Chemistry For Your Life

Melissa and Jam discuss the curious habit of putting a lid on a pot in order to boil water. Does it help? Does it speed things up? If so, why?

Show Notes

Melissa and Jam discuss the curious habit of putting a lid on a pot in order to boil water. Does it help? Does it speed things up? If so, why?


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What is Chemistry For Your Life?

A podcast that helps you understand the fascinating chemistry hidden in your everyday life.

Have you ever wondered why onions make you cry? Or how soap gets your hands clean? What really is margarine, or why do trees change colors in the fall? Melissa is a chemist, and to answer these questions she started a podcast, called Chemistry for your life!

In each episode Melissa explains the chemistry behind one of life’s mysteries to Jam, who is definitely not a chemist, but she explains it in a way that is easy to understand, and totally fascinating.

If you’re someone who loves learning new things, or who wonders about the way the world works, then give us a listen.

Melissa:

Hey. I'm Melissa.

Jam:

And I'm Jam.

Melissa:

And I'm a chemist.

Jam:

And I'm not.

Melissa:

And welcome to Chemistry For Your Life.

Jam:

The podcast that helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.

Melissa:

Jam, what's up? What's up? What's up? What's up?

Jam:

Dude, not a lot. What's up with you?

Melissa:

You know what I was just thinking about and then I'm really excited about?

Jam:

What's that?

Melissa:

Okay. Well, I'm a scientist. That's the whole Hey. Okay.

Jam:

So why are you just not telling me this?

Melissa:

That's the whole basis of our podcast, but I felt like I needed to preface what I was about to say with that. Uh-huh. So I really like, certain types of data, especially if it's already available to me and I don't have to analyze

Jam:

Yes.

Melissa:

And on our podcast page, there is

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

Data.

Jam:

Yep. And

Melissa:

I've been creeping on the data and checking things out, and it's been really fun. And we have listeners in, like, 20 countries besides the United States.

Jam:

Yeah. Which is pretty great. If you're one of those listeners in a different country, us up on social media. Let us know that you're listening.

Melissa:

Yeah. Say hi to us. I'm so excited. There's people in Mexico, in Canada, in Sweden, which is the best because that's where my favorite hockey player is from. We and we have Australia and Mongolia.

Melissa:

That is so cool. Mongolia, say hey to us. South Korea, give us a what's up. I'm so excited about this. This is so fun to me to watch it spread.

Jam:

Yeah. It's pretty crazy. It's it's also cool because it's, like, 1 or 2 or 3 in in this country. It's not like we're, like, Gone crazy yet? Mhmm.

Jam:

But it's kinda cool to think, like, man, there's 1 person there, so it'd be cool to hear who you are. Like, there's 1 person person 1 or 2 people in these different countries. So let us know who you are.

Melissa:

Let us know you are say hi so that we can say hi back and be so excited for new friends. Woo. Anyway, I just got really Hyped about that. I've been like, oh my gosh. Look at all this fun informational data.

Melissa:

I just wanna look at it and break it down and think about it.

Jam:

I have a a kind of funny story for me that happened this morning. I we had we didn't know this was gonna happen. I think I think my wife knew, but, we didn't we weren't all in the know that An exterminator was gonna come this morning.

Melissa:

Mhmm. And

Jam:

so he showed up, and he doesn't need us really do anything. He just rang the doorbell, I guess, to let us know. And so we normally would, you know, put the dogs inside and stuff.

Melissa:

Mhmm.

Jam:

And so, he just started doing his thing, spraying. You know? He comes every quarter, and so it's preventative. And, also, have some stuff that, like it's in older homes. We wanna make sure that there's not any termites.

Jam:

And so Mhmm. Just a good idea. So he started going walking around the house, doing his thing on the outside, and he went to the backyard. And, both of me and then one of my roommates who lives in a different part of the house were getting ready. And, because we didn't know he was gonna come, My roommate said that he was getting ready and was definitely naked and definitely looked out the window and definitely saw The exterminator and you know, didn't expect that he needed to have his window closed because just to the backyard.

Jam:

And so pretty sure that the exterminator got a little bit of a A show. So so it was a funny and not super, usual morning

Melissa:

Now is your roommate okay I mean, is he the person that's heartbroken that's that that happened?

Jam:

I don't know. I think I I guess no one would pick that thing to happen, but I think he can take those kind of situations in dried and make them into pretty funny stories.

Melissa:

So Yeah. Can you imagine just looking because that would be even better.

Jam:

That would be. I don't know. I haven't heard heard the whole thing. I just heard this update via text earlier.

Melissa:

Oh, man.

Jam:

But, anyways, that was my morning.

Melissa:

That's good.

Jam:

What's happening in your world other than the the stats stuff?

Melissa:

Not a whole lot. You know? I'm just I'm I'm here in Denton, and I'm working In my last few days of research without classes starting yet Uh-huh. And just trying to make the most of my time before I before it gets crazy again. So

Jam:

Awesome.

Melissa:

It's just been good. Even keel. Easygoing. Yeah. Yeah.

Jam:

Very cool. What is the thing that I'm supposed to learn today.

Melissa:

Well, though and I mentioned this in our last episode.

Jam:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's right.

Melissa:

We gave a

Jam:

little bit of a tease.

Melissa:

The idea Uh-huh. For this Came to me when I was with my sister and brother-in-law, and he was making us dinner. He makes this really good lobster pasta, and He put on some water to boil for the pasta, and he threw the lid on there. And I said, Do you know why people put lids on pots while they boil? And he had an idea of what it might be.

Melissa:

But Uh-huh. Now I'm asking you.

Jam:

Okay.

Melissa:

Why do people put lids on the pots when they're boiling water?

Jam:

Okay. Good question. Okay. My initial thought, I think, is just that, like, your your heat source when you're blowing some of these on the bottom and Heat rises, and it feels kinda like if you just left it open the whole time that it would take longer to boil. And it feels like maybe the heat would dissipate a little bit more Because then the the top is open and it would, like obviously, everywhere else is room temperature, so would it, like, kind of Cool.

Jam:

Well, one part's being heated with the other part cool. So I kinda just thought, like, if I put a lid on it, it Prevents that?

Melissa:

Traps the heat, basically.

Jam:

Yeah. Trap yeah. Traps it, but also, like because, like, if you put a lid on, then you take it off, you'll see, like, the Steam or whatever the conversation. Mhmm. But it's like, okay.

Jam:

Definitely something is going on. Yes. So it's if I can keep a lid on that something that's going on, Then maybe it'll boil faster.

Melissa:

Okay. Well, I'm not gonna tell you whether or not it will boil faster or whether or not your feelings are right, but let's dive into what's going on. There's something going on that you see.

Jam:

Okay.

Melissa:

Do you know what boiling point is? What is the definition of a boiling point?

Jam:

The temperature at which, substance boils. Is that it?

Melissa:

That's a little bit Like, when you say, what is resistance? And the answer is, like, the act of resisting. Yeah.

Jam:

Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa:

Yeah. That's what you just gave me.

Jam:

That is kinda it. But that's, like, that's all I know. I mean, that's my honest

Melissa:

That's your honest answer. I

Jam:

took it. Yeah.

Melissa:

Resisting. So boiling point is that boil that you see, everybody knows a boiling is. That is what happens when the vapor pressure of the liquid substance

Jam:

Uh-huh.

Melissa:

Is the same as the atmospheric pressure.

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

So Just living here on the planet, you look mind blown.

Jam:

I just saw something, but keep going.

Melissa:

About this?

Jam:

Yes. We'll yeah. It's related.

Melissa:

Okay. Do you you wanna share it now?

Jam:

Well, I just was thinking about, a moment ago before we started recording, we're talking about how I have family that lives in Bolivia.

Melissa:

Uh-huh.

Jam:

They live in a super high altitude area.

Melissa:

Yes.

Jam:

Guess what? What? The boiling point is a lot lower.

Melissa:

I was literally gonna Ask if you knew that.

Jam:

It's freaking crazy. They have to change a lot of stuff when they cook, and there's, like Mhmm. It would affect everything. I haven't thought about, like, what if I what if I go there in a few years in a 90, make coffee. It'll adjust I have to adjust some stuff that I do.

Jam:

Yes. Just like sorry. Sorry. Yeah. I like I realized all of a sudden, like, woah.

Melissa:

Yes.

Jam:

It's gonna I'm gonna understand this better here in a little bit.

Melissa:

Well, I was gonna ask you about that. I was gonna say, now that you know the definition, do you think water always has the same boiling point? Because if I said, What is the boiling point of water? Everyone always says

Jam:

212 Fahrenheit. Yeah. Or 100 Celsius.

Melissa:

That's what all 1212 Fahrenheit is what all the non scientists say. I Don't know the boiling point of water in Fahrenheit off the top of my head ever.

Jam:

Oh, really? Yeah. 100 Celsius, though. Right?

Melissa:

Right. So we live

Jam:

nice and easy.

Melissa:

Right. We live in the world of Science where so to us, room temperature is 25, water boils at a 100, water freezes at 0, and those are facts. And All my

Jam:

so nice. Those numbers are so convenient. Man.

Melissa:

They are.

Jam:

I love that. I wish I knew Celsius better.

Melissa:

All my numbers of what things boil at and all of that is in a different category in my mind than what we're gonna set the thermostat to.

Jam:

Yeah.

Melissa:

I wish that we went by Celsius and everything, but it did come in handy when are in Europe because I could figure out the temperature relative to that. I would do some quick conversions and say, that's probably this. Yeah. Yeah. So I've

Jam:

been in a lot of different countries where I've had to do that, and I like, every time I have to reteach myself the quick method, the, like, quick in your brain method to get a rough Guess of what it is.

Melissa:

Mhmm.

Jam:

And every time I travel, I always choose again. It's like, I have to relearn that. It just never stays. Yeah.

Melissa:

Yeah. So Everyone always says, yeah. Water boils at a 100 or water boils at 212, and that is right if you're at sea level.

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

But it's not exactly It doesn't change by a ton.

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

But because boiling point, the definition is when vapor pressure meets atmospheric pressure

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

That changes based on what atmospheric pressure is.

Jam:

Yes. Okay. So at a at a higher altitude, is it higher atmosphere pressure or lower?

Melissa:

Lower. So in atmospheric pressure, You can think of it as all the pressure from the atmosphere of the Earth. Mhmm. So whatever gases and everything are up above us Pushing down on the Earth Okay. Or coming down on the Earth.

Melissa:

Uh-huh. So all the pressure that's on us when we're walking and talking and all of that, If you're at sea level, that's 1 atmosphere of pressure.

Jam:

Okay.

Melissa:

So that's the standardization Your standard. I don't know if standardization is a word. This they standardize boiling points with the one atmosphere pretty much. And it doesn't change just a ton, but it is enough to change the way you cook or whatever.

Jam:

Okay.

Melissa:

Okay. Another way to think of it that's a little bit easier than when vapor pressure meets atmospheric pressure. This was a a wave that my adviser gave me to think about it is that, Basically, the water molecules that are turning into gas have to have enough pressure to push the atmosphere up.

Jam:

Okay. That does help me. And I was like, I was just vapor pressure Didn't mean much to me

Melissa:

yet. Right. And vapor pressure is just the pressure that's from as a result of the water that's turning to gas and covering above that surface.

Jam:

So so at a higher altitude, because there's, like, literally less Atmosphere because you're up higher. Mhmm. Like, some of the atmosphere is actually below you now

Melissa:

Yes.

Jam:

Compared to, you know, where other parts of the Earth.

Melissa:

Yep.

Jam:

So there's just less pressure?

Melissa:

Yes. Woah. Less atmospheric pressure.

Jam:

So that vapor's like Alright. We're ready.

Melissa:

We can push. It's a little bit easier to push now.

Jam:

Interesting. Gosh. Dang it. Okay. Wow.

Melissa:

So now you know that Mhmm. And you know the definition of boiling point, what do you think Happens when you put the lid on the pot. What are we doing when we put the lid on the pot that could possibly change the way the water boils?

Jam:

Are we Decreasing the atmospheric pressure. Are we putting a barrier, I guess, or something like that? No.

Melissa:

Decreasing the atmospheric pressure would be using a vacuum to remove air that's causing pressure.

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

We just

Jam:

your vacuum cleaner and just put it right on top of the right on top of the pot, and you're good to go?

Melissa:

Yes. Please do that. Please do that. Actually, we have this construction called a rotovap. It's a row it rotates and it evaporates liquid by boiling them off, but you can hook it up to a vacuum and suck the pressure out so that it boils at lower temperatures.

Jam:

Interesting.

Melissa:

We have a video of that that we can put on Instagram that you can look at and So Uh-huh. That is one way to make water boil faster. If we could vacuum put it under a vacuum, suck away all the atmospheric pressure, it would boil way lower. And I have used that technique in my life before. We do not have that in our

Jam:

In the sound of the lids doing. That was yeah. Okay.

Melissa:

Not what the lids are doing.

Jam:

So I do not know.

Melissa:

But wouldn't it be funny if we did Yeah. Like a vacuum cleaner? Yeah. Okay. So you don't know.

Melissa:

So I'll tell you. Yeah. I wanted to see if you could there's theories in learning that say if you try to synthesize an answer before giving the answer, you'll learn the given answer better Even if you're wrong.

Jam:

I believe that. I do wish I could have landed on it somehow by some miracle. Just logiced it out, figured it out, but, I don't know.

Melissa:

Well, you're close. You're focusing on changing the atmospheric pressure. But the other thing that you can change is when vapor pressure meets atmospheric pressure so you can change the vapor pressure.

Jam:

Okay.

Melissa:

And the way you change the vapor pressure is by putting a lid on so that the vapor isn't going anywhere.

Jam:

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because this it it condenses in on the lid. That's what we're really keeping in.

Melissa:

Well, the lid keeps the All the water vapor there in the pot. Uh-huh. So there's a higher concentration of water vapor in that area. Mhmm. And as the water vapor pressure the water vapor increases.

Melissa:

The water vapor pressure increases, and it's going to get to atmospheric pressure faster.

Jam:

That is Really cool. Is there a figure or number or estimate of, like, how much faster a pot of water could boil With a lid on versus with it off?

Melissa:

I actually looked into that to try and find out, I think.

Jam:

It'd be kinda cool if it was, like, Quantifiable. Like, 5 minutes faster or something like that.

Melissa:

Well, I think that one thing I read said it was, like, a minute faster. Uh-huh. But it would depend probably a lot on the amount of water that you have Okay. And the headspace between where the water is and the, lid is. And so I think there's, so many other factors, so many other things that could come into play that it would not be reasonable or worth it to quantify that in our kitchens.

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

I think that you can quantify that If you want, in a lab, they probably have I'm thinking I feel like I remember some knowledge about that. If I'm thinking, I wanna boil this At this temperature, I would have to put it at this pressure.

Jam:

Yeah.

Melissa:

But I don't think it really would be significant.

Jam:

Yeah. I guess it's helpful to know that if it's not significant, it's at least a little bit faster. It's worth doing. It's like Mhmm. If you're making spaghetti or whatever, you gotta boil a big pot of water.

Jam:

Just go and put that lid on because, you know, it'll at least be, like, maybe 30 seconds to a minute faster.

Melissa:

Right. And if it's a big pot, it might be even faster than that.

Jam:

Yeah. I had a situation one time where I was boiling water forever. Like, I just never got there. I don't know what the heck was going on. It was like Did you have a load?

Jam:

Crazy? No. I didn't have a load on it. That was

Melissa:

That's funny.

Jam:

Part I also had one of those, like, Weird things with holes in it inside of it because I was planning on Oh. Which might had an effect. I don't know.

Melissa:

Probably not. Did you put salt in it?

Jam:

Mhmm.

Melissa:

Well, that's the whole other thing that could change the way water boils that we're not gonna talk about today.

Jam:

Not this time, but in a future time, maybe something's like

Melissa:

We could probably do it in the next few. Yeah. But it's not It's a whole other topic, so not enough for today, but I bet if you hold on to that forever Boyle story

Jam:

Okay.

Melissa:

You'll have a little insight into what happened when we talk about

Jam:

I'm holding on to the story. I was it threw off our entire evening dinner plan that time. So I was like, what? Am I crazy? Like, is science broken right now?

Jam:

This is supposed to work.

Melissa:

Science was working exactly the way it was supposed to. That's funny. Okay. So that's it. So now now tell me what you learned.

Jam:

Okay. So The better definition for boiling point is not what I said earlier, but it is atmospheric sorry. It's when, Oh, dang it. When vapor pressure Mhmm. Reaches a point that it can would you say the word overcome?

Jam:

The atmospheric pressure on it? It's roughly equal. Roughly equal. Okay. It gets to the the vapor pressure can build up.

Jam:

As the water's getting hotter, It can build up to a point where it is equal to the atmospheric pressure. Mhmm. So that's what boiling point is. And so that comes into play because Whenever we put a lid on the pot Mhmm. The vapor, they were referencing when we say vapor pressure isn't Going anywhere and escaping and Mhmm.

Jam:

And, you know, going out into the air in in our homes. And so if we keep that in, then it builds up its Pressure faster because it's not also losing a little bit of it at the same time.

Melissa:

Mhmm.

Jam:

And so then it becomes equal with the atmospheric pressure A little bit sooner?

Melissa:

Yes. Nice. That's it.

Jam:

That was a that was a fun one. And also a simple one too. I feel like There was not much of a chance of me failing after explaining what, what was not that challenging of a of a idea.

Melissa:

Yeah. Well but, also, I do wanna say that when things evaporate, there's an evaporative cooling effect. So it's Possible as the vapor is leaving, it's also losing heat. And so there are other things that are coming into play besides that solely, I think. Yeah.

Melissa:

But That is probably the biggest reason that it is effective to put your lid on your pot.

Jam:

And it's like I mean, I guess, room temperature is not super low compared to, like, If you were outside boiling water in the dead of winter in Antarctica, I think probably the I bet the, like, external temperature would have a much bigger effect. But we're talking like Normal boiling I mean, norm normal room temperature and standard boiling point ish stuff, and you're not in some weird part of the world, Then it seems like it'd be the biggest contributor instead of just like, oh, no. This 75 degrees kitchen It's cooling me down really fast. Like, that seems unlikely.

Melissa:

Also, they there's probably it would probably make a way bigger difference if you were boiling that Water at the bottom of the ocean. Like, if you could somehow put yourself in a pressurized bubble so that your body is safe Uh-huh. And then put an air bubble around the pot boiling water. There'd be so much pressure at the bottom of the ocean

Jam:

It's true.

Melissa:

That that lid would probably really matter, And I bet it would be very hard for the water to boil Yeah. Under there. But that's a weird imagination that just came into my mind when you were talking about

Jam:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Crazy places to boil water. It'd be so cool if we could have a little, like, art of someone boiling water at the bottom of the ocean. Like fish like

Jam:

It's so

Melissa:

crazy that if

Jam:

if you could get at the Balvin Ocean and have, like, a pressure vessel and stuff like that, and all you do once you get there is just try to boil some water.

Melissa:

But you'd have to boil the Outside of the pressurized vessel.

Jam:

Oh, yeah. You'd have

Melissa:

to be pressurized to be safe, but the water would need to to for the exuberantoric to feel Full pressure.

Jam:

Interesting.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Jam:

Thing. There's probably some better things to do at the bottom of the ocean than

Melissa:

Yeah. The ocean is crazy cool.

Jam:

Yeah.

Melissa:

The first time I ever went Goop diving, I thought, what am I doing here in this water Yeah. Where Sharks live.

Jam:

Yeah. Like, everything about where this is is not supposed to be where I can survive.

Melissa:

Yes. It it is crazy. It is very Yeah. It's amazing and terrifying and beautiful.

Jam:

Like, not even in the animal. It's, like, just the same without his face. It's like yeah. Like, alone, I Can't survive.

Melissa:

Mhmm.

Jam:

I can't just be in octopus. I can't just be under the ocean.

Melissa:

Uh-huh. Like It's crazy.

Jam:

I, like, I don't have anything I need here.

Melissa:

And isn't it amazing also that we developed the science and technology to where we could make ourselves be there?

Jam:

Yeah. It's pretty pretty nuts.

Melissa:

It is pretty nuts. So that's it. That's what I have for you.

Jam:

Awesome thing. That was great. I feel good about myself because there was low risk of me failing hard, and, also, It was like like a fun one to learn.

Melissa:

And now you'll think about it. One thing I do, though, is think about the fact that I should put a lid on the pot to make it boil faster, but I don't really wanna dirty up another dish, and I just won't. Yeah. And I think about that consistently. Yeah.

Melissa:

So

Jam:

And then you can't really see yet if it's boiling. That's the other thing too. Like, if you're doing a few other things, You have to go and take the lid off to do that. So if you're, like, chopping something or whatever, it's like Yeah. Just 1 more thing you have to, like, move.

Melissa:

So it might not really matter a ton for those of you cooking at home, but

Jam:

Yeah.

Melissa:

You at least know you are knowledgeable and can make a decision based on the information that you have whether or not you want the water to boil faster with a lid Or slower without.

Jam:

So you make a conscious decision instead of a hepathered one.

Melissa:

Mhmm.

Jam:

So Melissa and I have a lot of ideas for topics of chemistry of everyday life, but we wanna hear from you. If you've got questions or ideas, you can reach out to us at on Gmail, on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook At chem for your life, that's chem, f o r, your life, to share thoughts and ideas. And if you enjoy this podcast, you can subscribe on your favorite podcast app. If you really like it, you can write a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us to be able to share chemistry with even more people.

Melissa:

This episode of Chemistry For Your Life was created by Melissa Colini and Jan Robinson. Jam Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to a