at large, it's not something that people think about because they associate unconsciously. Oh, it's how I de stress. Or I just have a drink or a couple of drinks a night and it winds me down not knowing it's interrupting your sleep, which if your health isn't important to you, we could talk and I could make it important to you. I could help you make it important for yourself. But we all know if we don't show up, well, if our body, our brain is deteriorating, the things that we do say we Consciously value have no chance because they're all at the effect of how we show up. And you highlighted the great discovery of how alcohol impacts your health and the things you value as a consequence of your health not being optimal. And it's just a great description and story of how an unconscious value of yours, which always comes back to the body wanting to preserve itself or the brain wanting to preserve the body. We just don't know. Until we know we see it, we don't have to be it. You discover that through our time together, and then here you are now you have a whole different relationship with it, which is the important piece. It's not the thing that's the problem. It's our relationship with the thing. When we can understand that, create awareness to it, and reevaluate our relationship and change the perception of things, we have a higher chance at creating the life that we want and affecting the people in our lives in a positive manner.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And I think what's funny is I thought I would want to quit alcohol to lose the calories, because there's a lot of empty calories in alcohol. And it's kind of like that additional macro that just doesn't really fit any other category. And just for the audience's sake, I did not really lose any weight, even though I quit alcohol. But holy moly, my sleep got better and every aspect of my life got better. And I think society kind of feeds you these lies that a couple of drinks actually relaxes you. It's actually healthy. I mean, there were some studies that some red wine would be really good for your cardiovascular system. It's not. So if you study the science, it is directly proportional to more cancer, and it impacts your heart in a really negative way. In the short term, with heart rate variability, that number goes way down, which is bad. And I just like showing up feeling my best every day. And so ultimately, my choice now going forward is I'll have the occasional drink, but it's going to be a wedding, some big anniversary, and. And it's probably going to be two drinks, just enough to relax. And. And then I'm not. I'm not demonizing alcohol for anyone. I think for some people, it may work for them. It just didn't work for me anymore. And so when I took that full inventory of how it was impacting me, and it's like, wow, alcohol, even though I was, like a moderate drinker, it was really sabotaging my life and preventing me from achieving these goals, which were very ambitious goals that I really needed every Advantage possible.
Josh Perry
Yeah. I mean, and you being an intentional person, which is an attribute I look for with working with people, is you had an intention that wasn't being served because of the alcohol. And, I mean, that's. I mean, that's just. Everything that we want in life is to be aware of how we're showing up and if it's in conflict with what we care about. And, you know, alcohol disrupts your sleep, which disrupts your health, which. Yeah, the weight didn't. You know, it wasn't gonna. You know, gonna help with that directly. But all the other things all add up, and you're becoming a better version of yourself, which, to me, is the epitome of being a high performer. Like, personal performance is based on how well you show up. It's not a physical thing. It's not a mental thing. It's not an emotional thing. It's not a spiritual. It's all of those. It's how you show up and if you're happy with it. But most people, they don't know what it's like to not have the thing like alcohol. Have you taken, you know, three weeks off of drinking? Even if you drink every weekend, have you tried? Not for a month. And see how you feel. Things like that. Are you curious enough to see what it's like? But then that reveals people's resistance and the attachments that they're not aware of, they have. Like, food is so emotional. But until we evaluate our relationship with things, we stand no chance of improving. We're always in the new year. We're in the new year now, people. New year, new me. I'm gonna do this resolution that we talked about this earlier. You can't expect to add things to your plate that you're not doing and expect them to change until you learn who you are and how you show up, which impacts your results in life, which is your.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. It's not easy. I think making those steps and then I think having this guide with you is very helpful. So having Josh as a sounding board and someone who's, yes, that's going to happen, Steven. And here's how to get through it was, was very helpful. The other thing I think from the personal one on one coaching is I'm a big proponent of taking, you know, daily vitamin C, daily vitamin D and keeping your C going and keeping your vitamin D3 levels high and even at therapeutic levels. But there's also vitamin N, which is how often you say no, are you taking the vitamin N, are you saying no and are you exercising restraint? And we talk about people's plates being too full. This was something else that I, I was known to have just these overflowing plates and just being a superhero and putting my cape on and just balancing all this stuff. And it, it, you know, it was 60 hour weeks, 80 hour weeks, sometimes even 100 hour week. And then having a sense of pride in that. And now I realize, well, that's not serving me anymore. So I'm learning restraint and I'm learning no. I'm also kind of, I'm now in the AARP kind of category for age. When I work out and I play sports, I don't go for these max personal bests anymore. And every time I've tried, I've been humbled. And so I'm exercising restraint even in my fitness goals and things like that. And shutting down workouts maybe a little bit sooner than I normally would, knowing that there's going to be a tomorrow. Could you talk about the importance of no and the importance of restraint in your system?
Josh Perry
Yeah. So a friend helped me understand that there's discipline. And the other side of the coin of discipline is restraint, being able to say no to things. And we also know now that the interior mid singlet cortex, we have two regions of the brain where neuroscientists are considering it the seat of our willpower. It's plastic and it grows the more you practice restraint. So someone.
00:39:09 - Stephen Perry
And can we define for the audience discipline? The way I've defined it is you do the things that you need to do in the now, even though you may not want to do them, there's necess, not necessarily a motivation that you, that you're feeling, but you do them because that's what you do. And you've associated those actions with long term success.
Josh Perry
Yeah, I don't think there's anything to add to it. I just. Okay, I simplify.
Stephen Perry
And then how is the how, then how is that different from restraint?
Josh Perry
So restraint is avoiding things. It's having strategic ignorance to things. It's saying no because of the thing you want to do, you want to be disciplined in. So let's say someone that's trying to save money, for example, if their objective is to have $100 at the end of the month and then they're buying things that cost X, Y and Z, that's taking away from what could go in there. And then in the month they're like, oh, I only have $70. Well, it's because you said yes to all these things. So when you say yes to something, you have to be comfortable with what you're saying no to. So in this example, saying yes to going out to the bar is saying no to the hundred dollar goal you.
Yeah. So saying no to things, it helps you say yes to the things that matter. And this is why having your priorities in check, having the values in check, eliciting the value, all those things that are kind of cliche because they're just so talked about, but they're not practice, they're not demonstrated. So to me, a simple version of discipline is showing up and demonstrating the things that you say you do and who you are. It's simple. It's not about being perfect, it's just about more times than not, you do those things and you're also connecting them to what matters to you. So being able to say no to things is really important because you're saying yes to what matters. And if you're not understanding of what's going on there, if you're not aware of your relationship there, then that's why people are so unhappy. What was it? Unhappy, sick, broke and unfulfilled. Like that's really common in today's world for various reasons.
Stephen Perry
But that's the average American.
Josh Perry
Yeah, the average American. I think it's like 67% of people don't exercise and 60 something percent of people in this country alone are overweight and obese and 90% of those are metabolically unhealthy. Which is an interesting to think about, but yeah, I mean, and what is it most like? 70% of Americans can't afford a $400 emergency without going into credit card debt. It's absurd. But then we look at what people spend their money on and their time on and it's like, all right, well that makes sense then. Not to say there isn't difficulties, of course there is.
Stephen Perry
And I think too, based on my going through this vitamin N regimen and learning how to say no and really understanding the opportunity cost of saying yes, saying yes to things that aren't really part of your goals, not, not really aligned with your values, and certainly not part of your immediate or even long term priorities. That this is another form of self sabotage which you talk about. So you're just like going along and saying yes out of guilt, out of obligation, out of this is what the person expects me to do. So I'm kind of like, I'm working towards being a fully reformed people pleaser and people pleasing is very helpful. Like when you're in account management, when you're in business development. But if you're trying to run an enterprise like Kymanox and you're trying to run a family like what I've got at home. It is absolutely a form of self sabotage to be just pleasing the random person. I need to be very intentional about how I am deploying my time and energy. And you know, some people, you know, some people are surprised they get a check from me and I'm like, well that's like, that's the easiest thing for me to do. Like, you're not getting my time, but you're going to get, you're going to get maybe some financial support. And so I've been prioritizing saying no to the things that are aligned with my values and that are helping me achieve these prioritized goals that I have. And I think your teaching and your way of looking at the world has been extremely helpful. And now you're kind of offering that service to some of these Kymenox employees who are coming to you. What's the most common problem that you see when you first engage somebody? What's the most common thing? And like, where do you, where do you typically find an easy win or a quick win?
Josh Perry
Yeah, I think the way I've distilled it into like four common performance barriers and the inverse of those would be the four pillars of personal performance is number one, a dysregulated nervous system and not understanding that you're constantly activated or triggered. People like to say number two is a lack of psychological resilience. So it just speaks to mindset. And what kind of perceptions do you have of the world of stress, of failure, relationship with all the above, so on and so forth. The third is a lack of optimal metabolic health. How well do you sleep, eat, and move to the point where your body is creating energy from the food you're eating rather than storing it as body fat? I mean, that's the simple definition of metabolic health, is how well your body can create energy cellular rather than storing it as body fat. And then the fourth is, do you have effective systems and protocols that keep you aligned, that keep you on track, that put up the guardrails, so to speak, of your life. So that way you're strategically ignorant to anything else that's not in alignment. It's one of those four, that one or more of those four that people are challenged with, myself included, which is why I have people helping me and working with me to discover more of those things. So it's just different for everyone. But I will say at the root of all of those comes this Sense of disconnection from the mind and body to where they're self sabotaging. And they don't even know that they are. They're just wondering, why does this thing keep happening? What's really going on there? So it just comes down to that emotional piece of the body. Like, if you think about it, thoughts are the language of the brain. Feelings and emotions are the language of the body. And if you're like me and you've been so disconnected because you're intellectualizing things as a way to be successful and perform, but escape what you're feeling because it's uncomfortable, people will say, oh, you're high, performing, articulate, successful, all these things. But then you constantly feel stressed, and so you have to get back in the body, which is scary. So there's a common theme of that with everyone I work with, and it's just human nature in today's world, because we have the latest evolutionary part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex, that most animals, I think all animals don't have. So they don't get caught up ruminating in their mind about all the things that happened. They just get stressed. Stress enters the body and then when they're out, they're done with it and they go on to grazing and raising their young and whatever. But we continue to think about all the things, what's coming next, all the pressures, all the judgment, all the societal things, and then wonder why we're unhappy, wonder why we're sick while we're stuck. Well, because you're unaware, that's the first step, is creating a level of awareness or consciousness, because then you have a chance of being empowered.
Stephen Perry
And I think that going back to that earlier topic of curiosity, if you're just curious, is there a better way and is there, how are other people handling this? And what information is available to me for me to navigate my own life? I think curiosity is a great way to do that. One of the other things that we talk about is the words we say to ourselves. The word. The words we use to describe what we're doing really impact ultimately, like how we show up and how we perform. You kind of gave a name to it. Neural linguistic programming. Can you talk about how that impacts everything? Just the power of the word, Josh.
Josh Perry
Yeah, so I mean, to be clear, I didn't create neuroistic programming or nlp. That's other people you created for me. I shared it with you. Yeah, I mean, a simple frame for this that I learned from my mentor. So going back to what we were talking about earlier. Having virtual mentors is so inspiring because you can study people's psychology and physiology of what you deem successful, how they did it, and then you can reverse engineer and apply that in your life. So I know you've mentored a lot of people, but if people don't have access to the person in personal form, things like this, podcasts, I mean, it's today's day and age. You can learn from anyone. So I was taught a very simple frame to understanding your psychology. And it starts with stories. Stories are how we learn and how we've been learning for generations. And that codes who we are at a certain level, because the stories we tell ourselves code our belief systems, which our belief systems become our filter of how we see ourselves in the world and what's possible. And that filter creates our value system, which is our motive for something, for doing something or avoiding something. And that's where we talk about the importance of values, is because that's where motivation comes from. So when someone tells me that they just need more motivation or they're not motivated or, Josh, how are you so motivated? First I say, I'm not always motivated. Like, that's impossible. As a human being. Discipline becomes a part of it. But more importantly, understanding your value system, which drives your motive to do something or obtain something or run from something is so important because once you can tap into that, you can remind yourself, doing this thing is valuable to me because of this thing. So you just stack the value from here to there. Something as simple as taking care of my health is valuable to my children, to my business, to so on and so forth. And then all that creates our level of our identity, our I am statements. And the question is, who are you when you're not doing the thing that you've identified as for so long, which was my challenge, right, because you were.
Stephen Perry
A BMX pro athlete and you were on tv and you're up on the podium taking these awards, and you're on the highlight reel doing these amazing stunts, and people associate Josh Perry with that performance. Now you're no longer performing. Like, how did that make you feel?
Josh Perry
I was depressed for a year and a half because I didn't know who I was. I attached my identity to the thing I did from 13 to 32. And so I was lost. And it took working with a coach to help me understand that who I am allowed me to do that thing at a level that people deemed extraordinary. So what I did was an extension of who I am at my core. The attributes of who I am. So the challenge I had to work through was, what are the stories I'm telling myself now? I'm no longer a professional athlete. I'm, you know, unsuccessful now. Like, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't have a degree. I don't have any other skills or knowledge or any of these things. So I was telling myself a story that created a belief system that then was a filter of what I thought was possible. And not understanding my action urges, I was just doing all the things, trying to figure things out and not feel like I was going anywhere until I hired a coach, which, thankfully, I had the courage to do that. But that story created that belief, which then created the value on this thing, which was, I just need to learn. I need to, like, get all these qualifications. Like, that's going to help me. And it didn't do anything. So my identity, it was lost because I didn't know who I was. And once I figured out who I was, then I figured out my purpose in life, which before was to just ride a bike. That was the thing I valued most of my Life. I was 13 when I started that. But then I discovered, oh, my purpose is to be my best version of myself. That led me to my higher purpose, which I consider my calling, which is to do what we're doing now as an extension of my calling to help people with the various things we've talked about.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And I don't just get coaching from Josh. My. One of my first executive coaches, God rest his soul, with Joe Magno or Joseph Magno. And then now I work with Shep Moyle, who's just a phenomenal coach. And what's nice about both of those gentlemen is they're a little bit further advanced in age and they've just seen more things. They've also been at different intersections of my life that I'm about to. About to encounter. Josh, one of the reasons you're an alien is you. You come at everything with this old soul approach. And I think what people don't realize is you're retired. You're a retired professional. And so you've had to deal with retirement like you had to, like, put that part of your life behind you and create a new life. And what's interesting is at some point, I'm going to step away from the day to day of running Kymanox and move into a more steering role for the organization. That might be five or ten years down the road, but I want to prepare for it. And one of the things that you've helped me is see what that transition's like. So that's like another reason you're an alien is you're still this young, hip guy with a ton of energy and a ton of youth behind you, but you've experienced all these things that typically old people experience, which is retirement. So I just wanted to kind of give you props there. I appreciate it. I think the stuff that we're doing together, I know you're also practicing. It's constant work. What are some of the things that you personally are working on right now, like to get to that next level and to learn more about yourself and achieve that next level of performance?
Josh Perry
Yeah, I mean, I'm personally. Like I said earlier, I've mentioned my therapist several times. I'm personally working, going deeper into that journey to be more vulnerable with myself, which when my therapist posed that challenge, I was like, what do you mean? I talk about everything. He's like, but what do you feel? I was like, oh, I kind of don't feel anything at certain times. I just go into my head. So that's personally what I'm working on. And besides that, I mean, I'm continuing to work on growing my business. My wife and I, we want to have a child in the next year or so. So that's another growth area, which is why the work, so to speak, is so much more important than it was before. Because I've been learning that the greatest gift we can give a child is a regulated parent. And that's something I'm very focused on and wanting to be the best version of myself for my family and for my clients and anyone I come in contact with. So, yeah, just try and develop more awareness to the program that is my nervous system and unconscious mind and all that stuff, and just figure out how it can be better. More importantly, I'm working on doing less. I think that that's something that a lot of people think is going to move the needle, is doing more when actually doing is for the body, but being is for the soul. So when you can be more, you get to tap into what's really going on, but it's scary. So then people go back to their urges to get away from it. So I'm personally practicing acting opposite, which for my action urges, it's problem solving, learning, preparation over preparation, and obsessing of all three that came before. So when I notice I'm doing one of those, then I just go, all right, I'm going to do something else. I'm going to act completely Opposite. And go figure, I'm having more success, I'm feeling better. I'm having more interesting conversations and relationships. And I think that that's just the biggest piece is, like I said earlier, the magic we seek is in the work we avoid. When you can embrace the work and know the work doesn't stop. I think that people get stuck because they think if I just accomplish this thing that is my mental health or X, Y and Z, I'm going to be set. And it's like, no, this is a whole side topic for another time. But there's not enough conversation about maintaining success and the work that goes into it. There's so much conversation about how to become successful, but I don't see enough about maintaining it. And it's this work that we're talking about. So that's personally what I'm focused on.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. And I think one of the things that we've been working on in the last couple of months is these action urges and then knowing how to spot when something's gonna happen. And that you tend to go down a path, reacting to stimulus in an unproductive manner, and then, you know, choosing just to identify that this is happening.
Josh Perry
To you and be curious of what you're getting out of it, even if it's to affirm the complaint or to confirm the belief you have in life to keep you comfortable. It's not the idea of payoff we think is like somebody have advantage, but it's the payoff in terms of what's keeping you where you are and complaining about it. And that's a tricky thing to consider. But if you can be curious of it and then go, what am I getting from complaining about this thing? I get to be right. I get to be, you know, upset. How does that feel? What do I get out of that feeling? I don't get anything. I just get more stuck. Oh, what could I do? I don't know. Let's look up a resource. Let's talk to someone. Let's go on Google, like, I don't know, like, there's so many opportunities. Once you get out of your mind and where you are now and think about what do you want? But it comes back to that level of curiosity. It's the first domino.
Stephen Perry
Yeah, yeah. This is. This has been great. I think we've covered quite a bit today. The last thing I wanted to do is you've got these cool things, these tattoos. I do not have any tattoos, but Josh has enough for the both of us. One of them, I always look at when we're in a coaching session, is your C greater than E? And I was wondering if you could just hold that up, show that to the camera and give, just give an explanation to the audience like why, why that's on your body and why it's.
Josh Perry
Significant as a reminder. That's what it. All my tattoos, especially the ones I can see being at cause from my reality is greater than being at effect to my circumstances. To me, this is the equation of empowerment. It's not to say I never feel like a victim. You'll never feel like a victim if you apply this. It's to remind myself when I'm feeling like a victim, am I showing up at cause or at effect? No. Right or wrong. But what do I want to do to get to where I want to go? And it's a reminder to me that I can be greater than my environment, my circumstances, if I choose to do so. It's not always easy, but it's possible.
Stephen Perry
Yeah. So I think today we learned about the whole self also. I think we kind of let you look under the kimono of, you know, a, a CEO who's running a successful business. And these are the things that I'm talking about for my performance coaching. And it has a direct impact, the top line and the bottom line of the business. And we just want to make sure people had an. Had an appreciation for that. And it's not just reserved for executives. You could be a new worker to the workforce right out of school and you can start working on your own performance and, you know, not to steal the punchline, but like, get your sleep, make sure you've got proper movement and make sure you're fueling your body with the proper nutrition. And those sound like, you know, just wellness things, but absolutely they translate to the boardroom and to the work that you're doing in business.
Josh Perry
It translates to a regulated nervous system or a chance to regulate your nervous system which affects how you show up. Yep. They're everything.
Stephen Perry
Yep. All right, so thank you everybody. Josh, really, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your wisdom today. And I think this was a great opportunity and I'm sure there'll be more opportunities in the future.
Josh Perry
Yeah. Looking forward to it. Appreciate it.
Voiceover
Thank you for joining us on the Orange Tea. Remember, at Kymenox, we believe in small, capable, T shaped teams driving innovation and progress through broad and deep thinking. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn and don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on YouTube or your favorite listening app. For more information about kymenox visit kymenox.com that's k y m a n o x.com let's continue building and growing together with intention. Until next time on the orange tea.