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Now or Never: Long-Term Care Strategy is a podcast for all those seeking answers and solutions in the long-term care space. Too often we don’t fully understand the necessity of care until it’s too late. This podcast is designed to create solutions, start conversations and bring awareness to the industry that will inevitably impact all Americans.
Christopher Small: This is where
people get in trouble. It's
important, but it's not urgent,
right? No one thinks they're
gonna die. No one thinks they're
going to be involved in an
accident or whatever. And you
have these things in life that
come at you. Kids gotta go to
baseball games. You know, you
got this big work presentation
coming up, looks like all these
different things that allow you
to push off this process, but
it's like going to the gym or
eating right? I mean, you got to
just make good choices now
because you'd never know.
Caroline Moore: Welcome to Now
or Never Long-Term Care Strategy
making. themselves. with Kosta
Yepifantsev a podcast for all
those seeking answers and
solutions in the long term care
space. This podcast is designed
to create resources, start
conversations and bring
awareness to the industry that
will inevitably impact all
Americans. Here's your host
Kosta Yepifantsev.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Hey, y'all,
this is Kosta and today, I'm
here with my guest, Christopher
Small estate planning and
probate attorney, educator,
coach and founder of CMS law
firm. Throughout his career,
Christopher has helped 1000s of
clients and followers reshape
their perspective on legacy
planning, probate, estate
management, and how to protect
your family through generational
wealth. Today, we're talking
about what no one told you about
estate planning. So Chris,
before we get started, I want to
talk about your podcast, the
unconventional attorney, and how
this mission has shaped your
approach on estate planning and
law overall.
Christopher Small: Yeah, so the
unconventional attorney, podcast
brand, though think it's kind of
a long story I create that was
all born out of me really just
wanting to kind of document my
journey of starting and building
a law firm. Okay, it's like what
it was really around. I didn't
think anybody was doing a very
good job of, of sort of teaching
that, like how to, what do you
actually do when I started? They
the advice was to get a stack of
business cards, and do really
good work. And the business will
call. I was like, well, it does
seem there. I think there's more
to it than that. Yeah. And so I
just started talking about what
you know, what I was, what I was
doing, and when what was working
and was not working. And the
reason it's called the
unconventional attorney is
because a lot of the the, my
approach, if you couldn't tell
already, you will be able to
tell by the time we're done
talking about this is a little
unconventional, I'm a little
less, much less formal, probably
the most attorneys, I really
take an approach, in general of
let's try to solve the client's
problem, let's try to get them
where they really need to go.
Sure. And not go crazy, just for
the sake of making myself a
little bit of extra money. And
so I think that, that that's
where that goes. And part of
that honestly, the reason I do
the unconventional attorney
stuff is we know when it when we
talk about legacy, I, I create a
lot of content. Part of the
reason I do that is I want my
kids or my grandkids or
whatever, to be able to see that
some day and be like, there's
Grandpa, you know, when he's
just a he was a kid or whatever.
And, and that's why that also
allows me to talk about things
that are less sort of legal,
right? You know, with my estate
planning podcast and stuff I'm
really talking about how do you
make a trust and this kind of
stuff? The unbundled attorney
one is our day to day or, or,
you know, like I'm having
troubles with this thing. It's
more just more personal, really,
than then the the law stuff. So
that's where all that came from.
Kosta Yepifantsev: before.
Before we get started. Did you
always want to be an attorney
growing up?
Christopher Small: No,
definitely not. I was a
psychology major in undergrad, I
took stats, and I was terrible
at it. I knew I did not want to
go to grad school for
psychology, because they was
just going to be more stats
basically. Right? My best friend
was going to be an attorney. I
thought attorneys were cool. You
know, and you can make a lot of
money. So I thought, sure. I'll
throw you out there. It's not
always a lot of money out there.
And, and so I just decided that,
you know, that's I was gonna do
i It does suit me. Well, I love
to read, you know, I love to
solve problems. So, but I did
not know until maybe my junior
year of college is when I
decided I was gonna go to law
school. So you
Kosta Yepifantsev: like to solve
problems and one of the biggest
problems that a lot of people
face is planning for retirement.
And so you specialize in estate
planning. So in my experience,
the worst thing that you can do
in retirement planning and care
planning, or even in financial
planning is wait until you
actually need the services. So
walk us through the fundamentals
of estate planning and why it's
so important.
Christopher Small: Yeah, so
estate planning is important for
a couple of reasons. Reason
number one is it protects you,
in case something happens to
you, or he's number two is it
protects your family in case
something happens to you raise
number three is really, it
allows you to make decisions
related to both of those things.
And if you don't, then somebody
else is going to make decisions.
And it's usually not people that
you want making the decisions.
And the people that are chosen
and put into places are
typically not the people that
you that you want. You know, I
always say it, I'll go, I'll go,
I'll give a quick overview. But
what I usually say is, most
people have that person in their
family that looks normal on the
outside, but that you would
never let like babysit your
kids. Sure, this is why you have
estate planning, because you can
really eliminate them from
potentially being in charge of
you or your assets. Right. So
very generally, I was estate
planning covers June, two
circumstances, right. Number one
is if you are alive, but
incapacitated, this is where
your personal sort of planning
comes into play a power of
attorney, who can manage who can
sort of be in charge of your
stuff, pay your bills, manage
your finances, just do whatever
needs to be done. They have a
fiduciary duty to, to act on
your behalf in in your best
interests. So it's not just
carte blanche, they can do
whatever they want. But if you
don't have that person, you have
to go to court, and you have to
get someone sort of appointed to
that position. And in the time
between when something happens
to you, and when that
appointment happens, can be a
significant amount of time and
your family can be without
assets, right? Yeah, I've had
people call me and say My
husband was in a car accident.
We have separate bank accounts.
I need to get into his I need
some money. What am I supposed
to do? And I have to tell them?
It's gonna be tricky,
Kosta Yepifantsev: right? Is
that the probate thing that you
were talking about earlier?
Before we got started? Or how
does probate work then?
Christopher Small: Yeah, so
probate super high level is the
process of transferring your
assets to someone else after you
die.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Okay, so
that's different than what we're
discussing with somebody being
alive and incapacitated.
Christopher Small: That's right.
What we're talking about right
now is is so yeah, so power of
attorney, medical power of
attorney, they cover you while
you are alive. Okay. So when you
die, those two things, they go
away, right, and then the will
or trust, if you have something
like that, that steps in, just
sort of provide authority to
who's in charge of sort of
acting on on behalf of your
state after you're gone.
Kosta Yepifantsev: But as you're
doing this estate planning,
you're talking about who's going
to be the medical power of
attorney who's going to be the
financial power of attorney,
right. Like those are key. Those
are key facets in every single
estate planning role.
Christopher Small: If you have
if you have kids that are under
18, we ought to talk about minor
power of attorney and minor
medical power of attorney, you
know, if you're if you're
married, or if you're if you're
you and your partner, both
parents are in a car accident,
who's in charge, right? You can
sign a field trip slip, who can
take him to the dentist to Kin,
to just allowed to watch them,
you know, you don't think about
these things. And and if you
don't have the right paperwork,
again, it just causes a bunch of
problems. And these things are
easy to put together.
Kosta Yepifantsev: We're about
to talk about a pretty alarming
statistic. But I am curious,
before we start on it. Do you
know about in terms of Americans
like the percentage of Americans
that actually have a will trust
state planning?
Christopher Small: I haven't
looked at it recently. I think
it's under 50%, though, I would
Yeah. I would say it's because
people think oh, I need to have
a lot of assets to do I need to
do anything. They don't
understand the power of attorney
and the medical power of
attorney. They are probably
they're very form driven for the
most part. It's not as if you're
creating like bespoke powers of
attorney for for most people.
Sure. But man, they are
important. And they really can
do a lot for you if you have
them and leave you hanging out
to dry if you don't, so people
don't think about that side of
things.
Kosta Yepifantsev: How expensive
is it to go through in the
range, of course, but how
expensive is it to go through
this estate planning process for
typical Americans?
Christopher Small: Yeah, it
depends. It kind of depends on
where you are. Right? It also
depends on who you hire. My I do
flat fees for my stuff. I don't
charge by the hour. If you're
using an estate planning
attorney and they're charging
you by the hour, I will go look
for somebody else. Because you
know, the value that you get
from using an estate planning
attorney isn't just making sure
that you're doing the right
thing being able to ask
questions, being able to have
them tell you, I know you want
to do this thing, but there may
be some unintended consequences
over here, versus it took me six
hours to draft your will, you
know. So what we do is we do
flat fees, you want to do a
foundational plan, which has
power of attorney medical power
of attorney health care
directive. Will disposition
instructions or like burial
instructions. Yeah, if you are
single, it's like 1500 bucks. If
you're married, it's like 2000
bucks. Nice. If you want to add
a trust on, it's just an extra
1000 bucks. And then we have an
estate tax here in Washington
State. So if you want to do a
credit shelter Trust, which is
sort of a, I don't know, more
complex revocable trust, it's
extra 1000. On top of that. So
Kosta Yepifantsev: if I'm not
mistaken, I know that you don't
specialize in elder law and not
familiar with like long term
care aspects. But e revocable
trusts are the vehicles that a
lot of attorneys, estate
planning attorneys elder law
attorneys use to be able to
access the Medicaid market when
while also protecting their
assets. So here's this crazy
statistic that I was reading in
your bio, and I needed to share
it with everybody that's
listening, you mentioned that
85% of all inheritances are
spent within 18 months. How can
estate planning help protect
future generations from their
own financial decisions?
Christopher Small: Yeah, so with
this would come mostly through
trust planning, right. So two of
the limitations of just having a
will, or that that typically you
have to go through probate,
unless you utilize beneficiary
designations and things like
that. And you you have no long
term control and management
oversight of the assets. It's a
direct distribution vehicle. So
if if I want to give you $1,000,
When I die, you just get a
check. You do whatever you want
it No, no oversight, or
revocable trust, though, can
give you that oversight can help
people make correct or sound or
decisions. What we do this
mostly comes into play with
younger families, you know, so
like I have, for example, I have
a trust, I have three kids, I
have a trust for my kids.
They're all under their 10. And
under, I'd says basically some
admins to me, there's going to
be a trustee in place, which is
like a manager of the assets for
the kids. And until they turned
25, the distributions out of
that trust can only be made for
health support, education,
maintenance, at the discretion
of the trustee. The example I
always use is, you know, let's
say one of my kids goes to
college say, hey, trustee, I'm
going to college. Obviously,
that gets paid for right?
Education, right? Hey, trustee,
I'm going to college, I need a
car, I want a Ferrari, you can
have a jeep. Right? So you,
right, so you sort of build
these things? Yeah. Right. They
can be tricky when it comes. You
can sort of, I'm not a big
proponent of trying to have a
like an iron fist over assets, I
think people are going to just
do what they're going to do at
the end of the day, I'm more a
proponent of try to raise your
your kids or your whoever you
are, whoever you're giving your
things to, with sound
fundamental principles, teach
them how to use this money. I
think where it happens most
often, often is no one talks
about money at all. And then the
kids just get a bunch of money
just laid in their lap versus
come to the financial planners
meetings with me, or, you know,
this is how we use this money
here. This is, you know, just so
a lot more help in teaching your
kids what you what, why you do
what you do, and how you do it,
then putting restrictions via
trust on how the money can be
spent?
Kosta Yepifantsev: Well, and
also, you know, when you're
older and age, and you've got
adult children, I think, you
know, people sometimes don't
think that they may need a trust
because their kids are safe and
sound, you know, in their, in
their older years, full time
jobs, have their own families,
what have you. But I think that
the same exact thing that you're
describing for young children
can also apply for older kids as
well, like make, have them be a
part of the process. And also,
you know, just because you have
bad habits when you're 18 years
old, doesn't mean that those bad
habits aren't transferable to
when you're 45. Right.
Christopher Small: For sure.
Yeah, you can the the You're
right. When it comes to to how
restrictive you want to be. It's
really personal preference. What
i i Don't try to I try not to
impose my own personal beliefs
on what people want to do. I
always tell people look, it's
not my family. It's not my
money. You know, if you ask me,
I will give you some ideas. When
you tell me what you want to do,
though, you know, some people
don't care, they don't care,
they just want the money to go,
that's fine. I've told them
perfect, but I can do that for
you. Some people want to know,
hey, we want this to last for a
long time, I say, okay, I can
tell you how to do that as well.
So that's kind of how I operate.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Let's talk
about the concept of legacy. How
do you help families and
business owners incorporate
their values and traditions into
the estate planning process?
Christopher Small: So I probably
do it less, then. I would like
the the hard part is, everybody
says that they want to do that,
until it's time to do that.
Sure. Right. You know, so it's
like, if, again, if you really
want to have a legacy, if you
want to build legacy, you have
to incorporate traditions in
into your family, you need to
teach them about money, like you
are not going to be able to
create legacy, you know,
quotation marks, but the gist of
it the trust, like, you know,
like you look at these dynastic
families, like the Kennedys, you
know, things like that. If you
read their biographies, like
they were brought up a very
specific way from birth, all the
way through, and those
traditions and that family
philosophy and those values,
they were ingrained, and they
continue to build today, right?
Do you have a,
Kosta Yepifantsev: an Bordeaux?
Yeah. But and so what you're
saying is, is you can't just use
estate planning or build or, you
know, putting details into a
trust to be the only way to
build like fundamental trend
traditions, and also to set the
expectations of what you want
your children to do as if you're
not there anymore. Right. So it
has to happen more internally
within the family, not
necessarily in the state
planning process.
Christopher Small: Yeah, where I
like to use it. What I like to
use estate planning for is like,
Look, you with this trust, when
you're gone, the assets in the
trust will have high asset
protection, right, there'll be
protected from divorce from
bankruptcy from, you know, bad
choices. Sure. That's really
what for in my mind estate
planning is for the education,
how those assets are used, and
it really has to come outside of
the plan for to be effective.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Let's talk
about technology. How is
technology AI and programs like
chat GPT, changing the landscape
of estate planning? And can the
everyday American utilize these
resources to help solidify their
end of life wishes?
Christopher Small: So I think
it's too early to tell right
now. I think event, the problem,
because I've experimented with
this. And I've and I've tested
it out right now, for live chat
GPT. To give you answers, do you
have to prompt them? Right? So
the biggest limitation is if you
don't put the right information
in or if you don't ask the right
question, you're not going to
get the right answer. Right. So
it that's the biggest limitation
there. There is already software
though, there's already places
that you can go where you can
just answer a specific set of
questions, and it will spit out
something for you like that
already exists and has existed
for a long time. It's not even
AI driven, right? It's just a
decision tree, basically. Yeah.
So it will, I think when it
comes to estate planning, it
will probably be a little less.
Invasive is the word that comes
to mind. But it's not the right
word. Disruptive, maybe contract
review, for sure, right? Things
like that, where you're going to
have the same probably bespoke
language coming in every time.
That's where it's going to make
a difference. There still is
this element, though of family
values in emotions that are kind
of I think hard to get into a
prompt.
Kosta Yepifantsev: So you don't
think that the necessity for
white collar jobs like an
attorney, is something that may
be considered a thing of the
past when you have these type of
chat bots that can interact on a
much more significant level.
Christopher Small: I think
eventually, that will it will
Okay, I just think it's a ways
away right? I say because you're
there will be come a time where
you can use it will because
here's the thing, you have to
know what to put in to get out
right so for it to be able to
say Look, I need all in here's I
need all of your financial
information. Sure. I need to
know about your family. Yeah.
And but not just about oh, not
just you have two kids. it you
need to know that Suzy is bad at
money, you know that Rick has a
little coke problem that he's
dealing with from time to time.
So the without that information,
right, what what the AI spits
out at you is going to be
incomplete.
Kosta Yepifantsev: I see when
you say that it may be in the
future, I think when everything
is more interconnected, and
there's these medians, that that
AI can pull from to make those
types of determinations, then
you can actually ask them a
question, then they'll have
every single social media
profile and, you know, pretty
much the entire internet
consolidated around one person
who's been using the internet,
since they were, you know, three
years old, essentially. And they
can actually make a more a more
educated decision.
Christopher Small: Yeah, I think
there will come a time to where
we're able be able to ask you
questions. Oh, no, like, were
you? Were you alone? You give it
incomplete information? It says,
Have you considered this? Or do
you? Are you worried about this?
And based on how you answer, it
will ask for the prompts,
potentially. So it will happen
eventually, I'm sure it will
happen eventually. But for now,
I think we're safe. Yeah.
Kosta Yepifantsev: So let's say
that somebody did not go through
the estate planning process,
they don't have a will, they
don't have a trust. They've and
they've got, you know, they've
got some kids, they're in their
late 50s, they have a heart
attack. So what happens if
someone dies without a will or
trust in place, and what are the
potential consequences for their
loved ones.
Christopher Small: So, I mean,
so contrary to popular belief,
or what a lot of people think
that your assets do not go to
the state, if you die without a
will, okay, they will go to your
family members, the limitation
is you don't get to pick where
they go, I say in each state is
a little bit different on how
those assets are, are
transferred, or where they go.
Washington state, for example,
if you have if you are married,
and you have kids, if you have
separate property, so property
brought into the marriage, half
of it goes to the kids, half
goes to the spouse, all the
community property. So whatever
you've accumulated during
marriage goes to the spouse, if
you don't have a spouse, and you
have kids, everything goes to
the kids. The limitations are
though that that you often don't
get to choose how those things
are distributed, you often don't
get any if you have minors, in
particular, you you don't
necessarily get to choose how
those assets are invested,
sometimes they will cash
everything out, which is not
always the best idea, right? You
just don't have the control that
you want, you don't get to pick
who's in charge of managing the
process. You know, you don't get
to an often things can get lost
in the shuffle. Sure, you know.
So what you really lose is just
the ability to control where you
want everything to go.
Kosta Yepifantsev: I see what
are the most common mistakes
that people make when it comes
to estate planning? And how can
it be avoided?
Christopher Small: Wow, I mean,
there's a bunch of different. I
don't know that they're common
mistakes, necessarily. There are
just a bunch of little tiny
things that people don't do.
Most of it is they think that
the rules are one way when
they're not. Right, okay, or
they're trying to do something.
And the way that they're trying
to do it just doesn't work out
the way that they want it to
work, okay, for the solution
really, is to work with someone
that can talk to you about what
to do help you through it.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Are there
any, like significant errors
that people make, or like
something that you constantly
see happen over and over again,
in terms of people are expecting
x, but they really can't get x?
So they have to settle for why
Christopher Small: the things
that I see are when Pete they're
the so there are two big
problems that I see. Okay,
number one is people do an
estate plan on their own, but
they don't execute the documents
correctly. Right. Okay. So then
it doesn't work. For example,
I've had some people come they
have failed, like, let's say
that dad died, okay. He had four
biological kids and he have four
stepkids. He wanted everything
to get split equally amongst all
eight kids, but he didn't
execute as well properly. So all
the step kids are out. Right?
Because they're not
Kosta Yepifantsev: when you say
execute the will do you mean
like filing the will with the
state just signing
Christopher Small: it properly,
having a witness properly, okay?
Like, people just make mistakes.
They don't know what the
requirements are. They're not
super hard to figure out, but
they just don't know. You know.
Kosta Yepifantsev: So, what
you're saying is if you don't
work with an attorney, you can
still write your own will and
get it notarized and and
obviously sign with a witness
present. And that will act as a
will. Or you if you don't do you
have to file it with the state
or anything like that.
Christopher Small: It depends on
the state that you're in. I
think in Washington State, you
don't have to file the will
until the person has died
Kosta Yepifantsev: wild. And I
mean, it just seems really
risky. It kind of does.
Christopher Small: The, you
know, there's do it yourselfers,
though, in everything, right?
There's, there's just a spectrum
of people in all places, some
people want to fix their own
cars, and that's fine. Somebody
want to make their own wills?
That's fine. You just, yeah. It
just, you know, you're, you're,
it's a risk assessment, right?
Are you? Are you okay with doing
on your own? Some people are,
and that's okay. You know, but
they, but the other thing that
happens too, is when it comes to
trust planning, a lot of times
people think like, oh, I don't
want to do a distribution until
someone goes to college, for
example, you're like, Well,
anybody can go to college, and
just party their way through it
and get Ds. And so sometimes
it's like, you know, think about
what you really want them to do
the money as a motivator is
often not the best way to
approach that.
Kosta Yepifantsev: So we always
like to end the show with a call
to action. For our listeners,
who are just starting to think
about estate planning, what are
some actionable steps they can
take right now to begin the
process?
Christopher Small: Okay, so this
is a, this is, it's gonna sound
self serving, but it's actually
not, because if you're not in
Washington State, I can't help
you because I'm not licensed
anywhere else. I have a YouTube
channel. So if you go to YouTube
and search CMS law firm, my
youtube channel will come up, I
have hundreds and hundreds of
videos that are that are up
there. Some of them are super
short, only a minute long, most,
the longer ones are only like
five or six minutes long. But I
sort of cherry pick almost
everything that you could ever
think about when it comes to
estate planning. i Oh, I sort of
go What the what, through what
the process looks like what
these different documents do,
that would probably be a good
place to start to sort of take
away a little bit of the
scariness of the process, give
you some background and give you
an idea of what you want to do.
And then I would call someone
and get on the on the calendar,
right? The downside real glass
thing? The downside to estate
planning, this is where people
get in trouble. It's important,
but it's not urgent, right? No
one thinks they're gonna die. No
one thinks they're going to be
involved in an accident or
whatever, you know, in you have
these things in life that come
at you. Kids gotta go to
baseball games, you know, you
got this big work presentation
coming up. Like it's like all
these different things that
allow you to push off this
process, but it's like, going to
the gym, or eating right. I
mean, you got to just make good
choices now because you'd never
know.
Caroline Moore: Thank you for
joining us on this episode of
Now or Never Long-Term Care
Strategy with Kosta
Yepifantsev.If you enjoyed
listening and you wanna hear
more make sure you subscribe on
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leave us a review or better yet
share this episode with a
friend. Now or Never Long-Term
Care Strategy is a Kosta
Yepifantsev production.Today’s
episode was written and produced
by Morgan Franklin.Want to find
out more about Kosta? Visit us
at kostayepifantsev.com