In The Garden

There are two primary ways to buy bees. One is Nucs (an established colony) and the other is Packages. We will talk them through with our resident honey chaser, Jason in this episode of In The Garden with Keith Ramsey.

Show Notes

Keith: [00:00:00] Keith Ramsey with garden supply company. I've got Jason here today. Jason is our full-time beekeeper who manages the bee department. It helps people out with advice and does all of our pollination and honey chasing that we do up in, up, and down the red.

Jason, now we'll talk about the difference between nukes and packages. What do you think the biggest difference is between nukes and packages? Jason? 

Bee Expert: Timing. Timing is the. The advantage of getting an established colony over a loose assortment of bees, which is what a package of bees 

Keith: are.

And so packages usually come at what timeframe 

Bee Expert: packages are later in the season and are dependent on how the weather gums up through the south because most bees are coming up [00:01:00] from Georgia, and the lady gets them the less time you have to 

Keith: build. So if you get a package, you're not. You're likely not going to see honey that year.

Bee Expert: You be hopeful to build out your colony, fill out all the frames with wax, and have some food stores. You'll be supplementing to get 

Keith: that. I bought packages initially when I got into beekeeping ten years, 10, 15 years ago. And that was the thing I didn't even know about nukes when I got into it.

I knew I knew there were packages available, and I bought packages. But that was probably my biggest thing I learned down the road was that you could put a nuke in, and so our nukes come, what 

Bee Expert: 1st of March into February typically am. 

Keith: When you're in and how much, honey, could you harvest from a nuc?

It 

Bee Expert: is an established colony. So you've already got five full frames of these in different stages of development, a queen that's accepted and a colony that's actively working. So you put that into your hive, and in a few weeks, your calling will be filling out their box the amount of space they have to live in, and you [00:02:00] can start to gear them up to make honey.

So you can expect to get some honey depending on how well the weather and the season are. 

Keith: Sure. And the nuc and the queen, and there are many variables, but. The people look at nucs, and I think sometimes things think they're expensive. Or there's always a question of local nucs over Florida nucs.

I like Florida nucs because they come early. What's your 

Bee Expert: thought in general, I'm looking at bees. If I'm looking for something local, I'm probably looking more regional. So I wouldn't buy bees coming out of the Northwest and Northeast. I'd be looking for bees from the south or Southeast.

Sure. They don't necessarily have to be from the town I'm in, just from the general area that they're going to be forging on the same types of plants and have the same kinds of weather in 

Keith: general to deal with. So you, Florida bees that can handle humidity and heat, will thrive in North Carolina.

They'll do just fine. Excellent. Versus something that's acclimated to cold weather and, 

Bee Expert: general in general, any of the bees you're going to get, be it ones that are from more Northern climate or a Southern climate, they're [00:03:00] probably going to do fine. Anyhow, because bees will still go out and do what bees do forage on flowers.

Sure. It just, and it all depends on your goals as a beekeeper, too. So if you're looking to grow bees or if you're looking to produce honey for the different types of bees, you may. It May make a difference, but healthy bees are what you want in general. 

Keith: a healthy full nuc

It just gets you that quick start in the spring. We've started nucs in the last few years. Better than 60% of them, 70% of them produced honey. And, sometimes we'll begin to a nuc in a, in an eight frame or a ten frame box and let it build-out and then put a honey super on it and harvest honey depending on where we are with established hives.

But the other way you can do it is to build bees and build resources. 

Bee Expert: There'll be as if you're looking to have some pollinators. B's in general. Getting a nuc allows you to have to get them early enough allows you to take advantage of the full spring seat, 

Keith: right?

So you can put them in a hive body, and [00:04:00] then when they fill out, you can go ahead and add another hive body to it. So you have twice as many resources and the ability to split a hive maybe later on. 

Bee Expert: Absolutely. Yep. With the package bees, you're limited in time.

So you're going to get those later into this. Those bees are going to have first to accept the queen. That's been given to them to build out wax so that the queen can start laying eggs and start producing more of the colony and filling up enough of that space to reserve enough resources to get through. 

Keith: the summer and winter.

So then you're feeding, treating, and managing that hive from, say, April 1st or May 1st. All the way around until May 1st again, right before you're going to be able to harvest any honey. 

Bee Expert: Absolutely. So if you're looking at the cost of things and look certainly do are more, slightly more expensive overall, upfront, but overall over the year and trying to make them survive through the following year, you'll probably spend more than.

Providing resources 

Keith: for your package, be sure. So you're at Costco buying 25 pound bags of sugar to feed the bees instead of potentially harvesting honey the first year. [00:05:00] W what about the makeup of a package? As far as the workers, or how a package is, a package is just shaken out of a full-size hive, 

Bee Expert: right?

So the commercial guys are the producers of packaged bees who will go through their bee yards and select a solid colony and shake quantities of bees out of those hives to provide for the packages. So civil have a large box of many pounds of bees and take a scoop out, weigh them out 2, 3, 3, 2, or three pounds each, dump them into another box, and add a queen who's separated from that colony.

Keith: So you could have all forgers and no nurse bees potentially. Not all, probably, but not a good mix of. Absolutely. 

Bee Expert: You're getting a random assortment of bees that are pretty aggressively handled up until the time you put them in your hive. The likelihood of them doing well decreases as.

As all those issues 

Keith: occur to him. Sure. The other thing that I think with packages that people don't factor in is [00:06:00] that bees are something that we, it's a difficult scenario because we guarantee plants and stand behind our work and everything that we do at the garden center.

But these are something that comes with no guarantee. It's these fly. They're an insect. They and I've, we've had years where we installed 20 packages trying to build bees. We had extra packages, and we're going to install them in our own Hobbs. And, some of those packages fly away.

So you, you know, you don't know if it's worth it, you know, and you don't see what you're getting, you know, you, uh, sometimes you get crazy BS. Oh, we're going to build out this analogy. 

Bee Expert: to 

Keith: the end. No, but you could install ten hives and have two of them fly away or have five of them fly away.

So you've, if you have five, five of them fly away, and in one year, it's a 50% increase. Now you're paying 15, 15, $20 more than a nuc would cost. On the flip side, [00:07:00] You could buy a nuc, build out a hive, split it by in the first year, and have two packs. So there's a, there seems like there are so many advantages to buying a nuc. 

And when you think about it, it's okay, it's going to be $195 later in the season, or it's going to be $225 early. It's versus, versus the cost of a package, it's just almost it's it seems like a no brainer to go with the nuke on top of that. Just success rate as well.

Absolutely. It's 99%, with the nuke and a hundred percent, if you're managing it, if something happens to, with the queen and you've got to replace a queen, you've still got a healthy nuke, and you've got resources. The other thing that I wanted to talk about was the availability of nukes.

And when you start a hive, everybody's always started hives in the early spring. It's an April through May timeframe because that's when packages are available, and that's when bees are building up, and they're getting ready to go into the major flow in north Carolina's tool [00:08:00] Poplar.

So they're getting ready to go into the flow. You can build a package of bees in the spring, and you can end up with a healthy hive, but with the new. There's no timeframe, except for late fall, early winter, our, through the winter the rest of the year, you can put a new can.

And 

Bee Expert: packages are only available in the early spring. And that's about it for four packages. They're done. So your opportunity to expand your colonies is done at that point. They can be—pretty much throughout the active season. So up until late, early fall, late summer, which allows you all that extra advantages.

Of trying to expand your colony through the earth, your apiary through the 

Keith: year. And then they're ready once they overwinter. They're ready for the honey nectar flow. So, if you put a colony in September and fed it, make sure that it's treated and cared for. You'll be making honey coming into the spring.

That's correct. Yeah. That pretty much sums it up on nukes and [00:09:00] packages. Both of them are good ways to start a hive. But I think if you've got a little more money to spend, you'll save money by doing a nuc. 

Bee Expert: You will.

Keith: Okay, perfect. We'll stop by and talk to Jason at the store. Follow us on Facebook. Come by and check out. Bond brothers have a hive at a garden supply company. It's part of our host to hive program. If beekeeping's not something that you want to do yourself, sign up for a host to hive program, and you can get involved. You can see hives. You can get into the bond brothers hive at the garden supply company.

And then later on, if something you want to adopt and bring home, 

Bee Expert: you'll get honey from those two. We guaranteed honey from the host-type program. Yeah. 

Keith: So our host, the hive program, was one of the only ones you can get. You get honey out of. So it's a kind of a guaranteed program.

Bee Expert: You're on the lookout for swarms as well. 

Keith: You have swarms. Swarms are now for sure. They're middle of spring. You'll start to see swarms and reach out to the garden center. If you see one, we'll [00:10:00] either come pick it up or get somebody to pick it up. So it's not just it. Save those bees until next time it's Keith Ramsey, Jason at garden supply company.


Creators & Guests

Host
Keith Ramsey
Designer/Owner at Garden Supply Company
Producer
Joe Woolworth
Owner of Podcast Cary in Cary, NC. Your friendly neighborhood podcast studio.

What is In The Garden?

In the Garden with Keith Ramsey is a podcast aimed at helping you grow and maintain a beautiful and healthy garden and landscape.

Each podcast will focus on a new specific topic. Check back every two weeks for the latest episode!

Keith: Keith Ramsey with
garden supply company.

I've got Jason here today.

Jason is our full-time beekeeper
manages, the bee department.

Helps people out with advice and does
all of our pollination and honey chasing

that we do up in, up and down the red.

Jason, now we're going to talk about the
difference between nukes and and packages.

What do you think the biggest difference
is between nukes and packages?

Jason?

Bee Expert: Timing.

Timing is the.

The advantage of getting an established
colony over a loose assortment of

bees, which is what a package of bees

Keith: are.

And so packages usually
come at what timeframe

Bee Expert: packages are later in
the season and are dependent on

how the weather gums up through
the south, because most bees are

coming up from Georgia and the lady
get them the less time you have to

Keith: build.

So if you get a package,
you're not, you're likely not

going to see honey that year.

Bee Expert: You be hopeful to
build out your colony, to fill

out all the frames with wax and
have some food stores in them.

You'll definitely be supplementing to get

Keith: that.

I bought packages initially
when I got into beekeeping

10 years, 10, 15 years ago.

And that was the thing I didn't even
know about nukes when I got into it.

I knew I knew there was packages
available and I bought packages.

But that was probably my biggest thing I
learned down the road was that, you can

put a nuke in and so our nukes come, what

Bee Expert: 1st of March
into February typically am.

Keith: And when you're in and how much,
honey, could you harvest from a nuc?

It

Bee Expert: is an established colony.

So you've already got five full
frames of these in different stages of

development, a queen that's accepted
and a colony that's actively working.

So you put that into your hive and in
a few weeks your calling is going to

be filling out their box the amount of
space that they have to live in and you

can start to gear them up to make honey.

So you can expect to get some
honey depending on how well

the weather and the season is.

Keith: Sure.

And the nuc and the queen, and
there's lots of variables, but.

The people look at nucs, I think sometimes
and things think they're expensive.

Or there's always a question of
local nucs over Florida nucs.

I like Florida nucs
because they come early.

What's your

Bee Expert: thought in
general, I'm looking at bees.

If I'm looking for something local,
I'm probably looking more regional.

So I wouldn't buy bees that
are coming out of the Northwest

and Northeast necessarily.

I'd be looking for bees
from the south or Southeast.

Sure.

They don't necessarily have to be
from the town I'm in just from the

general area that they're going to be
forging on the same types of plants

and have the same types of weather in

Keith: general to deal with.

So you, so Florida bees that
can handle humidity and heat are

going to thrive in North Carolina.

They'll do just fine.

Excellent.

Versus something that's
acclimated to cold weather and,

Bee Expert: general in general, any
of the bees you're going to get be

it ones that are from more Northern
climate or from a Southern climate,

they're probably gonna do fine.

Anyhow, because bees are going to still go
out and do what bees do forage on flowers.

Sure.

It just, and it all depends on somewhat
of what your goals are as a beekeeper too.

So if you're looking to just grow bees
or if you're looking to produce honey

the different types of bees, you may.

May make a difference, but in general
healthy bees are what you want

Keith: a healthy full nuc

it just gets you that
quick start in the spring.

We've started we've started
nucs in the last few years.

Better than 60% of them,
70% of them produced honey.

And, sometimes we'll start a nuc in a, in
an eight frame or a 10 frame box and let

it build out and then put a honey super
on it and actually harvest honey depending

on where we are with established hives.

But the other way you can do it is
just build bees and build resources.

Bee Expert: There'll be as if
you're looking to just have

some pollinators and just.

B's in general.

Getting a nuc allows you to have getting
them early enough allows you to take

advantage of the full spring seat,

Keith: right?

So you can put them in a hive body,
and then when they fill out, you can go

ahead and add another hive body to it.

So you have twice as many
resources and the ability to

maybe split a hive later on.

Bee Expert: Absolutely.

Yep.

With the package bees
you're limited in time.

So you're going to get
those later into this.

Those bees are going to have
to first accept the queen.

That's been given to them build out wax so
that the queen can start laying eggs and

start to produce more of the colony and
fill up enough of that space so they can

reserve enough resources to get through

Keith: the summer and winter.

So then you're feeding, you're
treating, and you're managing that

hive from say April 1st or May 1st.

All the way around until , May 1st
again, right before you're going

to be able to harvest any honey.

Bee Expert: Absolutely.

So if you're looking at the cost
of things and look certainly do are

more, slightly more expensive overall,
upfront, but overall over the course

of the year and trying to make them
survive through the following year,

you'll probably spend more than.

Providing resources

Keith: for your package, be sure.

So you're at Costco buying 25
pound bags of sugar to feed

the bees instead of potentially
harvesting honey the first year.

W what about the makeup of a package?

As far as the workers, or how a
package is, a package is just shaken

out of out of a full-size hive,

Bee Expert: right?

So the commercial guys are the producers
of packaged bees will go through

their bee yards and select a strong
colonies and just shake quantities of

bees out of those hives to provide.

For the packages.

So civil have a large box of many pounds
of bees and take a scoop out, weigh them

out 2, 3, 3, 2, or three pounds each,
dump them into a nother box and then add

a queen who's separated from that colony.

Keith: So you could have all forgers
and no nurse bees potentially.

Not all probably, but not a good mix of.

Absolutely.

Bee Expert: You're getting a random
assortment of bees that are pretty

aggressively handled up until the time
you put them in your hive, the likelihood

of them doing well decreases as.

As all those issues

Keith: occur to him.

Sure.

The other thing that I think with packages
that people don't factor in is that, bees

are something that we, it's a difficult
scenario because we guarantee plants and

we stand behind our work and, everything
that we do at the garden center.

But these are something
that come with no guarantee.

It's these fly, they're an insect.

They and I've, we've had
years where we installed 20

packages trying to build bees.

We had extra packages and we're going
to install them in our own Hobbs.

And, some of those packages just fly away.

So you, you know, you don't know if
it's worth it, you know, and you don't

know what you're getting, you know,
you, uh, sometimes you get crazy BS.

Oh, we're going to build out this analogy

Bee Expert: to

Keith: the end.

, no, but you could install 10
hives and have two of them fly

away or have five of them fly away.

So you've just, if you have
five, five of them fly away and

in one year it's a 50% increase.

Now you're paying, 15, 15, $20
more than what a nuc would cost.

In in, in the flip side, You could buy
a nuc, build out a hive and split it by

in the first year and have two hives.

So there's a, there just
seems like there's so many

advantages to to buying a nuc

and when you think about it, it's okay,
it's going to be $195, later in the

season or it's going to be $225 early.

It's versus, versus the cost of
a package, it's just almost it's

it seems like a no brainer to
go with the nuke on top of that.

Just success rate as well.

Absolutely.

It's 99%, with the nuke and a hundred
percent, if you're really managing it,

if something happens to, with the queen
and you've got to replace a queen,

you've still got you've still got a
healthy nuke and you've got resources.

The other thing that I'll,
that I wanted to talk about

was the availability of nukes.

And when you start a hive
everybody's always started

hives at, in the early spring.

It's an April through may timeframe
because that's when packages are

available and that's when bees are
building up and they're getting ready

to go into the, to the the major
flow in north Carolina's tool Poplar.

So they're getting ready
to go into the flow.

You can build a package of bees in
the spring and you can actually end up

with a healthy hive, but with the new.

There's really no timeframe, may get,
except for, late fall, early winter,

our, through the winter the rest
of the year, you can put a new can.

And

Bee Expert: packages are only
available in the early spring.

And that's about it for four packages.

They're done.

So your opportunity to expand
your contemplate your colonies

is done at that point.

They can be.

Pretty much throughout the active season.

So up until late, early fall,
late summer which allows you

all that extra advantages.

Of trying to expand your colony through
the earth, your apiary through the

Keith: year.

And then they're ready once
they overwinter, they're ready

for the honey nectar flow.

So you can make, basically if you
put a colony in September and fed

it make sure that it's treated and
it's cared for you'll be making

honey coming into the spring.

That's correct.

Yeah.

I think that, that pretty much sums
it up on, on nukes and packages.

Both of them are definitely
good ways to start a hive.

But I think if you've got a little
bit more money to spend, you'll

end up saving money by doing a nuc.

Bee Expert: Absolutely you will.

Keith: Okay, perfect.

We'll stop by and talk
to Jason at the store.

Follow us on Facebook.

Come by and check out.

Bond brothers has a hive
at garden supply company.

It's part of our host to hive program.

If beekeeping's not something that you
want to do yourself sign up for a host to

hive program and you can get involved, you
can see hives, you can get into the bond

brothers hive at garden supply company.

And then later on, if something
you want to adopt and bring home,

Bee Expert: you'll get honey
from those two, we guaranteed

honey from the host type program.

Yeah.

Keith: So our host, the hive
program was one of the only

ones that you actually can get.

You definitely get honey out of.

So it's a kind of a guaranteed program.

Bee Expert: You're on the
lookout for swarms as well.

Keith: You have swarms
swarms are now for sure.

They're middle of spring.

You'll start to see swarms and
reach out to the garden center.

If you see one and we'll either come
pick it up or get somebody to pick it up.

So it's not just it, save those bees
until next time it's Keith Ramsey,

Jason at garden supply company.