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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast it's episode 161
i'm your co-host mike parsons and as
always i'm joined by mr mark pearson
freeland good morning mark hey good
morning mike we've got another great
individual to jump into today on show
161 don't we he is the original man of
purpose isn't he
yep he really is today listeners we are
going back into the archives of the
moonshot show and digging out yvonne
chennard co-founder and creator
and ceo of patagonia one of the most
well-known clothing brands i'd say in
the world mic
i would agree and it is dripping with
people and passion and there is so much
to learn
from
yvonne chennard the founder from
patagonia but we're also delighted to
say that he wrote a book which captures
a lot of his values and ideas about how
we can lead purpose like
companies and you know mark the reason
this is so timely and important
is that yvonne china just
he doesn't just talk the talk
he walks the walk
he really empowers his people and he
puts his purpose before profit
and so many people just do the talking
but don't do the walking but in in von
schnard we have the real deal don't we
matt
yeah i mean we'd say that he walks the
walk but i mean he also surfs he kayaks
he falcons he fly fishes and he climbs
you know i think he's
yeah he's climbing the climb and walking
the walk but you're right i think it's
very
it's still pretty rare to have an
individual who chooses the people and
the vision of the company over the
profitability
as well as the commercialism of having a
big particularly in fashion particularly
in clothing which has an industry market
so it's so fascinating he's in an
industry that if you think about
the impact particularly of fast fashion
um the uh the conditions that people who
manufacture the clothes
the conditions they work in
and look at the effects
there think about the runoff from
dyes and pollutants that are directly
related to fashion
as you just process it
that's what makes his success as a
purpose-led
climate and environmentally focused
brand like patagonia who are
focused on sustainability he's doing
this in one of the
most mischievous industries that there
really is right
yeah and he's preserved that ambition
that focus that vision
throughout the the entire history of the
company hasn't it i mean it's still one
of the ones one of the brands that
when you're starting out in marketing or
advertising or you're looking at
famous well-known brands with a with a
co-founder with a founder who's driving
for something specific patagonia
invariably comes up as a great case
study and i think it's really down to
ivan chanad and his his vision of
driving the company from a people
perspective as well as a product one
yeah and i love the payoff to the book
um
the education of a reluctant businessman
it's just so perfect he's kind of a
quirky guy he's fun he's a bit of a
character he's got a lot
to teach us in fact
he's such a
such a great teacher yvonne chenard with
so much
just dripping in wisdom and lessons that
he's really done that when we recorded
this show we invited the brand guru and
author patrick hanlon to join us on the
show to help us deconstruct and really
just enjoy and savor all the things
there are to learn around people and
purpose with yvonne chanad so
let's kick it off and let's get to to
meet our guest on the show mr patrick
hanlon
well patrick is somebody that i've known
for many many years he is a prolific
author
his signature piece one might say
is
the book primal branding please check
your amazon stores for the book and he
has produced numerous uh iconic
advertising campaigns he's worked with
brands like levi's and pepsi and
well you name it he's worked with them
and he's all about how you create
this spirit of community that is story
and narrative driven and how to have
positive positive impact on the world
it's my pleasure patrick to welcome you
on the show hello
hey it's good to be here thanks for
having me you're so very welcome and
when we when we chose
to have you on the show we have to give
our listeners a bit of an inside tip it
was because
we have one of probably the greatest
living brands by one of the greatest
entrepreneurs
so we are
very pumped to unleash your thinking
onto
what has to be one of the greatest
brands but i think chad we should stop
the suspense who are we going to dive
into this show
yvonne chernard of patagonia and he is
pretty amazing and then i i must say
when i did the research for the show he
he went from pretty amazing to
right up there i mean i i gathered these
clips and and research and found myself
wanting to work for patagonia
chad what do you think i mean what makes
patagonia and and the work from
yvonne chennard so special well i don't
want to give everything away before we
uh get to the clips here but i'll just
say i'm i'm always thrilled and excited
to kind of veer off the technology
innovation path and and find someone
like yvonne
at a company like like patagonia but um
patrick i'm i'm curious from you what
has been most surprising or
interesting to you about patagonia in
the last few years or even just as maybe
you've watched it over the past 40 years
well i just wanted to say first that
i've listened to a lot of these shows
not all of them grant you but this is
i'm so glad that you brought me to this
one because i'm a i'm a fan i'm a
patagonia fan i might even be part of
the tribe i don't climb i don't um
necessarily camp that much anymore but i
sure fall into the aesthetic and the um
and the belief system definitely so
what what i thought was outstanding i
hadn't read the book
let my people go surfing which is a
primer for anyone who wants to
look at any purpose-driven brand
and
what
fell out of that for me i think was how
totally when we talk about being
authentic we talk about being organic we
talk about all of these being genuine
and all these things and here was a guy
who didn't really want to become a
businessman or entrepreneur it just kind
of fell into his lap he was just making
better things he was forging his own
chucks and pythons and and
realized that
in the course of climbing these
mountains they were
also destroying them
by going up the same routes over and
over again and so rather than hammering
these things into the side of the
mountain they invented new ways in clean
climbing what they called and
and it's kind of that's kind of been the
model ever since yeah it's perhaps one
of the biggest things he has to offer
uh in terms of learning
is you said it he's authentic this guy
built products in a way he thought
was best for him for the customer for
the employee and
i think our listeners are going to find
he is
very folksy street shooting kind of a
guy he doesn't have all that
elaborateness you might find from a
silicon valley exec
but you're so right i mean this guy he
is chad this guy's the real deal yeah i
mean he went from dirt bag to
founding and running a billion dollar
company with over 2 500 employees
um we've got a great
introduction
from a patagonia employee just to give
you the listeners a sense of of you know
how far the companies come and and what
they're doing today so here's uh here's
a primer on patagonia from one of their
own
patagonia is based in ventura california
mainly because it's a great surf break
there
it is right now a little less than a
billion dollars about 2 500 employees
across the world patagonia was founded
40 years ago by a french canadian
climber yvonne chennard from the
beginning yvonne set out to create an
uncompany so we want to create a place
where people could make money and do the
things they wanted to do
and live full lives we hire people at
patagonia whether it's a corporate
office or in our retail stores who are
interested in and
love the spaces that they live
we look for a passion for caring about
the environment and if we're doing
things that force the store manager to
be in the back room all the time
for our employees you know to only be on
the floor behind the cash wrap then
we're doing something that is antithetic
to the culture and the purpose and why
we're here in the first place culture
matters and you know when it matters
most
when you stick to it in the great times
and the really challenging times
and so when i look at the history of
patagonia obviously right now are very
good times but the decisions that we
make even in the bad times because there
were bad times with patagonia 2008 it's
kind of not a great time for patagonia a
lot of companies but we didn't cut
health care we didn't cut on-site child
care we didn't cut training and
development that's the test of true
culture is when the decisions you make
are consistent whether business is
really really good or
really really challenging and i think
that's why our employees stick with us
at just ridiculously low rates of
turnover an element of the patagonia
culture is this irreverent
unconventional approach
so if if every wellness is turning right
patagonia is definitely the company that
will turn left from an unconventional
approach to the democratization of work
um
it's like everyone's turning right and
they'll take a left
what what you heard there was for me a
very
timely reminder on
having purpose
is the start of making life very clear
as a business person because you just
ask yourself does this action or does
what is the decision to make
that best reflects our purpose and we
can hear
how contrarian they are they didn't cut
all of those extra value-add services
which is how some companies would look
at them they maintained them during
tough times and
to me this is a very powerful lesson in
going out into the world to try and
achieve a greater good
and to have positive impact and you can
see that their success which is so
important to recognize they're in the
world of fast fashion where you know the
likes of h m and zara pride themselves
on turning product into store in less
than two weeks these guys are taking
their time to build timeless products
and we're going to hear so much in the
show about how they were how they
created the company how they came up
with these incredibly powerful
set of ideas that that fuel
uh the culture of the company and we're
gonna hear about some of their
philosophies and approaches and and how
they just think about
people uh as a whole and it's it's
very
important stuff and it's very good that
we're doing this because we've not had
someone so strong on culture
and doing well by doing good i think
this is a big
fuel injection for the cultural
barometer within organizations chad i
think this one this one's going to be
unique indeed yeah i'm excited and don't
forget we're gonna ask patrick all about
let my people go surfing the book that
yvonne wrote uh a while ago
patrick i'm i'm curious
as as we get into the show
what are some things that you're kind of
looking to learn from avon as we unpack
some of these clips
well i think that mike just steered us
toward one which is the whole reference
to h m and the instant fashion thing
fast fashion
and how
patagonia is not their clothing company
but they're not really a fashion company
as a matter of fact in their mission and
values the concern over transitory
fashion trends is specifically not a
corporate value so they're not going
from the
they're not going to be at fashion week
it's so true you'll never find them
there because
they'll probably be a bit too busy
catching waves um out the front of their
office
so exactly so having values but then is
one thing but sticking to them through
the dark times is another thing yeah and
we see in the up and down of corporate
culture startup life
we've all been presented with situations
where you're just doing a double taking
going
what and when someone does something
that's so contrarian to the values they
might espouse
this is where
you know i think the cast is is died
about good companies maybe companies
that are going to fail and it's
definitely the the moment of truth to
decide great companies
now we've heard so much about how
contrarian they are how how they've got
this incredible courage to do things
and a lot of this stems from
yvonne chennard the founder
and he has this contrarian fearless
courageous
style about him this essence it's more
than style he has this essence
and this first clip we're going to play
to you is part of a whole series we've
got about how the company came about and
the sort of mentality and approach it
took from him so let's now have a listen
to his thoughts on what the essence of
being an entrepreneur is and how it
might be not what you expect so here's
yvonne chennard
you know one of my favorite
quotes about entrepreneurs is if if you
want to understand the entrepreneur
study the juvenile delinquent
because you know
they're saying you know this sucks
and i'm going to do it my own way
i love that clip because
it
it goes back to his heritage as a
climber he was a self-professed dirt bag
of the 60s and and 70s and it's just
fascinating to me how
he stumbled into what would become
patagonia so as before he was he he's
kind of he's saying you know we're like
juvenile delinquents saying oh this
sucks so we're just gonna do it our own
way and i've never heard you know
entrepreneur described in that way but
uh i i love i love that that metaphor
yeah he he's got that thing he's he's
almost a bit branson-esque you know a
bit contrarian uh
bringing that into the entrepreneurial
world
pat i'm interested to know from you
when you think about this sort of
contrarian approach
do you see this a lot in successful
founders and leaders within
organizations is this a characteristic
that when you when you're writing about
creating a movement do you think uh this
plays a role in how he's
amassed such a huge community of brand
lovers well i think that in this case
the
yes the quick answer is yes and
in
the beginning
the people that worked at patagonia they
only worked there long enough to
uh according to yvonne anyway they
worked there long enough to
make enough money to go off on another
trip to chile and go surfing
or go mountain climbing in the alps
and then they'd come back and drift back
it was very hard to keep people
um
dedicated committed i guess committed is
probably the right word right and so
when you have a band of renegades like
that
it's kind of hard to run a business but
b yes i think everything kind of flowed
out of that yeah of course you have all
the you know apple started in the garage
hawaiian tropics started in a in a
garage also
with uh ron rice uh stirring the goop
you know with a shovel so yeah so it it
not everyone went out for investor
funding funding seed funding and
everything and um patagonia actually had
a problem getting loans yeah the the
interesting juxtaposition or or what
might not be a natural bedfellow to this
renegade i love that pat this renegade
characteristic
is that they're actually
product obsessed so just because they're
free-spirited doesn't mean that they
don't have the discipline to knuckle
down and design great products and we
all know
that
solving a problem is at the essence of
entrepreneurship and your product has to
be obsessed with solving problems of
your customers so what's very nice is
they might be renegades they might be
contrarians but they have enormous
aptitude to delve into the problem that
their customers have the great news
there they happen to be their own
customers because they're all outdoors
people which i think is another pattern
that we can decode in their success but
now let's have a listen to to yvonne
talking about
how we can get into
problem solving and how where the
products really come from so let's have
a listen to this
well i never wanted to be a businessman
i i was a craftsman and i was a climber
and i just every time i go into the
mountains i'd have ideas on how to make
the gear better
the gear was pretty crude in those days
it was all made
in europe
and
so i i just got myself a forge and an
anvil and
a book on blacksmithing and i taught
myself how to blacksmith and
and that led to making these pitons and
and
and eventually ice saxes and
and
crampons and all the gear for mountain
climbing and uh
and never did it
thinking that it was a business it was
uh
at first it was just making the stuff
for myself and friends and then friends
of friends and
pretty soon i'm
making two of these pitons an hour and
selling them for a dollar and a half
each
well
not too
not too profitable right
yeah i i love how he
his life was dependent upon the product
that he was making so if he wasn't
already obsessed enough with it here
he's creating
in in innovating on and iterating on
this product that he's using to hang
from el capitan and other mountains that
that he's climbing
and it was really out of necessity for
him and he kind of jokes at the end you
know that he was selling them for for
not much money and
it just you know it started out you know
he had his own anvil and forge um and
taught himself i mean
he just gets in there and says oh i just
taught myself to be a blacksmith i mean
sounds easy to say but like i wouldn't
even know where to start and just the
idea you're dealing with all that
fire and iron and
i mean this is a worldwide for me maybe
my digital world is just not analog
enough but but that just seems like wow
and he seems so matter-of-fact about it
doesn't he yeah and i i'm curious
patrick like if you know i mean you
mentioned hawaiian tropic i'm curious if
you know of any other kind of founding
stories that they kind of started this
messily you know if if you will
sure almost all of them uh henry ford
making the is his automobiles yeah the
the ford story is epic but but chad i
will take you back to one of our shows
when virgin airlines started it was on
the back of a smeared chalkboard with
richard branson saying i need to get to
this island i'll charter a plane 25
bucks a a flight from island to ireland
i mean
solving a problem taking the initiative
not being
you know in your head and scared of
failure they just jump right in and they
learn it they they pick up the tools and
go for it don't they yeah and he he
didn't stop you know he started with
these these climbing pitons but soon
branched out into
essentially everything that he used as a
climber and as an outdoors person you
know all the way to
pants and shorts
this really cool kind of
fuzzy wool like fabric that but it was
synthetic so that when you got it wet
you know it would dry quickly instead of
you know wearing wool and it staying wet
for weeks on end
uh you know essentially just creating
the products out of necessity as opposed
to looking and seeing what's popular on
trend and doing that oh yeah totally and
it's so great um
you know he he just
took the initiative started making
things for himself and before he knew it
he's a product designer and what's great
about the next clip fast forward a few
years and he wakes up and has this
realization oh my gosh i'm a businessman
which was certainly something that he'd
never set out to do in fact you know he
talks often
about business people no one grows up
wanting to be a businessman because you
know they're basically all versions of
of gordon gecko so this next clip is
fantastic because this is what
his reflections upon him
as a businessman but i but i wanted to
give pat this opportunity to reflect on
just the relationship uh that you know
building products and then before you
know it turning into a businessman
when you when you hear him talking about
creating these products and and you know
the journey he's on you what comes to
your mind pat well he really glances
over something that's really important i
think he talks about he just made a
slight mention of the products weren't
very good back then the products really
sucked back then i mean there wasn't the
clothing and so forth what he talks
about one of the things they talk about
in the book and maybe i'm giving the
book review away but
as we go but the they talk about uh
cutting off a pair of chinos
and wearing a white shirt button-down
shirt that would they would pick up out
of uh you know from the salvation army
or someplace so they get it cheap and
didn't care if they roughed it up but
that's the kind of stuff whereas
they've always tried to build quality
products
and
uh in order to make corduroy he spotted
some corduroy over in scotland or
someplace
the
factory had closed and they had to call
seven retired gentlemen
away from the pub to start the machine
up again and the
the
these old craftsmen
warned him you know once the blades on
this machine
go dull we'll never be able to use it
again because we don't have the
wherewithal to sharpen the blades
anymore and it luckily the machine
lasted seven more years
but that kind of
dedication and just um sort of brilliant
nonchalance toward who cares we'll just
make it in any way as long as we can
right and essentially waiting for the
customers to like beat down his door to
make the thing yeah quality quality
first and customers came later whereas
today of course we always want to ask
the customer and get user studies and
yeah but he another story like you know
he he found this great rugby shirt which
if you've ever played rugby and worn a
jersey and it's this really nice thick
material and it's got a good collar and
all of that was perfect for the climbers
so that they didn't get rope burns and
you know their shirts weren't torn to
shreds
that replaced the white button down yeah
yeah but he i think he had to you know
all of his friends and and family were
saying like we we need these and so he
had to hunt down you know the
manufacturer of these shirts to to go
and do it so like he never he never set
out to like create this great outdoors
and an apparel company and this this
clip that mike was alluding to is i
think a perfect summation of that and i
couldn't help but laughing when we heard
it so here's just here's avon kind of
owning up to his uh
you know fateful realization that oops
uh he's a businessman now
i i kind of backdoored becoming a
businessman because this is this is in
the 60s and
you know businessmen were all grease
balls in the 60s
you know this is the counter culture
that we were in and
we didn't respect business in fact they
were the
they were the enemy
and so uh
you know one day
uh
later on i
kind of woke up and discovered oh my god
i am a businessman
and that's when i decided
i better find out what i'm doing and
um
started reading a lot of books on
on business and
and basically
trying to
create a business that we
wanted to come to work in all of us i
mean it wasn't just me but all of us
were all dirt bags
yeah
what a what a powerful clip because the
essence of that
is when he had the the realization he
didn't just dwell in it he put himself
to work
and started reading books
and studying what it meant to be a
businessman and this is exactly what he
does with everything you'll remember
when he talked about building a product
he just went out and learned how to be a
blacksmith he went and read books
this is constantly what he does and this
is by far the most powerful theme of all
the successful innovators and
entrepreneurs is they are lifelong
learners and what's important here is
it all comes off the back
his entrepreneurship comes off the back
about what we heard was this to him
which seems quite natural is this
obsession with great product this
obsession with solving problems and i
think this is one of the biggest lessons
we can take from him it doesn't matter
whether you're high-tech low-tech
whether you're digital or analog
it really matters that you go out in the
world and you solve problems and that we
are learning constantly that
entrepreneurship is a means
for entrepreneurs to achieve their
mission
so the mission is not to be an
entrepreneur itself the mission is to
see positive impact in the world and
we've seen that time and time again
haven't we chad yeah and i think where
we've seen it go wrong is where the the
entrepreneur is in it for the wrong
reason and i don't want to name names
but i'm sure we can all think of of of
either someone in our own experience or
out there kind of in in the news in the
media that kind of got that equation
backwards and avon just embodies that
mission and purpose first product first
philosophy so wow yeah pat i wanted to
ask you about this idea of learning um
you're an author you've written
several books you write for some
very prestigious
magazines and so forth what's your
practice of learning how do you keep
yourself abreast and
how do you keep growing and and where
does that start for you
oh that's such a hard question to answer
with all the splintered channels and
everything that we have the um
i have several feeds that i go to every
day and then i read constantly i read
more than i listen
um one of my daughters
is constantly on itunes and so forth
list reading or listening to books
rather than reading them i think there's
something to reading things still so
yes they'll have some analog in me good
on you
reading reading is is a beautiful thing
and
surely the the practice of writing
the fact that you know you have to
bring an idea and put pen to paper that
must be a big part of your learning
because ideas just get better when you
write don't they i think so yeah yeah
yeah i feel that way yeah for me it's
it's the pressure to write
and to get your idea as clear as
possible
invariably it makes
my
what's in my mind even sharper once i'm
committing it to paper it's it's almost
i don't know there's there's some
you know growth of my membranes
you know when i'm writing it just it
clarifies solidifies the idea doesn't it
you know i didn't realize this until i
was pretty old but the um seeing
something i'm a visual person so i need
to see something on paper i guess
so so now we've got this this lens that
we're looking at yvonne chennard founder
of patagonia through we know that he's
very concerned he's a renegade as
patrick said we know that it all started
with making better climbing products for
himself and before he knew it he was a
businessman
but everything goes next level
there was a point in time
where it was do or die for patagonia it
was do or die for the entire company
and this was a classic tipping point in
their history it was either going to go
good or it was going to go very bad for
them and what we have here is him
reflecting on this moment and i just
want to give a heads up to all the
listeners
make sure you tune in to this following
clip because there is so much inside of
this because not only is it about
learning and coming together but it is
about resilience and about turning
adversity into opportunities so let's
have a listen to yvonne chennai founder
of patagonia on where the true origin
the essence of the patagonia brand where
it came from when and how
well
i you know i've been on a lot of
different expeditions and trips but
the longer they are the more you you get
something out of them
and uh this was a six-month trip
and so we left
ventura california with an old van this
is doug tompkins and myself and
and some other folks
and we loaded the van up with surfboards
and skis and climbing equipment
bought an old
bolex 16 millimeter camera
and took off surfing all the way down to
lima
went to chile
and climbed volcanoes and skied down
them that's where i learned to
ski um
crossed over the andes and went over and
climbed uh fitzroy a real famous
mountain that had been only climbed
twice and we did a new route on it and
we made a film on the whole thing and
and that's when i fell in love with that
country the
southern end of
south america called patagonia
and uh
it's it affected doug tompkins a lot
and myself and uh and that's why i named
the
my clothing company patagonia because it
i wanted to make clothing for those kind
of conditions you know like cave horn
and
wild mountains and
wild weather and
and i've uh
yeah so i
that that was a big effect that was 1968
and it was it was a wild trip i mean you
know
you wake up sometimes
sleeping on the ground in guatemala with
guns at your head
had a lot of adventures
he makes it sound so simple
you know i
i think uh it's kind of hard for me to
believe that
that yeah that what we now know is
patagonia you know was just kind of
discovered on a surf trip in a van down
down the western coast of uh north and
south america yeah there's a lot of
intensity there but there's also a lot
of humility isn't there
actually yeah that's a good good thought
about yvonne chenard
he has he reminds me a bit of um
fred smith from fedex
you know
he's thoughtful he's pragmatic but
it never at any sense
do you feel ego when they talk you'll
notice he's often thinking about you
know he's always quick to credit others
he's quick to
attribute things to others and it almost
the the thing you have to be careful
with yvonne is like it all feels so easy
uh because i think he asks big questions
and he's looking for the essence of
things
and i think we have to remind ourselves
it doesn't come as easy to all as as it
seems to to yvonne but i i think that
but he's keeping it simple yeah i i
think it's coming across as very easy
because he has kept it so
simple and you know after we uh after we
talk about the book let my people go
surfing well i think we'll get into the
purpose and the dual mission that ivan
created for the company that he's stuck
with for 40 years and i think that's why
he's kind of there's this easy
confidence that comes through i think
that's where it really comes from is the
simplicity of what he's chosen to do
yeah
without a doubt in this this modern
world of notifications
with artificial intelligence and machine
learning
it is essential to keep it simple and i
love how contrarian he is in that and i
think that we've already had such a gift
in understanding the purpose of the
renegade within him that has that has
created a billion dollar brand it's
created a venture company it's created a
food company that is all geared to to
not only leaving the world as it was but
actually to leave it better than how he
found it and already that is such a
noble and powerful cause but it's helped
him also build a great brand and part of
what he's been trying to do
in sharing his story is to inspire
others to go do it as well he's really
he only makes himself so accessible in
order to provide some sort of roadmap
for others and i think at the very
pinnacle of that roadmap was his book
so um he he he penned together this this
book let my people go surfing and
without a doubt it's it's a it's such a
well reviewed and admired book its
subtitle is
the education of a reluctant businessman
but i know that we will have
anything but a reluctant
a set of thoughts from patrick on the
book
patrick you read the book uh you've
heard some of the stories and and and
the values that he's brought to life in
the book
listening uh to him and and reading this
book
how would you position this book you
know for anyone who wants to go and
learn how to be
an entrepreneur an innovator to go out
in the world
what's what's in the book for them well
i think it's a perfect example as i said
earlier i think of being purpose driven
and uh but also it's very astute in
terms of persistence and being um very
serious really and uh but even if it got
serious you know work had to be
enjoyable on a daily basis
there's a phrase in there that he gets
to that says uh we all had to come to
work on the balls of our feet and go up
the stairs two steps at a time i mean
that's not only persistence but that's
really the aggressive pursuit of
something
and
right and then there's another
thing in the book that he mentions that
you wanted to keep the company in
yarrick
y-a-r-a-k-a-k is spelled a falconry term
meaning that when you're when your
falcon is super alert hungry but not
weak and ready to hunt hmm
so that's very intentional
how do you spell that that was that's
such an interesting idea yeah y-a-r-a-k
yarok eric okay very cool keep the
company in yaric which seems to be sort
of a that's
i don't know if that's a zen state but a
purposeful
content state of
high alert state of high alert right
one of one of the things that strikes me
chad about him is the enormous scope of
his achievement
but the simplicity and calm in which he
seems to do it
what strikes you about uh yvonne china's
disposition and approach that you think
you could try and adopt when you're
going out making great films and telling
great stories about innovators like what
are you learning from from he's almost
his style of entrepreneurship
he's uh
he's like not tolerant of any
pardon my french uh working at
the company you know i
this the phrase let my people go surfing
i think it's an amazing book title and
it says a whole lot about his philosophy
just in that that phrase you know it if
you weren't hitting the waves with him
on the off days or after work like he's
not you're not someone that he would
want there with him and it goes back to
what you're saying practice like they're
they're either surfing or working you
know there's kind of like but they're
totally
impassioned and
[Music]
the state of flow
in both of those things and i think
seeking out and encouraging those people
to you know to come and work with him is
is a big part of his success well think
about both of those things they're both
highly active
uh you have to be totally on right
you can't be off when you're shooting
through the wave and
you have to be mind very mindful and
present yeah and intentional
yeah yeah and you have to seize the
opportunities you can't just paddle out
there aimlessly you have to be able to
see
see the waves as they're coming in and
know when to drop in and catch the
weight take a risk yep yeah it's a it's
a it's a beautiful metaphor and
we were you were saying mike before we
hopped on the show like
listening to all these clips you just
want to work
for von schnarn and and work for the
people at patagonia and i think
that
is a really
powerful aura and mythos that he has
has created i would i would say what
what you guys were talking about is play
hard work hard yeah exactly you know
with purpose with purpose yeah yeah
and and that's that's so so we're so
fortunate because what we've got coming
up in the show is a whole bunch of
insights around this purpose and i think
there's a lot to learn for us and for
our listeners on how we can create
purpose not only for ourselves for our
teams our organizations the communities
in which we live plus
just because evon chennai from patagonia
is full of lessons
we've got a number of insights around
people and philosophy
it's it's action-packed and now
if you're listening to this and you're
like what was that crazy word they used
for keeping hungry
that and all the clips and links and
references you'll find at
moonshots.io where you'll get all the
goodies past shows show notes you name
it it's all
there on moonshots.io
so we're through we're through the
origin of patagonia uh chad where should
we start with purpose what's next so i
think we'll pick up right on the mission
and this is something
from the research that we did it seems
like yvonne knew this from the very
beginning but this simple dual mission
that he set i think was really what set
them up for success so here's yvonne
talking about patagonia's dual mission
original mission statement was make the
best quality product
and we always felt that
something is perfected not when you
can't add anything more to it but when
you can't take anything away
it's kind of different between an
old-fashioned cadillac
that was so but ugly that they had to
put all kinds of chrome breasts on it
and
stuff you know
compared to a ferrari in those days it
didn't have any chrome on it i mean it's
just it's beautiful lines
and so that's always been our philosophy
but then
you know i thought we needed another
part to our mission statement because
really getting concerned about
the natural world and i was very
concerned about never having a company
that was unsustainable again
so we added in
the second part which says cause no
unnecessary harm
it doesn't say cause no harm because
you know there's no way
you can ever
manufacture a product without causing
harm
and
according to you know second law of
thermodynamics entropy
you basically end up with probably more
waste than
than you end up in the within the final
product
there's you know there's no such thing
as sustainability
there's a beginning and end to
everything as any buddhist will tell you
hmm
less
is more
he would be imagine having him in the
room with one of our other
oh dieter he and dieter would get along
so well yeah
how did it would strip everything away
until there was nothing left to remove
it's really like being a sculptor oh
yeah yeah or working with clay
just breaking it down to its to its
essence
i love that and i think in this
i mean if there was one thing and
working with large organizations
trying to create breakthrough products
this one of the things i see so much
is what we commonly call the scope creep
which is putting more and more things
into a product
and and the false sense of satisfaction
that gives product designers like oh
yeah we've got a button for this and a
button for that what if you actually
look at the things we love the kindle
the iphone so much of what those
products do is simplicity and the
removal of distraction and i think that
apart from having this this mission of
building great products and doing a
little harm but the essence is you know
if you wanted a product strategy from
patagonia it's less is more
i also think tying
this greater purpose to the mission was
a very a and doing that explicitly was a
very good move on his part because i
think it just creates this
mike you and i love talking about
flywheels i think that was one thing
that he did to get this flywheel of
amazing people into the company
and you know that that was recently
formalized i think in
2010 2011 you know patagonia became one
of the first
very large certified b corporations you
know
where you know it's in their little
by-laws you know that it doing good and
doing well is
is kind of married you know it's not
just doing well financially um all those
things combined to really get this this
fly while spinning so while it's rooted
in great products it's great products
that in the process of being made do as
little harm as possible and i don't see
how anyone can you know say no
to that kind of proposition and working
at that kind of company and what's so
powerful is we actually see
this uh great product do little harm
coming coming actually to life in this
next clip because they talk about
how they've created products that embody
both of these things so let's have a
listen to the journey that the the
company went on and how it thought about
bringing polyester to the world
one one thing that's just happened very
recently
that
is really exciting it's the most
exciting thing that's happened in the
company a long time we've partnered with
a
with a japanese mill that just spent a
hundred million dollars in a recycling
plant where they're going to recycle
polyester now we've been making 40
different products out of you know all
our fleece and stuff made out of
recycled soda pop bottles
but when you're done with those products
and they're all worn out you throw them
away but now
we're telling our customers that when
you're done with your kapolein underwear
which is polyester you bring it back to
us
and wash it first
especially the thongs
and then we're going to bundle that
stuff up and we're going to send it back
to japan and
it's going to go to this plant they're
going to melt this stuff down
and take it to its original polymer
and then make fiber and then we're going
to make more underwear out of it
so we're going to complete the circle
what bill mcdonough calls cradle to
cradle
and it's never been done with clothing
yeah
going from
recycled material to
article clothing
back to raw material and then back to
article of clothing
is this just amazing cradle to cradle as
he said cycle that is the exact opposite
of what you were saying you know you the
uniqlos and the
zara's and the h m's of the world yeah
and what's so exciting is that you can
have
a profitable business you can do well by
doing good because often
there's this perception that doing the
right thing in the end costs you a lot
more it's not the profitable way you
have to be kind of greedy to maximize
profits but the truth is many times it's
been found that patagonia outperforms
the garment industry
and the sports equipment industry for
profitability yet they actually have a
positive impact on the world because
they're doing for example cradle to
cradle polyester
i i think this is this great
intersection of they have this vision
these values but the things that they do
the things they make
actually reflect those and i think this
is the essence of not only yvonne's
authent authentic nature as an
entrepreneur but patrick i think this is
the key to why so many people love their
brand because they truly do
walk the talk they practice what they
preach right right and along with that
brilliant quality they have figured out
this whole ecological bent to it
and they've been doing that since
you know the beginning really
they kind of fell into it in the book
they talk about saving one of the salmon
streams or rivers in
right outside their doors really 500
feet away from their office in ventura
california
they were going to the local council was
going to build some
mess up the river still more and there
the reason for doing that was because
the river was already dead
and so someone uh had a study had done a
study some graduate student who's now i
believe at pet still at patagonia they
hired him
and brought him in to do more studies
and do studies in other places and
from that
like i said they just kind of fell into
some of these things anyway
it seemed like the right thing to do
seemed like the right thing to do and
they seem unflappable like it's just the
right thing to do it almost has this
matter of fact feel about it that they
just do what they
you know they say they'll do they
practice what they preach and
i'm trying to think chad of all the
shows we've done has has has ever been
an entrepreneur that we've looked at and
studied that seems to have such a close
alignment between values and actions and
creating a natural
and a very sustainable business that so
seems so simple and clear-minded
no
i i don't think we have it the
the true
entrepreneurial
genius i think from yvonne is
taking this
deep love and desire to do
good for the environment
and not just
doing things to to make the environment
better you know like saving the the
rivers and
uh setting aside park lands and and
donating
i think it's one percent or over one
percent of all of their sales not profit
sales total gross sales
to
a couple hundred or a couple thousand
organizations on top of all of those
things he's actually designing the
business model of patagonia to be
sustainable so here's actually yvonne
kind of explaining his thinking on well
you know doing activities and things for
the environment isn't enough we need to
actually make the business itself and
the business model sustainable into the
future
you know american
style of business you're supposed to
grow this business as fast as you
possibly can
you don't have to make a profit just
show lots of growth so that you can have
an ipo
sell a bunch of stock to some suckers
and then you know you you uh
retire to seize your world and play golf
the rest of your life
well um
i don't believe that is is right and i
always felt that if the farmer has this
responsibility
well so do i as a
owner of a company
and so
we decided to put
our company in a path to where we would
be here 100 years from now
so all the decisions made
are for the long term
which means
you know we can't grow 15 percent a year
we decided to grow at a natural growth
and so natural growth means
when the customer tells you that you're
they're frustrated and buying your stuff
your cal they just got the catalog and
you're already sold out
that you just you need to make more
but we don't advertise on inner city
buses to try to get gang kids the right
to buy our black down jackets instead of
timberland or north face
um the reason we got into trouble in the
first place
is that
with this sinchilla we were selling
stuff to people who wanted it but didn't
need it
whenever you're in that situation
you're a victim of the economy the
economy is going to go up and down and
you're going to go up and down like a
yo-yo
and particularly if you really follow
the fashion
trends and then you're really
in a scary situation
i love that because what he what he
pinpointed there is this sort of
dangerous uh almost it feels like a
ponzi scheme uh sort of danger if you're
chasing growth selling to people
who want but don't need your product
means that as soon as tough times come
those people disappear
and that's what happened he tells the
story of they're expecting 50 growth
they only got 30 because the economy
changed and they got into all sorts of
trouble i love this sustainable natural
idea of
only selling to those who truly need and
want your product and what this does is
it means you don't have to blast them
with you know bus ads billboards you
don't have to interrupt them and try and
convince them because they're already
convinced that they want your product
and it just feels like such a natural
way of doing business patrick have you
ever heard of other brands that are just
this
natural about only wanting to sell to
people that need their product
yes yeah um you know i think that what
he's talking about is
against this whole obsession to scale
which silicon valley has sort of
embedded into uh
business as usual unfortunately but yes
the first one that leaps to minus ford
ford was originally made henry ford
wanted was a farmer he was a farm boy he
wanted to make automobiles automobiles
were already being made when he uh
started out
but they were being made for wealthy
people the 150 000 tesla leaps to mind
and
that's they were making duesenbergs and
pierce arrows and so forth for
millionaires henry ford wanted to make a
car for ordinary people so that ordinary
people like him
could buy one have one and so
he started his company uh ironically he
was working that he knew that he wanted
to make a combustible engine uh he
needed a spark plug he went to work
where for henry for thomas edison at the
local ge plant general electric plant in
detroit uh henry ford was quickly made a
supervisor and the
the funny thing is that henry would
punch in at thomas edison's company and
he would go back home and work on his
automobile and one day he got in an
argument with his bankers one night and
wanted to sell
automobiles to the wealthy and he
expletive deleted he walked out and they
renamed that company cadillac the
bankers did and harry when henry went on
to make his uh his ford ford motor
company
so
that's one i think another one that
might be levi's because levi's was made
you know the advertisements were uh two
horses or mules uh trying to pull the
jeans apart it was all about quality and
it was all about not about style style
was a function of uh i mean the design
was a function of utility yeah yeah yeah
it's it's um
to me it's very exciting to imagine
building a company
building products
that are so quality driven that solves
such a big problem
that marketing uh moves from being this
sort of
you know hand-to-hand combat with the
consumer of trying to convince them you
would almost argue a lot of advertising
and marketing as long as trying to trick
the um
the consumer to consume this product
what a pleasant way to imagine being a
chief marketing officer when all you're
about is presenting this quality product
to the people who know and love you and
to tell them about what problem you can
solve next for them that seems like a
like a marketing paradise i wonder for
how many companies this really exists
today
yeah not not many
this this last clip i think was my
favorite out of all of them precisely
because that
that is what i want our kind of
capitalist society to to be
is
is more focused on the the needs as
opposed to the once i think this
constant gender demand generation you
know by advertising and marketing i
think just fundamentally is
unsustainable in in the long run i mean
sure it looks great on the on the
earnings reports but startups and
companies that have to spend nine
dollars and 75 cents to get a customer
that pays them ten dollars i just think
that's fundamentally unsustainable and a
company like patagonia that's so focused
on just building products that people
need it's really it's really refreshing
and you know i want to see
more companies held into that high
school look at twitter right now they're
right in that poll tell us more about
that the whole obsession to scale i mean
they're not going as quickly as they
once were and they're in a bit of
trouble perceptually right now aren't
they trying to pivot their way out of it
i mean we'll see i mean i don't know
when this when people will be listening
to this podcast but
as of right now they're in trouble let's
see how they get out yeah no that's so
true so what we can see here from this
whole purpose
of building great products and not doing
harm means that they in the end deliver
products that have so much positive
effect that it it just brings this
natural group of people that want the
product and need it at the same time and
patagonia has no need for growth hacking
scale hacking they can just
continue on this beautiful wave of
momentum and flow that is created by
this high sense of purpose and keeping
themselves accountable for it yeah so
i'm just gonna say it's so
counter-intuitive right now because
everyone's obsessing about the customer
and what does the user say user studies
and so forth and but not uh so much here
we're obsessing about patagonia is
obsessing about the quality they're
obsessing about the product itself if
they can make the product that's great
our customers will find us they'll find
them yes
and and you can take a company that you
can take companies like um
apple and and amazon who might not come
with this doing well by doing good
purpose
but the shared attribute of success is
solving problems for customers and
obsessing about it and this unlocks this
momentum this flywheel and in the case
of patagonia their flywheel is that they
now have their own venture fund called
tin shed ventures they have their own
food company they are on this massive
mission but none of this mission is
accomplished if you don't have good
people that act in the right way and for
the last part of the show we've got a
couple of great clips that really go
directly like laser focused into what
they're doing with people and culture
and how they
make the uh the underlying environment
for uh great people to do their best
work within the organization now we've
talked a little bit about the book we've
talked a little bit about how the
company came uh to be
the the the way
they hire people and the empowerment
that they give them
is at the heart of their successes this
autonomous highly skilled highly
committed people so let's now have a
listen
to let's get inside of this story and
find out how they do it how they create
this great culture
how they hire people and how they in the
end let them go surfing
you know we wanted to be able to take
off a month or two and go on an
expedition
and do that you know two three times a
year or more
so that's that's the name of the book
you know that's that's where i got the
name for the book because we've had a
company policy that
you know one of the lessons of surfing
or powder skiing or any of those kind of
sports is that you don't get you don't
go surfing next tuesday at two o'clock
because you may
show up there and it's flat or blown out
and you're a loser
so
you know we have a company policy that
when the surf comes up everybody drops
their work that that is a serious surfer
and they go surfing
[Applause]
[Music]
[Applause]
you just got to be careful you don't
have 100 of your employees servers
so you know so
that means you got to hire very
responsible people and then let them get
their work done whenever they
feel like you know
as long as it doesn't impact other
people and and the work gets done i
don't care when they work
how many
ceos and founders and managers have you
ever come across that had that same
attitude i can't think of any yeah i
mean it just it just seems to fly in the
face
of conventional wisdom doesn't it it
just
where people are i think you know
providing a lot of value-add services in
the office place to try and keep them
there more yvonne chennard from
patagonia is like guys get out of here
go have some fun
go
fulfill your dreams because i know
you'll be a happier healthier more
productive person for me like it's i i
and he seems almost
so natural
with this
and obviously it comes from his own
renegade characteristics
he doesn't even seem to realize how
contrarian he is i mean
patrick
can you think of other contrarian
leaders that have achieved this success
well sure you mentioned one earlier
richard branson right of course steve
jobs of course you know yeah
i mentioned ron rice of hawaiian tropic
of course
uh well oprah winfrey i think in her own
way of course and i think it's but here
it's all about hire people you want to
hang out with right yeah you know in all
of their things that he was talking
about they they do run off and have
their
sessions intense ones it sounds like
about who they're who they are why do
they want to why they come to work in
the morning why they do what they do
and but still have a fun culture uh
still be
the purpose driven the ecology the all
of these things are just sensible things
that if you
are hiking surfing you are pretty close
to nature and you're in it and you can
see if you're damaging this the wall
or the crevasse that you're going up and
pounding uh spikes into pythons into and
everything and you can see when you're
walking down uh running down a path or
surfing you know bottles plastic bottles
and out floating out in the water of the
surf and so forth and i think once you
are that still that close to nature
some of this stuff makes so much more
sense than if you're sitting in a cube
somewhere yeah i think i think there is
this such beautiful alignment between
their values and the products that they
make
it becomes so easy to manage people
accordingly
but i i think the one thing we have to
realize there is a secret source in how
they do all of this
and um
you cannot possibly
just walk into any workforce and say hey
guys go surfing
this next clip is is where yvonne
really kind of puts a puts a point to
the characteristics that underlie this
this whole philosophy and how they can
build great products do very little harm
and how they can let people go surfing
so let's have a listen to yvonne chennai
talking about autonomy
you know we none of us
liked authority we really disliked
authority and none of us wanted to tell
other people what to do so
our management system is kind of like an
ant colony
um
you know an ant colony doesn't have any
bosses
the queen just lays there and lays eggs
there's no bosses in ant colony but
every single
ant knows what his job is
and gets it done and they communicate by
touching feelers and that's about it
and it's kind of like a seal team
if one guy in the seal team says oh
i don't know about this
thing we're going on i think i'm going
to just hold back a little bit it
doesn't work
every single person in that seal team
has to agree this is what he's going to
do
and if the leader gets killed the next
guy takes over and he gets killed the
next guy takes over it's
it's leaderless really
and that's our management style
so i hire
uh very independent
very
self-motivated people
who believe in what we're trying to do
and i leave them alone
and in fact i had a psychologist came
one time and studied our company and
said gee i gotta tell you
um
we did psychological profiles on a lot
of people you know to see if
make sure the right brain people were
working on right brain jobs and stuff
like that but i got to tell you
your people are
so the most independent people are ever
seen in a company in fact they're really
unemployable anywhere else
a good thing good thing you gave them
jobs
[Laughter]
i love the fact that they're so
autonomous you can't even they couldn't
work anywhere else
yeah
i kind of like to joke that you know 10
years into my entrepreneurial journey
i'm fundamentally unemployable not
because i don't have any skills but i
think it's because i have such a high
drive for autonomy which is why a
company like patagonia is so fascinating
and you know maybe i would consider
working for a company like them but
the thing that's missing from this clip
for me is like how do you identify those
people
and how can you be sure that you're
working with someone that has
the intelligence to work autonomously
and and get you know and take care of
their area
of responsibility i mean i can only
imagine how arduous and personal and
interpersonal that the hiring process is
well and patagonia because the trouble
with autonomy is you ask anybody hey you
want to be a more or do you want to have
an autonomous job i was like yeah that
sounds amazing
and then it's like you know be careful
what you asked for there
i would want to ask you and pat patrick
like you are both very autonomous
productive individuals writing books
making films sometimes with big teams
sometimes you're leading the charge by
yourself
how
what what is it the essence of that
characteristic for you patrick what what
what where does this autonomy start like
what's the filter how do you find it
yeah i would say that it has to be
self-motivated you have to be
self-motivated and want to get something
done and do something and yeah i'm
completely unemployable and so
i can give you a list of people to
contact to verify that but
just to support what um we've been
saying chris mcdivot tompkins
was roger mcdivitt's younger sister and
when she was in high school she had a
quote-unquote rebellious streak but when
she was graduating uh chris's counselor
told her mother i know you're planning
on sending christine to college don't
bother and she christine later became uh
general manager and ceo of patagonia for
13 years
and
so those are the people
from out of the beach culture the surf
culture mountain
culture and so forth all independent
people and i guess the question i mean
it'd be fascinating to find out how uh
you motivate someone like that um i
think that's a i did not find that in
the book
but uh i i'm sure they have lessons or
there are things to be learned lessons
for all of us there
it's it's quite remarkable to imagine
how
a system
can deliver so many great products over
so many decades
with all of these highly autonomous
people that are given the choice
to go surfing when they wish i i
actually think um it's it the proof is
there i think that
yvonne chinard has actually demonstrated
that if he's been in business in 68
if he's written the book he's got a
venture company a fashion and garment
company he's got a food company i think
we can safely assume that this does work
if you hire autonomous self-directed
people who are on a mission who who all
share this greater mission of building
great products
and doing as little harm as possible i
think what sums up yvonne
so brilliantly
is
this humility and simplicity by which he
goes about it
and the scale of the success that we've
all been talking about
is something that we're so aware of
that's why we chose him to do this show
that's why he's up there with the nikes
and the apples for us here at the
moonshots podcast but the craziest thing
is how
how humble he is
that in this not last and this next clip
which is our last clip of the show
it's only just dawning upon him
the scale of the impact
of his life's effort
of the brand of patagonia it's only
dawning upon him the impact
that he's had on the world so
without further ado let's have a listen
to our last clip of the founder of
patagonia yvonne chennai
you know we're a relatively small
company but we have
incredible amount of
social power around the world and
it's only dawned on me recently that
that we have this and there therefore
we probably have the responsibility to
use that power
and not just uh
hire other people to do the right thing
and stuff so
it's changed the way
our company operates instead of just
giving money away to
a bunch of ngos which we still do but
we're doing a lot more stuff ourselves
we're influencing
we're being asked to go to washington
almost every week now to
give advice on
dam removal and uh
i mean that's pretty amazing and
yeah i'm pretty stoked about you know
the climbs i did on l cap you know
they were really important for me at
that time it it built the character that
i am now probably but
i'm i'm
starting to be pretty proud of the
company too
how how humble is he man
i would hope he's
i love how he still says he's he was
stoked about his his l cap oh yeah
i mean it's like you can take him off
the off the
the rock face but you can't take the
dirt back out of him
it's really crazy well there are a
couple things out of that i think that
you know there's an intensity and
intelligence and integrity there but
it's kind of like leave the fun and fun
in and
you know don't be a yeah yeah
he he he really has that that clear
thing of here's what i want to be here's
what i don't want to be
and
by by creating great products by serving
customers by really solving the problem
with a product you can rely on and
hopefully for life
you can have this very
natural sustainable business where
people are empowered uh not only are
your customers empowered by your
products but
the people who work for you are
empowered and um no wonder everybody
wants to get a piece of yvonne chanad
and patagonia that they summons him to
to washington dc and beyond
i i think that
you know in in listening to him what
we're hearing is somebody who is
so down to earth but don't let that fool
you
deeply deeply motivated he's he's a
renegade he's on a mission
and even after all the success of
patagonia he has he said no it's not
just good enough to leave the world as
you found it
he's like no my legacy and everyone's
legacy should be to leave it in a better
place than we found it so he's already
lifting his game again which
chad i mean i think this is pretty
inspiring for this guy who's out there
surfing and he's plus 70 years of age
and he's still climbing
metaphorically speaking big mountains
yeah i
the 10x
that i've uncovered in these clips is
really around creating something that
people need as opposed to focusing on
what they think people want
i know patrick you're kind of talking
about this how companies are now
obsessed with user studies and focus
groups and
and asking people what people you know
what they want i this idea of like
buying a product and never having to buy
another one ever again because it'll be
recycled and replaced and repaired
you know
for life
is i don't i don't see how you can get
any better than that i mean unless they
figure out this nanobot technology that
like replicates the things after you buy
them like that's the only place i can
see i can see them going after this and
i think
they do stand alone
in
in the clothing and fashion and retail
category because of
that product obsession and removing all
you know barriers in the customer's mind
of why why they need it yeah i think
that you know in the end he's he's still
the village blacksmith you know building
better things yeah simple well made last
a long time yeah
so simple so true but it takes so much
hard work to do but i can tell you guys
that this podcast has not been hard to
produce
with you chad and our special guest
patrick hanlon i walk out of this and
i'm thinking if i ever
create another company
if i look at the companies that i'm
involved with now
the bar has just been raised
significantly after being inspired by
yvonne chennai for you patrick what's
the big takeaway what what changes after
studying ivan schneider for you
don't be a
so true
so true don't be a and chad
what are you walking away with
uh
[Music]
again going back to kind of their
obsession with their products like don't
assume that something that you didn't
think could be done before can't be done
so
polyester clothing's never been recycled
so therefore we can't do it well
actually maybe not let me you know let's
look into it let's let's scour the globe
and find the best artisans
or you know maybe we can't make this
quarter anymore well actually i've heard
of this this you know factory in
scotland that maybe they can do it i
think
because
because yvonne came from this lifestyle
where he was living in a out of a van
you know with the clothes on his back
and he just just climbing mountains and
he had to be an extremely resourceful
person you know he bought his own forge
and anvil and taught himself how to make
his pythons or his pitons so
yeah he just he you know actually this
is interesting he kind of in a way goes
back to
first principles and thinking in a way
that elon musk does but from kind of a
ground up point of view instead of kind
of just pointed out into the sky like
yeah like elon he just he doesn't take
anything for granted and doesn't really
hold any assumptions so i guess that's
all to say like i'm gonna question some
things a little bit more and you know
not take take so many things for granted
uh and think that well they have to stay
the same yeah yeah i want to add
actually i want to add something you
know i've always felt like a juvenile
delinquent and
so this sucks i'm going to do my own
thing has always been sort of in my
brain anyway but i really like this
notion of
the falconry term the eric thing we
mentioned earlier about
being in a constant state of super
alertness and
hungry ready to hunt
[Music]
wow well
so so fortunate to share with both
yourselves and the listeners guys i want
to thank you patrick hanlon thanks for
the foster of primal branding you have
given us some primal
thinking you have inspired us
helped us decode what i think chad has
been one of the greatest entrepreneurs
one of the most exciting entrepreneurs
we've done on the show today correct
yeah but before we let you go patrick i
just wanted you to have a chance you
know to give a short little plug for
yourself where can we find you online uh
etc oh sure uh you can find me on
amazon.com
uh primal branding is the first book it
is i should probably mentioned put in a
plug
uh it's required reading at youtube and
the second book the social code is now
an audible book
and um it's only 40 minutes long so a
little bit shorter than this podcast
and uh
and i'm working on a third
so watch for that there is another book
on the way that'll be done in uh out in
two or three months
nice
nice
well thank you patrick
uh thank you chad thanks for having me
you're so welcome and uh for all of the
listeners you can get all the show notes
you can give us feedback you can find
out our next shows you can find out all
of this information at moonshots
dot i o and and chad i think we've got
to the point
where we're uh we're ready to to bid
farewell what's what's rest what's the
rest of the evening in uh brooklyn have
in store for you
oh you know just uh heading back from
dumbo to clinton hill uh my neighborhood
uh i i get to to walk to work it's uh
it's i guess my form of surfing in my my
moving walking meditation
and just you know looking forward to
enjoying the spring weather that has
finally arrived here and patrick what's
what's next in minneapolis is is there a
warmth emanating is it is it
warm enough to ride around that that
lake on the bike that we know you love
to do yes and no ironically we sat out
on the deck uh over the weekend and we
put the table out for the first time and
i said isn't it a little odd to be
sitting between two snow drifts
well it's the optimism my wife my wife
said no not at all
we we admire the optimism and and i'm
sure yvonne chennai would as well i'm
i'm gonna launch into my day here in
sydney australia i want to thank you
both again i want to thank all of our
listeners i want to remind them
everything you need about the show is
that moonshots
dot io and i want to thank everybody for
being part of the journey into patagonia
and one of the most inspiring
entrepreneurs to date on the show yvonne
chennard so thank you to all of you
thank you to our listeners
and we'll catch you next time on the
moonshots podcast that's a wrap
[Music]
you