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Meet the hosts and get an overview of the historical context of the text, the structural layout of the chapters, and major topics in Isaiah studies.
Show Notes
Meet the hosts of The Study Podcast - Dr. Paul Wegner and Tyler Sanders! More importantly, get to know Isaiah! Get an overview of the historical context of the text, the structural layout of the chapters, and major topics in Isaiah studies.
Creators and Guests
What is The Study Podcast?
The Study Podcast is an in-depth look at the Bible with Dr. Paul Wegner and Dr. Alex Stewart.
Tyler Sanders 0:00
Welcome to Study Isaiah, the podcast where we examine the language, historical context, and meaning of the book of Isaiah with Dr. Paul Wagner. Because this is the first episode, it's time to get to know the voices you'll be hearing. I'm Tyler Sanders, Director of Communications at Gateway Seminary, and Dr. Wagner is sitting across from me. He is a distinguished professor of Old Testament studies at Gateway, prolific author, he also contributed to the ESV Study Bible. And he has a new commentary coming out with Tyndale on Isaiah. Thank you for being here. Dr. Wagner.
Paul Wegner 0:32
Well, thank you for having me.
Tyler Sanders 0:34
So I had a few questions for you, so listeners can get to know who you are. And I guess the first one would be how did you get interested in studying the Old Testament?
Paul Wegner 0:42
Oh, this is funny, but when I was in seminary, I felt like I thought more like an Old Testament Professor than a than a New Testament professor, because I because at that point, it seemed like New Testament was really into philosophy and stuff like that. And, and I just didn't think that way. I, I felt like, I understood the Old Testament, much more realistically, and, and that way, so that's why I enjoyed it. And I did well in Hebrew. So that kind of help both of those areas. So there's the language part of it. Yeah.
Tyler Sanders 1:18
To you were into Hebrew. Yeah. Okay. That's, that's great. What about Isaiah, what was particularly interesting to you about?
Paul Wegner 1:26
Oh, well, I started that when I started doing my PhD. And my supervisor, whose name was Ronald Clements, had just written something on Isaiah. And I always was intrigued with the book, and especially those passages that I had no idea how the New Testament understood them. I mean, it seemed like they were taking them out of context. And so I thought, that'd be a really interesting idea to try to figure out and so. So it usually, a lot of times you start your dissertation with questions that you have about certain areas, and this one was one that really excited me.
Tyler Sanders 2:03
Was there any other like, area of Old Testament studies that you were interested in? Before you got into Isaiah?
Paul Wegner 2:13
Well, I've always enjoyed Old Testament theology, you know, seeing the how the whole book fits together and how it's related to each other. So I did enjoy that. But Isaiah kind of puts all that together, it seemed like,
Tyler Sanders 2:27
Okay, this is more of like, an opinion question, I guess. Do you think people are intimidated to read the Old Testament?
Paul Wegner 2:34
I think so. Because they hear a lot of sermons and stuff like that on the New Testament, if they hear about the Old Testament, usually, it's just an illustration for another, you know, they hear about the story of David or knowing the flood and stuff like that, but they don't really have a concept of how it all holds together. And, and kinda, you know, where did these people come from? They they just pop in, and you hear this story? And then that's the only thing you hear about them. And that's not really the way it is. So I think it's I think it scares people that they don't, they hardly ever hear about it. So it's, it's hard for them to under didn't have a good clue as to how to put the book together again.
Tyler Sanders 3:14
That was, that was my sense. I think before I came to seminary, it was like, I had heard a lot. I really became a Christian. I grew up in church, but I became a Christian more, right before I went to college. Okay, and I remember the first book I read was Romans, of course. Yeah. John. But Like you hear a lot of New Testament, you're just like, that's where a lot of people preach the Bible studies call, especially like college level stuff. There's a lot into that. Yeah. You're gonna spend a lot of time there. And I think when I was looking into seminary, it was kind of like, I don't know, I don't think I know very much about this. I can kind of get some of the smaller Jonah was my favorite book. Okay. And I started read that when I was like, a little kid, I just was really, you know, that was captivated me. But, you know, there was things like, we really just read like, the first few chapters of Genesis was, yeah, like, we would go like from there to like, songs. Like you skip so much stuff. Like there's a lot that was being missed. That was kind of hard to hear. It seemed like there's gotta be more to it. But then like, I would read an image be like, I don't I don't think I understand this. Or like, who what's going on historically, maybe that's another part too. Like we didn't really go over that very much and least in a deep level. I recall, you know, the history of that whole area of the So yeah, I think I think that's kind of what got me originally interested in it. And I actually was the same. I when I started a study same as you when I started to study Greek and Hebrew, Greek was kind of like oh my gosh, this is so like, not that. Hebrews uncomplicated as I kind of got it a little bit easier. Especially before I, you know, I guess I should disclose now I was one of Dr. Wagner students. I took a class in Hebrew exegesis class on Daniel, we translated the whole book, there were only three of us in the class three or four, including you, 33 students, and it was a challenging class in all the right ways. It was tough, but it was it was a good class, but it was, it was one that helped me, you know, put a lot together about how I understood the Old Testament. And if you recall, in that Hebrew exegesis class, because the other two students had had you for the intros, they were very familiar with your system, I was not, and I needed a lot of extra help. So for an hour before class, every week, we'd go to the classroom and like work out, you know, work on vowel pointings, all this kind of stuff, we work through those things. And I hope the podcast is a little bit similar to that this is kind of like the outside of class study of Isaiah questions. We're going to be getting into it in a little bit more informal kind of way. So having said that, let's get to our first segment. Okay, the Hebrew word of the day. Okay, what is the Hebrew word of the day?
Paul Wegner 6:24
Well, I thought that I think the I, the main idea of Isaiah is, will the people ever obey. And so my Hebrew word of the day is, I was going to do the word obey. But there really is no Hebrew word for obey. But you put together the word Shema, to listen or hear, and BA to so it's like, almost literally to hear in. And so is probably better to translate to listen to or something like that. But that that's the Hebrew word for obey. So you put those two together, and it's like to hear into something or to listen into something. And I guess the understanding is, is that if you actually are really listening to God, you really are going to obey Him, because it's a natural flow out of that if you're really listening. So I think that's where the word and the concept must come from. I like that, that's great. Well, let's dig into that a little bit. Okay. So if our Word of the Day really means to hear into to listen, who are they going to be listening to? Well, hopefully it was God, but all the way through Isaiah, you're going to have a lot of other voices. And a lot of times the kings are listening to other kings or are calling on a Syria, or, or Egypt for help, when they should be called calling on God for help. And so I think that's kind of the key of the book is, they've got to get back to actually listening to what God has to say. And they seem to keep doing real bad, and not doing that. But the good news is, at the end, they will and so the good news is, is by the end of the book, there's a wonderful future for Zion, because God has actually got people that actually believe in him and actually are obeying and are faithful to him. Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about the person Isaiah, okay, he was, we don't know a lot about him. But he's an eighth century Prophet, which means he's living in the seven hundreds, which also means he was he was married, because we know in chapter eight, he's got a wife, and he's got kids, actually, his wife and his kids are actually part of his ministry, because she's called a prophetess. And as far as I can tell, in chapter eight, what that means is she's having a child, and that child is going to have a message, that birth of the child is a message to the nation. So so she's called the prophetess. Like that. And then in chapter eight, also, it's talking about their kids being signs and wonders for the nation of Israel, meaning that their names I think, one is marshmallow hash bows, you know, we wouldn't hate to name your kids something like that. But it means hasten is the booty or speedy is the prey, meaning meaning destruction was coming very quickly. And that's basically what his name was. And so he was a message to the nation. Another one is share your shoe, and that means a remnant will return and that in in that name, they are a message to the nation of Israel. Even Isaiah means God, His salvation, and that's a message for the nation of Israel. So even their names are something that is going to tell the nation what they need to know.
Tyler Sanders 9:48
And is Isaiah speaking primarily to you say to the nation, is he speaking to the nation? is he speaking to the king or is that kind of end to the king? That is a message to the nation? How does that work? We
Paul Wegner 10:00
We think each passage is a little different sometimes, like chapter seven and eight. Those are those seem to be specifically to Kings. Well, they the seven is to a house for sure. And so but once a king if a king gets the message, and hopefully the people will too. But I think other other times, Isaiah realizes that the nation isn't listening. And so he'll go to a remnant and talk to specific people that will listen. So I think in different places, it might be different messages and to different people.
Tyler Sanders 10:36
Okay.
Paul Wegner 10:36
Oh, and one thing I didn't tell you is that Isaiah is we think he was a scribe Chronicles tells us that he was the one that wrote the oracles of us, Isaiah. So apparently, in Isaiah as younger life, he was, he was a scribe, which then would have put him in perfect, you know, situations that later when when you know, he's got a message from God, he can then record it and write it down.
Tyler Sanders 11:02
Yeah, yeah. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the historical context, surrounding Isaias life, what's going on in that part of the world?
Paul Wegner 11:12
Well, right before Isaiah, the nation was actually at a at a high point, they, they were rich, and they were during usyers time, Judo was was just doing great. I mean, they were the kingdoms north of them, like a Syria and Syria were pretty weak. And so what was happening is Israel and Judah had a chance to kind of expand and, and get stronger and stuff like that. And then in the north of Israel, Jeroboam, the second was their king. And so during those times, they were doing really well, and both of those rain for almost 50 years, one of them 52 years. But that means that also, if it's a real prosperous time, and stuff like that, they're also going to be probably wicked times, because people are ripping off other people and stuff like that. So that was happening. And so Isaiah was brought into a situation where, at least initially, it was a real prosperous time, but a very wicked time. But by the end of his ministry, Syria, had come down with with the northern kingdom, and pretty much tried to destroy Judah to get them on their side. And so he has calls on us Syria for help. And sure enough that Syria came across and wiped out the northern kingdom in Syria, both of them pretty much. And then in 701, so it's like a, it's like a perfect storm during Isaiah Stein. It he's got like a Syria was really a powerful nation. And he has it almost gotten the southern kingdom into all this trouble by by calling on a Syria for help. From then on, they're going to be subservient to them. So so he has did a real silly thing that actually put him in, under a Syria from then on, at least, for good 100 years. But it's during that time that Isaiah is called to be a messenger for God, it was it was probably one of the hardest times and probably the hardest time is when they go into captivity. But this is probably 100 years before that. And they're, they're in a pretty difficult time period. And, and God caused him to, in in during his time, the nation did listen to at least to some extent, because in 701, God delivers them miraculously. And even then it was something that that they they didn't, they didn't thank God for that or anything. And so it just was another 100 years before they're carried into captivity.
Tyler Sanders 13:48
It's interesting. That happens a lot. Yeah, I'm sure that's true. Well, you know, yeah, it does seem like that. That. That's a repeated kind of theme to get prosperous. And then yeah, then we don't really know. Yeah, right. You know, sure.
Paul Wegner 14:03
That's true. And I'm sure that's true today, isn't it? I'm sure.
Tyler Sanders 14:07
Before we get into the structure of Isaiah, let's talk a little bit about some of the literary. Okay, he needs to come in here. So I think there may be some some kind of terms we could look at a little bit. Yeah. Just to kind of introduce them for people to kind of know what we mean we say like chiasm and stuff like that. Okay, so I've got four categories here. I'm assuming you kind of help us sort of find what kinds of things we can be looking for people can look for whenever they're reading Isaiah. Okay, so one that I think will be people will probably know what this is, but they may not have the tools to look for it would be wordplay, and Isaiah. Yeah, so what are some examples of wordplay? What do you mean when it what does it mean in Isaiah?
Paul Wegner 14:48
The problem with word places a lot of times in English you can't catch him. Like there's two really interesting ones in chapter five. If you look at verseSeven, it actually says any looked for justice suck, but behold bloodshed. It's a word that sounds just about like it. And then for righteousness and behold a cry of distress. So in in Hebrew those are those are words that sound the like. But we missed that in English so we wouldn't even know that that was a play on words. So some of them are going to be so subtle, we'll miss them. Another one is in chapter seven, where he's talking about, it's in verse nine. It says the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is a son of Bramalea. Okay, here's where it is, if you do not believe, you surely shall not last. Well, we don't catch that at all. But in Hebrew, the word believe, and last are actually the same word just in different forms. So it's a plan that word that we actually miss. So word plays are things that unless somebody told you, you'd miss them properly. So that's, that's one thing that that if we've come across those, I'll try to point them out. Because it because I think otherwise you'd miss them. You know, in English, you can always catch them.
Tyler Sanders 16:08
Yeah, your best bet to catch word play, you're gonna have to have some kind of sources going through the I think? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Before we get too deep into all these different the all the different places we could go looking at as a, let's do kind of a little short overview of like, what are what are some important topics in Isaiah studies? What are some of the important things that you know, like if people pick up a commentary or maybe even reading like introductions, or notes on a study Bible? What are some of the important things that need to be talked about? I imagine authorship is one. Yeah.
Paul Wegner 16:46
And that one, I think we should do a whole podcast on because it's, it's a competitive thing. That's a big one. Okay. We'll do a whole a whole episode on that one. Structure. Yes, another big one, right. And we could cover that one, probably to some of the major sections of the book. I think the biggest division is after chapter 39. So after you've got chapter 39, you've got a gap of 150 years. And then you've got chapter 40. And, and it, you know, it talks in chapter 39, about them going into the Babylonian captivity. Look at chapter 39, verse six, the whole days are coming when all that is in your house, and all that your father's have laid up in store to this day shall be carried to Babylon, nothing. So we left says the Lord. That's the only thing they hear about Babylon. Most of the time, they're talking about a Syria a series, their big enemy, get to chapter 39. It mentions one thing, that one of these days, they're going to be carried off into Babylon. And then you start Chapter 40. And they're coming back from Babylon. So that's, that's why the authorship issue is a real problem. It jumps 150 years, and a lot of people argue, you just can't you just can't have something like that in a book. Usually prophecy is trying to help a nation understand what God wants them to know. Well, that is true. But I think also what God wants them to know is what's going to happen if they don't obey. And that's kind of what's happening here. So God's actually letting Hezekiah know that because he did a stupid thing by showing the Babylonians, all the riches in his house, what's going to happen is one of these days, they're going to be carried off into Babylon. And then chapter 40, comes and they're coming back. So so that's kind of the biggest division in the book. But there's other things is Isaiah has a really interesting structure. In that chapter one, there's an introduction. It says this, the vision of Isaiah, the son of Amos, concerning Judah and Jerusalem, which he saw during the reigns of USASA, Jotham, Ahaz Hezekiah, kings of Judah, that's a normal introduction to a book, most prophetic books, or you know, prophets have that kind of an introduction. But then in chapter two, one, you've got another one. It says the word which Isaiah the the son of Amos saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem, it's got almost the same things except this time, it doesn't tell the kings that are there. Then in chapter 13. You've got another break and another introduction. Look what it says the Oracle concerning Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amos saw. So you've got three introductions to the book. And I actually think they're matched by three refrains in the last part of the book. So in chapter 48, the last verse, it actually says this, there's no peace for the wicked, says the Lord. And then in 57, the very last verse says, there's no peace says, My God for the wicked, almost the exact same refrain. And then at the end, there's like a climax. Look at chapter 66. The very last verse
This is one of my strongest arguments that Isaiah wrote the book. Because you've got three introductions, three refrains, it'd be really hard for somebody who's building this in little, you know, bits and pieces, because that's kind of the most common view right today is that Isaiah, Second Isaiah kind of built upon first Isaiah and the book grew. But how is he going to do that when he's got this exact same structure in there that's matching each other three introductions, matching three refrains, either one author has to put that together at the same time, or I guess the other possibility is somebody at the very end could look at that and say, Oh, I can make a nice, nice structure here. So I guess that is a possibility. But it seems more unlikely to me. So it seems like that structure suggests that there's a unity to the book. So these kind of the three intros and the three refrains, that that really is a unifying feature, because that's also from what I can tell, right, those are in the first section in the second section. Yes. Right. Like so they would have been separated If people thought it was like, Yeah, first and second, Isaiah would be the Yeah, 30 912 39 and 4366. Is that what? Second Isaiah II what's funny is that even people today that argue for second and third Isaiah, they don't see that those refrains as an important part of the structure. And that it kind of surprises me, because that would that was one of the first things I saw is that these things are matching each other. So that and then there's a lot of themes from between, from between chapter one, and chapter 55, or 65, and 66, that actually, you've got them in the first chapter, and you've got them in the last chapter, and there there seem like they're intentional. So it's really, it's probably not helpful to think of Isaiah as like, almost chapters in a row. Really, like this isn't sections that are kind of like chronological or any, as much as they are like, this is an interconnected, yes, what kind of you got a little bit into but like, what are the specific relationships then that are happening between the first chapter and like that first refrain? There's like textual things that are happening there that are connecting them and know Well, what I would actually argue is that the introduction, the first the first chapter, that's that one actually can be dated pretty clearly, because it says in chapter or chapter one, verses seven, and eight is talking about Jerusalem, when everything is destroyed around it, but Jerusalem is standing up like a little hut in the middle of a field, well, that actually fits 701 perfectly. But then you get to chapters two through four, and it seems like they're talking about it totally different time period. So it would seem like to me chapter one is probably an introduction to the whole book, and then chapters two through four and then basically what's going to happen is that these. These themes are going to keep coming over and over again. So what happens in Chapter One is it talks about Israel being a real wicked you know, in terrible and and it's almost like a law court where he God calls the heavens and earth to come and witness that Israel is such a such a wicked nation. He says, he even says animals are better than that, because animals knows that knows the hand of their master, you know, who feeds them, but Israel doesn't know that I feed them. And so it's really funny. He takes that as an image. But but that passage, there seems like to me, it helps us to know when that's dated. What I was gonna say, though, is that that seem are so what happens, it's talks about them being wicked and all that. But then by the end of chapter one, it talks about God restoring them in there's a pally stroke, and we'll talk about that later. But there's a pally stroke in it that talks about the faithful Israel, or Jerusalem. It's called the faithful city. Well, it says it starts out faithful, it gets wicked. But then God in the middle of this, Pallister stands up and changes it. And he says, I'm going to be relieved of my end enemies and I'm going to clear out the nation so that at the end, Jerusalem is going to be a faithful city again. Well, that message of wickedness, there's going to be a punishment. And then there's going to be a restoration is is throughout the book. So chapter one says it chapters two through four isn't a smaller unit, but it actually says it chapters five through 12, which is a bigger unit. It goes into more detail about how. God's gonna do it. So it seems like to me there's these units that just keep going over that theme about Israel being restored multiple times throughout the book. And so I think that's the the key theme and how the book holds together. And then you get chapter 42 explains how God's going to do it, he's going to bring them back from the Babylonian exile. But that's just a small picture of what he's going to do, ultimately to Zion, he's going to bring her back to him, and people are going to bring money and all things design, and God's going to be ruling there. And it's just an amazing picture for the nation. So that's kind of how the book flows. And it just it just keep the first couple of chapters just keep going over the same thing only with more detail.
Tyler Sanders 25:45
So what does that do? Like? What is the repetition of that theme?
Paul Wegner 25:49
Oh, I think God's trying to tell us something with that. No, you I think he's trying to say, don't give up. You're in, you're in a mess right now. And, and things aren't gonna get better for a while. But ultimately, I'm going to bring you back. And I think that's the message over and over and over in that book. And I think that's what the book is trying to tell us in the restoration. And important part of that is listening. Yes, right. It's yeah, that's how that fits in. That's how that's gonna kind of come in. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now, I see on your on your slide. And I guess if you're listening, you can't see this. So I'll just tell you about it. Oh, that word seem, appears six times. And that's kind of a connective piece, right? It's a connective piece between one section and the next section. Yeah, let's go to chapter one, because that's where the first one is, in chapter one, verses 27 through 31. First of all, let me tell you where I got this idea. A guy named Gerald Wilson argued that there were seams in the Psalter. That hold held the five books together. And I looked at that and thought, well, it's possible, but I didn't didn't think it probably was a guarantee. But then I'd started I thought, Well, I wonder if Isaiah has and he seemed, and it didn't seem like what is happening is that the end of you know, we've got that that introduction in chapter one, verse one, then at the end, you've got this seam that connects it to the next part of the book, and it goes over the same ideas. So look at look at verse 27, Zion will re be redeemed with justice, and her repentant ones with righteousness. Well, that that tells us do things, Zion is going to be restored. And there's going to be a remnant that's going to be righteous, right that her repent ones. And then the third thing that's pretty clear throughout the book, is that the wicked are going to be punished. So look at verse 28. But transgressors and sinners will be crushed together and those who forsake the LORD will come to an end, surely you will be ashamed of the Oaks which you have desired, you will be embarrassed to the gardens which you have chosen, for you will be like an oak whose leaf fades away. And as a garden that has no water, the strong man becomes tender, his work also a spark, and they both burn together, there will be none to quench them. So you can see the verses 28, all the way to 31 are talking about what's going to happen to the wicked. So those are the three themes, the idea of a righteous remnant is going to come about, there's going to be a restoration of Zion. And we'll, we'll talk more about that. But then the wicked are going to be punished. Those key ideas keep coming up in every one of these seams. So that's where the first seam is. And now you can see kind of the theme. The the second seam is in chapter four, verses two through six. And it basically talks about the same kind of things. It talks about a remnant, if you look at verse two, it says in that day, the branch of the Lord will be beautiful, and glorious, and the fruit of the earth will be for the pride and adornment of their survivors of Israel, with survivors of Israel means a remnant. Okay, so that's talking about that. And then look at verse four, when the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and the purge of the bloodshed of Jerusalem from our midst, with a spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning. So that's that, that punishment on the wicked. And then at the end, it talks about God, dwelling in Zion and being there. So the idea of, there's going to be a righteous remnant, there's going to be destruction on the wicked, and there's going to be a restoration of Zion. So So those three themes just keep coming up again and again in these Now it's interesting, because I would have expected now here's here's the biggest flaw in my in my view, and I'm, I'm at least gonna let you know about it. I would have expected the seem to be in chapter 12, right before the third introduction, right? Because in the third, remember that third introduction, opens up another section, so I would have thought it would have been there. The problem is, is there's what I call a paly stroke from chapters five through Chapter 12 Chapter Five start
Soft with a song of the wicked vineyard, it ends with a praise to God for restoring the nation. So you've got there a structure that's so clear, I don't think Isaiah wanted to break that structure. So what he did in my mind is he takes a we're unlinking word. And the linking word is is found in chapter three, verse 14, it says, The Lord enters into judgment with the elders and the princes of the people. It is you who have devoured my vineyard. The only other place that that phrase devoured my vineyard is in chapter five, in the middle of that song, so I think what he did is he he had that, that 234. And there's a pretty good structure there. He's got the scene there, but he didn't want to interrupt it, you know, to break it and put chapters five through 12 there. So what he did is he put a linking word talking about it's you who have devoured my vineyard, and he links it to chapter five, verse five. So let me tell you what I'm going to do to my vineyard, I will destroy it hedge and it will be consumed. That's the same word for devoured earlier, then. So I think the linking word it's, it's the Hebrew word, but are. And it catches that. And so you're supposed to realize, this is where this pally stroke goat fits into. And so that's, that's my problem with, with the seam not quite fitting where it's supposed to. But I think it's because Isaiah had a bigger structure that he didn't want to destroy, to put the seam at the end of there at the end of chapter 12. So it's the one that's a lot more complicated. But the other ones, my next seam is in chapters 36 through 39. It's a big same, but I actually think the last seam is a big one, too, from Chapter 65 to 66. But it goes over the same themes. Zion is going to be restored, though wicked are going to be punished, and remnant is going to be delivered. The interesting thing about the last one is that remnant is going to come from more than just Israel. It's going to come from the nations. And you find that as it builds towards the end. Yeah, it's interesting development. I think so good. Because that means that it opens up the gods remnant to us, even in the New Testament. So it's going to be Gentiles even brought in in other nations brought in. So is
Tyler Sanders 32:27
that something else that's happening in the repetition of these themes? There's development? Yeah, I mean, of course, when we get more detail, yeah, that's obviously gonna happen. Yeah. But the idea develops as well.
Paul Wegner 32:38
Yeah. And every time it goes through another iteration, I'd call it guess it's going to be developed further and further, and you're going to learn more about it. And sometimes you're going to get new elements added to it. But it still keeps those same three ideas. Yeah. So I think it's really helpful to understand that big picture of how the book holds together, and that the seams are in there. And I've also got seams forge in chapter 48 and 57. To right before they've gotten there
Tyler Sanders 33:07
somewhat of a summary, I suppose to Yeah, it's kind of the idea. It's Yes, that's how or is that how maybe that's just a function of how people will recognize it. It's tight enough that it's like, oh, yeah, here's connective tissue.
Paul Wegner 33:20
Yep. So it's gonna, it's going to summarize the idea, but then it also sets the groundwork for the next thing coming. So it will actually introduce it sometimes if it's a word that's found in the next section, or, but it seems like it's now setting it up. For this next time, it's explained even more. That's very fascinating. Yeah, well, I think it is, it's helped me understand the book. And it's, I think, big picture makes a lot of sense. Then, you know, I told you earlier that there's some elements or themes that actually are in chapter one, and then in either chapters 65, or 66. One is Israel's rebellious, that's there, it's in both of them. They despise the Holy One of Israel. It's in chapter one in chapter 65. They worship on high places. It's chapter one, chapter 65, the wicked will be punished, Jerusalem will be redeemed how to become acceptable to God. That's not actually something you'd expect to be in both of them. But it is a description of incorrect worship is in both of them. And then that's contrasted to true worship. And then judgment is coming. It's in chapter one. It's in chapter 66, Israel will be honored that was in chapter one, and be in 66, and a remnant will be spared. So it's really interesting. I've got here that explains that in chapter 66, verses 20 and 21. Talk about that remnant coming from all nations. And so it says, And they will bring on your firstborn from all the nations as a great offering to the Lord. And I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites says the Lord, priests and Levites could only be Israelites, and only only certain tribes in Israel, now you've got him coming from all the nations. So it's really interesting. Now he's going to open up his people, to the Gentiles and even other nations. So I think that's interesting how he's done that.
Tyler Sanders 35:15
Yeah. Is it helpful to think of the sections of Israel, these kinds of subsections? Is it concentric? Is that kind of the way to think about it, the first section in the last section, yeah, have a special relationship. And then we'll add that
Paul Wegner 35:33
I think you've got the first chapter in the last few chapters, making sure that you know, it's a unity. So it's got the same kind of kind of themes in both of those. But then in between, remember, I told you, they've got that idea that Israel's wicked, they're going to go through punishment, and then they're going to be restored by God. Those are, those are more the circles that keep going through. And so you've got those talked about in more detail each time. Yeah, when you get to the last part, it's actually talking more about them coming back from already being punished. Because because at least it starts off them being in the Babylonian captivity, and, and that God's going to restore them and all that. So there's emphasized a lot more, they've already been through the punishment. Now that's going to restore them.
Tyler Sanders 36:22
Right. Yeah. So it's pretty complicated how these things are interrelated, I think so that leans in towards it being a very, like a singular kind of vision. Yeah, that's very fascinating. Well, that's very helpful. I had a few other things that I thought may be important that will eventually cover okay, and you can tell me if I'm wrong. It seems like the big one big question is how Isaiah, you actually mentioned this already. So I'm assuming it's you how Isaiah is using the New Testament? That'll be a big question. Oh, yeah, we start to tackle.
Paul Wegner 36:51
Yeah, it's not they're not all the same way. But Isaiah is quoted quite a few times in the New Testament. I think it's, I think it's like the third most quoted book in the New Testament. Yeah. So it's funny though, each one is handled a little differently. It seems like
Tyler Sanders 37:05
the New Testament handles Yeah. Isaiah differently, or yeah,
Paul Wegner 37:09
these passages that they're quoting. So we'll, we'll try to do it as we go through them and and try to see if I can explain how each one of them is doing. That's good.
Tyler Sanders 37:18
That's good. Another question about the nature of prophecy. Oh, yeah. Testament. I mean, certainly, we'll get into that in Isaiah. But that can be a cool one to kind of explore how how prophecy in Isaiah even compares to other prophetic messages in the Old Testament.
Paul Wegner 37:32
Yeah, Isaiah has one thing that's kind of interesting that actually, I think, I don't think it's unique. But it's, it's, it's actually really helpful for us to make sure that everyone knew that Isaiah really was a man of God, and that he was speaking for God. In chapter seven and chapter eight, you've got what are called short term prophecies. So they're going to be fulfilled in at the most to three years, something like that. And if you could trust Isaiah, for that, he was actually saying, what God told him to save for a short term prophecy, then you could trust him for the long term. So I actually think that was intentional in the book of Isaiah, where it's going to have some short term prophecies, and then some long term ones. So I thought, that's interesting. Private prophecy is a kind of a complicated thing, because sometimes you never know how it's going to be worked out. And so some of these passages like when we get into Isaiah 714, it's, you know, the, the New Testament picks it up, but you're going, how did he get that out of it? You know, and there's other passages similar to that. So the question then becomes, what is what is the New Testament author doing? And how is he understanding that Old Testament prophecy? But I think that'd be best when we get to him to try to explain those. Yeah.
Tyler Sanders 38:48
Do you have any other off the top of your head,
Paul Wegner 38:50
some of the themes are going to probably be really important, like, like, you're gonna see the title Holy One of Israel 25 times, I think it's 13 or 12 times in the first part, and 13 times in the second part. So that title is something that really is crucial. And in chapter six, Isaiah sees God sitting on the throne, and he's got angels around him calling Holy, holy, holy, well, that seems to have had an effect on Isaiah. And he seems to remember it the rest of his life, because from then on, throughout the book, he talks about God being that holy one, and that even at that point, he says, how, you know, he's a man of unclean lips and all that kind of stuff. And so, so I think Isaiah gets that that he is unholy and he needs to have something done to him at that point, if you remember, God brings it or an angel brings a coal on his from the altar and puts it on his lips and and then he can speak for God. So so that idea of the holiness of God seems to be scattered throughout the book. Zion being restored is is scattered throughout the book and becomes a major theme God as a warrior becomes a major theme in one of the chapters in, in the second part of like 63 I think it is. God actually comes from Edom with his, his cloak spattered with blood and said he was destroying the enemy's his enemies in Edom. And so God being a warrior's another strong image throughout the book. And so there's there's just seems like that those images that are really important, there's probably one other thing we should talk about and that's is the book of Isaiah is the text you know pretty certain because some people have, you know, there's some books that people have questioned significantly, but the book of Isaiah has what's called the Isaiah scroll, which is is probably the best preserved copy of the book of Isaiah and there's there's two of them there's something called Isaiah scroll a and Isaiah scroll be Isaiah scroll be isn't quite as well preserved. But we've got from Qumran, we've got some really interesting confirmation that the book of Isaiah is very accurate. Now, that doesn't mean there's not some questions on some of the passages, you know, some verse here or there. But the big picture is that it's there. And it's and it's a pretty certain texts, which is unlike some of the other books that we have. It's one of the it's it's got the most talked about the eschatology, I mean it it talks about No, not at all in the second part of Isaiah is talking about that future time period. Part of it is them coming back from Babylon. But a good share of that is also talking about what Jesus did. So that there could actually be, you know, this sort of suffering servant, you've got that in chapter 52, and 53. And that lays the groundwork for Gentiles coming into the family of God, him restoring Zion and peep nations flocking to it. So it would be amazing to I think, have some kind of a preaching series that explains those kinds of things.
Tyler Sanders 42:05
Well, that is kind of brings us to the end of our episode today. I think I do want to thank everyone for listening. And just one final question, what's something a person can read? What's one good source for a person wants to start digging into Isaiah,
Paul Wegner 42:19
I've got an Isaiah commentary coming out. So that's what I think would be a really good way to actually get into it. But there are also a lot of other books. John Oswald has done a great commentary to volume work on the book of Isaiah. And it's it's amazing, you know, it's, it's very thorough. It's a real deep dive, you'd call it because it's, it's very detailed. But I'm hoping that mine will also be more of a, it'll be a deep dive, but it also be more affordable. done as well. It's a two volume work, and they're both huge. So they're very expensive. So this one is going to be hopefully a lot more reasonable. So let's see.
Tyler Sanders 43:06
Well again, thank you for listening. And be sure to join us next week as we study Isaiah.