Eram Saeed [00:00:00]:
It helps you to cultivate and achieve some beautiful aspects in your life such as love, dignity, confidence, wealth, freedom, justice, purpose, clarity, faith, leadership, community. How important passion and purpose is? Passion is something that I have learned that you know are clues. Your soul is constantly giving you clues. So whatever you are passionate about is not a coincidence.
Mike Koenigs [00:00:29]:
You went from your basically I hate God to making a resolution and being able to help other women deal with that conflict that exists, which is knowing who you are and feeling like you say, like either are you a duck or are you an eagle?
Eram Saeed [00:00:47]:
And she had written about how she considers me to be her role model for a parent. I think that's it, man. That's like nothing else compares to that. To have your 20 something daughter tell you that you're my role model.
Mike Koenigs [00:01:19]:
Hi there. Welcome to another episode of Capability Amplifier. This is Mike Koenigs. I want to ask you a question. What comes to your mind when you hear the word Islam or Muslim? And if you're an American or a Westerner like me, you might not have a positive response, maybe a sense of distrust because you just write it off. Because there's so many complexities, because there's so much strife and war and disagreements involving Islamic countries we don't comprehend. But sometimes all it takes is meeting one person to change the way you feel about a word or a feeling or an idea. So today I'm going to introduce a big idea, really beautiful world called Jamali and something really special, the Jamali method.
Mike Koenigs [00:02:02]:
My guest today is Erim Saeed. She was born in Pakistan to an influential family. Her father was a decorated general and her uncle led the equivalent of the Pakistani caa. And as long as she can remember, she heard the words and was told you don't matter and to be a good wife. And that you don't matter unless you get married. She came from a great family who loved her and didn't mean to hold her back. But the centuries old cultural conditioning doesn't value women and girls being educated or independent. And she was the smart one in the house with good grades.
Mike Koenigs [00:02:37]:
And more than anything, she wanted to escape Pakistan, move to the us, study and get her mba. She has a massive vision and a huge following with a reach of 23 million and over 1 million dedicated followers. And has created a movement to bring freedom, purpose and leadership to Muslim women with a message of peace and abundance and prosperity. And for the record, There are over 2 billion Muslims worldwide, representing over 25% of the global population. This makes Islam the second largest religion in the world after Christianity. And if you want to do business internationally or with Muslims, I think you'll find this interview to be enlightening and useful. This is Aram, the founder of Jamali Love, who I believe has the capacity and character to be a connector bridge and influencer between east and West, Muslim and non Muslim. So welcome.
Mike Koenigs [00:03:36]:
Aram. Saeed. How are you?
Eram Saeed [00:03:38]:
I'm wonderful. Thank you, Mike. It's great to be here.
Mike Koenigs [00:03:41]:
It really is. I've had an absolute pleasure with you and your daughter Natasha over the past few days. We originally met at tlc, Jack Canfield's group. We immediately connected and thought, I know there's some way we can work together and do something that brings impact to the world. So here we are.
Eram Saeed [00:04:01]:
Yes.
Mike Koenigs [00:04:01]:
Okay. So I know I touched on just a little bit already, but let's just begin with what is Jamali?
Eram Saeed [00:04:13]:
Jamali, as you said, is a beautiful word. Literally, what it means is beauty. Now, Sufis, which. Which are the mysticals, the mystics of Islam, have used to define Jamali as the beautiful aspects or attributes of the divine. Sometimes we also associate with the feminine aspects of divinity.
Mike Koenigs [00:04:39]:
And one of the things, for me, you have a framework. So part of your framework is a method for your students, who are Muslim women, to find a whole bunch of. Well, really to escape their past, to escape some big challenges they have. But talk a little bit about some of the promises you make inside of the context of the Jamali method.
Eram Saeed [00:05:06]:
Yeah. So the process is called the Jamali method. And what it does is that it helps you to cultivate and achieve some beautiful aspects in your life, such as love, dignity, confidence, wealth, freedom, change, justice, purpose, clarity, faith, leadership, community.
Mike Koenigs [00:05:29]:
Okay. And part of what. One of the reasons I wanted to have you here today is because you've got an amazing life journey. You've overcome a whole bunch of challenges, and like any great entrepreneur, you found a way to take your life experience and turn it into a product that made a huge impact and has made a huge impact on lots and lots of people so far, and we'll continue to do that. So before we get into the process and some of the systems that you developed, let's talk a little bit about your backstory, where you came from, and what it was like being you. Being raised in Pakistan as a woman in. I guess you could say I won't mention your age, but maybe you're. That's up to you.
Mike Koenigs [00:06:13]:
But, I mean, I'm in my 50s.
Eram Saeed [00:06:16]:
That's okay.
Mike Koenigs [00:06:16]:
It's all right.
Eram Saeed [00:06:17]:
I own it. Yeah, well, I own it.
Mike Koenigs [00:06:20]:
You look amazing.
Eram Saeed [00:06:21]:
Thank you. Yeah, it was actually. It was not so bad. It was, you know, considering that I didn't know any better, I was, as you mentioned, raised. I was born into an influential family, an army family. Dad was a general when he retired. I was the only sister. I had two brothers.
Eram Saeed [00:06:42]:
And from a very young age, I was aware that I was smarter than most people around me. And I was the. My brothers are going to kill me for this. But the smartest of all the siblings. I wanted to be generic.
Mike Koenigs [00:06:56]:
Sorry, guys. It's all right. All right.
Eram Saeed [00:07:00]:
Yeah. Well, not because they're boys, but because they're my siblings. You know, it's that sibling rivalry from. Gosh, ever since I could remember, I wanted to be first a genetic engineer. I was told unceremoniously by my mother, that's not going to happen. And then afterwards, I wanted to do my mba. I even got accepted into a really prestigious college. I did all the entrance things myself because my mom wasn't in favor of it.
Eram Saeed [00:07:29]:
So I kind of went behind her back to apply, got accepted, and then once she found out, she was livid. And she said no, because by that time, I was about 21, and at that time, and especially for my mom, that was really old, and she said, no, you have no option. The only thing you can do is get married. So I did, but I chose. So it was an arranged marriage, but I did have a say in it. Like, I could. I could say yes or I could say no. And so of all the proposals, the one that my parents were least interested in, because it was in Austin, Texas, outside of Pakistan, I chose that guy because I figured, hey, I could do my mba, you know, so, yeah.
Eram Saeed [00:08:18]:
And then I got married pretty much the first day, the first week, I realized, you know, it was a big oops, big mistake.
Mike Koenigs [00:08:29]:
So you didn't make a good deal?
Eram Saeed [00:08:31]:
Yeah, no, it was a mistake. It turned out to be an abusive marriage and lasted about eight years. And I had a daughter. I had my beautiful daughter Natasha, from. From that marriage, whom you have met. And, you know, in times when it got really hard, because you have to remember, when I moved to Austin, I had no family there. I had no friends there. I did not know anyone.
Eram Saeed [00:09:01]:
I was totally isolated. So. And the marriage was abusive, so I was completely dependent on a man who didn't want anything to do with me. So having Natasha was what kept me going, gave me purpose, gave me a reason to be.
Mike Koenigs [00:09:17]:
Okay, so somewhere in between here was also the moment where you decided you hated God and So explain that because I think that's an important part of your transformational journey. So what is that before we move on to what you did about it?
Eram Saeed [00:09:35]:
Yeah, well, I had started to hate God before I even got married. Because. Because I was raised in a conservative, quite religious family. You know, I asked all kinds of questions and I asked the kind of questions that I teach nowadays, but they made everybody really, really uncomfortable. And usually I was just told, this is what it is, so you need to just shut up and put up. And so what I decided, what I started to do was for everything that I thought was unjust and unfair in my life, I thought it was because of Islam and therefore I blamed God and ended up declaring to God at the age of 18 that, I hate you, I am never going to love you. I believed in God. I knew he was a very powerful being and I was probably going to get thrown in hell, but even then I was not willing to love God.
Eram Saeed [00:10:33]:
So, yeah, it was the oppression, it was the feeling of it's not my fault that I was born into this gender. And this gender is told, we're told as women that you're inferior to men. And I just couldn't accept it. I was told that women are dumb. I knew for a fact that I wasn't dumb. So all of those things just made me feel like, okay, there's no place for me in this religion. I can never find equality, justice. My voice is never going to be heard.
Eram Saeed [00:11:02]:
My dreams don't matter, my desires don't matter. So I hated God, took it out on him.
Mike Koenigs [00:11:10]:
Yeah. And I think part of the reason I thought it was important to establish this is there are many, many silenced or silent women who feel very much the same way and have no outlet, nowhere to go with this.
Eram Saeed [00:11:26]:
Well, that's why I do what I do. I am their voice.
Mike Koenigs [00:11:31]:
So that leads us to the. What you did out of it. So obviously Natasha was one of your Jamalis and also that you had to make a decision for you, but also you were then cast into a situation where you had to make a living and you discovered another one of your skill sets that you didn't know about before. So let's kind of go down the path. And my objective in doing this is really to create, to show our audience that over the course of your life, what is appeared before you is a system and a process that you use to get out of a bunch of difficult situations and then turn that into an amazing business as well. So let's just kind of go through some of the key lessons learned here. So first big job, what were the big outcomes for you?
Eram Saeed [00:12:34]:
And if I may, I neglected to say something if it's okay, because I think a lot of women, especially Muslim women, will be able to connect with that, is that while I was in my first marriage and I kept telling myself that the reason why I am staying in this abusive marriage is for the sake of my child. And I think I know a lot of women do that too. And it was one day when I got abused in front of her that it kind of just forced me to wake up. That I this little girl that I love so much and I'm so protective of her, I am teaching her through example that it's okay to be abused. It's okay to take that from a man or any other human being and she's going to grow up to do this as well. And that I'm not. This is not out of love for my daughter. It's actually my lack of courage that I'm actually a coward.
Eram Saeed [00:13:29]:
And that forced me to take the decision. And I filed for divorce a few weeks later, which was on my 30th birthday. And so, yes, Natasha was the source of my first jamali, which I would say is courage and love. And I landed. It took about a year because you have to remember I had no college education based on US standards, you may say I had a high school diploma. And I was told repeatedly that you're never going to amount to anything. I had been a homemaker, so the first year was tough. But I did land my first job, which was with Chase Manhattan Mortgage.
Eram Saeed [00:14:10]:
I kid you not, I could not even spell the word mortgage. I had no clue what first lien or second lien or what the heck liens were. But I forced myself to learn on the job. And the first few months I made zilch, no money because I didn't know how to sell loans. But then again, I learned, and I would say within eight months, it turned out that I was the highest producing loan officer for that branch and then continued to be while I kept that job.
Mike Koenigs [00:14:45]:
Yeah, and one of your big celebratory moments was when you made how much in a single month?
Eram Saeed [00:14:52]:
22, 500 in one month. That was my first paycheck after zeros, you know, not have, not making any money. I made 25, 500. So it was an eye opener for me that, wow, you know, I'm good at sales. You know, maybe I'm, maybe I'm good at selling. Maybe there's something to that so that was my first realization.
Mike Koenigs [00:15:16]:
Okay. And that later on, you know, as you've developed, your system turned into another one of your jamalis. What was that one?
Eram Saeed [00:15:26]:
It was self confidence. It was, for the first time in my life I had learned that I could lean on myself, that I could trust myself, that I didn't have to wait for a knight in shining armor or anybody else to come and rescue me. My relationship with God was still not really good at this point, but it was necessary, I think at this part in the journey to learn to rely on my own self, which is what this did.
Mike Koenigs [00:15:58]:
So if we fast forward. So I'm going to plant a couple seeds here because one of the things that you did at one point is you took a sabbatical. You went to Pakistan during the lockdown and along there, that's when you started making the videos, which turned you into a viral sensation and you started communicating a pain, a message that many related to that turned into a business. And in between there you had a couple other businesses that you built along the way. But what I want to do is just jump to a one of the examples of one of the women that you helped. Because again, the idea here is I kind of wanted to put a bookend into the type of women who were attracted to you. And you bridged a world of Muslim women who were like you in Western countries. And then also there were professional, high performing, high functioning women all over the world who just resonated with this message.
Mike Koenigs [00:17:14]:
So let's do a, a little mini case study.
Eram Saeed [00:17:19]:
Sure.
Mike Koenigs [00:17:20]:
And then we'll integrate this. That's the best way I, I could think of doing this interview with you. So why don't you tell the story of DePaul?
Eram Saeed [00:17:29]:
Yeah, sure. So by that time I was running a global telesummit on energy healing. And I realized that one of the things I loved doing was teaching other women how to grow their businesses. By that time, my business was doing multiple seven figures annually. And one thing I had become very clear about was that when you lead a passion filled life and you want to be on purpose, one of the most important things you need to have is financial independence. Without that, you're just not going to be able to do much.
Mike Koenigs [00:18:05]:
Absolutely.
Eram Saeed [00:18:06]:
Financial independence in my life had afforded me so much. I was able to do so much. So Deepal was an Eastern woman who originated from the east and was a chemist by education and by profession. But her passion was to become an energy healer. And she was really good at it too. But you know, as a lot of people have she. She was coming from a very science bank background and energy healing is woo woo. And we're still talking about about 10 years ago where it wasn't that common.
Eram Saeed [00:18:39]:
So it was difficult for her to come out with that, so to speak, come out of the closet and talk about what she was and what she wanted to do and, and then offer her services to the world. So I coached her. This was my entrepreneurship and business ship coaching. And when we launched her, she was able to generate six figures within I would say 90 days. And she has had a six figure business since then as a successful energy healer.
Mike Koenigs [00:19:13]:
And when you look at what it was that you know, the question that the audience would be asking is, okay, well what did you do? What was it that was shared? Taught that inside this Jamali method that you had built and refined for you, enabled you to reinvent yourself, move to a completely foreign land, become a successful salesperson, then become a successful entrepreneur, start your own business, you know, go from six figure to seven figure, go through a painful divorce. We didn't even talk about the second painful divorce yet. And then start transforming other women. There were some pretty significant breakthroughs, but also really realizing what they needed more than anything, which was this method.
Eram Saeed [00:20:04]:
You know, it's so interesting, Mike, I think that my own journey, as I shared with you before, along the way, I was picking these nuggets which were all Jamalis, and the Jamali method was coming through me, it was evolving through me. I was being breathed into the Jamali method, you can say. So what I had discovered up until that point, as I said, was financial independence and how important passion and purpose is. Passion is something that I have learned that, you know, our clues. Your soul is constantly giving you clues. So whatever you are passionate about is not a coincidence. So for example, at one point in my life, I was really passionate about making money. I was really passionate about becoming an entrepreneur with a seven figure business.
Eram Saeed [00:21:01]:
Well, that was a clue which was going to eventually tie into my ultimate purpose. So the Jamalis that I got from this was that you can't ignore these calls from your soul, which is passion. Whatever you're passionate about, it's not a coincidence. You need to pay attention to it and it will ultimately lead you to your purpose.
Mike Koenigs [00:21:25]:
Very good.
Eram Saeed [00:21:26]:
So does that answer your question?
Mike Koenigs [00:21:27]:
It's getting there. It's getting there.
Eram Saeed [00:21:29]:
Okay.
Mike Koenigs [00:21:30]:
And again, my goal in this is to put all the pieces together. Because inside of this, I love your journey, I love what you've done, I love how you've done it. And I like what you're doing for all these women that you've affected. So this is one of the things that you've been able to bridge is for you, you went from your basically I hate God to making a resolution and being able to help other women deal with that conflict that exists, which is knowing who you are and feeling like you say, like either are you a duck or are you an eagle? And one of the ways you bridge that is by teaching Islam properly and with stories that are undeniable. Okay, so you have the story about Prophet Muhammad's first wife. And I think that is one of the clinchers that is really important. And if more people understood this core tenet and understood like as an American, as a Westerner, as a capitalist, I'm like, oh yeah. And then as a woman, I would connect and go, oh yeah, okay.
Mike Koenigs [00:22:51]:
I wouldn't feel disempowered. So share that story.
Eram Saeed [00:22:54]:
Yeah. So along my journey as I did more research about Islam and I started to find the truth that kind of has become hijacked, but it's still there in plain sight as I was able to find it. So one of the things that had always captured my attention and my fascination was the more I studied Prophet Muhammad, the more I fell in love with him. I had by that time already been learning the principles of self development and mind sciences through my mentors and teachers here in the West. And the more I tried to look for examples of excellence in that, the more I saw that in Prophet Muhammad. So I fell more and more in love with him. And in one of those examples, I learned that his first wife, Khadija, now we're talking about almost 1500 years ago when women were considered property of men and young infant girls were killed by their parents because they were considered a disgrace. So in those times picture a lady who has been widowed twice is about, you know, in her 40s, the wealthiest entrepreneur of Arabia.
Eram Saeed [00:24:07]:
So she was in this extremely male dominated society, but she's the wealthiest businesswoman. And she was getting proposals from all these chiefs of other tribes which she would refuse because she was known as Tahira, which means the pure one, the virtuous one. She was beautiful, but she was also very kind, very, you know, she lived a very luxurious life. She was known as the Princess of Mecca, but she was very loving and kind to the poor, to the orphans. Nobody was ever turned away from her house without getting some help. And she wanted to hire someone to help her with her business. So when she asked around, she was told well, here is a young guy, he's 25 years old, Muhammad. But he's known for his honesty and his integrity.
Eram Saeed [00:25:04]:
So she hires him and he goes and does some trade for her, brings back the most profit she has ever earned. And so she thinks, you know, maybe this would be a good partner for me. And through a friend, she sends a proposal to him. So again, we're talking about 1500 years ago, and she's proposing to the man and they get married. And he worked for her. He remained in her employment even though they were very happily married, but she was the owner of the wealth. And ultimately, when he was given prophethood, she spent all of her wealth on that. Yeah, it's a great story.
Mike Koenigs [00:25:51]:
So let's.
Eram Saeed [00:25:52]:
And it's real.
Mike Koenigs [00:25:52]:
Okay. And let's move on to how this is important when it comes to a wife and her money and agency. That, as you said, this is a message that often has been hijacked.
Eram Saeed [00:26:08]:
Yes.
Mike Koenigs [00:26:09]:
So let's get into the controversial part here.
Eram Saeed [00:26:12]:
I love that. Maybe let's do it.
Mike Koenigs [00:26:15]:
Cause a few. Yes, okay.
Eram Saeed [00:26:19]:
Yeah, let's ruffle some feathers. So under Islamic law, a woman has agency. First of all, men and women are considered equal. Now, their roles are not the same, their responsibilities are not the same, but they are considered equal. And a woman has agency not just over her body, but over her property, her money. So if I am a Muslim woman, my husband is responsible for me financially. He has to take care of my financially financial needs. It's mandatory for him.
Eram Saeed [00:26:53]:
But if I am earning, which I am allowed to, I can have. Have a career, have a profession, whatever I want to do, or I can have investments, or I can inherit property from my parents, but all of that is my own. He doesn't even have the right to question me about it. Like, how much do you own? How much money do you make? He doesn't have that right. He absolutely has no right to question me how I spend that money. I could do with it what I please. If, let's say I were young mother and I had babies and, you know, for nursing the babies, I could ask him for payment. Let's say I have to stay home because I want to take care of the kids, I can ask him for payment.
Eram Saeed [00:27:34]:
So if you ask me, once I did my research and I learned the truth, what I realized was that women enjoy a really special place of privilege in Islam, which was. Which is unheard of. Even when I found this out, I was, of course, living in America. I was quite Westernized. Even for me, it Was shocking. Like, wow, I want that. I want time. I want to turn back the clock, go back to 1500 years ago.
Eram Saeed [00:28:05]:
That's really good, you know, so that's great.
Mike Koenigs [00:28:10]:
So I think this is one of those moments. Of course, if we had a fundamentalist scholar with us, I'm sure there'd be all sorts of arrows being tossed back and forth. Welcome to the world of 3 second attention spans and fewer than 20 seconds to get a prospect's attention, engage them, get to know like and trust you, and say, I want and need what you have. Let's make a deal. Introducing digital Cafe AI. A relationship building AI that will take your hard earned leads and make them feel like you're sitting down with them for a cup of coffee. Listening to their needs and responding to them with a personalized, useful, resourceful solution. It's the perfect AI team.
Mike Koenigs [00:28:55]:
A digital cafe AI does hours or days of work that normally requires an expensive team of specialists in minutes. It's the fastest, easiest automated way to get attention, engagement and trust to close bigger deals faster. A digital cafe AI is a done for you service that can be Adapted to any B2B or B2C business A. Money loves speed and time kills deals. So visit digital cafe AI to see how it will work for you. But I like to say I am a delusional optimist. I like to live in that world. And one of the reasons I think you and my wife Vivian connected is because she has been doing work in both Christian and Muslim countries, even now with Hindus in, in, in India and helping women and girls achieve agency over their bodies and ultimately earn.
Mike Koenigs [00:30:00]:
Because without having that financial independence, you don't have freedom without that ability to earn. And I think that was one of the core elements that I think is so important here. And it's one of the reasons I was like, okay, I really want to get to know you in this work and understand what it's about.
Eram Saeed [00:30:18]:
Yeah. And I'm not the only one talking about this. There are Muslim scholars that are raising their voice on this too. Of course there are fewer, but they're there. And the more people like us talk about it and the louder we are, the more Muslim women learn about their rights and they're rising up too.
Mike Koenigs [00:30:38]:
Okay, so I think there's one more personal lesson that I want to cover here. It was your second marriage and what happened the second boo boo, how you turn the bulldog into the Chihuahua. Because again, there was a Jamali there that has helped you be a leader and a teacher for so many Women in the same situation. And then we'll get into a few more of these case studies, some more of these stories, but. All right. You did it again.
Eram Saeed [00:31:09]:
Yeah, I did it.
Mike Koenigs [00:31:10]:
So let's. Apparently, choice in men, not so good at this point. We'll own that, shall we?
Eram Saeed [00:31:19]:
But did learn my lesson. We had more lessons to learn. So, yeah, when I got divorced and Natasha was about four and a half, I was doing great. I was making good money, life was good. But I was. I constantly was being told that you have to. You can't live alone, you know, you have to have a husband and you should get married. And of course, I believe.
Mike Koenigs [00:31:42]:
Were these voices in your head or other people?
Eram Saeed [00:31:45]:
Oh, other people. And my head, too. So I. This time I met someone in Dallas from my culture and seemed like a great choice. He absolutely adored my daughter and so seemed like a great choice, and I married him. That one turned out to be an abusive marriage as well and ended in physical assault. So when I was now I was going to go through yet another divorce, and now I had not one, but two daughters. And I had my divorce case, which involved a custody battle.
Eram Saeed [00:32:23]:
I had my divorce attorney sued me because I ran out of funds to pay them. I had to file bankruptcy. So that's the third lawsuit I had to file bankruptcy to get rid of my divorce attorneys. And then number four, since he assaulted me, there was a criminal case in which I was the prime witness and I was unrepresented in these three cases. So the attorney that was representing my then husband was known as a fierce attorney because he had never lost a case. So he was known as the Bulldog of Dallas. And when he lost, so, yay, I did win my case because I was unrepresented and I was, you know, all by myself. He was then given the nickname the Chihuahua of Dallas.
Eram Saeed [00:33:17]:
So that was also very, very interesting stage in my life because if you haven't seen Texas judges, oh, God, they are formidable. They're scary. So going in front of a judge every time with just a blank, blank piece of paper, and then not knowing what to say and what those legal. That mumbo jumbo is. And every time the judge would yell at me, ma'am, get yourself a lawyer. And I would say, you, Honor, I have no money. Nobody's pro bono is willing to take me. I don't know what to do except to keep showing up to let you know I care.
Eram Saeed [00:33:58]:
And that's all I can do. And so I would end up crying in court. It was such a scary time, you know, I was called a terrorist in open court because of the fam. The ties that my family has to Pakistan army. And not, you know, it was not.
Mike Koenigs [00:34:17]:
And these are the years when it was a little tricky for Muslim in America.
Eram Saeed [00:34:21]:
Yes. And I was the mother of two daughters, so it was terrifying. And looking back, I can tell you this was the time that I developed the most resilience, strength and faith, which are my new, my jamalis that I picked up at that time. You know, strength is not built during easy times. That's when you get to enjoy the strength you have built. Strength gets built. And same goes for faith. When you are right smack in the middle of the darkest part, the darkest night of your soul, that's when strength is built.
Mike Koenigs [00:35:01]:
Good for you. Good for you. So let's move on to one of the stories because I think what ended up coalescing here is. And we've got to tell. Let's tell the ramsha story. And then I want to talk about you building your influence when you really started to rock it. So maybe do we want to do that one first? Like, how did you get to be so influential and get this following that enabled you to reach so many women who then ended up buying your courses and start following you and go through these transformations? So I think that's the path we'll take because I think this is a good time to lead that, because it's a huge part of what some of these women want to learn from you is not only your journey and how you manage to survive and thrive through these really difficult circumstances, but then build a business, build a following and be able to communicate what was happening. So let's just go back quickly.
Mike Koenigs [00:36:01]:
When you took your break, you went back to Pakistan and you started making videos that created a movement.
Eram Saeed [00:36:11]:
Totally unplanned. It was. That's not what I was intending to do. I just figured in the middle of lockdown, what if something happens to me? What if I die? You know, my daughters may need me in the future. And so I decided, well, you know, not a lot going on. Might as well make some videos that'll be there in case they. In case I'm no longer around and they ever need me, they'll have something to. To use.
Mike Koenigs [00:36:43]:
So these are like little Jamali lessons that you started to post that exactly resonated with.
Eram Saeed [00:36:50]:
Clearly, you know how to deal with. You know exactly how to deal with hard times, how to get through challenging times and how to, you know, don't be a victim. From victim to victor, those kinds of lessons how to build a. How to cultivate and build really strong faith, not just on yourself, but with God. How to make God Allah your best friend. So those were again, I was, in my mind, I was thinking, these are just going to be used by my daughter sometime in the future. And I made a deal with God at that time, a secret deal, that if I get messages from 10 women over a period of six months that I helped impact their lives in a positive way, then you know, the deal is that you're going to take care of my daughters if I die. That was my secret deal.
Eram Saeed [00:37:38]:
And within, I think it was two months, it just blew up 100 million views within 60 days. It was crazy numbers and undeniable. I mean, you know, God has a great sense of humor, you know, because he prayed 10. Okay, I'll send you some. But I knew that, oh my God, I am fulfilling this great need. The messages were heartbreaking. And that's when I began to realize that, oh my God, I need to start a coaching business for Muslim women.
Mike Koenigs [00:38:18]:
Okay, so at that point you got a following. So how did you Bridge the 100 million or so views and millions of followers to being able to bring them into a, I assume a free course at first and then later on a paid course? What. How long did it take for you to gain some traction where this actually turned into a business then into what it is?
Eram Saeed [00:38:45]:
Yeah, great question. So frankly, the first year, because this was such a new phenomenon. First of all, I was not really a big marketer on social media. That was new for me. I had always had a list and that's how I did my business. Which by that time it had been.
Mike Koenigs [00:39:01]:
Over a decade and that had been like your teleseminar list.
Eram Saeed [00:39:04]:
Before that business, it had been a multimillion dollar business and I was comfy. You know, I liked what I was doing there. This was a brand new animal for me. Also the Pakistani market, I was told has, is never going to invest in a self development course. And it's in dollars and it's online. Forget it. It's just not going to happen. So I was the first one to start that particular industry.
Eram Saeed [00:39:34]:
The first course I created, Mike, I wanted to see like, okay, I'm. Let me see if I can help to transform their lives. I like quick results. Like you, I did not want to do a six month or a one year long course. I wanted to see if I can transform them in 30 days. So I picked what I thought were the most downtrodden and the most oppressed. Widows and divorcees. And I offered a free course in the beginning just to see.
Eram Saeed [00:40:02]:
Just to kind of get proof of concept. And I think there were about 35 women in that course. And every single one of them had astounding results. And then I launched the paid product. The same one, basically. Essentially the same one, but now paid. And so I would say it was maybe a year and a half into running it as just kind of a hobby. Just trying to see what the heck is this.
Eram Saeed [00:40:29]:
Yeah, I turned it into a business.
Mike Koenigs [00:40:31]:
Seems like an appropriate timeline. So let's go to, you know, your clientele, though they weren't just Pakistani. You suddenly were communicating a message that resonated with Muslim women. I know. I've looked at testimonials from New Zealand, and here in the United States, you've had lots of professionals from all over the world, Middle east, again, there's a million Muslim women. Let's just say. I mean, it's, It's. It's a big audience.
Eram Saeed [00:41:02]:
Billion, yeah.
Mike Koenigs [00:41:03]:
Or a billion. There you go. Sorry about that. Whoa. Yeah, that's the B.
Eram Saeed [00:41:07]:
Just a minor. Just a few zeros.
Mike Koenigs [00:41:09]:
So. And you can imagine there's a lot who are feeling the way you had felt and didn't have hope or a way out. So talk about Ramsha, because she was. Is a significant influencer herself. Big following, and she had her own stuff. So why did she show up? How did she find you and what happened?
Eram Saeed [00:41:33]:
Yeah, Ramcha is one of my favorite success stories. She's such a bubbly, just such a beautiful personality. Yes. As you said, she has a huge following. She's actually an engineer by education, and she. I think she has about 1.3 million of her own followers. She was a pretty devout Muslim, but she wanted to heal her trauma. She wanted to also get that connection, the spiritual connection that she felt she was missing, even though she was really good about the ritualistic aspects of Islam.
Eram Saeed [00:42:10]:
And when she watched my videos, she felt, okay, she's got it, and I want to get that too. So she took my course, and it was really interesting because she told me that she. She's a very aware. You know, she's in her 20s, so she is. She knows and understands the value of self development, trauma healing, all of those things. And she had gotten help in the past. She had taken courses, she had done all of that, but it didn't get her results. So when she took my course, she was able to heal her trauma.
Eram Saeed [00:42:46]:
She was able to understand, recognize her limiting beliefs, and then completely turn them around. It's one of the things I teach. And it was so important for me, Mike, because when I saw the kind of influence that she has, she is a role model for so many young girls and women in India, both Hindu and Muslims. And for her, it was so important for her to break free of whatever it was that was holding her back and to really go and impact the world in a big way, which is what she's doing. She just by the way, had a baby last week. I'm so excited for her.
Mike Koenigs [00:43:23]:
I saw a video, what, six days after. So it's like, wow, she looked great. Yeah.
Eram Saeed [00:43:29]:
And you know what makes me so happy is that she gave birth to a daughter. She's going to be such a powerful, strong role model for her baby girl. You know, it's. That just warms my heart so much because our children learn from how we are and how we be, not by what we say.
Mike Koenigs [00:43:50]:
You know, that is a perfect transition to Natasha. So she's been here with you as we've been working together, gotten to know her. She's really, really, really smart. She's in so many ways a keeper for you, keeping you on track. She's persuasive, she's really funny, she's gotten involved in the coaching. And I'd like you to explain the moment, one of your great jamalis with her, which is when she recognized you on your 50th birthday, what happened? And also why working with her is so important. And when you think about this business, how lucky you are to have evolved and developed where you are right now, to have earned this independence, having earned her respect and the fact that, look, having a 20something son or daughter want to work with you, that, that's an accomplishment in, in itself.
Eram Saeed [00:44:58]:
I hear you.
Mike Koenigs [00:44:59]:
I know this, okay? I know this from personal experience. So tell us about your 50th birthday and the moment when you had that huge connection, when she recognized something in you that maybe you didn't see in yourself.
Eram Saeed [00:45:12]:
Yeah. Well, you know how our kids are, Mike. Most of the times when you want to talk to them about something, they're just like, oh God. And even though the world saw me as this motivational speaker and a coach and they were vying to get time with me, my daughters, you know, couldn't care less. So one of the guilt that I always dealt with, and I think this is probably going to resonate with your listeners if they're working moms, we always wonder that, you know, we have this guilt, have I been a good enough mom? You know, Am I a bad mom or was I a bad mom?
Mike Koenigs [00:45:47]:
You know, dads have it too. We have it too, trust me.
Eram Saeed [00:45:51]:
Well, and you know, for me, I guess maybe I had a little bit more going on because I was the one that got divorced twice and I, you know, the broken home thing and made poor choices, all that. And so Natasha, on my 50th birthday, threw me this surprise birthday party. I was not allowed to come downstairs because she booked a makeup artist, a photographer, hairdresser and everything. And, and it was everybody that I loved and cared about. My family, my friends, they were all invited. I had no clue she was doing this behind the scenes. And she had decorated the whole house with my favorite flowers. And I just broke into tears, you know, and then I saw this post that, you know, I shared with you and she had written about how she considers me to be her role model.
Eram Saeed [00:46:45]:
And I don't know, for a parent, I think that's it, man, that's like nothing else compares to that to, to, to have your 20 something daughter tell you that you're my role model. And you know, as you know, she's an assistant coach in my business. She's now coaching women my age. She's teaching them all these beautiful Jamali principles and the Jamali Method how to lead a beautiful balanced life of faith and abundance.
Mike Koenigs [00:47:18]:
Well, what I just realized as I was listening to you is this is one of those instances where maybe using social media as a parent or an adult, and when she saw the effects that this tool was having on other people and what it did for you in developing and creating your own Jamalis, your own freedoms, your own own capabilities, and then she wanted that for herself as well. I mean, it's, it's really pretty, pretty remarkable. So I think this is a good time to talk a little bit about, you know, that that product at the time was Eagle Tribe that the two of you developed and built. And then if you fast forward into now, the Jamali method is really divided into three programs. And there's this all at Jamali Love is where the main site is. But why don't you talk about the three programs and what you're delivering inside of each of those.
Eram Saeed [00:48:21]:
So they're basically three levels to work with me, work with us. The first one is Jamali Freedom. So that's what used to be the Eagle Tribe. And this is where you learn all these principles, the Jamalis that help you to have clarity, confidence and independence. After that is the second level where, which is called Jamali.
Mike Koenigs [00:48:50]:
And what Natasha says is getting out the gunk. You got to get out the gunk first.
Eram Saeed [00:48:54]:
Yes. So this is where we work. We. We teach you and we work with you on getting, you know, rid of the gunk, trauma, limiting beliefs, and everything that is holding you back. And in a way, you're kind of like a captive. You're in a cage, and this gives you freedom, so you're free of that. And for some people, it's a great level. They do this and they have freedom, and it's wonderful and they can continue on.
Eram Saeed [00:49:24]:
The second level to work with us is Jamali purpose. This is where for me, it becomes really, really, really fun and exciting, because now that you have become free, you can follow your passion and find your full expression and your purpose. And for some people, it's starting your own business. For some people, if you're a high performer, it's is finding that right profession for you that you are going to love being in for the rest of your life. So, and then the third level is Jamali leadership. This is where you can be fully integrated in service, where you can refresh, reinvent, restart. You work with me one on one, and we work together in person, and I help people experience a major breakthrough.
Mike Koenigs [00:50:21]:
Yeah. And you have. What do you call your breakthrough days? Is that what they're. How these begin?
Eram Saeed [00:50:27]:
Yes.
Mike Koenigs [00:50:27]:
And that's when you're meeting with people for like three days and you're going deep. So this is one of those. This is as long as it lasts until you're too busy, and then you've got the next high quality problem, which is scaling further or creating more Natashas, you know, having your certification programs and being able to replicate yourself.
Eram Saeed [00:50:47]:
Yeah.
Mike Koenigs [00:50:48]:
So congratulations.
Eram Saeed [00:50:49]:
Well, thank you very much. Thank you. It's a movement, you know, it is a Jamali movement. Beautiful movement.
Mike Koenigs [00:50:57]:
All right, so one of the things that we worked on over the past couple days, it's just some tools to give away for my listeners. And also, I think I wanted to put in an ask for you. So I'm gonna tell share my ask for my audience right now, which is you want to reach more Muslim professional women and entrepreneurs, and you're looking for more platforms to get on.
Eram Saeed [00:51:26]:
Yes.
Mike Koenigs [00:51:27]:
So I urge anyone with any connections or relationships to head over to Jamali Love and click on contact and send a message and say, I have a platform. So it could be a podcast, it could be a stage, it could be an audience you can do a webinar in front of, and you've got a great presentation with lots of Lessons, lots of transformations. And so let's just call that step one. That's a big ask. Because if you're going to change the world like you already are on a bigger level and make the Jamali Love movement even larger, you need some help to get there.
Eram Saeed [00:52:04]:
Yes.
Mike Koenigs [00:52:04]:
So that's my ask for you.
Eram Saeed [00:52:06]:
Thank you.
Mike Koenigs [00:52:06]:
But why don't you talk a little bit about some of the free goodies that have been prepared that you're giving away and that will introduce more people to your work and the tools and resources.
Eram Saeed [00:52:16]:
Yeah, I'd love to. So one is our the masterclass, which is the leadership masterclass. Jamali Love, Freedom and Purpose. And we will share with you 10 Jamalis. There's the Jamali Path Leadership Guide. You also will get Transform your. It's one of our Jamali exercises where you will be able to transform your most painful past trauma within 15 minutes. It works wonders.
Eram Saeed [00:52:48]:
It's amazing. You'll also get the Jamali Gratitude Journal.
Mike Koenigs [00:52:53]:
That's a great way just to get into the right mindset. So you just head on over to Jamali Love and then you can download all the free goodies. So before we finish up today, is there anything else that you want to say or add or something I should have asked you that. I didn't.
Eram Saeed [00:53:12]:
Just one thing, you know, I shared with you before also that there's a quote that the Western woman is going to change the world. Well, that's already happening. And I have always, you know, for the past decade been adding to that. Respectfully, that, yes, first she will help her sister in the east and together they will change the world. You know, because we're talking about a billion women who are underserved, who, who have not risen yet. They need to. So, yes, help me in, in spreading this message because the world needs this. The world needs Muslim women to rise up.
Mike Koenigs [00:53:53]:
I agree with you. And I also want to give a couple shout outs to some people who I think are very important, who helped make this possible, this connection with you and me. One of them, of course, is Chris Atwood.
Eram Saeed [00:54:05]:
Yes.
Mike Koenigs [00:54:06]:
One of my favorite people. And of course, yep, Janet Atwood. Amazing. Ken Honda was present while we were talking at the TLC meeting. And of course, if it weren't for Jack Canfield creating that amazing place, we wouldn't have had this environment to connect in in the first place. I just want to give shout outs to people who matter to both of us.
Eram Saeed [00:54:29]:
Yes. I love all of them.
Mike Koenigs [00:54:31]:
So with that, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to say this is capability amplifier. Definitely a different episode than you may be used to, but I felt so strongly I wanted to share someone very unique, very special, very different with you and also a completely different journey. And the smartest, best thing you can do is head on over to Jamali Love again. If you've got any connections or relationships that'll help Erum get to her next level and share her Jamalis, that would be wonderful. And with that, let's say goodbye to everyone. Make sure you like subscribe, share this with anyone you can. Let's say goodbye Aram.
Mike Koenigs [00:55:08]:
See you. Thank you so much for listening and watching. Bye.
