https://youtu.be/7UcZqFzCPM4
Matt and Sean talk about spawning not just one fictional universe, but two, in Star Trek: The Original Series episode, Mirror, Mirror. We get to see evil Spock’s evil goatee, but where are the seven dwarfs?
Matt and Sean talk about spawning not just one fictional universe, but two, in Star Trek: The Original Series episode, Mirror, Mirror. We get to see evil Spock’s evil goatee, but where are the seven dwarfs?
The lost episode of Star Trek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUMZaR52YaA
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What is Trek In Time?
Join Sean and Matt as they rewatch all of Star Trek in order and in historical context.
In this episode, we're talking about 2 2, 2 universes in one. That's right. We're talking about Mirror Mirror. This is of course from Star Trek The Original Series, originally broadcast on October 6th, 1967, episode number 39 in shooting order. 33rd in broadcast order, fourth of the second season. Welcome everybody to Trek in Time.
This is of course the podcast where we are watching every episode of Star Trek in chronological start date order and talking about the world at the time of original broadcast. So we are talking about the original series, which means we're talking about the late sixties. And who are we? Well, I'm Sean Ferrell.
I'm a writer. I write some sci-fi. I write some stuff for kids. And with me as always is my brother Matt. He is that Matt Behind Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impacting our lives. Matt, how are you today?
Doing pretty well, but Sean. You look a little sick. Let me, let me, let me take a look at you here, buddy.
Let me, let me, how you feeling? How you feeling? I brought this up last week, but I had to show people this insanity. This is the coolest thing ever. I'm sorry I'm a, such a, such a nerd. It's, I just love this thing.
I keep scanning the cat. Yeah.
Turns out she doesn't like it. Cat is not a Klingon.
Well, it's, it's a good weekend for sci-fi in my mind. I just introduced my son last night. He isn't, he has not watched the show Andor so, whoa. We started watching Andor yesterday and we watched the first three episodes, and for anybody who doesn't know the series Andor first of all, you're missing out so watch it.
Second of all, it's effectively four movies. And so by watching the first three episodes, we watched a, what felt like a complete film, a, a, a full chapter in the story. And, uh, at the end of watching three episodes in a row. It was, I felt a little bit like I had just injected him with heroin and was like, so did you like that?
Yeah, he liked it. So as I mentioned, we are going to talk about Mirror Mirror, but before we get into that one, we always like to revisit the mailbag and see what you had to say about our previous episodes. So Matt what have you found in the mailbag for us this week?
Well, last week we talked about The Apple.
The penultimate episode of Star Trek. That's one of the worst things I've ever seen. Yeah, it, uh, we had people like chiming in like Happy Flappy Farm saying this episode is ridiculous in so many ways. Next! And Dan Sims wrote not much to say about this episode, other than, I hope the next one is better.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. You and me both Dan and, uh, Pale Ghost wrote, I've watched this episode twice. Read the Wikipedia and had it read back to me. Now, I've listened to you both discuss this episode. I still have no idea what actually happened. This episode could have been a fan edit of several episodes with no coherent storyline, and I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.
So yeah, Sean, this episode did not go over well with, uh, anybody else either. Uh, Pale Ghost. I also wrote a, um, wrong answers only, which I like this one. Mirror Mirror. At an alien bazaar Uhura is sold an alien mirror that acts like a beauty filter. Uhura puts it in the mess hall for everyone to have fun with until they goad Spock into using it and his face remains unchanged.
The next day, the mirror is gone and the whole ship abuzz in the mystery. It's only at the end of the episode that we see Captain Kirk, that Captain Kirk has it in his quarters, staring at his own reflect reflected visage before saying mirror mirror on the wall. Who's the handsomest of them all? The mirror shows Spock again.
Kirk then jettisons the mirror out the airlock while the whole crew looks on the mirror is still displaying the image of Spock, which I, I love that one. I thought that was great. Uh, and then also, uh, JD Lewis also had one. He had had a combo comment, which was. You know, it's funny that you mentioned Star Trek Two, the Wrath of The Wrath of Vaal because in the 1980s, DC Comics published a Star Trek comic book storyline where the enterprise returns to the planet Vaal only to discover the planet has degenerated into a total dystopia, and the planet's residence blame the enterprise for their tragic plight. Mm. Which I thought was interesting.
Yep. And then he had his own wrong answers only. While on routine patrol, the enterprise encounters a deep space probe, which probes Uhura's mind, which in turn triggers memories of her favorite childhood fairytale, causing Uhura to believe that she's the evil queen from Snow White. And of course, as always, hilarity ensues.
So lots of Snow White here.
Yeah. Which hearkens back to the musical episode of Strange New Worlds, but we won't talk about that one again. Oh God. I will say of the first comment you read about the fan episode, you know, a fan edit of an episode that makes no sense. I've been holding this in my back pocket until the right moment.
I think this is that moment. There is a YouTube video, which is the lost episode of Star Trek, the original series.
Mm-hmm.
It is a fan edit of just nonsense. It is effectively the Star Trek version of too many Cooks. And we'll drop the link to that video in the show notes here. So if anybody wants to cue it up and take a look, I will warn you it is mind bendingly stupid.
It is mind bending and it is an hour. Oh my dear. Have you watched the whole thing? I have. I have watched the whole thing because I'm that guy and it is fun to put onto in the background. It's fun to have on in the corner of your monitor while you're doing other stuff, and every now and then you, you hear something and you look down and you realize what they're doing.
It is without spoiling anything. It is a mashup mainly of nonverbal moments. Okay, so it is awkward looks, it is pinging sound effects. It is awkward pauses. It is waiting for something to happen. It is weird. So we will drop the, we will drop the link for that in the, in the show notes. I hope if anybody is able to stomach watching it. Uh, jump into the comments. Let us know what you thought. Anyway, on we go now to our discussion of Mirror Mirror. That noise in the background, those lights upon your screen, they can mean only one thing. Yes, it is the read alert. It is time for not to tackle the Wikipedia description.
Alright, a transporter mishap slips Captain Kirk and his companions into a parallel universe where the enterprise serves a, serves a barbaric empire instead of the Federation, Kirk Bones, Scotty and Uhura try to act appropriately for their new environment while figuring out how to get back to their universe where their empire equivalents beamed.
In this mirror universe, Mr. Chekhov tried to kill Captain Kirk to succeed as captain, but failed and was sent to the torture booth. The Empire Spock received a command from Star Fleet Base to execute Captain Kirk if he does not annihilate the planet, Halkan by dawn, which he tells Kirk. Bones. Bones and Scotty Repro the way this is written, Sean.
Yeah. Bones and Scotty Repro. It feels like it was written by AI. Bones and Scotty reprogramed the transporter to beam them back, but are encountered by Spock in Sick Bay. Spock. This is like a fifth grade report of a book here. Mm-hmm. Spock attacks them but is defeated and about to die. Kirk allows Bones to treat him while the others go to the transporter room.
Mirror Spock learns the truth about the twin universes and brings Bones to the transporter room, where he helps them transport back to our universe where Spock is waiting for them. Wow. Yeah, that's, I thought that was a, there's the ripper on conclusion.
Spock was waiting for 'em. Spock is waiting for them. I also like that last sentence.
If you read it with, uh, McCoy's nickname being lowercase.
Oh yeah,
correct me. Spock learns the truth about the twin universes and brings bones to the transporter room.
That's a very different show.
It is macabre. Mirror Mirror, the original series, season two, episode four, directed by Marc Daniels, written by Jerome Bixby.
With guest appearances by Barbara Luna as Lieutenant Marlena Moreau, John Winston, Vic Perrin, Eddie Pasky, William Blackburn, Roger Holloway, Pete Kellett, Garth Pillsbury, Bob Bass, and Bobby Clark also appear. And from the original crew, we have pretty much everybody. William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, DeForest Kelly, James Doohan, Nichelle Nichols, George Takei, Walter Koenig.
And the one thing about this cast list that I was curious about, I really like Barbara Luna. I thought she was very good in this. I thought she was a, I thought she was a good actress, and I was like, what else did she do? She was in a lot of TV shows in single appearances, but she would go on to reprise this character in the YouTube fan series.
Star Trek phase two. Have you ever heard of Star Trek, phase two, Matt?
Yes.
Yes. So a fan made series where they ended up enlisting a lot of the actors who appeared in various versions of the original series, and some of 'em even next generation, and they would bring them back and reprise their characters.
So if you're really, really interested in what happened to Lieutenant Marlene Moreau, well there is a way for you to find out. And what was the world like at the time of original broadcast? October 6th, 1967. A lot of very familiar names from last week, because strangely enough, this is one of those, how do they do the old switcheroo?
Apple apple was made before this episode, but it broadcast after it. So a lot of the things we talked about last week. Were from October 13th and here we are a week earlier with, That's right Matt. I know you know it. I know you love it. The Letter by the Box Tops. Take it away, Matt. Good. And Matt, I know you know it.
I know you like it. It's the number one film of the week to Sir With Love. Yes. This is the British drama, talking about social and racial issues starring Sidney Poitier, and it was the number one film for pretty much a six week block. So it's. Been
talked about before? Can it'll be talked about again? Can I just, can I just point out on this poster that we've got, Sean?
Yes. And every time we've seen this, it makes me go, makes my screen crawl, skin crawl a little bit a story as fresh as the girls in their minis. Mm
Oh, okay. Nothing like a little titillation to get people into the theaters about a movie. That's right. That involves not viewing girls as titilatting. Yeah.
Anyway, and on television, we've been trying to look at the Nielsen ratings as a yardstick. Star Trek's second season averaged about 11.5, but the top shows of the year we're getting 27's and 26's. That would be shows like the Andy Griffith Show and the Lucy Show, but. Moving further down the list at number 22, still earning a very reasonable 21 on the Nielsen's is another one.
Another one of those shows, Matt, that's just like out of the mirror universe. Did you ever hear of the show before? Yes. We're talking about the FBI. I have heard of it. I have never seen it. I think it suffers from. From my perspective, a lot of the shows from this era, there were certain programs that did not transition into color, and it put them into less circulation and syndication, despite the fact they may have been well received earlier. So yeah, this show was on ABC from 1965 until 1974. It started Ephram Zimbalist Jr, who was a well-known and well-established actor, Philip Abbott and William Reynolds. It had 241 episodes and it followed a group of FBI agents who were investigating threats to the American government and amongst the consultants was one J Edgar Hoover, which I.
That's right. He served as a serious consultant until his death in 1972. He never appeared on the show, but one of the main characters was supposed to be one of his lieutenants. So it feels like it's very much in the vein of a law and order style show, but until reading about it here, it's one of those programs that just seems to have fallen into, uh.
Memorable. A little bit off the main path often to often to a side alleyway and forgotten about. Yeah, for, for the most part. And in the news, we've been looking at a lot of Cold War, a lot of Vietnam War, a lot of questions about how is victory defined, especially in the, in the Vietnam context, which I think the Vietnam context is sort of the foreground version of the Cold War context.
How do you define victory? If victory is not defined by, we want a battle. And they were trying to say, Vietnam is not about winning the fight. And of course that didn't sit well and it wasn't easily digested. And I think a big picture that was also something that was going on. How do you define victory in the Cold War when it's a Cold War?
Well, here we see a major headline that is revolving around exactly the opposite. That's right. We're talking about the Red Sox winning in a playoff game to, or the World Series to even the series, they would go on to lose. St. Louis would win this World series, but that is taking up a huge portion of real estate on this front page, but wrapping around it, well, yes, Thailand doesn't want the Vietnam War to end.
They, they want the bombing to continue. There are jets shooting each other down over Southeast Asia. The Pentagon is ordering an end to spending that falls into pork barrel politics and a smaller headline toward the bottom. A poverty program is passed by the Senate. You can see the importance of the conflict in Vietnam and the desire to redefine what victory looks like and who is supporting what? The fact that Thailand didn't want the bombing to stop, well, they are a neighboring country, and there was the domino theory in full effect. Everybody worried that, well, if Vietnam falls, that all of Southeast Asia will fall and below that story about Thailand.
I thought it was interesting. A little headline. 23 Senators Ask Asian Help in War. There was a bipartisan group of 23 senators in the US Senate who came together and pushed forward a resolution in which they were calling for more support from Asia in fighting this war. They felt the US was overrepresented in the combat, sort of analogous to current arguments around Nato.
It's this argument of why is One Nation pushing forward so much support? Well, I think that there is the desire for equity, but there is also who's the biggest kid on the block. So that's what's on display in that headline I think. On now to our discussion about this episode, Mirror Mirror, Matt, we talked last week about the Apple and.
My discussion largely revolved around, yeah, this isn't good. I don't hate it. For some reason, from just an emotional perspective, I was like, yeah, I'm watching a bunch of people wander around with antennas on their heads. You landed firmly in the, this is awful camp and yep, here we are now in Mirror Mirror.
Did it strike you that it will feel like we're talking about a completely different series when we're talking about this episode?
Y Yeah.
Yes.
Because this wasn't awful. This is, it was like a record scratch, you know, like where you go from like the quality swing is just so dramatic. Um, I don't think this is the best episode though.
I, I have issues with it, but I, but I was, I was entertained, like my attention. Start to finish. I didn't flag. I enjoyed myself. I forgot how good it was. Like in my, I think part of the problem I have, Sean, is I am mirror mirrored universe out. Do you know what I mean? Like, every other Star Trek dips into this.
Well, every single one of them there
was. Yeah, there was. And
it's like, it's like enough already. Just let it, I I never, most of the time do not super enjoy those episodes. They're kinda like write off episodes for me. Um, 'cause they typically don't have an impact on the main universe, the main storyline, that kind of stuff.
It seems to be done more because it's a fan service than anything else, and they're forgettable and I forgot the first one. That's pretty good.
Yeah. Pretty fun. Yeah. That's the thing is that this one sets the trend that everything else is referencing. Yeah. And everything else comes across as. I mean, there's always an element of, oh, those shows are inspired by, therefore, they're kind of a lesser copy or lesser version of the original.
And that is heightened when you have the mirror episodes because you know, love it or not, there are episodes of Next Generation that are just head and shoulders above the original series. Oh yeah. But that was the one series that didn't do a Mirror Mirror episode. Just all the other series did. Yeah. And all the other series have that kind of like, uh, yeah.
Okay. They all feel a little samey. What I find interesting is when they do do a mirror episode, they end up having to copy this template pretty closely, which is interesting because what this template does. It operates at both a high level and a cartoonish level at the same time in such a way that neither one of them outshines or bogs down the other.
This is a high concept questions. The questions that came across my mind as I was watching this are questions like, who are you? Who do you think you are? Who do you want to be? The aspirational questions around Kirk. Around all the members of the crew, who are they? Who do they want to be? In the main universe, the prime universe, it's clearly laid out.
They are explorers. They are. They are looking to find information that they don't yet have out of sheer curiosity and hope to move forward in what they know. In the mirror universe that is turned into. Power. It is turned into strength. It is turned into, I want to be the leader and the hierarchy of moving up in rank at this point that hasn't been made a Klingon trait.
But it's on display here, and we understand that that is not palatable. There's a kind of shorthand at work in Yeah. If you, if all you want is to move one rung up, that doesn't make you a good person. It's kind of a, an understood perspective. So there are these big questions about what does it mean to aspire to greatness?
What is greatness? How do you define achievement? How do you find who you are? And at the other end, it is mustache twirling. It is literally you put a beard on a Spock, you got an evil Spock, you put a scar on a Sulu, you got an evil Sulu. You get in the cast list, the guest stars, some of the guest stars names were Chekhov Henchman. Yeah, just the idea of a Chekhov henchman struck me as funny. I like the fact that this is the first season in which Chekhov has appeared. It's still very early in the series. As far as his appearance, this is, what did I say? It was the fifth episode of the season, so at this point, the fourth episode.
So at this point, people have only seen Chekhov in a handful of scenes. But they get the evil version of Chekhov in this one and the evil version of Chekhov in this one. He is a sociopath. There's a nice twist to to the performance here of Yeah, the malevolence with which this young character, this new character on the show, presents himself as so evil.
You get the dynamic between Sulu and Uhura in a way that is never hinted at in the prime universe, but his smarminess and the scar that he bears kind of speaks to like, this guy's done some stuff and it's the simplicity of mustache twirling of just like, and now I am going to be the bad guy. Yeah. I find that balance works so perfectly in this, and I think that's what makes some of those later episodes lesser than.
Because they aren't able to achieve that balance in quite the same way to make it feel real. This feels, even though it's got that cartoonish element, it feels as grounded as the main universe. Well, do you agree with any of
that? Sort of, but not, um, I think part of the reason it works so well here is they don't overthink it.
They don't overthink it. It's like they're not trying to explain a whole bunch of this other universe. It's just a bad place. Yeah. And it's just them trying to get back home again. That's it. Don't overthink it because if you do start to think about it, Sean, it makes no sense. It makes zero sense. 'cause like if you've seen the show Dark Matter on Apple TV plus, which is based on a book that does parallel universes in a hard sci-fi way, and it's that whole thing of like.
Parallel universe, that's like one step removed from you is gonna be like this, where it's like you still have the job you currently have in your current life and all the people that you know are still kind of doing sort of what they're currently doing, but it's just a little off. And the further you get away from yourself in that spectrum, things get wild, fast and get crazy.
And you might actually be dead in that universe and or you might be at a janitor or you might be doing something completely different. And it's like all this kind of stuff happens the further you get away. In these parallels, right? And this, everybody is in the exact same place they are in their current universe, and yet they're so fricking far off from what this current universe is.
It's like I, it's like, no, no, this doesn't make sense. Kirk wouldn't be on this ship. You know, Uhura wouldn't be at that post. Sulu, his scar. He'd be on a different ship. He'd be, or he'd be dead. You know, it's like, it's like the idea that everybody is just exactly where they are in the current universe. But they're just moustache twirling evils.
Like you can't overthink it. It's just, it's just a bare bones cartoon plot that's just to make you think of like, oh wow, that's interesting, but don't over, don't overthink it. Just enjoy it. Just let it watch over. That's why I think, I think that's why it works where the, where the future shows, they try to explain stuff.
They try to think about it, and that's when it's like, what are you doing? That's not the point of this. You've, you've totally missed the point and why they kept going back to that well. It's not a well worth going to 'cause there's not a whole lot there. There. Yeah. And the only show that I think got somewhat close to figuring it out was Discovery with Georgiou and like the original captain of the ship who actually was from the Mirror universe and he was trying to do nefarious stuff 'cause he was gonna take his discoveries back to his main universe, his universe.
It's like that kind of stuff. That was interesting. That was like a new way to kind of rethink this aspect. Mm-hmm. But like all the other ones just kept doing the same formula and it just felt like an also ran and it, it was overthinking it where this one, they didn't overthink it. Just cartoon level thinking.
Interesting idea. Which rolled well.
I think that's where I think there is more overlap between what I said and what you said, because I think that part of the not overthinking it is that the goal is more metaphysical. Than literal. Yes. And I don't disagree with Discovery did a good job with telling a story there.
I think that the other, I don't like the cartoonish elements of how Enterprise did it, because it fell back into the same things, the same tropes we see in this one where you give somebody a scar and it's supposed to be now like, oh, he can be the mustache twirling engineer. But I did like conceptually what Enterprise did.
With,
yeah.
Yeah. The mirror universe being disconnected from time and they're getting a hold of a spaceship that is in an episode of the original series that we'll see in the future. So it's like there are some conceptually neat ideas in the me mirror universe, but the depiction becomes troublesome because like you said, they get bogged down into, well, how does it work?
And it doesn't have to work. It can be. No different than in Shakespeare. The fairies show up and they sprinkle dust on the characters and the characters all turn into cartoonish versions of themselves to play out a story. It is ultimately, this feels like you are watching a story, but it works because I think one of the ways that this does work is it doesn't try to do, falling back into your saying of like, don't overthink it.
They don't spend anytime following what the mirror versions are doing in the Prime universe, nope. They very quickly hand wave it away of like, it's easier for somebody who's civilized to pretend they're savage than it is for the Savage to pretend they're civilized. They don't even show you Savage Scotty, McCoy, or Uhura doing anything.
All you see is a very funny scene of Kirk being dragged through the hallways saying, I'm the captain, and in this way that's just like so overblown. It's just like, this is like, that's all you need. That's all you need. It doesn't try to make it make sense from that side, and I appreciated that. I like the fact that this entire story takes place within the mirror of universe, and I like the fact that we don't have Spock there.
I think it's, I think it's a nice touch that it is not just McCoy and Scotty, but I like the fact that Uhura is there. I like the fact that she gets a lot of good screen time. What did you think about how she was given screen time, what she was asked to do and how she
did it? Oh, it was great. Like, I loved it.
Like, uh, when she basically went to the captain at one point and said, and she was about to say, I'm scared. Yeah. She just went, I'm, and he just like put his hands on her shoulders and basically was saying to her like, you got this, you can do this. And it was just like, it, it rang back to, uh, Strange New Worlds to me.
It was just like that fit, it fit like that moment. It didn't feel disjointed. It was one of those, Hey, one of these new shows actually made this show again. It made it better 'cause here we go. Yeah. And so her screen time was fantastic to see her trying to distract Sulu and her like she actually had agency Yeah.
In this episode, which was really nice to see. Um, the other thing I really enjoyed, not just with her, was when they first beam onto the evil Enterprise. The unspoken, how quickly all of them were like, what's going on? Yeah. And then they just kinda like, they all get really quiet and they're just observing and how fast Kirk is like, I don't know what's going on.
I gotta play a little quiet here 'cause I. I don't wanna step into something. 'cause clearly something's screwy and he basically doesn't say a word and just kind of agrees with people just to get himself outta that situation as fast as possible. Yeah. And how behind them, like I think it was Uhura like, was like, what's going on?
And like Scotty just kind of went, Scotty grabbed her. Yeah. It just kind of put his hand out and just kind of like shook his head subtly. Yeah. How fast the entire crew was just like on it. Yeah. I thought that was like a great scene. It shows their intelligence, their awareness, and yeah. This, it's, it's for me, the characters of this, I'm glad they focused only on our universe characters.
Yeah. And not the other, for that exact reason. It was like, yeah, let's build these characters. Let's see how the relationship works. Let's see them being good at their jobs. Yeah. And good at problem solving and getting out of the situation. That's all you needed to do. Kept it focused. Yeah.
Yeah. It gave each of them an opportunity to demonstrate who they are at their core.
Yeah, you get, Uhura going from, effectively, I'm scared, and this will be a aspect of her character in this series that will be revisited in a later episode, which is one of my favorite scenes with her. But her talking about like where she draws courage from and how she draws courage. You get to see her.
She's walking onto a bridge where she is the only woman and she's the, she knows she's alone. Everybody else is either Captain Kirk or. Scotty and McCoy basically walking around holding hands throughout the entire episode. She's by herself on the bridge there, armed security men at the door, and she is being viewed as prey.
It is obvious the sexual component at play in this episode is one where women are clearly viewed as trophies, and so she's in danger from that perspective, and she goes into the bridge. She holds her own. She manages to demonstrate when to use the blade literally, and when to play it off in order to get what she wants.
She's masterful in that. McCoy gets the scene where Mirror Spock is going to die unless he does something and he wants to do something. He doesn't want a man to die just because he doesn't want that to happen. And you get such a nice moment of you've got your five minutes like, like this is still Spock.
Like I can't let him die. And for Scotty, you get him walking around, kind of like half speculating of like, yeah, I guess I could build a way to do that miraculous thing, which shouldn't be possible, but I'll do it anyway. You get to see the miracle worker. So all of that. But for me, one of the best scenes in this is Kirk talking to Mirror Spock, in which the two of them are basically within the mirror universe revealing that they have the same camaraderie.
Even though one of them is the mirror version. Yeah. They're talking to each other in not even hidden terms about what conflict between the two of them would be like. And in that moment I couldn't help but think both of them are thinking about the fact, like I couldn't help but think mirror universe Spock has lost at chess to his Kirk.
Yeah, like it felt like I was watching two versions from different universes and they were playing it off as if both of them knew that Kirk has bested Spock. Yes. And the beauty of the, I think you would find me a formidable opponent and Spock, I think you would find the same of me. And it's not born of animosity for Kirk.
Kirk is in that moment, whether this Spock is aware of it or not. That Kirk, I think that's the turning point in the episode for me where Kirk realizes I can depend upon this person to be true to who I wish he was because he at base goes back to logic, which then leads to such a nice ending.
Such a nice ending of like, you've got to see the logic of this empire. You've got to see that this can't sustain itself and such a great way of utilizing that bedrock of all the characters, the only one who has bedrock beneath them that feels like it's true to both universes is Spock, is Spock. It's such a great, yeah.
I also like the fact that Spock says if you cross me and you kill me. I've got agents who will find you and some of them are Vulcan. It is this twist of like, there's going to be a devotion to getting my revenge that you won't be able to stop no matter what you do. And I also like the fact you get another Vulcan on the crew in the form of a bodyguard for this mirror Spock, there's that scene where he's got the guy over his shoulder.
It's another Vulcan. Yes. So clearly it's like I have to be able to trust these people. Yes. And I only trust this guy. Yeah. Really nice little subtle touches. What did you think about some of that stuff?
Oh, that, that stuff I was eating up because it's like of all, like I know I was kind of ragging on the future shows that do Mirror Mirror Universe stuff, but when they ever show that like the rebellion, Vulcans are always part of that because logic would dictate.
This doesn't make sense. We gotta stop this. So of course Vulcans would be part of it. And I like the fact that, I forgot that that was clearly a thread in this, like logic is dictating what Spock is, why Spock's going along with this. But at the same time, he's not going to, I. Agree with what's happening.
Right. And he will, when when he finds a path forward, he'll use it. And I just thought that was great to show that, that, that, that one line, I loved that whole thing about like, you know, and they're Vulcans and then the look on his face and reaction to that was like, oh, oh, realizing yeah, that's right.
They're gonna come after me and they won't stop.
Yeah. I also wanted to talk briefly about Marlena Moreau. I like her as a character in this. Yeah, I thought that there was a lot about that character. I really thought it was compelling. Like I said, women are depicted as trophies very obviously in this I. But they're not trophies because they don't have capacity.
They are trophies because the world has put them in a second tier position. She talks aggressively and clearly and logically about how she is playing this game in order to bring safety and strength to herself. She says, I'll go through the entire fleet if I have to, to be a captain's woman. There is an aspect of the ruthlessness that.
The mirror Kirk clearly demonstrates, she has that as well, but hers seems to be honed in a way that has to play subtler than the men in the mirror universe do. And I like that aspect that she's actually a little bit smarter probably than the mirror Kirk, because she has to stay one step ahead of somebody who can shoot from the hip.
And she has to be able to balance that. And I love the ending here where Kirk is making his impassioned plea to mirror Spock of think about what you're doing, think about what the future holds. There is a tool in my quarters that could make all of this easier for you. Implication. He's also saying all of this to Moreau.
Yep. It's obvious he's saying the two of you should talk. The two of you should figure something out here because she can get you access, you can have that tool, and I find it fascinating that in this moment Kirk is basically saying You should kill my mirror version. Like, yep. There's no hesitation to say like, yeah, my mirror version is probably a super dick.
You should kill him. Take Captain, take the captain seat, and like you've got this great tool at your disposal. You can really, you can get a lot done. Yeah. I love that ending. Me too. I thought it was a good, a good wrap up. So viewers, listeners, what did you think about this one? Did you land in the same terrain that Matt and I did?
This is one that is usually voted near the top of the best of, in my research, I saw a couple of different lists that all put it at number three. It's, and I don't disagree that it's in that rarefied air within the top 10. This is one that for me, knocks it out of the park. Do you agree with that or do you see something here that you wish it had done a little bit differently?
Jump into the comments and let us know. And while you're there, don't forget wrong answers only next week's episode. Deadly years. What are deadly years? What's that about? Let us know if you're interested in finding out more about my work, my writing. Please check out my website, sean ferrell.com. You can also just go directly to wherever it is you buy your books.
That includes everything from Amazon on down to your local library. My books are available everywhere. Matt, what have you got coming up on your main channel on Undecided? The,
the battery rut that I'm stuck in right now continues, Sean. Uh, I've got a video out about batteries that run on sugar. And are compostable.
Wow. Sweet.
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