After involvement with the same man, Wifey, Shun and Baby Mama, Shannon have formed a unique bond to keep their children and family united in spite of society norms that tend to pit one against the other.
Shun (00:36.918)
Hey, I'm Sean.
Shannon (00:38.48)
Hi, and I'm Shannon.
Shun (00:40.372)
And we're the host of wifey and baby mama. Happy Thursday family. Happy Thursday, baby mama. Yes. Welcome to after our break. No, that was two weeks ago. That was two weeks ago, Shannon. Yeah, that was two weeks
Shannon (00:46.322)
Happy Thursday.
Shun (01:03.82)
We only have two more weeks of wife and baby mama left before this season is over. my god I don't know how to feel about this shannon, but you know what has happened so Here we go, but
Shannon (01:13.689)
Yeah.
Shannon (01:21.104)
Yeah.
I know.
Shun (01:28.492)
We wouldn't end our season with that bringing back one of our most popular guests that's been on wifey and baby mama and not because she's my girl now I'm a bestie but because she bad she bad to the bone. So joining us again tonight is miss Tamara's Intel president and CEO of every business you can think of okay, but they all successful I Named them all last show. So, you know, she's baby. Listen, she ain't no one hit wonder baby. She do it all
Shannon (01:35.196)
Yeah. Yes, he is.
Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (01:46.87)
Hahaha!
Shannon (01:47.379)
Yes.
Shun (01:55.596)
So I named all her talents and all of her accomplishments. So if you were not here, shame on you, go do your homework and listen. She was on episode seven with this guy. So run back and run them titles down, but T, we're gonna have you for the sake of the order. Introduce yourself to the listeners again, please.
Tamara Zantell (02:10.728)
Absolutely. Hey, hey everyone. I'm so excited to be back with my girls. Always a good time. So yes, I am Tamara Zantel. I'm the CEO and founder of Raising a Mogul, where we work with family-led and micro businesses, helping them get visible, get in order and build systems around their dreams. I also have a special niche for kidpreneurs and youth entrepreneurship.
I also owned Legacy Brain Creators and We're a Done for You agency, websites, publishing, all the things. But I got my start, actually, I started because of my nine-year-old daughter decided she wanted to make lip balm and turn it into a multimillion dollar business. So yeah, by the time she was 16, I was working for her. So that's just a little bit about me and how I got here.
Shun (02:40.14)
you
Shannon (02:53.714)
All right.
Shannon (03:00.362)
And we're so happy. I gotta give it a clap, clap, clap. We are so happy to have you back with us. We appreciate you coming back to join us.
Tamara Zantell (03:11.768)
Thank you for having me.
Shun (03:12.532)
Absolutely, because at the auto I get tired listen to the titles, baby I don't know how she do it. But yes, she deserves a round of applause for fitting us in
Tamara Zantell (03:16.651)
You
Shannon (03:16.942)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (03:19.022)
That is not what we're here for. But we're here to talk about a different type of experience, right?
Shun (03:24.876)
So Now that y'all hear about everything that she does, know everything that we do we gonna get in we gonna get into it tonight so Tonight we're going to discuss one of my more Personal topics choice of chance, you know, this is something that's very personal for me because this is such a What's the word? I'm looking for guys when people don't agree. It's such a controversial topic, right? That's it's such a choice or chance. So
Shannon (03:29.596)
You
Shun (03:54.276)
If you all can probably follow us, you know where we're going, right? We're going to talk about tonight when people make choices or when chance at life happens, right? Spur them on my opportunities, know bad decisions. We've all been there, you know, but continued patterns at some point become choices, you know, and we got to lay the church down and say, know what? We got to call this thing. So tonight we're going to talk about that because Shannon and I always preach stick into your vows at all costs if you can, you know, the Bible only give us a few good reasons. What that move a few good men?
Shannon (04:19.726)
huh.
Shun (04:23.52)
The Bible will give us a few good reasons that we can walk away, you know from from from a thing, know this commitments but in marriage We're talking about marriage if you're in a relationship You can call that pretty much when you want to because if I haven't taken in vows with you You don't get that many chances to play with me But when we put the stock into it when we put the time into it, know guys We tend to be a little more lenient lady So I want to know tomorrow you knew you were first because your guests you know the rules You've been here more than once. You know, I'm coming at you first
Shannon (04:24.006)
Hahaha.
Tamara Zantell (04:47.79)
I'm ready.
Shun (04:52.07)
When do you feel or do you feel it's ever a chance? Or I'm sorry, it's ever an episode where you give someone a chance at infidelity or anything, you know that you say, you know, is it one time? Is it choice? Do you have any leniency when it comes to that?
Tamara Zantell (05:07.232)
so younger me probably would have been like, absolutely not. hell no, right? However, the more seasoned and refined version of me, I know better. I know better. I know that we all make mistakes. And I know that at times we always don't show up as our best selves in any type of relationship, whether that's a sibling relationship, parenting, child relationship, friendship relationship, whatever it is.
Shun (05:08.972)
She's so cool.
Shannon (05:12.69)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shun (05:29.036)
Absolutely.
Tamara Zantell (05:33.294)
and specifically in a loving relationship or cohabitation marriage relationship. And I think, you know, as you grow older, as I have gotten older, can, I've possessed the ability to look at myself, understand my faults and forgive those and work through and grow through those. And I can understand that, you know, at some point I might not have been the best person I could have been to you for me, to me, you know? So not to say that's an excuse.
but I could understand how at some point in my life I could have been probably impossible to live with. Or, know, if you had to, something happened, it happened, you know, but I do believe in the power of forgiveness. Now, after we done made it through and we done did all the things and it happens again, it's no longer oops or a mistake, now we're talking about a pattern and we have to have a different conversation.
Shun (06:08.757)
And I.
Shannon (06:10.418)
you
Shun (06:28.85)
And now that's a choice. I absolutely agree and I'm happy you you brought in the fact that it's not just relationships, which is what you know, we try to focus on here building and keeping good healthy relationships, but Mine is more. Well, I have had that issue with choice of chance in my relationship Please don't get me wrong. But like you said as a mature and it wasn't infidelity Thank God, but I still feel in this marriage. it definitely was the first time around but this time, you know, it had
Tamara Zantell (06:49.614)
Mm-hmm.
Tamara Zantell (06:53.548)
I'm sorry.
Shun (06:56.46)
And that's the key you don't want to write you don't want to fight the same demon over and over you know that that's definitely not what we want to do so in this one it's been Kind of what what serves me what serves you you know like what what does it take for you to maintain? Or remain in this relationship, and if my husband tells me like is this is absolutely a deal-breaker for me I may slip and be like you know I need to work on myself, but we got to realize when it's not infidelity when it's other things like habit or growth or
Tamara Zantell (07:01.027)
Right.
Shun (07:25.918)
Even generational things sometimes it's harder to break than a one conversation. You know what I'm saying? So I want everyone to be clear Infidelity, I really don't have a lot of time for that at this big age of 48 Okay, but learning the anger dealing with my husband's anger or him dealing with his mouth because it gets real hectic I told you don't talk to me We may have to have that conversation more than once So we want you guys to be real clear about that when you're breaking like real stuff. It may take more than one conversation
Tamara Zantell (07:32.299)
Absolutely.
Shannon (07:47.355)
Yeah.
Shun (07:55.328)
But disrespect and loving your wife or husband and doing things don't do anything to me You don't want done to you and we shouldn't have to have that conversation more than once. So I want to get Go ahead Shannon. I'm sorry. I just wanted to distinct the two go ahead. I'm I was done
Tamara Zantell (08:00.842)
Absolutely.
Shannon (08:02.29)
Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry.
Yeah, no, I was going to say because emotional abuse a lot of times gets overlooked. think, you know, young people think, OK, he's not putting his hands on me. He's not hurting me or whatever. But emotional abuse is just as, you know, crucial to a relationship. And to touch on something you said earlier, you know, with the young people that
You know, a lot of people think the way we used to think, I'm sure that a relationship is supposed to be perfect and they don't want to put any work into anything. And we didn't want to put any work as soon as there was something we were out, you know, whatever, or for the most part, most of us. I do know young people that still go through things that they shouldn't, but understanding when you need to ask for help and knowing that
Tamara Zantell (08:44.376)
Mmm.
Shannon (09:07.566)
any relationship, whether it's your marriage or your friendships, even your work coworkers, we go through stuff that sometimes we're going to need to kind of put a little bit of effort in unless, you know, it's a clear sign of crazy coming at you.
Tamara Zantell (09:26.734)
I love that.
Shun (09:28.396)
And speaking of which, have, you know, that in a family member that I dealt with for years, I kept trying to maintain this thing because I knew she was making a choice to be the way she was, but I'm like, it's my family, it's my family, it's my family. You don't do that. The Bible says, you know, don't create turmoil. Try to make peace with your family. All those things. Family tell you, we're family. We don't do that. You got to stay together. But at some point you got to call it.
Tamara Zantell (09:50.424)
Mm-hmm.
Tamara Zantell (09:55.598)
Yeah, I totally agree. And what I hear you saying, yeah. And one of the things I hear you saying is the importance of being able to break free from harmful cycles. That's what it sounds like. And really just understanding that being able to identify and break free from patterns or people that hinder our growth. So wherever the pattern shows up, it could be family, like you're saying, or it could just be any situation that hinders your growth, right?
Shannon (09:56.848)
Yeah.
Shun (09:57.856)
You gotta call it.
Tamara Zantell (10:21.164)
we need to find the coverage in ourselves to be like, you know, that self-assessment. And I think that's why I said sometimes as you get older, you mature into being able to do this, the self-assessment. So you can look at yourself and say, you know what, this isn't working. Is this working self? Does this feel good? You know, and kind of going back to what Shannon said is like, sometimes young people, yes, Shannon think relationships are meant to be perfect. But other times, depending on the situation that the young person grew up in, they might think relationships are meant to be hard.
Shun (10:31.285)
Absolutely.
Tamara Zantell (10:49.964)
Right? So I don't think they're meant to be perfect, but I also don't think they're meant to be a struggle. You know? So that's when it's like having that wherewithal of being able to understand what feels good to me, what isn't working and to stop justifying harmful dynamics and just really understanding that growth demands action. And it's not intention. It's not, not just intention. You know, you can't just be like fitting to go. You have to like be prepared to actually walk away, you know?
Shannon (10:50.01)
Yeah, yeah.
Shannon (10:55.11)
That's right.
Shannon (11:04.794)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon (11:11.506)
right.
Yeah.
Exactly. That's a thin line when they say there's a thin line.
Shun (11:17.484)
Absolutely.
Tamara Zantell (11:20.3)
Right.
Shun (11:20.978)
And Shana You even said with work. I'm gonna tell you something with that. It's a very real thing in the workplace as well I attended a seminar back when I was casting for the film let's let's get lit. I think it was and please don't forgive me the beautiful soul that invited me She was so sweet. her name was Lisa, but my mind escapes me y'all but I'm just referring to it I think it's called let's get lit It was a program that teach young children about reading and she makes these little notes
Tamara Zantell (11:26.126)
Hmm.
Shun (11:50.656)
So I think you might be a friend on Facebook. I think I've seen you guys share stuff. But yeah, right, you know, she makes little milk Shannon where she makes in book bus stations in you know hospitals Yeah, they're like little mobile libraries that she goes set up and you know She yeah and it encourages young people to you know, get back into reading again Well at that at that seminar another night. I think her name was Sean Shonda Brown. She spoke She has a book out as well. It talks about workplace freakin
Tamara Zantell (11:53.398)
Yes, yeah.
Tamara Zantell (12:01.752)
They like book libraries. Yeah.
Shannon (12:06.22)
nice, yeah.
Shun (12:20.396)
Boundaries, know people we have to have them. So the next episode system on his thumb the guys I'm gonna get the name of that book and I'm get it right But I'm this is a really good book and you should all read it But I wasn't prepared to talk about this but as we flow, you know, it just comes to my spirit She talks about workplace choice or chance, know co-workers can have bad days Just like husband wives and family members, right? But if every day you have something harmful today to say for instance, I have this co-worker who
You found it necessary one day when I was late to go and ask the boss where it was instead of asking me Are you good? she okay? She's one time and she's late every single day So when the boss come in she goes, you okay? You know, have a slip. I said no, I'm over in another court I just decided to stop in I'll be over in a second, you know And we work with several different court systems in the DA's office and when I got there I asked her I said, did you need anything?
Tamara Zantell (12:56.291)
Mmm.
Shun (13:16.276)
I said well the next time you need to know where I am, why don't you call my phone or text my phone just like you did the bosses? She said I don't mean anything about that. I said well let me make sure it don't happen again. Because you're late every single day and I've never felt the need to do that to you. But you know what I figured out? She was throwing off, she was throwing the smoke off of her pad. Let me let the boss know she's late because I'm late every day and maybe she won't watch me. But I let her know quickly I wasn't the one to play with. You understand? And I recognized what that was but I let it go.
Tamara Zantell (13:33.432)
Mm-hmm.
Tamara Zantell (13:41.208)
Yeah.
Shannon (13:41.841)
right.
Shun (13:45.128)
Only to find out two weeks later, she covered her file for me. She goes, you wrote a post it to a client instead of putting it on letterhead. She's like, I told the boss, I thought that was so funny.
Tamara Zantell (13:55.144)
Ooh. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Shun (13:55.872)
So y'all know how that go and I got silent because I can't say the words that I said on this Christian on this on this Christian podcast But let's say this that was her last time speaking to me We hide by and that's it you don't get that many choices to laugh and joke in my face that you're not my friend So with that I'm saying I maybe she just made a bad choice the first time by asking the boss. Is she late? The second time you wrote a note because had you looked farther than the foul? It was there. The note was it the post that was an addendum
Shannon (13:59.602)
you
Tamara Zantell (14:03.148)
Right.
Shannon (14:12.305)
Right.
Tamara Zantell (14:16.386)
Mm-hmm.
Shun (14:26.186)
So check yourself honey and play with your mom and not me. So she and I don't speak anymore.
Tamara Zantell (14:28.12)
So here, yeah, so here what you're talking about is that role of the patterns, the patterns in decision making, right? So highlight the difference between the one-off mistake, maybe, and then, you know, that happens by chance, and then the repeated behavior that reveal intentional choices. So like, yeah, of who you are.
Shannon (14:28.946)
Yeah.
Shun (14:36.054)
There you go.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shun (14:46.468)
Who you are and what and goes back to what you said to my I don't need you in my space You don't serve me sweetheart. So you go on about your business because those kind of people can lead you in a bad place So it's best to separate yourself Okay, because that wouldn't too well in the workplace number three might not have went her way So it's best to just you know, go the other way So she and I like I said now we do work stuff and that's it. We used to you know, follow each other talk about kids
Shannon (14:46.524)
Right.
Tamara Zantell (14:50.464)
I see you.
Tamara Zantell (15:04.334)
You
Shun (15:14.189)
Because let me tell you something that's intimate stuff to me and I consider you not a friend and associate right if I let you have those kind of access to my Facebook and Baby, once I find out who you are I no longer need you around me because if you're not working For me, then you're working against me and I don't need anybody like that in my life You understand what I'm saying? Because if I'm your friend Shannon or your associate I only have good things for you or I wouldn't be around you and that's the kind of people I want around me. Yeah
Shannon (15:17.714)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Shannon (15:27.73)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon (15:31.612)
Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (15:34.636)
I agree.
Shannon (15:35.143)
Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (15:40.462)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon (15:40.986)
Right, right. Yeah, yeah.
Tamara Zantell (15:43.18)
And you know, that you share in that story really makes me think about how much cultural or societal influences have on this whole idea, this whole conversation we're having. So whether it's staying in a marriage or in any type of relationship that's failing, or even if we think about the workplace relationships, we're kind of told that we need to stick it out and just kind of deal with it, you know?
Shun (16:04.908)
Mm-hmm.
Tamara Zantell (16:06.434)
So I think that's an interesting thing to think about the pressures and cultural norms and how they shape our choices. And I feel like those choices alone, it could often lead to repeated mistakes or repeated positioning ourselves to be taken advantage of or to be harmed over and over again, until we consciously make a conscious decision to break free. A lot of us don't realize, and it just goes back to what Shannon was saying, it doesn't have to be a physical abuse.
Shun (16:25.352)
Absolutely.
Tamara Zantell (16:36.416)
It's like, we don't realize we're in an abusive relationship until we're like, wait a minute, what's happening? I know this doesn't ever feel good, you know? And I think, know, realize, yeah, that could happen in so many different scenarios until we like, that's why I think it's so important that we need to slow it down and pay attention and really set this, I do this thing every year, every, the start of, know, most people are doing like resolutions and new year, new me and all that kind of stuff.
Shun (16:37.047)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon (16:41.988)
Right. Right.
Shun (16:44.546)
Right!
Shun (17:04.722)
affirmations and yeah.
Tamara Zantell (17:05.098)
Reaffirmations. Yeah, and it's you know, I think there's a place for all that but what I do is I rewrite my my my it would be a call to manifesto but for me it's I call it a woman a festo because I'm being extra but it's really like a declaration of like who I am what I want what I stand for what I don't stand for You know, what type of delicious experiences I want in my life What type of people do I want to surround myself with? know, just kind of like
Shannon (17:24.518)
Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (17:30.99)
putting a framework around how, you know, what my intentions are moving forward in a vision casting type of way. And when you, until you're mature enough to do something like that, you really don't have a whole lot of boundaries. So it's hard to know or to recognize when it's time to check someone or when you're being abused or when you're in one of these negative patterns we're talking about, if you're not really careful and you're not paying attention to yourself. So now, since I do that and I'm very clear,
Shannon (17:44.86)
Right.
Shannon (17:58.555)
Mm-hmm.
Tamara Zantell (18:00.672)
I see it coming a mile away. As soon as it starts to creep up, I'm like, whoop, back up. You know?
Shun (18:03.636)
Man It's the truth. I don't do woman. don't do woman fat man woman at festo's but i'm telling you right now The digger you deep the i'm sorry. Yeah, the deeper you dig. Let me yeah the deeper the deeper you dig into you That's when all this comes up, you know, so you don't have to even write it down. It's great to write it down I think I will start but the deeper you dig into yourself the more you find out who you are Right and when I find out who I am
Shannon (18:03.728)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (18:09.779)
Thank
Shannon (18:10.45)
You
Shannon (18:14.482)
deeper.
Tamara Zantell (18:19.286)
Yeah.
Shannon (18:21.67)
Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (18:29.39)
Yeah.
Shannon (18:30.374)
Right.
Shun (18:31.782)
This version of me in 2024 the 2022 version accepted way more than she should have you know what I'm saying? So the the deeper we dig that is so important what you just said I mean Shannon do you agree like I just can't continue to go for the same things you know as I grow you have to grow with me or you have to go away from me like bottom line
Tamara Zantell (18:38.099)
yes.
Shannon (18:44.103)
yeah, I do. yeah.
Tamara Zantell (18:50.409)
Ooh, yes ma'am.
Shannon (18:51.142)
Yeah, but we do have to realize that so many people are passive aggressive. know, they hold so much and they take a lot of stuff on, they let it build up until they react and then people are calling them crazy. So having the conversation that we're having right now to say to folks, you know, you don't have to, you know, change tomorrow.
but just look at yourself and say, how much stuff do I take on? And then I blow up because I used to be that way. And people would say, I thought you were so nice. And now I know you're crazy. Well, now they know. I am no longer passive aggressive. I speak whatever, if I'm feeling some type of way, I don't hold it in, but I don't have to be crazy with it. And in my youth, I was that girl that
Tamara Zantell (19:18.958)
Hmm.
Shun (19:34.475)
you
Shun (19:43.552)
That's right.
Shannon (19:47.946)
would sit back and smile and just, because most passive aggressive people, want to be liked or whatever, or they don't want to rock the boat. So that's why so many women get in situations where they are emotional, physical, whatever type of abuse they take a lot of stuff on. And even at work.
Shun (19:57.377)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon (20:12.326)
You know, I stand up for myself at work no matter who it is. I don't care what your title is, you know, if I feel some type of way, you're going to know. Yeah, yeah. But it took, you know, of course, growth and getting, you know, some steam or fire behind me to say, I deserve to speak up for me because who's going to speak up for me? But without sounding crazy.
Shun (20:17.974)
Notice, right?
Tamara Zantell (20:41.475)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon (20:41.714)
I don't want to be that person that holds it in, holds it in, you know, hey, I've been treating you this way, you know, for 15 years and now all of a sudden you're, you know, shooting me or, you know, stabbing me or, you know, doing something stupid. Yeah. So I want the young people to understand. Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (20:56.76)
I love that you
Shun (20:57.068)
or how many times
Yeah, but how many times do we hear those court cases, right? And you hear a woman, sometimes men too, they murder or kill their spouse, right? And then they go, they were abusing me for years and they go, well, there's no report of that. No one ever knew. You know what I found working in law enforcement and just being a woman? Sometimes you don't write it down. Sometimes no one knows. And one day you just get freaking tired. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Shannon (21:09.744)
Yeah.
Shannon (21:15.686)
Right.
Shun (21:25.74)
But if we deal with life the way we're telling people to deal with it, it doesn't get to that. You know what I mean? So women or men, if it's happening, write it down, report it or get away. You know, don't let it build up. Like you said, Shannon, 15, 20 years and one day you blow they freaking out. Now you're, now you're fighting for your life to defend the rest of your life because you finally got tired of it because it really was happened because you never told anyone because no one ever knew. Now you're a liar and you just, you know, you're just a bad person. You're now you're just a cold blooded murderer.
Tamara Zantell (21:41.87)
Yeah.
Shannon (21:52.466)
Yeah, But even if it's not that extreme, I'm sorry I went that far with it. But even if it's not that far, yeah.
Shun (21:58.934)
But it get no no no But you didn't go that far in my career I just saw the need to go I saw the need to bring that point out because and maybe we're not even talking murder but it's talking 15 years or you just getting abused and you just get beat down until either you do snap or you know, You snap in the workplace. You might go off and turn over the copy machine. You ain't killed nobody but you done broke their equipment or Or you just turn over the Thanksgiving table one day because you've had it with your family members sister cousin brother
Tamara Zantell (21:59.638)
Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (22:08.291)
Yeah.
Shannon (22:09.04)
Yeah.
Shannon (22:15.044)
Yeah.
Shannon (22:21.286)
Right.
Shannon (22:26.898)
Yeah.
Shun (22:28.716)
Talking to you crazy every time you see him. Whatever it is, what we're saying is cut it before it gets to that point. Don't allow anyone else to get you to that space. You have a choice.
Shannon (22:31.302)
Right, right.
Tamara Zantell (22:34.797)
Yeah.
Shannon (22:35.378)
Yeah, or your marriage could have been saved if you would have been true to yourself from the beginning. There are things you could work on if you speak up for yourself in your vocal and in a civil way, what's going on. But if you wait and hold it all in and let it blow up and let it become something that it shouldn't have never been, then that's how I
Tamara Zantell (22:38.348)
I think at some point...
Shannon (23:03.662)
In my opinion, a lot of relationships and marriages fail because no one is being, or that passive aggressive person or maybe two passive aggressive people are not being truthful with who they are. And I think that's very harmful.
Tamara Zantell (23:14.542)
Yeah, definitely think pulling together what both of you are saying is that at some point, just the bottom line is we need to recognize that staying in toxic cycles, whether it's with family, friends or partners, really reflects on our own choices. I know you have to be really ready and mature enough to accept that, but the bottom line is if every holiday turns into a family fight or every conversation with spouse,
Shun (23:32.501)
Absolutely.
Shannon (23:32.53)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (23:41.536)
is like walking on eggshells, you know, it's like, it's time for us to like stand back and ask like, am I choosing by staying silent? Am I choosing by staying silent or not? Like, what am I saying by staying silent and not addressing it, not doing anything? What am I saying, right? So it's this idea of breaking the cycle by acknowledging the role that we play and enabling it. And I really, that's what I hear you all say in a little bit.
Shannon (23:55.334)
Right.
Shun (23:55.382)
That's right.
Tamara Zantell (24:07.692)
And then also, I think it's important for us to kind of talk through a couple of practical steps. Like, what does this look like? Of course, it's gonna be different for everyone, but I think identifying the pattern for one is really a big step. know, like what keeps happening and how does it affect you? Being self-aware enough to pay attention to your body and how you absorb the situation. It's like, this doesn't feel good. You know, I don't think we ever said so long ago, like, does this feel good? How is this affecting me?
Shannon (24:19.474)
Yeah.
Shun (24:20.53)
Absolutely.
Shun (24:34.07)
Mm-hmm.
Tamara Zantell (24:37.358)
And then from there, being able to communicate clearly, know, share those boundaries I talked about earlier and expectations for everybody that's involved and then take some action, right? If nothing changes, you said this several times, like, I think you said, either you get on board or you get away from me, something like that. And I was like, okay, so if nothing changes, we need to be prepared to walk away or enforce consequences. What does that look like? You know?
Shun (24:55.061)
Absolutely.
Shun (25:02.824)
Absolutely, absolutely and I think we need to be fair doing that and not doing what Shannon said not waiting 15 months two years three years before we speak out Address it immediately right because now you give a person a chance You can't hold it in for five years and be like, know You've been treating me bad for five years when they're like what I do I didn't know that you know I didn't know that telling you to color red didn't look good on you was was affecting your whole life You know so that you're just holding that in so
Tamara Zantell (25:10.231)
Yeah.
Shannon (25:22.883)
Right.
Sorry.
Tamara Zantell (25:29.475)
Yeah.
Shun (25:32.652)
We got to make sure to be vocal about it as well. You got to be fair to the other person involved, which is why, let me tell y'all why I feel so free in December of 2025, why I feel so free. Because I told you, I told you time and time again, what was going to happen if this behavior continued. At that point, now you got to make a choice if you want to be in my life. And if that behavior continues, then you made your choice and now I got to make mine. And that's the bottom of
Tamara Zantell (25:43.116)
Hmm.
Tamara Zantell (25:56.2)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I want to make one other point. I talked about early a little bit about us, societal norms and things like that that hold us back from making an actual choice and maybe walking away, which is what we're kind of talking about. So, but one of the things, so I kind of want to give the listeners like permission, right? So when we think about faith and forgiveness, we've been again trained to think it's ungodly to leave.
or you need to just keep accepting it, or you just forgive, turn the other cheek, right? That's what we grew, many of us have grown up hearing, right? And so it's like this idea around that faith calls for us to forgive, but forgiveness doesn't mean accepting harm repeatedly. It doesn't mean staying in the talk with men.
Shannon (26:25.03)
Yeah.
Shannon (26:29.404)
Hmm.
Shannon (26:39.388)
That's right.
Shun (26:39.766)
Forgiveness is forgiveness. does not mean forget forgiveness is for you. So you don't care that toxicity It doesn't mean staying with him. That doesn't always mean that so I said that in the opening statement laying the church down That's what I meant not the excuse in the church or moving outside of the church is exactly what you said So we got it. We got to be able to distinguish that thing Don't allow what you've been taught or society like you said to my or tradition
Tamara Zantell (26:43.894)
Right, right.
right.
Tamara Zantell (26:53.122)
Yes.
Shannon (26:55.986)
you
Tamara Zantell (26:58.326)
Yes.
Shun (27:06.6)
my grandmother stayed in her mayor. She got beat or my grandmother stayed in her mayor. She got cheated on No, ma'am, we're gonna lay them. We're gonna lay the church down and that's I mean by that Don't always don't always use that as a clutch deal with your issues deal with your issues That's right
Shannon (27:08.562)
huh. Yeah. Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (27:09.442)
Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, food.
Tamara Zantell (27:18.762)
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Faith isn't always about tolerating, you know, everything. It's about believing in your worth and choosing what aligns with your purpose.
Shun (27:29.098)
And you gotta you gotta call it at some point for your safety and your well-being and i'm not talking about physically harm Mental like shannon stated is so important any of it So ladies, I this has been a great dialogue as usual do y'all got anything else before we wrap up? Good I got anything else tomorrow
Shannon (27:36.972)
Any of it. Yeah. Yeah.
Tamara Zantell (27:43.896)
You
Shannon (27:44.556)
It has been.
Tamara Zantell (27:47.982)
I think it's important for us to, as we close out, we did give some practical steps, I'm excited about, but I also think it's important for us to be okay with making a mistake, right? We're learning and we're living, that's what life is all about. So we have to understand that mistake is, every mistake we make is an opportunity for us to learn. And a pattern is just a signal, I think that we're choosing comfort over growth.
Shannon (28:01.85)
Yes, yes.
Shun (28:01.888)
Mm hmm. Yep.
Shun (28:10.143)
That's right.
Shannon (28:10.418)
Bye.
Tamara Zantell (28:16.706)
So it's time for us to a little uncomfortable and start going after what we want and living on purpose.
Shun (28:19.808)
That's right.
If you're not uncomfortable, you're not growing. That's a that's just a fact if you're not uncomfortable You are not growing because comfort isn't comfort isn't growth isn't comfort. I'm gonna tell you that right now I think we all three know that All right. So thank you tomorrow Yeah, I was just about to ask you Shannon. Do you have anything else?
Shannon (28:23.024)
Yes.
Right. Yeah.
Shannon (28:34.418)
Yeah. And I'm saying, yeah, thank you, Tamara. And I'm thinking, yeah, I'm thinking we're going to have to definitely do a part two on this because Tamara, you just made me think of something that I know a lot of us do as human beings when we're in certain situations. Like, for example, when me and my husband first got married and or not first got married, probably a couple of years in and, you know, things happen and or, you know,
Tamara Zantell (28:38.99)
I'm
Shannon (29:04.194)
the the stuff the fault finding and this and that and a lot of times there's always that one I'm gonna say me that think it's always them. It's you issue issue and One day he said to me, know, you're not that easy to live with You're a very difficult person and it took you know Me stepping back and saying okay Like what they always say it takes to the tangle
And a lot of people can't look at themselves and understand and be accountable for what they do. So we'll definitely have to do a part two to talk about how you recognize your own crap and whatever.
Tamara Zantell (29:45.302)
Hmm. Yes, yes.
Shun (29:49.036)
And the choices yeah, I get that but but I'm gonna say this we can definitely explore that but I'm tell you this though just from that little snippet It's nothing and I ain't easy either because I told you how this mouth is vicious and it's a two-edged sword But it's nothing I should be able to do to you if we took vows to make you disrespect our marriage in a way that that you know Well, it's because you did this to me. I don't ever let that be an excuse You don't like my mouth. Talk to me about it. We can work on it and guess what?
Shannon (29:51.898)
Yes, yes.
Shannon (30:08.906)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right.
Shun (30:17.448)
If I continue to disrespect you or say things you don't like then you make a choice to leave me Cheating or doing some other stuff to think that you're gonna use that as an excuse. You're definitely got me wrong So yeah, we'll have to do a part two to that because we don't want to give him my out either Okay, let's deal with it
Shannon (30:28.359)
Right.
Tamara Zantell (30:32.416)
Right. Let's deal with it. I like that. That's a good way to close out. Let's deal with it.
Shannon (30:32.784)
Right, yes. That would be the name.
Shun (30:38.156)
There with it so that will be for season Top it let's deal with it. So I got it first here on a December Okay in December of 24 you got a topic for 25. But anyways, we're gonna wrap it up I thank you lady tomorrow as always honey. It's been a pleasure It doesn't get any realer than you girlfriend and we are happy to have you on our platform anytime Because you know it doing some good
Shannon (30:57.7)
Yes, we are.
Tamara Zantell (30:59.758)
I appreciate you both. Always, always a good time. A real good time. A real, it's real. Ain't nobody fretting over here. It is. And we'll be laying it all on the table. like, take what you can, take what you need and leave the rest.
Shannon (31:05.648)
Hehehehehe
Shun (31:05.95)
I really like a real right ain't no faking going on
Shannon (31:09.575)
Yeah.
Shun (31:16.36)
Leave the rest of it, but we're putting it out there. But we'll wrap up tonight, family, with something real simple. Whether we're going to admit it or not, we've all made a bad choice at one time or another. And some of us, definitely myself, have forgiven probably more times than we'd like to admit, or maybe more times than is acceptable by society's standards. However, we must all remember our self-worth, respect, and integrity should be what matters.
Shannon (31:16.834)
Yes, yes, that's right.
Shun (31:45.098)
when it comes to choice of chance. Because in the end, only the people involved in that situation really know the full truth. My mom used to say, it's your side, his side, and the truth somewhere in the middle, right? So don't allow what anyone else thinks to make you stay or go. Make that choice from a personal space inside your soul. Because we're all kings and queens, right? And we should handle ourselves as such and in a way every single day. And we should demand anyone else in our lives to do the same.
our big own.
Shannon (32:15.602)
That's right. Wonderful.
Tamara Zantell (32:18.358)
be gone.
Shun (32:22.054)
Alrighty, on to the next segment.
Shannon (32:22.418)
All right. Well, we've gone a little over. So which segment do we want to do tonight? We don't have to do both.
Shun (32:34.988)
You choose honey you choose is up to you
Shannon (32:36.882)
Well, I'll do the fictional family then. All right. So on to the fictional family that we're filling, forgetting, firing. I'm sorry. Thank you. Like, what are we doing here? What are we doing? Yes.
Shun (32:42.772)
Let's go.
Shun (32:55.51)
Bye.
Shun (32:59.616)
We went over tonight. Brain is out.
Shannon (33:05.244)
So the family we're talking about tonight is from Why Did I Get Married? Sheila and Mike.
Shun (33:12.044)
My joints. Okay, go ahead.
Shannon (33:16.274)
Sheila and Mike. So as we know, he was very, very emotional abusive to her. He always put her down. Sheila, who was played by, of course, Jill Scott. Let me go back. And then Mike by Richard T. Jones. So Mike was always putting his wife down because she was a bigger size woman, heavy, yes.
And he wasn't nice to her at all and cracked jokes on her in front of people and all these things. Well, one of her friends said the most memorable scene said, hey, maybe if you try to get sexy or whatever and put on some lingerie or whatever. So she did. If you all remember that scene where she put on the lingerie and he bust out laughing. he's just laughing at her and saying she looks like a tent.
Shun (34:06.156)
you
Shannon (34:13.49)
Like she put on a tent looks like you're wearing a tent and she said well, I Trina said you might like it He's like Trina crazy Trina tripping ain't no way I like this or whatever and telling her to turn the lights off cuz she was starting to glow, know and all these things and The part of that scene, you know, I'm sure that gets a lot of women is that she just sat there and face dropped and
you know, in near tears or did cry, but she didn't say anything back. She didn't go off, cuss him out, do anything, you know, and that was the pattern of their marriage where he could talk to her any kind of way, do anything. She's trying to figure out how she can keep him. And she told him, even sitting there, I love you. And I'm trying to figure out how to make it work. And he was like, well, this ain't it. This ain't how you do it. And just, you know, laughing away and
you know, making his crass remarks. And that's what happens, I know, in so many marriages and in the real world. But eventually, of course, it all turned around for her. But I'm basing tonight's segment on just that scene right there where Sheila could not say anything and Mike's laughing.
Telling her to turn the lights off because she's about she's going in her tent or whatever so I am choosing to Forget She'll in Mike in this instance because I feel like women should have the power Even though this is a fictional family Take back our power and when a man is speaking to you that way
You know, you just don't do it. You don't go for it without being crazy. What do y'all think?
Shannon (36:19.858)
time.
Shun (36:23.35)
Tamara, I think you should go first, actually. You're the guest.
Tamara Zantell (36:26.222)
Okay, I wasn't sure if I could. So we're saying we are forgetting the scenario because she did not stand up for herself. That's what you're saying, Shannon?
Shannon (36:29.466)
Yes, please.
Shun (36:29.597)
Yeah, got it.
Shannon (36:38.31)
Yeah, yeah.
Shun (36:38.412)
That's what Shannon said, but you can either feel it or forget it or you can fire it as well. So what is your take on that?
Tamara Zantell (36:45.422)
I am, I'm feeling it. While I, know, I, I feel like there are a lot of women in a position where they're not necessarily happy with themselves. They're lacking maybe the self-confidence, the self-awareness, and they're not yet standing in their power. Either because there has been a pattern or some type of consistent
know, negativity or beat down or trauma in their life where they don't really see themselves as the queens they are. So therefore they just stop, pause and absorb because that's what they think in that moment that they deserve. They feel unworthy. So I'm feeling it because I feel for women like her in that scenario that has ever sat in a place where you know, you have an inkling that it's wrong because you know you want more and you deserve more and your heart.
Shun (37:29.388)
Mm-hmm.
Tamara Zantell (37:42.83)
is looking forward to something better, greater, right? And more in alignment with what you said specifically in this type of relationship where you're hoping this person that you said I do to would be your protector, your safe place. But that's not what happens. And you call back on the societal pressures on what your mama told you and what your grandma did and what other went, you know, and what you think in that moment you deserve. So your mindset is off.
Shannon (38:01.618)
Right.
Tamara Zantell (38:12.236)
your vision or version of what you deserve is skewed. So in that moment, I can almost say it's not her fault because not until you see the light or you're in a space where you are encouraged, empowered and you see transformation happening in other women's lives and people are speaking life into you, or you just get so sick and tired that you're like, I'm done with this. I don't know what the right way forward is, but I know this ain't it, right?
Shun (38:20.0)
That's right.
Shannon (38:20.223)
yeah, yeah.
Shannon (38:35.44)
Ha ha ha.
Right, right, right.
Tamara Zantell (38:39.34)
Some type of something has to happen in order for that woman to stand up for herself and decide, make a choice, two powerful words, to stand in their power and demand something different.
Shannon (38:54.582)
Okay, yeah, and I guess I should have I'm sorry I'm Tamara I guess I should have explained a little bit more about the field fire and forget The the field is usually for you giving them a high five meaning you loving You're loving it, but but I get I get her explanation. Yeah. yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes
Shun (38:54.72)
Right. Well, I respect the way. Go ahead, Shannon.
Tamara Zantell (39:11.212)
Shun (39:14.592)
But but not but I think but I think she was yeah, I was about to say I think she was on course she feel it because she did not walk away from him because she could you know, she she could have but she feel her because there's so many women that are stuck in that place think that I kind of deserve this or I don't know anything different so that's why she's feeling it now for me I agree with both of you. I I'm going to just forget them. I don't want to fire them and I don't want to fill them and I'll
Shannon (39:33.894)
Yeah.
Shun (39:43.404)
Maybe bring you two together. I would I don't want to fire him because she in her self-esteem and in her place Couldn't understand that she deserved better I don't want to fill them because I don't want women to understand or to think we that is ever okay So let's just forget him and hope in the next they do a movie like that She get up and bust him on the head with the wine bottle sooner. Okay, No, no, let's go there
Shannon (40:03.058)
you
Tamara Zantell (40:06.006)
No, no, no.
Shun (40:10.738)
So that's all I want to try to go first so we can end with a bang but go ahead shanan another bang besides the bottle But all right shannon, go ahead and take us out, honey
Shannon (40:17.137)
Lord, thank you so much. We needed that. Well, tomorrow you've got to come back. Like we said, there will be a part two of this in season five. I can't believe it will be season five. Actually, you know, that's next year, but still, we're so blessed to do this and be heard around the globe.
And we thank all of our listeners for joining us and being faithful and giving us feedback. And we welcome you back next week. And until then, have a good one.
Shun (41:00.256)
We love you all. Bye.