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Interesting people, insightful points of view and incredible stories on what’s popping and not popping in marketing, tech, and culture you can use to win immediately. Brands, Beats and Bytes boldly stands at the intersection of brand, tech and culture. DC and Larry are fascinated with stories and people behind some of the best marketing in the business. No matter how dope your product, if your marketing sucks your company may suck too. #dontsuck
DC: Brand nerds was happenin'? How y'all been? It's good to be back at you with another podcast. Brands, Beats, and Bytes. Now I have to make an acknowledgement to you Brand Nerds. We don't have enough women on our podcast and we certainly do not have enough women of color, on our podcast. So we doing something about that today.
We got a boss sister in the building today, and let me tell you why I'm excited about talking, uh, with the sister today. First she's a seasoned marketing vet. Second, she has global experience. Third, she's an entrepreneur. And fourth, she's an HBCU grad, two times over like myself. Now I know Larry, you gonna get into that in a little minute.
So for all of those reasons, I'm excited. And also this happens to be a sister that I have worked with. We and our company, Brand Positioning Doctors have worked with she and her company as we share a client, uh, uh, together. So for all of these reasons, LT, I can't wait to get into this thing with who we have in the building today.
So can you please bless the Brand Nerds with a little information about who we have with us today?
LT: Oh yes, DC, We have Bianca Blake in the house today. Welcome, Bianca.
Bianca Blake: Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.
LT: Oh, like DC said, he set it up. So good. We we're so excited to have you, and, and, uh, as DC alluded to another HBCU grad in the house today, Bianca attended Florida A&M University, better known as FAMU which is near and dear to our super producer, Jeff. Always our one son. Yeah, that's right. One son, Justin holds a degree from FAMU, and next son Jamie is a rising senior. So Bianca holds two FAMU degrees undergrad in Business Administration and MBA in Marketing. So Bianca enters the business world for a J&J subsidiary Johnson, that's Johnson and Johnson. And after a couple of years, moves over to GlaxoSmithKline and is there for six years. First as an Associate Brand Manager and works her way up the ranks to a multitude of roles and eventually where she was Group Product Manager. She works in a variety of brands, including Aqua Fresh and Nicorette and after being stationed in the US, halfway through her stint with the company, she moves to Johannesburg, South Africa, where she also works on a variety of brands. In her last role in South Africa as Group Product Manager, she's responsible for the marketing act activity on the GSK beverage portfolio, which is (Lucozade, Horlicks, and Ribena), I believe, in the 10 Southern African countries, including South Africa, Angola, Botswana, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and more. So in 2013, Bianca moves back stateside to be the Director of Global Marketing for Merck's Foot Health Franchise business.
After this successful stint, Bianca begins her entrepreneurial journey, as DC alluded to, where she starts a consulting business and for a variety of clients, including the Metro North Railroad, where I have personally spent many hours, and Jeff and I were recently on it during a trip to New York) and Ovamba where Bianca serves for three years as their Director of Marketing, as she's consulting.
From Ovamba website, here's the company's mission, which I thought was really great to share. Quote, "Creating sustainable wealth for Africans is at the heart of what drives Ovamba to find new, effective ways to bring digital transformation to the, to the more than 450 million emerging market SMBs and the banks which serve them."
Which is super cool. And Bianca, obviously with having lived them a continent for, uh, for many years, I, I imagine that was near and dear to your heart, right?
Bianca Blake: Absolutely.
LT: Yeah. So then in 2019, Bianca takes another big entrepreneurial leap where she co-founders klickrr.com, and that's spelled by the way, k l i c k r r .com, a digital communications agency that has evolved from a boutique consultancy to now include robust, easy to use, SMS software.
The company has served over 100 customers across the globe and sent more than 5 million SMS messages since inception. Klickrrerr's clients range from government agencies to nonprofits and small businesses. And in closing here in the intro, we personally love Bianca's Path from Fortune 100 brand management to successfully co-founding and running a startup, you're gonna enjoy this one Brand Nerds!
Welcome to Brands, Beats, and Bytes, Bianca Blake.
Bianca Blake: Thank you so much, Larry. I literally feel like I need to listen to that every morning when I get started and going work. It's so empowering and, and uplifting to hear all of that. You tend to forget all of the things that you've done and just be focused on the next thing. So thank you for edifying my, my background and some of those accomplishments. Wow.
LT: I like to say, you did it, I'm just, you know, just basically being the announcer for it.
Bianca Blake: I love it.
DC: Listen, Bianca, Larry is gifted at doing this. In fact, in our business, he is the best among us at the relationships part. So when he goes through the experience, which is your experience, the way he puts it all together and the way he shares it with the Brand Nerds, it just does something to the guests that we have on the, uh, on the podcast.
So, Larry, salute you. And Bianca, as Larry has said, it's all you.
LT: Right.
DC: All you.
Bianca Blake: What a journey.
DC: All right, Bianca, we have a section we call Get Comfy. So we gonna move into that now. I stated earlier, you are a sister. You are marketing, uh, veteran you're an entrepreneur. You've been at a Fortune 100, uh, company doing marketing as Larry has gone through with your experience, uh, your entrepreneurial, uh, pursuits have you, um, in the tech space and beyond. There are Brand Nerds out there who are women and women of color, and they, some of them are in senior marketing positions inside of corporations globally, but not that many. Not that, not that many, and even fewer, Bianca, are entrepreneurs. I'm dealing specifically with women now, women of color and black women.
So what I'd like you to do is to share a bit about some challenges that you have faced that are specific to you and people that look like you and what you've done to overcome some of those challenges.
Bianca Blake: That's a good question. So I think the, the first challenge is internal, right? It's a little bit of that imposter syndrome, which I think all entrepreneurs have to some degree.
But when you don't, when you're in an industry or in a, in an organization, any sort of, of, of place where you don't see yourself as the norm, that imposter syndrome can kick up, um, and be, you know, it feels a little bit more like a reality. Like, I actually don't belong here cuz there's nobody else here like me.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Blake: And so to push through that, you, you have to, to first you, you need to create a village, right? So in anything that you're doing, finding your tribe is essential. And then you realize that even though there's not that many people like you, there are people like you and you can change your own narrative by creating, um, an environment that makes it seem like there are plenty of people like you.
DC: Mm.
Bianca Blake: So, um, I've done that by, uh, I have a, a, a sort of a, a, we call ourselves bricks. There's a group of, of my, um, entrepreneurial colleagues. We used to work together. We started our careers together. Um, and we quickly realized that, you know, we didn't, we didn't quite belong where we were, and we went and found different jobs and our careers morphed and changed. And now all four of us have since left corporate. We all run our own businesses. All of us are women of color. We all, three out of the four of us went to FAM the fourth one went to Xavier, so all HBCU graduates. So we have a lot of things in common. And one of those things that we have in common is that we, for the most part, don't fit in the box or, or what the expectation might be of an entrepreneur, of a, of a leadership position, you know, person in, in some of these large companies.
And we found community with one another. And we are able to kind of, Um, one of us is named Sonya, Bricks is like the first initial of our name. It's also symbolic of building together. Um, one of us named is Sonya, and she, um, had an office at the company where we were working and I, I still, I still will say these days, so need to meet in Sonya's office.
That means something crazy happen and we need a safe space to talk about it. Sonya's office for the safe space. Someone, someone, some person in leadership just looked at me and had a whole conversation with me thinking I was somebody else. We got like text message. We gotta meet in Sonya's office right now.
We gotta talk like I need, I need a way to get this outer us. I'm gonna hold onto it. It's gonna affect my work. Mm-hmm. And we, we created that safe space for one another. Mm-hmm. So that, that is, I think that's probably the, the largest challenge because once you feel like you belong, And once you feel like the, the scarcity, um, is, is not the reality.
The abundance is there. There's enough for all of us. We don't need to be crabs and a barrel pulling one another down. We can, we can be a foundation and lifting one another cup. Right? There's enough food at the table for all of us to eat.
LT: Yep.
Bianca Blake: If we just wanna hand, you know, help each other and, and, and be helping hands.
So I, I do think that's the, the, the biggest issue, especially for, for us, I will say another issue, more logistical issue that has come up with COVID is that generally speaking, women tend to be the, uh, the, the, the ones that take on more of the domestic um, Duties. And so one of the things that came out during Covid is that, you know, at whatever your your day job is, you know, it, it becomes even more difficult to be good at that if you're, you know, taking on more than your fair share of the domestic group. Ah, that could also be something that keeps us from becoming part of certain conversations or making it to those, you know, networking mixers or, you know, the things where, where that, where the actual magic happens is not always in the boardroom or during the nine to five or at the meeting, Right.
Sometimes it's the after the meeting, it's the, you know, and we miss some of those things because we are taking on more, more than our, you know, per fair share perhaps of, um, domestic duties. So I would say those.
DC: Great point.
LT: I have a quick, do you mind if I jump in?
DC: No, go ahead brother.
LT: So, uh, Bianca, I love that and can you sort of provide more texture to this group, right? Um, and how you guys sort of, sort of got together, and was it one of these things that you realized afterwards, like, wow, that was, that was really special that it, this organically came together? Or was it more a conscious thing like we've, we, we've gotta really. Uh, get together and help one another.
Bianca Blake: So it was a little bit of both. At first it was we're, we're black women in corporate and we're all around the same age, career, um, stage in our career, right? And we're all dealing with the same issues. So finding each other in a lunch room, you know, like have, it was a little bit organic. Then I think we took a trip together, you know, and then we started to, on the beach talking or whatever, and then we realized, you know, you're in conversations and I'm in these conversations. How can we help each other? And then it kind of became this organic. And then eventually we had, there was a point in time where we said, you know, This is the framework we're gonna put around this.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Blake: We, we need to find new jobs. So you're gonna go and help. We're gonna do this job fair, this resume, and this. And there was a, a, a conscious effort to take what had organically grown and make it something that is a, a framework with, with actual accountability and measurement, et cetera. Now, we have a summit every year where we do business planning, because as an entrepreneur, you're responsible for your own business planning.
So why would we do that for corporations when we're running someone else's business and not do it for our own? So we poke holes in the business planning mm-hmm. and we challenge the financials and we challenge those, um, your, uh, you know, your, uh, your percentages, you know, your margins. And some of those numbers like, Hey, this, this wasn't actually a great client.
Are you gonna do that again? So we've become that sounding board for one another that helps us, um, move forward. We also work together when we have, um, clients and we can use each other's skillset. We, we, we put that into play as well.
LT: Love this.
Bianca Blake: And we still go on trips. So that's another thing.
LT: You're still having fun.
Bianca Blake: That's essential. And also, I will say, one of the funny things about is that every time we go on a trip or have a summit, we have matching jammies. So that is essential , the matching jammies. It just takes it right to the next level. So,
DC: Oh, now, now, who came up with the matching jammies?
Bianca Blake: Oh, of course it's me. I'm the matching jammies person, I buy them for us every time. And one of us is a photographer. She has, um, photography as a, as a skillset. Um, she has all a beautiful photography, so she makes sure to take a photo of us in our matching jammies.
DC: All right, I got one, one more thing, LT, before we we go to the next section. You've touched upon something Bianca, that I don't know has been covered on our podcast, LT. You said the word imposter syndrome. Yeah. I've heard of this word, I've read about this word. I understand, uh, these words, uh, imposter syndrome, but I've not heard them discussed openly.
Bianca Blake: Mm-hmm.
DC: And, um, at what point did you recognize you were pivoting from having the impost imposter syndrome as a result of not seeing people who look like you in your work environment to, you know what? It's okay, I'm gonna rock out like this with my three other sisters and whatever. Like, what, what, what was that moment for you?
Bianca Blake: I'm gonna tell you this.
DC: Ooh, spill the tea now. Spill the tea.
Bianca Blake: When you, when you see people out there doing a whole lot more with a whole lot less...
DC: Mm,
Bianca Blake: ...then you realize that you have what it takes.
LT: Right.
Bianca Blake: I'm gonna just, I'm gonna just say that one more time cuz it happens so many times when you're just like, Huh, this person is going to market like this, or they launched that brand and, and you as a, as a marketer, as a business person, as someone who has a brain in their head, you know, just, or someone that just has eyes, can look and see, wait a minute, this is not right, that's not right, This is not, this needed to be tightened up. This is then, then you ask yourself, you know, I, I, I have much more to offer as far as capability, you know, as far as, uh, credentials, network. Mm-hmm. , whatever you think it is that you're missing, right? Oh, I didn't, I might not have gone to this, this, you know, top school, you know, cuz some people, you know, look at HBCUs. HBCUs just became a thing, by the way, like, you know, I got my degree almost 20 years ago. It's just now becoming the trend. Um, and yeah, you know, when you have an MBA from a school that no one is so-called heard of, you know, you have to realize, you, you see folks out there that are, are just doing so, so much more, with so much less.
What, what I mean by that is that they're going to market in a way that I would've never gone to market. I would've tightened that up over here. So it, it, it reinforces to me that I have more than enough to at least get to market and in some cases, be much more successful than some people that I see.
Attempting to do a lot more, or actually doing a lot more, making the million dollar deals or, you know, building an enterprise with a lot less than what I came to the party with. So I'm like, if they can do it, I know that I deserve to be here.
LT: Love that.
DC: That's phenomenal. Yeah. I'm gonna quickly share this.
I have a, uh, visceral connection to what you're saying. When I came out of business school, which was a Clark Atlanta University, and I was amongst MBAs from the quote unquote top schools in the country mm-hmm. at the Coca-Cola company because they recruited in MBAs at that point to come into brand management. It was like a feeder system, a farm team. I thought that I was, uh, under prepared. I thought, how am I gonna compete with, with folks from Harvard or from Stanford, or. Fuqua, uh, Duke or Darden or Kellogg. I was like, How, how am I gonna compete with them?
LT: The Duke were easy, man. That was easy.
DC: North Carolina. North Carolina, uh, Warton and uh, Bianca. I had an epiphany after attempting to do marketing the way they did marketing. Uh, about a year or so into my job, I probably should have been fired because I just wasn't good. I made the decision that I'm, I'm going to be me. I grew up in Detroit working class family where the neighborhood became impoverished.
Um, I had a love of music. I understood culture, all of those things, and I said, I'm going to be me. That was the first shift for me. Everything changed. The second was being me and being the man in the arena. I'm now e evoking the book. I was like, Well, hold on, wait a minute now. I I, I thought these cats were like the badest on the planet.
And I'm like, No, you're not. And, and that really helped, uh, that, that really helped me. So just love your, love your story. Love your story, Bianca. Can relate to it.
LT: And I'm good. D I'm glad you shared that because, uh, when you really got your sea legs, and I saw it firsthand, uh,
Thank you, Larry. You yet you had something and you realized that at that point, that no one else had. And, and funny story d I've told this, I don't think I've told this on the air. So when my boss with Powerade, when, uh, Bianca, when we would, we were doing things with Dion Sanders and other folks and, um, and so my boss would say to me, As we were about to roll out, did you share it with the guys because he knew DC was a good friend, another good friend Michael Moore, and what he meant was, did you share it with the brothers?
DC: That's right.
LT: That's what he really meant.
DC: That's what he meant.
LT: And so, and so that's, you know, on one hand it's funny, on the other hand it's not. Um, but, but that's because DC had already found his sea legs and there was a respect that was already, uh, that he already imparted in a great way.
Bianca Blake: Absolutely. I think we, in general, no matter who you are, no matter what your demographic or, you know, ethnicity or, or where you came from, whatever, we have to stop seeing the things that make us who we are as liabilities and start seeing them as assets. Especially as entrepreneurs, because nobody's, nobody says, I'm gonna go hire that black woman and then put them in a role and not want them to be a black woman. I mean, used to be the case. Now this used to be the, I I believe that, that, you know, corporate and, and, and professional spaces used to be, I'm gonna hire you, whoever you are, even if you're the stereotypical Harvard grad, and I'm gonna put you into this role, and I want you to do it the way that I want you to do it.
Like, I hired you because you have this and I'm putting you here to, to do what I, the way that I say. Yeah. And it's like, well, if, if I'm bringing this to the table, then you should honor that I'm bringing this and let's figure out a new way, your way. My way is probably, the answer's probably somewhere in the middle.
And I think as a, all of those lovely things that you said about me, Larry, as an HBCU grad, as someone who grew up in Atlanta, as a woman, as a black woman, as a mom, as a wife, as all of these different things, to me it's, it's not a liability that, that I'm a mom. Yes, I have extra, extra loads of laundry to do when I get home. However, I'm gonna bring the mom perspective to the table. And that might be a unique perspective. So it's an asset, it's not a liability. And it starts with me seeing it that way and bringing all of that to the table.
LT: That is so critical, what you just said is you seeing it that way.
DC: Mm-hmm.
LT: and you seeing everything that you have is special and unique, and it's actually an asset. None of it's a liability.
Bianca Blake: Absolutely. And I will, and I will give a little shout out too, um, to the, uh, next generation. Um, I'm not exactly sure how old, uh, the, the, um, the folks that are listening into the call are, but I, I know that sometimes, you know, when you're in your teens or early twenties, you know, sometimes that's exactly when that imposter syndrome kicks in. And, you know, recently DC we were at a meeting together and you, you brought your assistant, um, into the meeting and it was just lovely to see her there. Yeah. Hailey was there. And I, I would imagine, Haley, I don't know exactly how old you are, but of the next generation, and, and that is in and of itself an asset.
You know, like we're, we're the oldies, you know, we, we have experience or credentials and there's a place for us, but we need to learn and, and grow and innovate. With, with the new generation. And so, you know, I would, if anyone is, is listening, I know that, that there's, um, a student campus that would potentially be listening to this, you know, the, the, the folks that have been doing that was one thing I remember that would get us in the Sonya's office very quickly is someone said, oh, I've been doing this for 20 years. And I, and, and, and we're just like, Okay, that's great and that experience has a place in this conversation, but so does a fresh set of eyes, right? So does a brand new, newly mentioned MBA that might be, um, you know, more well versed into some of the more recent marketing channels or ways of doing business than someone who would, who had maybe, you know, received their degree 20, 30 years ago. Not to say that you're ready to be put out to posture and that I'm, but both of those voices have a space in the conversation
LT: Here, here. Love that. I have to say one thing and uh, and then we'll move on. Um, because I, again, we all what you're saying and I'm thinking about us coming up and d saying his background in Bianca, I was a pretty good basketball player growing up and I always, a lot of times I'd be the only white guy on the, on the court. And I always felt I belonged and whether I did or I didn't because I felt like that I did mm-hmm. You know, And so I think that as I look back, I probably never had imposter syndrome because I, I felt like cuz and quite honestly I did prove it. So I felt like I could, if I did the work, that was the key. If I did the work, I could prove myself anywhere. Yeah. And so those things, the assets that you're talking about, they start at an early age and, and I wasn't conscious of the time when I walked into the Coca-Cola company. I felt like I belonged cuz I always felt that way.
Bianca Blake: Yeah, absolutely.
LT: So, next section, D?
DC: Let's do it. Let's do it. So, uh, Bianca, we have, uh, had a first recently in, in, uh, Brands, Beats, and Bytes and, uh, we've had our first, uh, sponsor in partner. We've never had that before.
Bianca Blake: Congratulations
DC: recently had that. And it happens to be someone we know. We respect them. Uh, we, we uh, we believe in the efficacy of the work and the name of the company is Specificity. And so Larry is gonna break down a little bit about, uh, Specificity.
LT: Yes. So, hey, Brand Nerds back here to talk with you about specificity and brand nerds. We know many of you are, may be immersed in digital marketing or may soon just be involved it. Either way, if you want to optimize your digital marketing to maximize results, we have the solution for you. Last November, an interesting thing happened that forever changed the landscape of digital marketing. Apple's iOS update was structured to provide users the opportunity to opt out of ads. With more than 90% of users opting out. The Android devices quickly followed suit with similar numbers on the optout. This situation created complete upheaval for the entire digital marketing infrastructure with engagement rates falling precipitously. Now you know why you're a college student living in your dorm in Tallahassee, and all of a sudden you're being hit with a digital ad for dentures. That's serious money down the drain. Here's where Specificity comes into save the day. Specificity does not track or know user's personal data such as name, social security number, et cetera. Specificity uses device ID numbers similar to a VIN number on a car. So they track what users are doing without knowing their personally identifiable information, working in harmony with a post privacy update. So now with Specificity, both the consumer and the advertiser are happy. Since consumers see digital ads that are relevant for them and advertisers serve ads to people that are receptive to the message. Let's give a real life example. If our friends at Beyond Meat wanted to use Specificity, they can serve ads to consumers who are vegans, vegetarians, and or those who may be interested in a meat alternative without wasting any of their precious ad spend on the significant group that are carnivores without any interest in trying a meat alternative, such as my wife Sherry, who's a happy carnivore. This would enable beyond Meat to be incredibly efficient in serving the message only to those who would be receptive and doing it in a way that completely respects said consumer's privacy since they do not know or learn any personal information about these people, the bottom line is in 2022, we believe no one else out there can deliver better digital marketing results than Specificity.
We have introduced Specificity to many clients, and everyone is super happy since each client has been more successful with their digital marketing efforts than they were before. For more information on Specificity, please visit their website at specificityinc.com. Again, specificityinc.com. That's S P E C I F I C I T Y I N C .com. Their website is also on our show notes. If you wanna improve your digital marketing results, go check 'em out.
DC: LT, how do you do that without stopping to take a drink or something? Like how, how do, I mean, how do you do that, brother?
LT: Well, I'm putting on my, uh, best Marve Albert.
DC: You you do. You're doing good, man. You're doing good. Spoken like a true New Yorker. All right, Bianca, we are now into a segment we call Five Questions, and it goes down like this. I hit you with a question. Larry follows up with a question and we go back and forth until we reach five.
Bianca Blake: All right. Let's do it.
DC: Right. I'm gonna kick this thing off like the NBA season is coming up right now. Bianca, what was the first experience that you had with a brand, first one ever, where as you engaged with the brand, spent time with it, played with it, looked at it, listened to it. You just found yourself caught in a euphoria. You just love this brand. You could not get enough of this brand, almost like a, like a crush, if you will. What was that brand for you?
Bianca Blake: I'll tell you my answer that I'm gonna have to tell you why, cuz it's probably not gonna make sense.
DC: Oh, we, we, we want both.
LT: We wanna hear.
Bianca Blake: So I will say I, I absolutely fell in love with a brand called Parasuco I know. Have you ever heard of Parasuco? So Parasuco
LT: Can you spell that?
Bianca Blake: Yes. I think it's spelled P A R A S U C O.
LT: Okay.
Bianca Blake: Parasuco is a jeans company that was very popular. In the mid to late nineties. Okay. And this would've gone along the, the side of your COOGIES your icebergs,
You know, that's,
DC: Oh, we, we talk it now. We talk now. Oh, can I?
Bianca Blake: The food, Well, this was that whole like urban fashion movement that was happening.
So picture it. 19 95, 6, 7, 8, in those late 90 years, kid in the suburbs, right? You know, your, you got your JC pennies, your ma, you know, you have your, your regular big box retailers. These brands were not available there, right? You would've have had to go into the city and go into a special boutique. So, to me what it meant, it was less about the actual physical piece of clothing and actually about me being able to break out of my suburban life and kind of experience this new, this city, this vibe, this urban, you know, and be connected to something that, you know, I, I, Atlanta is a very diverse place, but the suburb that I grew up in was less so and so for me to kind of hear the music and the boutique that was playing to kind of, you know, just trying on these clothes. They just had the different, like, you know, artwork on 'em and they just violated all of the norms of the, the GAPs and the, you know, and at a time where, again, I probably had like my first job around this time, very, very low income teenager here. Right? Um, in that fast fashion, you know, period of my clothing experience, like the, the, you know, you wanna go and buy the, the clothes as cheap as possible.
These jeans were luxurious, they were expensive, they were. Multiple hundreds of dollars of jeans. So to save and save and save and save and be able to maybe get your parent to take you downtown to a boutique where you could actually try on a couple and maybe you might be able to afford to walk out with one.
It was a, it was just an amazing experience. So that was like the thing, like the, the have to have, I guess for some guys it's Jordan's, For some people it's the Louis Vuitton bag, you know, whatever. But for me it was being able to go into a more urban city vibe boutique and buy a pair of Parasuco jeans probably at 16 or at 17 years old, was like the first time I actually cared enough about, um, about a brand. So
LT: I love that. I love that description and the way you, and because brands become, uh, really not just the thing, like you said, it's not the just the clock, but it represents so much more in the way you described it from you as a team, sort of figuring out who you are and breaking out of that. And it was paradigm shifting for you, really.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Blake: Yeah. I was buying into. The identity I wanted for myself versus the identity that I was provided, which was, you know, this kind of cookie cutter, Like everybody goes from sixth grade to seventh grade and everybody does it right. And now I'm, I was sort of breaking out of that and saying, well this, you know, if, if my voice is going to be heard, if you will, this, this is what it might sound like trying on different types of experiences or different types of, um, you know, clothing in, in this regard.
But yeah, it was, you know, and then at the same time, you're coming of age as a person, like as a physical person as well. So you're starting to get a little bit more into kind of curves and like, things like that and like, Oh, okay, this is fun. You know, So all of that, all of those layers on top of it was why probably the first time I actually really cared about a brand was like, I have to have these Parasuco jeans.
I don't even know the Parasuco jeans are around anymore, but,
DC: Oh no, they're around. I just checked the website. They're around. Okay. Yeah, so they're around.
Bianca Blake: That was the thing.
DC: I never heard of it before, but, uh, so I'm glad you shared it. Uh, so two things. First, were there friends of yours that were also into, uh, Parasuco Jeans?
They were friends of yours as well? Okay.
Bianca Blake: Yes.
DC: All right. Like, like in terms of like percentage of like the population where you were, your school, were you in high school at this point? 16?
Bianca Blake: Yes.
DC: High school. Okay. Of, of, of the percentage of genes available, gene brands, where were you and your friends with, um, with, with, uh, Parasuco?
Bianca Blake: I think we probably, so I went to a school that was maybe 70%, um, white and 30% everything else.
DC: Okay.
Bianca Blake: So of that, So this definitely would not have been. You know, it would've just been sort of more in like the non-white group of people that were checkin for this brand.
DC: Got it. Okay.
Bianca Blake: Maybe at, I think it might be, it sounds like it might be an Italian brand or some sort of European brand. I don't know.
DC: It, it is Italian.
Bianca Blake: I have no idea. It was just something that I would've, I don't know how he found out about it. Why? Cause, I mean, there was no social media at the time. Um, why, why it was important. It could have been a rapper or somebody said it, or someone that we were influenced by at the time, and it was like, have to have it.
And then you find out that they're gonna be 150 or $170. You're like, Oh, I gotta save this little money. So I, I would say that probably my little circle of friends being influenced by something that we saw. Um, but yeah, it wouldn't, would not have been something I would've worn to school even. Probably.
DC: Yeah.
Bianca Blake: Might have only been the con if you get tickets to a concert, maybe this is outfit that you wear. Like, it was very, a very special kind of, um, experience for me, but it just taken me back to like my teenage year .
DC: Cool.
LT: You took us back. That was great.
DC: That's interesting. Yeah. All right, Larry, next question, brother.
LT: Yes. So Bianca, who's had or is having the most influence on your career?
Bianca Blake: So I would say, um, there was a gentleman by the name of Colin McKenzie. He was the vice president of a, of a, um, department that I worked in in my second job outta school. So, so lemme just set the scene for you, right. After I left business school, I started at the one company, the company where I met the other, you know, women.
And we all worked together and we had little issues and we had to go to Sonya's office. And one of the things that we all committed to was kind of having to evolve away from that company. And my, the next company I worked for was a consumer goods company. So I started my career in pharmaceutical marketing and then I evolved into consumer goods marketing, which is a very different type of marketing.
One of the things that I was, you know, in pharma marketing you don't really try the products cuz they're pharmaceuticals, might not be the right thing for you, Right. In consumer goods marketing you, you can be a much, much more part of the brand's experience as the marketer.
LT: Yep.
Bianca Blake: And so I remember Colin being the vice president, right?
Cause vice presidents, they sit in their office. This is back in the day, we all have cubicles and offices, gates, and way over there. And he would walk by every now and then to my desk. And I was working on a oral care, oral healthcare portfolio, specifically looking at a, uh, innovative toothbrush at the time.
So if you can imagine on my cubicle, I had these little push pins and I had push pinned up a whole bunch of different tooth, the whole category worth of toothbrushes, cuz I'm getting to know my categories that I'm new to this mm-hmm. . And this guy comes over to my desk and he starts rummaging through all of my, I had the neatly placed, right?
Cause I'm, I'm coming from pharma, where you look at it, you strategize, you're thinking about it, right? Look at the, he's come, he's taking him outta the packaging and he's taking the little, brushing his teeth with him. And he's, and I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing? And it was my first lesson. In ex experience experiencing what your consumer experience, experience it from the, the standpoint of what your audience is experiencing.
And this is, this is someone who is, He would never have had to, like my, my work would be presented to someone who would consolidate and present it to someone who he's three steps ahead. I, I am like super entry level at this point. Yeah. And the, the fact that he cared enough to be that connected to the result of what was coming outta his department mm-hmm.
it, it, it really impacted me as a leader. As well as as a marketer, because I was making the shift away from, you know, this is very conceptual because, you know, pharma, you, it, it, pharmaceutical marketing is, is fascinating cuz it has to go through, you know, there's a lot of different steps before it gets to the patient.
Yeah. But on the consumer side of the business, you know, you're, you're talking to consumers, they will go to the shelf and say they like this because it's in a purple box and, and you're like, well wait a minute, it has this great claim and we did all these tests and they're like, Yeah, this was purple and that was where I'm gonna go with the purple one.
So you have to be just like on the, on, at the, you have to have the pulse of the consumer, you know, at, at, at the top of my all the time. And, and him being at an elevated level within the organization, you know, did not exempt him from that. And that was, that's something that has always stayed with me no matter what is going on.
A lot of times, even cuz in software. Very unforgiving. And a lot of times I find myself testing things out immediately. Like, so someone says, Hey, this is supposed to do this. Okay, let's, let's try it. Or, or, This is the way that this works. Okay, let's do it. Or even when I'm demoing our product, I wanna show exactly what's happening because it's, it's, to me, it's important the experience, not the concept, but the actual experience that your consumer or your user, patient, consumer, et cetera, shopper, whatever realm you're in, is gonna have from the time they start engaging with your brand all the way through.
Right? Even like I mentioned before with the Parasuco who goes, what music was playing on the speakers in the boutique. Like, that's all part of the experience that creates this feel. And he, he personified that without even trying, I mean, uh, almost to my dismay, my, my neatly placed products on my desk. You just come through and, you know, so I, I would say he, he, um, is a stellar marketer, always has been. And, and a very, very wonderful leader.
LT: Love that. And you still remember that story, you took us back to that cubicle. I love it.
D, you wanna go to the next question?
DC: I do, brother. I do. You know this from personal experience, Bianca, you've probably heard it from, uh, from those who look like you and I, but as often said, uh, in our community, the African American community, Black community, is that if you're gonna go into these jobs, corporate jobs and or be an entrepreneur, you can't be as good as the other folks.
You got to be better. Okay? You must be better. Mm-hmm. . So you wouldn't be sitting here on this podcast talking to us right now if you were not exceptional. But for this question, I wanna know anything about that.
Bianca Blake: Okay.
DC: For this question, Bianca, I'd like to know what was your biggest F up, like the singular biggest F up that was on you? Nobody else on you, and what you learned from it?
Bianca Blake: Okay. So that is, that's a tough one because we're used to, you know, kind of talking ourselves up. But I, I will say that, um, I will say people are important to me.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Blake: So when, when I, I try to do right by people all the time, no matter who they are and, and what and what regards.
People are way more important than, than a lot of things, or exp whatever people. It's all, it all starts and ends with people. So the biggest mistake I would say that I've made is one along my entrepreneurial journey, which is hiring, before I was ready to hire.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Blake: Um, I, I had a, a big contract that came through and, and before the company to Klickrrerr we were a straight sort of marketing consultancy and had a big contract come and we needed a, you know, we needed a full time body on that particular contract in addition to myself and everyone else that was on the team at the time.
So I hired someone and I, the, the mistake that I made was not hiring connected to that contract. So assuming that there would just continue to be more work afterwards and not making the adjustment and setting the expectations. So after the contract was done and I had been doing it all of the work to get another contract of that same caliber or even more so that I can con continue with this, um, employee. Nothing came, you know, or, and nothing that was that big that could have, um, afforded to, to, to keep the employee on. So, you know, it was, it was a problem because it, it kind of, um, it almost like led the company drive resources trying to continue to, to keep her on and also set her up for this, you know, like as far as her development and being able to move on to the next thing and then, you know, having job security, et cetera.
So what I have learned from that experience is that what I said to start the story, which is people are so important to me. Like it was more important for me to, to keep the employee than it was for me to grow my company. And I learned that. I didn't realize that, I know that as a person. I didn't realize that that carried over into business.
So people are, are very, very important to me. I never wanna leave anybody in the situation. Um, but then it also taught me, which is, which is what I'm benefiting from that lesson now, is you do need to have the right, talent at the right levels, on the projects and in the business. So it's, it's not always permissible to hire entry level talent or intern level talent, that kind thing.
You do need the knowledge workers mm-hmm. , Um, but they don't have to be employees because employees right have to have workers compensation this year and benefits and like, it has all of these things that come along with it that make it much more expensive to keep on a, on an ongoing basis if your, if your project load is, uh, variable. Um, so until you get that five year, you know, contract, that's gonna be a whole bunch of zeros at the end of it, then maybe, you know, you're not ready or you're ready to hire, but connect the higher to the contract and set those expectations very clearly up front. That's a great, It was tough. That was a tough experience for me.
And, um, she, but she's doing well now, she's, that was a trans, she was making a transition into marketing from, from finance and now she's off working for some wonderful ad ad agency. So it, it ended up turning out okay, but it, it might not have gone that way, which was horrifying for me as the person who set that into motion.
LT: I love that D, because of the entrepreneurial nature to that. Um, yes. Right. And I honestly, Bianca, I think you're the first person to share a story like that and it's a, it's a huge lesson. So thanks for sharing that.
Bianca Blake: We all feel like all of these folks that are on whatever social media or whatever, Oh, I'm, I got a business, I own a business. Like it's all easy to do that. But when you get, when you have to make payroll , right? It's like you have to make a decision between paying yourself or paying your employees. And it's like, it, things get real. It gets really real and you learn about yourself.
DC: So it gets real in a hurry. We're gonna go to the next question, but I'll just say this. Um, two of my mentors, one still with us, one not Clarence Avant, and then, uh, Don Cornelias, Rest in Power. They both said to me, Don't make your move too soon. Mm. Both say that to me. All right, Larry, next question, brother.
LT: Yes. So regarding technology in marketing, you have seen the rise of tech, Bianca, and the importance, importance it now plays with us marketers, and you're living it.
So can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech versus areas that they should be leery?
Bianca Blake: Tech. So, yeah, technology is good, but it's also not very good. You know, at the end of the day, as marketers, we're trying to create momentum. We're trying to create movement. We're trying to create change. We're, we're educating, we're persuading, we're communicating. We, we do a lot of things when we, we bring things to the so-called marketplace. Technology should always be used as a support. To that, that that's where you want technology to be. Right? So, so I, I co-founded a company called Klickrr and we deal in text messaging, right?
And, and one thing we find is it's very interesting that, that you ask this question cuz we find that people would like to text anybody and everybody at will. And that is just not how text messaging is meant to be used, right? It's meant to be, it's a real time piece of communication. So you need to make sure whatever you're sending someone, they needed to see it in real time, right?
They needed to know that at that moment, not tomorrow, not next month, but immediately when they open that text message, it's like, Oh yes, I'm so glad you told me this right away. And so to me that's a good example of how technology could be useful and also not so useful because if you're busy clogging someone's text messages with information, that could have been an email.
You know. Mm-hmm. Then they're not going to appreciate that. If you're a person, they're definitely not gonna appreciate it if you're a business. Right. Or a brand trying to market to them or communicate with them, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think technology has to be used, but it can't, it can't be out front.
Right. It needs to be supporting a strategy, supporting something. So if, if you have decided that, you know, I can't, I can't even imagine, like, you know, if, if you gave me a situation, um, but, but the, the crux of it is techno. It's almost like, um, I use what the example of PowerPoint. It's almost like you, if you're having a presentation and you're using PowerPoint slides, PowerPoint slides or Keynote or whatever it is, are meant to be a visual support for what you're saying.
They cannot take the place of what you're saying. You still need to tell the story or give the presentation or make the point what you, and make the connection. But that visual aid is there to visually aid you not become the presentation. Right. And technology in my mind, um, has created. I don't know. It's like this, this social norm where it's like we start in it.
Like I've, I've been in conversations before with people and they're like, Okay, so we're gonna launch an app. Okay, so what's the app gonna do? Mm-hmm. And I'm like, The, the app is not the thing. Yeah. What you're trying to do is the thing, the app is sort of gonna get you to the thing that you, It's not about the app, it's, it's about what do you want people to do as a result of engaging with it.
Mm-hmm. And then let's go and build, you know, or let's, you know, even with Klickrr, let's send text message, go, Well what are you trying to say? And then let's figure out if this is the, you know. So I think unfortunately, technology has a low barrier to entry for most, for most channels, but a super high barrier to success.
I'm gonna repeat that. Technology, podcast included, right? You guys are successful podcasts, but there's a, there's a very, I mean, the barrier to entry is like floor for most technology.
DC: That's right.
Bianca Blake: But the barrier to success is really, really high. So what that means is, if you're not careful, you can have a lot of people using technology for things that it was not meant to be used for, but the successful ones are the ones that are using it the right way.
But there's, there's a, there's a spectrum there, and there's some expertise and strategy and credentials and networks and all of those things that come along in the middle that actually get you to the success, not unlike by the way, the things that made you successful before technology.
LT: Right. So, Bianca, just to sum it up at preach, because I, I live in Silicon Valley and technology always becomes the first thing, like you said, people go, Oh, what's the, And, and it, it really, as you said, it needs to support what you're trying to do, not be the primary.
So I, I, I love that. D, you wanna go to the next question?
DC: I do, Bianca. What are you most proud of?
Bianca Blake: Well, that's the easy one. Um, I, as a mom, as I mentioned before, I am the most proud of the family that my husband and myself have built together. Mm-hmm. Um, I think really quickly, I'll just say, I think that the, the social norm, or at least the way we were raised, is that you chase your career first and kind of like family is like in the background and we've, we've made a conscious effort to put our family in the foreground. And, and that is created, you know, it makes it easy to make decisions. But as such, like we, we live, um, we, we moved as a, as a result of that to be closer to our, our parents cuz we're kind of sandwiched into, into that space where we're taking care of our parents as they age, but also we have small children and we're taking care of them as well. So we've, we've made a decision to be, to be all in on the family front and, and kind of let the, the business, the, you know, the, the jobs and all that kind of fall, um, where they may within, within that. And it's, it's turned out to be so rewarding because we haven't lost a step professionally, but we've gained so much.
Um, personally, and so, you know, I think, um, I think it's, it's, it's a point of pride for me because it's, it's different than if you had asked me 20 years ago, it was going straight to the C-suite or whatever it was, right? And now it's, it's, it's work is super important and leaving a legacy and building something meaningful, it's, it's, I'm not diminishing that, but it's the, the, the, the family, the village, the, the extended family.
Though, like I said before, people it, that, that has to be at the center of everything that we do. And so having that north star and being committed to it is a point of pride for me.
LT: You should be proud and please shout out names.
Bianca Blake: Absolutely. So my, my amazing husband, Ricardo, um, right, We have a three year old, soon to be four year old daughter, Rihanna, but probably by the time this airs, she might be four. And, um, uh, almost two year old son Roman. So we've got one in three in the house. So it is very fun around here.
LT: Oh yeah, you're busy to say the least.
Bianca Blake: Yes, Yes, for sure.
DC: All right, we have completed that section.
Bianca Blake: Okay.
DC: Five questions.
Bianca Blake: That was fun and very reflective.
DC: That was fun.
LT: That was.
DC: I, I enjoyed that, Bianca. We enjoyed that. Now we got the next section, and Larry is going to tee this up.
LT: What's popping? What's popping, D? What's popping, Bianca?
DC: What's popping?
LT: So, Bianca, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air something happening in and around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion.
So, d Should you lead off, or shall I?
DC: I'd like you and Bianca to do y'all's thing. I got a little bit of a different What's popping today.
LT: Okay, so I got a deep one. So I think we're gonna let the, the, the guest here lead off Bianca.
DC: Okay. Go ahead, Bianca.
LT: We don't usually do this, but you're, we don't,
DC: it's first time I think we begin.
LT: Give us your, what's popping?
Bianca Blake: Okay. I, I'll make it very quick. So I think what's popping in marketing right now is big brands partnering with smaller or otherwise no name brands.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Blake: I, I love the trend and I think that, you know, the, the, um, I don't wanna say democratization, but like the social media platforms that are allowing people to kind of build their own, these little small, innovative brands.
It, it feels like the larger brands, it's almost like they know that they need to tap into some of that in order for them to stay relevant. And it's happening in more of a, um, authentic way as opposed to them like, Oh, I'm gonna go buy that and make it part of my brand. It's like they, they're keeping the, the, the wholeness and the goodness and the richness of some of these smaller brands as they, as they partner together.
I find this a lot with like, um, Target as a really big brand partnering with some of their black own brands. They do it during Black History Month. They do it all throughout the year as well. Um, and a couple other, I can name a couple other examples, but as opposed to them trying to purchase the brand and make it like private label, they're, they're, they, you could go right in the store and you see this person is the CEO of this brand or this, here's the, the story behind this.
And I, I think that, um, I'm liking that trend a lot. I hope, hope to see that continue.
DC: Yeah, I think that trend is dope. Uh, just a couple I wanna mention off the rip, you got, uh, uh, Brand Jordan. They have done a collab with a brand outta Detroit, a fashion brand called Two 18 t w o 18. They've also done a, a collab with Howard University, My daughter Hailey's alma mater.
And then Nike and, and LeBron James have done a partnership with your alma mater FAMU So I think that's absolutely dope movement.
LT: Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And quite honestly, I think it goes back to what you alluded to before about having consumer first, right? What your, what your old boss Colin was saying, Bianca, that you've gotta really connect with people where they are.
And so when you do this in a way where you, uh, where larger companies, larger brands are connecting with folks who are doing things genuinely with real consumers in a real cool way, it's one of those win win wins for everyone. So I love it.
DC: Mm-hmm. LT?
LT: You want me to go my next?
DC: Yes, please, brother, Please. All right, so
LT: allow me some, uh, space for this.
Um, so I want to give you guys the, the right, uh, intro to this. So are, uh, are either of you familiar with Isabelle Wilkerson? Who's the Pulitzer award winning journalist? Bianca, are you familiar with her?
DC: I'm, I'm not LT.
Bianca Blake: I'm not either.
LT: Okay. So in 2010 she wrote a book called The Warmth of Other Sons, which is the epic story of America's great migration, chronicling the Black migration in the 20th century out of the south to the north and west.
It's probably one of the most important and untold stories of the 20th century. Incredible book. I highly recommend it. So after I just finished that, D, you remember I was telling you about this? I finished it. Yep. Right. I finished it a month or two ago, and I noticed that she wrote another book in 2020 that came out, uh, you know, uh, towards the, you know, in the pandemic year called Caste, C A S T E.
DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
LT: The origins of our discontents. So the book describes racism in the US as an aspect of a caste. And again, I'm gonna say that again. That's what, what was known in India, the caste, c a s t e system, which is a, a society system of social stratification characterized by notions such as hierarchy, inclusion, and exclusion, and purity.
And I acknowledge that I'm only about 80 pages in of a 500 page book, but it has me completely hooked on so many levels. I think there's so much to learn from myself and any person in the US and in my humble opinion, there are huge marketing implications to the caste society we live in. I'm going to read some passages and hopefully it's segues into an interesting conversation for us.
So if this comes straight from the book, quote, A cast system uses rigid, often arbitrary boundaries to keep the ranked groups apart, distinct from one another, and in their assigned places. Throughout human history, three caste systems have stood out, the tragically accelerated chilling and officially vanquished caste system of Nazi Germany, the lingering millennial long caste system of India and the shapeshifting unspoken race caste pyramid in the US. So that's incredibly well written. So I wanna put in a personal aside here, one of the things our culture sells, indeed, we've talked about this a lot on this podcast, uh, is the American dream and it's sold to us, hook, line and sinker, from when we're kids, which is the idea of anyone having a chance to achieve and make it.
So as a kid, when you read about India or England, or I'll say for, for me, for that matter, where there's still a monarchy in England. So I still perceive that as having their own sort of cast stratification in, in the UK you feel like, as a kid, I felt like I'm lucky to be in a place without a rigid caste system.
So then at different points in my life and my upbringing, I'm, I, and I may importantly add where you realize where you personally stand in this caste. Again, I'm speaking to the one in the US, you realize things aren't fair and the deck is really stacked against those who are viewed by society as large, as the lower end of the cast. So again, I'm, pardon me, I'm gonna read a little bit more. So another quote in the book, "The hierarchy of caste is not about feelings or morality. It is about power. Which groups have it, which do not, and which resources cast is seen as worthy of them, or which are not? Who got, who gets to control them and who does not. So what she says, and this is brilliantly written, cast, is the bones, race is the skin. Race is what we can see. The physical traits that have been given arbitrary meaning and becomes shorthand for how a person is. Caste is the powerful infrastructure that holds each group in place. And again, she's talking about the US here, right?
DC: Mm-hmm.
LT: And she says the American caste system began in the years after the arrival of the first Africans in Virginia in the summer of 1619 as the colony south to refine the distinctions of who could be enslaved for life and who could not. Slavery so perverted the bound of power that it made.
The degradation of the subordinate cast seem normal and righteous. A ladder emerged with the English Protestants at the very top as their guns and resources would ultimately prevail in the bloody fight for North America. Everyone else would rank in descending order on the basis of their proximity to those deem most superior. So, and again, I'm almost done here, so, uh, of course, and this is me speaking, then I'm gonna read the last part. Of course, as immigration really happens in a large way in the 19th century with Jews, Italian, Irish coming along with Asians and Hispanics, they fit into the cast with male English wasps at the top, and African Americans at the bottom.
James Baldwin once said no one was white before he or she came to America. This is the last part I'm gonna read, and then I'm gonna let you guys talk. To gain acceptance, each fresh infusion of immigrants had to enter into a silent, unspoken pact of distancing from the established lowest caste. They could establish their new status by observing how the lowest caste was regarded in imitating, or one opening or one uping, the disdain and contempt learning the epi habitats, joining in on violence against them to prove themselves worthy of admittance to the dominant caste.
The social pyramid noted is this cast system is not identical to the caste in a play, though the similarity in the two words hints at a tantalizing intersection, when we are caste into roles, we are not ourselves. We are performing based on our place in the production, not necessarily in who we are inside.
We are all players on a stage that was built long before our ancestors arrived in this land. We are the latest cast and a long running drama that premiered on the soil in the early 17th century. And the last line she says is, it was in the process of ranking that we are all caste into assigned roles to meet the needs of the larger production. None of us are ourselves. Your thoughts?
Bianca Blake: No. Wow. Yeah. Absolutely. So, wow. I just wanna say thank you for introducing that to me. I, I will say I need to be much more well read and I will put that on my list of,
LT: It's amazing
Bianca Blake: books to read cuz that sounds like an amazing, uh, breakdown. I'm, I'll let you speak first DC cuz you know, I, I do have some, some thoughts.
DC: Okay. Bianca. Larry, as Bianca has said, thank you brother.
LT: Yes.
DC: I'll be brief. Did I hear you say that America was described as the caste pyramid in the US.
LT: Yes. That's what, That's her theory in the book. That's her. In other words, what she's saying, Nazi Germany was, So what happened? Yep. India really happened, and this is her theory. We're live. And what blew me away, and again, d I want you to, what blew me away is I'm reading this and going, Holy shit, we're all walking around in this. It's almost like, what was that movie with Jim Carey where he didn't realize he was in a movie, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm right? The Truman Show. It's like we're in, That's what it felt like. And it's like, and then I started thinking about myself and how I tried to break out of what my caste as a Jewish person is in this world. And so many decisions I've made in my life were to break out of that mold. Yeah. Cause that's not who I felt I was.
DC: Yep. This, this is heavy brother. So yes. The answer to the question of yes, that is exactly what she used to describe the US. As a cast pyramid. Yes. She also talked about a social pyramid. I'm gonna go to a quote that our business partner, Jeff, Bianca shares with us and, um, he's also our producer on, on Brands, Beats and Bytes. The quote is, and Jeff, check me on this, Genius is distributed evenly, opportunity is not. Yep. When I hear the words of this author, what I want people to take away is the reason why things are the way they are in terms of a caste system in America and around the globe. It isn't coincidental. Yep. It's strategic. Mm-hmm. Yep. That, that's all I have to say on that.
Bianca Blake: So, so as, as part of the introduction, Larry mentioned that I used to work and live in Sub-Saharan Africa. Yep. Yeah. And one of the caste systems that wasn't mentioned is, Um, what happened in South Africa a few decades back, the apartheid, which was unlike the caste system in America, which as you mentioned, it was intangible, kind of just based on behaviors and assumptions.
And these little like social agreements, this caste system was very, very clearly documented, right? These people are better than these people. Yes, Right. These people are better than these people, and so on and so forth. Um, and at the time it is, you know, quite horrific because it meant people that had been living on certain lands were relocated to others.
For, for those who are not familiar with what happened in, um, And apartheid in South Africa during apartheid. But the, the caste system went like, like this, and this is important. So it went, white man was the best then white woman. Then they had a race they call colored, which actually in South Africa means what we would call mixed.
Like you're not, you're not black, you're not white. It's a mix. You're not, you're mixed kind of, they call it, that's the word, the term that they use. So, pardon if I'm offending anyone, but they call it color. And then you have, there's Indian, so there's more Indians in South Africa any than anywhere else in the world except for India.
So you have color Indian in the middle man, first and woman, and then black man, black woman. So it goes in that order. Now after apartheid. So Nelson Mandela and the, you know, ANC and all, all these wonderful things happening at the end. And now the country had, you know, whatever they've come into post-apartheid now.
What they have done in order to adjust this caste system is they have created within. They're a taxation system or incentive systems for businesses that you need to now do business with people the opposite way. Right? So turn it over now. So you get points in, it's called Black Economic Empowerment. It's a system within their government that rewards businesses for doing businesses first with black women. Then with black men first, with color Indian women, then with color Indian men, then with white women, then with white, white men. And as a foreigner, like I will be considered in that group of white men. Like it's, it's, it's very localized. It's focused on native South Africans. Right, Right. So let's say this to say that a lot of times when we're talking about America specifically, we have these false dualities, right?
This, that, this thing is the opposite of this thing. So the caste system that, that, um, Isabelle Wil Wilkerson was talking about, I think sometimes we falsely think that the, the, the solution to that is to just break it down altogether. Yeah. But I, I might suggest that, that what we might learn from our South African brothers and sisters, of course they have their, their slew problems and things like that.
It's not perfect. But if you wipe away race together, then it, it leaves you less of a framework to combat some of the things that were put in place. I tell you, I will tell you this short story. As a, as a, as a company that is minority and women own. Right. I'm trying to get my minority and women own business certification.
This was years ago when, when I first started and I went, I think I was in, was it New York City? New York State. One of these, uh, one of these city, state, you know, they wanna do business with minority businesses. And on the um, application, I had to prove that I was a minority.
DC: Oh, wow. Okay.
Bianca Blake: Which, it's, it's a sensible thing to have to prove if you wanted it.
Yeah. But lemme tell you what I learned in that process that all government issued identification has been scrubbed clean of racial. Interesting of racial designations. Mm-hmm. So now you look at this duality, right? So on the one hand we've got this caste system and we can all agree, probably not the greatest thing, but what's the solution on the other side?
Well, let's be post-racial and just get passing and we don't need that anymore. But in order for the, the, the city, state, private industry to pick out those individuals that were, that were put at the bottom of this caste system, now we're like, not identify we're, you know, then now how can they point me out as a minority?
My license doesn't say it, my passport doesn't say it. My birth certificate doesn't say, I would say I had to go and find my birth certificate that proved that my mom was my mom, and then go find her original birth certificate. Not one that I can get a, the original one from way back in the day.
DC: Wow.
Bianca Blake: It had her race on it and her, and she was noted on my birth certificate as being my mother in order for that particular entity to stamp me as saying, You are bonafide minority.
So I say this to say we have to be careful in marketing and communications and address and generally problem solving and, and really defining what the issue was. I think, uh, sorry. Elizabeth Isabelle Wilkerson does a great job in defining the problem so that we can be clear on what some solutions may be as opposed to being so emotionally.
I don't wanna say soft. Cause being, I'm not gonna say that's a bad thing, but being like not able to handle the heaviness of it, to the point where we can't even engage in it to create a reasonable solution. And then we just say, Oh, we don't wanna deal with that. Or let's make 'em all minorities. Well, slave blooded black people have a different story then black people that migrated here, or you know, Asian Americans have a different story that are born here versus migrated. People who speak English at a second language have a different issue. And when we bucket us all together, yes, we may be in a similar rung on that caste system, but our issues are different. And therefore, how we market to people if we're talking marketing has gotta be different. But how we solve the issues that that cast system created is also different.
DC: Here Here.
LT: We could have a million, we could spend forever. I'm almost sorry to, but you could see why I wanted to have this conversation. I thought Bianca absolutely be perfect to, to have this with. And I, I'll just say this also, so much of this goes back to what you just said is de-marking who you are and what scares me.
You know, again, as a Jewish person in Nazi Germany, you had to have a J on your ID and then you had the Star of David. So when, when you say think about race and stuff, and by the way, they, they used the Jim Crow laws in Nazi Germany to write up the, the anti-Jewish laws. Okay? So that goes back to the caste system.
That, and how effed up it was in our country. Um, so all of this, it depends on whose hands it's in. And that's
Bianca Blake: Absolutely.
LT: Right.
Bianca Blake: So, well, I will say this as a black person, you can see that I'm black. Mm-hmm. So I gotta deal with the ramifications of it. Either way. So to me, I don't have a problem with my identifications.
To me, this is me, this is my personal experience. Yep. Now, if, if I was in a, in a group that may or may not be as obvious, I, I might maybe, I might feel differently about that, but I have to deal with people judging me or prejudging me or whatever it is. You know, thinking that, you know, following me around the store, whatever, you know, these stories that you hear about, I have to deal with that. Whether or not my, in my identification says I'm black or not. Right. So to me, the me having the one time when it actually benefited me being black, Right. It was like I had to go through these lists
LT: and that was the most onerous. Yeah. Yeah. There's irony in that. D do you wanna grab a, do you wanna move to, to your, What's popping?
DC: I do indeed. That was, that was heavy. That was heavy. Now, brand nerds, they know that Larry and I don't share our, what's popping with one another before the show. We hear it for the first time, like the Brand Nerds hear it and like you hear. So today is kind of interesting On this one, it's a different, it's a different what's popping for me. I am not looking for your opinions on this. I just wanna make a, a, a statement and ask a question. The subject is context matters. I'm gonna use an analog here. Here's the question. Does heating your house matter now? That's the question. Now here's the answer. Contextually, if it's July and you go to most of the country here in the US and you ask the question, Does heating your house matter?
Now the answer you're gonna get is kind of, or not really. The reason you're gonna get that answer is because heat is abundant outside, so there's no need for any extra heat inside. However, if you ask that same question to most of the country in January. Does heating your house matter now in January? The answer you're gonna get in most of the country is absolutely, it matters now. Cause as cold as hell outside is the dead of the winter and there's no heat outside. It's not an abundance. In fact, heat outside is absent. Okay, So that's the context here. I need to talk about my brother Kanye for a minute.
Bianca Blake: Talk about it. Talk about it.
DC: I must do this. Kanye this week had a shirt on a t shirt and themed his fashion, um, presentation.
Uh, and it said White Lives Matter. White Lives Matter. And he got lit up in social media. So the brother defended himself, and here is what the brother said. This is from the New York Post. I want to make certain I get this, this is a quote. "Everyone knows that Black Lives Matter was a scam. Now it's over. You're welcome." This is, this is a quote, quote from him. Uh, and so I'm, I'm, I'm looking at this and I'm like, Okay, so I get the words White Lives Matter and the First Amendment protects his right to say those words. That is a fact. But there are times when something can be a fact and not be the truth. Mm-hmm.
Of course, white lives matter, but that's not the. Let me go to politics here for a second. James Carville, when he was working with Bill Clinton to get him elected, he came up with a line, and the line was, "It's the economy, stupid." In other words, he was saying, Let's not worry about all the other stuff. Yep.
It's the economy stupid. That's what people are focused on to this. I say it's the context. Stupid . It's the data stupid. Now, I'm not calling Kanye a stupid person. He's a brilliant man, but just stick with me a little bit about this context. Let's go to the data. So why are people bothered by that phrase?
Let's go to the data. Okay, so people were in the streets because a black man, several of them had been fatally shot by law enforcement offices. So here's the data. Per 1 million people in this country, 41 are fatally shot per 100. Per per million. 16 are white, 41 Black, 16 white. For those mathematicians in the building, that's a difference of 39%.
So that's one reason why the context is different. Mm-hmm. Because of the data. The next one, let's, let's go to incarceration rates. Percent of Black Americans in the general US population, 30 13%. We know that percent of people in prison or jail who are black, 38% incarceration rate for Blacks versus whites. 2,306 versus 450 per 100,000 people. Percent of people serving life, life without parole or virtual life sentences who are black, 48%. Arrest rates for Black versus whites and American 6,109. By the way, the last source was Statistica, This is Prison Policy Initiative. That's the source here that I'm reading from now versus 2,795.
This is the reason why the context is different. So back to my analog. For Black people in law enforcement, it's the dead of the winter and it's cold as hell and we don't have heat, whereas our white brothers and sisters relative to law enforcement, it's July and it's cozy. Mm-hmm. So my question is, Kanye, what are you seeking to teach the world and our people?
Now lemme just say this real quick. I've worked with this brother. He is indeed brilliant. He helped us build the Boost Mobile brand into a multi-billion dollar brand. He, The Game, and, and Ludicrous were in an ad together. He was fantastic. I've sat across from this brother in a conversation on B roll.
Very respectful, extremely smart, all of those things. I give you this brother because you've earned it. Now, I'm an imperfect man, but I know why I'm on the planet to inspire, uplift, and subtly educate. One of my friends, Rob Stone and I talk about this sometimes he Cornerstone Promotions in Fader Magazine.
These are the three reasons, Bianca and Larry, that I'm on the planet now. In terms of what I attempted to teach with the Sprite brand that I worked at for many years at Coca-Cola Company, I wanted to raise up hiphop culture as an example of global brands can dominate by partnering and honoring with Black and brown led uh, brands.
They can do that. It's good business to do business with Black and brown people across the myriad spirits, shoes, fashion, movies, all of these things. This is what I was trying to do when I was working on the Sprite brand and you did it. Thank you, brother. Thank you, Larry. I was also trying to make a point that was overall, so to other corporate folks and senior people and Titans, I wanted them to look at the Sprite brand and say, If they can do it, we can do it.
LT: Not only if they can do it, we should do it because there's money to be made.
DC: There's money to be made, So, so, so yes. Uh, Puff, let's do this Diagio thing, right? I've seen, I've seen what can happen in non-alcoholic beverages. Maybe it can happen here as well. So I wanted that before my Black folks, my Black and brown folks.
I wanted them to know that Black and brown people could lead global brands. That were relying on Black consumers and Black and brown culture for growth. I wanted Black and brown folks to see that. Now, I didn't do it. All right. Kanye brother. I didn't do it right, but I tried. So to my question to you brother, Kanye, with the utmost of respect, clearly state what you're seeking to teach our people, please, so that we can have a context for why you do what you do.
Because the context in which we are evaluating what you're doing now, we don't understand. That's my what, poppin. That's my what poppin.
All right.
LT: Let that breathe. That was amazing.
DC: Thanks.
Yeah.
Bianca Blake: I have so much to say , but, Okay. Whew.
DC: Okay. All right, Larry, so you take us home, brother.
LT: Let's go to the show close, D. Yeah. All right. Yep. Um, Bianca, you know what? We thought you'd be awesome and you were better than awesome.
DC: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Blake: Oh, thank you.
LT: We so appreciate having you. You were amazing. Um, I learned so much. I'm gonna try and boil it down to, uh, to a small number here. So I'm gonna, uh, go quickly first here. I love your, uh, my first one is find your tribe, like Bianca did. And I love the meeting in Sonya's office and that, that's still a reference.
I love that. So that's so important for anyone in business or anyone, uh, anyone in life. Uh, number two, as an entrepreneur, why wouldn't you do business planning? It's so true. Um, . It's so true. Uh, next one, As Bianca does, do right by people first, and that means that segues into find the right talent in the right place at the right time. And it is okay having contractors, not permanent employees, if that's what the situation is. Right. And uh, I love the, I have two more for marketers, tech is important, but it should be the support. Fewer objectives and strategy, not the lead. And I'm gonna close with what, uh, Bianca has what I think is incredibly successfully done. Family First family.
DC: Mm.
LT: Those are mine.
DC: That's dope. LT. That's dope. Mm-hmm. Bianca, I don't know if you've listened to our podcast or not. If you have, you know, at the end, sometimes, not all the times, but sometimes I'm able to peer into the eyes of the, uh, of the guest and understand something, um, making connections to what they've said that the guests may or may not know about themselves.
Bianca Blake: Okay.
DC: And I am going to attempt to do that with you. All right. First, when you talked about your family and answer to the question of what are you most proud of? What you, what you said was, you are proud of the family that you and your husband have built together. That is exactly what you said. When you were in Sub-Saharan Africa, you were building brands, you were building brands, and you did that here as well. When you gave the example of, um, you are in this, in this cubicle and person comes in and starts moving around the tooth toothbrushes and puts it in his mouth and all of that, and you like, Hey, what's, what's happening here? As you described why you had the toothbrushes up and you talked about your pharma experience, what you were doing in a new area is you were building your knowledge base and then you talked about your crew, your crew, four of you, and I believe you said you all used a, um, the word BRICS to describe your, your group because you used the first initial of each of your names and you came to bricks or somehow some amalgamation of your names.
Did I hear that right?
Bianca Blake: You did.
DC: Got it. All right, so we got family that you've built. We've got Subsaharan Africa marketing brands that you've built. We have building your knowledge base, and then you even shared a story about in the, what was your biggest f up about people. You talked about people several times, but in this context it was like you hired too early and you were concerned about this person's ability to move on to their next job.
So there you are concerned with building platforms for people to perform. You're a builder, Bianca, but you're a special kind of builder. Uh, you did work in Africa, so I wanna go back to that continent. You are like a builder of pyramids, Bianca. Things that have a majesty to them, things that stand the test of time.
Things that when you go into it, you have experiences. You talk about experiential things that have to do with people, because inside of pyramids are stories of not only the Pharaohs, but the people that surrounded the Pharaohs. And so as it relates to your career, I can clearly see how you have built pyramids throughout your career, both as a professional on the corporate side and an entrepreneur.
And I just wanna say it is an honor to be in the presence of a Pyramid builder.
Bianca Blake: Thank you. It is. It is. Pleasure has been mine. Thank you so much.
DC: You're welcome.
Bianca Blake: I do appreciate that.
DC: You're welcome. All you.
LT: Bianca, is there anything you, you learned from this wonderful conversation with us?
Bianca Blake: Absolutely. I mean, I, I learned. I learned so much talking to you guys. I, I, I mentioned this to, to Jeff at, at one point, there is something to be said about marketers talking to other marketers. We see things in a, in a certain way. I won't, I won't go through and, and like list particular points, but I definitely, um, will mention that, um, Isabel Wilkerson, that has been eyeopening to just see mm-hmm. the way that we do things broken down. I, like I mention DC mentioned about people, you know, understanding people, background of people, history, people, all fascinating to me as a marketer. Um, I, I was gonna, I was gonna tell a whole nother story about something that deals with that, but we, we will, we'll pause that conversation for the next time we, we talk, but, um, But yeah, no, it's been great and I've learned that you have a radio voice, which I think is amazing, and I've learned that DC has the ability to kind of, uh, you, you both have the ability to make, to make a person feel like they're way, way bigger than they are.
So thank you for, thank you for having me today. Um, this is a few days after, uh, uh, Florida A&M's birthday. So I have to say happy birthday, the Florida A&M, October 3rd, 1887. Cause that is where it all started. All this whole journey, um, professionally began at the School of Business and Industry at Florida a and m University.
So thank you for, um, for everything. This has been amazing. And thank you guys for having this platform for marketers to get together and, and nerd out in the marketing.
LT: Thank you, Bianca. There's no imposter syndrome. We've already said that.
Bianca Blake: Absolutely.
LT: Thanks for listening to the Brands, Beats and Bytes recorded virtually on zoom and a production of KZSU Stanford, 90.1 FM radio worldwide at kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, myself, Larry Taman, Joseph Anderson, Jade Tate, Hailey Cobbin, and Tom Dioro.
DC: The Podfather.
LT: And if you are listening to us via podcast, it would be great if you can please rate and review us. Additionally, if you do like the show, please subscribe and share. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. And we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing with another great business leader as our guest.