Defining Hospitality

What does authentic, people-centered hospitality look like?

In this episode, Dan Ryan talks with Margot Stern, hospitality entrepreneur and founder of Avenida Baja and The Hopewell, about her journey from global marketing at Mattel to building boutique hotels rooted in community and belonging. They explore how authenticity, storytelling, and resilience shape successful hospitality ventures and what it takes to raise capital, navigate local politics, and lead with empathy in a traditionally male-dominated industry.

Margot defines hospitality as creating a true sense of welcome, shares candid insights from her path as a female founder, and reveals how transparency, vision, and community engagement can turn challenges into opportunities for growth.

Takeaways: 
  • True hospitality starts with creating a genuine sense of belonging, when people feel truly seen and valued, everything else follows.
  • Embrace career pivots and unexpected opportunities as pathways to growth; every experience can build skills that serve future ventures.
  • Use storytelling and clear visuals to communicate your vision; numbers matter, but emotional connection inspires belief and investment.
  • Engage openly with communities and stakeholders early in any project; transparency builds trust and helps turn resistance into collaboration.
  • Choose investors, partners, and mentors who align with your values and vision, mutual respect is the foundation of sustainable success.
  • Innovate in how you raise funds and share your story; modern tools like crowdfunding and digital platforms can help you reach new, supportive audiences.

Quote of the Show:
“Sometimes things don't work out exactly the way you want and it can turn into something beautiful" - Margot Stern

Links:

Shout Outs:

🏨✨ Defining Hospitality is Sponsored by Berman Falk https://www.bermanfalk.com/ - Check out their impact page! 🌍🌱 https://www.bermanfalk.com/impact/ 

Ways to Tune In: 

Creators and Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Gabby Aloisi

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Margot Stern
===

Dan Ryan: [00:00:00] Today's guest is someone I'm very excited to speak with. She's a business founder, a strategic entrepreneur, and a versioning leader in our hospitality world. started off in global marketing in high level boardroom such as Mattel. She then helped lead a team at La Bohemia, Baja Hotel in Toto, Santos, Mexico as Director of Strategy. She's also a dedicated voice in the female founders and hospitality community. Currently she's the founder of two hospitality Ventures, Venita, Baja, and the Hopewell. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Margo Stern.

Welcome.

Margot Stern: Thank you.

Dan Ryan: And one thing I forgot to mention in the intro is I found my way to you via a former business partner of mine, Chris Wilkers. Chris Wilkinson. Shout out to Chris. Um, and he said, you know. There's this woman who's doing some really cool stuff, Dan, you gotta talk to her. So all of us entrepreneurs love to stick together and support each other.

So I just wanna say thanks to Chris for [00:01:00] connecting us together to hear about your journey and, and what's been going on. So thank you, Margot, for being here.

Margot Stern: Yeah, thanks to Chris. That's, uh, something we call Lauder Love, which is, uh, the grad school program we were in together, so.

Dan Ryan: Oh,

Margot Stern: Mm-hmm.

Dan Ryan: of Pennsylvania.

Margot Stern: Yeah. We were all in this sort of program within a program for, we call it the Island of Misfit toys, but it's basically people that have spent so much time outside of their own country that they're both a weird and b, bilingual

Dan Ryan: Oh, was it the island of misfit toys? Was it named Not before you joined or,

Margot Stern: now, I think like just me and some friends called it that, but I'm sure we

weren't the only ones.

Dan Ryan: And that, that, had nothing to do with your Mattel background.

Margot Stern: No, that was a coincidence.

Dan Ryan: Okay. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, most entrepreneurs, I think are misfits in some way or another because we don't fit a traditional mold of, or a path, right? Everything is a bit circuitous. We tend to have these crazy visions. And then what ma, what separates us is [00:02:00] we're able to take steps and make those visions a reality.

Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't work. Um, and I know I want to talk about your hos, your, um, entrepreneurial journey within hospitality, but before we do it, what does hospitality mean to you, Margo?

Margot Stern: I thought you'd never ask.

Dan Ryan: Well, I ask everyone, and I know you're being facetious.

Margot Stern: Um, I just keep coming back to the word welcome. When I think about hospitality, I think about the, uh, entire storyline around what it means to feel welcome, make somebody feel welcome. Um, when I think about it, literally in terms of a place like a hotel, I think about not just the experience of making someone feel like they were invited, you know, not just that, you know, they're there and now you're going to be nice to them, but actually what would it mean for them to walk through the door and feel like they were invited by someone?

Um, and then I think about all the ways in which you take care of someone while they're in your space, [00:03:00] um, to sort of reinforce that message and how special and wonderful that can feel. So I think to me, hospitality is a lot about what you do and what kind of space you create and how you talk to people so that they truly feel welcome.

Dan Ryan: your, your Mattel experience. So I, I'm sorry if I get, if I have the chrono chronolo chronology. Chronology incorrect, but Mattel, did that happen before or after your MBA?

Margot Stern: Uh, it happened after the MBA and before I completely side doored into hospitality.

Dan Ryan: Okay. So, okay, great. 'cause then that fits in with my line of questioning. Um, I, as I said, entrepreneurs tend to be these kind of visionary misfits right? Islands of misfits. Um, I, most of the MBA people, I'm just gonna say MBA people, just to make a totally general sweeping statement that I've met. Um, they [00:04:00] learn how to financially engineer, right?

I've always been an entrepreneur that can have an idea and bootstrap it and it's gonna work or it's not gonna work, right? And I've never been good at raising money and showing a return and feeling comfortable with my idea because it was such a crazy idea to begin with that I don't know if I would feel comfortable necessarily taking other people's money on that venture. But what I think people who learn to. Create performance, create capital stacks, show some sort of return. Um, there, a real amazing talent that in a way I kind of wish I had, I think it would've shortened my own journey along the way. Um, you got your MBA, you went into this corporate Mattel world. What made you, we'll talk a little bit about that and then what was like the lightning bolt moment that you said I need to change things.

Margot Stern: Okay. So, um, [00:05:00] answering your question about sort of finance

Dan Ryan: Actually, before you answer the

Margot Stern: Yes.

Dan Ryan: let me know if my wide, general, sweeping understanding of people with MBAs rings true at all.

Margot Stern: Oh, no, I got it. I, I got all of it. I'm, I can, I think I can handle the, the, I, like, I love a multi-stage question. Um, okay. So first of all, when I went to Wharton, I actually already had a non-traditional background, which basically means I didn't do accounting or finance or come from Wall Street. Um, and I really chose it for practical reasons.

Because I felt like in every line of work I was in prior to Wharton, which we will not get into on this podcast 'cause it's way too circuitous. Um, but I just, I felt like there was generally missing business acumen from a lot of different fields that I was in, like nonprofit and um, sort of social services.

So it, I had a practical intention. I was also really interested in consumer behavior, um, and psychology and sort of pop psychology and what makes people tick. [00:06:00] And I imagined that Wharton was gonna be this place where everybody wore suits and where it was like all men and they were gonna be really mean to me and I was gonna have to be like, tough.

So, um, and it turned out it was nothing like that. And what I did learn that I think was really valuable, um, to, there was a valuable skill that helped me do the things you're talking about, right? Like creating a pro forma, um, building a business case, selling someone on it, asking somebody to invest. I really have to say that that comes from the community.

And I know community isn't the first thing you think about when you think about Wharton or Harvard or any of these business schools, but actually what shocked me is that we were so interdependent as a class. We all work together all the time. You would constantly be sharing, this is what's gonna be on the test, or this is what's happening in the interview.

People helped each other a lot. And so you learn to rely on that help and that, um, I'm getting so warm and fuzzy about grad school, who knew? But, um, but that really, that, [00:07:00] that is really important. The other thing that Wharton will do it is it'll make you absolutely delusional about what you can accomplish.

So, um, two of my dear, dear friends. Um. Stefan and Davis founded Co Epoxy, which is this brand where they were like, well we're, you know, we're gonna do gear, like outdoor gear, but we're gonna have this sort of like, you know, socially good component of it. So we want it to be social impact and yeah, it's fine.

Like, we're gonna do this. And you, you look at that and you're like, but there's already Patagonia and eight bajillion other competitors. How are you gonna enter that marketplace? And you watch your friends go out and do it and kick butt and you know, now they're in every single REI, even internationally.

So I think when you have friends who are doing stuff like that, it totally distorts your view and understanding of what's possible and like, screw you guys because you got me into this mess. 'cause then I sort of was like, oh, I can also go out and, um, I will just develop this 27 bedroom boutique hotel and spa and [00:08:00] restaurant and I'll take it through a complete D one zoning variance, which I'd absolutely never done before.

And you just think like, well, I know that I, I know how to ask questions. I know how to build a community, um, and I'll figure it out. And so sort of for better and for worse, I think that's where I was informed by an MBA experience. It was like, okay, I, I know that it's about going to the right people, asking the right questions, figuring things out, and then, you know, the, sort of, the difficult part of that is the fact that I've now gotten myself into a very challenging and sometimes very messy career because I've watched all of these people that I graduated with go off and do amazing things, and I'm thinking, okay, cool.

Like, I can probably do that.

Dan Ryan: So, you get, you, you finish up at Wharton,

Margot Stern: Yes.

Dan Ryan: you go work at Mattel, which is a

Margot Stern: Yes.

Dan Ryan: that I would love to work at. I love toys. Like as, as a kid, there's a vision, there's a connection. Um, I know in the intro, I don't know exactly what you were doing in the boardroom, but [00:09:00] you're in a boardroom.

It's probably an important position. How do you get the courage to step out and be like, this is not for me. Like, what? And then go on this other path. So I know that you've, your other, um, classmates maybe inspired you to think differently and do things, but like, what was the moment that you were, you said, you know what? I'm taking a different path.

Margot Stern: I mean, I, that's very Hollywood. It wasn't quite like that. I loved Mattel.

Dan Ryan: okay,

Margot Stern: yeah,

Dan Ryan: back to

Hollywood, as you were talking about the, your vision of people in suits and everything. I, I had this vision of Trading Places and Mortimer and Mortimer and Randolph Duke. And then maybe you became like looking good Billy Ray, feeling good, Lewis

on the beach, right?

So you became Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy this other kind of more fun path I would say.

Margot Stern: Yeah, I mean, so I chose Mattel because it was structured globally, not multi nationally, which I don't wanna bore all your [00:10:00] listeners, but basically I wanted to leave the country. So now we're going back to language and Lauder and the whole goal of life, which was to not live in America. Um, but so I knew that the structure of that organization was such that once I developed strategic insight, um, at the headquarters, that I would be relevant to foreign offices sooner rather than later.

That's just not as common in other consumer products companies. I also was really interested in innovation, and I don't know if people know this about toy companies, but you're constantly actually not dissimilar from hotels, right? At a hotel, your customer is many different people. It's the parents who are coming to relax, but it's also the kids who, what are you gonna do with them?

Are you gonna have a kids club? It's you're marketing to newlyweds, but you might also be marketing that same hotel on weekdays to. Um, like a strategic offsite for a business conference. So, uh, toys is sort of similar. You're marketing to different users and groups, and then sometimes you're licensing. Um, that's not terribly unlike a management agreement, right?

So [00:11:00] you're licensing other brands and then you have this very complex deal on what those brands are supposed to do to kind of enhance that brand and drive more consumers. Um, so it, but I was there. I loved it. I, we were constantly innovating. We had like 400 new skews every season. Um, you're working with engineers, you're working with fashion designers, you're working with multidisciplinary deem what happened was actually just a simple phone call.

It was a friend of a friend saying, Hey, could you talk to my sister? She's acquired this boutique hotel, or this bed and breakfast in Toto, Santos, Mexico, and it's gonna convert it into a boutique hotel. And. Could you just like chat with her about marketing and business stuff? And so one phone call turned into another phone call turned into a few more, turned into, well, you know, would you just fly down here and kind of check it out?

Turned into, would you take a look at our proforma? Um, and then it was just supposed to sort of be a sabbatical and it kind of quietly became my life. Um, and so it really had more to do with the fact that Mattel at that [00:12:00] time was going through a lot of restructuring and they were hemorrhaging people and um, they kind of hadn't figured everything out yet.

And so the, I remember the HR director called and said, Hey, you know, you still planning on coming back in March or whatever the date was? And I was like, yeah, you know, I think so. And she was like, well, don't, sorry, I'm sorry. I know, I feel like I'm revealing too much about Mattel. But she was basically like, if you got out, stay out.

'cause the, you know, culture here is not very good. And they let go. My executive, uh, director, who I loved, she moved to a different company. So things were changing a lot and I was really happy and. I'm really inspired by what I was doing, and so I just kept doing it.

Dan Ryan: And then did you actually move down there?

Margot Stern: Yeah, that's the part where I thought I might be going crazy, but I did, I moved down there, I moved to this tiny dusty, now it's like very trendy, but I moved to this tiny town about, in, you know, 45 minutes outside of Cabo, which at the time, I mean, this was 10 years ago, even Cabo wasn't that, that developed.

Um, but there were dirt roads [00:13:00] still, and you, the power would go out all the time. So, uh, yeah, I sort of, there was definitely a point where I thought, you know, what am I doing with my life? But also it was invigorating and I did everything. I, you know, I built the website, I created our social media strategy.

Um, you can remember 10 years ago, Instagram was only just being considered a marketing tool, so it was very experimental. Um, I would sometimes serve breakfast to people like it. It was everything and it was really great.

Dan Ryan: When you were down there, did you happen to meet Harsha? Um, who's also involved in ILC?

Margot Stern: Yes,

Dan Ryan: Laqua

De

Margot Stern: I am.

Dan Ryan: Laqua.

Margot Stern: Yeah. She's a good buddy of mine. I love Harsha. She's amazing.

yeah,

Dan Ryan: guest.

Margot Stern: I met her later like a, i, I would say maybe five years ago.

Dan Ryan: Laqua. Michelangelo. If I'm Birch butchering your last name, I've been meaning to get Michelangelo on here too. Okay. So you're down there, you're creating or helping take over this new hotel, having [00:14:00] success. Right. At what point did you just.

Margot Stern: So the person that I met that was incredibly influential was Li Lambert because she would stay at labia. She was building the San Cristo ball. So we got to know each other a little bit.

Dan Ryan: Oh, and that's a great way to get inspired. Like your guys that went off to REI as

Margot Stern: Yeah. Only like,

Dan Ryan: bigger.

bigger.

Margot Stern: yes, very. She is incredibly inspirational and she, um. Just, she keeps sort of turning out magic in different ways, so it was really cool to get to know her.

Dan Ryan: Wow. Okay. So you have that up and running, you get back stateside and now you're like, I want to do this again. Right.

Margot Stern: Yeah. So, you know, I promise I'd be transparent on this podcast, but actually I, uh, I had, I, I helped this same ownership group launch a glamping business. Then I came up with the idea for my own hotel that was Venita Baja, which was meant to be sort of a hybrid remote work concept, which I actually kind of came up [00:15:00] with a concept for it before COVID, and then we launched right around COVID.

So, um. It's sort of, it's a sad thing to say, but it was somewhat fortunate that people really understood what remote work meant at that time. So that was very helpful to the business. Um, and then my mother got Alzheimer's and I had to move back to the states to help out with her. So it wasn't my choice.

It was not my choice to come back to the US and in many ways, the Hopewell, which is my current project, is an example of like a very big, big example of Love. The one you're with.

Dan Ryan: Okay, so tell us more about that. What do you mean by love the one you're with? Love, the one you're with as it pertains to the project in hobo New Jersey.

Margot Stern: Yeah. Well, I think, um, it's funny because I see so many decks and, and so many hotel projects, um, that are sort of sold as like this sense of place and, and really grounding in the local community and, um, tying in where you are as this sort of hyper-local experience. [00:16:00] I, it's not that I don't love that, of course I do.

Um, and of course I love the region that the hopeful is in, but for me, you're gonna see features that are a little bit transcendent because I, I'm a wonder, right? So I wanna bring this sense of whimsy and wonder from other places. And so that's kind of what I mean by love the one you're with, where I didn't really want to be back in the United States, in my hometown of Philadelphia.

It wasn't my first choice. Love it Here. Love my eagles, love our food. Love everybody. Yeah, of course. Um,

Dan Ryan: Enjoy sa.

Margot Stern: thank you. Um, anyway, so I, I, I'm not trying to knock it, but no, it wasn't part of my plan. It was, and I just, I don't know. I think it's important to know that sometimes things don't work out exactly the way you want and it can turn into something beautiful.

So, um, I was not planning on being here, but here I was, um, right before COVID, and there's a region here that some people call Bucks County. Some people refer to it as New Hope. It's actually a twin Hamlets, these two towns next to each other. New Hope in Lambertville. They are these old [00:17:00] river towns from the late 17 hundreds.

It's super historic. It's where George Washington crossed the Delaware during the Revolutionary War. So all these historic battlefield sites, um, it's very charming. There's old antique shops and beautiful old stone manners. Um, and I just knew I was paying attention to what was going on in the Hudson Valley and the Catskills and I just knew that we had that same appeal in this region.

It's very authentically countryside dynamic and um,

Dan Ryan: eq,

equidistant, you could argue maybe even closer

Margot Stern: yes, it is closer to New York City.

Yeah,

Dan Ryan: access,

Margot Stern: yeah.

Dan Ryan: mean,

Margot Stern: much easier to get to from New York City than the Hamptons for sure. Um, arguably easier to get to than the brick shares and the Catskills just 'cause it's a shorter drive. It's like an hour and 20 minutes west of the city and less than an hour from Philadelphia.

Um, I grew up spending holidays up there with family friends and these beautiful [00:18:00] old, you know, 16 hundreds and 17 hundreds farmhouses and I loved it and I just felt that it was weird. There wasn't a really great hotel up there. Um, there were lots of bed and breakfast. Those bed and breakfasts are full all the time, but there was no sort of hip contemporary farm to table hotel experience.

And so naturally I decided I had to do it.

Dan Ryan: And it's also just so beautiful there. Aside from the history, I feel like, I don't know why I'm having so many movie thoughts today, but I feel like was a Chevy Chase movie where he's like, cue the deer and like the deer run out.

Margot Stern: Oh, is it?

Dan Ryan: Did that take place in Lambertville as well?

Margot Stern: I don't think so, but now I'm trying to think. What is it? The great outdoors.

Dan Ryan: No. Oh,

I think it's Funny

Farm.

Margot Stern: oh, funny farm. Okay. Yeah.

I've done that, by the way, with investors. I've had investors on the property and I'm telling them about how, you know, we are surrounded by conservation land and we're immersed in nature and how guests really want an immersive experience.

And the deer will just go like de de de de de. And [00:19:00] I always tell them like, I paid extra for that for You

Dan Ryan: Okay, I have a bear. You can bring down there.

Margot Stern: Thank you. I heard yes.

Dan Ryan: the bear. Um, okay, so one of the things I'm really intrigued by is, okay, you brought up the, uh, the Hamptons. I was gonna say the hamsters. You brought up the Hamptons, you brought up the Berkshires, you brought up the Hudson Valley. So the Hamptons, I don't know, I, I guess it's cool I've been there.

It's, I guess fun if you're into that kind of thing, but it takes forever to get there and forever to get home. Um, if you're in New York City, uh, the Berkshires is close, closer, but it's mostly like older people. Mom, I love you, but like, like my mom who lives up there, right. And, but it's full of art, dance, music.

It, it has a lot of culture and, um. It just has so much to offer. I don't know why that's never caught on. But then this whole corridor, probably from where you're talking, Princeton, all the way up to Hudson Valley, to [00:20:00] the Berkshires, let's just say, um, is ripe for experience. And I keep hearing about all these Soho farmhouse type places.

I've been to the soho farmhouse out in the cotswalds that are gonna open, that are gonna open. And maybe if I've heard of ten maybe two have opened. What's the big hangup in your opinion with why you hear about all these things, but 20% of them come to fruition. I'm taking liberties with numbers, but what do you think makes your Hopewell Junction project the Hopewell seem different than of those that did not come to fruition.

Margot Stern: Well, so I think backing it up for a minute, um, if you look at London, um, as a precedent in and around London, there are many, many, many old countryside manners that they've done these adaptive reuse projects and turn them into really successful kind of countryside, luxury boutique hotels. Um, I think the idea of the country home [00:21:00] is very popular there.

And theoretically, you know, New York City itself alone could sustain many more luxury countryside retreats in and around the city. I think one of the reasons why you are not seeing it happen more aggressively right now is because it's really hard to develop in these areas. Um, you mentioned the Hamptons.

Uh, there's some other areas in upstate New York that have like the Hamptons, that have a really strong presence of second homes, and often those second homes are owned by people who have a great degree of wealth and influence over their communities. And also often those places are characterized by having very small townships or local government bodies, which means in theory, they're sort of easy to, how do I say this?

They're sort of, they're, when it's small, it can go your way easily. It can also go against you easily. And sometimes a small community or small zoning office can actually thwart you more than a larger one would, in theory, a larger and more urban. [00:22:00] Zoning department or township is going to be much more used to development and much more developer friendly and much more able to sort of see the forest through the trees in terms of like what's a positive development for the community versus what's not.

In theory, a hotel is really great for the community. It doesn't use community resources, so it's not using up spaces, in schools. Um, it's not relying on a lot of tax paid services. It's usually

Dan Ryan: well it probably

Margot Stern: Yes.

Dan Ryan: tax revenue to the, to the

township or town.

Margot Stern: Right. And it, but it just takes, you know, you, some of these towns in upstate New York don't, in the Hamptons and whatnot, they don't need the, they don't need the tax revenue. They're fine.

So, um, it can be really difficult. And that is something that I encountered. I acquired a property that was marketed as a bed and breakfast. It was not zoned as a bed and breakfast. Okay. So I had to go to the township, um, and say, this is my plan. I'm, I'm planning on converting this into a full fledged hotel.

Dan Ryan: you rec recall, after you acquired

Margot Stern: That was right around the time that I made an offer. So I go to the town,

Dan Ryan: Okay, got it. So

it's like [00:23:00]

Margot Stern: Um.

Dan Ryan: on

that,

Margot Stern: Go to the town, I say, you know, this is what I'm thinking. If you don't want this in your township, please tell me now. I do not wanna come in here and try to bowl people over. I have a vision. If you don't like it, I'll take it elsewhere.

And they said, no, we love this. This is aligned with our master plan. This is aligned with our priorities right now. We really appreciate that conservation is, you know, part of your, um, proposal, which it was and still is. Um, and so I, the one thing that was important is sort of getting the alignment from the town from the very beginning.

That is not to say that I had alignment from all of these citizens of the town because what ended up happening is there was a rival real estate developer who I, unbeknownst to me, had wanted to acquire the property, had sort of low-balled, the owner thought he was gonna get a deal, thought he was gonna turn it into some kind of rehab facility and set about absolutely trying to de destroy the reputation of this project.

So I mean like yard signs going [00:24:00] on Facebook,

you know, Facebook chats and next door and telling people that I was a big city developer from Philadelphia and I was gonna destroy the natural wilderness and I was gonna sort of ruin life as they know it. And that community, and it worked. People showed up at the zoning meetings and were going on and on about how I was gonna like kill all of the bears and uh, the turtles And

Dan Ryan: And were you there

as

they're doing this? Are you sitting

Margot Stern: I mean, it was on Zoom.

But yeah, it was really painful and really hard. And I think that a lot of, I know for a fact that some of the other developers who have tried to do things like this have gotten stuck. Um, maybe not as dramatically, but in some cases, like as dramatically, I know,

um,

Dan Ryan: pencil or it

doesn't even go forward. You're

done.

Margot Stern: where it can't go forward because it's just, they're gonna drain the resources or it's gonna get appealed 8 million times.

Um, and so I think what people don't realize about this business is it's, you know, it's really beautiful to imagine a hotel in an old countryside manner. It sounds like a great idea. You're sort of rescuing [00:25:00] this historic property. You are rein, vibing it with energy, and you're allowing people to go into the property.

So instead of being like a closed off place or a museum, it becomes somewhere that's living and breathing where people can go in and out every day. And many, many, many people, um, in this township were supportive of it, but just, you know. Just as many were not, or thought they were not based on the rumors that they had been told.

So it was really, really hard to get through those variance hearings. Um, and it caused the township a lot of pain too, because it was so small that, you know, people's neighbors might be against the project. And there were a lot of debates happening in people's, you know, homes and dinner tables. Um, I think it'll be really exciting when we prove that what we're actually, what we said we were gonna do is what we are doing, right?

Like we're creating this, um, very conservation driven, ecologically minded boutique hotel in an old countryside manner. No one will be bothered by it. [00:26:00] We've had traffic engineers study it backwards and forwards. Water engineers, if this is a place that does not make a negative impact on the community.

Most people are really excited about it. But we did go through that and I know that some of these other developers have gone through that in, in some of these areas of upstate New York. And, um, in, you know, the Hamptons we have, I had friends who tried to develop something there and they like stopped all developments.

So you just never know. It's really, that's why I think being a hotel creator and being a developer is sort of two different related things. And the developer part is just, it, it can be really hard.

Dan Ryan: So find this deal, you work very carefully to make sure that the, that the town and all the stakeholders around it understand your vision and how it's all. Accretive to what they have going on. And in align with, I think you said that with their master plan, you close on the deal and now it's like you, you would think that you're there now, but now you have to raise [00:27:00] funds to go about continuing pushing the deal forward. How, how has that surprised you in going from a large corporate entity and work to the various projects that you've done now where you have to raise How, how has the raising of capital helped clarify your vision and what are some of the challenges and

successes

that you've had with that?

Margot Stern: Um, I think raising capital is, I mean, this is not gonna surprise any of your listeners, but it's really hard. It's, uh, hard doing it as sort of an independent person, right? Like without a fund behind you or 10 different kind of, uh, projects behind you that have already produced returns, um, without a name, like some kind of entity that you might have worked for before.

So I've seen a lot of former GMs of really well-known hotel brands do well at this, right? But they can lean on like, look, I worked for the Ritz for five years, or I worked for four Seasons, or. Um, I was a GM of this, that, and the other, and that, like people, [00:28:00] that sort of helps. I think for me, I, I believe that in some ways I came out of nowhere.

And I think that the strength of the project itself has carried me through a lot of these discussions. If you know anything about this region, so many people sort of say, why isn't, why doesn't this exist yet? Why hasn't anyone done this? And the only answer is because it's hard. And that, um, can be a very winning strategy, right?

Because that creates a moat around what you're doing. If the barriers to entry are really high, there's some people that don't wanna get involved, but the people that do know it's gonna be really hard for someone else too. Um, so I think that that was, I think using, using the barriers to your advantage in the fundraising conversation are, is very helpful.

Um, I think building trust based on the way that you talk about a project is really helpful. So I, I think everybody has a different approach. I'm really transparent. I don't, um. I did not build a pro forma where I [00:29:00] assumed, you know, this much revenue from the restaurant and this much revenue from sales of mini bar things and this much revenue from the spa.

Instead, I built it on a very reasonable data-driven assumption on occupancy and a DR that I could back up with numbers. And then I sort of would surprise investors 'cause they'd, you know, like some of them would sort of wanna have this gotcha moment, like, well, arms crossed, like, how much do you think you're getting from your restaurant?

And I would sort of say, you know, I really built that model out as more of an amenity than a profit center. And that would make savvy investors lean back and be like, okay, she knows what she's doing. Not because I've done it 10 times before, but because it's, it can be helpful to show people that you are aware of the things you might not know yet and you're aware of the potential pitfalls and you've sort of mitigated those risks.

So that was my approach because I wasn't able to go in there and say, Hey, X, Y, and Z fund is backing me. [00:30:00] Um, and I, you know, I went to Cornell and I have, you know, and I worked at the Four Seasons for 12 years. Like, I couldn't say any of that. What I could say is I'm scrappy. I developed a hotel in several hotels in Mexico where, you know, it's not even in my first language, um, dealing with all kinds of cultural differences there, right?

Like, I think people could see really quickly that I wasn't going to go into this with my eyes closed. And, and I used that in, in, in sort of investor conversations. I built a very sensible model. I had tested sensitivity analyses and I was able to talk about the tremendous upside without seeming like I was counting on it.

ahead.

Dan Ryan: interesting about that is many hotels, if you have a hotel with multiple streams of revenue, especially on the independent side, uh, food and beverage could outperform, uh, I don't know, or [00:31:00] skiing or there's all these other channels that could outperform. The mini bar could. But when you go talk to banks or other investors, they only care about, they discount all that stuff so tremendously, right?

They really care about what the rooms, uh, revenue is based on occupancy and a DR and all that stuff that you shared. But what I found is like the really successful. hotels, and maybe not even independent, but just really successful hotels that are kind of a little bit farther removed from a city when done well, all the f and b can contribute between 30 to 50% of total revenue. So if you're talking about a, a, like a, a 50% surprise in the upside if, if you'd get the f and b. Right. That's, that's pretty exciting. And that's also a great way, great way to keep those investors on for your next project. Right. To, to under, [00:32:00] under

promise and over deliver. Right.

Margot Stern: Well, so you just, you just did it. You just beautifully demonstrated my, uh, investor strategy because you sold yourself on it.

Like I didn't sell you on how great our restaurant is gonna be, but

Dan Ryan: Well, it better be good.

Margot Stern: I, yeah, but I mean, I, like, I didn't have to sell you on the fact that of course we're gonna have good restaurant sales.

Right? There's not that much competition we're gonna do fine. It's, uh, you know, unless we produce complete junk, we will have very reasonably, uh, I think we can reasonably expect. Good restaurant sales. But again, there's the story you take to the bank and there's the story. You understand if you are putting skin in the game, and

my skin's in the game, right?

I'm invested in this project and I have some, I, I have investors now and all of them are really jazzed about the upside and trust that I have the skill set and the resources to manage any potential curve ball because I've managed such big ones already. But you just [00:33:00] did it. That's exactly it is. You sort of say, well, gee, Willie, I mean I, maybe we'll get good restaurant sales, but don't worry.

We've built our entire strategy on

hotel revenue. And so then your investors start looking around and saying, well wait, your, you know, chef partners have James Beard Awards and you sold tickets to your popup for $250 a person and people drove an hour just to pay that and eat here,

you know?

Yeah.

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow.

Margot Stern: More than once.

Um, and we had a wait list that 300 people along, 'cause we only allowed 30 people at the event.

Dan Ryan: I didn't, I didn't get

one of

those.

Margot Stern: I know I didn't know you. Then you can come to the next one. All of you can come, you all get a popup invite. Um,

Dan Ryan: a

popup.

and you get a

Margot Stern: yeah.

Dan Ryan: popup.

Margot Stern: No, but it, so that's like, it's a triumph for me, right, because it's not, I, I, and you and I talked about this a little bit on our sort of pre podcast call, but it's hard to be you, you know, I have to sell you on this vision, but I don't want to sell you on it.

I want you to wanna do it. Right. It's like, [00:34:00] it's, it's, I don't wanna be salesy, I don't wanna be inauthentic. I wanna be able to just be me and kind of tell you about it and have you say, that sounds amazing. Let me invest. I think, you know what's tough is you have to make your case. And I have found that I just try to make it in a way that is as reasonable as possible and then like tease the upside and people figure it out for themselves really quickly.

Especially if they've been in this region. And if they have, it's because they're from New York or they're from Philadelphia and they've been sitting around saying, why is there nothing cool

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Margot Stern: that area yet? Why is it so hard for us to find something? I will say, shout out to my friends. The Stockton Inn just opened and they did a great job and you should go stay there before we open.

Dan Ryan: Wonderful. Uh, and I did get picked that up from you, uh, earlier where have this vision. So in a way you're living your purpose opening this thing, but there is that as you're kind of introducing this idea and vision to investors, it can feel very transactional. [00:35:00] Right. But I also think that that's a key to anyone who's doing sales of any kind.

It's not so much about. The transaction. It's so much of like, how can you provide value to them? How can you solve a problem for them? But in order for that to happen, you have to, I call them collisions. You have to have a ton of collisions to people know what your values are, what your vision is, what your purpose is. And then, you know, out of a hundred, maybe you get two that are a good connection. Right. And that, that want to,

that

wanna

give you the chance.

Margot Stern: Yeah. You know, it's funny, I, I think the men that I've talked to who have raised capital, have sat in the room with many more people.

And I have,

so that I would say, you didn't ask this question, I'm gonna answer it anyway. But the difference between, um, like male developers and, you know, party of one over here is, I, I have talked to a lot of men who will say, you know, I took 300 meetings [00:36:00] raising $50,000 increments when I did my first hotel.

Um, and my second and my third, right? And only when I did a handful of projects did I start being able to sort of create a fund and reach out and have it all pre-funded. But, um, and I remember for a while I thought something's wrong with me because I'm not having enough meetings. Right? Like, the people I know who have done this, um, who have done comparable projects, they've been, they're meeting with multiple people a week.

And then I realized that that's what, when people talk about women and access to capital, that's what they mean. 'cause you don't have that same access. And I can't really explain why. I just didn't have as many people in my Rolodex. I don't know if it was. That I didn't have the right communities or that I wasn't a member of the right clubs, but I wasn't having that many conversations.

So the challenge for me has been I had to get a really high return on meetings 'cause I had very few. Um, and so I feel very fortunate that, you know, I was able to find my way to people. And I think that was part of it too, is like understanding who to reach out to and then, you know, kind of learning the hard [00:37:00] way who might be interested in a project like this.

And then it was hard to know, like what the ask is, is the ask a hundred thousand dollars? Is it $500,000? like really,

Dan Ryan: go, I guess,

Margot Stern: uh, I, I sort of, I have a friend,

right? I know $1 million. I know I, um, but I have a really good friend and she does a lot of political fundraising

and she.

You know, one of the, they wrote a Philadelphia magazine, did an a cover story about her a few years back.

And one of the things that really like applauded about her, um, is that she just is completely deadpan and she will ask for an exceptionally high amount and she will not bat an eyelash and it works. Um, and so I sort of, I tried really hard to just ask for the amount that I wanted and then I would of course be really apologetic when once in a while I'd get an investor who would sort of say, well, um, you know, that's a little rich for my blood, but how about a hundred?

Um, but I think, I think I've been fortunate. I think the project also has its own energy and I think it pulls in the right people. So I've, I've been really fortunate to find people early on who believed in it. And [00:38:00] the other thing that's been great is sometimes there have been moments where I'm doubting myself and I'm like, this is taking forever.

And I'll call an investor and say, well, I wish I had a better update for you, but we still haven't submitted site plan. And the investor will just say to me like, well, welcome to being a real estate developer.

So it's been so nice to have people. Team. And now we have some very seasoned hospitality investors. they actually build confidence. So just when I think that, you know, I have these investors who are, I'm imagining them to be like sitting in their living rooms, like, why isn't she dev?

Why don't we have the hotel developed yet? I've sort of actually will reach out and say,

Hey, you know, we had this,

Dan Ryan: No. That's where you have to channel Mortimer and, uh,

Margot Stern: I know we're really,

we're doing,

Dan Ryan: Mortimer, Mortimer

and Randolph.

Margot Stern: have so many movies going in this podcast. Um, but yeah, I, what I find is that actually when I, when I need, it's so strange, like when I start to feel frustrated about, um, some kind of benchmark or deadline that's getting pushed out.[00:39:00]

I will share it, you know, out of transparency and responsibility. I feel I need to tell my investors that actually it's gonna be another month, and they're the ones that build me back up. They're like, no, you, this is normal and great. Thanks for letting us know, you know, they,

Dan Ryan: Well, those are partners, not just investors,

Margot Stern: they are

partners. Yeah.

Dan Ryan: right. Investors are really transactional, but you're on a search for partners. I, I also, something just struck me that I loved that you said, which is you want to get a, I think.

Margot Stern: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: said high return on meetings

or be more efficient on meetings. And really everyone's most valuable resource is their time.

Right? So how can you be selective to not just find an investor, find an a, a partner, and then um, how do you sell them on the vision without really selling 'em on the vision for the tr for the transaction, to then ultimately get them to support you? 'cause you're supporting them in the vision and it's, I mean, that's really hospitality in fundraising.

I would, [00:40:00]

I think,

Margot Stern: Yeah, I mean I, some stuff is basic but maybe might not seem that obvious. Where like I, you're, I mean, for me, my deck, my like actual investor deck, my presentation,

it tells a story. It's very visual. Um, my assumption is always like, I'm not gonna capture your attention for that long. And so I have other financials that I can share, but I focus a lot on having people understand all of the different components and the visuals.

And really, I spent a lot of time pulling reference images and really trying to infuse people with an understanding of how this place looks and feels. I think it helped a lot more than I thought it would.

Dan Ryan: the vision?

Margot Stern: Yeah, I think it helped a lot more than I thought it would because I think people really understood.

They were like, I get it. I get exactly what you're trying to do, and I love it. And sometimes people would say like, are these images from the property? And I'd have to say like, no, those are from Tenana, they hotels that I really love.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. But, but

[00:41:00] it's

the vision. You can sell them

on the vision,

Margot Stern: Well, I was just gonna say then I think getting them there, I mean, the, the thing that I'm lucky about is that this isn't ground up.

This is an existing property, um, that dates back to the 1790s. It's a stone manner. The walls are two feet thick. There's an old barn that is absolutely magical. And so not everyone, but many people, once you get them out there, are just kind of taken with it. It's really beautiful. So I think that makes it easier.

Dan Ryan: Did George Washington

sleep there?

Margot Stern: I mean, I can't prove that he did, but I can't prove that he didn't.

Dan Ryan: As a Jersey boy, I'm just amazed at how in Northern New Jersey, how many places claim to have George Washington to have slept there. It's just unbelievable. May, but maybe he had

some of

his

troops camp

out there.

Margot Stern: I'll tell you, he crossed the Delaware, not five miles south of there. So he was around there. He probably walked across the property at least.

Dan Ryan: Someone in one of his

divisions slept there.

Margot Stern: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: [00:42:00] so just to speak to our listeners. I know that you said you, you don't have the hundreds of listeners or hundreds of meetings. Maybe you didn't have hundreds of meetings, you had scores of meetings. But this podcast gets listened to by thousands of people a month on a monthly basis, and then on social media and all that, you probably, I don't even know what the number is, but it's a lot. Um, it's a lot of people who are just passionate about what we do and why we do it hospitality. And I just wanna walk through our listeners. If you're not of the mind. Someone once explained this to me, I don't know if I'm right here, but if you were to buy like an index fund, like a stock index fund or a bond index fund, um, and you did some 60 40 mix, whatever the standard thing that you read about from Vanguard, you know, you're getting maybe an 8% return according to all those things, but it's liquid. Um, so you can cash out of it. You can have access to your cash whenever you want. And then a friend of mine, he does multifamily developments. [00:43:00] He always says, look. I'm not willing, I, I can get a higher return for doing multifamily at 15%, it's illiquid, right? So as an investor, you kind of have to make a trade off of, is that 7% plus or minus worth being illiquid in an investment.

And then hospitality projects within the realm of commercial real estate usually have to show higher, 20% plus or minus, usually on the plus side. So again, it's illiquid, it's a bit riskier, but when done well, the returns can be outsize. So I'm not advocating for in this project or not, but I'm just curious if, like, what does your performance say as far as a

rate

of

return?

Margot Stern: So we have a target IRR of 20%.

Um.

Dan Ryan: Oh,

Margot Stern: We have that listed. We, we have that backed, like I said by um, pretty compelling star data for our occupancy rates in our a [00:44:00] DR. If you look at comps in the area, even if you don't believe anything else, if you just look at comps, even at small properties, even at small bed and breakfast or non-luxury or select service, you're gonna see rates that are a lot higher than our rate at stabilization.

So even in a very rational sensitivity test, you can get to a higher a DR and reasonably higher occupancy rate. Um, so most people are really comfortable with that. Again, upside is the restaurant, it's the spa, it's the private membership. Um, it's the weddings, it's the corporate retreats, right? Like there's a lot layered into a business model like this.

That we're not necessarily taking credit for when we are just presenting our numbers to a banker investor. So

I think most people understand that, even just back of the napkin.

Um, but I'm so glad you brought this up because I was actually, I think I told you earlier that, um, another [00:45:00] shout out, but I was at the Indie Congress this past week, which is Andrew Benioff's Brain Style.

Dan Ryan: Yeah, that's, I love, they gave me my first opportunities to

interview

people.

That's kind of in a way why we're

talking right now in some roundabout secure way.

Margot Stern: Best hospitality conference ever, in my opinion. Um,

but please don't shun me from the other ones. But, um, no, it's great. And I, um, got to talk to a few people, um, and I had this conversation with, uh, Matt Goodrich and Bart Nags,

um, which was just a delight. And one of the things that Bart and I were talking about is how.

I sort of have this thesis that hospitality should not be lumped in as real estate. It's very strange. Yeah, I get it. It's in a building and so therefore it's real estate. But it's so different than multifamily. It's so different than commercial real estate. It's obviously very different than industrial real estate, right? There are so many departmental aspects of [00:46:00] hospitality. It's really,

it's, it's, it's, very complex operationally, and branding is, is a much bigger component. And so in a way, the hospitality industry, and I think probably the appeal of it too, is it's more like the fashion industry. It's more like, um, other ancillary industries where you have sourcing as a component.

You have design as a component. You have many different operational functions, right? You have to hire people with different skill sets. Like there's. People are fleeting. You don't know if something that's on trend today is gonna be on trend tomorrow. So how do you make sure this brand has staying power?

Right? Like there's so many different aspects to it. And I would get very frustrated early on, 'cause I would take this to regular real estate investors who are used to seeing a multi-family deal. And those people are just, they're asking, right? They, like you did, they're looking at the IRR or they're looking at the cap rate and they're basically saying like, okay, what am what?

You know, they're sort of doing a calculation where they're saying, and how many years have I put in [00:47:00] this now and I'm making this sort of rate, um, what's my, you know, how long does it take for me to get my

money back?

Um, and that's not the way you look at hospitality. You have to look at it differently.

And you have to look at it almost the way that you invest in, uh, a stock. I mean, you really become more of a venture investor, or in some cases a private equity investor where you're, you're looking at the business and you're looking at whether or not this business has, you know, a strong brand. Can they grow the brand?

Can they get people in the door? Will those people stay? You know, what is the customer lifetime value? So. I always say like, please don't look at this in comparison to other real estate investments. Look at it like a stock. And you know, based on the research that you've done or your sort of general knowledge or understanding of this place and this idea, do you think that it has legs?

And I think that a few pe for a few people that's resonated where like, okay, that makes more sense. 'cause you have to get people out of traditional real estate investing mindset If they've never seen a hotel pro forma and if they've never invested in a hotel before.

Dan Ryan: But

Margot Stern: Um.

Dan Ryan: exciting about [00:48:00] hotels, which aside from just the rate of return and an exit, if at some point if you can get a hotel or multi-family, ideally to where it's generating a cash on cash return, it's tax advantage income that you can benefit from if you're making proper distributions. So, ' cause depreciation is like the magic of all magic in my experience.

On

the

multifamily

side,

Margot Stern: Yeah, and well also you get to go, I mean, one of the things that's so funny about a lot of projects in the Northeast is they're either totally independently funded or they're institutionally funded. I don't know, can't think of that many hotels off the top of my head where they have, you know, localized for better or for worse, whether, I know some developers that say that this isn't always a good thing, but where you have investors who are local, they might be members, they're able to go, they're able to enjoy it, they're able to say, you know, I built this, which is.

That's also really, that's a great opportunity to really invest in something that's within your community or within an hour or so of your community where you get to be a part of it.

Dan Ryan: you've raised money, [00:49:00] you've closed, you're, you're, everything is happening. You're looking to raise money. I've had a past guest on Dave Kaplan with Death

and

Company.

I don't know if you

know, death and Company. They're

a

Margot Stern: Oh, I do know Death and Company.

Dan Ryan: he's a really good friend, former neighbor, but they've been doing all this crowdfunding. I also had another woman on, oh my God, her name's escaping me right now, but she started a crowdfunding

platform

for hospitality.

Margot Stern: Eve.

Dan Ryan: but now, like I

can speak specifically to death and co. They're like expanding into

Margot Stern: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: and I wanna say

Mexico and all these places, and they're getting all their raving fans on board to invest alongside with them.

Have you considered doing anything like

that

for your

project?

Margot Stern: Yeah, so at first I didn't wanna do that because you had to get a totally different, uh, fund classification. But what I'm doing now is I'm actually in an agreement with a new fund that's coming in as a partner. Um, and they are gonna raise the traditional way, but we're also gonna put it out there using social media.

And [00:50:00] so by the time you're listening to this, um, and maybe it'll be in a link, but we will have a page where you can log in and put in your accreditation information, show that you're accredited investor, and you can actually, um, begin the investor process right then and there. So it'll be really interesting to get to use some of these modern techniques that people have been using for customer acquisition outside of the hotel industry, um, to start using it for hotel fundraising.

So we're gonna kind of play around with that. Um, we don't have that much left in the capital stack, so we're.

Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Margot Stern: In a really good position to be able to experiment with that.

Dan Ryan: How much are you looking to raise still?

Margot Stern: The total raise was 6 million, um, and we're gonna be raising about Three.

Dan Ryan: Three. Okay. And then how, what tranche of that three would be open to that? Crowdfunding. I don't even have the words for it. That

crowdfunding

thing.

Margot Stern: I'm not sure I, things have been moving pretty quickly and we went from a pretty slow development period where I wasn't fundraising aggressively because we [00:51:00] didn't have the right approvals yet to getting those approvals, starting to get in the room with some more influential hospitality investors who have since funded and so.

Um, I'm really pleased to be in a position now where things are sort of happening as I'm speaking to you. So I think within the next few months we may be, um, that number may have gotten lower, but I think there will likely still be room and it would be really cool to have some

listeners kind of reach out or, um, like I said, we're gonna be doing hyper regional Instagram marketing of the investment and it'll be really a great experience to see how that works.

I know that it's, it's worked for this fund. They're really experienced in doing this with more traditional, uh, real estate investments. So we'll kind of see how it translates in hotels. We're, we're very optimistic because we think that it's a very fun story to tell visually on Instagram, whereas some of the leads that have been generated in the past are just from like, sort of a single static page will be able to show exciting imagery and

um, sort of storytelling around what this is. And it'll be fun to reach people that way. [00:52:00]

I think the game here is reaching people who are interested, right? So,

um,

all the different ways of doing that are great.

Dan Ryan: well if you, well, I was gonna say, is. We could probably talk about this after, but if you'd like, I can connect you with Dave and he can probably share his experience of doing the whole

crowdfunding

thing as

well.

Um, but

I,

he keeps popping up in

all my feeds and I'm like, wow, that's, he's in Australia now. Um, one thing I'm surprised at as we're kind of, you know, the cool thing about podcast is there's no rules, so to speak, as far as, um, how, how to do them, what questions to ask, where a conversation goes. Um, it's not like I have to hit my marks, but there have been a few podcast guests in the past where I interview them. They talk about walking through an area of a property that they worked on, like an architect, and they would take their voice or their video, I think more their voice that they used on the podcast and almost superimpose it over their own marketing efforts. [00:53:00] Um, it's

almost

like a

Ken

Burns

kind of. Walkthrough

and I'm like, wow, why don't more people do that when they take, because like, I'm asking these questions of people who not getting asked these questions all the time. And I know from the fundraising perspective it can be a bit transactional. Right. So imagine you have this crowdfunding platform up you have those pictures and everything, and then you had your voice overlaying it. What would you say to the

people that are clicking on and looking at it?

Margot Stern: What would I say if it had my voice

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Like, okay, so you have your crowdfunding platform up, there's a link, uh, you're showing your

Margot Stern: in a world,

Dan Ryan: say over

those

photos?

To a prospective?

Margot Stern: in a

world

that didn't have enough hotels that were also luxury hotels? Yeah. No, it's funny, I, you're tapping into this like other very weird insecurity I have where, um. My brother is this very prolific writer and he writes in war zones. Um, and he was like single-handedly responsible [00:54:00] for getting women out of Afghanistan.

And I joke that like my brother's off saving the world while I'm like making people expensive margaritas. So, um, I don't know. I don't know if I could, I don't know if I could do like my own voiceover. And I will tell you that I, people spend about a minute and a half on average on the investor deck. I can see.

'cause it's, you can see on DocSend how much time people spend on it. So I don't know, I think I would just, um, what would I say? I would say, um, I think I would probably talk about, you know, this very, very local, but very transcendent escape right here in your sort of backyard that's gonna be approachable, luxury and farm to table appeal. Um, oh God, I'm really failing at this.

You really put me on the spot, Dan.

Um, no, I

I, know there's no rules. I, I.

Dan Ryan: rules here.

I think you're doing great.

Margot Stern: I think that it's this countryside verdin [00:55:00] luxurious experience where it's immersive hospitality at its best farm to table dining, private members only club, and a chance to get out of the city, but feel like you've gotten out of the country.

Dan Ryan: Asterisk and the farm to table dining and membership is not included in the returns as shown here

with,

Margot Stern: Yeah,

Dan Ryan: and then the

really fast print, whatever they say to

like

dis disclaim everything.

Margot Stern: right.

You, you

might get deer ticks. Please don't get in the way of the hunting rifles.

Dan Ryan: Yes, exactly. Wear bla. We'll be issuing blaze

orange blankets as you enjoy the brisk weather in the

fall.

Margot Stern: I know, I do have to tell you that I had, there was a, um, there is a certain period of the year where one of the nearby parks has one or two hiking trails that shut down. I promise you it's not an issue. But I, I had one investor who was so thorough that he and his wife hiked around the property and they saw these signs and they saw this sort of warning sign that said like, you can't be on the trails from, you know, like 3:00 AM to 5:00 AM And, um, they almost didn't invest because they were afraid that [00:56:00] people would be like, shot on the hiking trails. So I've seen it all.

Um, you won't get shot

at the Hopewell, but maybe we'll have skate shooting.

Dan Ryan: Oh, that's what you can say. You won't get shot at the Hopewell.

That's a good one.

Margot Stern: Yeah, that's gonna be my tag. This has gone, wow, this has really taken a turn. I thought, I thought here, I thought this was gonna be this incredible podcast opportunity and I've basically just come in and been like, don't, and please don't invest and I'll

goodbye.

Dan Ryan: No, I love it. I love it. Because you know what? You're just being real and you and you have the vision, you have the funding, you're like, you're doing all these right things, so why not? And I think that's just a testament to you. And since I've known you, which is probably since the beginning of the summer, um. I can tell when I'm talking to someone who's talking through a mask, you're

not talking through a mask. Right. You're just being you.

Margot Stern: Yeah. No, this is, you're getting, you're getting a hundred percent me,

Dan Ryan: And I think, how many times did you say transparent in

the beginning of this conversation?

Margot Stern: I

don't know, I just, I people

Dan Ryan: 12.

Margot Stern: [00:57:00] Can, can you, Can, you delete that out, like with just five of them so it sounds more unique?

Dan Ryan: no, because, well, yeah, maybe we can talk about it, but I, but, but at the end of the day, it's just like you're just being you and doing your thing and marching to the beat of your own drum, which I think brings me back around to something that I said in the beginning where, um, you're active,

um,

with female founders in hospitality. Correct. You're

Margot Stern: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: what do you think, and I, and I think you alluded to this in just number of meetings, but what do you think our industry, the hospitality industry. Or maybe finance in general, but let's just keep it to hospitality. What do you think the hospitality industry is still getting wrong when it comes to

women

founders

or creatives?

Margot Stern: I think, I think unfortunately some of it is just, um, it's like

it's still innate.

I think women just get doubted more and questioned more. Um. So it, that's something to just overcome and I think, not take personally, [00:58:00] I think there's a men, you know, I don't know. I don't, I, I, well, whatever, I'll just say it, but I, I think men can kind of get on the golf course and be like, Hey, I have this idea.

And then, you know, couple of hours later, like around a few post golf drinks, they've just fundraise like half a million dollars maybe or more. Um, I think for women, like you have to sort of, you end up getting questioned a little bit more and challenged a little bit more. But what I will tell you is if, I also think if that's happening to you, like if for female listeners, if that's happening, that's not, that's not the right investor for you. I have walked away from a few kind of big deal ish investors, um, and wondered if I was crazy. But in the end, it was the right decision because the people that I found who are part of this project. Are not a part of it, in spite of the fact that I'm a woman, they're a part of it because they believe in me and they believe in the project.

And these are people who are really intelligent, people who have, you know, one of them has a publicly traded hospitality company. These are [00:59:00] people who have been really successful in this industry. So, um, I think if someone's questioning you a lot, it's just not, it just kind of as painful as it can be.

Like, that's not the road you wanna keep going down. Um, I, I think that women just don't get as many opportunities as you would think. And so just because a woman isn't in a board seat for a large hospitality company, it doesn't mean that there weren't women out there that could have done the role. It means you're not finding them.

Um, and I think that one of the ways that women can lend a lot in this industry is that typically women are innately good at. Sort of multitasking and balancing a lot of information and sort of choosing what to act on and what not to act on in that strategy. there just, there haven't typically been a lot of opportunities for women in this industry. I think it's really, it's really nice to be a part of female founders. Um, I have had some amazing women come forward in the past few [01:00:00] years, uh, who are super ballers in this industry and who are helping. Um, and in some cases like that might be because I'm a woman. So there's,

that's definitely been great. I think it's just that, I think that if you, if I don't know, I mean, I don't know who I'm speaking to right now. If I'm speaking to a man and you don't have a lot of women on your team, you might be missing out.

Um, if I'm speaking to a woman, which is a lot easier to speak to, I would just say, you know, if you're getting questioned a lot. Then it's like that's not the right environment.

Dan Ryan : I've been a card carrying member. I, I don't think it's just women in hospitality.

I think it's women entrepreneurs everywhere. Um, I've been a card carrying member. The EO network, which is the Entrepreneurs Organization. Um, and then I have a lot of friends in YPO, and I don't know if this is the most recent data, um, but 14 to 17% of the global 15,000 or 18,000 member entrepreneurs organization are women.

Right? In YPOI think it was 13 or 14%. And I'm, I don't, I have to like fact check [01:01:00] that, but in general, it's less than a quarter of entrepreneurs. Are women in these organizations. I don't know if that cascades through all of society. Um, but I think it is a problem and I think that the more women like yourself that are out there doing these awesome things and that also being a part of a group and mentoring and talking about these issues and, um, I think it's inspiring to so many more.

So aside from. The crowdfunding platform. I just think that this is a tremendous way to, um, inspire one of our listeners who's probably a woman because what's interesting about this podcast is more there are more female listeners than male listeners, which I really think is unique within the podcast sphere.

Um. So I'm proud of that. But I also think that just by you getting on here and being transparent and not having that mask on, um, I [01:02:00] think we'll just, you'll really inspire scores of people I would think, to take that step.

Margot Stern : I hope so. I mean, it's funny 'cause a few people that I've talked to at conferences who have been interested in, in starting something in hospitality it, some of those people I've given the opposite of advice where I've sort of said, do something that you can wrap your arms around. But usually I'll ask a question first.

So I'll say kind of, you know, why do you wanna own a hotel or what, you know, do. Is a reason why. And often those people will say like, well, you know, they'll tell me about the type of place they wanna create, and if it's small and if they're interested in teaching yoga to their guests in the backyard, or if they wanna host particular types of retreats, or if they love to cook a particular type of muffin.

Like if it's a really high touch experience where they wanna have a hands-on. Um, concept. I usually say like, try to find something that you can do on your own. Find a defunct b and b or one where the owners are about to retire. Find something that you can do by [01:03:00] yourself instead of waiting to get somebody's approval and investment before you can go out and like create your dream.

And I don't know if that's the right advice or not, but it's often advice that I give. And then I think when people are doing this, it's like, yeah, you know, I. I think it's just, um, create the vision as much as possible. And often the story, the numbers matter, but the story matters too. And so when you have a coherent vision for something, um, and when you really, you have to really believe in the vision yourself.

But it, it comes through. And I think for me, when I talk a lot about the Hopewell, once we sort of get into the story and the numbers and how we're gonna activate it, people really get it. Um. And then the other thing is that like a lot of venture, you know, a lot of sort of like venture capital or tech often will be sold on like, it's this thing that you haven't seen before.

Um, and I approach, I, I approach hospitality [01:04:00] and, uh, investors and kind of selling the story the way that you might in Hollywood. Funny that we had your take, bringing it back around Hollywood, but where, um, people will pitch a movie by like. It's two other movies, right? So they'll be like, it's um, you know, it's Hocus Pocus and Sleepy Hollow meets Bridesmaids, and that's the way they'll kind of sell it.

And I don't actually try to sell investors on how unique this idea is, but rather, look, we have a precedent for this. They're highly successful. In and around London, and we have a couple examples in the Catskills in Hudson Valley. So we have proof of concept. This is, there's a huge demand for this. Here's another one.

And I kind of start from like a much more basic, less sexy thesis and then build the storyline into it.

Dan Ryan : I think the, I think the sexier. I love that. But I think the sexier one is like it's been successful. A few times in the Hudson Valley and the [01:05:00] Berkshires, we've heard about many times where it was gonna happen and they just have never come to fruition. I have this, I have this over the finish line, Right,

Margot Stern : right. Yeah.

Dan Ryan : Let's go

hashtag L fg,

Margot Stern : Yeah. Well, it's exciting. We, we are, we're starting to pick up a lot of momentum, so I think we'll have shovels in the ground in like the next maybe six, six to eight months.

Dan Ryan : Awesome. Hey, if people wanted to learn more about you or the Hopewell, what's a good way for them to do that? You don't have to spell anything out. We'll just stick it in the show notes.

Margot Stern : Yeah. So I'll put the website in the show notes and um, a link to the fundraising page in case anyone's interested. I think we still, I think we'll still have a little room left in the capital stack for you. Um, but also if anybody listening just has questions or um, wants help with anything, I mean, I try to be as available as possible.

People have been really available to me and um, I think that's the power of Dan, what you're doing. You know, I think this podcast isn't just a conversation, but it's a community and I really applaud you [01:06:00] at keeping up with it.

Dan Ryan : Thank you. Well, and I applaud, um, ILC for giving me the inspiration and the courage to like take my first couple fledgling steps in trying this medium. I couldn't go to the one you were just at because I was asked toe this radical innovation event, which is amazing. It was my second year. I love it in New York City.

Um. Andrew and Meg, there's always a chance to get me back if you have me Mc again. Right? Instead of having me mc when Bashar can't make it.

Margot Stern : Yes, I think yes. Uh, Andrew, if you're listening, he should mc again. Also for other listeners, ILC is independent Congress, so

notes.

Dan Ryan : it is probably one of the greatest, um. I don't know, hospitality conferences, I think around because there, it's, it's just a very safe and comfortable place where you don't have to wear a mask. You can just be yourself and you can walk and talk to people and just ask questions. And there's no, there's no like, to quote another Philly person, [01:07:00] there's no front and maxim like, uh, like the Fresh

Prince would say down there.

Margot Stern : I know now. Now I'm getting self-conscious. 'cause if there's other listeners who are creators of conferences, thank you. We love you too.

And

I'd love to go to your conferences as well. I we could be so lucky. So.

Dan Ryan : Yes. Um, well, I'll be sure to, we, we will mention that. We'll put that in the show notes as well. I, I love independent lodging Congress. I'm a huge raving fan. Always have been. Always will be. Um, but Thank you This has just been so wonderful. Thanks for taking the mask off and showing us What a fledgling Well, not, you're not fledgling. A hospitality entrepreneur who is hitting their stride at the right time, what that looks like, what that feels like, and um, I don't know where the opportunity is, where the challenges are. I think that this podcast, more than anything, is gonna inspire other people to take an entrepreneurial step, and that to me is an entrepreneur, is why I get up and do this thing every day to impact people.

So, thank you. [01:08:00] thank you.

Thank you. Margo.

Margot Stern : Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Dan Ryan : All right, and thanks to all the listeners, hopefully this did change your ideas on hospitality and entrepreneurism, and if it has or you think someone you know could benefit from this, please forward this to them. It will go a long way in helping make their journey more interesting. Catch you next time.