Welcome to "Visionary Voices" the podcast where we dive into the minds of business owners, founders, executives, and everyone in between.
Each episode brings you face-to-face with the leading lights of industry and innovation.
Join us as we uncover the stories behind the success and the lessons learned along the way.
Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or just starting your business journey, these are the conversations you need to hear - packed with visionary voices and insights.
Let's begin.
You left some of my companies in there.
Are we started?
Oh yeah, I mean we can cut the beginning
bit out, it's fine.
Yeah, well, sorry, can you say that again?
About the background?
background, in the beginning, you put some
stuff in here.
You left some of my experience in here and
left some of it out, but that's okay.
I should have gotten back to you before
that.
Yeah, I mean, really just for my reference
really, just so I can refresh myself on
our conversation from before.
Yeah.
going to recite that in the beginning of
this call.
Oh no, what I'll do is that the
introduction I do after off this call will
be based on what we spoke about basically.
So I can talk about the fact that we spoke
about X, Y, Z and I can just put that into
the introduction itself.
Great.
Okay, brilliant.
So welcome to the podcast now, can you
give us a top -level overview of your
journey so far what it is that you do?
And we can go from there
Yeah, thanks Akil, thanks for having me.
My name is Ward Jevronik.
I'm president and owner of Agile Staffing
Groups.
Agile Staffing Groups originated by a
journey into the IT business.
And the reason I got started into the IT
business is I've been an entrepreneur at
heart, Akil.
I've started to go off on everything from
selling sunglasses on the beach.
to door -to -door sales.
So I've always tried to win over new sales
opportunities and win over new clients.
And then I ran into a friend of mine who
inspired me to go into IT sales.
And that was in 2003 at Granite
Telecommunications.
And at this time, I was paralyzed.
I got in a car accident.
Yeah.
I broke my back and I paralyzed my leg and
it made it really hard for me to sit and
to become sedentary because my body and
bones would hurt.
So I tried working for this company for a
while and I found out that it just wasn't
going to work because my body wasn't
allowing it to.
I had some things due to my paralysis that
didn't allow me to work there.
So I went out and started doing business
again on my own and I
started selling IT services, which
included IBM and SAP, and we were
automating some of the tools that they had
inside of their ERP systems, or the IBM
had some data tools and SAP had some ERP
tools.
After that, I realized staffing, Akhil,
was the place I wanted to be.
I loved people.
I loved finding homes for people where
they wanted to be, and I enjoyed learning
what
they liked about their work and what
inspired them to drive at their work.
So that all started there.
And then I went into working with a IT
service desk or a renowned chicken
sandwich maker here in Georgia.
And I helped grow a team from 50 people
back down to 25 people, because about 25,
half the people on the team didn't want to
be there.
They really were just spinning in the
seats.
They didn't care.
They were just making a paycheck.
And we realized that and we helped them
move on to something different.
And we grew the team from 25 back to 125.
And that wasn't me, Akil.
That was actually just getting the right
people on the bus.
So it was all about finding the people
that wanted to do this job and what
motivated them to do this job.
And they wanted to grow the business out.
I didn't do anything.
I just learned from these people.
I learned what motivated them and gave
them an opportunity to do what they wanted
to do.
So over the years, I've just learned how
important it was people that made business
grow.
And as we're growing, this is weird, Akil,
because now we're in a world of IT where
there's lots of businesses out there and
just says, throw an app on it.
An app will solve all business process.
Yeah.
I think people are getting kind of not
left behind, but somewhat forgotten how
important it is to have the right people
on the team.
So you'll have a business team that's
throwing an app on so much stuff, acting
as a manager in a transactional way and
forgetting the importance of the
relationship of the people that work with
them.
And what happens there is now we're having
people coming and going all the time.
not staying in the same company, not
connected to their manager, and their
interest is to find a better position
where they can connect.
And so money's one thing, but the
relationship's much more important.
So that's the journey, how I started
today, people over profit, and the
interest I have in the staffing business.
yeah, that's amazing.
That's quite a journey, you know, from, as
you said, having an accident and being
paralysed to then moving to different
companies, different industries.
That's really cool.
I mean, I guess taking you back then to
where you transition from the tech sales
to then the staffing.
What was that transition like for you?
Because that's, you know, quite a
different role, isn't it?
Where you're going from just sales to then
actually, you know, working with people
and placing people in and changing
people's lives in that way.
How was that transition for you and what
did that feel like?
So the transition was just learning how
much I loved people, loved working with
them and wanting to be more in terms of
helping them find jobs.
There was more satisfaction for me to have
somebody find a job that they really loved
and put them in a position that they can
grow than putting a software in place or
an application in place to do something,
to build a process out that helped in the
process there.
So once I learned how important it was to
put the people in the right place,
I just slowly let go of that and grew more
into helping clients find the right
people.
So you asked me, how did the transition
go?
It just grew because my motivation was a
love for people.
No, amazing.
And that's really refreshing to hear as
well, because right now all we hear in the
news and businesses is AI automation, you
know, removing people from businesses and
how we can automate things and all these
different things like that.
But the approach that you're taking is,
well, we still need to think of these
people, right?
And these people can have a lot of value
to these businesses.
So, yeah, as I said, it's really
refreshing to hear that on your side.
I guess with that, I mean, I guess it's
shifting it a little bit, but just on that
topic of AI and automation.
How are you coupling that with your
current business model, with people over
profit, and then coupling that with
automation and everything?
How does that work together?
What does that look like?
Right.
So with automation and people over profit
in my business model, it's trying to
understand businesses and where their pain
is.
Because we all have an area where we can
grow.
And if we have good, if we have, if we
have leaders inside a business that
understand where their pain is, then it's
easy for me to help them.
But if I, if there's leaders in business
that don't believe they have any pain and
they're doing it perfect, I'm not a good
fit.
yeah.
And then especially if I have leaders in
business that have the mentality of we,
not me, then I can really help.
Because I'm not going to be good when
somebody comes in there and says, help me
do this or me do that or me do that.
I want somebody that wants to grow the we,
the team, that wants to put an importance
on not only them and that business, that
animal, that business, that business is
separate from people.
It's a...
Mm -hmm.
do things that might have to cut and hurt
people at some times and then and which is
important.
We have to know that that's important
because that's how business grows.
But we also need to realize there's people
inside there that also can make the
business grow in this direction or to the
opposite direction.
And if we put the right people on the
team, then we can get things growing in
the direction we want them to.
You asked me, how do I figure that out?
It's through different methodologies.
understanding clients and what they want,
and then formulate a methodology on what
would best fit in their growth.
There's all kinds of methodologies you
know out there.
There's a Kaizen where you have asked
questions and get everybody interested in
leading towards the same goal.
There's agile methodologies where we fail
fast and learn from it, move quickly.
We have waterfall methodology, we have
mixture and hybrid methodologies, and
there's another one called IT service
management methodology.
Just understanding the client first.
I believe in a methodology that will work
for them.
And then I help grow people in that
direction with them.
Yeah, no, amazing.
And I guess that goes to show when you
spoke about before, where you came to that
business and you cut it back down to 25
people, then you reorganized it and then
grew it exponentially.
And I'm assuming, you know, you're putting
people in the right places there.
I guess, how did you go about that where,
you know, the headcount dropped so, so low
and then you absolutely blew up the
business later on by hiring so many people
after that.
What was that like?
Well, it was more just asking questions.
Sitting down doing performance reviews.
Learning from people while trying to
understand what they own inside the
business and the operations that they've
been given.
What do they love about it?
And ask them what motivates them to come
into work every day.
And then listening to them.
What do you want in the future?
What can I give you to help you be
successful here?
What can the team do with you?
Well, what can you do to help the business
processes of the team?
and just learning from their answers and
then navigate, helping navigate them into
the direction they wanna go.
Oftentimes they just wanted to leave
themselves.
By asking them the right question, they
realized, I actually don't wanna be here,
Ward.
Yeah.
And then we found out that and then we,
the same way we hire people is the same
way we do those performance reviews.
And we got the right people on the team
and it grew.
Hmm, yeah.
And then eventually that company realized
that we have a lot too many people on the
staff and we need to hire these people
directly.
And that was my time to leave.
That's when it was time for me to go
somewhere else.
But they're really good at what they did.
And to be honest, I learned a lot from
them.
They taught me how to do things in a way
that people are important to them.
So I was supported by the right leadership
at the top that gave me the platform to
build this model out.
amazing.
I guess with this model and when you work
with businesses, have there been cases
where you've worked with a business and it
was just terrible?
Because you see it sometimes now,
especially in the job market today, a lot
of candidates are talking about how bad
the interview process was and how no one
actually got back to them after they
applied and all these different things.
And there's a big disconnect between
building these relationships up and these
automations that are running in the
background and people get forgotten.
So, I mean, what was your experience
there?
Have you worked with any of those types of
clients?
Yes, I have.
And when the client doesn't get back to
us, it makes it really hard for us to get
back to the candidates.
But the candidates are going to
continuously ask questions, especially the
ones because we've said we've planted a
seed and we planted a seed of hunger to
want to work at that company.
So now they're going to constantly come
back to us.
So what we do is then we just we set that
we've set that expectation in the
beginning with clients.
And that expectation simply is, let's do a
call at X once a week to talk about the
candidates, or something where I can get
that feedback.
And if I can get that feedback, then I can
apply it back to the candidates.
Not every candidate's gonna be a fit.
But some of the candidates have different
qualities than others.
And sometimes I can provide you with three
candidates that are all different, and
you're gonna have to make the final
choice.
I can give you a reason why I think
they're all good for your position, but...
Ultimately, how you relate to that person
and you're going to want to communicate
with that person and there's a synergy
between your communication, that's the
most important part.
So you ask me, how do I get back to these
candidates?
We just, we get back to them when they ask
us questions and we also get back to them
weekly, letting them know where the
process is.
This is where we are right now and this is
what's happening.
Yeah, I feel like the biggest takeaway I'm
learning from this is how important
communication is.
Of course, with the candidates, with the
clients, asking the right questions, all
those things are so important.
And it's something I feel like is
definitely being lost today with certain
recruitment agencies or with certain other
businesses and things like that.
They don't they don't talk enough.
They don't have these conversations They
don't really understand what it is that
they need And the people that they need to
bring in so they bring in the wrong people
when you make those bad hires Of course,
that's a costly very costly endeavor for
for a lot of businesses, but you see it
time and time again where People do make
those bad hires, which is you know, I
guess part of the game and you learn a lot
from it but yeah, but very very
interesting I guess with that then in
terms of the
the personal development that you've had
over the last few years?
Because of course, as you mentioned, you
know, from Paralyzer in one industry to
another industry and growing these
businesses, what has that been like for
yourself and how has that mindset kind of
evolved over that period of time for
yourself?
Yeah, so I'm an entrepreneur at heart.
My blood pumps with entrepreneurial
decisions.
And oftentimes I name my business Agile
because I fail a lot, but I grow from
those failures and I pick them up and move
quickly, fast to the next opportunity.
The business that we've grown is about how
I put together a staffing company
different.
by learning these failures that I've had
over time.
And what I've done now is I've learned to
work with other entrepreneurs, smaller
staffing firms that are a one man show
that are really good in X, but I'm good in
Y and together we work together well.
So I've learned how to put two businesses
together and connect the people that I
like working with, with me, and connect
people that I'm learning out from the
field with companies that I've learned
that need these type of people.
So I've just learned that, like you
mentioned, how communication is important,
asking the right questions and
understanding people is important, and
then putting them in the place that I know
is going to be a good fit for them.
no amazing yes, I go
No, I was just going to kind of help you
understand my business model.
My business model is different from other
staffing models.
Mine is where I have a lot of firms that I
work with, which have recruiters working
under them, which gives me attention to
about 100 recruiting people.
And then that gives us a large database,
huge database of people that we work with.
But each individual staffing firm, I call
them because they're
their friends of mine that I've built
relationship with over the years have a
strength and it's usually a technology
that they work with or a certain
methodology that they're good at or a
project manager, whatever the function or
the technology is, I go to them and I say,
this is what we're looking for and we're
able to find the people quickly because
they're already sitting there with them.
And then we help the client meet these
people.
So we do the introduction and we staff
them.
Okay, amazing.
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
I guess with that, part of, of course,
within a business when you're hiring
people is how you retain them.
So have you found any strategies that
really help with retention?
Because that is also another big thing, is
you might get some people in and if
they're not the right fit, they're not
gonna stay.
And if you don't create the good culture
that you need in the business, then
they're not gonna stay as well, which
again, is a big cost to the business.
So I mean, what do you do there?
What strategies do you implement there to
get people to stay?
Mm.
lots of performance reviews.
You don't even have to call them a
performance review.
It's really just employee engagement.
It's about getting with your employees and
helping understand what they enjoy and
what's motivating them to stay and keep
helping them see that, that it's here.
We appreciate your input.
Your input's meaningful to us.
And then helping...
helping grow them when there's an
opportunity to grow them.
I also like doing events outside of the
office.
Some people like doing happy hours.
What I've really found to be most
effective are opportunities where we do,
we call them giving events.
And we may go paint a gym for a school
that an underprivileged school or we may
go give away food to, to people that are
hungry on the streets and these small
little events.
We've cutting a lot of self out and we're
giving to others.
And I've learned through those type of
events, we've learned a lot about one
another and we grow stronger.
And then all of a sudden we're building a
comradery and the team and the strength of
the team gets better.
And when each other rely on the team, just
like a football team, you get better at
winning.
So I find it all in the employee
engagement and how we build out employee
engagement with the people that we work
with.
Yeah, I think that's a very unique take on
it because a lot of the companies I worked
in and know of, they do those employee
engagement activities, as you said, like
happy hour going out, getting a drink and
all these different things.
But as you mentioned, if you're doing
something where you're helping other
people and you're giving back and you
create that brotherhood, let's say, of
people, that is very, very important and
that will make them stay for the long
haul, right?
Agreed, and I've seen it firsthand.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Interesting.
I guess, I guess with that, you know, I
mean, I guess it's harder to put stats in
it.
But did you know, if you do all these
things, you know, how much can you
increase that, that tenure?
Yes, you know, like how much can you
increase that retention of the of the
employees?
Sure, I'll give you some stats.
So out of the requirements that I get, we
placed probably 55 % of the time.
55 % of the time.
And out of that 55 % of the time, if the
client is not re -orging or changing for
some reason because of profit loss or
whatever, over 95 % of the time the people
stay.
And the reason that people are staying is
because they're being engaged.
And it's not me engaging them.
It's the clients managers engaging them
because the client managers are realizing
after the interview and process how
amazing it was to be engaged with these
people that they're meeting with.
Because I've helped them with their
questions.
I've helped them understand why these
people want to be there.
And when these managers are actually
listening to the people that are
interviewing.
tell them why they want to be there, that
manager wants to help.
There's something inside us, Akhil, that
we want to help others, but most of the
time it's we don't know what it is to help
the other.
So when the other person is clear in the
way they tell them in their communication
about what they want from the company and
how they can help the company, the manager
has two things now.
The manager can hold that person
accountable to what they said they would
do in their delivery.
And B, the manager knows exactly what they
need, what they can do to motivate and
encourage and help that person get to
where they said they were gonna be.
So with that type of relationship, there
is no change.
They're constantly moving in the direction
of success and moving towards helping the
company grow.
Yeah, no, amazing.
Yeah, no, 100%.
I guess with your methodology, what's your
plans to, I guess, for the orbit and how
you're gonna reach out to more clients and
get more clients on this wave of people
over profit?
Yeah, so I have a sales team that reaches
out and we're particular about the clients
that we work with.
Again, I'm looking for maybe the
entrepreneurial minded guy or girl that
wants to build teams.
When I hear in their voice talk about, I
want a team, we together are gonna build
something.
Those are the type of people I wanna work
with because I know that in that
environment, we can grow, we can all
flourish together.
If I'm hearing,
from these clients that I'm working with
that I need to build, I need margin over
people or profit over people.
I need to increase margins right now.
What I need to do is decrease my team and
add an app for that.
I can't do that anymore.
I might be able to go in there and say,
hey, if we cut all these shelf
applications, you can save some money.
But ultimately my goal would be to bring
more people on the team.
So my goal is to find the clients that
want to grow teams and want to grow a
business around the people that they're
working with, incentivizing the people,
engaging the people, and that's their
interest.
So yes, the outreach is more along the
lines of who is growing teams and who
wants to grow a team full of people that
want to be together.
So we're doing a lot of sales in that
aspect right now.
And it's gonna be an IT.
It's going to be in financial professions
and any kind of business development
professions.
These were the where the teams are
important.
The camaraderie makes a big difference or
they're all working together.
Yeah, yeah, no for sure.
I know, very interesting.
I guess with that, as you're growing and
everything, of course, as you know,
there's been a lot of shifts in just the
industries, just in general, the last two
to five years.
So how do you see things like, as we
mentioned earlier and touched on, things
like AI and these other things coming into
play, how do you see that maybe changing
company culture and all these different
things?
Yeah, I now see clients interviewing with
AI.
I see AI reviewing resumes in the
beginning and determining if the right
keywords are in the resume before they
even do interview.
To combat that, I'm seeing candidates
white out words.
in the resume and duplicate the same word
in white hundreds of times to combat the
AI.
I'm seeing a lot of, we'll just call it, I
don't know how you want to call it, but
corrupt activities going on, trying to
match each other up because the candidates
are trying to beat the AI so they can just
get the interview.
and the AI is trying to review the resume
in terms of who has the strongest
correlation in terms of the resume.
So I see that, that's one thing.
I also have seen candidates try to take
interviews with chat GBT, answering
questions for them when they don't have an
answer.
I've seen that.
And I've seen clients asking questions.
looking for chat GBT answers.
So I've seen that people are not so much
focused on trying to match up their
relationship with the candidate that
they're interviewing, but looking to
disqualify from a manager perspective.
And it's just made it easier for them to
do it because they're using technology to
do it.
And from a candidate side, I'm seeing them
try to use technology to, we'll say, cheat
the system to get in front of the manager.
Hmm, no interesting.
Yeah
you asked me how I see it changing, I see
that relationship as being well.
Interesting.
It'll be interesting to see how that
affects these companies in the next five
years, 10 years, because short term, yeah,
it might be a bit more efficient to run
the business in that way, but long term,
you're not going to be building that
business which is going to stand the test
of time because you need people in the
business, right?
You need people to grow, you need people
to innovate and do all these different
things.
So it'll be very interesting to see how
these businesses survive for the next five
to 10 years, really.
I agree.
I believe that if businesses are going to
put a lot of weight on the success of AI
implementation into interviewing and the
HR management of people, it can get really
messy.
It's going to hit a head.
Akhil, in the very beginning when I
started this venture and I started Agile
Company, I started with a company called
Agile Partnering.
We tried to automate the process of
putting people in place by doing...
personality reviews, that's what my
partner wanted to do.
But I realized that that's not gonna work.
It's not gonna work, because even if I do
a personality review, that's fine, but I
still need to match that person with the
client.
And not just on a personality review, but
I wanna know about their motivation and
things.
So I tried this, I tried this 10 years ago
and realized it wasn't gonna work.
So I failed.
at doing this and I don't see how this can
be successful.
I mean they're trying to make, you know,
as you know, human personality objective,
right?
But it's not objective.
You need to speak with someone to really
understand them as a person and see if
there's a connection there, if they can
connect to the company and all these
different things.
I guess what recommendations do you have
for, I guess, let's say a startup that's
just starting to grow their company.
What key things should they have in place
when, you know, they're in that initial
stages of growing that first team?
Well, they're probably really good at
doing something.
They're probably really good either
developing software or selling whatever it
is.
I would recommend that they just break out
some time, whatever time that is, hour a
day, a week, and put together a hiring
plan.
Don't just try to say, oh, we need to hire
some people and not put thought into it.
That's the first thing.
Build the foundation.
I've seen a lot of companies just say, I
need somebody and they'll throw me a
requirement that makes sense.
And then I start interviewing candidates
based on that requirement or my team does.
And when I started presenting these
candidates, it's not even the right
requirement.
It's not even really what they're looking
for when I'm hearing the interview.
So the foundation is not set, especially
in smaller companies.
And after that, I would think they should
put together an interview plan.
How are we gonna interview these
candidates?
And then a motivation, what are we gonna
do when we get these people on board?
An employee engagement, a handbook, just a
complete package.
And this is not a hard thing to do.
I know it sounds like it's encompassing
and there's a lot to it, but if a manager,
an entrepreneur sits down for two days and
thinks about this, he could easily have
this done.
Yeah.
a huge difference in terms of the people
that he hires and the longevity they stay
with.
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
Yeah, yeah, and as you mentioned, identify
exactly what it is that you need, you
know, so you're not making those wrong
hires, because that's not what you want.
I guess shifting forward to maybe slightly
bigger businesses then, you know, the
hiring managers within there, how can they
bring in this change into their hiring
process?
What strategies can they maybe look into
to start looking at people over profit?
Yeah, so it's the employee engagement is
what I'm noticing.
And the reason I say that is because when
I'm pulling candidates out of big business
and I'm doing an exit review with them,
asking them why they want to leave and
what is it that you missed from this
company and you're looking at a new one,
the common theme is my impact, how I was
valued.
It wasn't that I wasn't making enough
money.
Sometimes it's I want to work remote.
But the majority of the time is my impact,
how I can make a difference in an
organization, what the things that I say
are valued.
It's important to that company.
And I value what the company's doing.
Hmm.
So when you're interviewing and doing
performance reviews, understanding what
the candidate or what your employee values
and work with that employee to have him
find that in the job, there's an
opportunity for it.
Even the level one help desk guy.
Remember I was doing this, the level one
help desk guy.
And I'm just using IT as an example here,
but even with that individual, there's a
motivation.
And there's an impact that he can have.
And there's a way that he can build out
the knowledge base and something where he
can be recognized of what he or she can be
recognized, what they've done and how
they're doing a good job here.
There's employee engagement opportunities
where you're taking the team out and
you're doing giving opportunities
together.
And that's building a really big impactful
moment for some people.
Some people have never been on a project
where they've actually given away.
Yeah.
So these small events make big lasting
impacts to keep the right people on the
bus.
Interesting.
Yeah, amazing.
I love that.
I love that.
I think people can find a lot of value in
this, whether you're a startup or you're a
bigger business, there's so much value in
this concept of people over profit and
these different things you can do to
implement it.
I guess one thing I did want to ask, and
this is a bit more of a, I guess a thought
-provoking question really is, if you
could go back to your 18 -year -old self
and you can only take three things with
you, whether it's mindset, philosophy,
business, some type of knowledge there,
but not the price of Bitcoin or anything,
what would it be and why would it be those
things?
Akhil, I broke my back and I paralyzed my
leg when I was 21 years old.
So my answer, it may be a little bit
different from your business answer, but
it would just, I would slow down.
I would slow down and I would enjoy the
moments in front of me.
I would stop thinking about the things
ahead of me.
and the things that I messed up behind me,
and it would take more time to enjoy the
moment in front of me and the people I get
to engage with.
Because there's a lot to be learned in the
people in front of me.
There's a lot of joy to be had with the
person I'm talking to.
And there's a lot that we together can
build for the future.
But I missed that a ton when I was a kid.
It was always the next thing.
always the next and looking at the
mistakes that I made and grew from those
mistakes but I never just sat for a moment
to enjoy what I was doing.
Amazing, yeah.
everybody does that, there's a different
appreciation that we'll have for one
another, for the companies that we work
for, and for what motivates us.
Yeah, yeah, no, no, definitely.
And what you said about slowing down.
So people around my age, early 20s and 18
plus, that is what we're like right now
where it is, OK, what is the next thing?
What is the next thing?
And it's very difficult to remain
president.
It's something I've been trying to work on
in the last few months because the last
few years have been a bit of a blur.
Just what's the next thing?
What's the next thing?
So I think that's a really great piece of
advice for some of my friends and people
in my groups that they could take a lot of
value from 100 percent.
Okay, amazing.
Well, I mean, I think it's been a really
great podcast.
I mean, I've learned so much from you.
It's been really, really good.
I think everyone can take some value from
this, whether you're looking to grow that
team, as we mentioned before, whether
you're already managing a team and things
you could do to retain people and find
better people maybe as well.
So yeah, so thank you for coming on board
and it's been a pleasure talking to you.
Yes, I've enjoyed it.
Amazing.
Thank you very much.